Writers write. Get inspired to write by some of today’s best writers. Listen. Learn. Just keep writing.
ASDF JKL;
Writers write. Get inspired to write by some of today’s best writers. Listen. Learn. Just keep writing.
ASDF JKL;
Mitch's new book: 40 Questions About Typology and Allegory on Amazon.
And The Gospel is for Christians is available too.
And Mitch's expository commentary on Daniel with Crossway.
Book: Deep Discipleship: How the Church Can Make Whole Disciples of Jesus by J.T. English
Podcast: Knowing Faith
Ministry Cohort: Training the Church
Good News! Home Row Merch is here. Get the limited-edition, first-ever Home Row mug today. Orders up for two weeks. $15 + s&h.
Tony Reinke joins the show again to talk about writing, the uniqueness of his latest book, Competing Spectacles, and we talk BlogFathers and PodFathers.
Complete Manuscript from the show:
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Jeff: All right, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of home row. And on today's show, I finally have Patrick Shriner joining us. Patrick, how are you man?
Patrick: Good. Thanks for having me. It's been awhile.
Jeff: been awhile. We were supposed to record. Oh, good grief. I dunno. Maybe it's gotta be close to two years ago.
Patrick: I think it's like 15 years ago when we were both toddlers.
Jeff: We were, we were both in middle school. How old are you? Oh, me too. 35 when's your birthday?
Patrick: August 26
Jeff: Ooh, you're older. October 23rd
Patrick: your blood type?
Jeff: I have no clue.
Patrick: Either door.
Jeff: must be our generation thing. People are like, I bet my parents and your parents, they know their blood type.
Patrick: That's right. That's right.
Jeff: Like what do I need to know that for? They just tested at the place, whatever that place is.
And they'll tell me what it is, what I need.
Patrick: So we would have been 2015 years ago. There we go.
Jeff: It's when we were 20 we were gonna do it. And where were you when you were 20. Were you at Louisville? Were you in Southern? Where were you?
Patrick: I was in Louisville at that point. I'm trying to exactly what I was doing at that point, but I guess maybe Western Kentucky university.
Jeff: Okay. All right. Nice. Where would I have been? I would have been here in Houston, still at the college of biblical studies, inner city Bible college. And it was a blast. very dispensational, which I learned while I was there. And yeah, so a lot of things have changed in my life.
A lot of things have changed in yours, but the reason we were going to record, I think it was about two years ago, we were scheduled to record and it all fell apart cause I stopped at Starbucks. 30 minutes before we were going to record, to go pick up, you know, just to, it was probably a salted caramel mocha or who knows when those are in season. I got to get them. And so I go and I see a guy there and he's wearing a black shirt and, and big bright neon green. It just says, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, three times. And I've seen this guy walking around my town. All the time carrying a huge backpack. I'm like, Oh, that's the Jesus shirt guy. And he's got his Bible open and I say, "Hey man, what are you reading?"
And he's telling me what he's reading and everything. And then he starts asking me, "He says, do you have a job? "And I said, yeah, I do. He goes, "Do you make money?" I said, yeah, man, I totally, I, of course, I make money. He goes, "You're sinning." As go, excuse me. He says it is jobbing, like, what are you, it's jobbing.
He's like, yep, you're jobbing. And that's a sin. And he started confronting me about how I am not obeying Jesus because I have not sold everything I have and given it to the poor.
Patrick: Wow. You like to do a podcast where I don't make any money, so you know, I could do that.
Jeff: Yeah, that's true. I'm, I'm, I'm there and I couldn't believe it. And so I think this ended up being like an hour or two hour. Then his, a friend of his came in that, so these guys have decided to be homeless together. Then they're not together, but they eat, they've each decided to be homeless. They've sold other stuff, left their parents behind.
One of them has a, girlfriend that he got pregnant and have a kid. He left them all because Jesus said, if you love me, you've got to hate father, mother, brother, sister, and sell all that you have and give to the poor. And so these guys have chosen to be homeless and think they're following the true Jesus way.
So that was why we couldn't record.
Patrick: I just remember sitting on the other end. We had like, I must've gotten the wrong time.
Jeff: Well, no, that that was today. That was me today where I messaged you, said, Hey man, I'm on Skype. Oh wait, I'm an idiot. Pacific is two hours behind.
Patrick: Being in the Pacific Northwest, I've always doing math with people though, and many times I do it the opposite way. I, I've canceled many meetings that I don't have to cause I'm like, yeah, I gotta do this other call. And then I'm like, Oh, it's two hours. The other way I always forget though.
Jeff: I told my wife, I was like, Oh, I gotta do this podcast right now. Sorry, I can't. I'm like, Oh wait, nevermind. It's an hour. What do you need? I, I've, I get East and West coast confused. It's just crazy. but, and I don't even know what day it is. This is, this is the life in quarantine.
Patrick: It could be Sunday,
Jeff: Hey, it could be, yeah, it could be.
I'd be in my pajamas still watching the quote live.
Patrick: watching your
Jeff: Yeah. Watching my live
Patrick: You do, you watch your sermon.
Jeff: define, watch.
Patrick: Do you sit down with your family and the service? Yeah.
Jeff: do. Yeah. Yeah. I, I don't look at myself. I listened to myself. it's very inception to be watching. Be watching myself and I feel I got to participate. You know, my kids are watching.
Patrick: Oh, for sure.
Jeff: you know, I got them. But yeah, it's brutal. I hate watching myself preach the first week of doing that. I realize, okay, there are a lot of hand motions I don't want to do anymore.
Patrick: That's all right. That's why I don't read my writing, you know? We were going to get to that. I
Jeff: Yeah. Well, yeah. Why are we?
Why? we here? Why are we on Skype? What are we here for? Yeah, man. So here we're here to talk about writing and you have written all kinds of stuff, and you, you sent out a tweet. I mean, you've got books, you, of course, you've got journal articles and blogs and all kinds of stuff that you do.
And, but you put out a tweet the other day about how you have stayed, so productive or trying to stay productive during the pandemic, but before, but before we get into that, let's talk about how you became a writer. How did that happen?
Patrick: Yeah, I mean, my parents, I grew up and they read to me all the time. So we were a family that loved books. I remember my dad reading Lord of the rings, the Hobbit, Greek mythology, Chronicles of Narnia. I mean, you know, all the classics for any homeschool Christian kid. we did some public school homeschool and Christian school, but so we just really liked literature.
And. So growing up reading, if you, you keep reading. And I, in college I kept doing literature, American lit, British lit, and I just really liked the side of writing that that could be, cause I'm terrible at math and you know, you just kinda gravitate that way. but I really felt like it was in college when I started taking some writing classes, I was getting encouragement that I just realize, I just really love to write, and I ended up majoring actually in journalism at Western Kentucky university. It's a, it's a great program for journalism, and so I ended up doing that just because I thought it was a little more practical. Halfway through. College, I realized I wanted to go towards ministry, but I do remember, just some like creative writing and things that I do that I really enjoyed.
So I think it started very early on just being interested in reading, and reading good books and being interested in literature. I mean, I go through classics as much as I can. That's kind of fallen off just at this point in my life, but I still try to do audible books as much as I can. And so, yeah, I think the love of reading and then that just translates many times into writing.
I find, at least in the current stage of my life, I mean in terms of even a calling, I know people use that term in different ways, but I sometimes feel like I'm wasting my time if I'm not writing. So it's like one of those things where nobody has to tell me, you sit down and write. It's, it's what I do when I get everything else done and actually work towards getting everything else done to write, if that makes sense. So it's, it's like that compulsion.
Jeff: Did you know that you were going to lean towards academic writing?
Patrick: No, not really. And you know, sometimes I want to move towards a little more popular level writing. so even, even the book on the kingdom that I did, you know, it's more for people in the pews in the church. And so I like to do a little bit of both. I, the thing that I want to say about academic writing is, you know, most people think that you, if you do academic writing, it has to be stodgy and boring and hard to read.
And I just really rail against that. I think the writers that can communicate deep things in simple ways, that's, that's really the goal. so you think of a person, obviously, like C S Lewis, I mean, Ernest Hemingway. Even as you look at some scholars out there who are writing, I mean, think about the Bible.
Johannine literature is the perfect example, right? So he can write in a very simple way, but it's very profound and deep. And so. I even got critiqued on my dissertation, on a few reviews, or at least one review. I remember reading one where he's like, well, this style just didn't really fit a dissertation.
And I, I took it as a compliment because I used analogies and maybe that comes from preaching and, and being in the church. But, I think even when I was working with in my dissertation, just to pause on that for a minute, I remember I sent it to, Greg Alison was one of my readers. I think it was in Rob Plummer. And he was like, I didn't get the theory you were using until you use the example of Rosa parks. And he was like, that's what stuck out to me. And that's the only thing I'll remember. and you know, that just kind of spoke. I mean, he's a world class scholar, great thinker, and I was just dealing with something that was pretty complex.
And. Honestly, it wouldn't click for people until I use some sort of example. So I don't even remember what your original question was, but in terms of writing, I do think I'm trying to do a little bit of both in terms of academic and for people in the church and, but I do believe at the academic level as well, you, you need to write so the people can get it and they can understand it.
And I mean, really, why right a book where a good majority of the population, even who are interested in this can barely understand it. Like, that's not going to reach many people. And it kind of seems like a fool's errand, in some sense. so, so anyways, I, I think we need a push. Helen Sword has a great book on this, stylish academic writing, which I require for my students in the THM program where she just shows like you, you don't have to write in a way that.
Is boring and dull. You can be creative. I mean, there's a difference between being creative and cute, and I always have to kind of tell my students and tell myself to find that balance. Like if you're being too colloquial, if you're being too funny in an academic type paper, yeah, you're going to get dinged on that.
But there's a way to write, I think with analogies and with illustrations and with varying your sentence length and so forth and so on, that actually makes it enjoyable to read and people get a lot more out of it. So.
Jeff: man. Absolutely. I, As I think I may have shared this on Twitter, that I, I got accepted into the PhD program at Southern for biblical spirituality. And that was one of the things in the interview that we talked about, is that obviously I've done a lot of popular level writing and that it, you know. How do I view the challenge of now having to come into academic writing? what do I think about that? And I said, yeah, I think it will be a challenge. when I had to do some master's leveling work, that was one of the comments I got was, this paper's great, but it's too lay level, too popular level, too a funny, like you gotta.
Got to make it more like academic writing. And I thought, okay, this is going to be, this is going to be a, a struggle, to, you know, to grow in. But, so one guy, he just told me, Hey, you gotta do what you do for the papers and stuff, dissertations. But then when it comes to. The actual writing, after seminary, then, you know, have fun. Get after. Right. You know, like Kevin Vanhoozer, Michael Bird, he's got a, his commentary. Yeah. Like bird's got his commentary on Romans. He's talking about being a bacon, a bacon chomping Gentile. Like, you know, that's just great.
Patrick: I mean, it mentions like the Kardashians and his like systematic theology or something like, right. I mean, there is a, there is certainly a difference and you can't spend pages and pages telling a story, and doing things like that. So you ha, you have to know there's a genre, you're writing in certainly.
But I do think genres can be pushed and genres can be molded to do what we want. Like. sometimes we think about genres like, well, it's academic, so you have to stay in this lane, like who says we have to stay? Like, where's the genre king telling us we need to stay here. so, so I think we can make the genre what we want it to be.
And, and I, I just going back to like more people will find it interesting and readable if you do make it more readable and, and where you tell some analogies. And so with that more academic stuff, I try to keep those shorter. And I try to keep, I try to keep the argument tight and so forth and so on, where if I'm writing a little bit more for, for church people or, or just a wider audience, I'll, I'll spend maybe a little more time on the stories and so forth and so on.
So it is a different style, but I do think you can take many of those principles. I mean, honestly, what is writing? It's communication. And so if you're having a conversation with people that are not there, through your writing, and hopefully helping them in some ways. And if you're sitting there and you're boring them out of your mind, that's not a very good conversation.
So.
Jeff: Yeah. Amen. And listeners, if you don't know, Patrick mentioned Helen Sword. You can go listen to my interview with her. that's a few episodes back, maybe 20 or 30 episodes back, and we talk about her book, the writers diet, and zombie nouns and all that great stuff.
And I was such a great episode. It's probably my favorite. Episode. She was just such a wise coach and just teach her on writing. It was, it was outstanding.
Patrick: Yeah. She's great. All her books are so good. I just, again, require them for all my ThM students because they're just so helpful.
Jeff: yeah. Now, what are some of your, writers that have just been, maybe mentors for you, people that would, beyond kind of your riders, Mount Rushmore, your own personal, writers Rushmore.
Patrick: Yeah. Well, in terms of, in terms of academic or
Jeff: Anything. Anything
Patrick: anything. Okay. Well, you know, in my PhD, a big influence was Jonathan Pennington. And he really pushed, you're in the PhD program there at Southern. He's going to really push you on writing, and so he was really helpful in terms of just walking through writing and making sure it flowed very well.
So he, I remember this line that he gave me, he maybe still uses it. It's a funny analogy, but. He, he used to say to me like, you should let your reader like kind of slide down this like butter slide without any rocks hitting them on the way. So you shouldn't ever be jostling your readers like, Oh, what was that like?
What are you saying here? I don't quite understand. Like it should be a smooth ride always for your reader. So he was, he was always pushing me in my writing. He said, some of your ideas are good, but you're not getting them. Across well and half of the half the battle is getting them across well. And so I, I found that to be true.
Like the things that were most captured by are spoken or written well. So I look at his writing, I think his writing is very good. So, I look at Jamie Smith's writing. Jamie Smith's writing is very good, just in terms of how he uses analogies from movies, from TV, from music, so forth and so on. And he just not, not only does he have great ideas, not only does he.
Oh or write in a way that just captures your mind, but it captures your imagination. And so I think the combination of those two for someone like a Jamie Smith, even an N T right? Honestly and T right is popular. Partly because he knows how to write, partly because he takes concepts that are so difficult.
I mean, his chapter on second temple Judaism and his and Mike bird's most recent introduction is, is the best summary of second temple Judaism I've ever read because it's readable. Like it's fun to read. And so NT Wright is popular partially because of what he says, but partially because how he says it.
So, Kevin Vanhoozer, Jamie Smith and NT Wright, Jonathan Pennington. Ernest Hemingway, is, I would look up to him in terms of his style because he's so simple. And so one of the things, John Calvin, my father, brevity and clarity are just really what I strive for. And so I, I, I really work at trying to make my sentences short and kind of pop.
Yeah. But I don't do that always, because if you do that always it gets a little, you know, you're kind of like just duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. So you really want to vent, vary your sentence length. But I think what most people struggle with is, getting a sentence in there that's three or four words.
And so I, I'm even writing a commentary right now and I'm just working on looking at my sentences and saying, can I shorten this at all? Can I make it pop anymore? And if I have a long sentence right before it. I really want to put a short sentence or a few short sentences right afterwards just to kind of make it pop.
So, so those are some of the people I look at. I mean, obviously I love C S Lewis, JR Tolkien, severe, very, they're great writers. Alexander Dumas. he's great in terms of just storytelling. He, his books on three Musketeers, man in the iron mask. Those are some of the books, like in the past a lot. So, in terms of classics, those would be some of the people I look up to.
Jeff: Yeah. I think the, the varying of of sentence length, man, that is just a writing hack that if, if people could start implementing right away, it'll, it'll, I think it does revolutionize your writing. It just gives the reader variation and speed, and let things sink in. Like I, I think there are three people who have, who do amazing job at it, and they're all related. Ray, Cortland, Gavin, Orland, and Dane, Orland, all three of them. I'm reading Dana, Portland's gentle and lowly right now, and he just does a masterful job at having these longer profound sentences. And then a very short, abrupt, the sentence right after that that kind of lets it all sit.
It's kind of a nice shave and a haircut and then give any six bits right at the end. I mean, it's just, it's so good.
Patrick: There must be something in their blood. You know, one person said, you can do, and maybe you've done this is you know, when you're writing just the, how long your sentences are, you can look and see. But if you double space between each one for like for a page, you can just see in terms of visually how long your sentences are going.
Does that make sense? So like keep your, do one double space, go to the next sentence. And so just after you've written it, go through and say, Oh look, all of my sentences are like. 10 words, that means you're not very like, it's going to be the same length on your, on your page. That makes sense. So,
Who
Jeff: did that? Somebody shared that on Twitter and that they make their students do it.
Patrick: I don't remember. I feel like somebody else had told me that, so I do that sometimes as well. I just, I more look at it now and just say, okay, how long is the sentence? But it's, it's something I'm always looking for.
Jeff: Yeah, that's a great, that's a great trick. yeah. So man, you've written, Matthew, the about the discipled scribe. you've got, your book on kingdom through in covenants and stuff are no nuts on it. Kingdom and glory in the cross. What's the title of the book from Crossway?
Patrick: for God and the glory of the cross. Yeah. And there's a big debate going around about gospel. So you know, you can just pick up that book and get all your answers.
Jeff: Go pick that up.
Patrick: it.
And then. Is that it right now? I mean, I have my dissertation out and then I have a book on the Ascension coming out this summer.
Jeff: I'm s, I'm pumped foor that.
Patrick: And then a few, quite a few other projects
Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. So let's, let's go through the, the, the, your tweets. So at 9:57 AM my time, I guess. April 16th, 2020
Patrick: Yeah.
Jeff: at PJ_Shriner says, a few people have asked me what I'm working on during hashtag quarantine life in regard to books, projects there. The sit below, here comes the
Patrick: And I think that there's the, there's the edit you need in there somewhere. Tweets are terrible.
Jeff: One, I'm putting the finishing touches on my Ascension book with Lexham press @Lexhampress coming out in July, which may, I can't wait for it. And you say the second tweet, in it argued Jesus' work would be incomplete without his ascent to God's right hand, not only a key moment in the gospel story. Jesus' Ascension was necessary for his present ministry in and through the church. And that's in the snapshots of theology. A little series that Lexham puts out. Actually have Larry Hurtado sitting over here, Todd,
Patrick: it's great. It's a great book. That's a great book. I, I mean, part of the reason I'm excited about that series, it's just because that book was so formative and helpful like we were just talking about. I mean, he's done so much work. That's a snapshot of, I mean, years and years of his work, so that's a great book.
Jeff: Yeah. Destroys or the gods is outstanding.
Patrick: I love that book too.
Jeff: two, you said in June, the book Baptist and the church tradition releases where I contributed a chapter on hermeneutics. Three, I'm about to turn in a manuscript for a commentary on acts with B&H pub that looks at the book from a more theological, narratival and ecclesial way.
My guess is should be late 2021 for I midway through a book with at moody publishers called the visual word. And illustrate a guy to the New Testament books. I'm a very excited to see how this project show people this project based off my visual outlines I've posted on Twitter. That's gonna be very cool.
Five I am working on a proposal for a book on the gospel that is tentatively called the political gospel, and that's all I will say about it at this point. And I forgot to add, I just signed another contract with Crossway to do a New Testament biblical theology of Acts. I sketched out two chapters and we'll try to use the second half of the summer to work on it.
Dude, fill up your schedule, man. You got, you know, you need to find some stuff to do
Patrick: That's what my wife keeps saying. She's like, why are you doing this? You don't make any money off this.
Jeff: a man. She is preaching
Patrick: she knows though that like I, I just love to do it. Like this is not, this is not a chore for me. And you know, some of these are related. So my Acts commentary is birthing both the Ascension book and the ax biblical theology. So, you know, some of these things are spinoffs. So if things that I've thought through and I'm like, I can't put all this in this commentary I got, I got to do something else on this.
So. So many of these things are related, but, and they're different. You know, I'm, I'm trying to, one of the things I like to do is just write in different, at different levels. So the commentary is a little more academic. It's not, it's actually not a technical commentary, but it's still more academic. the essential book is more like the kingdom of God book and glory of the cross.
And then the acts book will again be more at that level. and then the visual word one is totally different. If you've seen Ryan Lister stuff, I think you've had him on here actually, right. So I'm using the same artists from humble beast and designing all of my kind of outlines in the new Testament.
And then I'm going to summarize the whole new Testament book in two paragraphs and then link to the icons that he's making for each section of the book. I'll have a paragraph summary. So what we're hoping that's going to be is someone sits down, they're like, I'm going to preach through Romans. Like you can look at it, outline the front of a commentary, but honestly, my eyes just go cross eyed when I see things like, you're like, what in the world is happening here, so we're going to fit the outline of every book on one page that's a more minimalist. You can kind of look, I mean, you can't look at it probably in 30 seconds and get it, but you can look at it for maybe two minutes and kind of get the flow and read a very short summary just to kind of have a sense of where this is going and how, how it's put together, and I'll use like a, for Romans, I put righteousness of God for Matthew, fulfillment for Mark, the servant King. So kind of get the theme up there and just, this is what I think the theme is for this. This is, if you, even if you're going to do a preaching series.
I'm trying to think for preachers, like what, what would be a good, almost like title for your sermon series? people can do different ones obviously, but I'm thinking, especially for pastors for that one. So that's been really fun and really difficult because it's a new skill because I have to think of what image I've got to instruct to Anthony who is working with me.
Like what image do we tell them about to do second Corinthians? What image do you do for comfort? Like, that's so hard to do. It's a totally different skill. So we get on, we get on once a week and I say, this is what it's about. And then we bounce around ideas for what kind of icon or image would fit for it. And, usually he helps me more than I help him because I'm like, man, I have no idea. Let's just put a cross for all of these and go.
Jeff: That's, that's, that's pretty funny. Okay, so you, you got all these, all these projects, that have, you know, some are done, some you're working on, some are, are almost completed. How do you keep these things straight? How do you organize, what does the writing week look like for you?
Patrick: Yeah, well, it's, it's not even the main thing I do because I'm a teacher and I run the THM program here at Western seminary, so that, that's the first thing I do. And so I, I make sure I have my classes and my grading. My interactions with students, and I'm in pastoral ministry. I'm an elder at my church. So those things certainly come first.
But, in terms of all the writing projects that I, I try to do, you know, each one's at a different stage and I find it helpful to, hopefully, I can continue this. I'm, you know, I'm new to this. I'm still figuring it out, but, So, so my Acts commentary right now, like I'm editing it right before it goes to the publisher.
My Ascension book is the fine editing, like the final stage where like just about done with it. So I just saw it typeset. We're still finding very minor errors, so forth and so on. So I enjoy every stage of the writing process. And. The other books. so the visual book, I'm more in the middle of it. I'm still writing, I'm still composing. The Crossway book I just composed like two chapters. So for me, if I sit down, like let's say I have a whole day to write because I, I've gotten everything else done. If I sit down and I try to compose all day long, like just write on a blank screen, usually I'm pretty much done in about like three to five.
Like I'm sapped, right? I could sit there and produce pretty quickly. And get something on paper. But after that, I pretty much need to add just because my brain is fried and it's a different, it's a different mental exercise to me. So actually with all these projects, I like having them at different stages because I just mentally can't be always editing.
Like I'm so tired of editing my Acts commentary right now. I'm like, it's killing me. But I know I have to keep editing it. And, and one of the things about my writing that I've learned, and this might be helpful for people, is. You know, people talk about different types of writers. Either you're kind of slow and clean, or you're like quick and muddy in your writing.
In other words, you either get stuff out really quickly and it's a mess, or you have a problem with getting things out, but when you get it out, it's gold. I'm definitely in, in the first case, I, it it out so quickly. I mean, I can. Like, I literally just signed a contract with Crossway and I got 20,000 words out.
Like, no problem. But it's a mess. It's a mess. Like it's, it's not even close to being done. Cause people are like, Oh my goodness, you got out 20,000 words that quickly. And I'm like, well yeah, but it's, I've got to edit this thing like 75 times after this.
Jeff: and that is not, yeah, we're totally inverse.
Patrick: You're, you're the different way. And that's, that's fine. Like, that's different personalities and that's how they work. So I, I can get stuff on paper, but man, I have to work at editing and I'm not, I don't think I'm a great editor. Honestly. I need help. that's where publishers helped me a lot. But I, I literally read through my manuscripts so many times.
Probably. there's no, there's not too many times that you can read through it, right. But, I read, I feel like I've read through my Acts commentary 30 times now, just editing, editing, editing, editing. And then what I try to do is I send it to people who are nice enough where they will read my stuff and you get different eyes on it and they see different things.
So. right now it's, it's gone out to a few scholars and a few friends just to say, Hey, help me out with writing and help me out with content. Help me out with whatever you want to help me out with. If you, if you have any time, give me feedback. So
Jeff: Man, I'm with you, I remember, you know, writing Humble Calvinism and then having to edit the chapters over and over and over, and then eventually you just think, I don't want to look at this again.
Patrick: yeah, you get tired of it.
Jeff: I don't even like it anymore. I don't want to see it. Just editor-you take it if you're good with it, I'm good with it.
Like I don't even want to look at it anymore.
Patrick: It's usually when it comes out and you're like, I'm so tired of this
Jeff: Oh yeah. But then when I got the first box of like author copies, it's like, Oh, cool. Open it up. I'm like, man, that's a great cover. They did a great job. I flipped open. I start looking at it. I'm like, that was dumb. Why did I put that in there? This book stinks.
No one's going to read this dumb thing.
Patrick: that's right.
Jeff: this is a nightmare. Okay, so
Patrick: I haven't read that yet, but I've heard great things. I don't think you're right about that.
Jeff: a lot of people are liars. you know, that's what we, that's what we know about social media. The book stinks this is, this is me trying to be a humble, humble Calvinist. So when you're going to sit down to, to write. Let's, let's now talk about, I this, I did this with Lore Ferguson Wilbert and I, I, I don't remember to do it. Whenever I sit down to do these interviews, I just sit down. I don't have any notes. I have nothing. And it's just a, just a conversation about writing. So I want to try to remember to do this with, with, with people on the show. this is like the MTV writers crib edition, remember that show cribs?
Patrick: Yeah.
Jeff: And so.
Patrick: The scholars who do cribs would be, it would be quite disappointing to take, take them through the house
Jeff: So we're just going to do your writing area and your desk and your like habits. All right, so, so what's the place where you typically write? tell me, tell me two things on your desk that are there.
Patrick: Yeah. You know where I write the best is at coffee shops. So I go to Heart coffee on woods in Portland. It's great coffee, and I don't really drink coffee, so I get some tea. but yeah, that's another story. But they have, the walls are basically all windows, and I put in headphones. And I sit down just with my computer or with research and I began writing. So, I like, number one, I like to change the scenery because it gives me a new energy. And so every once in a while it change coffee shops just because I feel like I'm in a rut and honestly, like a new seat and looking at new things will give, give me something, I don't know what it is.
Okay.
Jeff: So if you're not at heart, where do you go? Do you go to Cova?
Patrick: Yeah. Well, there's a few coffee shops like in Sellwood, which is near us that I'm like, ah, I don't even, Oh, a fair lane coffee. So there's some like local coffee shops. Cova is further away from me, so I don't always go to that one. But there's some local coffee shops that I go, I kind of go around.
Sometimes I go to our. A local public library to write. sometimes I'll go to a restaurant and eat lunch there and just hang out there and write. Sometimes I'll do it in my office, but my office doesn't have great windows. But if I need resources and I need my books, then I'll do it in my office.
Recently, I've had to do it at home. That's worked terribly, with COVID stuff. So we just have young kids and everything's going on, and I never know what, what's my role here? Do I keep writing or do I let my son fall off the trampoline? You know, So, yeah, I think the place that I write the best is at a coffee shop with, this is the other weird thing about me.
I have like Epic movie scores that I listened to while I write
Jeff: Not weird. Not
Patrick: no, that's not weird. Okay. So I have a Spotify playlist, like best studying scores, and I've actually posted on, Twitter a few times, but I have, let me pull it up right now. How many songs? I have 200, 206 songs.
Jeff: That's it.
Patrick: That's it. Sorry,
Jeff: How many hours? What's the hours of your writing playlist?
Patrick: 13 hours and 50 minutes.
Jeff: man, I have 466 songs.
Patrick: you killed me.
Jeff: 27 hours and 36 minutes.
Patrick: you got to share that with me
Jeff: Yeah, I'll share it with you. It's got explosion in the sky. It's not just soundtracks though, but there are a lot of soundtracks, so it's got the lone survivor sound track. social network.
Patrick: yeah, yeah.
Jeff: a lot of the, all of stranger things is in here. Anything Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross have done is in here.
Patrick: So I don't do the whole albums. Here's the difference. I just picked three songs that I love the best from certain ones. So you do, do you do a whole album
Jeff: I see the whole album and
Patrick: You cheated to win. That's appraised.
Jeff: Well, and, and like, yeah, you do, you, yours is more refined, but like, I have all the beautiful eulogy instrumentals in here.
Patrick: Oh, cool. Yup, yup.
Jeff: it's gotta be instrument, all the kinks, kaleidoscope, I mean, all that stuff. And then I just pop it on shuffle and just let it go.
Patrick: You know, and sometimes I can do just like indie music with lyrics, local natives. I mean, just whoever I'm listening to you, Bon Iver, honestly, I can write with, with even words coming through the speakers and it's fine. Especially if I know the music, if I don't know the music as well. Then it's a little harder for me, but, if I forget my headphones, I find it very difficult. I don't know. It's just something about my pattern.
Jeff: And like if I'm, if I'm at my, my home study, which is where I typically do most of my writing as I've got my, my vinyls over here, and sometimes I'll pop those on. That way I can get up, you know, you got to flip it. So I have, I'll have to get up that way. You're moving around and not sit in the chair for hours on end.
And, but I found out that one, the one artists I cannot write to is Stevie Ray Vaughan. He is too good. And I sit back at my chair, I'm making all the faces, like I'm playing with them and I start air guitar and I'm like, I can't listen to this and work.
Patrick: I thought you were going to say Drake
Jeff: No, I got enemies. you know, I, I can't, I don't, I probably didn't know how the rights to even say that.
Patrick: God's
Jeff: on here, God's plan,
Patrick: you should look at in some of my works, I try to sneak in footnotes like little, Easter eggs, you know, for people.
Jeff: I wanted to do that with a Seinfeld references.
Patrick: Did they cut them? Don't let people cut them.
Jeff: they cut it. They, I said something like a puffy white shirt. but it was a part of this argument I was trying to make maybe for definite atonement or something. I don't remember. And we just had too many words and so it had to be cut. So this whole like line of logic, I was trying to make like editors like this, this part has to go, I was like, Oh no puffy white shirt.
Like,
Patrick: Yup. Don't do it.
Jeff: but it's gone. So that dream, that guy, the dream, and I didn't do it for my first book. I was like, well,
Patrick: In the Acts commentary argue that God's plan is one of the main theological themes. So I had to footnote Drake.
Jeff: ah, so is that gonna make it?
Patrick: I have no idea. They haven't seen it yet, but I mean, I've got, I've got Kanye, I've got Drake in there. I've got, I've got a bunch of people that
Jeff: Kanye is good. Yeah. Kanye's a brother.
Patrick: I just slip them in there, so we'll see what the editors say, but I'll, I'll, I'm going to fight for him. I'm going to fight for him.
Jeff: It was, it was so difficult in my sermon that I preached last Thursday, that aired on Sunday, and I just started at First John. And when I said, he is the light. It was so difficult for me to not to say cut out all the lights. He the light.
Patrick: That's right.
Jeff:
Got pulled over, see the brights. Okay. now. So what we already talked about music, we talked about you don't have a writing desk.
so in either your study or your office at home or flip flop, whatever that may be, what are some objects in there that they just mean a lot to you? Either just, you know, cause they communicate a lot, you know, of truth and reminds you of things or this, you know, they're part of your personality.
Patrick: Yeah. I wish I had better answers to this. I, I've looked at like paintings that I want to get a, I don't have any of that stuff right now, so when I'm at the coffee shop, what means a lot to me is I'm in the city, let's just put it this way, and I'm watching people walk by. And I like being in the city because it just reminds me of where I'm placed and what's going on, and that very few care about what I'm doing.
So, but that, like, I'm writing to people who are ministering to these people, right. And I'm getting to them. So in terms of what's important to me, I usually have my chai with me. I have my MacBook pro, I have my music. And if you're at a coffee shop, you don't have any of your other stuff. So I actually don't have a lot of stuff like that in my office. I have my books around me. I have my standing up and down desks that I can stand up with sometimes. But, I've wanted to get some paintings. I just haven't decided what to, and they are. Yeah. I mean, I'm a, I'm a poor.
Jeff: I'll have to get a print framed. I'm like, good grief. And so,
Patrick: to steal them, you know? So,
Jeff: Yeah. National. It'd be like a, not national treasure. I don't know what it would be. Global treasure.
Patrick: I you little, you might have like magical devices, like, you know, Paul and Peter, like you could touch their garments and you could be a better writer. I don't have any of that stuff. I just honestly have my computer and what I'm drinking and the headphones, the headphones are the key piece for me.
Jeff: Yeah. So we need some, relics.
Patrick: A rally.
Jeff: need some writing relics. Amid Midwestern has them. They've got Spurgeon's hair follicles. they're
Patrick: it. I,
Jeff: in a tank.
Patrick: cigar that he smoked before he died.
Jeff: his cherry wine bottle opener too.
Patrick: I did, like when I touched those things, I became a better preacher. So,
Jeff: I, I developed a, a British accent for the day when I, when I did it. So like, and my study, I've got the a, do you remember? You've, I know you've seen it. It's a drawing of Eve and Mary.
Patrick: Oh yeah, the controversial one now because of joe carter.
Jeff: Yeah. Where, you know, and,
Patrick: no, I'm, I'm for, I'm for you though. It's okay. it's a great image. I've, you know, at the beginning, I, you know, I'm totally interrupting you, but I've thought about getting that one, and then I thought, dang, it got controversial now. I don't know if I want to do it.
Jeff: I don't remember the controversy about it.
Patrick: Whether it's to Roman Catholic,
Jeff: Too Roman Catholic. Okay.
Patrick: I mean, what's the controversy like is marry ourselves nation? And I'm like, no, it's . It's like,
Jeff: baby in the womb. Jesus in her womb,
Patrick: Yeah, exactly.
Jeff: clear. But Mary is the one stopping the on the snake. So I have that here, but I like a bigger version of it. So now, cause it was just like a little card
Patrick: It's tiny. Yeah.
Jeff: And so I found that, monastery, I think it's the, the word, the right word where they make them and they make them in a little bit bigger frame. So I have like an eight and a half by 11. Matted but not framed. It's leaning on a lamp cause I can't afford a frame.
Patrick: Yeah. I'm glad you're worshiping Mary. You know, that's, you can cut all of this, but.
Jeff: Well then it's right next to a Luther bobblehead. Yeah.
Patrick: There you go. There you go. You're just, that seems like it'd be very confusing to you. Like who am I right now?
Jeff: And then there's a James harden bobblehead adjacent to that.
Patrick: do you want to talk about the, what is it, 2014 Damian Lillard shot at all?
Jeff: man, I know there are some things I hope don't come up on podcasts, and that's definitely one of them.
Patrick: yeah, well, don't worry. We were, what are we? We're ninth in the Western.
Jeff: horrible
Patrick: Very horrible this
Jeff: Y'all are probably happy this season's probably going to get canceled.
Patrick: Oh, I mean, it gives time for everybody to get Nurkuic to get back up and we're, we're good. Yeah.
Jeff: I, I, I really do fear Steph Curry and all those guys too. But man, there's something about Damian Lillard that against the rockets, man, he's just stone cold. And I remember that night so vividly, a friend was, I think maybe two friends were over. We were dancing in the living room, all that jumping around.
And then when Lillard hit that shot, I mean, I literally fell to my knees.
Patrick: Yeah, I shouldn't have problem because you know the saints, when they beat the Vikings in 2008 or something like that, when we had Brett Farve, do you remember that game? And then the saints went on to win the Superbowl. That was like. They like stuck a dagger in my heart. That was the worst ever. They tried to injure Farve in that game.
They twist his ankle. Then he threw an interception at the end. But Damian Lillard, I mean, I'm watching the, you know, the last dance, I'm sure everybody, it's 6 million people are watching. Everyone's watching it. but Damian Lillard, he's not Jordan, obviously, but he's got that killer instinct
Jeff: right, right.
Patrick: there's something about it, which, you know, we won't talk.
I just don't think LeBron has that killer.
Jeff: I don't. I don't think so either. And I, yeah, I don't think harden has it clearly. I feel like Westbrook has it more than harden does. cause he just so intense. And so I, I was very anti us getting Westbrook at the beginning, but now I'm, I'm thrilled that we have them and glad that we do. He's so much fun.
And I still think Harden's great too. At the Westbrook bobblehead has been upgraded. It's on my desk. I'm next to a Calvin bobblehead. I have a lot of bobbleheads
Patrick: We've got two of the probably best bat backcourts, right? I mean, McCollum, Lillard, Westbrook and Harden. That's, is there any backcourt that's better? I can't think of.
Jeff: Active. No.
Patrick: Yeah, yeah,
Jeff: Unless you know Steph and Klay, but I would pick Harden
Patrick: yeah,
Jeff: Klay
Patrick: that's true.
Jeff: clay and depending on what needs to happen, I, you know, if I need the last shot at the game, I'm picking stuff. If I need somebody to care my franchise by themselves, I'm picking Harden.
Patrick: Yeah. Yeah. I would, Oh, we're talking too much basketball now, but I went a playoff game where stuff was coming back 2016 I think it was. He was coming back from an injury. And, yeah, we were beating them. I mean, it was a great game. The fans were going crazy. Playoff game, first round playing the warriors.
We were beating them the whole game. And Steph was, you know, he was kind of getting back from his injury. You could tell he was a little rusty. And then he turned it on the fourth quarter and over time it demolished, demolished us. And he was just draining threes. And I respected him, but I hated him at the same time.
Jeff: man, I was at the game where Chris Paul pulled his hamstring.
Patrick: Oh, yeah.
My
Jeff: wife and I were in the stadium. I saw him hop up and grab the back of his leg and I just knew it's over.
Patrick: Yikes. Yeah.
Jeff: that would've been it. We would've, we would've won and the championship, we would have steamrolled those Cavs. Ah, man. And I got a lot, a lot of rockets, Miller memorabilia around here too. And so I think, is there anything left to say about writing?
Patrick: I'm sure there's a lot, but
Jeff: You gave so much great advice.
Patrick: I may, main thing I'd say is edit, edit. You got to edit your work a ton. A ton. And that's especially for me because I write so quickly, but. you know, I have a document and another interesting thing about writing, I'll just add this. I have, a document in Evernote. I use Evernote to save some stuff and I just have a document called writing cuts.
And I literally, at the end of my writing, I go through and I search my, there is, there are, it is, it was my adverbs, my, that's my is I N G statements that was, that are very, anything that does doesn't need to be there. And I searched him. I don't take everything out, but I just look at all those and say, does that need to be there?
Like are usually a, there is, there are sentences are not strong sentences or it is, it was, it can be helpful in terms of if you're trying to make a point and being poetic or repetitive at times. But for the most part, I, I think it's a good thing to have those like things that you usually don't want in your writing and just control F.
And search those things, get rid of them. So that's one of the final steps I do. I just look for those things and try to strengthen my sentences.
Jeff: man, that's a great, great tip. I'll, I'll steal that and be frustrated at myself in the, in the process. Self-editing and self-loathing are very close friends.
Patrick: That's right.
Jeff: Well, Patrick, thanks so much for coming on the show, man. listeners, be sure to go to Amazon and search for all of Patrick's books. You can find Matthew, his, his book of Matthew, the disciple and scribe, there and also find his book on the kingdom and the cross from Crossway and all of his new books coming out.
And especially his Ascension book, which you will definitely want to grab. And then you'll also want to go. after you leave a five star review for this podcast, you're gonna to go to your podcast app and go over and find food trucks in Babylon with him and Todd miles is a great show, a lot of fun, a great theology, great guests, and fun conversations about food. Of course, it's in Portland and all that. Do you have a handlebar mustache yet? Or just just the beard.
Patrick: You know, I had one for a little while and then I just got rid of it on the quarantine time. My wife said, it's time to go so. I always grown it out. It was getting pretty big. I mean, to the point where, man, I was curling that thing. It was, it was going pretty high. I had an automatic like joker smile on my face all the time.
It was great.
Jeff: I have an automatic envy for everyone with facial hair, with a beard. Just my wife is a anti beard.
Patrick: Dr. Mohler at ETS was like, Hey, I see your hair's going every which way now, and then he walked away from me. That was him making fun of me for my handle stash. So. I just trying to think of something clever but to say back to him, but I couldn't think it up.
Jeff: So be sure to be sure to go listen to their their podcast about theology and a little bit about food, food trucks in Babylon. He goes, subscribe to that and go follow him on Twitter and Patrick, what's your blog? So you can tell people to go over there.
Patrick: I don't do anything on my blog.
Jeff: All right. Don't go there.
Patrick: Yeah, don't
Jeff: Go to mine, go to mine. I blogged there three times a year, jamedders.com
Patrick: There you go.
Jeff: And of course you can find all of my books on Amazon as well, and follow me on Twitter at Mr Medders and I love to hear from you. Be sure to leave a rating for the show in iTunes and all that. Tell your grandmother and as always, just to keep writing.
Show Notes Are Dead. Long Live the Full Transcript. What do you think?
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Jeff Medders: All right, everybody. We'll come back to a another episode of home row. And I'm your host, Jeff Medders. And on today's show, I have author Wesley Hill on the program. He's written all kinds of books and it's just a joy to have him on, especially we're going to talk about, talk about his new book and the Christian essential series, the Lord's prayer, a guide to praying to our Father.
[00:00:36] So Wes, how are you, man?
[00:00:38] Wesley Hill: I'm doing really well. Thanks for having me on the show.
[00:00:40] Jeff Medders: Awesome man. Now, what part of the United States are you in? Are you in the United States? I know you got your PhD from outside of the United States, but I think you're in Pennsylvania, right?
[00:00:47] Wesley Hill: That's right. Yup. I'm just outside Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
[00:00:50] Jeff Medders: Okay. I've been to Pennsylvania. Well, I guess a couple. No, at once, for sure.
[00:00:55]I went to red lion, Pennsylvania.
[00:00:58] Wesley Hill: I'm not even sure where that is, to be honest. I don't, I don't know my own state
[00:01:02] Jeff Medders: It's, it's up in the Amish country. And I remember going there with, some friends of ours that were missionaries in Thailand and they were in town. And we went to go visit them and we went to the Amish market and all this stuff, and I bought kangaroo jerky.
[00:01:19]I dunno where the Amish are getting kangaroo jerky from, but it's there and fun fact that if you go to the Amish markets and stuff, you can't use your debit card or credit card
[00:01:32]Wesley Hill: Hmm.
[00:01:32] Jeff Medders: cash only.
[00:01:34] Wesley Hill: I would believe that.
[00:01:36] Jeff Medders: That's something you want to, you want to prepare for that ahead of time, which I did not.
[00:01:38] Wesley Hill: That's right.
[00:01:39] Jeff Medders: not, but thankfully they had an ATM nearby,
[00:01:41] Wesley Hill: So probably really beautiful country to drive through too, I imagine.
[00:01:45] Jeff Medders: Yeah. Very cool. the horse buggies and all that good stuff. And then there was a few guys on rollerblades, which was interesting.
[00:01:51] Wesley Hill: Oh, right. Okay.
[00:01:53] Jeff Medders: so we had to talk about the, you know, it's not a motor, it was a wheels. They were okay with that and OS different stuff. It was interesting.
[00:01:59] Wesley Hill: Interesting. We'll come to Pittsburgh sometime, but we're, we're pretty fun city too.
[00:02:03] Jeff Medders: Okay. I'll put it on the list now before this turns into an Amish podcast. so Wes, why don't you tell the listeners out there who you are, what you do for work and all that good stuff.
[00:02:14] Wesley Hill: Yeah. Great. well the reason you're having me on your podcast is I am a writer. I've just written a new little book, for Lexam Press on the Lord's prayer. And, I really enjoy writing. I've written a handful of books, as you mentioned. so I view that as part of my calling, part of what I do. but for my day job, so to speak, I am a seminary professor.
[00:02:34]I teach at a small, Anglican Episcopal seminary here in Ambridge, Pennsylvania, which is just Northwest of Pittsburgh. And, I've been here, I'm in my eighth year now. and I teach in the Bible department. I teach New Testament. I'm also ordained, I do some preaching and, lead Sunday school at my church. so I'm, I'm pretty involved in different kinds of ministries, but that's, that's me in a nutshell.
[00:02:57] Jeff Medders: Yeah. So when, when you're not lecturing, Oh, let me ask just for fun for me. What, what textbook are you using for your new Testament survey?
[00:03:04] Wesley Hill: You know, I'm test driving the new N.T. Wright? One, that he coauthored with Mike Bird. That's come out from Zondervan. It's huge. It's huge. When it arrived on my doorstep, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is like a brick. so we'll see it. It looks really beautifully illustrated. And, I assigned.
[00:03:21] Emails
[00:03:21] Jeff Medders: from the Edge is a cool feature.
[00:03:23] Wesley Hill: Yeah, exactly.
[00:03:24] Exactly. So, you know, right. It's so engaging in the way he writes. I imagine it will be something that will grip a lot of the students, but, yeah, I'll let you know how it goes.
[00:03:32] Jeff Medders: I bet. Are you having them read the whole thing?
[00:03:34] Wesley Hill: They're not going to read every single page, but they're going to, they're going to read all the chapters devoted to different new Testament books for sure.
[00:03:42] Jeff Medders: that's right. So I'm planning this year, I'm just, I want to read all of the condensed version of Wright's works and then, you know, maybe a couple of the New Testament, you know, summary parts, but then save those for when I'm about to preach through a book or goes or go study a book.
[00:03:57] Wesley Hill: Yeah. Yeah. Great. I mean, I think that that series of books, you know, the, for everyone, commentaries are such a gift to the church. I've heard of so many Bible study groups using those and finding them really beneficials. Yeah. Plenty. A lot of good things to dig into there.
[00:04:11] Jeff Medders: Okay, cool. So, so when you're not lecturing and you're not writing and you're not, you're not preaching, what, what are you doing for fun?
[00:04:18] Wesley Hill: You know? So I have a unique living situation. I live about five blocks from the seminary campus where I work, a Trinity school for ministry. It's called . And, I share a home with a married couple and their two children and a lot of evenings you'll find me playing with their kids. They're, they're my godchildren.
[00:04:36] I've gotten to really enjoy kind of a domestic life. I love cooking now. And, I've, I've loved cooking for a long time. It's been a way to kind of unwind after a day at the writing desk or something like that. but it's, it's a joy to be doing it, you know, with people I love.
[00:04:49]now and, and sharing daily life with them. So yeah, lots of, their, their kids are now, three years old and six months old. So a lot of, playing, playing house and playing with dolls with the, with a three year old girl with Felicity, and, changes in diapers with Solomon. So, yeah, it's, it's been really life giving for me.
[00:05:07] I'm single, and it's just been great to kind of be integrated into the life of a family in that way.
[00:05:12] Jeff Medders: Yeah. That's very cool. Very cool. So how did you know that you wanted to become a writer or that you were a writer? Did I come to you in a, in a vision, like maybe a, a sheet. It's not full of lizards and reptiles, but of keyboards and, you know, journals --take up and take up and, right.
[00:05:32] Wesley Hill: Yeah, well, you know, I, I mean, I, I'm not sure I ever like set out to become a writer, quote, unquote. But I, I do vividly remember, you know, at age, gosh, I was probably 11 or 12 when I just started writing short stories on my family's computer. and I actually wrote a novel, a detective novel, mystery, novel, whatever.
[00:05:51] Over 13. I was so proud of it. I, I still do. I'm, I'm scared to go back and read it, although it'd probably be funny. Yeah. so I, you know, and I remember, I remember submitting a short story to, did you ever read clubhouse magazine put out by focusing on the family? I submitted a short story to them one time.
[00:06:09] And so I think I always kind of had the itch to like, you know, it's a strange thing. I think so many of us, right? But fewer of us have that urge to like, share it with other people and put it out there. And I think I have always kind of had that urge to, to share my writing with others. So, so maybe there's a part of me that has always wanted to be, you know, a writer as, as a, as a job.
[00:06:29]But yeah, so it, it, it sort of emerged out of, I developed a real love for theology and, and just good writing, when I was in high school and then I went to college at Wheaton. And, so I, I kind of developed a sense of calling that I'm, I want to be a teacher in the church. I want to be a theologian.
[00:06:47] And I think the writing piece of it kind of grew out of that for me. But I've always just enjoyed, I was actually talking to a writer friend yesterday about how it seems like a lot of Christians care about getting good ideas out there, but maybe fewer Christians kind of enjoy crafting sentences and playing with words.
[00:07:06] And I've always enjoyed both aspects. You know, the, the big ideas of theology, but also just trying to find exactly the right way to express them in a way that's going to be engaging and interesting. And, So, yeah, I think that's kind of how it started for me
[00:07:20] Jeff Medders: What's some of your writing process like, cause obviously like a lot of writers that, you know, were not full time, you know, none of us, none of the people I've interviewed I think, or none of my listeners, you know, weren't evangelical writing.
[00:07:33] And so this is not the kind of writing where you can live off of this stuff. the royalty checks are maybe, you know, we can go out to eat. Like, let's, I'll treat some guys to, you know, some coffee this weekend or wouldn't, you know, sometimes they're very, very puny. Sometimes they're, sometimes they're nice, sometimes they're not.
[00:07:49] But you know, you've, you're teaching, you're, you're pastoring. you've got your church community. I mean, even just got all kinds of stuff. So with all of that, in the, in the balance, how do you find time to, to write.
[00:08:03] Wesley Hill: Yeah. You know, I started, I started my academic career thinking that, Oh my gosh, I've now landed like one of those coveted jobs where I get a couple of months off in the summer and that's going to be like my writing time. I'll, I'll get so much done. And I also get, you know, a big chunk of time off around Christmas.
[00:08:20] That'll be another. Big productive time. And I've realized for me, like that's if I pin all of my writing hopes on those kind of big blocks of time. It just never, it never happens. You know, something will come in to kind of crowd it out. So it has to be more of a weekly or even daily discipline. and I, I sort of learned that.
[00:08:38]you know, early on, I remember Tim Larson who teaches church history at Wheaton, telling me, I asked him, you know, how have you managed to write so much while being a full time teacher at Wheaton? And he said, the key for him is just not, not counting on the holidays, not counting on the sabbaticals, but just kind of chipping away at it in small chunks week by week.
[00:08:57] And I think that's been true for me, you know, so I, I, I'll get up early and right before I have to go to class or I'll come home and, and you know, so, so typically at my seminary, we teach in three hour blocks. So like this morning I was in the classroom from nine to noon, and you know, now I'm here at my home office talking to you, this afternoon, but, but you know, I have a couple of hours after this and I can, I can get some writing done there.
[00:09:20] So I think it's. I think it's just finding those blocks of time, and, and then guarding them. So I'll actually put into my calendar, you know, this two hour chunk this afternoon is blocked off as writing. And then when I, when I see that, I know I can't schedule something else during that time. And, yeah, just kind of, kind of safeguarding those, those moments that you're able to block off, during the week.
[00:09:41] But, but it is, you know, I think, I think there's no way around the fact that it is a sacrifice. I mean, you're giving up. Time to do this, you know, if you care about it, so you're waking up earlier than maybe you would be comfortable for you normally to, to, to try to write something. so yeah, I don't, I don't know that that's anything profound, but that's, that's kinda how it's worked for me.
[00:10:01] Jeff Medders: No, that's great. I think just that little bit of advice just to even put in your own calendar, like writing, and to actually do it and now take appointments, not, you know, not fill it up and to do it. That's
[00:10:10] Wesley Hill: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. To to, to sort of give yourself permission to say, this is worth doing. Therefore, I'm going to like say no to, to other appointments that might arise in order to safeguard that time. I think that's important. Okay.
[00:10:23] Jeff Medders: Do you always write at your home office there, your home study or do you like you go to a coffee shop or seminary library or what's, what's
[00:10:30] Wesley Hill: You know, I, I find that I, I find that I really can't go to the seminary because there's just so many interruptions, like, you know, I mean, colleagues and students will come by and I, and I love that, you know, but I basically ended up just talking the whole time rather than getting work done. So I will. I will go to Starbucks and write.
[00:10:46]a lot of my best writing that I think just happens here at my home office. You know, I've got a, I've got a little space on the third floor of our house where I have all my books and you know, a desk where I can kind of spread out. So that seems to work best for me.
[00:10:58] Jeff Medders: What's your, what's your go to order at Starbucks?
[00:11:02] Wesley Hill: You know, I'm very boring. It's just a tall, dark roast.
[00:11:05] Jeff Medders: pretty boring.
[00:11:08] Wesley Hill: But the price is right compared to their other
[00:11:10] Jeff Medders: yeah. No kidding. If you want to, if you want to get adventurous, and you haven't tried it yet, the nitro cold brew is
[00:11:19] Wesley Hill: amazing.
[00:11:19] I do. Yeah. So in the summers I do like the cold brews, and you're right. The nitro is pretty great.
[00:11:24] Jeff Medders: I guess it is cold up there right now. Here I'm in. I'm in Houston, and it's actually cold right now. And so I'll tell you what it is for us. It's 53 degrees right now,
[00:11:33] Wesley Hill: Oh, wow.
[00:11:34] Jeff Medders: is, this is like freezing, you know,
[00:11:37] Wesley Hill: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[00:11:38] Jeff Medders: big, I took my son to school this morning.
[00:11:39] Everybody's in big puffy jackets and, and hoodies and all this stuff. So this is blistering cold.
[00:11:45] Wesley Hill: I grew up in Arkansas, so I get
[00:11:47] Jeff Medders: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You got it. Yeah. So I love the nitro cold brew with the salted foam. Oh man, that's amazing. And I got Matt Smethurst at the gospel coalition. I think he's full on addicted to it now as well.
[00:11:59] Wesley Hill: Oh, great. Great.
[00:12:01] Jeff Medders: So, so when you're riding there at your home office, are you using music? are you, you know, I like to pop a vinyl record on if, you know, if I feel like I'm going to be in the, in the groove there, what are you doing?
[00:12:10] Wesley Hill: Yes, sometimes. it has to be instrumental music for me. so I, I, I have been on a big Max Richter kick lately, listening to his sleep album, which is just a masterpiece, I think. so yeah, sometimes I'll have music on in the background. Other times I'll just be so much in the zone that I kind of just, I need no distractions at all, including instrumental music.
[00:12:30] But yeah, maybe I'm unusual in that way. I'm not
[00:12:33] Jeff Medders: No, I don't think so. I've heard from all kinds of, you know, people the way they do, like, yeah, I have no music.
[00:12:39]or they use the, there's a website called the coffeeivity where it has like the background, the ambient noise of like a coffee shop.
[00:12:47] Wesley Hill: Yeah, yeah.
[00:12:48]Jeff Medders: Don Whitney was actually the one that showed me, showed me that I think, there's people using, yeah, I like jazz music. So I like to, I like to write to jazz. right now I have the, the hub of Hubbard over there on my, on my record player on my turntable.
[00:13:01] Then I've got, usually Miles Davis, Thelonious monk. Some somethings are the stranger things soundtrack, like something's going to go up there.
[00:13:08] Wesley Hill: Oh, yeah, yeah,
[00:13:09] Jeff Medders: that'd be fun to listen to. Now. Now let's say you're going to sit down to write. cause now I, I know you, you write books, but I feel like I've seen you write articles at websites every now and then.
[00:13:19] Am I mistaken?
[00:13:21] Wesley Hill: No, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I, I've, I've written for Christianity today and first things and the now sadly defunct books and culture, my favorite place to write for no, no more. But yeah, so I try to, I try to write it for some periodicals as well.
[00:13:35] Jeff Medders: Okay, so let's, let's think about the periodical step before we get into book writing. And you're going to sit down to write an article for a magazine for a website. What is the, how does it begin for you? Do you, do you outline just on a piece of paper? Are you crafting in Evernote? What's the, are you writing in Microsoft word are like, what are you doing?
[00:13:53] Wesley Hill: Yeah. You know? so it often begins with me, noticing a hook for an article. Like I'll, I'll, I'll see a news piece that triggers some line of thought and, and, you know, I carry around a mole skin notebook and I'll, I'll sometimes just jot down a quick. Outline for a piece, and then I'll, I'll come back and open up Microsoft word and, and, and just start writing.
[00:14:17] You know, I'll have the outline in my head and sometimes it really changes, you know, as I go on, I kind of try to, follow what the piece seems to want. if that doesn't sound too esoteric, but just kind of kind of seeing what. How it goes from that point. And, you know, I think, I think I've had to learn, you know, so I got a PhD in, in academic biblical studies, and there's a certain kind of style that's expected for that genre, but it's a very different thing to write for a website or, or a periodical where you're, you're really, Trying to hold the reader's attention. you know, you can't count on the reader's attention in the way that maybe you can, if you've written a monograph that you know, someone who's researching this topic is going to want to read you, you actually have to earn, the reader's trust and convince them that this is, this is worth.
[00:15:02] You know, worth their time. so yeah, for me, it often begins with, with a kind of hook, whether from, from pop culture or something. I'm reading something I've heard, in the news and, and I'll often try to kind of reflect on it theologically or bring some kind of, historical or biblical depth to it, in that sense.
[00:15:22] But, but yeah, so I think it, and I, and I wouldn't claim to be an expert here, but, but it's a very different. Kind of thing to be writing for a popular audience versus an academic audience. And I'm, I'm still, I'm still trying to hone my craft in that regard.
[00:15:36] Jeff Medders: Yeah. Yeah. I can't, I can't imagine the challenges, for all that. I, I mean, I, I can't a little a tad bit, cause
[00:15:43] Wesley Hill: Hmm. Hmm.
[00:15:44] Jeff Medders: written two books, solo, coauthored one, and then, Writing for a popular level, like my most recent book is humble Calvinism.
[00:15:52] That came out with a good book company. And so, you know, writing with with some snap and crackle and pop and some wit and punches is a lot of fun. And then. I'm getting ready for PhD stuff. And so I had to do some, some work before that. And yeah, getting, trying to get more, cause I've never done heavy academic writing or having to, and some of the pre work for that that I've had to do is like, Oh my goodness, this
[00:16:18] Wesley Hill: Yeah, yeah.
[00:16:19] Jeff Medders: way different.
[00:16:21] Wesley Hill: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, having said that, I suppose the flip side is, you know, you read a really well crafted piece of academic writing. it's a reminder that not all academic writing has to be cold and boring and clinical. You know, they're, they're writers. I'm thinking of people like Richard Hayes who write beautiful prose, in a, in a very academic way, or, or NT Wright would be another good example. You know, someone who, who, who writes really well in that mode, so, so, yeah. I'm always . Just kind of trying to beat the drum for, you know, more of more of us who are trained professionally in the Guild of biblical studies or theology should care about good sentences.
[00:16:55] And like you say, the, the, the snap and the, and the crackle and the whipped and those things.
[00:16:59] Jeff Medders: Yeah, like Kevin Vanhoozer, he's gotta be one of my favorites.
[00:17:02] Wesley Hill: Yeah. Yeah. Our Robert Jensen, the late Robert Jensen, just,
[00:17:06] Jeff Medders: John Webster. I'm like, man, they're just a joy to read. and they just offer so much. And Michael Bird too. Michael Bird is hilarious. And so, yeah. Bird and Writght together. I mean, that's like peanut butter and jelly. This is great. Now. And writing your, your latest book, the Lord's prayer, a guide to praying to our father.
[00:17:26] So. When this, when this project was you, you signed on, okay, we're going to, I'm going to do this book. Was there ever a moment of regret and, and, and this way. I may, I got to try to say something new and fresh on the Lord's prayer. Like, you know, there's tons and tons of books, like, so man, that, that challenge, to, to tackle the Lord's prayer is as a, as a daunting one for such a small, such a small section in the new Testament, you know, nestled there in the sermon on the Mount.
[00:17:56]yeah. So, so tell us about, you know, kind of the process for writing this book and, Then I then I'll, I'll follow up, but just also kind of what your, what your, what your, what you're hoping that disciples of Christ learn as they read this book.
[00:18:08] Wesley Hill: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Well, I guess maybe the first thing to say is I didn't set out to ride on the Lord's prayer. I didn't imagine I would ever do that. I mean, I've, I've certainly taught it and continued to teach it at the seminary where I, where I work. but I didn't never imagine writing a book on it.
[00:18:22] Like you say, there's been so much that's been written. but Lexam Press, as you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation today, has a new series they've launched called Christian essentials. And, they're, they're short little books that are designed to be used in churches, you know, in Sunday school classes and kind of catechetical settings.
[00:18:42]so the first one came out, a couple of years ago, I think now the Apostle's creed by the Osprey. The Australian and the alerts and Ben Myers. and, so I, I got an email from, from an editor there, and he said, Hey, would you be interested in contributing to this series? And we talked about what I might do and kind of settled on the Lord's prayer.
[00:19:00]so it felt a little bit like, you know, in my, in my tradition, each Sunday we're, we're given the text to preach from, we don't, we don't choose them. You know, the lectionary chooses them for us. And it sort of felt a bit like that, you know, here I am being handed this text that I didn't necessarily imagine I would be writing on that.
[00:19:15] And now, you know, do I have something to say about it? And, yeah, I mean, you ask about regret there. There was a moment early on in the process where I went to the library and, I was, I was kinda had my breath taken away by just how many individual volumes. Have already been written, all the words, prayer, you know, stretching back to the very earliest days of the church.
[00:19:35] I mean, you know, we have, we have discourses on the Lord's prayer from origin and Augustan and, you know, it's just such a, it's such well-trodden ground. So, you know, I think, I think there was that, that initial kind of shock. And then I thought, you know, every generation needs to ponder this again. So it's, it's not a problem that there would be more, more reflection on the Lord's prayer.
[00:19:57]you know, it's, it's one of those texts that's so foundational for the faith that w we will never not need more meditation on it. so, so yeah, that, that kinda took away some of the pressure and, you know, I was kind of. Praying about what, what, what direction do I need to go here? What angle do I have?
[00:20:14] And, and, you know, I remembered, several years ago, George Hunsinger the, the reformed theologian at Princeton, published a little book on the beatitudes and he, he, in the preface, he says he was kind of in a similar place. He had been asked to give these lectures on the beatitudes and he didn't know kind of which way to go.
[00:20:32] And then he said, you know, what would happen if I, if I approached them Christocentricly and said, you know. Each of these beatitudes is a, is a window into the character in the work of Jesus himself. And and so he does that. He just kind of goes through a beatitude after beatitude and says, how does this point to Christ?
[00:20:48] And I thought, you know what, what, what if I approached the Lord's prayer that way? Obviously Jesus is giving us this prayer for us to pray, but. You know, before that or, or above that or beyond that at all of the, all of the clauses, all of the petitions point to him and tell us something about him. And he, he embodies the prayer.
[00:21:06] I mean, he even even literally praise, praise portions of the prayer, you know, throughout his ministry. like in the garden of Gethsemane, he says, thy will be done, you know, which is straight out of the Lord's prayer. So he himself is embodying this prayer and, and once I kind of. Once I kind of realized that was going to be my theme, it became much easier to kind of get into the prayer from there.
[00:21:25]Jeff Medders: Yeah, man, that's, yeah, that's so beautiful. It reminds me of when, you know, I had Jen Wilkin on the show and you know, she's written written books on the attributes of God, and asked her that is similar.
[00:21:35] Like, Hey, you know, AWP, you got AEW tells you, I mean, you've got a holiness of God, RC Sproul, you know, all kinds. So like, why, again. yeah. the next generation,
[00:21:45] Wesley Hill: right.
[00:21:45] Jeff Medders: this era of, of disciples who they're not going to go pick up Origen. They're not going to go pick up Augustine. I guess then are
[00:21:51] Wesley Hill: Although they should.
[00:21:52] Jeff Medders: they should.
[00:21:52] Yeah. They'd be so blessed to it, but yeah, to be ends, maybe some people will be introduced to, to the Lord's
[00:21:58] Wesley Hill: that's right. That's
[00:21:59]Jeff Medders: through this
[00:22:00] Wesley Hill: And that's. No, I should say that's the only thing that made me excited about this series is when, when Todd Haynes at Lexan, was pitching it to me, he said, you know, we, we want these books to be, people's introductions to some of the tradition of the church, you know, so he said, feel free to draw on the church fathers and the Protestant reformers, and, you know, the, the, the, the really great Christian writers of the past.
[00:22:20] And I said, yeah, I mean, that's really exciting to think about a contemporary book being used. As a, as a gateway into some of these treasures of, of centuries past.
[00:22:30] Jeff Medders: Yeah. I love it. I think it's great. Was there, were there any parts of the book that you found maybe one, one chapter to be more, more challenging than other others that you can remember?
[00:22:42] Wesley Hill: You know, I found the, the, the petition lead us not into temptation or save us from the time of trial. You know, it gets, it gets translated in different ways. I found that really challenging. you know, partly because it's been in the headlines, it's actually been in the news because Pope Francis, you know, is supposedly advocating this, this change in the petition.
[00:22:59] Because, you know, we don't want to imply that God is the one who leads us into temptation. And so I just, I, I struggled with how to, how to kind of address that in a way that wouldn't be too technical. but that would kind of lead people into the heart of it. And, and, and again, you know, Jesus himself, he, he says to his followers, you know, they're right before he's arrested in the garden of Gethsemane.
[00:23:20] He says, pray that you will be spared from the time of trial. So he's, he's teaching them exactly how to pray this and what it means to pray this. And, and, so I, I, I wrestled with how to go about that, and I think I'm kind of happy with the result, but it was, it was a really challenging chapter to write.
[00:23:38] Jeff Medders: I love, I love the Lord's prayer, obviously, for, for all kinds of reasons, but there's one element of it that I just have really come to appreciate, recently as I've been preaching through the gospel, according to Matthew
[00:23:48]You know? And Jesus tells them to pray like this.
[00:23:52] Wesley Hill: Hmm.
[00:23:53] Jeff Medders: so what he gives them doesn't even take 30 seconds to say.
[00:23:59] Wesley Hill: Yeah.
[00:23:59] Jeff Medders: And I think sometimes, and we're know trying to follow Christ and everyone laments, you know, their their prayer "life". Everyone wishes we had more robust and longer prayer times and longer seasons and prayer, which opposite.
[00:24:14] We see awesome modeled by the Lord Jesus. But I just find a. A peculiar comfort that he says, pray like this, and he gives us a 32nd short
[00:24:24] Wesley Hill: yeah, yeah,
[00:24:25] Jeff Medders: to really just validate all those times where we just say, I don't even know what the brother, than just Lord help me, or, God just bless me today. I need direction. I need guidance. And we feel like, ah, the shortchanged prayers, like I'm so unspiritual, but Jesus gives us a good model here.
[00:24:41] Wesley Hill: That's right. Well, and what a contrast to, you know, we, we have these examples in the gospels of the religious leaders of Jesus' day that he's disputing with, that seemed to love these very long theatrical kinds of prayer. And, and, you know, Jesus is offering something really simple as a contrast to that.
[00:25:00] And like you say, there's something comforting in that.
[00:25:02] Jeff Medders: Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Now, you've written, a lot, lots of theological works and, and, and magazines and articles, periodicals and, and all that kind of good stuff.
[00:25:12] And you've also written on the Trinity, Paul and the Trinity. Was that your dissertation or was it just another academic venture?
[00:25:19] Wesley Hill: Yeah, no, that, that book was a revised version of my doctoral dissertation, which I completed at Durham university in the UK, so yeah.
[00:25:27] Jeff Medders: great. Now, so what are, so how come, let's, let's go Trinitarian. How come the, the Trinity isn't like an Apple, and are like an egg or like H 2 O I mean, I just don't understand.
[00:25:40] Wesley Hill: Yeah, yeah. Gosh. I mean, you know, I, I'm not, I'm not going to say I would never use one of those analogies, but they're, they're so, they're so fraught with potential for misunderstanding. Exactly.
[00:25:52] Jeff Medders: Yeah. I tell people at our church, you know, we didn't know theology class and stuff. I just said, the reason why we can't find and apt analogy for the Trinity is because there is literally nothing else like it. in the universe. and heaven on earth and above the earth and places invisible, and visible.
[00:26:08] There's nothing else like the Trinity. So, so outside of the, just destined to crumble apple analogy and egg analogy and all that stuff. What are you would say some of the major, I guess short-sightedness of Trinitarianism, today and maybe you see it with students or, or maybe just the way we think about the Trinity, that you wish, pastors and writers, and church leaders, small group leaders, Bible, women's Bible study leaders, maybe, you know, could grow and shore up in.
[00:26:40] Wesley Hill: Yeah. Boy, that's a really good
[00:26:42] Jeff Medders: Yeah. Not, not to be too broad or
[00:26:45] Wesley Hill: Yeah. No, I think, so, so I'm, I'm, I'm currently reading through for the second time, a really beautiful book volume, one of systematic theology by Catherine Zonda rager, who's kind of working in the reformed, tradition, kind of, kind of working with Carl Bart and how he modified the tradition.
[00:27:04] And. she's clearly, you know, Trinitarian in this volume, but she, she talks about, how she kind of gets worried sometimes that the way modern theologians treat the Trinity as if it's like the only Christian doctrine. Like everything is Trinity. And she's, she's kinda calling us back to recognize the, the fundamental.
[00:27:25] Oneness and unity of God. You know, so we, we confess God existing eternally in three persons, but we, we confess one God, there aren't three gods. you know, we, we use this analogy of three persons in a dance or facing one another to try to, you know, get some PR. Just on the Trinity. But ultimately we're talking, like you say, about the transcendent reality of God, which even into all eternity, we will never plumb the depths of, you know, I, I love, I love Jonathan Edwards, vision of heaven that will never get to the end of exploring new, new beauties in God.
[00:27:59] You know, we'll, we'll never comprehend God fully. so I think, I, I think I would, I would want to say to pastors and Bible study leaders who feel like. Wow. The tr, everybody's talking about the Trinity now. The Trinity is so important. I have to really know all the ins and outs of all the doctrinal controversies, and I have to, I have to always be speaking in like a, a communal idiom.
[00:28:21] Like God is a community of persons. You know, I have to, I have to always be thinking that way. I think there are some dangers there. And you know, I think we need to remember that. we're, we're, we're using the language that God has revealed to us in his word of Father, Son, and Holy spirit. But that does not mean that we're talking about something that we would know of as a, as a community of, of three separate individuals.
[00:28:43] You know, we're talking about one God. we're talking about the one God of Israel who's now been known to us, been revealed to us as, as Father, Son, and Spirit. And I think, I think the other thing I would say, honestly, when I teach the doctrine of the Trinity, you know, in, in, in, in church settings and Sunday school settings and things like that, I try to remind people that you may not know all the technical terminology that the logins use for it, but you are already a Trinitarian if you pray as a Christian, I mean to, to bring this back to the Lord's prayer. You know, if you pray the Lord's prayer, you are already participating in the, the mystery of the triune God. Because what you're doing is you're calling out to God the Father in the name of, God, the Son whose words you're using.
[00:29:27] You know, he's the one who gave you the words of this prayer to pray, and you're being born along and carried along by the energy and power and prompting of the Holy spirit. so. It really, you know, the, the doctrine of the Trinity is an effort to say theologically what has to be true, if, if that lived experience of prayer is, is real and true.
[00:29:48] So, so the doctrine in a sense is there to clarify, it's there to kind of safeguard and to ward off error. But actually the, the getting the doctrinal formulations, right, is not the main event. The main event is actually this. This, this relation we get to enjoy with God through, through price and the Holy spirit.
[00:30:06] You know, this relation of intimacy and prayer. yeah. So I don't know if that's helpful,
[00:30:10] Jeff Medders: Oh, that's good. Yeah. Amen.
[00:30:12] Wesley Hill: that,
[00:30:13] Jeff Medders: Amen. Amen. When, let's say maybe a student, I'm sure you read and you get to grade all kinds of papers and, and you've seen good papers, you've seen good essays, you've seen really bad ones. what, what are some things that you would tell to a student you would tell to a, a blossoming writer?
[00:30:29]Hey, do these two to three things. and I think you're really grow as a writer.
[00:30:34]Wesley Hill: Hmm. Yeah. So I think, I think the first thing I would say, and this, this comes straight out of my own autobiography. I mean, I, I, this is how I feel like I learned to write is, is find the best writers, you can and read them. just, just immerse yourself in, in good writing. and ask yourself, you know, what, what, what makes it tick?
[00:30:55] I mean, I've, I've literally like grabbed, an Alan Jacobs essay some sometimes, or a James Wood essay, and said, man, the prose is so good. Let me actually just. Pay attention to this paragraph, like how did they structure it? Here's one long sentence with a couple of dependent clauses. Here's a shorter sentence.
[00:31:09] You know, like, how did they do it? How did it work? So I think just, you know, reading a lot, is key. And, you know, I, I think none of us should be so arrogant to think that we have. Something to say, unless we're filling ourselves up with, with good, good writing, you know, good, good thinking. I think that good writing often begins with, with receptivity, you know, with us, with us, receiving, with us, taking in, before we have something to offer in writing.
[00:31:36] So, yeah. And it, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't have to be, I think sometimes students feel intimidated. Oh, there's so much good writing in the world. Like, you know, where do I even start? But I would say just, just, you know, to borrow a line from Alan Jacobs, read at whim, you know, read, read what strikes you, read what grips you.
[00:31:52]and, and, and the more you read, I think it will, it will help your own writing. So, so be a reader. I think it would be the first thing. And, now the flip side of that, the second thing I would say is, I have a lot of students who. Frankly, kind of clutter their essays with quotations from other writers.
[00:32:10]Jeff Medders: takes up space for the page count
[00:32:12] Wesley Hill: Yeah. Well, exactly, exactly. And, Hey, I'm, I'm an offender myself. I, I, my editors regularly have to trim out quotations from others for me. But, but I would say, you know, don't plagiarize, but also just don't, don't rely on other words to fill out your argument. You know, you try to figure out how to say it in your idiom.
[00:32:32] with your voice and you know, certainly pay your, pay your intellectual debts by footnoting the people that you know have influenced you and shaped the argument that you're, that you're writing, but, but try to find your own voice and, and that, that only emerges through practice. You know, you have to write and rewrite and rewrite.
[00:32:48] And, so yeah, those are, those are a couple of things that I say to my students that maybe it would be helpful for your listeners too.
[00:32:56] Jeff Medders: totally. What are some, some, some of the people that you just love to read? And you mentioned like good reading, good writing. you know, a couple that you can like, man, I love their, I love their writing.
[00:33:05] Wesley Hill: Yeah. Yeah. You know, someone I have just admired more and more in recent years is the way that the former Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, writes for popular audiences. I mean, he's, he's long been known as a, as a very serious academic theologian, but he's published, you know, volume. Sermons recently and just these little books.
[00:33:26] He has a little book with urbans called being Christian and a follow up volume called being disciples, and they're so winsome to me because they're, they're obviously built on a lot of research and a lot of deep learning and study and prayer, but he writes so accessibly, like he throws out the academic jargon.
[00:33:45] And he just, he just writes like he's sitting across from you at a coffee shop talking with you. And I, I just am kind of in awe of that, you know, as someone who. you know, one of the things that getting a PhD does is it, it, it kind of invites you to write in a very jargony style. and, and for someone who's, who has gone through that kind of training to then be able to say, no, I'm not going to do that.
[00:34:05] I'm going to, I'm going to write in a way that's more accessible. It's, it's, it's both like really instructive for me. And it's also really inspiring. another writer who I just hugely, hugely admired just for the, the sheer. A beauty and zest of his sentences is Francis buffer. he's written a great little kind of apologetic for Christianity called, ironically, unapologetic. And he's recently published his first novel, called golden Hill. and he's just an absolute delight to read. So he's, he's a, he's a Christian and the church of England. He, he was an atheist for many years and kind of came back to faith. and he's told me that he's working on some, some more Christian writing, more explicitly Christian writing.
[00:34:44] So I'm, I'm really looking forward to seeing what that will be in the years to come.
[00:34:48] Jeff Medders: Yeah. Very cool. Well, yeah, listeners, be sure to go to the show notes there and you'll see links to Amazon and you'll find, all of, of, of Wesley Hills books there, the Lord's prayer, Paul and the Trinity, spiritual friendship and more, you'll, you'll find everything there. and Wesley, if people wanted to keep up with you on social media, where would you tell them to go? If
[00:35:10] Wesley Hill: Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, I'm still hanging out on Twitter. I can't seem to quit it. So, I'm just Wesley
[00:35:17] Jeff Medders: Twitter to break up with me first. I need you. I need Twitter to quit me
[00:35:20] Wesley Hill: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. But I try to, you know, if I write something online, I try to post it there so you can find my, my writing and things there. and I also have a little, my own little blog is Wesleyhill.tumblr.com.
[00:35:33] Jeff Medders: Thanks so much for coming on the show, man, and just giving your wisdom on writing. It's a really beneficial and I'm really grateful.
[00:35:42] Wesley Hill: Well, thanks for having me. I really enjoyed the conversation.
[00:35:45] Jeff Medders: Great, and as always, listeners remember, let's just keep writing.
Lore Ferguson Wilbert and I talk about writing, her new book—Handle With Care—and we talk about our writing desks, and old blog names.
No show notes today, or maybe ever again, do y'all even use them? They are tedious to make and I don't fee like it doing it.
Ryan's book: Emblems of the Infinite King
Ryan's other book: Images and Idols
Inspired by this blog post: 4 Ways A Pastor Can Improve His Writing
The article we are riffing on: 15 Pieces of Writing Advice from C.S. Lewis
Overcoming Sin and Temptation by John Owen
Dwight's Hay Place on The Office
Introducing Evangelical Theology by Daniel J. Treier
New from Crossway:
Twitter:
Question from Amber Vandermaarl:
My question is related to blogging. It seems to be the overarching recommendation for getting into a rhythm of writing and gaining potential exposure to see if my words resonate with anyone. But, being a young mom, I HATE the connotation of the “mommy blog”. But being a mom of one, soon to be 2, that is my every day. That is where I learn my lessons and am being daily sanctified. That is my fodder for writing. So finally to the question: should I do it anyway? Do the benefits outweigh the connotation that I am bored, basically illiterate, and just sharing recipes by having a “mommy blog”?
Gavin's new book: Theological Retrieval for Evangelicals: Why We Need Our Past to Have a Future
Confessions by Saint Augustine translated by Sarah Ruden
Gavin on Twitter: @gavinortlund
Jeff on Twitter: @mrmedders
Andrew's new book, Adorning the Dark: Thoughts on Community, Calling, and the Mystery of Making
https://www.andrew-peterson.com/home
The Road Back To You: Enneagram Book
Social Media:
Jeff on Twitter: @mrmedders
Andrew on Twitter: @AndrewPeterson
Jeff on IG: jeffmedders
Andrew on IG: andrewpetersonmusic
Her first piece at Desiring God: Two Funerals in Two Days
Books mentioned:
Advice to Writers: Get Freditors by Jen Wilkin
Social Media:
Jenn IG: https://www.instagram.com/brogdonjenn/
Mine: https://www.instagram.com/jeffmedders/
Jenn on Twitter: @Brogdonjenn
Me on Twitter: @mrmedders
My site: jamedders.com
My book: Humble Calvinism
https://www.glennamarshall.com
The Promise is His Presence: Why God is Always Enough
Everyday Faithfulness: The Beauty of Ordinary Perseverance in a Demanding World (Gospel Coalition)
The Memoir Project: A Thoroughly Non-Standardized Text for Writing & Life
My book: Humble Calvinism
My blog, jamedders.com
Twitter:
IG:
Article: https://jamedders.com/confessing-the-sin-of-platforming/
Babel and the Baptist are at odds. Let’s make a name for ourselves. Let’s not. Let’s increase our following. Let’s decrease, dwindle to peanuts, and baton everything toward Christ. How can we increase our social media buzz? How can people see more of Christ by what I do?
There’s a fuzzy tension here. It’s possible to want to help others think biblically, to look to Christ, to learn God’s word, and also “market” or strategize or share online. Martin Luther and George Whitefield utilized the technology of their day to spread the gospel and God blessed their ingenuity. It is possible.
Maybe the only way to navigate this area is to proceed with caution. Warning: Live Minefield. Go slow. Be mindful. Consider every step. Listen to counsel.
The challenging part here, at least for me, is the writing and publishing industry makes this super-duper tough.
As a young and unknown writer, I’m presented with challenges in publishing. My first book was published a couple of years back with Kregel. As time passed, and my agent sent out new book proposals, we kept hearing the same thing. “We love Jeff’s writing. He’s a great communicator. Clearly, Jeff has a bright future in writing. However, we have to pass on this proposal since his platform isn’t where it needs to be.”
Ouch.
I’d rather learn, “Hey, you aren’t a good writer. Work on that, mkay?” Amiright? Growing as a writer, I can work on that. But increasing my platform without losing my soul—when God hasn’t given it—is a mistake. Forced popularity is the lamest of all.
After hearing this statement from some of the most respected publishers in Christianity, I grew discouraged, jaded, bitter. My pride was shattered. And for that, I praise God. Hitching my joy to a collection of glued papers with my name on the front is a destination of disappointment. Especially when the horses don’t show up for work.
In the midst of the discouraging rejections—encouraging rejections do exist in this universe—I felt my flesh scheming. My heart hatched plans to artificially build a platform, increase my influence, and widen my readership. The blueprints for the tower were coming together. And then, conviction came right on time. Freedom rang too. God exposed the slimy residue of my heart. It wasn’t fun. It was quite embarrassing to admit—to tell my wife, my elders, and my agent—and now you. A blessed embarrassment.
I believed the lie I could make a name for myself for the sake of Christ. Baloney. That’s not how the Kingdom works. Sure, it might be how some Christian publishers work, but it’s not the way of Christ. During his earthly ministry, Jesus constantly sought the background, never parading his importance. The meek may not get a book deal, but they will get the earth. God has raised up some of his servants, bestowing influence, leadership, and a wide megaphone for the gospel. God did it.
I’m so happy for my friends who publish helpful, gospel-rich, joy-igniting books. Godly people publishing wonderful books. The book world isn’t all gloom and doom. New authors are rising and established authors still churning out solid work. Publishing is a business and a ministry. I understand publishers can’t go out and lose money. Consumers want what they want too. I’m not saying who all is to blame, except for the brick layers, for the widespread Babel’ing of our day.
I’ve found freedom in rejection. The silence revealed the chains. I hadn’t heard the clanging while I’ve been typing. Now, even as I write this article, there’s a swiftness in my heart and soul and mind.
Don’t read this as a jealous, petty, embittered, wannabe or wish-I-was-something writer. This is a tale of deliverance. And with every deliverance narrative, there are shrieks and goosebumps. It ain’t all pretty.
I’m content where God has me. My identity is in the crucified and risen Christ. I’m crucified with him. Crucified to this world. Crucified to a book contract. Raised to be a coheir of the cosmos.
I’m not a great writer. Okay. Writing the occasional article for other sites, writing on my own blog, if it encourages others, praise God. This is good. Clearly, I shouldn’t haven’t published another book yet. God is sovereign. All’s good. If I never sign another contract, never see my name on another cover, and never find myself on a platform—sounds good. The Lord knows. “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do” (Eph. 2:10 CSB). God has my good works scheduled. Whatever they are, and whatever they aren’t, I’m ready to walk in them. Are you?
Mark's book, Authorized: The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible
https://www.usaultimate.org/about/ultimate/
https://madebypilcrow.com
Ca
Catherine's Amazon Author Page
Her new books:
Her first book: A Christ-Centered Wedding
Real: The Surprising Secret to Deeper Relationships
http://www.cathparks.com/
https://twitter.com/CathParks
https://twitter.com/mrmedders
My new book, Humble Calvinism.
East of Eden (Penguin Twentieth Century Classics): John Steinbeck
Beyond the Point: A Novel: Claire Gibson:
On Writing: 10th Anniversary Edition: A Memoir of the Craft: Stephen King
On Writing Well: The Classic Guide to Writing Nonfiction: William Zinsser:
Dispatches from the Front: https://www.dispatchesfromthefront.org/
Dispatches DVD on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/143354069X/jeffmedd-20
Tim's new book, A Company of Heroes: Portraits from the Gospel's Global Advance
https://www.frontlinemissions.info/
Abound Dispatches from the Front
https://www.timkeesee.com/
My blog: https://jamedders.com
My Twitter: @mrmedders
My books on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B00PQTDMLO
--
SPONSOR: Christian Standard Bible
Mark's Book: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1433561484/jeffmedd-20
Mark's Site: http://markvroegop.com/
Mark's Books: http://markvroegop.com/books/
https://twitter.com/MarkVroegop
https://www.instagram.com/vroegopmark/
My sermons on lament: http://www.makingmuchofjesus.org/sermons/series/learning-to-lament
Resources for lament and suffering: https://jamedders.com/resources-during-suffering-and-lament/
My article at Desiring God on Lament: https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/you-cannot-handle-your-pain
Book, Deep Work: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1455586692/jeffmedd-20
https://twitter.com/mrmedders
My blog: https://jamedders.com/
My books on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B00PQTDMLO
Back to the Basics
Have you wondered why the podcast is called Home Row?
It hit me a few weeks ago that many listeners had no idea.So, here we go.
**Well, what is the home row on your keyboard?
It’s where your 8 fingers, 4 on the left and 4 on the right hand rest, kind of as a launch pad for the mission you are on.
From left it right it is: asdf jkl;
From that layout of the keyboard, you can strike all of the letters and craft your words, sentences, and stories. It’s one of the beginning stages of a writer. You rest your hands on those keys and you begin. ASDF JKL;
You tap your fingers oh home row when you are thinking, like a little dance on top of those keys, wondering what keys will be hit next as the ideas form in your brain.
Every writer uses home row. Every writer begins at home row. All writing is employing the basics. You never move on from home row.
The show is called Home Row because ASDF JKL; wouldn’t make any sense, but it’s a reminder to that writers start at the beginning. All of us. It’s the only place to begin.
Whether you are writing a book on the trinity, a blog post on parenting, or a devotional for teenagers—we are all assemble at home row.
Sometimes we can over think it as a writer. How should I start? What will happen in the next chapter? I’m not sure this will even be any good.
Don’t begin there. Begin at home row.
I’m sure you’ve been asked like I have been, many times: How do I start writing?
Put your hands on home row. Right there. You are now like a runner in the starting blocks, or a swimmer on the blocks. Go. Type. Keystroke. Swim.
The act of writing begins at home row. Every writer lives there. Let’s keep writing.
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Nancy Guthrie is a prolific writer, a great teacher of the Bible, and she's got buckets of wisdom to share on writing, publishing, and Biblical Theology.
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Reading about writing is easy. Writing is work. Learn from new author, John Onwuchekwa, on writing and the role prayer plays in our writing.
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Rest is required for writers too. Your best stuff might rise to the surface when you rest.
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Writers can be agitators. It can be a good thing and a bad thing. But faithful writers will be a great witness to the gospel of the kingdom. Listen as Alan Noble talks to us about the journey of writing his book, Disruptive Witness.
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You are a theologian. Every writer is writing theology. The question is whether the writing is faithful, sound, and beautiful. Listen to Dr. Matthew Barrett from Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary as we talk about writing and theology.
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All good writing is actually a product of rewriting, editing, and rewriting again. Listen as Juan Sanchez and I talk about writing our recent books and lessons he's learned along the way.
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Tim Chester has written a ton of books. Amazon can barely contain all of Tim's books. Listen as Tim talks about his habits and practices in writing.
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Jen Wilkin is back! In this episode, Jen talks about writing theology, her new book: In His Image, she answers listener questions, and she gives writing advice to male and female writers.
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Lots of people want to be writers, but if you don't sit down and write, you won't become one. Listen as Dan Darling tells us about his professional writing career, the rhythms of being a real writer, and his new book: The Dignity Revolution.
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Listen as Joe Rigney, professor and pastor and author, guides us through the wardrobe of the writings and mind of C.S. Lewis—and see what that means for your today.
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Reading and writing are the writer's peanut butter and jelly. We can debate crunchy or smooth another time. But there is no debate that Karen Swallow Prior is a stellar writer, filled with sage advice for us fellow writers.
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Collin Hansen is a smart man. Like, super-duper wise. Listen as Collin tells us the kind of writing TGC craves, and how you can improve as a writer—and how to treat an editor.
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What software do you use? How do you edit? Every writer has tools, and each tool is used at a certain stage. Let's open the toolbox.
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Ready to learn from a sage of writing and editing? Marvin Olasky is ready to give your 12 practical pieces of advice to help your writing. Your readers will thank you—and they'll thank Marvin too.
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Tim Challies is a writer who can't write right now because of a condition that keeps him from typing. So what does a writer who can't right do? Listen and learn from Tim as he pursues his craft even when obstacles rise.
Also, listen to Tim talk about the book market, reading less, and his new epic project.
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Writers don't want to think about advertising, marketing, social media, and platform. But you must. Don't treat these four buckets like the four horsemen of the Writer-Pocalypse. Today on the show we have Chris Martin and his job is to help writers navigate these waters. Listen and learn.
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Professor and prolific writer, Dan Dewitt, takes us into the mind and rhythms of writers—his own and C.S. Lewis.
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Get ready for notebooks for wisdom The Gospel Coalition's journalist, Sarah Eekhoff Zylstra. Sarah is a senior writer for The Gospel Coalition and contributing editor at Christianity Today. She earned her master’s degree in journalism from Northwestern University.
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All of our writing, whether fiction, poetry, or non-fiction should center on Jesus. How? Listen to Tony Merida and me talk about being Christ-centered writers.
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Are you ready to tackle your writing in 2018? Here are 10 resolutions, goals, ideas, whatevers, for us writers as we get to work this year.
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On Ep. 29, I answer two listener questions: How can writers avoid idolatry in our writing, and how can we use Twitter to help our writing.
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Roy Peter Clark is professional writer. Boss-level. He has taught writing at Poynter to students of all ages since 1979. Roy teaches writing, reporting, editing, reading, language and politics, American culture, ethics, and the standards and practices of journalism. He is the author or editor of eighteen books. His most recent include Writing Tools, The Glamour of Grammar, Help! For Writers, How to Write Short, and The Art of X-ray Reading.
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Ready to learn from a writing professor? In this instant-classic, Helen Sword tells us about her book The Writer's Diet and what exactly are Zombie Nouns—and why we should avoid them like the living-dead.
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On today's episode, I answer a listener question with an answer from C.S. Lewis on his vision for writing.
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Lots of people have ideas for a book, but that doesn't mean it should be published. Listen as author and acquisitions editor at Moody Books, Drew Dyck, pull back the curtain and tells you how it works.
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At nineteen years old, Jaquelle has published her first book with Crossway, written for Desiring God, and helps lead a workshop for writers. Listen in and learn from this writing veteran. I sure did!
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On this episode I start to answer listener questions and address what is a vital step in being a writer. You gotta sit down and do the work. No more procrastinating. Do the work.
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Eric Geiger serves as one of the Vice Presidents at LifeWay Christian Resources, leading the Resources Division. Eric received his doctorate in leadership and church ministry from Southern Seminary. Eric has authored or co-authored several books including Creature of the Word and the best selling church leadership book, Simple Church.
Eric is married to Kaye, and they have two daughters: Eden and Evie. During his free time, Eric enjoys dating his wife, playing with his daughters, and shooting basketball.
You'll be able to tell that this episode was recorded before the Rockets lost to the Spurs. So, please excuse my fandom.
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Matt Smethurst is managing editor of The Gospel Coalition and author of 1–2 Thessalonians: A 12-Week Study (Crossway, 2017). He and his wife, Maghan, have three children and live in Louisville, Kentucky.
Listen to Matt detail how I changed his life. Discover my favorite candy. And of course, listen to Matt’s wisdom on writing.
1:50 Matt honors me for changing his coffee life
10:50 Our favorite candy
13:35 How Matt became an editor
15:45 What’s the hardest part about writing for Matt?
17:17 How we can grow in creativity
20:46 What kind of writing does TGC look for?
27:00 What are some of the common writing mistakes the editors at TGC see?
37:00 What advice do you have for those who want to turn submit a piece to TGC?
Find all of Matt's writing at TGC here: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/author/Matt-Smethurst
Follow Matt on Twitter: @MattSmethurst
Follow me, J.A. Medders: @mrmedders
My blog: www.jamedders.com
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Listen to author, historian, and professor Thomas Kidd and I discuss multipack of topics on writing. George Whitfield used the technology and platform of his day for the spread of the gospel. What can we learn from him and our writing? Is platform wrong? Social media can do a lot of good things—if it weren't for Twitter, Dr. Kidd and I would have never connected. Listen as Dr. Kidd and I navigate it all.
Today's music: Purple Dinosaur by nobigdyl
Sign up for Dr. Kidd's newsletter: https://t.co/ayd1BCspeS
Dr. Kidd's books:
Benjamin Franklin: The Religious Life of a Founding Father, http://amzn.to/2qTuXYJ
George Whitefield: America's Spiritual Founding Father, http://amzn.to/2pXiqWP
Find the rest of his books here: http://amzn.to/2ps0VuI
Twitter: @ThomasSKidd, me: @mrmedders
My blog: http://jamedders.com/
My books on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2pshkzp
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Listen to David Murray, author and professor, talk about how he became a writer, the struggles in writing, burnout and pace as a writer.
Check out David's blog: http://headhearthand.org/blog/
His new book, Reset: Living a Grace-Paced Life in a Burnout Culture: http://amzn.to/2pQl7KC
How Sermons Work: http://amzn.to/2qxk0fb
Jesus on Every Page: http://amzn.to/2qxeiKn
And the rest of David's books on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2pQvLAO
Find David on Twitter: @davidpmurray
Find me on Twitter: @mrmedders
My blog: http://jamedders.com/
My books on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2pQBIhc
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Listen to Lore (pronounced Loreee) and I talk writing, C.S. Lewis, editing, and vulnerability in our writing.
Big thanks to rapper, nobigdyl, for providing today's music. Check out his album Canopy. Todays tracks: Tree Tops and Purple Dinosaur. https://www.nobigdyl.com/
Check out Lore's website, Sayable: http://www.sayable.net/
Lore's latest book projects, Read and Reflect Series:
Follow Lore on Twitter: https://twitter.com/lorewilbert
Find my books on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2qfnin6
My site: http://jamedders.com/
And find me on Twitter, @mrmedders
Peace!
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On today's show, Russ Ramsey, author and editor, drops writing wisdom all over the place in this episode.
The Rabbit Room: https://rabbitroom.com/
The app I use to proof my work, Pro Writing Aid: https://prowritingaid.com/
He Reads Truth: http://hereadstruth.com/
Check out Russ's books on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2o7bPIb
Get Russ's latest book, Struck: http://amzn.to/2oFwlRn
Here's my books on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2oelQUn
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Episode 14: Scott Sauls on Writing by J.A. Medders
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Episode 13: Trillia Newbell on Writing by J.A. Medders
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On the final episode of Season 2, I talk with Scott James.
Who?
Scott, like me, isn't a celebrity pastor or writer. He's an ordinary person, and he's a great writer.
Scott is a lay elder at the Church at Brook Hills in Birmingham, Alabama. And, Scott is also a full-time doctor. He's a smart guy with a demanding job and full plate. So how does Scott find time to write? How did he become a writer?
I love Scott's story. I think you will too.
Scott's books on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2hMYz6N
My books: http://amzn.to/2h3xGwu
Find Dr. Vanhoozer's books: http://amzn.to/2gZ8mpR
The article he mentioned: How To Write a Theological Sentence: http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/09/26/3856546.htm
Need help checking your writing? Grammarly is a friend you'll like: https://app.grammarly.com/
My books on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2g3kEv4
My website: www.jamedders.com
Just Keep Writing.
ASDF JKL;
In this episode, Russell Moore and I talk about growing as a writer, how country music helps his writing, and why writing with End Times theology in mind is a good thing. Listen and learn from one of my favorite writers.
Article on Procrastination: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/02/why-writers-are-the-worst-procrastinators/283773/
Dr. Moore's website: http://www.russellmoore.com/
The ERLC: http://erlc.com/
Dr. Moore's books: http://amzn.to/2fkCtsl
Twitter: @drmoore
My website: http://jamedders.com/expository-mutterings/
My books: http://amzn.to/2g9TyTH
Twitter: @mrmedders
On this episode of Home Row, Don Whitney and I talk about writing, ministry, fountain pens, and more. Listen as Dr. Whitney talks about his emphasis on writing on spiritual disciplines and the things that help us grow in Christ. Hear the story of how his landmark book came to life.
Dr. Whitney's books:
Praying the Bible: http://amzn.to/2ewMJue
Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life: http://amzn.to/2ewOEP6
Dr. Whitney's website: http://biblicalspirituality.org/
My books on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2fyfgQJ
Here is a blog post I wrote on the perfect starter fountain pen: http://jamedders.com/a-perfect-beginner-fountain-pen/
Jen Wilkin and I talk writing, creativity, editing, being from Texas, au-gratin potatoes, and the challenge of writing a fresh work on God's attributes.
Be sure to check out Jen's author page on Amazon: http://amzn.to/2eyf1Kb
Her first book, Women of the Word, has sold over 50,000 copies. http://amzn.to/2eyhGmK
Her book on the attributes of God, None Like Him, snag it here: http://amzn.to/2dZgG9w
Follow Jen on Twitter: @jenniferwilkin
Follow me, J.A. Medders: @mrmedders
Mr. Wordsmith himself, Douglas Wilson, and I talk about, you guessed it: writing.
Doug's Amazon Page:
Doug's Book on Writing: Wordsmithy
If you want to buy a book on writing, this is the one. Wordsmithy is my favorite. http://amzn.to/29oyuIG
Enjoy the show, spread the word, and write something that makes people mumble to themselves, "That was good."
On this episode author Trevin Wax and I talks about the three kinds of writers, where writers should start writing, and motivations in writing.
Show Notes:
Trevin's Books:
Gospel-Centered Teaching: http://amzn.to/1WBw3FR
Counterfeit Gospels: http://amzn.to/1TXDF1p
Holy Subversion: http://amzn.to/1qr9JAo
Clear Winter Nights: http://amzn.to/1WBw64v
Trevin's Blog: https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/trevinwax/
Three Kinds of Writers: https://blogs.thegospelcoalition.org/trevinwax/2015/05/26/which-kind-of-writer-are-you-microwave-crockpot-or-stir-fry/
Recommend Books on Writing:
Words Fail Me: http://amzn.to/1Nx3PsP
On Writing: http://amzn.to/1rRZBlB
On Writing Well: http://amzn.to/1Nx3Xbv
Wordsmithy: http://amzn.to/1Nx3Rkh
The Rhetoric Companion: http://amzn.to/1WBwgc7
My Author Page: http://amzn.to/1Nx47zP
Twitter: @trevinwax / @mrmedders
Thanks for listening!
On this episode, Tim Challies and I talk about discipline as a writer, growing through the daily slug, and how to stay focused on your calling as a writer.
SHOW NOTES:
The Game of Life: http://amzn.to/1T2L6kI
Tim's books:
My Books:
Ulysses Writing App that Tim and I both love: http://www.ulyssesapp.com/
Tim on Twitter: @challies
J.A. on Twitter: @mrmedders
Be sure to frequent Tim's blog at www.challies.com
Barnabas and I talk about writing tips, his favorite writing books, and how to promote your writing without feeling sleazy.
Barnabas on Twitter: https://twitter.com/BarnabasPiper
J.A. on Twitter: https://twitter.com/mrmedders
Barnabas' Books: http://amzn.to/1U2LfK0
J.A.'s Books: http://amzn.to/1MDDbhm
The Blazing Center: http://theblazingcenter.com/
The Happy Rant Podcast: http://theblazingcenter.com/2016/04/new-happy-rant-t4g-recap-singles-ministries-and-what-were-working-on-next.html
Tony on Twitter: https://twitter.com/TonyReinke
Jeff on Twitter: https://twitter.com/mrmedders
Tony's Books:
Lit!: A Christian Guide to Reading Books: http://amzn.to/1qjmCws
Newton On The Christian Life: http://amzn.to/1SZCcXM
The Joy Project: A True Story of Inescapable Happiness https://tonyreinke.com/the-joy-project/
Jeff's book: Gospel Formed: http://amzn.to/1qKbWb3
Tony's favorite books on writing: https://tonyreinke.com/2015/10/08/books-on-building-great-sentences-advice-for-writers/
Ask Pastor John: http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/by-series/ask-pastor-john
In our first episode, Jared C. Wilson and J.A. Medders talk about writing, the writing life, tips and tricks, fat royalty checks, and writer's block.
Jared's Books - http://jaredcwilson.com/books/
Jared's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jaredcwilson
Coffivity - https://coffitivity.com/
For the Church - http://ftc.co/
Midwestern Seminary - http://www.mbts.edu/