Grand Tamasha

Latest Episodes:

The Hidden History of Conservative Economics in Post-1947 India Oct 11, 2023

Show notes

Toward a Free Economy: Swatantra and Opposition Politics in Democratic India is a new book on the Swatantra Party, a leading opposition party that emerged after Indian independence to contest the entrenched dominance of the Congress Party. The leaders of Swatantra imagined a conservative alternative to the left-of-center Congress, one that embraced libertarian principles and promoted the idea of a “free economy.” This new book, written by the historian Aditya Balasubramanian, holds many lessons for how we understand democracy, neoliberalism, and India’s own economic evolution today.

This week Milan sits down with Balasubramanian, a lecturer in economic history at the Australian National University, to talk more about his new work and the history of conservative economic thought in India. The two discuss why and how Swatantra leaders parted ways with Gandhi and other leading lights of the nationalist movement, the meaning of a “free economy,” and the ordinary Indians who powered the party’s sudden rise in the late 1960s. Plus, the two discuss the legacy of the Swatantra Party several decades after the party’s collapse and the death of its key figures—and what lessons it might hold for India’s opposition.

Episode Notes:

Aditya Balasubramanian, “Toward a Free Economy: Swatantra and Opposition Politics in Democratic India,” Lecture at King’s India Institute, July 5, 2023.

Aditya Balasubramanian, “Some lessons for INDIA from the Swatantra Party,” Hindustan Times, August 31, 2023.

An Unconventional History of 20th Century South Asia Oct 04, 2023

Show notes

Shadows at Noon: The South Asian Twentieth Century is a sweeping new book by the historian Joya Chatterji. The book tells the subcontinent's story from the British Raj through independence and partition to the forging of the modern nations of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. This is no ordinary history, however. Of course, there is plenty of politics and an in-depth discussion of citizenship, nationalism, and political leaders past and present. But there is equal attention paid to unconventional topics—such as food, leisure, and household dynamics.

Joya Chatterji is a Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, Emeritus Professor of South Asian History at the University of Cambridge and Reader in International History at the London School of Economics.

She joins Milan on the podcast this week to talk about this career-defining work. The two discuss the continuity—and change—in the post-1947 trajectories of Bangladesh, India, and Pakistan; India’s unique liberal “accent”; and the striking resemblance between Nehru and Jinnah that often goes unsaid. Plus, the two discuss the region’s culinary habits, the unspoken tensions within South Asian households, and what sets Bollywood apart from Hollywood.

Episode Notes:

William Dalrymple, “Shadows at Noon: The South Asian Twentieth Century by Joya Chatterji review – charming, genre-defying study,” The Guardian, July 3, 2023.

Rana Mitter, “Shadows at Noon — Joya Chatterji exposes the beating heart of south Asia,” Financial Times, August 11, 2023.

“Ramachandra Guha Revisits India After Gandhi,” Grand Tamasha, April 19, 2023.

What the Personal Data Protection Act Means for India Sep 27, 2023

Show notes

This August, India’s parliament passed a landmark piece of legislation, known as the Digital Personal Data Protection Act. The new act provides a framework for the protection of users’ personal data and the privacy of individuals.

The passage of this bill marks the culmination of a decade-long effort to frame a data privacy law—an effort that has had many twists and turns. To talk more about this important piece of legislation and what it means for India and Indians, Milan is joined on the show this week by Rahul Matthan. Rahul is a partner in Trilegal’s Bengaluru office where he heads the firm’s telecom, media, and technology practice. Over the past decade, he has been intimately involved with India’s data privacy efforts as a lawyer, author, and technology expert. He is the author of several books, including the forthcoming, The Third Way: India’s Revolutionary Approach to Data Governance. Since 2016, he has written a weekly column for Mint called “Ex Machina.”

Milan and Rahul discuss the long and winding road that led to the passage of the data protection bill, the compromises struck along the way, and critics’ concerns about national security exemptions. Plus, the two discuss the debate over data localization and the evolution of an active, well-connected technology policy community across India.

Episode Notes:

Rahul Matthan, “Get on with data protection now that the law’s enacted,” Mint, August 15, 2023.

Rahul Matthan, “Companies must work hard to ensure data protection,” Mint, August 7, 2023.

Rahul Matthan, “The draft data privacy law surprises with its simplicity,” Mint, July 18, 2023.

Anirudh Burman, “Resisting the Leviathan: The Key Change in India’s New Proposal to Protect Personal Data,” Carnegie India, November 28, 2022.

India's G20 Triumph Sep 20, 2023

Show notes

On Saturday, September 9, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi surprised observers by announcing on Day One of the G20 summit in New Delhi that all 20 member nations had achieved consensus on the New Delhi G20 Summit Leaders Declaration.

The announcement capped nine months of frenzied activity which involved thousands of meetings, consultations, and side events associated with India’s G20 leadership. It also came just days after some negotiators warned that a consensus may be out of reach—due to continued disagreement over language condemning the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

To talk about the G20 summit—and what it means for India and Indian foreign policy—Milan is joined on the show this week by Ashok Malik. Ashok is a Partner at The Asia Group and Chair of its India Practice. He previously served as Policy Advisor to External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar and, between 2017 and 2019, speech writer and spokesperson for the President of India.

Milan and Ashok discuss the big deliverables from the Delhi summit, the meaning of the new India-Middle East-Europe Economic Corridor, and the striking alignment between the United States and India. Plus, the two discuss the growing influence of foreign policy on Indian domestic politics.

Episode Notes:

Prashant Jha, “On Modi’s foreign policy, here is what the Opposition gets it wrong,” Hindustan Times, September 14, 2023.

Ashok Malik, “The continuity constituency and Modi's re-election bid,” Economic Times, August 29, 2023.

[VIDEO] “G20 Summit 2023 India (with Ashok Malik),” CNN-News18, September 12, 2023.

“Ro Khanna on the U.S.-India Partnership,” Hindustan Times, September 13, 2023.

Ro Khanna on the U.S.-India Partnership Sep 13, 2023

Show notes

Ro Khanna is a Member of the United States Congress who has represented California's 17th congressional district since 2017. He also serves as co-chair of the Congressional Caucus on India and Indian Americans, and recently led a bipartisan delegation to India that coincided with India’s Independence Day. During their visit, the eight-member delegation met with business, tech, and government leaders in Mumbai, Hyderabad, and New Delhi.

To talk more about his visit—and his views on U.S.-India relations—Ro Khanna joins Milan on the show this week. The two discuss his visit to India, the impact his Indian grandfather had on his life, and the state of democracy in the country. Plus, Milan and Ro discuss cricket diplomacy, U.S. industrial policy, and what Democrats need to do to win the votes of the Asian American diaspora.

Episode Notes:

Ro Khanna, “The New Industrial Age,” Foreign Affairs, January/February 2023.

“The Next Chapter in U.S.-India Defense Ties (with Lindsey Ford),” Grand Tamasha, September 5, 2023.

Sumitra Badrinathan, Devesh Kapur, Jonathan Kay, and Milan Vaishnav, “Social Realities of Indian Americans: Results From the 2020 Indian American Attitudes Survey,” Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, June 9, 2021.

Arvin Alaigh, “A Reckoning for the Modi Democrats,” Dissent, December 23, 2020.

The Next Chapter in U.S.-India Defense Ties Sep 06, 2023

Show notes

After a long summer break, we are excited to be back with the tenth season of Grand Tamasha. To kick off our brand-new season, this week Milan sits down with the U.S. government’s point person on the U.S.-India defense relationship to discuss the next chapter in U.S.-India defense ties.

Lindsey Ford is the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for South and Southeast Asia. In this capacity, she serves as the principal advisor to senior leadership at the Pentagon for all policy matters pertaining to this vast region. Chief among her responsibilities is managing the day-to-day defense relationship with India.

Lindsey is no stranger to the world of U.S.-India relations, having worked extensively on this relationship during previous roles at the Brookings Institution, the Asia Society Policy Institute, and an earlier stint at the Pentagon between 2009-2015.

Milan and Lindsey discuss the historic June 2023 summit between President Biden and Prime Minister Modi, breakthroughs in U.S.-India defense co-production and co-development, and the new ways in which the U.S. and Indian governments are collaborating with industry, think tanks, and academics on defense innovation. Plus, the two discuss the emerging security architecture in the Indo-Pacific and the Quad’s agenda for the future.

Episode Notes:

“Reexamining America’s Bet on India (with Ashley J. Tellis),” Grand Tamasha, June 21, 2023.

[VIDEO] Ely Ratner and Lindsey Ford, “Building a More Resilient Indo-Pacific Security Architecture, Hudson Institute,” March 2, 2023.

The White House, “Joint Statement from the United States and India,” June 22, 2023.

Rudra Chaudhuri, Konark Bhandari, and Ashima Singh, “The U.S.-India Initiative on Critical and Emerging Technology (iCET): The Way Forward,” Carnegie India, January 24, 2023.

Rescuing the Indian Statistical System Jul 06, 2023

Show notes

Programming Note: This is the very last episode of Season Nine of Grand Tamasha. As is our usual, we are going to take July and August off to recharge our batteries. We will be back in September with our tenth season of podcasts, and we’re excited about the conversations we have planned for the Fall.

Some of our listeners may recall way back in February 2020—the month before the world came to a standstill—Milan sat down with the journalistPramit Bhattacharyato discuss the unfolding crisis in Indian economic data. Pramit returns to the show today to discuss a new report that he’s just published with Carnegie titled, “India’s Statistical System: Past, Present, Future.”

Pramit’s new report is the single-best resource on the trials and tribulations of India’s data machinery. It contains the kind of straight-ahead reporting and analysis that people have come to expect from Pramit, who writes the “Truth, Lies, and Statistics” column forMintand the “Simply Economics” column for theHindustan Times.

Milan and Pramit discuss why it is both the best and worst of times for data users in India, how India squandered its competitive advantage in statistical data, and just exactly what today’s data crisis means for the average Indian. Plus, the two discuss Pramit’s ideas for overhauling the system.

Episode notes:

“Pramit Bhattacharya on the Crisis in India’s Economic Data,”Grand Tamasha, February 12, 2020.

Arvind Subramanian, “India's GDP Mis-estimation: Likelihood, Magnitudes, Mechanisms, and Implications,” Harvard Kennedy School Working Paper, June 2019.

Pramit Bhattacharya, “How India’s Statistical System Was Crippled,”Mint, May 7, 2019.

Pramit Bhattacharya, “Make our statistics credible again,”Mint, January 3, 2022.

A Realistic and Resilient U.S.-India Partnership Jun 28, 2023

Show notes

Last week on the show, Milan sat down with the Carnegie Endowment’s Ashley J. Tellis to discuss his much talked about Foreign Affairs essay titled, “America’s Bad Bet on India.”

In that piece, Ashley argues that if U.S. policymakers are expecting India to come to America’s aid in the event of a military conflict with China, they would be well advised to keep their expectations in check. Ashley argues that such a military coalition is highly unlikely in the foreseeable future.

A month after Ashley’s piece was published, the scholar Arzan Tarapore penned a response in Foreign Affairs titled, “America’s Best Bet in the Indo-Pacific.”

Arzan, a Research Scholar at the Walter H. Shorenstein Asia-Pacific Research Center at Stanford University, joins Milan on the show this week to discuss why coalition warfare is the wrong benchmark with which to assess U.S.-India security cooperation.

Milan and Arzan discuss the policy differences between Delhi and Washington, the practical ways in which the United States and India can cooperate to constrain China, and the prospects of iCET (the U.S.-India Initiative on Critical and Emerging Technology). Plus, the two discuss the future of the Quad and how Australia fits into the budding U.S.-India partnership.

Episode notes:

“Reexamining America’s Bet on India (with Ashley J. Tellis),” Grand Tamasha, June 21, 2023.

Arzan Tarapore, “What the Quad could learn from AUKUS,” The Interpreter (blog), April 3, 2023.

Christopher Chivvis, “What Biden Wants From Modi’s State Visit,” Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, June 20, 2023.

“Pivotal States: What Direction for the U.S.-India Partnership (with Christopher Chivvis, Lisa Curtis, and Ashley J. Tellis),” Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, June 9, 2023

Arzan Tarapore, “India and the US gear up for strategic competition,” The Strategist, June 26, 2023.

Reexamining America’s Bet on India Jun 21, 2023

Show notes

In a few days, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi will arrive in Washington, D.C. to begin a historic state visit that is expected to further cement ties between the United States and India. Over the past two decades, this relationship has gone from awkward resentment during the Cold War to full-throated embrace after the year 2000.

But a new essay by Ashley J. Tellis in Foreign Affairs titled, “America’s Bad Bet on India,” warns that there are limits to U.S.-India cooperation and Washington would be wise to wake up to them. Ashley, who holds the Tata Chair for Strategic Affairs at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, joins Milan on the podcast this week to discuss his essay and his motivations for writing it.

Ashley and Milan discuss the bipartisan bet U.S. officials have made on India since the year 2000, the logic of “strategic altruism,” and the challenges facing the bilateral defense partnership. Plus, the two preview Modi’s state visit and discuss both its symbolic importance as well as it’s substantive significance.

Episode notes:

1. Ashley J. Tellis, “America’s Bad Bet on India,” Foreign Affairs, May 1, 2023.

2. “U.S.-India Relations, With Ashley J. Tellis,” The President’s Inbox (podcast), May 16, 2023.

3. Ashley J. Tellis, Bibek Debroy, and C. Raja Mohan, eds., Grasping Greatness: Making India a Leading Power (New Delhi: Penguin Viking, 2022)

4. Arzan Tarapore, “America’s Best Bet in the Indo-Pacific,” Foreign Affairs, May 29, 2023.

Exploring Caste in America Jun 14, 2023

Show notes

Later this summer, California could be first American state to ban discrimination on the basis of caste. California’s move, and the moves by universities, cities, and towns across the country, to raise issues of caste discrimination has generated a massive controversy that is roiling the Indian American community in the United States.

One reporter, the freelance journalist Sonia Paul, has been doggedly pursuing this story for years, even before it became a mainstream news issue. Sonia is an award-winning journalist, writer, producer and story editor based in Oakland, California, and she is the daughter of immigrants from India and the Philippines.

Sonia joins Milan on the show this week to talk more about her reporting and the state of caste in America. Sonia and Milan discuss the difficulties of reporting on caste in America, the coded ways in which discrimination often takes place, and the debates in the Indian American community over moves to add caste as a protected category. Plus, the two discuss the fierce contest over California’s draft legislation.

Episode notes:

1. Sonia Paul, “The hidden caste codes of Silicon Valley,” BBC, April 18, 2023.

2. Sonia Paul, “Trapped in Silicon Valley’s Hidden Caste System,” Wired, March 1, 2022.

3. “California Could Become the First State to Ban Caste Discrimination,” KQED “The Bay” (podcast), June 5, 2023.

4. Sumitra Badrinathan, Devesh Kapur, Jonathan Kay, and Milan Vaishnav, “Social Realities of Indian Americans: Results From the 2020 Indian American Attitudes Survey,” Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, June 9, 2021.

5. Maari Zwick-Maitreyi, Thenmozhi Soundararajan, Natasha Dar, Ralph F. Bheel, and Prathap Balakrishnan, Caste in the United States: A Survey of Caste Among South Asian Americans (Equality Labs, 2018).

6. Sonia Paul, “From Black Lives Matter, activists for India’s discriminated Dalits learn tactics to press for dignity,” The World, November 12, 2015.

7. Patrick Cox, “Which version of Indian history do American school students learn?,” The World, April 27, 2017.

8. Sonia Paul, "When Caste Discrimination Comes To The United States," NPR "Code Switch" podcast, April 25, 2018

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