Gov Innovator Podcast

Skill building: Identifying key skills and building them in an intervention, producing impacts into the future. That might include analytical thinking, delayed gratification delay or grit
Foot in the door: Designing the right intervention at the right time to help a child or adolescent through a period of risk or opportunity, such as interventions that keep young people from repeating grades.
Sustaining environments: Providing additional interventions that build on the gains of the initial intervention, essentially creating “recharging stations” to sustain initial gains.

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**Gov Innovator Podcast**

Insights for Results-Focused Leaders

Latest Episodes:

How results-driven contracting improved outcomes for Chicago’s most vulnerable: An interview with Lisa Morrison Butler, former Commissioner, Chicago Department of Family and Support Services – Episode #202 Dec 18, 2022
Too often, contracting is seen as a back-office function, even though many government programs are actually implemented with contracted service providers. In reality, contracting — and contracting reforms — can be a key driver of better results in human services, including for the most vulnerable families and individuals.

We discuss specific steps in results-driven contracting with Lisa Morrison Butler, the former Commissioner of the Chicago Department of Family and Support Services (DFSS) and now the Executive Vice President and Chief Impact Officer at Results for America. She served as Commissioner of DFSS — the largest funder of human and social services in the city — for more than five years across two mayoral administrations. Under her leadership, she led an organizational transformation aimed at achieving greater overall impact, including overhauling the department’s approach to contracting.

The five main steps in DFSS’s path to results-driven contracting that we discuss are:

Build **consensus** around the need for change related to contracting.

Choose a **pilot** **division**.

Develop a **calendar** to roll out reform across the department.

Build clear **goals** and new expectations into each new RFP, among participating divisions.

Adopt **active contract management**, including developing learning cohorts that met quarterly.

**Learn more:**

To hear other Gov Innovator podcast interviews on results-driven contracting, click this link.

Read Lisa’s “Innovator Interview” with the Harvard Kennedy School’s Government Performance Lab on her efforts to improve outcomes at Chicago’s DFSS.

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**Using mindfulness practices for greater self-awareness and self-improvement: Rabbi Marc Margolius, Senior Program Director, Institute for Jewish Spirituality – Episode #201** Apr 28, 2022
When we think about what skills leaders need to be successful — such as making good decisions, regulating their emotions and stress, and forming strong and healthy relationships with others — an important foundation for those skills is mindfulness. Our guest today has deep expertise in helping people cultivate self-awareness and mindfulness in order to (to paraphrase his own words) help them become the person they’re meant to be in the world, hopefully growing towards that day by day. Rabbi Marc Margolius is the Senior Program Director at the Institute for Jewish Spirituality. He hosts IJS’s daily mindfulness meditation sessions and teaches an online program called “Awareness in Action” designed to cultivate character through mindfulness.

Rabbi Margolius presents the three step process used by IJS:

First, adopt a stance of **non-judgmental curiosity** by observing one’s own mind and reactions. This can be done by simply pausing.

Next, be aware of having the **possibility of choice**, realizing that we have a range of options in responding to a stimulus.

And finally, choose the **value or set of values** that one wants to use in responding.

Together, these steps can help us to have a *response* rather than a reaction. The approach draws at times from Jewish spiritual practice, but it can be useful for anyone, whatever one’s faith background or connection (or not) to a religion.

A **transcript** of our conversation is available here.

**Related resources:** An article co-authored by Andy Feldman and Rabbi Margolius in *Government Executive* on the value of mindfulness practices is here. The magazine also interviewed the co-authors for their podcast, available here.

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**Career reflections from an evidence leader: An interview with Naomi Goldstein, Administration for Children and Families, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services – Episode #200** Mar 31, 2022
To celebrate our 200^th interview, we are joined by one of the most respected people within the evidence and evaluation field, Dr. Naomi Goldstein, to share reflections on her 21-year career at the Administration for Children and Families (ACF) at the U.S. Department of Human Services.

Dr. Goldstein (@NaomiGoldstein1) is the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Planning, Research, and Evaluation at ACF. She will retire from federal service this week after a 21-year tenure at ACF, including becoming Director of the Office of Planning, Research and Evaluation (OPRE) in 2004 and Deputy Assistant Secretary in 2015. Beyond those important career achievements, it is her kindness, humility, candor and commitment — and, I would add, all with a sense of humor — that have made her such a valued colleagued and friend to so many over the years.

A **transcript** of our conversation is available here.

**Learn more:**

Recent OPRE blog post by Dr. Goldstein: “How Do I Love My Job? Let Me Count the Ways“

Previous podcast interviews:

Why evaluation policies are useful to results-focused federal agencies (with Molly Irwin)

Strengthening evaluation capacity within agencies

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**Colorado’s nation-leading practices in using evidence to guide budget decisions: An interview with Sara Dube, Director, Results First Initiative, The Pew Charitable Trusts – Episode #199** Mar 17, 2022
Colorado is a leader in the U.S. in terms of using evidence to guide state budget decisions, so that dollars flow to programs that are effective. It’s also a leader in terms of building evidence to better learn what works in key program areas. For example:

State agencies are required by the governor’s budget office to show the evidence behind requested budget changes.

In doing that, agencies use a framework called the “Evidence Continuum” that describes the stages of building and assessing program information.

Also, the legislature now requires agencies to use consistent definitions of evidence-based programs in their budget requests.

And Colorado is one of only a handful of states to have a dedicated fund to support program evaluations.

A recent report by the The Pew Charitable Trusts’ Results First initiative, titled “Colorado’s ‘Evidence Continuum’ Promotes Efficient, Effective Public Programs,” discusses the state’s progress in these areas. To get an overview, we are joined by one of its authors, Sara Dube who directs the Results First initiative at the The Pew Charitable Trusts.

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**How state tuition-free college programs are spanning political divides: An interview with Michelle Miller-Adams, Senior Researcher, Upjohn Institute – Episode #198** Mar 08, 2022
An important area of innovation within higher-education policy in recent years has been tuition-free college policies — also known as Promise Programs — designed to make college more affordable and accessible. Our previous podcast interview with Professor Elizabeth Bell of Florida State University provided an overview of the topic. In this new interview, we focus further on state-level programs, including the fact that Promise Programs have spread to states of very different political leanings.

To do that, we are joined by Dr. Michelle Miller-Adams (@mmilleradams). She is the co-director of the Upjohn Institute’s place-based research initiative and is a national expert on tuition-free college initiatives. Her latest book is *The Path to Free College: In Pursuit of Access, Equity, and Prosperity*.

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**How Promise Programs are expanding college access, affordability, and degree attainment: An interview with Elizabeth Bell, Florida State University – Episode #197** Mar 01, 2022
Tuition-free college policies have become a cornerstone of policymakers’ efforts to expand college access, affordability, and degree attainment. The movement began at the local level with initiatives such as the Kalamazoo Promise, but has since been taken to the state level, with 21 states currently operating Promise Programs.

To learn more about these important policies and the evidence behind them, we are joined by someone who has examined them closely, Dr. Elizabeth Bell (@PoliSciBell). She is an Assistant Professor at the Askew School of Public Administration and Policy at Florida State University and also serves as an Academic Affiliate for the Office of Evaluation Sciences within the federal government.

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**Insights about building credible evidence in social policy: An interview with David Anderson, Vice President of Evidence-Based Policy, Arnold Ventures – Episode #196** Nov 23, 2021
Arnold Ventures launched its evidence-based policy initiative in 2015 in large part to increase the number of social programs with strong evidence behind them. To do that, the team funds randomized controlled trials of programs in social policy whose prior evidence has shown the potential for sizable effects on educational achievement, earnings, and other important outcomes. To date it has funded over 100 RCTs — shown here — and disseminates findings from Arnold Ventures-funded RCTs as they become available. Programs backed by especially promising evidence, whether funded through Arnold Ventures or not, are highlighted on its Social Programs that Work website; discussions on research reporting and transparency are highlighted on its Straight Talk on Evidence (@NoSpinEvidence) website.

To hear lessons from that work and also broader observations from someone working to advance evidence-based policy for almost two decades, we are joined by David Anderson. He is the Vice President of Evidence-Based Policy at Arnold Ventures and previously served as the Vice President of the Coalition for Evidence-Based Policy.

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**How Minnesota’s impact evaluation unit supports evidence-based budgeting: An interview with Weston Merrick, Minnesota Management and Budget – Episode #195** Nov 16, 2021
Minnesota has been identified by several good-government organizations as one of the leaders in the nation on evidence-based policymaking. The Pew Charitable Trusts, for example, has noted that “Using evidence-based policymaking has enabled Minnesota…to provide better outcomes for residents, [and] improve the way research and evidence inform the budget and policymaking processes….”

One important piece of that story is how the state launched an Impact Evaluation Unit within Minnesota Management and Budget (MMB). The Impact Evaluation Unit helps lead the development of program inventories used for evidence-based budgeting and also conducts rigorous program evaluations to help the state learn what works.

To learn more, we are joined by Dr. Weston Merrick (@WestonMerrick). He is a senior manager at MMB and leads the Impact Evaluation Unit.

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**Insights on evidence use from Ohio’s Department of Education: An interview with Heather Boughton, Results for America – Episode #194** Nov 07, 2021
Ohio’s Department of Education is one of the leading state agencies in the U.S. in terms of its focus on helping and encouraging school leaders to use evidence-based educational strategies and supports. For the past almost four years, Dr. Heather Boughton (@hrosemaryb) helped lead those efforts. She’s the former director of the Office of Research, Evaluation & Advanced Analytics within the Department. She served in the department for almost 13 years before starting a new role last month as Director of Education Policy Implementation at Results for America.

In our interview, she discusses the mission of her former office and then provides three pieces of advice based on her experience: 1) Use evidence to create a cycle of continuous improvement; 2) Understand that using evidence can be messy; and 3) See the use of evidence as a team effort. She also provides advice for state education departments that are earlier on the path to doing this type of work.

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**Developing and using agency performance plans: An interview with Elizabeth Funsch, ArundelStat Manager, Anne Arundel County in Maryland – Episode #193** Nov 04, 2021
Anne Arundel County, Maryland, has a population of just under 600,000 and is south of Baltimore and East of Washington D.C., with the county seat being Annapolis. In 2018, under County Executive Steuart Pittman, the county launched a performance-focused office called ArundelStat. One of the key initiatives of the office so far has been developing performance plans for 30 county departments. Those plans are being used by top executive leadership within the county to track departmental performance trends and focus on and tackle priority performance challenges.

To learn more, we’re joined by Elizabeth Funsch. She is the founding manager of ArudelStat and, prior to that, served as a senior performance manager in Prince George’s County in Maryland.

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**Three keys to a successful agency evaluation office: An interview with Susan Jenkins, Director of the Office of Performance and Evaluation, Administration for Community Living, HHS – Episode #192** Oct 20, 2021
What does it take to be a successful evaluation office within a public agency? Three things that are important are being trustworthy, being engaging, and being relentless, explains Dr. Susan Jenkins.

Since 2016, Dr. Jenkins has been the Director of the Office of Performance and Evaluation at the Administration for Community Living (ACL) at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. She also teaches program evaluation at American University and, prior to ACL, served on the evaluation staff of the Peace Corps.

ACL’s mission is to maximize the independence, well-being, and health of older adults, people with disabilities, and their families and caregivers. Both ACL and Dr. Jenkins have been recognized by Results for America for their leadership in creating a culture of evidence-based decision making.

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**Lessons from New Hope for reducing poverty today: An interview with Kali Grant, Georgetown University, and Julie Kirksick, former New Hope Executive Director – Episode #191** Oct 14, 2021
The New Hope Project was an anti-poverty program in the 1990s in Milwaukee that offered a simple but powerful pledge: If participants were willing to work full-time, they would not be poor. The program used a wage subsidy, support for child care and health insurance, and (if participants needed it) short-term subsidized employment to achieve that pledge.

While the program ended more than 20 years ago, its lessons, including from a five-year randomized evaluation by MDRC and from longer-term research on impacts for children and youth, are especially important today as the nation struggles to tackle racial and economic inequalities exacerbated by the pandemic.

A new brief published by Georgetown’s Center on Poverty & Inequality reexamines the lessons from New Hope and we’re joined by two of its authors. Julie Kirksick (@kerksick) served as New Hope’s Executive Director from 1997 to 2008 and as Associate Director prior to that. Since New Hope, she has held senior roles in human services agencies in both Wisconsin and Colorado. And Kali Grant (@kaligrant) is a Senior Policy Analyst at the Georgetown Center on Poverty and Inequality.

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**Evidence-based budgeting in New Mexico: Part 2 interview with Charles Sallee, Deputy Director, Legislative Finance Committee, New Mexico – Episode #190** Oct 10, 2021
New Mexico state government is a leader in the use of evidence, lead by its Legislative Finance Committee (LFC) that has been a catalyst for evidence-based budgeting, including through its participation in the Pew MacArthur Results First Initiative. In this part 2 of our interview with Charles Sallee, the Deputy Director of the Legislative Finance Committee, we get an update on progress. That includes:

Sharing an example of how credible research influenced policymaking on a key issue in New Mexico, pre-school education.

How an important piece of good-government legislation — the New Mexico Evidence and Research-Based Funding Requests Act of 2019 — has spurred the development of program inventories in high-priority policy areas that support evidence-based budgeting.

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**Launching LegisSTAT in New Mexico: Part 1 interview with Charles Sallee, Deputy Director, Legislative Finance Committee, New Mexico – Episode #189** Sep 14, 2021
Last month, New Mexico’s Legislative Finance Committee (LFC) did something that that possibly no other legislative committee in the U.S. has done to date: It launched a “PerformanceStat” initiative. As listeners to this podcast will know, the PerformanceStat process was pioneered in New York City for policing and then expanded to other government settings, as with Baltimore’s CitiStat and Maryland’s StateStat. The approach involves ongoing, data-driven performance reviews between leadership and departments or divisions.

New Mexico’s LFC adapted PerformanceStat to a legislative setting, dubbing it “LegisSTAT.” To learn more, we’re joined by Charles Sallee. For more than a decade he has served as the LFC’s Deputy Director.

**Learn more:** An op-ed in *Governing*, written by Charles Sallee, LFC Chair Patricia Lundstrom and Andy Feldman discusses the piloting of LegisSTAT in New Mexico.

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**Leading successful change initiatives: An interview with John Kotter, professor emeritus at the Harvard Business School and founder of Kotter International – Episode #188** Jun 01, 2021
John Kotter (@JohnPKotter) is one of the most respected thinkers on the topics of leadership and change. He is professor emeritus at the Harvard Business School, a widely-read author, and the founder of Kotter International, a management consulting firm.

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Many of you might know his book *Leading Change*, which is a classic on the topic and describes eight steps for successfully leading change initiatives. Those steps include: 1) Create a sense of urgency; 2) Build a guiding coalition; 3) Form a strategic vision and initiatives; 4) Enlist a volunteer army; 5) Enable action by removing barriers; 6) Generate short-term wins; 7) Sustain acceleration and 8) Institute change.

His new book, coming out this month, is called Change: How organizations achieve hard to imagine results in uncertain and volatile times. It covers many topics, including how to make strategic planning more successful and impactful, as we discuss in the interview.

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**Insights from Idaho’s Office of Performance Evaluations: An interview with Rakesh Mohan, Director – Episode #187** May 09, 2021
Idaho’s Office of Performance Evaluations (OPE) was created in 1994 and is a nonpartisan, independent office that serves the Idaho legislature by conducting evaluations of state agencies and programs, as well as studies of key policy issues. With its staff of seven evaluators, plus its director, OPE’s mission is to promote confidence and accountability in state government.

To learn more, we’re joined by Rakesh Mohan (@RakeshMohanEval). He’s been the director of the office since 2002. OPE was the recipient of the American Evaluation Association’s Outstanding Evaluation Award and Rakesh himself was the recipient of the Outstanding Practitioner Award from the American Society for Public Administration.

**Web extras:** We discuss additional details about OPE and its work, including the use of contractors to support the work [click here] and the steps from project selection to report creation [click here].

**Learn more:** A longer interview with Rakesh Mohan hosted by James Pann is available here.

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**Five questions public agencies should ask to put their logic models to work: An interview with Cynthia Phillips, former Acting Chief Evaluation Officer, National Science Foundation – Episode #186** May 04, 2021
A logic model is a detailed visual representation of an organization or program that expresses the organization’s theory of change. It’s useful for getting a clear and shared understanding of how an office, division, program or initiative works. But what important questions should an organization ask once its created a logic model? To find out, we’re joined by Dr. Cynthia Phillips, who recently retired from the National Science Foundation where she served as the acting chief evaluation officer. She’s also the author of several publications on logic models, including co-authoring the book *The Logic Model Guidebook*.

Our interview focuses on five questions that organizations can ask, using the logic models they have created:

Are we doing the right work?

Are we doing the work right?

Are our products or services accessed and used as intended?

What difference are we making?

What will it take to sustain our work? And, relatedly, what have we learned?

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**Three cognitive biases that can influence decision makers’ use of evidence about what works: An interview with Ariel Kalil, University of Chicago – Episode #185** Apr 15, 2021
What leads decision makers to decide to implement or scale up a program? Research evidence may be one factor, but, as we know, lots of other factors can play in as well. Three of those factors are what are called cognitive biases, including:

confirmation bias

status quo bias

bandwagon bias

Understanding those biases — which have been well-researched in the past, but are newly being applied to the context of evidence use by decision makers — can help public leaders make better decisions. To learn more, we’re joined by Dr. Ariel Kalil (@ariel_kalil). She’s a developmental psychologist and a professor at the University of Chicago’s Harris School of Public Policy and directs the school’s Center for Human Potential and Public Policy and co-directs the Behavioral Insights and Parenting Lab. She’s also an adjunct professor in the Norwegian School of Economics in Bergen, Norway.

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**Insights from Tennessee’s Office of Evidence and Impact: An interview with Christin Lotz, Director – Episode #184** Mar 25, 2021
Tennessee’s Office of Evidence and Impact was created in 2019 by Governor Bill Lee. The office works with the Governor’s office and with Tennessee’s executive agencies to use data and evidence to help decision makers invest in programs that work for Tennesseans. To learn more about the office’s work and what lessons it provides for other states, we’re joined by its director, Christin Lotz (@ChristinLotz). She’s served in state government for more than 15 years and also serves on the recently-created Advisory Committee on Data for Evidence Building launched by the U.S. Dept. of Commerce.

**Additional resources:**

The budget forms that includes questions about evidence are available from Tennessee’s Department of Finance and Administration website here. Archived copies are also available here and here.

The evidence framework is available from the Office of Evidence and Impact website here. An archived copy is also available here.

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**Boosting student achievement with high-dosage tutoring: An interview with Carly Robinson and Matthew Kraft, Brown University – Episode #183** Mar 17, 2021
A new policy brief examines the research evidence behind tutoring and what design principles for tutoring have shown to be important for boosting K-12 student achievement. The report is titled *Accelerating Student Learning with High-Dosage Tutoring*. It’s coauthored by Dr. Carly Robinson, Dr. Matthew Kraft and Dr. Susanna Loeb of the Annenberg Institute at Brown University, as well as Dr. Beth Schueler of the School of Education and Human Development at the University of Virginia.

To learn more, we’re joined by two of the brief’s authors. Carly Robinson (@Carly__Robinson) is a postdoctoral research associate at Brown University and Matthew Kraft (@MatthewAKraft) is a professor of education and economics at Brown. Both are former public-school teachers.

**Learn more:** The brief is part of a series called EDResearch for Recovery produced by Brown, UVA and Results for America that’s designed to provide K-12 education decision makers and advocates with credible evidence help students respond to and recover from the COVID-19 pandemic.

**Related initiative:** The newly launched National Student Support Accelerator provides comprehensive resources for those interested in implementing high-impact tutoring.

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**Launching a behavioral insights community of practice within a public agency: An interview with Melissa Leal, Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment – Episode #182** Feb 24, 2021
Governments at all levels are increasingly using research findings from behavioral economics and other behavioral sciences to improve program and agency outcomes. These interventions and program changes draw on how people process information and make decisions and can often be implemented quickly and at little cost.

One way to help support the use of behavioral insights within an agency is to create a community of practice. To learn more, we are joined by Melissa Leal, a change management specialist at the Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment (CDPHE). In 2019 she led the formation of a community of practice around behavioral insights within the the department.

**Related interview:** CDPHE is using the Behavioral Insights Team’s EAST framework in its current project, aimed at improving the health of its employees. The EAST framework was discussed on the podcast here.

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**How to communicate so that busy people respond and take action: An interview with Todd Rogers, behavioral scientist and professor, Harvard Kennedy School – Episode #181** Feb 03, 2021
What evidence-based strategies can you use to more effectively craft communications with practical purposes, so that busy people respond and take needed action? We get insights from Dr. Todd Rogers (@Todd_Rogers_), a behavioral scientist and professor of public policy at the Harvard Kennedy School. His work applies behavioral science insights and methods to understand important social challenges and to develop interventions to mitigate them.

Among the topics he’s explored is how to improve written communications with practical purposes. His recent op-ed in the Boston Globe, co-authored with Jessica Lasky-Fink, is called “Write shorter messages.” As a preview of their insights, they find that keeping communications short, simple and skimmable makes it more likely that people will respond or take action.

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How the California Policy Lab is helping state and local agencies tackle homelessness, poverty and other key policy challenges: An interview with Janey Rountree and Evan White, Executive Directors – Episode #180 Jan 25, 2021
The California Policy Lab (@CAPolicyLab) was launched in January 2017 with a mission to create partnerships between researchers at two of California’s leading universities — UCLA and UC Berkeley — and California’s state and local government agencies. The goal: to generate scientific evidence that solves California’s most urgent problems, including the issues of homelessness, poverty, crime, and education inequality.

To learn more, we’re joined by Janey Rountree, the Executive Director of the California Policy Lab at UCLA, and Evan White (@EvanBWhite) the Executive Director of the California Policy Lab at UC Berkeley. They work in close collaboration with the Lab’s faculty directors, Till von Wachter and Jesse Rothstein.

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**Lessons from HUD about building evidence on important social policy issues: An interview with Calvin Johnson, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Research, Evaluation and Monitoring at HUD – Episode #179** Jan 15, 2021
How can public agencies build credible evidence about what works to help move the needle on important social policy challenges? It’s often a multi-step, iterative process. A good example is the efforts across the past two administrations by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) – in particular, their efforts to help support public housing residents to access higher education.

This example has a specific policy focus — higher education access – but the steps that HUD has taken to build evidence provides lessons for any public agency, whether federal, state or local, that is working to tackle important policy issues and using evidence to inform their decision making.

To learn more, we’re joined by Dr. Calvin Johnson. He’s the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Research, Evaluation and Monitoring within the Office for Policy Development and Research (PD&R) within HUD. He is a leader within the federal evidence community and a fellow of the National Academy of Public Administration.

**Additional information:** Read about HUD’s work with the Office of Evaluation Sciences to design low-cost behaviorally informed interventions — letter, in this case — to encourage FAFSA enrollment [link].

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**How federal agencies can use IPAs to bolster evidence capacity and help implement the Evidence Act: An interview with Dayanand Manoli, Professor, Georgetown University – Episode #178** Jan 08, 2021
The Foundations for Evidence-Based Policymaking Act (Evidence Act) was enacted in early 2019 and has led a wide range of federal agencies to take new steps in building and using evidence, including developing learning agendas. The Act, however, didn’t come with new funding, so resources are likely a constraint in many agencies in doing this type of work. It’s one reason why the topic of researcher-practitioner partnerships — including using Intergovernmental Personnel Act agreements (aka IPAs) — is an especially timely one. It’s also a valuable topic for agencies not covered by the Evidence Act that want to better use evidence and data to inform decisions.

To learn more, we are joined by Dr. Dayanand Manoli. He’s an economist and a professor at the McCourt School of Public Policy at Georgetown University and has collaborated with the IRS on several research projects, as we highlighted on this podcast in 2016. Recently, he co-hosted, with Kathy Stack, a workshop at the Partnership for Public Service on the topic of IPAs within federal agencies.

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**The role of North Carolina’s Office of Strategic Partnerships: An interview with Jenni Owen, Director of Strategic Partnerships, North Carolina – Episode #177** Jan 05, 2021
North Carolina’s Office of Strategic Partnerships was launched at the end of 2018 under Governor Roy Cooper with a mission to enhance partnerships between state government and North Carolina’s research and philanthropic sectors. As its website notes, “This includes elevating the State’s internal capacity to use and generate evidence in its policy and programmatic functions.” The office is situated within the state’s Office of State Budget and Management (OSBM), within the Governor’s Office. OSBM’s priorities include data-driven and evidence-based decision making.

To learn more, we are joined by the office’s founding director, Jenni Owen (@jenniowen). She was previously the Governor’s Policy Director and, before that, was on the faculty and the director of policy engagement at the Sanford School of Public Policy at Duke University.

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**Colorado’s performance management strategy under Gov. Hickenlooper: An interview with David Padrino, former Chief Performance Officer, Colorado – Episode #176** Dec 22, 2020
The State of Colorado under the previous Governor, John Hickenlooper, had a multifaceted performance-improvement strategy that included performance management, operational improvements and talent development, among other elements. That work continues today under current Governor Jared Polis. We look back at the previous administration to draw lessons for other states. We’re joined by David Padrino. He served under Governor Hickenlooper as Colorado’s first Chief Performance Officer and as the former Chief of Staff to then-Lieutenant Governor Donna Lynne. Today he is the Chief Recovery Officer at the Colorado Attorney General’s Office.

**Web extras:** Mr. Padrino discusses how the efforts have continued and advanced in the new administration, under Governor Polis. [click here]. He also discusses the connections and differences between performance measurement / management and evidence-based policy. [click here]

**Learn more:** Colorado is featured in Results for America’s *Blueprint for Delivering Results in State Government*, released in 2020. Also see the related Gov Innovator interview with Henry Sobanet about Colorado’s lean initiative.

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**King County, Washington’s Equity and Social Justice Strategic Plan: An interview with Arun Sambataro, King County – Episode #175** Dec 16, 2020
In King County, Washington, under Executive Dow Constantine and the County Council, equity and social justice has been an important focus of the county’s work. That includes the launch in 2015 of an Office of Equity and Social Justice and the creation of its strategic plan, designed to help the county become a place where race and place are eliminated as predictors of prosperity and quality of life for the residents.

To learn more, we are joined by Arun Sambataro, the Senior Equity and Social Justice Policy Advisor within the Office of Equity and Social Justice.

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**Investing in what works at the federal level: An interview with Jed Herrmann, Vice President for State and Federal Policy Implementation, Results for America – Episode #174** Dec 09, 2020
The nonprofit Results for America has been an important advocate of — and catalyst for — evidence-based policy and decision making over the last decade. It recently released two new resources: The 2020 Invest in What Works Federal Standard of Excellence (click to see the federal standard and the press release), as well as a similar What Works Standard of Excellence for states (click to see the state standard and the press release). Each report examines best practices in results-focused government and then highlights and tracks the progress of leading federal agencies and states against those practices.

To learn more about the findings and where we are today with evidence-based policymaking on the cusp of a new presidential administration, we are joined by Jed Herrmann (@HerrmannJed). He is the Vice President for State and Federal Policy Implementation at Results for America. He previously served at both the federal and local levels, including as a Senior Advisor to the CEO at the Corporation for National and Community Service and Chief of Staff and Deputy Commissioner at the New York City Department of Consumer Affairs.

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**Insights from nearly a decade of CountyStat: An interview with Dave Gottesman, CountyStat Manager, Montgomery County, Maryland – Episode #173** Nov 24, 2020
Montgomery County, located just north of Washington D.C. is a leader in the use of performance management, including through its CountyStat initiative, drawing on the model of other PerformanceStat efforts. Its reputation for results-focused government continues today under County Executive Marc Elrich, who has been in that role since 2018.

To learn more about the county’s journey with data-driven decision making and what lessons we can draw for other jurisdictions, we’re joined by Dave Gottesman. He’s been the CountyStat manager since 2012. He also co-leads the Mid-Atlantic Stat Network, a group of PerformanceStat staff from the region that convenes periodically to share their insights. Dave was previously on the podcast in 2013.

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**Unlocking the power of big data to catalyze evidence-based policy: An interview with Amy O’Hara, Georgetown University – Episode #172** Nov 18, 2020
Administrative data – in other words, big data produced by public agencies and programs – is a valuable tool for program evaluation, research and analysis that can help improve government performance and tackle our nation’s pressing challenges. How can we enable more qualified researchers and government program managers to security and more easily access those data? We get insights from Dr. Amy O’Hara (@amy__ohara), a national expert on improving secure, responsible data access for research and evaluation.

Dr. O’Hara is a Research Professor in the Massive Data Institute and Executive Director of the Federal Statistical Research Data Center at the McCourt School for Public Policy at Georgetown University. She was previously a senior executive at the U.S. Census Bureau where she founded the Center for Administrative Records Research and Applications (CARRA), the Bureau’s administrative data unit.

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**Creating a culture of experimentation within organizations: An interview with Stefan Thomke, Harvard Business School – Episode #171** Jul 03, 2020
What insights can public leaders gain from leading companies about building a culture of experimentation? To find out, we’re joined by Stefan Thomke, the author of the new book *Experimentation Works: The Surprising Power of Business Experiments.* Dr. Thomke is the William Barclay Harding Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School and has published widely on the topic of the management of innovation.

As background to our interview, a growing number government agencies and jurisdictions are taking an experimental approach to driving better results. For example, in making operational improvements to programs, they’re choosing an approach or strategy by rigorously testing different approaches and seeing which one works best. (That’s in contrast to choosing an approach based on best guesses or anecdotes or the opinion of the most senior person in the room.) For examples at the federal level, for instance, see those catalogued by the Office of Evaluation Sciences. An experimental mindset, however, is still nascent in most of government. Looking to leading examples and lessons learned from public and private organizations–including the companies studied by Dr. Thomke–can help more government leaders build an experimental culture.

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**Using behavioral insights to help recruit diverse police candidates: An interview with Elizabeth Linos, University of California, Berkeley – Episode #170** Jun 08, 2020
Attracting a police force from diverse backgrounds is one important step in ensuring that citizens are well served by their police departments and have trust in the police. But what steps can police departments take that are effective in achieving that goal?

The Behavioral Insights Team, in conjunction with the What Works Cities Initiative, set out to work with more than 20 police departments to build credible evidence on that topic, including running randomized trials to test out different recruiting messages and other steps. The results are described is the report *Behavioral Insights for Building the Police Force of Tomorrow*.

To learn more, we are joined by Dr. Elizabeth Linos (@ElizabethLinos) who was one of the authors of the report. She is a professor of public policy at University of California, Berkeley, and is the former vice president and head of research and evaluation at the Behavioral Insights Team in North America.

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How the Small Business Administration became a leader in evidence-based decision making: An interview with Jason Bossie, Director, Office of Performance Management, SBA – Episode #169 Apr 02, 2019

Over the last two years, the Small Business Administration has made laudable progress in building and using evidence in order to learn what works and help programs improve. That includes launching an evaluation office and a chief data officer role within the CFO’s office, as well as creating a learning agenda to identify priority research questions from its bureaus.