For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Dear Black Girls: How to Be True to You

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The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

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A’ja Wilson on How Authenticity Is Your Superpower Feb 21, 2024

Women's sports are having a major moment right now, with basketball superstars like A'ja Wilson leading the charge. Considered one of the best WNBA players to ever grace the court, A'ja is using her towering influence to encourage not only young black girls, but all women who have felt the need to change who they are to fit in. A’ja fought to be herself every step of the way in her journey of becoming a G.O.A.T. in the WNBA.

In this uplifting conversation, A'ja Wilson opens up about the challenges she faced as a young black woman trying to be her authentic self. From an anecdote about confronting racism in 4th grade to the influential women who instilled self-love during her journey to the top, A'ja shares her playbook for empowerment with raw honesty. She discusses the motivation behind writing her new book "Dear Black Girls" and the importance of defining yourself instead of letting others do it for you.

If you've ever felt the need to shrink yourself to fit in or been made to feel "other," A'ja's wisdom will inspire you to embrace all that makes you beautifully unique.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I think the biggest thing that is surprising to me is really how much work we put in. Other people see the end results as basic glory. They see that and they're like, 'Oh my God, they make it look flawless and just easy. But the most surprising thing is how many times we cry together, how many times we pray together, how many times we just come into the gym. It's like we don't have it, but we still find a way to dig it out.” - A’ja Wilson

“I think the biggest thing I always like to say is (I even had it on my shoes); if you can see her you could be her.” - A’ja Wilson

“The self-accountability that [my role models] instilled in me allows me to (instill) that into someone else. I can be that leader for my teammates and hold them accountable because I want you all to do the same for me” - A’ja Wilson

“Young girls all the time are like, ‘What do I need to do to do this?’ I'm like, ‘Girl, just keep doing what you're doing. That's your path. I don't want you to think your path is going to look like mine.’ I think once you get past that, that's when that self-worth comes in. That's when you're like, ‘Okay, I'm good at where I am.’” - A’ja Wilson

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen!

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

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Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A Glimpse Into the End of Life with Hospice Nurse Hadley Vlahos Feb 14, 2024

As we close out our For the Love of Facing Your Fears series, we're diving headfirst into a topic that we will all face at one point in our lives (hopefully later than sooner); our very own expiration dates. It’s one of humanity’s most universal yet daunting fears, and we’ve got a compassionate and experienced guide to walk us through the kinds of things we might wonder about, and the beautiful unexpected moments that can accompany our final days. Hadley Vlahos is a hospice nurse whose life experiences and work have provided her with profound insights into the final chapter of our lives. Hadley opens up about her personal journey through struggles and grief, her entry into nursing as a calling, and her perspectives on the beauty that can be found even in our final moments. Her book, "The In-Between: Unforgettable Encounters During Life's Final Moments," encapsulates powerful stories from the bedside of the dying, some of which she shares with us, including the tranquility of the in-between and the serendipitous moments bringing peace to those passing. With over 1.4 million followers captivated by her TikTok narratives, Hadley’s perspective takes the edge off the many worries we may have about the end-of-life process. Join us for a truly poignant exchange that affirms life's beauty—and its beautiful conclusion.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Most people think [death] is very sudden. There was a recent study that over 80% of what we're shown on TV is very violent and sudden. In reality, the way I compare it is to birth; just like how our bodies know how to give birth and they know how to grow a baby, the majority of time with death, our bodies do know how to die.” - Hadley Vlahos

“For someone to say, ‘You know what, I'm going to I'm going to go home and I'm going to be with my family and I would like to remain comfortable.’ I think that there's a lot of power in that, and I don't see it as giving up at all. I see it as taking your fate into your own hands.” - Hadley Vlahos

“I wish more people would just talk to each other about the end. Surprisingly, even though someone's in hospice, I still see a lot of hesitancy to talk about the end. When they can do that, I find that patients feel a lot more peace around the end and what is coming.” - Hadley Vlahos

“What am I doing today that I would be excited to be telling my hospice nurse about one day? And that has given me an incredible drive and passion for life that I just totally didn't expect.” - Hadley Vlahos

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The In-Between: Unforgettable encounters during life’s final moments by Hadley Vlahos

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen!

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

[BONUS] Jen Hatmaker Book Club ft. No Cure For Being Human and Other Truths by Kate Bowler Feb 09, 2024

Calling all book lovers, we’ve got another great entry in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club this month, and we’ve also got a good friend of Jen’s sitting in the author’s seat–none other than the amazing Kate Bowler. Kate walks us through her highly personal medical journey, as told through No Cure For Being Human and Other Truths. Kate shares the profound realization that her life depended on becoming an empowered participant in her healthcare rather than a passive recipient. As she waded through her stage 4 cancer diagnosis, the endless visits to the doctors, along with many tests and treatments, she reflected on how her willingness to be initially compliant toward the process led to a delayed choice of asserting herself toward receiving better care and choices toward her treatment. Kate and Jen also delve into the cultural fabric of American aggressive individualism, which preaches that achievements are solitary pursuits and any failure is a personal shortcoming. In a world where visible piety and the power of positive thinking are often conflated with divine approval, they dissect the harmful myths that set us up for inevitable disillusionment. With unguarded honesty, Kate sheds light on how the pressure to continuously climb the ladder of success can blind us to the presence of divine companionship in our darkest times.

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Guest’s Links:

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Bonus Series: Quarantine Queens and Kings ft. Kate Bowler

Everything Happens with Kate Bowler

Blessed: A History of The American Prosperity Gospel by Kate Bowler

No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear)

Focus on the Family

Jen’s Evolving Faith Sermon

Run Towards the Danger by Sarah Polley

Women Talking

Acceptance: A Memoir by Emi Nietfeld

Tell Me Everything: A Memoir by Minka Kelly

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Dr. Rick Hanson on Confrontation as a Path to Well-Being Feb 07, 2024

We’ve got another empowering episode in our Facing Your Fears series, and boy, do we have a fear that hits close to home for a lot of us – confronting those tough conversations we'd rather dance around than dive into. If the thought of confrontation has you squirming in your seat, you’re in good company. But what if we flipped the script and viewed these moments of truth-telling as acts of honor, steps towards healing and improvement?

Jen invites the insightful Dr. Rick Hanson, celebrated psychologist, acclaimed author, and speaker extraordinaire, to dissect our dread of difficult chats. Dr. Hanson is on a mission to transform confrontation into a finely honed skill that fosters lasting well-being and better relationships. His wisdom will not only challenge your perceptions but provide you with the practical tools to embrace these crucial conversations with confidence.

Don't miss out on this transformative discussion that could redefine how you approach confrontation, making your connections healthier, and you, happier.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Research shows that relationships are made from interactions. The gradual weight of interactions, for better or worse, over time shapes the relationship, and interactions are built from little turn-taking back and forth.” - Dr. Rick Hanson

“It's so important, these foundations to care for yourself deep down. What are your aims in your relationships, and can you build up your sense that you deserve people to treat you well? That's good. If you have choices and they don't treat you well, it's your right to shrink the size of the relationship.” - Dr. Rick Hanson

“[When communicating with difficult people] know what you want. Then, as much as you can, try to boil it down to something you can ask for that's clear and specific if that's what you really want. Then second, ask for it. Find a way to say what you want.” - Dr. Rick Hanson

“If you're going to have that conflict, get prepared; talk about it with some people. Get some advice. Write out keywords or sentences or phrases or just kind of work out a rough draft to clarify things.” - Dr. Rick Hanson“We don't have total control over the love that we receive. However, we do have control over the compassion, kindness, friendliness, respect, and love that we flow outward. So getting in touch with the heart is a neurologically, and biologically grounded way to help yourself feel less scared before you go into confrontation.” - Dr. Rick Hanson

“Interactions often go sideways when they speed up. Simply, notice in your mind when you start accelerating and you start talking faster. You must deliberately slow down, sit back, and exhale.” - Dr. Rick Hanson

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Mother Nurture by Dr. Rick Hanson

Nonviolent Communication by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD and Deepak Chopra

Making Great Relationships by Dr. Rick Hanson

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Hanson’s Website

Dr. Hanson’s Facebook

Dr. Hanson’s Twitter

Dr. Hanson’s Instagram

Connect with Jen!

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ashton Applewhite Unravels Harmful Attitudes Toward Aging Jan 31, 2024

As we continue our series on facing our fears, we introduce a fear that many of us may not talk about comfortably, but in reality, we are all facing; the fact that we are aging. In case this is something that moves you into a state of deep denial, or perhaps you are employing a world of efforts (including for-profit products and practices) to stave off the inevitable progression, or even if you are just taking it all in stride, we all are subject to what the world at large has to say about it and—mostly–it’s not positive. A pervasive ageist attitude infiltrates the media we consume, our own friend groups, and even what we tell ourselves consciously and subconsciously about aging. We come by it naturally, though–with deeply ingrained stereotypes and discriminatory practices that extend everywhere from the workplace to the bedroom. Our guest this week shares how she went from being an apprehensive boomer to becoming a pro-aging radical as she dismantles myths and debunks the portrayal of older people as societal burdens; with years of research under her belt, she dreams of an aging-friendly world. Ashton Applewhite is the author of “This Chair Rocks–A Manifesto Against Ageism,” and she makes it her life’s work to expose ageist behavior, and educate us all as to how we can stop giving aging a bad rap. Jen and Ashton take an eye-opening look at ageism as a form of bias as unacceptable as any other, and give us actionable steps to ignite “age pride,” keeping in mind that aging is an integral part of our life journey, not a condition to be cured or concealed. If you’re fretfully staring down the next decade of life with fear and denial, consider the possibility that being stressed about aging actually can cause the very things we fear about aging. Ashton sums it up like this; “If you learn about aging, you will be less afraid. That knowledge and information is going to confer all kinds of protection about aging as well as you possibly can.”

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

"Almost everything I thought I knew about what it was going to be like to be significantly older was way off base or flat out wrong, or not nuanced enough.There are plenty of legitimate reasons to worry about the years ahead, but our fears are so much out of proportion to reality. We never hear the other side of the story. I mean, how come no one actually wants to go back to their youth?" - Ashton Applewhite

“When we blame everything on age, then that in itself becomes a hugely profitable industry; all the supplements, all this anti-aging, eternal life stuff--it does not work, and it's not good for you physically or psychologically.” - Ashton Applewhite

“If younger women were friends with older women, they would see how coming into our own is a source of enormous power and satisfaction. If more of us were friends with younger women, we wouldn't have this envy.” - Ashton Applewhite

“All prejudice operates to pit people against each other. And if we're squabbling, we're not going to challenge these larger forces.” - Ashton Applewhite

“Aging is not something sad that old people do. Aging is something we embark on the day we are born and if you get the memo, you can avoid stepping on this hamster wheel of fear and denial.” - Ashton Applewhite

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

This Chair Rocks by Ashton Applewhite

Let’s End Ageism - Ashton’s TED Talk

Old School Anti-Ageism Clearing House

Yo, Is This Ageist - Ashton’s Blog

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen!

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Tapping into Mental Strength to Overcome Fear ft. Amy Morin Jan 24, 2024

We all have things that scare us. And it’s not because we’re doing life wrong; fear, in and of itself, is a normal emotion. So then what do we do with it? That's really what this series, For the Love of Facing Your Fears, is all about. Today’s guest will be walking us through some strategies on facing our fears in a healthy way by showing us what habits mentally strong people employ in their lives. Amy Morin is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author and she's devoted her whole career to the exploration of what it means to be mentally strong. Her TEDx talk, “The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong” has been lauded as one of the most impactful TEDx videos to date. Amy’s personal journey of loss juxtaposes with Jen’s recent experience of starting over again after 26 years of marriage–and they both discuss how fear played into their lives during these periods of grief and loss. Amy gives actionable, easy to employ behaviors that can set us on the course toward conquering our fears–no matter how debilitating.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“It's so easy to get caught up in that idea of ‘I don't want my life to be different because I don't want to make it any worse and if it's going to be different, it's going to be hard to adapt to.’” - Amy Morin

“Our fear meters in life are often super faulty. We think if something feels scary, we shouldn't do it and then we don't. I lived a lot of my life like that. Well, that's the perfect recipe for depression, because you live a really safe life and you don't go out there and figure out how exciting things can be and how much you're capable of doing.” - Amy Morin

“When our fear runs really high, our intelligence runs really low. You want to balance that and take notice of how scared you feel right now? Fear will cause you to overestimate the likelihood that everything's going to go wrong. It will cause you to underestimate your own capabilities so you’ve got to raise your logic and balance out that fear a little bit.” - Amy Morin

“Taking back your power is all about just stepping back and realizing these are my choices. This is my day, my life. How do I want to spend it? Do I need to set a boundary? Do I need to at least change my language so that I'm not saying other people are forcing me to do something, as opposed to just recognizing I don't want to do this, but I'm going to do it anyway?” - Amy Morin

“Mentally strong people don't feel the world owes them anything.” - Amy Morin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Secret of Becoming Mentally Strong - Amy Morin’s TEDx Talk

13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Doby Amy Morin (Article)

13 Things Mentally Strong People Don’t Do (Book)

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Moving from Insider to Outsider: Derek Webb’s Peaceful Disruption Jan 17, 2024

Isn’t it fun to be part of the in-crowd? Where you can connect with people who are of like minds and spirits, where everyone seems to be headed in the same direction? But what if you start having nagging questions as an insider that don’t seem to get resolved, and even worse, are met with disdain or fear from other members of your group? This can be a scary place for so many of us. For the purposes of our conversation today–we’re talking about when it happens in religious spaces. For years, singer/songwriter Derek Webb was very much on the “inside” of what was happening in Christendom as a top selling, award winning Christian artist, songwriter and worship leader. It took a few disruptions to his own life that sent him down the road to evaluating his faith, his beliefs and how he wanted to move forward with the new information he’d gained. Now, decidedly an “outsider” who tries to still take up space in the Christian zeitgeist to potentially model a different way of living, Derek has gone on to record solo albums and also work with artists that aren’t typical to Christian music–like drag queen Flamy Grant—with whom, incidentally, he attended the Gospel Music Dove Awards in 2023 (and who also had a number one Christian song pop up on the charts), with the intention of making people who are Christian and LGBTQ+IA feel less alone. In this episode, Jen and Derek compare their journeys as “peaceful disruptors,” what it cost them and what they gained in the process

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“So now here I am, 20 years [after going solo] and I'm spoiled into thinking that I can write songs about things no one else is writing songs about, and that's kind of my thing now.” - Derek Webb

“I'd been so obsessed on thinking about, obsessed on my language about God, that I forgot to apply it to the way I behave in the world, the way I treat other people, which is ethics. And I realized, 'Oh no, how did I miss that?' As I stand before you as the ringing symbol, the clanging gong when I've got all the right words and none of the love, none of the fruit.” - Derek Webb

“I had to rebuild at almost 40, I had to rebuild a whole life and reckon with the fallout, at least my part of the responsibility of some real hurt. I caused a lot of people who I love to hurt, the people I love more than anybody in the world. And it humbled me.” - Derek Webb

“Flamy Grant and Semler were not the first two queer artists to have number-one albums and singles on the Christian music charts. It has happened so many times over the years, but by people who are closeted and people who live in tremendous fear in that space because they know they will be immediately rejected, excluded, marginalized, out.” - Derek Webb

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Caedmon’s Call

Aaron Tate’s Website

Second Baptist Church

She Must and Shall Go Free - Album by Derek Webb

Wedding Dress by Derek Webb

Grace Point Church

The Jesus Hypothesis

Boys Will Be Girls Music Video

Grace Semler Baldridge

Flamy Grant Instagram

Drag Queen at Christian Music Awards Sparks Backlash (Newsweek Article)

Guest’s Links:

Derek’s Website - https://www.derekwebb.com/home

Derek’s Facebook - http://facebook.com/derekwebb

Derek’s Instagram - http://instagram.com/derekwebb

Derek’s TikTok - http://tiktok.com/@derekwwebb

Derek’s Twitter - http://twitter.com/derekwebb

Derek’s YouTube - http://youtube.com/user/derekwebb

Derek’s Patreon - http://patreon.com/derekwebb

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Vagina Bible: Debunking Myths and Misinformation Around The Female Body Ft. Dr. Jen Gunter Jan 10, 2024

Do you ever feel like you don’t have all the answers and information you need around your very own body? Are there beliefs or “facts” you might have learned that maybe aren’t actually centered around truth or science? Perhaps you’ve entered various seasons of your life as a female (menstruation, fertility, childbirth, hormone fluctuation, perimenopause, menopause) where you’ve felt like your concerns were dismissed or you weren’t given the tools, knowledge or treatment to help you navigate these season as well as you’d like. Whether you avidly seek knowledge about your body, or you’re bumping up against walls in what has been, historically, a lopsided research culture where male health has been more highly prioritized, we’ve got a guest today who is determined to correct that inequity with scienfitic and experiential information, research and active destigmatization. Dr. Jen Gunter is an obsetritican gynecologist and a bestselling author (The Vagina Bible, The Menopause Manifesto) who has made it her goal in life to “fix the internet” regarding information about women’s bodies and correcting the misinformation that runs rampant there; long held myths that cause fear, stress and even shame around our female phsyiology. Dr. Gunter debunks common misconceptions around our periods, our hymens (fyi, it’s not a “freshness” seal), synthetic hormones, menopause symptoms and more. Bottom line: you deserve to know about your body, and this conversation opens the door to finding true and accurate information that will help dismiss the fears you may have around all the seasons of your female health experience.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I think the average high schooler probably graduates knowing more about frog biology than human biology. No shade to animal physiology. It's super important. However, high school should also be teaching you more practical information as well as things to advance you academically.” - Dr. Jen Gunter

“People deserve to know how their body works.” - Dr. Jen Gunter

“If you don't have that foundation of the menstrual cycle and you don’t know how it all works, it's harder to understand what's going on with menopause” - Dr. Jen Gunter

“Basically, menopause is puberty in reverse." - Dr. Jen Gunter

“If you could only do one intervention for a healthy menopause, it would not be estrogen. It would be exercise. Exercise touches every domain of every single thing that's going to be on your bothersome list. Exercise improves sleep, exercise reduces dementia. Exercise reduces heart disease. The only thing that it doesn't help is hot flashes.” - Dr. Jen Gunter

“Every single hormone that you get, whether it's a pharmaceutical estrogen or it's something from a compounding pharmacy, comes from the exact same plant. It’s all from the same source.” - Dr. Jen Gunter

“You're more than your menstrual cycle. You're awesome whether you have estrogen or not. It has nothing to do with your awesomeness. It really doesn't.” - Dr. Jen Gunter

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Guardian Article about Dr. Jen Gunter

The Vagina Bible by Dr. Jen Gunter

Menopause Manifesto by Dr. Jen Gunter

Jensplaining - Dr. Jen Gunter’s Amazon Prime Series

2020 NAMS Media Award from the North American Menopause Society Recipients

“Why can’t we talk about periods” - Dr. Jen Gunters 2020 Ted Talk

Body Stuff with Dr. Jen Gunter

Blood: The Science, Medicine, and Mythology of Menstruation by Dr. Jen Gunter

The Vajenda- Dr. Jen Gunter’s Substack Newsletter

The Preemie Primer: A Complete Guide for Parents of Premature Babies--from Birth through the Toddler Years and Beyond by Dr. Jen Gunter

Ensure Meal Replacement

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Gunter’s Website

Dr. Gunter’s Twitter

Dr. Gunter’s Facebook

Dr. Gunter’s Instagram

Connect with Jen!

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the Love of Peace: Exploring Our Senses as a Pathway to a More Peaceful Life ft. Gretchen Rubin Jan 03, 2024

How often do you stop and think about how well your sense of smell is working? Or how well you’re hearing? When was the last time you really thought about your vision and how it’s impacting the way you interact with the world? We’re grateful today for a friend of the show who’s returning to remind us that when we tune into our body and senses, we can start to shape our sensory world to best fit who we are. And when we are comfortable in that world, peace is more easily attained. Gretchen Rubin has been studying happiness and human nature for over a decade. Her book The Happiness Project spent more than two years on the New York Times bestseller list, and she's been featured in numerous media outlets, including The New York Times, Oprah's SuperSoul Sunday, and Good Morning America. Her latest book, Life in Five Senses, is a thought-provoking exploration of how we experience the world around us through sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch.

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Thank you to our Sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“There's so much power in the Five Senses, and it's everything from evoking memories to increasing your productivity to feel.” - Gretchen Rubin

“We can go through our bodies to get to our minds.” - Gretchen Rubin

“It's this mindfulness, this getting back into our body; we start to tune into these things and then we start to be able to shape our sensory world to suit ourselves.” - Gretchen Rubin

“You can turn to your senses and find new creative ways to tap into your senses to help you draw closer to other people.” - Gretchen Rubin

Guest’s Links:

Website: https://gretchenrubin.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gretchenrubin/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/GretchenRubin

Twitter: https://twitter.com/gretchenrubin

Gretchen on FTL Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/sg/podcast/small-steps-to-a-happier-life-gretchen-rubin/id1258388821?i=1000426816646

Life in Five Senses book: www.barnesandnoble.com/w/life-in-five-senses-gretchen-rubin/1142221169

Happiness Project book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-happiness-project/

Better Than Before book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/better-than-before/

Outer Order, Inner Calm book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/outer-order-inner-calm/

The Four Tendencies book: https://gretchenrubin.com/books/the-four-tendencies/

Happier with Gretchen Rubin Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/happier-with-gretchen-rubin/id969519520

Neglected Senses quiz: https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-five-senses-quiz/

Therapy dough: https://www.healthline.com/health/diy-aromatherapy-playdough-for-stress

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

Four Eyes Media: https://www.iiiimedia.com/

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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This Year, Every Little Thing Counts: Jen’s 2023 Recap Dec 27, 2023

Wrapping up another amazing and somewhat wild year here on the For the Love Podcast. For this special episode, Jen is flying solo to share her thoughts on what 2023 meant to her, what pinnacles were met, what didn’t go so well, and the many things add to the gratefulness list. From celebrating long time friendships and new friendships, to milestones with her kids, to being in a relationship as a “girlfriend,” to going through perimenopause and becoming gluten free, Jen recounts the blessings and the challenges 2023 brought to the table. And she gives us a peek into the process of writing for her brand new book that you won’t want to miss. For those of you who are struggling to find things to be grateful about over the last year, we’re here for you too. If you’re sludging through the remainder of the year, digging out of it a spoonful of dirt at a time, we’re here to remind you to keep going. Everything you're doing, every teeny little moment holds within it grace or hope or strength or outright joy, and every single moment matters. And you, our listener, matter to us. On our gratitude lists, you are at the top–and we look forward to more good, hard, and worthwhile stories to share with you. Thank you for making this show a vibrant hub and a soft place to land for us all.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I'm just trying to figure out what it means to do good in the world and be a good neighbor and leave something of a loving legacy.” - Jen Hatmaker

“The older we get, the more I think I am realizing that our adult friendships is a love story. It is a love story as important and true and profound as any romantic story or a marriage. It's just as precious.” - Jen Hatmaker

“Guys, I know this is earth shattering, this is groundbreaking information I'm about to tell you, but apparently it is good for our bodies to move in any way— exercise and strength training and core work. Apparently that's good for us. Also, it's highly linked to the reduction of perimenopausal symptoms.” - Jen Hatmaker

"I just feel proud that my life crumbled to such shreds, but it didn't break me. I still was smart and I was still here, I was still alive and I still had goodness. And the fact that I could travel alone and enjoy my own company and not be self-conscious just felt like a stake in the ground, like, 'okay, all right, I'm doing okay!' And I had it in me to survive this and to even recover." - Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Sarah Bessey’s Instagram

Kristen Howerton’s Instagram

Sarah Goodfellow’s Instagram

Jamie Wright’s Instagram

Tara Livesay’s Instagram

For the Love Podcast: Season 44: Letters from MeCamp 2022

Jen Hatmaker Cruise

Ruth Bader Ginsburg: In Her Own Words

Come As You Are: Revised and Updated: The Surprising New Science That Will Transform Your Sex Life by Emily Nagoski

The Jen Hatmaker Book Club

For the Love Podcast Season 40: ELEPHANTS IN THE ROOM PART 5: UNDOING THE STIGMA OF MENOPAUSE WITH CHERYL BRIDGES JOHNS

Tyler Merritt’s Instagram

Dream Again Tour

MeCourse

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

The For the Love Podcast is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BONUS] Jen’s Brave Journey Toward Releasing Her Inner Lion - A Story on The Meditative Story Podcast Dec 22, 2023

Focusing on all things related to peace this holiday season, we’re pleased to present a special bonus episode from The Meditative Story Podcast, featuring our very own Jen Hatmaker. In this episode, Ryan, host of the Meditative Story Podcast, guides the listener with meditative prompts and music while Jen tells a story from her days growing up in church where she witnessed concrete power dynamics play out between men, women, husbands and wives. Jen speaks to how doubtful she is that she’ll ever be allowed to have a true voice in the community she loves so much. As we follow her years-long journey into leadership, she shares the realization she finally came to; we can all be powerful in many ways, and not just in the ways we've been taught. Grab a little zen and reflection during these busy days—with Jen and this special episode from our friends at the Meditative Story Podcast.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“There may be someone in your life who expresses themselves in ways that you feel you never could. Through clothes. Their vibe. What was it about them that excited you? What would it be to allow yourself a bit of their energy?” - Ryan from the Meditative Story Podcast

“We all grow up with certain templates. Society or tradition gives us ideas about what we're capable of and how much power we are allowed to have. So we take our inner alliance and tell ourselves, well, that's just how it has to be. But when we dare to really take up space. When we learn from liberated, confident people in our lives, we find that we're capable of more than we ever knew.” - Jen Hatmaker

“Esther [from the Bible] not just a heroine or a fairy tale princess in a castle. She's a real person. This stirs something inside me. Have I been seeing myself as only one dimensional? My heart is beating. There's a distant rattling in me. I feel that inner lion I've kept at bay my whole life. And I want to let that lion out. I want to lead. I want to take up space. I want to be a writer.” - Jen Hatmaker

Guest’s Links:

Meditative Story Podcast Website

Instagram

Facebook

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

For the Love is a production of Four Eyes Media, presented by Audacy.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

For the Love of Peace: What Will You Leave Behind This Year? Ft. Father James Martin Dec 20, 2023

In our ongoing pursuit of peace at the end of the year, Jen sits down with Father James Martin, one of America's most beloved spiritual leaders and a New York Times bestselling author. Known for his thought-provoking books "The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything" and "Learning to Pray," Jen and Father Martin talk about the premises in Father Martin’s new book "Come Forth, the Promise of Jesus's Greatest Miracle," which tells the iconic story of the raising of biblical Lazarus from the dead in a way we guarantee you’ve never heard before. If you’ve been in therapy for any time at all, you might have been advised to let go of things that don’t serve you, and lo and behold, this ancient story of Jesus calling Lazarus from the tomb has wisdom and inspiration for today, and promises to leave you pondering on what you might leave behind in your own tomb for a new life.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“That's one of the reasons I write books to just say to people; being on a path is a human thing and you can read about it if you don't want to talk about it. Other people are going through it and have been through it way before you.” - Father James Martin

“The Gospels should be disorienting. God wants to shake us up a little bit. And there's a great line from the Catholic activist and writer Dorothy Day that 'God comforts the afflicted but also afflicts the comfortable,' which I love, and it should be disorienting. It should shake us up. Jesus was pretty disorienting.” - Father James Martin

"If you have difficulties with one or another way of interpreting the Gospels, you have to say, look-- Jesus constantly is with the poor. It's not ambiguous. 'Blessed are the poor.' I mean, you can't get any more blunt than that, but it's hard for us because it kind of challenges our status quo." - Father James Martin

“Until we can let go of things that prevent us from loving God and getting closer to God, we won't be at peace as much as we could be.” - Father James Martin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

The Jesuit Guide to Almost Everything by Father James Martin

Learning to Pray: A Guide for Everyone by Father James Martin

Transgender People Can Be Baptized Catholic Reuters Article

Mary Karr

The Seven Storey Mountainby Thomas Merton

Jesuits

Six Jesuit Martyrs in El Salvador

WWJD (Wiki)

Augustine of Hippo

Come Forth, the Promise of Jesus's Greatest Miracle by Father James Martin

Guest’s Links

For the Love Episode with Sal & Im

Connect with Jen!

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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For the Love of Peace: Finding Peace Within Our Grief: Sal & Im’s Tips for Good Mourning Dec 13, 2023

In our ongoing pursuit of peace during the holidays, we’re tackling something this week that we might forget others are facing during the holidays (or perhaps we are trying to trudge through ourselves); grief. Everyone's grief journey is unique, but during a season where “joy” is being pushed 24/7, our grief can feel like it’s 10 times its normal size as we struggle to “show up” in the ways we usually do during the holidays. Our guests this week are here to remind us of several important things, including; it’s okay to grieve during the holidays, and it's perfectly okay to take it slow, to pause, to rest. There's no "right" way to grieve.

And that’s why we’re grateful to have some return visitors to the show, the hosts of the Good Mourning Podcast - Sal and Im. Sally Douglas and Imogene Carn met in 2019 after their mothers suddenly passed away just months apart. Because of their shared grief experience, they met in a grief group and decided to launch a podcast together. They know that grief is intense. It hits you physically, emotionally, spiritually. And even during the holidays, during what should be happy moments. The community they’ve created around the topic of grieving brings people together during what can be a really lonely time and reminds them, they’re not alone. There are others out there who know exactly what you're going through. And it's okay to reach out, to seek help, and to take care of your mental health.

Sal and Im give us coping tools, show us how to establish boundaries when we’re grieving and also remind us; the pain does lessen over time. This is your journey, and you get to decide the pace. It's not a race. It's a process. So, take it one day at a time. You're doing just fine.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“The festive season is a time when there can be a lot of pressure to put on a brave face and to be happy and joyful. But if you are experiencing any type of loss, it's really hard, it can be really lonely and it can really amplify the things that you are missing. It's tough. I think just give yourself that permission to feel and know that you don't have to put on a brave face all the time.” - Sally Douglas

“It's really important to honor wherever you're at and try not to judge yourself. If you feel like you want to slow down or you just want to sleep for an entire day, even if it's Christmas Day, honor that and just let yourself be wherever you are in that moment without judging yourself.” - Imogen Carn

“We hear a lot from grievers in our community that the second year is harder than the first year. And that can take a lot of people by surprise because we anticipate that all the firsts are going to be harder, but it takes a long time to even process such a significant loss that's happened in your life.” - Imogen Carn

“It's a tough job supporting someone you love who is in deep pain and I think often we just want to fix them and we can't. We offer up all these cliches and platitudes to try and make them feel better. If there's anything that you take away from this conversation, please try to avoid saying platitudes.” - Imogen Carn

“I volunteer every Christmas morning at a lunch for people who are homeless. It's giving back, but it’s also something that's outside of you and your grief and it's a way to meet people. It's a way to connect, it's a sense of purpose that can be a really good thing to do if you are struggling. Maybe it's volunteering an hour of your time and you might be surprised at how that does help.” - Sally Douglas

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Good Mourning by Sally Douglas and Imogen Carn

The Golden Bachelor

Guest’s Links:

The Good Mourning Podcast

Connect with Jen!

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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For the Love of Peace: You Deserve Time To Rest with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith Dec 06, 2023

Are you one of those people that says “I’ll rest when I’m dead?” We can relate. As busy people–partners, parents, career drivers, caretakers and a host of other hats we wear, rest seems like an elusive and sometimes impossible task–especially during the holidays. To kick off our new series, For the Love of Peace, we’re here to tell you–you need and deserve rest. And lest you think rest is just getting 8 hours of sleep at night (wouldn’t we all love that), it’s more. We need emotional, creative, physical and mental rest, just to name a few. The stats are real; when we don’t rest we have increased cortisol levels, which then add to inflammation, which then add to every type of metabolic disorder that’s out there–from high blood pressure to cancer, to stroke, diabetes and more. It’s obviously important to figure out how to fix this rest deficit–but how? There is already a shortage of time for our overloaded to-do lists, not to mention being there for family, friends, work and exercise (if we even have time to fit that in). Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith has spent her career as an internal medicine physician, looking at the ways different kinds of rest are the little levers we can pull that renew our bodies, brains and souls. And good news–some of them only take 5 minutes to fit into our lives. When we put these rest practices into our lives, we avoid burnout, health issues and depression. Before you get to the end of seeing your own value to take care of yourself, consider Dr. Saundra’s advice and begin to respect the place that rest has in your life. By allowing it to sustain you, you’ll experience other areas of life much more joyfully.You Deserve Time To Rest with Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“When we put all of our buckets into sleep, we're in essence canceling out all of the other things I just mentioned because you can't get creative rest with your eyes closed in the bed, and you can't get emotional rest in the bed with your eyes closed. There are certain types of rest that you cannot hope to accomplish restoring with simply sleeping.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith

“If you're someone who has a tendency to do excessive multitasking–you have 15 to 20 tabs open on your computer, you're jumping from one thing to the next, or you're in and out of your inbox all day long–multitasking has a tendency to train the brain not to recall things because why should it have to recall something if it can just open up another tab?” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith

“High levels of sensory input can lead to sensory overload syndrome. A lot of us don't recognize our body's response. It's just a natural response to sensory overload. It's no different than if you have a two-year-old and you take them to a birthday party, they're good the first hour, but then like an hour and a half later they're screaming their head off or they're banging their feet on the ground– they’re experiencing sensory overload.” - Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Restorasis - https://www.restorasis.com/

Sacred Rest; Recover Your Life, Renew Your Energy, Restore Your Sanity by Dr. Saundra Dalton-Smith - https://amzn.to/46BqUU2

Rest Quiz - https://www.restquiz.com/quiz/rest-quiz-test/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://www.drdaltonsmith.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drdaltonsmith

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrSaundraDaltonSmith/

Twitter - https://bit.ly/47RTySa

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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For the Love of Therapy: Two Friends Compare Notes On Therapy: Jen and Kelly Nov 29, 2023

We’re bringing a close to our series on therapy, and we couldn’t be happier to have Kelly Corrigan with us to have a candid conversation with Jen around their thoughts on therapy, including when it first entered their awareness, and now, in a more enlightened age, how the next generation has more access to therapeutic help. Even as recently as 20-30 years ago, therapy was not talked about a lot in public. For Jen and Kelly, they didn’t see it modeled from their parents, it wasn’t mentioned in their church circles, and only earth shattering situations seemed to require it. But as they look back, they realized there were people in their lives who were likely touched by a host of mental health issues–like panic attacks, depression, anxiety–and they usually suffered in silence while others wondered why they were so “moody” or “different.” Now that therapy is enjoying its day in the zeitgeist, we can all benefit from the openness around mental health that is evolving daily. Kelly’s a dear friend of Jen’s and has been on our show numerous times–winning the coveted title of most appearances on our pod! Besides offering wonderful conversation and amazing insight here, Kelly is the host of her own podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, and is the author of several amazing books including Tell Me More, Glitter and Glue, and The Middle Place. She also hosts a show called “Tell Me More” for NPR, and she and Jen discuss the value of the statement “tell me more” when relating to others about our deepest thoughts and feelings.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

"In suffering there's this mistaken idea that you are lonely in your suffering--that you're alone in that people don't know. All that reassurance when we say, 'Got that, yep. I had a thing.' It makes it undeniable that no one is uniquely afflicted, and to remove that from suffering is to lighten it." - Kelly Corrigan

“The fact is that I am deeply attached to my people and their happiness. It matters to me above all else, and if the only way not to feel that is to detach, then I'm not signing up. This means that when I'm feeling worried, it means I'm crazy about you.” - Kelly Corrigan

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Tell Me More Stories About the 12 Hardest Things I’m Learning to Say by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Tell-Me-More-Stories-Learning/dp/0399588396/

Glitter and Glue: A Memoir by Kelly Corrigan - https://www.amazon.com/Glitter-Glue-Memoir-Kelly-Corrigan/dp/0345532856/

The Middle Place by Kelly Corrigan - https://bit.ly/49Gsxmt

For the Love of Conversations - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-43/

Tell Me More with Kelly Corrigan - https://www.pbs.org/show/tell-me-more-kelly-corrigan/

Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast

American Utopia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Utopia_(film)

Guest’s Links:

Kelly’s Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/

Kelly’s Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en

Kelly’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/corrigankelly?lang=en

Kelly’s Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/kellycorriganauthor/

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

https://www.hazelden.org/store/author/626?Earnie-Larsen

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For the Love of Therapy: Freedom From Codependency with Melody Beattie Nov 22, 2023

We’re back with some more therapeutic goodness as we approach the tail end of our therapy series with another fire episode! Awareness around mental health, trauma, dysfunctional family systems and more has been coming into the national awareness on a bigger level over the last 10 years. But back in 1986, the concept of codependency was really new. And unless you were deep into studying sociology or psychology or seeing a therapist yourself back then (also something that wasn’t as widely accepted), Melody Beattie’s book, Codependent No More, gave words to the masses who never had a way to describe these types of relationships in their lives. Codependency can worm its way into our lives—the definition being; those imbalanced relationships in our lives where one person enables another person’s self-destructive behavior (like addiction, immaturity, or even irresponsibility). It’s a bit insidious for those who don’t know what it looks like, and for so many, Melody’s book was a resource to help free themselves from something they may not have even recognized in their own lives. 35 years later, it’s still shining a light on those situations. Melody comes in with a scalpel to cut away to this very precise way of behaving and relating to another that is cloaked in good intentions and self-righteousness but is actually ruining our relationships. And fun fact, we were the very first podcast Melody has ever been on! Last year, she celebrated a new edition of her book honoring 35 years of its impact. Melody and Jen walk through how to recognize what codependency is and how it might be a part of your life and your relationships—which are the first important steps toward making an enormous change for the better.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Until I understood my codependency, I didn't really feel like I had a life. I was just responding to others wherever I went.” - Melody Beattie

“Codependency is being so obsessed with other people that that's all we can see and so out of touch with ourselves that we don't even see that anymore.” - Melody Beattie

“Seeing ourselves is probably the bravest yet most painful thing we're ever asked to do in this lifetime. Seeing ourselves every day for the rest of our lives, instead of focusing on the other person and figuring out what they need to do to be better, to make them happier, to live better lives, all the things that we really should be doing for ourselves, but nobody ever ever told us.”- Melody Beattie

“The key to codependency is the victim story. Somewhere underneath everything, there is a victim story and we're just simply writing the next page or the next chapter of it every time we interact with someone.” - Melody Beattie

Melody’s Links: Website: https://melodybeattie.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/authormelodybeattie/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/writermelodybeattie/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/melodybeattie

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

For the Love episode with Dr. Brene Brown: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/getting-vulnerable-with-dr-bren%C3%A9-brown/id1258388821?i=1000391341377

Earnie Larson Books:

Sharon Stone’s biography: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-beauty-of-living-twice-sharon-stone/1137456964

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

*original episode broadcast previously on the For the Love Apple Premium Podcast Channel

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Jen’s Favorites: 7th Annual Christmas Gift Guide Nov 15, 2023

It’s that time of year again, and we’re back with another *fire* gift guide for all your giving needs this season. And not only are we showcasing amazing and thoughtful gift finds, every gift we feature gives back as well! This year, we’re partnering with Ten Thousand Villages to present a beautiful array of artisan products. Ten Thousand Villages is a global maker to market movement that addresses economic injustice. We love to shop with intention, and Ten Thousand Villages gives us that window into ethically-sourced, handcrafted wares so that our dollars empower makers all around the world. Join Jen and her daughter Sydney as they walk us through their hand picked favorites from Ten Thousand Villages, and also offer an exclusive discount to you–our beloved podcast audience. Happy Holidays from Team Jen!

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Ten Thousand Villages

Use this link to shop with code JENHATMAKER to save 15% throughout the whole store! - https://jenhatmaker.com/giftguide/

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

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For the Love of Therapy: Wellness Doesn’t Come From a Product, It Comes From Within: Dr. Pooja Lakshmin Nov 08, 2023

In this latest installment of our For The Love of Therapy series, we delve into a timely discussion on mental wellness with a focus on genuine self-care. Our guest, Dr. Pooja Lakshmin, a renowned psychiatrist and advocate for women, offers fresh insights that urge listeners to break free from the superficial beauty and wellness industry's narrative that is steadily being pushed at us through all kinds of media, but in a dizzying fashion on social media, in particular. Steering the talk away from quick-fix solutions, Dr. Lakshmin illuminates the essence of true self-care, which, in her research, links to four major chambers rarely associated with this concept. From the importance of saying 'No' when overwhelmed, to understanding that self-care is more than just a beauty regimen, she reminds us that wellness comes from within. Dr. Lakshmin, an accomplished writer for the New York Times and founder of the Gemma community, also shares insights from her book, 'Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included)'. Join us for this enlightening conversation and let's start redefining what wellness truly means.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Chime | Visit chime.com/forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“We have to talk about the systems, the social structures that have gotten us to this place where the expectation for a woman, a mom to feel better is this very condescending, ‘well just go to a yoga class, just pour your bubble bath and a glass of wine and there… you'll feel better.’ I find that to be condescending at best, manipulative at worst.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin

“Real self-care is an internal process. It brings you closer to yourself. It's a verb. It's not a noun.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin

“Guilt is just there all the time when it comes to boundaries and when it comes to compassion too; how we talk to ourselves.“ - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin

“Therapy is this cozy little corner where you can be with yourself and be curious.” - Dr. Pooja Lakshmin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included) by Dr. Pooja Lakshmin

Audre Lorde

Bell Hooks

Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself - by Melody Beattie

For the Love Podcast episode featuring Brené Brown

For the Love Premium Bonus Podcast episode featuring Melodie Beatty

Gemma

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Website

Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Twitter

Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Instagram

Dr. Pooja Lakshmin’s Facebook

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

It's On Me: Accept Hard Truths, Discover Yourself and Change Your Life by Dr. Sara Kuburic

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For the Love of Therapy: Are You Happy? Dr. Sara Kuburic Wants Us To Stop Lying To Ourselves and Take Ownership of Our Choices Nov 01, 2023

It’s time for this week’s podcast therapy session and we’ve got another great therapist in our “office” as part of our For the Love of Therapy series. Dr. Sara Kuburic is an existential psychotherapist, author and the force behind The @Millennial.Therapist account on Instagram. Dr. Kuburic believes that each of us is a free and responsible agent who determines our own development through acts of our will. Though this isn’t always a popular view to take, as we often look to outside forces to blame for our unhappiness, Dr. Kuburic wants us to understand that we have this amazing opportunity to engage in life and we can take ownership and responsibility over our choices. In that vein, she asks a very important question: how much of what we deal with in life happens to us, and how much of it did we inflict on ourselves? (that’s a fun thing to spend a few hours pondering). But as a therapist, she helps people find tools to address whatever stage of life they’re–maybe it is a bad situation and you just can’t change it–but as she likes to ask: “what can you change or how can you change your attitude so the situation is less painful for you?” In addition to thinking about our lives existentially, Jen and Dr. Kuburic also discuss the concept of self-loss and how we can deceive ourselves into thinking we’re living the life we want, when our bodies are telling us otherwise by devolving into depression, anxiety and panic.

Jen and Dr. Kuburic get honest about:

What it’s like when you love the “idea” of who you are more than who you actually are–and how to stop lying to yourself
What happens when not making a change in your life actually becomes more painful than changing
Realizing that our bodies do have limits–no matter how strong you think you are or how strong you’ve been—your body is sending up red flags with feelings of anxiousness, fear or panic for seemingly no reason
How sometimes our dedication to make something work can be so all consuming–even if that thing isn’t the right thing for our lives and hat commitment, which is normally a good quality, can lead us to our weakest moments if we don’t face up to the truth

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I think I got into psychology to try to understand what makes humans tick and try to understand my own human experience.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic

“We get to engage in life; we can take ownership, we can take responsibility, we can make choices, and I think that that's really how I see human suffering. My question is always, ‘how much of it happened to you? How much of it did you inflict on yourself?’” - Dr. Sara Kuburic

“I think if you're stagnant, that's where the loss happens. That's when we overcommit to one version of ourselves. When you’re not being stagnant, you are always being fluid–I think you’re understanding the assignment, which is constant creation and adaptation of yourself to fit your experiences, your context, and what life is asking of you in that moment.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic

“Stop assuming you know someone well enough to stop paying attention.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic

“I think having someone that I've known for eight years sit me down and just be like, ‘Hey, are you happy,” was the first time anyone, including myself, asked that question.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic

“Someone else made the mess and now you have to clean it up when it wasn't your mess. But, the reason you're cleaning it up is because you deserve not to live in a mess, not because they deserve for you to clean it up. It's for you.” - Dr. Sara Kuburic

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Dr. Sara Kuburic’s USA Today Column

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Website

Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Instagram

Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Facebook

Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Twitter

Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Pinterest

Dr. Sara Kuburic’s Substack

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Time's 100 Most Influential People in 2021.

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For the Love of Therapy: Jada Pinkett-Smith on Trauma, Grief, and the Power of Embracing Your Journey Oct 25, 2023

We’re in the thick of our “For the Love of Therapy” series, and this week we’re getting a full helping of candor and insight from the multifaceted actress and author, Jada Pinkett Smith. Jada candidly reveals another side to her journey that many might not know from her highly public persona, a story where she takes charge of her narrative in the face of what people have decided for themselves who they think she is. Jada recounts the formative and often traumatic events of her past, and talks in stark terms about her present day pain points. Without sparing the hard parts, Jada leans into what it’s like for her, as it is for so many of us to be a woman today, what it’s like to reckon with our trauma, and marriage is really like behind the curtain, in hopes that what she’s learned will resonate with other women, no matter what their story is.

Jen and Jada compare notes from their own lives about:

Jada’s encounters with complex trauma, PTSD, panic attacks, and suicidal ideation
How mental health issues can visit anyone at any time, regardless of privilege or upbringing
The slow acceptance to admitting they’ve faced trauma, thinking “others have had it worse” - and the continued work toward reckoning with that truth
The reality that all of us, especially those in the public sector, will be judged by others, and a new understanding that judgment is most often about people’s own pain and how they’ve been hurt by others’ judgment, rather than it is about the person being judged

Through sharing her life journey, which she covers in much greater detail in her newly released book “Worthy,” it’s Jada’s hope to encourage others navigating similar struggles towards wellness and understanding.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I just wanted to offer other women breadcrumbs that are on this journey called life. Our journeys aren't going to look exactly the same, but there are just some universal challenges that we have just being human and specifically being women. I just wanted to go, ‘Listen, I don't care what's going on. Instagram and Facebook, life is messy. Life is difficult. It's challenging. We're all trying to figure this out, and I'm just going to show you little things along the way that I figured out.’” - Jada Pinkett Smith

“When you really start to understand the human condition, and when you really start to see people's fears, you really start to see people's pain. That's why people want to strike at you. That's why people want to spew whatever they can your way because of how they've been hurt, how they've hurt themselves, how they've been hurt from others' judgment.” - Jada Pinkett Smith

“I am so lucky--yes, my mother was deep in her addiction, but I'm going to tell you--she showed up [for me] at some of the most pivotal times.” - Jada Pinkett Smith

“It would take me years to really detach myself from chaos because chaos became normal for me.” - Jada Pinkett Smith

“It's not other people's judgment that's the problem. It's how you judge yourself. When you know who you are and you are in the process of healing your self-judgment, you realize that any judgment that anybody's got on you is really a reflection of where they are sitting within themselves.” - Jada Pinkett Smith

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Red Table Talk

Girls Hold Up This World by Jada Pinkett Smith and Donyelle Kennedy

Worthy by Jada Pinkett Smith

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

For the Love Podcast Episode Featuring Dr. Hillary McBride

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For the Love of Therapy: Women and Emotions - No More Apologies: Dr. Anita Phillips Oct 18, 2023

Have you ever been told you are “too emotional,” or if you display sadness or anger that you’re “overreacting,” or (gasp) - even “hysterical?” Women have long had their emotions weaponized against them. And as part of our For the Love of Therapy series, we have a trauma therapist and mental health expert Dr. Anita Phillips at the mic to share her thoughts and findings on why embracing our emotions can be the key to living our most powerful life. Dr. Phillips extensively explores the societal pressures that often lead women to suppress their emotions. She argues that emotions are not a sign of weakness, but a source of strength, and should be embraced rather than hidden. Women's emotions are a reflection of their experiences and individuality, and they deserve to be expressed freely and without apology. She believes that if we can shift our perspective around emotions, we can achieve a healthier mental state and improved relationships, fostering a culture that values emotional authenticity and rejects unnecessary emotional censorship.

Jen and Dr. Anita discuss:

The agency we have over our emotions and we won’t flourish unless we stop and listen to what our bodies and our feelings are telling us
That our emotions are not “red flags” they are clues that guide us to the best and healthiest way forward
We shouldn’t see emotions as our enemy, and that internal war over them is not our destiny–we are created to flourish
Principles from Dr. Anita’s book, The Garden Within

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Not having an explanation for what's happening is its own form of trauma. The trauma overwhelms not only our body's capacity to cope with what's happening, but it breaks our frame of reference when we cannot explain this in any way. That is also traumatizing because the world becomes chronically unsafe.” - Dr. Anita Phillips

“I was having these experiences with my emotions and my body that did not line up with this idea that our thoughts reigned supreme. That's one of the things that opened the door to me looking at trauma more deeply.” - Dr. Anita Phillips

“My emotional pain does not squelch my spiritual power.” - Dr. Anita Phillips

“We've been taught as Christians that if we believe and have faith, it's going to turn out good. Then we wouldn't be crying. We wouldn't be sad or we wouldn't be scared. That's insane because we have bodies and we're humans.” - Dr. Anita Phillips

“Emotion brings flexibility to our decision-making that is important. We don't want robotic decision-makers. We want people who have heart, and who recognize humanity. Emotion has always been a part of human decision making.” - Dr. Anita Phillips

“Because we have stigmatized emotions in order to not feel the painful ones, we have disconnected from our bodies. That's another problem; seeing the body as a problem as well.” - Dr. Anita Phillips

“Women are taught not to trust their gut, not to trust their intuition, but we have so much power in that space.” - Dr. Anita Phillips

“I'm emotional. I'm emotional all the time, and I'm so proud of that because I'm living the most powerful life I've ever lived because of that.” - Dr. Anita Phillips

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

What is the Vagus Nerve?

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Anita’s Website

Dr. Anita’s Instagram

Dr. Anita’s YouTube

Dr. Anita's Facebook

Dr. Anita’s Twitter

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Anjelah’s Comedy Specials

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For the Love of Funny: It’s Funny Where Life Takes Us Sometimes: Anjelah Johnson-Reyes Oct 11, 2023

It’s so fun when we get to have guests back on the show that we love, but it’s especially fun when we get to catch up after we haven’t talked to them for awhile! This guest joined us in the very first year of our show in the For the Love of Laughter series, and she was fire then, and she’s fire now, 5 years later. We’re talking about the amazingly talented and hilarious Anjelah Johnson-Reyes, one of our favorite comedians in the whole wide world! You know her from her awesome Nail Salon comedy sketch, which launched her career, or as her character from MadTV, Bon Qui Qui, and from her amazing comedy specials. When Anjelah was with us last time, she shared that she and her husband had chosen to pursue their careers to the fullest and had made the very personal decision to not have kids. But it’s funny what can change in five years, and Anjelah is now the proud mom of 3 month old Rosie Harlow Reyes. She shares what led to the decision to have a baby, what she’s learned in this season - which she also candidly shares on her YouTube channel via a series of videos called Postpartum Confessions. Whether she’s on stage doing comedy, acting on TV and in movies, or hosting podcasts with her husband Manny, Anjelah gives a great perspective on how life can take us where we least expect to go, and how we can laugh about it a little along the way.

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Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Anjelah’s Latest Special at the Ryman in Nashville

Anjelah’s Nail Salon Bit

Who Do I Think I Am: Stories of Chola Wishes and Caviar Dreams by Anjelah Johnson

Anjelah’s Podcasts Including Manjelah

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

A Comedy Bit on Kevin’s YouTube Channel

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For the Love of Funny: Laughing Toward The Light: Comedian Kevin James Thornton Finds Himself at 50 Oct 04, 2023

We’re keeping the laughs going as we continue our For the Love of Funny series–and this week we’ve got Kevin James Thornton, a comedian and entertainer, who, after spending his youth in a fundamentalist church in the 90’s, found a lot to laugh about. After moving to LA to make his way on stages at the Comedy Store and as an actor, Kevin wasn’t sure he was happy with how his life was going. After a move to Nashville and some serious contemplation about where to go next, the pandemic hit. Bored at home, Kevin discovered a little thing called TikTok and decided it might be fun to share some of the stories of what it was like to grow up gay in a fundamentalist church in the 90’s, and much to his surprise his videos were wildly successful. At 50 years old, Kevin had found his niche, and now he brings his unique brand of comedy (often sung as a story through an auto-tune device—because it was the 90’s, after all) ) with audiences across the U.S. and Europe and with over 2 million followers on social media.

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Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Comedy Store in West Hollywood

For the Love Episode with Nate Bargatze

Kevin James Thornton's Upcoming Shows

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

A Prairie Home Companion with Garrison Keillor

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For the Love of Funny: Tom Papa Takes His Comedy Personally Sep 27, 2023

We’re knee-deep in our “For the Love of Funny” series, celebrating all things hilarious and witty. Jen’s been a long-time fan and amateur participant in the world of comedy, and our guest today explores one of her tip-top favorite genres of comedy. He's a master of observational humor, turning even the most mundane moments of life into pure comedy gold. Our guest, Tom Papa, is not just a comedian—he's a whirlwind of talent with a remarkable career spanning two decades. From his uproarious Netflix specials "What A Day" and "You're Doing Great," to his writing and stand-up projects in comedy clubs and for shows like NPR’s "Live From Here," to his acting roles, Tom has done it all. He and Jen discuss the common theme of mining gold from your family to create some of your best comedy material (but avoiding presenting that said material to them, because family can be brutal critics). They also discuss Tom’s new passion–baking, and how between writing, doing comedy and various shows, he’s in the kitchen tending to all the processes involved with producing amazing bread and other baked goods. To that end, Tom also hosts his own podcast called "Breaking Bread with Tom Papa," where he invites guests for lively discussions over meals. Like a lot of comedians, Tom is more than just funny—he's a thoughtful, insightful individual who gives you something to think about between all the laughs.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“My uncle Tony was really funny. He would sit at the table and hold court. Then some cousins were funny, and so I definitely gravitated toward those people; that always kind of informed me. And I started doing that around my friends very, very early.” - Tom Papa

“[In my comedy] I relate through family and the small stuff. It's like it is observational, but it's not. It's very personal observational, in a way." - Tom Papa

"When you’re around people that are doing what you want to do, in time, you just want someone to say, 'it'll work. Just tell me. It'll work out.' It's like sometimes you go to the doctor, 'just tell me everything's all right.'" - Tom Papa

“[My favorite thing] is standup, but that almost goes without saying. That's just me. So to even call that one of the things is kind of not fair. It's so good. It's so great. You get the response, you get the physical, the mental, the applause, the scariness, all of it is so raw and potent out of the other stuff that I do." - Tom Papa

"One of the biggest hurdles that writers have is, is your own head saying, 'is this good enough?' And you start tearing it down and stop yourself from working with your critical mind." - Tom Papa

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Class Clown (Comedy Album by George Carlin)

Let's Get Small (Comedy Album by Steve Martin)

Come to Papa

Chris Thile

The Fitzgerald Theater

Daily Rituals by Mason Currey

Getting Baked with Tom Papa // The Best Italian Ciambella Ever!

Getting Baked with Tom Papa // How To Start Baking Sourdough

Jen’s No-Cook Thai Peanut Chicken Salad Recipe

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Correct Opinions (Podcast hosted by Trey, Katie, and Jake)

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Sheltered Kids Who Grew Up To Be Funny: Trey + Katie Kennedy and Jake Triplett Sep 20, 2023

We’re back with more funny, and this week doesn’t disappoint. For those of you who grew up in the Bible Belt and maybe went to a conservative church (or even if you didn’t), perhaps you were a bit sheltered like our guests this week. Before racking up over 12 million combined followers on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and elsewhere, and hosting the hit podcast Correct Opinions, comedian Trey Kennedy came to fame on the short-form videosharing app Vine. His hilarious and pointed videos ranged from imitating a church youth pastor who is cornily trying to be cool and up on pop culture, to an overly sunny Dad who tries to drag his teenage son out of bed to go to church. Now, Trey has teamed up with his friend Jake Triplett, who he met at a Christian camp, and the two co host the podcast, along with Trey’s wife Katie (who keeps the pair on track and from going down too many rabbit holes). In this episode, the trio and Jen share the commonalities of their Baptist church upbringings, their naivete about dating customs (hearing Jake’s assessment of what he thought french kissing was will make you howl), and how Trey’s Bible wielding grandmother had a serious talk with him about rumours of him being gay (He’s not. Not that there’s anything wrong with that). They've managed to turn being 'sheltered' into comedy gold, and they’ve been taking their brand of comedy all around the country with their recent “Grow Up” tour and their clean comedy is resonating everywhere. Their funny spin on their past doesn't just give us a good laugh; it also makes anyone who had a similar childhood feel like part of a big, quirky family.

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Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Vine

Trey Kennedy’s Grow Up Comedy Tour

Jake Triplett’s Sheltered Kid Special

Shiny Happy People Docuseries

For the Love Episode ft. John Crist

Make Me Care About Podcast Interview with Melinda Gates

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

For the Love of Finding Truth ft. Eric Thomas

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For the Love of Funny: Finding The Funny In Our Wins and Losses with R. Eric Thomas Sep 13, 2023

We’re back with more of our For the Love of Funny series, and this week we’re asking the question; is it possible to find humor not only in our lighter moments, but also in our vulnerable and difficult times? Our guest this week specializes in wit through the written word–and he has found that it is possible to find joy, while being heartfelt and hilarious at the same time. We’re welcoming R. Eric Thomas, back to the show! Whether he’s writing about politics, pop culture, or celebrity craziness–Eric has a refreshing and hilarious perspective–which really helps when regular reporting on politics and news might send us spiraling into the darkness. Eric is also a television writer (Dickinson on AppleTV+, Better Things on FX), a playwright, and a bestselling author of several books, including Here For It: Or How To Save Your Soul in America and his newest work, a collection of hilarious essays called Congratulations The Best Is Over. Eric brings that laugh we need when the world seems bonkers, and helps remind us that we can find something to laugh at in almost every situation–we just have to be open to it.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Be grateful that you got to this place because this is where you wanted to be. Don't spend so much time thinking, ‘What if it all goes away?’” - R. Eric Thomas

“I think to myself, ‘If you were better, then you'd be busier and that would make you happier.’ I don't know that busier equals happier. I don't know if that's true.” - R. Eric Thomas

“I remember the first time somebody came up to me in the street and said, ‘Hey, this is weird, but I follow your Facebook, a friend of mine told me to, and you're funny.’ And I'm like, ‘Who are you? What's happening? Where are the cameras?’” - R. Eric Thomas

“I know from my own experience as a reader and as a writer, you can have a good time with something that is both funny and heartfelt.” - R. Eric Thomas

“I posted an Instagram story that was essentially like, ‘I got rejected from this thing, but my Beyonce´ hat came. So there are pluses and minuses.’ People really responded. They were like, ‘Thank you for sharing not only your wins but your losses. It seems like you're always winning.’ I'm like, ‘baby, I am always losing, but I'm not going to share that.’” - R. Eric Thomas

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Eric Reads the News

Dickinson

Better Things

Here for It by R. Eric Thomas

Congratulations, The Best is Over by R. Eric Thomas

Reclaiming Her Time: The Power of Maxine Waters by R. Eric Thomas and Helena Andrews-Dyer

Kings of B’more by R. Eric Thomas

Lynn Nottage’s Website

The Getaway Car: A Practical Memoir About Writing and Life by Ann Patchett

The Enneagram Institute

Broken (in the best possible way) by Jenny Lawson

My Point…And I Do Have One by Ellen Degeneres

There’s Nothing in This Book That I Meant to Say by Paula Poundstone

The Moth

For the Love Podcast episode with Anne Bogel

Guest’s Links:

R. Eric Thomas’s Website

R. Eric Thomas’s Instagram

R. Eric Thomas’s Twitter

R. Eric Thomas’s Facebook

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

For the Love Episode ft. Kevin Nealon

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Yelled at By A Clown: How Nate Bargatze Found His Funny Sep 06, 2023

We’re looking for laughs and we found them in all the right places, and we’re sharing the hilarity with a brand new series called For the Love Of Funny. If you’ve hung out with us for any amount of time, you know that Jen is an avid devotee of all things funny. So we’ve rounded up some of her favorite funny people to not only bring us laughs, but to unpack the art and science of making people laugh. And for our very first episode, we couldn’t be more delighted to welcome “The Tennessee Kid” himself–Nate Bargatze! Nate’s known for his down-to-earth humor and deadpan comedy delivery, his highly viewed Netflix specials, and his favored status as a frequent guest on “The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon: (10+ times!). Surprise guest interviewer Tyler Merritt joins Jen as they pull back the curtain on Nate’s comedy journey. Often referred to as the “nicest man in standup,” Nate talks about growing up in a performance forward home (his dad was a Christian magician), the origins of some of his funniest jokes (Yelled at By a Clown, anyone?) and the side of fame that isn’t so pretty–like his sister’s incredulity that anyone would want to take a selfie with him.

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Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Nate Bargatze: The Tennessee Kid

Nate Bargatze: The Greatest Average American

The Nateland Podcast

The Be Funny Tour

The Second City Comedy Club

Hannibal Buress’s Website

Kumail Nanjiani

T.J. Miller’s Website

Pete Holmes Website

Amy Schumer’s Website

Aziz Ansari’s Website

Dusty Slay’s Website

Sinbad: Afros & Bellbottoms

Brian Regan’s Website

Kurt Metzger’s Website

Big J Oakerson’s Website

Bill Burr’s Website

Dave Attell’s Website

Eddie Murphy: Raw

Eddie Murphy: Delirious

The Comic Strip

Steve Martin

Justin Smith’s Website

Guest’s Links:

Nate’s Website

Nate’s Instagram

Nate’s TikTok

Nate’s YouTube Channel

Nate’s Twitter

Nate’s Facebook

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

The Unlikely Village of Eden by Emma Nadler Feed These People by Jen Hatmaker

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Redefining Community & Friendships When Faced With The Unexpected ft. Emma Nadler Aug 30, 2023

As we close in on the end of our Community and Friendships series, we’re reflecting on the great conversations we’ve had toward building relationships in our lives. And this week’s convo puts the cherry on top as we discuss our friends as “chosen family” and the shape that our friendship and communities take when we are in a place where we need extra support. Our guest this week, Emma Nadler, is a therapist, author and speaker who is doing valuable work in helping people build deeper relationships. Emma knows firsthand what it means to rely on her circle in ways she never thought she would, when her daughter was diagnosed with a DNA disorder, shifting the life she knew, and navigating the special care, multiple hospital stays, and more than full-time parenting her daughter needs. By leaning on her community and being brave enough to ask for help (when sometimes the tendency is to act like we’ve got it all under control). Emma’s goal is to show us how we can look beyond preconceived notions about what it means to be valued and to belong, and leads us toward building a world where thriving in community is possible for every single person.

Emma and Jen touch on:

What it looks like when our “family” looks different than expected in the context of friendships and our communities
How to understand and learn to tolerate our emotions when it comes to interacting with friends and community and how to find meaning in everything—good and bad
Practical steps on fostering really authentic connections, asking for help, and creating inclusive spaces
The power of being direct when reaching out to connect with new people, or friends you’ve drifted from, to foster a deeper relationship

There’s so much value in learning how to meaningfully connect with others and create communities and friendships that celebrate our joyful times and anchor us at difficult times.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“We're born into something and we get certain things from that family; we might get a lot of things. We might get a lot of love. Some people do, some people don't get what they need. I think we can take that and build on it in the relationships that we create in our lives.” - Emma Nadler

“There are 53 million caregivers in the United States right now and we can really feel alone, even though we're not. Often our work [leaves us] tucked away. We're at home. We have so much that we're grappling with that isn't seen. And so it can really feel [lonely].” - Emma Nadler

“What would it be like to be open with people about what we are looking for in our relationships, what we want, and really let that in? ” - Emma Nadler

“To me, in relationships, the question I'm most interested in is, do we want the same things out of this relationship?” - Emma Nadler

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Dr. Robert Waldinger’s Harvard Second Generation Study

Guest’s Links:

Emma’s Website

Emma’s Instagram

Emma’s Facebook

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

PLEASE NOTE: Listening to this podcast in no way creates a client/therapist relationship with Emma Nadler. This is educational in nature. No legal, counseling, or other professional services are being rendered and nothing is intended to provide such services or advice of any kind. If you are having a mental health emergency, please contact 911 or go to your nearest emergency room. You can also text or call 988 for the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline (within the United States).

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The Hardest Part of Friendship; When It’s Time To Say Goodbye ft. Erin Falconer Aug 23, 2023

We’re back with our “For the Love of Community and Friendship Series, and this week, we delve into an area of friendship that all of us may face, but inevitably dread. It’s that moment when you know a friendship has run its course, or perhaps has become toxic, or you’ve just drifted apart–and you don’t know how to go forward. When life changes, when we change, and a friendship no longer serves us, how do we gracefully (and honestly) communicate about it? Our guest this week, who is here to walk us through this touchy topic, is writer, former standup comedian and political consultant Erin Falconer. Erin's written a book called How to Break Up With Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection and Boundaries in Modern Friendships. Lest you think this is just a conversation on how to wipe your friend slate clean, stick around–you’ll hear Jen and Erin talk about how to create and maintain the healthiest friendships through all the seasons of our lives in order to avoid the painful friend breakup.

They also discuss:

Erin’s “Six Pillars of Friendship” that help us take stock of who is in our life and how we’re serving each other
What to do when we see a friendship has run its course or needs to shift or change in some way
How to keep the source of joy going in our adult friendships, and minimize the pain

It’s tough to grapple with the complexities of friendship breakups, but it all starts with building healthy relationships from the start.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“There's no collectively agreed upon language out there in the zeitgeist about how to navigate conflict in [friend] relationships. There’s no blueprint for what a good one looks like, what a bad one looks like, and how to get out of good bad ones and into good ones." - Erin Falconer

“The default setting on any one relationship should be one of positivity. It's so easy to slip into negative thinking and negative conversations because they feel so good. They feel like you're seen and you're heard and done. But you have to be really careful to not lean too heavily into those things.” - Erin Falconer

“Relationships take work. To show up, you need to commit to the other person and you have to find your rhythm of what that looks like. It doesn't mean you have to be getting dinner every week, but there has to be some kind of agreed-upon level of commitment in this.” - Erin Falconer

“It is true that individuals themselves can be toxic people. That is such a small percentage of people. It is, in this case, the relationship that is toxic, and even if somebody else is behaving badly, you've allowed them to continue to show up in this way in your life. We teach people how to treat us and there's a certain degree of responsibility we need to own within these relationships because with responsibility comes freedom and power.” - Erin Falconer

“Relationships are very much a mirror to you. The more you explore these types of relationships, the more you explore yourself. To that end, understanding who is in your world is really important to understanding who you are.” - Erin Falconer

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

For the Love of Reconnecting ft. Nedra Tawwab

How to Break Up with Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection, and Boundaries in Modern Friendships by Erin Falconer

Marie Kondo

Guest’s Links:

Erin’s Instagram

Erin’s Twitter

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

For the Love of Books Series

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Shannan Martin on Friendship: “It Starts with Hello” Aug 16, 2023

When was the last time you reached out to one of your neighbors? Not just the people you feel comfortable with, but the ones who live near that you might not know beyond a “How are you?” in passing. As we continue our Community and Friendship series, we’re taking a look at why it enriches our lives (and the lives of our neighbors) to invest in the people around us. It doesn’t have to mean they all become our best friends, but a little curiosity, a little paying attention, and a little effort to listen will go a long way in developing the kinds of relationships that make life sweeter. To help guide this conversation, we’re delighted to welcome author and speaker Shannan Martin back to the show! Through her writing, Shannan has revolutionized the way we think about relationships with her refreshing perspectives. She articulates the need for genuine, deep-seated friendships that stretch beyond conventional norms. She also unravels the complexities of forging meaningful connections in our modern world, and her last book “Start with Hello” beckons us toward extending hospitality in ways that might feel awkward at first, but will net us that sense of community and belonging we all long for.

Shannan and Jen discuss:

How Shannan, a self proclaimed introvert, faced her loneliness after she and her family moved from the country to the city by getting outside her comfort zone and making herself available to meet her neighbors

What it means to be deeply embedded in a neighborhood where you are both a good neighbor, and your neighbors are good neighbors to you
How making new friends, no matter how big or small, always starts with a simple “hello” and the small steps towards getting to know someone by making eye contact, paying attention and helping when we can

Shannan and Jen agree that when we reach out beyond our fears, beyond our comfort level, and beyond our borders with radical hospitality, good things start to happen in our neighborhoods which then trickle out to our communities and begin to affect society as a whole. And, be sure to stay with us ‘til the very end–you won’t want to miss a little bonus chat among friends about whether ice cream is healthy for you or not, and what flavors Jen and Shannan swear by.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Every relationship that we have, whether it's the smallest acquaintance or our truest loves, began with a hello.” - Shannan Martin

“There's this unfair idea that if somebody is unhoused, they're gonna be inherently a danger to us and it's just simply not true.” - Shannan Martin

“What if we just decided to eat together? What if we decided that nobody is exempt from being in our home? Everybody's invited. That makes life really interesting.” - Shannan Martin

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

The Window (a nonprofit organization out of Goshen, IN)

Shannan’s Books

For the Love Episode ft. Osheta Moore

An article on the health benefits of Ice Cream by The Atlantic

Toad the Wet Sprocket Tour

Crack the Case by Dawes

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen!: Jen’s website

Dr. Franco’s Psychology Today

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What Is Your Friendship Attachment Style? Ft. Dr. Marisa Franco Aug 09, 2023

Hey friends, we are back with another episode in our For the Love of Community & Friendships, and we happen to have a true friend of the show returning to lay down some expertise about what it means to make and keep friends. We’re delighted to have Dr. Marisa Franco, (who also partnered with Jen to create a MeCourse on Friendship) who delves into the fascinating world of friendship attachment styles. Dr. Franco shares her extensive knowledge and insights on how our attachment styles, often formed during our early years, can significantly influence the type of friendships we form as adults. She discusses the three main types of attachment styles—secure, avoidant, and anxious—and explains how understanding our own style can help us navigate our friendships more effectively. Jen and Marisa touch on:

How the three main types of attachment styles can change over time as we typically become more secure as we mature
How, when we’re younger, we tend to have more friends (and friends who are very similar to us) as we look to expand our identity, and when we become more solid in our identity, we’re more open to be friends with people who are different from us
Why friendship doesn’t just typically “happen,”--it takes effort, and some ways you can put yourself out there to make new friends, and how to do the work to keep the friends you already have
How to approach conflict in friendship where we kindly share our needs with a spirit of reconciliation over an attitude of defensiveness

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“If you don't understand your attachment style, you think that the world is just mean and cruel and people are gonna reject you or people are going to betray you. If you're more avoidant and you don't have any power, you don't have any agency because all the issues are out in the world.” - Dr. Marisa Franco

“I think if we can understand our attachment styles, we have more agency, we have more control, we can shift our behaviors and we can find the relationships that we really want.” - Dr. Marisa Franco

“People are a lot more likely to be friends with people that are similar to them. It's called homophily. The value of these similar relationships is they do make us feel very safe.” - Dr. Marisa Franco

“We see in the research that people who see friendship as happening without effort are more likely to be lonely five years later. People that see it as requiring effort are less likely to be lonely five years later.” - Dr. Marisa Franco

“What we see in the research is that when people try to reconnect with someone, that person is happier to receive that reconnection than we predict.” - Dr. Marisa Franco

“In a healthy conflict, I think of; what does this conflict look like without blame? What if I go into here not trying to blame this person, not trying to even assume that they were trying to intentionally hurt me. So then, how do I navigate it with that being what's going on in my head?” - Dr. Marisa Franco

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Platonic How The Science of Attachment Can Help You Make and Keep Friends a book by Dr. Marisa Franco

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Franco’s Website

Dr. Franco’s Instagram

Dr. Franco’s Facebook

Dr. Franco’s Twitter

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith

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The Friendships That Save Us: Maggie Smith Aug 02, 2023

Genuine heart friendships have an incredible impact on our lives, including our health. Many recent studies tout the connection between health and the quality of your relationships, and that loneliness (not to be confused with being alone) can have a negative effect on our health–possibly even bigger than smoking or drinking or poor eating. So is it possible that our friends can actually help save us? Our guest today thinks so; writer and poet extraordinaire Maggie Smith recently went through a divorce and she credits her close knit friend group for being “her parachute” in that process (much like Jen’s friends have been for her as well).

Jen and Maggie discuss these topics around friendship:

The way friends can invest in you in a way that family isn’t able to when you’re going through disruptive life moments
The friends that intuitively know what you need during a rough patch and show up proactively with solutions so you don’t feel so lost
How we can nurture those “life saving” friendships by being a good friend ourselves

Thank God for the friends who remind us of who we are–of our core goodness and worth– when a disruptive time shakes up our identity. They help bring us back to ourselves.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I was in a ‘not seeing the forest for the trees' mode. I was painting an inch from the canvas. I had no idea what the shape of anything was and I was just panicked and trying to spackle everything back together as quickly as I could. And so having people who could remind me of my goodness, my core worth, which I think is so easy to forget in these moments." - Maggie Smith

"When friends come in, they're not necessarily invested in the relationship. They're invested in your happiness. Whatever that looks like for you, it doesn't actually impact your friend a block away. If your marriage doesn't work the same way it impacts your family, who's thinking, 'Oh, what are we gonna do for Christmas now?'" - Maggie Smith

“I think there's something that we do that hurts our adult friendships in particular, which is why we prioritize them sometimes way below our romantic relationships. It happens even when we're dating. We all knew or we were the girl who was 15 and as soon as she got a boyfriend stopped hanging out with her friends on the weekends because she was like, ‘I just wanna be with my boyfriend and if he's busy then I can come hang out.’” - Maggie Smith

"Maybe someone hurt you five years ago now seems pretty small and not unmanageable or unforgivable. So what would it take to just reach out, call your friends, and have them help you craft a text to someone that you haven't talked to in a while, or leave a voicemail—if you're phone brave, I am not phone brave, so I would text or probably email. If you know where they live, send a little postcard that has some little private joke or something that reminds you of them." - Maggie Smith

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

My Thoughts Have Wings by Maggie Smith (A picture book releasing in winter 2024 by Maggie Smith)

Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith (FTL Episode featuring Maggie Smith)

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Friends song by Michael W. Smith

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Finding Friends, Keeping Them and What To Do When You Break Up: Laura Tremaine Jul 26, 2023

We’re in a brand new series; For the Love of Friends and Community. Friendship and community often serve as the cornerstone for many women's lives, providing a vital support system that nurtures connection, empathy, and mutual growth. In a recent survey from Psych Central, nearly half of most women report having fewer than 3 close friends, one third report having between 4-9 close friends, and 12% say they have no close friends at all. We know that friendship contributes to more satisfaction in life and is good for our overall health. So what’s the key to finding and keeping friends? How many friends do we need to get those good friend vibes? Our guest this week, author and podcaster Laura Tremaine, has written extensively about friendship, drawing from her own experiences and the experiences of other women she has talked to. Laura wants us to identify, create and nurture these deep connections that we long for. She also teaches us that friendship takes work, and vulnerably shares her friendship fails (yes, even a friendship expert has a few friend misses now and again).

Jen and Laura discuss:

The key qualities that make a friendship meaningful and enduring, and how those things are defined by what you value
A rundown of the things we all may think are important about friendship and looking at the things that aren’t as important as we’ve been made to believe they are
How to navigate friendship breakups and friendships ending, allowing grief over that loss, and leaving room for that vacant “chair” to be filled by someone new
Finding the “fellow obsessive” friend - the one you can geek out about with things that you both love

Creating meaningful friendships is not just about having a social circle. It's about experiencing true companionship and vulnerability and support. And it's these soul connections that can bring so much joy and fulfillment to our lives.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“You can have all the data about why we connect or don't connect or how many people we can reasonably connect with. There's data and then there's actually real life.” - Laura Tremaine

“It's great to have the friends who knew you when. It's also great to have friends who are like, ‘I had no idea you used to be that way and I'm glad we're meeting at this stage.’” - Laura Tremaine

“My friendship with one of my best friends ended not by my choice, and it was as devastating as any romantic breakup I have ever been through.” - Laura Tremaine

“Sharing your stuff, even when it's messy, brings you closer to who you are.” - Laura Tremaine

“When you make a new friend and someone likes this newest version of you that you have fought so hard to be, how validating is that?” - Laura Tremaine

“Friendship is a to-do and I have to put it on my to-do list like I put work tasks on my to-do list.” - Laura Tremaine

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Share Your Stuff I’ll Go First (a book by Laura Tremaine)

Brené Brown’s Websites

Jamie B. Golden

Steven King Summer (A book club with Laura Tremaine)

On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft by Stephen King

The Stand by Stephen King

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

For the Love of Reconnecting Podcast episode- Rewriting the Stories We Tell Ourselves: Lori Gottlieb

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Demystifying Therapy with Lori Gottlieb Jul 19, 2023

If you or anyone you know and love has ever had issues with their mental health, you know how painful it can be. As we conclude our “For the Love of Being Seen and Heard” series, we just want to remind you that there's no shame in admitting that you might need a little help. Maybe you’re feeling low, or more anxious than usual, or sad, scared, or just off—anything that feels different or keeps you from flourishing. Our guest today is here to encourage you to take agency over your mental health, and as a therapist herself, she’s here to help us shed those stigmas around seeking help from a therapist or counselor. Lori Gottleib is a renowned psychotherapist, a bestselling author, and a leading voice in the mental health space. Her latest book (which was also a a selection for the Jen Hatmaker Book Club) Maybe You Should Talk To Somebody leads us into her own experiences with the transformative power of therapy and gives answers to those who might have hesitations about beginning this process. Lori and Jen talk about:

Identifying the stereotypes about therapy and debunking them, plus what to expect so that you can a get the most out of your time with a therapist
Developing an attitude that mental health is just as important as physical help and that seeking a therapist is on the same level as getting a check up with a medical doctor toward whole body health
Jen’s personal experiences with therapy - and how she processed pain and betrayal, plus what it looks like to be in active recovery
Becoming aware of and taking responsiblity for our own patterns, actions and responses to life events as it pertains to our mental state and interactions with others

As Lori says, “one thing that therapy will teach you is how to be your real, messy, imperfect, fallible self, but also still love who you are.”

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I think a lot of people are maybe afraid to open up to a therapist. They're maybe afraid to say, ‘this is the truth of who I am.’f That's why I really wanted to be open about what I was going through when I went to therapy, because I want people to know that this is a space where we've seen it all, not only as a therapist, but as a person in the world ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb

“The more you can show the truth of who you are, the deeper your connections will be with the people in your life.” - Lori Gottlieb

“The internet is the most effective short-term non-prescription painkiller out there because it's really something we use to distract ourselves.” - Lori Gottlieb

“The value of therapy is that you get wise compassion; we will hold up a mirror to you and we will help you to see what you haven't been willing or able to see about your role in the situation.” - Lori Gottlieb

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Maybe You Should Talk to Somebody by Lori Gottlieb

Jen Hatmaker Book Club

Aspen Ideas Festival

Dear Therapist Podcast

Guy Winch’s Ted Talk

Lori’s Atlantic Articles

Maybe You Should Talk to Someone Workbook

Maybe You Should Talk to Someone Journal

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Make Me Care About Podcast Series

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[BONUS] Gates Foundation: Season Wrap-Up with Melinda French Gates Jul 14, 2023

To close out season one of the Make Me Care About Podcast, Jen sits down with the co-chair of The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, Melinda French Gates. In the spirit of helping us care about important, but sometimes little known facts, resources and phenomena, in this final episode, Melinda helps Jen wrap the season by discussing why she thinks we should care, and why she herself cares about the topics discussed throughout the first season. She also fills us in on what new initiatives are brewing at the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the foundation's future. She discusses a central tenet toward enhancing women’s economic power, and why she believes this is such an important goal for the foundation.

Join Jen and Melinda as they discuss:

What happens when we start to care about important topics like the ones discussed in this Make Me Care About series
How women having true economic power changes everything in their household and in the world
Jen’s pick on the episode from this season that had the most impact on her
How Melinda’s travels around the world provide crucial perspective on other cultures and ways of life toward helping others thrive

You won’t want to miss this fascinating wrap to Season One of the Make Me Care About Podcast with special guest Melinda French Gates.

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Gates Foundation Links

Gates Foundation

Resources for this Episode

Krystal Payne

Deon Woods Bell

Chef Pierre Thiam

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Robert Waldinger Ted Talk

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Reimagining Our Relationships Toward Rebalancing The Domestic Workload with Eve Rodsky Jul 12, 2023

We’re back with another installment of our Being Seen and Heard series, and we think this one is going to strike a nerve with many of you out there who are looking for a better, stronger, fairer, narrative when it comes to the balance of work in your home and toward raising children. Are you the one in your relationship who is handling the lion’s share of the care and feeding of your littles PLUS taking care of their pickups and dropoffs to school, daycare, sports, bathtimes, bedtimes, wiping noses, butts PLUS managing the domestic front of grocery shopping, cleaning, organizing, handling the social calendar, vacations, PLUS working a 40 hour a week job either inside or outside the home? We see you and are asking a question that maybe you ask every day; why are women still, in a day and age where we make up 55.9 percent of the workforce and where 40 percent are the main breadwinner in the home, still responsible for so much when it comes to child rearing and domestic workload? Our guest this week has created a national conversation about greater equality on the home front with a system she created through intense research that helps couples create balance, by understanding that women are doing what she calls almost all of the “invisible labor” in the home, with at least two thirds of them having a job outside the home as well. Eve Rodsky is a Harvard Law School grad with years of training in organizational management When she had her first child (and began to see her identity at her job being stripped away because of it) and then began the dance of balancing her job with all of her duties as a mother (for which she bore the lion’s share of the domestic and child rearing responsibilities, as so many women do) she started to wonder: what would it be like if couples could reimagine their relationships as to how it relates to rebalancing the work it takes to run a home? So began her “Fair Play” system, where she sets couples up for success in relationship and parenting by helping them change the way they think and talk about their home life.

Jen and Eve discuss:

The patriarchal history that has been around for centuries that informs why the imbalance of domestic workload still exists when so many other categories for women have been elevated

How important it is to invite men into their full power into the home, removing barriers and stereotypes as to what men’s and women’s strengths are there

Changing the notion that women’s time is somehow less important than men’s–and that the “invisible work” women do is toward guarding the time of men

How the overwhelming pace of work, child rearing and home management eventually ends up making us sick and damaging our relationships, and what we can do about it

BONUS: Eve puts Jen to the test with a question from her Fair Play card deck where we dive deep into Jen’s family values–a question that is illuminating to all of us in understanding each other in relationship.

Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Changing and inviting men into their full power in the home is the only way women are gonna be able to step out into their full power in the world.” - Eve Rodsky

“We've convinced women that their time is sand. It's infinite. Whereas we guard men's time as if it's finite like diamonds.” - Eve Rodsky

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Peter Drucker

Fair Play Life Instagram

Fairlifeplay.com

I’m Glad My Mom Died by Jennette McCurdy - book recommendation

Tiny Beautiful Things by Cheryl Strayed - book recommendation

The Kingdom of Prep: The Inside Story of the Rise and (Near) Fall of J. Crew - book recommendation

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Jessamyn’s People Magazine feature

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Seeing and Loving Your Body (and Yourself) With No Shame: Jessamyn Stanley Jul 05, 2023

We’re back with maybe the most foundational episode in our Being Seen and Heard series–and it’s all about how we see ourselves. Were you taught to love yourself when you were growing up? Many of us never grew up hearing anything about embodiment, and maybe we’ve treated our bodies as “the enemy” for most of our years. Maybe you grew up in a time where you didn’t see people that looked like you, or had your body type represented in magazines, on TV or in movies. Perhaps you even had shame about your body (or still do), and you bought into diet culture and were constantly worried about your size and the number on the scale. It’s hard to see ourselves as beautiful when we’re looking outside ourselves for a standard of beauty. Our guest today is doing the good work of helping people see themselves differently, and it’s giving them freedom to love themselves for who they are today. Jessamyn Stanley has become a powerful voice for wellness and body acceptance (she also dubs herself the “Beyonce’ of yoga” - who can’t get behind that?). After attending yoga classes with a friend, Jessamyn fell in love with it, but she noticed that she didn’t see anyone who looked like her or had a body like hers–and when she moved to a different city and wasn’t attending yoga classes anymore—she craved a community to share her practice–except she wanted all kinds of people and body types to be a part of it. She began sharing her yoga practice on Instagram in 2012 and was amazed by the overwhelming response from many who had never done yoga before because they had felt just like Jessamyn had–that maybe it wasn’t for “people like them.” Her fledgling Insta-yoga classes grew into an organization called The Underbelly, a unique and inclusive digital wellness experience that draws thousands of people into its safe, accepting space.

Jen and Jessamyn touch on these topics:

Jessamyn’s experience being ashamed of her body as a middle schooler and being bullied for being different and how she looks at those years of bullying as a revelation that everyone is self conscious about their bodies-bullies included

The realization we all have at the end of the day; all we have is ourselves-and if we can accept ourselves as we are right now-not who we thought we should be, or who we might be-we’ll enjoy the ability to be fully present and authentic in all of our encounters

Debunking the long held notion that many people have about black women (and also that black women have been taught to believe) that they are “stronger” and “superwomen,” and what it means to allow themselves moments of rest and self-care

Key changes that could be made to empower everyone to have their own agency toward self care, by making it possible for anyone-no matter how much money you make, or where you live-to participate in wellness practices like yoga

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Middle school was a time when I was really heavily bullied. That experience for me, looking back, was one of the greatest experiences because what it was actually teaching me is: everyone is self-conscious about their body. There's no one who is not self-conscious. And the person who bullies is having the most traumatic experience.” -Jessamyn Stanley

“If I am all I have, then I have to learn to accept myself where I am right now. Not where I could be in the future, or where I thought I should have been 10 years ago. Like, what does it mean to just be who I am today?” -Jessamyn Stanley

Resources:

Leslie Kinzel - Body acceptance writer

Maryanne Kirby - Body acceptance writer

Nicolette Mason - Fat fashion blogger

Dianne Bondi - Yoga practitioner

Guest Links:

Jessamyn's Books

@theBabySharkClub - Jessamyn’s dog's Instagram

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Attitudes Toward Gun Ownership in America: Pew Research

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Inside the Fight for Better Gun Safety with MomsRising’s Gloria Pan Jun 28, 2023

If you’ve listened long enough to our show and also follow Jen, you probably know that the conversations we invite come in many stripes—thoughtful, timely, fun, encouraging, helpful, educational and inclusive—plus, we’re not afraid to veer into some of the deeper stuff. Important stuff that is sometimes hard to wrap our heads around, but if we don’t, no change can occur. Whatever we think about gun rights, there are voices to consider who are doing hard work to create a future where kids can safely attend schools, where people won’t be shot just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, where mass shootings become a thing of the past. Wherever you stand on the spectrum of this issue, at the end of the day, many polls show that roughly 90% of us agree that we should have stricter gun laws. So we’re opening the For the Love Floor to someone who is seeing and hearing first hand from families affected by gun violence, who makes it her priority to educate the public, and puts the issue in front of legislators for increased gun safety. Gloria Pan is the VP of Moms Rising, a group of caring moms who take on the most critical issues facing women, mothers and families. She’s the head of their gun safety initiative and works with their membership to accelerate impact on Capitol Hill and state capitols to affect legislative change. She's also been a trusted voice who’s spread the message on CNN, with The Los Angeles Times, NPR, and all kinds of media platforms.

Gloria and Jen have a discussion around:

+ The origins of the 2nd Amendment and how the narrative of guns rights proponents has been shaped over the last 50 years

+ Practical steps toward what we all can do if we want to make our voices heard about this issue and take action toward better gun safety

+ Hope toward a new generation of young people who are engaged in creating a better future and are paying attention in ways perhaps previous generations haven’t

This work is not glamorous and can be full of disappointment, as moving mountains can often be. We’re grateful to people like Gloria who give us a glimpse from inside the fight, and bring us hope that change can really happen.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“Gun violence deaths in this country hovered around 32,000 people a year. That was pretty consistent for many years. Now we're nearing 50,000 and we have so many guns. We have more guns than people in this country.” - Gloria Pan

“We consider all moms and families who care about the future of their families and their communities and our country as our constituency. We very much believe that our job is to bring their voices and their concerns to the policy-making table” - Gloria Pan

“Not too long ago, issues that are concerning for moms and families were never even talked about in Congress. Childcare, paid family and medical leave, and policies that enabled families to be able to care for our families were never even talked about. But because of the work of MomsRising, our partners out there, and moms and families speaking out, it is now front and center for many lawmakers.” - Gloria Pan

"Join us. Help us build this momentum toward this future where the well-being of families is front and center for this country. Because what are we without our families?" - Gloria Pan

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Sandy Hook

Maxwell Frost

2008 Heller Decision

The Bruen Decision

The Cincinnati Revolt

Article on Maxwell Frost and Parkland Florida

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Photo of Rachel from the Women’s March in 2017 per Huffington Post article

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The Black & White of Feminism with Rachel Cargle Jun 21, 2023

It’s another week of our illuminating For the Love of Being Seen and Heard series. We’re talking to people that are doing the life-changing work of helping each other see and hear each other–to see and hear communities that we are not a part of, to see and hear voices that have been traditionally silenced or marginalized, or even to see and hear ourselves in honest and affirming ways. Our guest this week is a powerful advocate, but with a tender heart who works in so many spaces that matter: feminism, racial justice, the arts, activism, self care and healing. Rachel Cargle is a writer and entrepreneur who has created powerful online learning spaces. She’s a regular contributor to Cultured Magazine, The Cut and Atmos. She’s been featured in the New York Times and Forbes as well. Her work centers around an invitation to pursue healing and growth, as well as re-imagining how systems that no longer serve us can be dismantled or changed to embrace justice and liberation. Her belief is that every one of us has power–the power to unlearn, relearn and reimagine–taking ourselves out of stuck spaces and creating places for understanding for everyone. Her thoughts on feminism are so insightful as she looks at how a well intentioned movement for the progress of women leaves out key communities and how reimagining how to see and hear the needs of every woman toward better conditions for all women. This powerful discussion centers around:

An explanation and brief history of the feminist movement and how communities of color often are left behind in this work
How the culture, both inside and outside of black communities often stereotype black women as workers, as strong, as able to bear pain differently than their white counterparts; and Rachel’s work to help black women feel cared for–which leads to an amazing ripple effect on families, organizations and communities
The Loveland Foundation, which gives black women access to black therapists, to self-care and to other resources that are so often not readily or affordably available
Simple ways that women can get involved in the conversation to become clear about this intersection of feminism and race by hearing and telling truths, and to engage in knowledge, empathy, and action.

Sometimes the truth can be hard to process, but when there is intentionality in how we exist in our efforts toward benefitting the condition of women, the result is liberation for all women.

* * *

Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I believe that when black women are poured into, it really offers a ripple effect to most other places in our communities and societies.” - Rachel Cargle

"The systems are insistent on us not being curious. If we're not curious, they must stay the same. And if they stay the same the people who built them to win will continue winning." - Rachel Cargle

"A lot of what I didn't yet know was what it meant to be a black woman in the feminist movement, in spaces full of white women who were having a very different experience than I was, and who were benefiting from the outcomes of our collective work--more than the black women who were doing equal amounts of the work--and sometimes even more of the work in these spaces." - Rachel Cargle

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

“Feminism is White Supremacy In Heels” an article by Rachel Cargle in Harper’s Bazaar

Elizabeth Cady Staton

Ida B. Wells

Be the Bridge

Ebony Janice Website

The Loveland Foundation Elizabeth’s Bookshop & Writing Centre

Rich Auntie Supreme Instagram

Guest’s Links:

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

FTL Episode ft. Sydney Hatmaker

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From The Church to The Pride Parade: Sara Cunningham with Free Mom Hugs Jun 14, 2023

We’re back for more of our Being Seen and Heard series! In a time where it feels like we are struggling to really see and hear one another, there are some bright lights who make it their mission to help one another understand each other a little better. Our guest today, Sara Cunningham, the founder of FreeMomHugs.org, is one amazing example of what can happen when we really see people for who they are and begin to hear their stories. Sara was on the show right at the beginning of her journey with Free Mom Hugs, and now the org—which started with the simple idea of attending Pride parades and holding up a sign that said “Free Mom Hugs,”—has become a national and world wide phenomenon. She uses her own experience as a guide to how she advocates, and is absolutely passionate about connecting with faith, civic, business, and government leaders in efforts to make the world a kinder safer place for our LGBTQIA+ family.

Sara and Jen touch on these topics:

Sara’s roots in conservative evangelicalism and how she found herself moving “from the church to the pride parade” after she reckoned with her son’s admission that he was gay and going to live in his identity
The stories of people who, after coming out, lost their families, were kicked out of their churches, and felt completely alone and found solace and comfort in the simple act of a mom extending a hug
Sara’s son Parker’s (as well as her own) journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically after seeing others, who had come out in faith environments, survive and thrive after loss
How we can affect change with our voices as it relates to legislation that targets the LGBTQIA+ community

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Thank you to our sponsors!

BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!

MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info.

FOCL | Visit https://focl.com/ and use code FORTHELOVE at checkout for 20% off of your purchase

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I remember there was a time, at the beginning of that journey, I call from the church to the pride parade. It was like reality was setting in. The bubble that I was in, the evangelical conservative mainstream bubble that I was in where everyone looked like me and talked like me, had just shattered. And I wanted to take a banner and put it outside of my house on the front door, like, welcome to the real world. And suddenly it's like my eyes are truly open.” - Sara Cunningham

“I think about [my son] Parker early on in his journey of self-discovery and then coming to live authentically. He had people in his life that had survived the loss, who had survived being outed, kicked out of their place of worship and losing their family. Just seeing them go beyond that and thriving and having a place of their own and working and contributing to society; he saw people that had faced what he feared and then came out on the other side of it.” - Sara Cunningham

“Our mission statement is that we empower the world to celebrate the community through visibility, education, and conversation.” - Sara Cunningham, about FreeMomHugs.org

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Mama Bears

Kai Shappley’s Website

Free Mom Hugs Revolution Conference

Kimberly Shappley’s Website

Glennon Doyle’s Website

How We Sleep at Night: A Mother’s Memoir by Sara Cunningham

Good Friend with Jamie Lee Curtis ft Sara Cunningham

Guest’s Links:

FreeMomHugs Instagram

FreeMomHugs Twitter

FreeMomHugs Youtube

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

My Body is Not a Prayer Request by Dr. Amy Kenny

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Seeing and Hearing the Disabled Community: Dr. Amy Kenny Jun 07, 2023

We’re back with our series For The Love of Being Seen and Heard. There is so much right now floating around in culture about what happens to us when we don’t feel like we’re either being seen or heard. For most of us, the longing to be understood by others is a core need. And for some groups or communities, including the disabled community, the task of being seen, heard and understood is more challenging, and we’ll hear why as we talk with disabled scholar-practitioner Dr. Amy Kenny. Dr. Kenny has made it her life’s work to shed light on and help clear up misunderstandings around the abled community’s view of the disabled. Her latest book, My Body Is Not a Prayer Request does a deep dive into one of those communities—places of faith—and the particular biases and unintentional ableism propagated there. Amy compassionately offers insight and solutions toward understanding in a new way.

Jen and Dr. Kenny discuss:

Common misunderstandings that abled people have toward disabled people plus words and actions they can learn from disabled people toward connectedness
The “invisible qualities of God’s divine nature” and how we might be able to accept imperfections in nature, even considering them beautiful, but are unable to accept or find beauty in the imperfections of our bodies
“Inspiration porn” a phrase that relates to the overall view of disabled folks being the poster children for overcoming—putting them in the position of feeling as if they are objects on a pedestal and that their sole purpose in life is to inspire the abled
The challenges around access for disabled people and how to think differently about the right of access for all people

There’s hope in this conversation, and Amy guides us to a place where we can unlearn some ableist tendencies and learn more about a community that has much to contribute to our world.

* * *

Thank you to our sponsors!

Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit from using Chime

BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!

MeCourse: LGBTQIA+ | LGBTQIA+ Parenting e-course from Jen and special guests is available for order. Visit https://www.mecourse.org/lgbtqia-parenting for more info.

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I'm not ashamed of my disability. It's an intrinsic part of the way that I navigate the world and the way that I am treated by the world and by various communities.” - Dr. Amy Kenny

"I grew up in a household and in a church community that taught me that everyone was made in the image of God. And I had the audacity to believe it. Unfortunately, I wasn't treated as though I was made in the image of God a lot of times because I received potions and prayers and all kinds of shaming tactics to try to pray me away, essentially." - Dr. Amy Kenny

"It's a beautiful interdependence that disabled folks bring and that we all can co-flourish when we have interdependence with one another." - Dr. Amy Kenny

"We create this hierarchy of worth in humanity where we have societally constructed ideas of what's normal, who's intelligent, what's productive enough--who's contributing enough. All of those ideas uphold, ableism, racism, transphobia, colonialism, they're all interconnected." - Dr. Amy Kenny

"My body is made of the same stuff as stars. Just watch me shine." - Dr. Amy Kenny

“I have learned from the disability community that I have permission to show up as myself.” - Dr. Amy Kenny

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Georgetown University’s Disability Culture Initiative

Stella Young’s Memorial Website

Maysoon Zayid’s website

Zoom

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Amy Kenny’s website

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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The Power of Rest & Retreat in Difficult Times: Katherine May May 31, 2023

We’re at the tail end of our For the Love of Calming the Chaos series–and if you’ve gotten a chance to hear the whole series, we hope you’ve been able to take away some actionable items toward further peace in your life. Our last episode in the series is the perfect capper toward extending that ability to calm the chaos during the disruptive times of our lives, but also during the heartbreakingly difficult times. Our guest this week brings us the very comforting message that simply bucking up or trying to cheerlead ourselves into positivity isn't going to cut it. She gives us permission to actively accept our sadness, and then some tools for how to process it and move it from chaos to a place of peace. Katherine May is an international best-selling author, including the books Enchantment Awakening Wonder in An Anxious Age and Wintering: The Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times. Katherine is going to walk us through not only her own story of a hard winter season she endured, and what she learned, but she’ll show us how we can be gentle with ourselves and believe that we deserve peace, no matter the circumstances.

Jen and Katherine talk about:

When those winter seasons come, just when you think you can’t or will never be happy again and the dark pit feels too overwhelming; that’s typically when the winter begins to cease and recovery begins
Giving yourself grace to believe you haven’t done anything wrong if you’re still suffering a week, a month or even six months later - the process of unlearning your old ways of life and relearning new ones can be painful and lengthy
Not all the lessons we learn come from happiness, they come from sorrow, and how to accept that

Chaos doesn’t just emanate from choices that we've made or that we've onboarded too many things, but sometimes when tragedy or heartache has found its way to our doorstep. Allowing ourselves to rest and retreat at these times is a gift we can all give ourselves.

* * *

Thank you to our sponsors!

Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/forthelove

Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.

Caraway | Save 10% on your next purchase on all Caraway products by visiting carawayhome.com/forthelove and use code: forthelove

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“One of the defining parts of [a season of winter] is that feeling of being trapped in a space with a window onto the outside world. And it seems like everybody else is carrying on and they're all fine. And you are uniquely not fine.” - Katherine May

“There's something about how raw you are in that time [of suffering]. So there are moments of intense beauty that are an integral part of this, part of the suffering.”- Katherine May

“People who've gone through major winters always seem to look back and say, ‘do you know what? I wouldn't have not gone through it if it meant that I couldn't be who I am now.’ You almost appreciate them because change is always necessary.” - Katherine May

“You are not alone. You feel very alone, but you are actually part of a massive community of other people who are going through the same thing as you, but maybe for different reasons. And there's this incredible bond between all of you that might not be obvious, but you can trust this space and you can trust your sadness.” - Katherine May

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Enchantment: Awakening Wonder in an Anxious Age - book by Katherine May

Wintering, the Power of Rest and Retreat in Difficult Times - book by Katherine May

Guest’s Links:

Katherine’s Website

Katherine’s Instagram

Katherine’s Pinterest

Connect with Jen!: Jen’s website

Untangled by Dr. Lisa Damour

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The Emotional (and Sometimes Chaotic) Life of Teenagers with Dr. Lisa Damour May 24, 2023

Calling all parents of adolescents, or those of you who are about to have adolescents in your midst–if you’ve been feeling like you’re not sure what is normal in the emotional landscape of teenagers, we’re here to help. Face it—teenagers are literally in the epicenter of chaos–and because they live in our homes, sometimes it bleeds into our lives too. These kids are in developmental flux and there’s so much on them with school work, keeping up grades, extracurricular activities, friends (not to mention friend drama), anxiety about college—it’s a lot. But we can find ways to stand by them in their emotions, without getting too overcome with our own–and help them manage all this chaos in a way that serves them, and serves the whole family. Our guest this week is the perfect breath of calm in the midst of teen emotional chaos–she’s lived it, she studies it and she practices in it. Dr. Lisa Damour is a New York Times bestselling author who has written a book on the subject called The Emotional Lives of Teenagers, in addition to being an expert on adolescent development and family mental health. She and Jen hit the high points of:

The seven developmental tasks that teenagers face
Why the emotional world of teenagers is very different than during any other time in their life, and how they navigate emotions and how they express them
How to know when a teenager is having a mental health crisis or if it’s just a teenager being a teenager
How to manage a meltdown in nine steps

Dr. Lisa gives us actionable tools to help understand teenagers and gently guide them as they wade through the somewhat chaotic season of adolescence.

* * *

Thank you to our sponsors!

Betterhelp | 10% off your first month. Visit Betterhelp.com/forthelove

Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.

Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit https://thistlefarms.org

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“There is so much change in an incredibly short period of time. There are so many demands on that teenager in terms of how they're gonna grow, what is gonna be different between when they were 11 to 18. I mean, those are not the same people” - Dr. Lisa Damour

“Teenagers make choices that can have a very dramatic impact on what's available to them in young adulthood, in terms of their options” - Dr. Lisa Damour

"I think so often when we think we're listening, we're not listening. We're waiting for [our teenager] to pause so that we can make a suggestion. That's not listening." - Dr. Lisa Damour

"Once your kid is into adolescence and is more autonomous and wanting more independence, and they come in close and ask for support--savor it and set your watch by the fact that it is gonna end probably within the next 30 seconds and it's not gonna end in a nice way." - Dr. Lisa Damour

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Under Pressure by Dr. Lisa Damour

The Emotional Lives of Teenagers by Dr. Lisa Damour

The Ask Lisa Podcast

The Little Mermaid

Dr. Damour’s Bookmarks

Guest’s Links

Dr. Damour’s website

Dr. Damour’s Instagram

Dr. Damour’s YouTube Channel

Dr. Damour’s Twitter

Dr. Damour’s Facebook

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

The Next Right Thing Podcast

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Inviting Calm into Your Life and Home: Emily P. Freeman and Myquillyn Smith May 17, 2023

In our ongoing quest to squash the chaos in our lives, we’re talking to two experts (who are in fact sisters) who literally help us create space for our souls and our homes to breathe. Emily P. Freeman hosts the Do the Next Right Thing podcast where listeners flock to hear her soothing voice guide them with small ways to achieve mental clarity and avoid analysis paralysis when making decisions. Her sister, Myquillyn Smith, better known as The Nester, has the superpower of helping us create peace in the physical places we live with smart solutions that tweak our spaces to bring us calm–because when our homes feel out of control, our inner chaos rises as well.

Highlights from this discussion with Jen, Emily, and Myquillyn include:

How Emily and Myquillyn played with their Barbies as young girls was indicative of the roads they chose later in life
How sometimes the things that we are influenced to purchase to help us conquer chaos can become triggers for chaos (ie: THE BASKET PEOPLE)
How to not get bogged down with the pressure to plan your whole life, and how looking at past decisions can inform the decisions you make in the future
What it means to “quiet a room” in order to bring calm to your living spaces

Join Jen, Emily, and Myquillyn as we all seek a little refreshment for our lives and homes.

* * *

Thank you to our sponsors!

Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.

Thistle Farms | Use code For the Love for 15%off at checkout. Visit https://thistlefarms.org

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

"We would play Barbies—like I'm talking multiple levels of Barbie life. But the thing is, the way we moved through our Barbie life as kids echoes into adulthood. It is the way that we live our lives as grownups." - Emily P. Freeman

"Decision making and discernment is not something we can quit, ignore, graduate, retire from, or often delegate. It is always with us. Unfortunately, sometimes it's great, sometimes it's not. And let's not forget it is a great privilege to be able to make a choice at all." - Emily P. Freeman

"There are tons of studies about clutter and chaos and what it does to our literal heartbeat, the stress that we feel." - Myquillyn Smith

"Our best teachers for decisions we are going to make in the future are the decisions we've already made in the past." Emily P. Freeman

"The work of discernment is so much less about what should I do or not do? It's about can I trust myself?" - Emily P. Freeman

“If you think of every single singular item in your space, having a voice over the months, over the years, maybe decades—it gets louder and louder.” - Myquillyn Smith

“We think creating a beautiful home is about what we add in, but often it's about what we remove.” - Myquillyn Smith

“If you cannot put your decision into a sentence, then it is not time to make the decision yet.” - Emily P. Freeman

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

The Next Right Thing Book by Emily Freeman

The Next Right Thing Guided Journal by Emily Freeman

Emily P. Freeman's For the Love Podcast Episode

The Cozy Minimalist

17 Questions that Changed My Life by TIm Ferris

Iris Murdoch

Jamie B. Golden

Westmore Beauty 60sec Eye Effect

Guest’s Links:

Myquillyn's Link's

Myquillyn’s Website

Myquillyn’s Instagram

Emily's Link's

The Next Right Thing Podcast

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Road to Resilience Podcast

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Kerri Maher: “The Paris Bookseller” May 12, 2023

It’s time for a good spring read–and what could be better than taking a literary trip to Paris in the spring? We are so excited to introduce you to Kerri Maher, the brilliant author of our latest book club pick, 'The Paris Bookseller.' Kerri is a rising star in the literary world, known for her captivating historical fiction that transports readers to different times and places. Kerri is the author of several critically acclaimed novels, including 'The Kennedy Debutante' and 'The Girl in White Gloves,' which have been praised for their historical detail and complex characters. In ‘The Paris Bookseller’, Kerri takes us to post-WWI Paris, where Maher brings to life Sylvia Beach, the founder of the bookstore Shakespeare and Company. 'The Paris Bookseller' is a tribute to the power of literature and the strength of women. Come be a part of the conversation here with us, and if you aren’t already a member of the Jen Hatmaker Book Club, jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up!

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“It's amazing how much I learned about writing fiction from writing the truth.” - Kerri Maher

“I spent a lot of time in the research stage of that novel feeling inadequate. Who am I to write about these people? I'm just some housewife with five unpublished novels in my attic. And two writer friends from very different parts of my writing life responded to that comment in almost exactly the same way. They were like, ‘but Kerri, this is your novel, isn't it? I was and that was very liberating to me.” - Kerri Maher

“I've really had to embrace representing real people and real time periods. Yes,I want to absolutely do right by them. I want to kind of represent the truth of their essence.. But I also have to cop to the fact and respect the fact that these are my versions of these people.” - Kerri Maher

Kerri’s Links

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

The Kennedy Debutante book by Kerri Maher

The Girl in White Gloves book by Kerri Maher

All You Have to Do Is Call book by Kerri Maher The Paris Wife book by Paula McClain

A Moveable Feast book by Ernest Hemingway

Ulysses book by James Joyce

Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow book by Gabrielle Zevin

The House of Eve book by Sadeqa Johnson

The Midnight Library by Matt Haig

Connect with Jen!

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From Chaos to Healing: Stephanie Foo’s Experience with Complex PTSD May 10, 2023

Sometimes, bad things happen (obvi, right?). Many times, we know what’s happening to us in the moment is awful and wrong. We know that it’s painful. But sometimes, we don’t know how bad those things were until that pain shows up again in our lives, maybe years later, in a completely different way. And when these seemingly bad things come up, our lives are thrown into a tailspin—creating chaos and unhappiness and we’re not even even sure why. So how do we begin to identify the source of the darkness? How do we walk toward healing when the muck of our trauma is so deep we feel like we can’t move forward? Our guest this week has navigated through this very thing (and is still navigating it). The chaotic parts, the hard parts, the painful parts. Author and This American Life producer Stephanie Foo had found success in her thirties–working at her dream job and in a loving relationship. But behind her office door she was having panic attacks daily and sobbing at her desk. After years of questioning what was wrong (and blaming herself), she was diagnosed with complex PTSD–a condition that happens when trauma occurs again and again over many years. She was determined to understand this diagnosis, and the result of her findings is a beautiful and powerful memoir called What My Bones Know. Jen and Stephanie have an illuminating discussion around these topics:

The difference between PTSD and complex PTSD and why that’s an important distinction when it comes to healing
How an unresolved mental health issue can impact our physical health, which can manifest (as it did for Stephanie) in panic attacks, joint issues, migraines, and endometriosis.
How our traumas can be handed down through previous generations through our genes, but also through how we were (or weren’t) nurtured.
What it feels like to pull back the curtain on our coping mechanisms to reveal why we react to things the way we do, or why we put up walls in safe places with safe people

Join us for this very real, raw, but gentle conversation as Stephanie’s story sheds light on how to walk away from chaos into healing.

* * *

Thank you to our sponsors!

Chime | Visit https://www.chime.com/apply-debit/?ad=podcast_forthelove to learn how you can benefit by using chime

BetterHelp | Visit betterhelp.com/forthelove to save 10% on your first month!

Make Me Care About…Podcast | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“You can get traditional PTSD from a single traumatic event. So if you're in a car crash, you can get PTSD. Complex PTSD is kind of like if you were in that car crash every week for five years; it's when the trauma occurs over and over and over.” - Stephanie Foo

“I felt scared all the time and I was burning out at work. I felt unable to actually produce. It was around 2018, and work had always been my constant source of comfort. And no matter how depressed or anxious I was, I would always be able to be productive. So when I found myself struggling to do that, I felt sort of lost.” - Stephanie Foo

“I may have inherited my grandmother's desire and ability to hustle and that might be in my genes. It might be through nurture as well, not nature, and what I was taught as a child. It's kind of a mystery, but it certainly would explain a lot.” - Stephanie Foo

Guest’s Links:

Stephanie’s Website

Stepanie’s Instagram

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Complex PTSD

Malayan Emergency

Elissa Bassist

What My Bones Know - book by Stephanie Foo

What My Bones Know Audiobook

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Drama Free: Untangling Chaotic Relationships with Nedra Tawwab May 03, 2023

Welcome back, Chaos-breakers! We’re here trying to shake things up with another episode in our For the Love of Calming the Chaos–and this ones hitting us right where we live. Relationships; we’ve all got them, some we’re born into, others we choose, and others choose us. But what happens when certain relationships tax our energy, fill us with dread, and drain us of all ability to manage them? We have a great guide today to help us reframe relationships that have become dysfunctional, and how we can minimize the drama and chaos they bring. Therapist Nedra Tawwab is back on the show, and we couldn’t be happier. Nedra’s wildly popular Instagram account brings us life on the daily with her practical tips on recognizing when relationships are out of whack, how they might have gotten there, and how we can survive and thrive in the midst of it. Nedra has written two best selling books Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself, and Drama Free: A Guide to Managing Unhealthy Family Relationships. Nedra and Jen get into the following topics around eradicating relationship drama in our lives:

The sometimes difficult but very possible ways to begin creating healthy family dynamics
Finding the courage to have conversations with people when they hurt our feelings
How to create boundaries and what to do when those boundaries aren’t respected
Learning how to discern love from dysfunction in our relationships

Life is full of chaos and confusion, and it is important to find a balance between healthy relationships and self-care to maintain peace. Nedra provides us the tools to express ourselves, say no, and be open to uncomfortable conversations.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Being a human is a lot of content in and of itself.” - Nedra Tawwab

“Adulthood is really interesting because you have this opportunity to grow up and be your own person. But so many of us are still very much our parent's child. And I mean child in the sense that we’re a little child where [our parents] are still very much ruling what we’re able to do–at least when they're with us.” – Nedra Tawwab

“How often are we willing to have those conversations and let people know they hurt our feelings?” - Nedra Tawwab

“We all have a different capacity to tolerate dysfunctional things.” - Nedra Tawwab

“So we really have to disentangle love from dysfunction, because we often think that because I love these people, I have to accept the dysfunction.” - Nedra Tawwab

“We have to decide how much we are willing to give of ourselves to be in certain relationships with people, family.” - Nedra Tawwab

“The biggest thing we have to focus on is ourselves. And that's really hard because the really easy thing is to change the other person.” - Nedra Tawwab

Guest’s Links Nedra’s Website

Nedra’s Instagram

Nedra’s Facebook

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Set Boundaries, Find Peace book by Nedra Tawwab

Drama Free book by Nedra Tawwab

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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When Chaos Reveals Who You Really Are: Alexis Jones Apr 26, 2023

We’re kicking off a new series called For The Love of Calming the Chaos and we’re looking at all the ways chaos invades our lives, how to identify what’s causing it, and how we can forge a way to calmness (at least some of the time). It’s one thing to be busy, tackling the everyday things that need to happen, to feel like you are pulled in a million different directions. It’s another thing to be overwhelmed, where a sense of hopelessness creeps in that the storm of chaos that surrounds your days might never subside. Author and speaker Alexis Jones hit a wall in a life that looked amazing from the outside, but was teeming with chaos and fear on the inside. After several hard-hitting circumstances knocked the wind out of her, she found herself unable to take even the tiniest step forward after living a life that had been full of activity and accomplishments, checking off all the right boxes–and realized she had lost sight of who she really was. Her latest book Joy Hunter: Messy Face Plants, Radical Love, and the Journey That Changed Everything details the story of how she found her way back to herself in the midst of the chaos–and you can too.

Jen and Alexis talk about:

The moment Alexis realized how the “gift of falling apart” would show her what really mattered
When a tidal wave of chaos causes us to falter, how we can take steps to do something differently
What it means to be able to find true joy after true sorrow
How you can reconnect with a version of yourself that is real and authentic

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Thank you to our sponsors!

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Make Me Care About | Jen is hosting a special podcast series produced by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation. Check out "Make Me Care About..." wherever you get your podcasts.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“If I don't have these things that I can pull out of my back pocket and impress you with, then maybe I'm not extraordinary at all. And maybe I am simply an ordinary girl. And for me, that was never enough.” - Alexis Jones

“Every single thing that I'd ever thought made me matter, was taken away from me, one after another. And that was the most beautiful invitation I had ever been given to find out who I really was and to start that journey of enoughness.” - Alexis Jones

“We live in a society where it's so easy to numb. It's so easy to distract ourselves so that we don't have to feel all the feelings that are uncomfortable.” - Alexis Jones

“I did everything right. I played by the rules and I checked all the boxes and I did all the things. Aren't I supposed to be happy?” - Alexis Jones

“An ordinary experience like sitting in an RV, eating canned chili with my best friend and my husband, watching an old movie, and thinking, this is the most joyful I have felt in years.” - Alexis Jones

Guest’s Links Alexis’ Website

Alexis’ Instagram

Alexis’ Facebook

Alexis’ Twitter

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

I Am That Girl - book by Alexis Jones

Joy Hunter - book by Alexis Jones

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Suleika Jaouad's "Between Two Kingdoms" Apr 21, 2023

Suleika Jaouad joins our show today to discuss her extraordinary book "Between Two Kingdoms." Suleika shares her story of receiving an early-in-life cancer diagnosis and the way that experience changed her relationship to her sense of community and hope.

Suleika is a journalist, writer, speaker, and cancer survivor. She has written for The New York Times, Vogue, and NPR and her memoir “Between Two Kingdoms” details her journey of being treated and recovering from leukemia at the age of twenty two.

Join Jen and Suleika as they discuss the following:

Suleika's experience of being diagnosed with cancer at a young age and how it changed her perspective in life.
The vital role of community and support during challenging times, and how Suleika's own community rallied around her during her illness.
The challenges of writing a memoir and going from a journalist to a memoirist, professionally
How to practice self compassion while experiencing “Big Grief” in all it’s different stages

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I think as a culture we're so focused on positivity and self-improvement and on living our best lives that we sort of forget how to live in discomfort.” - Suleika Jouad

“We live in a culture where we're told that if we only work hard enough, we can live the life that we've always wanted to live. I've been told that my whole life. And you know, there's that saying that when you make plans, god laughs.” - Suleika Jouad

“I have a post-it note on my desk that's sort of my guiding light in terms of what I'm trying to do when I write. And it says, if you want to write a good book, write what you don't want others to know about you. Yeah. And if you want to write a great book, write what you don't want to know about yourself.” - Suleika Jouad

“With the distance of time, I see that what I initially thought of as a complete loss of my identity was actually an invitation to get closer to my truer self.” - Suleika Jouad

“I was a planner, I was a doer. I was someone who had a one year plan and a five year plan and a 10 year plan, and all of that went up in smoke when I got sick. Yeah. Um, and I realized that for much of my adult life, all four years of it at that point, uh, I really summed up my sense of self based on achievement, based on my work ethic, based on my output, based on my grade point average. Yep. And all of that was stripped away from me when I got sick. I lost my job overnight. I was dependent on my parents as much as I've been since elementary school. That's right. I lost my independence, even my ability to shower alone, which for someone who doesn't like to ask for help, who had always thought of myself as fiercely independent, that was a hard pill to swallow.” -Suleika Jouad

Guest Links Suleika Jouad Website

Suleika’s Instagram - @suleikajaouad

Suleika’s Twitter - @suleikajaouad

Suleik’s Facebook - @SuleikaJaouadPage

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode “Wolfish” by Erica Berry

“Heads of the Colored People” by Nafissa Thompson-Spires

“Nonviolent Communication” by Marshall B. Rosenberg PhD

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Facing the Challenges of the Sandwich Generation with Jenny Hutt Apr 19, 2023

Are you smack dab in the middle of the Sandwich Years? That precarious time where you’re squeezed between the demands of caring for aging parents and still supporting children? We’re here for you, and we’ve got a friend to the show who is living it out in real time, sharing how she’s getting through it all. Jenny Hutt was the host of the Just Jenny Show on Sirius XM and is now hosting her own daily podcast–all while dealing with the long-term care of her father (and his recent death) and the launching of her adult children out into the world. Jenny and Jen discuss unique issues relevant to the Sandwich Generation:

Learning to re-calibrate your role as a parent in the lives of your newly “launched into the world” kids
Dealing with unresolved parent/child issues that sometimes arise with the death of a parent
Recognizing generational anxiety and equipping ourselves and our children with the tools to handle it
The importance of relying on a strong network of family and friends to draw from during this time (not being afraid to ask for help).
Having the hard conversations with your parents about being prepared for their passing (and also making sure you’re taking care of that for your children too)

So whether you’re managing being part of the sandwich generation right now, or you’re mentally preparing yourself for it, or you know someone who is facing it head on, there’s something for all of us to take away from this candid and vulnerable convo with Jen and Jenny.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Somebody should have said to us before we had kidS: ‘you're gonna have children and you're gonna be tired and it's gonna be fun when they're babies, but it's also gonna be awful when they're babies. And then, they're gonna grow up and they're gonna leave you. And when they leave you, you're gonna feel like they're gone for good. And you're also gonna feel like you are not gonna make it.’” - Jenny Hutt

“While your parents are still healthy is when you have to have the conversation [about their affairs] and it's pretty simple. It's things like if there are bank accounts, designate somebody to automatically have the bank account upon your death.” - Jenny Hutt

“Ask [your older parents] all the questions you want answers to, because if you don't ask them now, as uncomfortable as they might be, you're never gonna be able to ask them.” - Jenny Hutt

“We all find our purpose at different points in our lives. I think that one of my biggest purposes is to show that you can live through things that feel like you can't live through them.” - Jenny Hutt

Guest’s Links Website

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Bunny Eyez Eyewear

For You When I Am Gone by Rabbi Steve Leder

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BONUS] Gates Foundation: Make Me Care About…Maternal Mortality Apr 14, 2023

Another special bonus episode from the “Make Me Care About” podcast from the Gates Foundation with our own Jen Hatmaker talking with another amazing expert about things we may not know about and if we did–we would definitely care! When it goes well, giving birth can be a wonderful experience, but when it goes wrong, it can be deadly for mother and child alike. Too often, where you live, your access to quality care, and in some places–the color of your skin–determines whether or not you live or die during birth.

In this episode, we have the privilege of hearing from journalist, activist, and mom Elaine Welteroth.

Join Jen and Elaine as they discuss:

How many women die every year during childbirth and pregnancy
The factors and risks contributing to mortality rates
Why these deaths are preventable
The increased likelihood of death for Black mothers
Why the United States has the highest number of maternal deaths among high income countries

Gates Foundation & Guest Links

Make Me Care About Podcast Series

Gates Foundation

Elaine Welteroth’s website

Resources for this Episode

Gender equality strategy

Maternal, infant, and child health

Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Conscious Parenting Toward a Better Future For Us All with Dr. Shefali Tsabary Apr 12, 2023

In this episode of our For the Love of the Middle series, renowned clinical psychologist Dr. Shefali returns to the show to discuss her concept of conscious parenting. Those of us in the middle of life who may still be parenting kids at home, or adjusting to parenting adult children who have just launched out into the world–or in any season of the parenting journey, really–will find much to learn as we look back (and forward) at our parenting patterns. Dr. Shefali provides a step-by-step roadmap to help free parents and their children from toxic patterns and expectations, while building a lasting meaningful bond with them. Using her book as a guide, she will introduce us to the five patterns of ego, show us some varying parenting styles (including helping Jen unpack her own parenting style), develop a mindful focus on self-control, and tips on how we can encourage our adult children to parent themselves. Jen and the good doctor will hit some big topics that will inform not only parents, but those of us who wish to discover how we were parented, and how it impacts us now; including:

Walking through the definition of conscious parenting and the three stages of the parenting map
Debunking the notion that as parents we are supposed to create happy, perfect superhumans by following traditional parenting rules
Dismissing the notion that there are good kids and bad kids—and how to avoid using these labels
Revealing the five ego patterns parents that parents might not even realize inform their quest to raise amazing children
The three reasons why children act out or misbehave and how you can learn not to shame them for it
The results of over-parenting and how it shows up in your adult children

It’s never too late to become a mindful parent and set an intention to allow your children to become centerstage in their own lives.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“The evolution of the planet depends on the evolution of the parent.” - Dr. Shefali

“Everyone wants a new tomorrow. But what we don't realize is that a new future comes with an absolute willingness to disrupt the past.” - Dr. Shefali

“There is no such thing as a good kid or a bad kid. We put these labels based on an egoic agenda. So, what kind of kids are there? Just kids–just humans who are terribly flawed like we are, and terribly, but amazingly blissful like we are. They're just this unique combo and they defy labels.” - Dr. Shefali

“The good girl taken to the extreme becomes self-sacrificial and she begins to lose her sense of self–it typically happens with girls. Then she's in her mid forties and she's like, ‘who am I?’” - Dr. Shefali

“Conscious parenting is not something you are, it's something you become.” - Dr. Shefali

“Punishment, shaming, blaming is never sustainable. I cannot tell you how many times a day I tell parents, ‘Listen, you appear to get control in the moment, but long term, it's going to be unforgiving.’” - Dr. Shefali

“How do we constantly show our presence [to our adult children]? Unequivocal cheerleading. ‘I'm thinking of you. I miss you. I'm remembering you. I I adore you.’ Letting them know they are on our mind, but not involved in their day-to-day. - Dr. Shefali

“When the ego crumbles, proportionately the heart expands, and you then are just this heart-centered being able to connect to other people in a very attuned, compassionate, genuine way. And your children will feel it.” - Dr. Shefali

Guest’s Links

Dr. Shefali’s website

Dr. Shefali’s Instagram

Dr. Shefali’s Facebook

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

“The Conscious Parent” by Dr. Shefali

“The Parenting Map” by Dr. Shefali

Dr. Shefali’s previous interview on For the Love

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BONUS] Gates Foundation: Make Me Care About…Syringes Apr 07, 2023

Another special bonus episode from the “Make Me Care About” podcast from the Gates Foundation with our own Jen Hatmaker talking with another amazing expert about things we may not know or care about, but should! This episode gives us the privilege of speaking with Surabhi Rajaram, a Program Officer at the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation who focuses on improving immunization delivery. We dive deep into the world of safe syringes, and why they are so important in saving lives.

Surabhi Rajaram is a true expert in her field, with years of experience at the forefront of improving global health. Today she shares her knowledge on the features of an auto-disabled syringe, and how it physically prevents the user from being able to withdraw the syringe again, ultimately preventing the spread of illness.

Join Jen and Surabhi as they discuss:

Why safe syringes are so important to effective vaccine delivery
The importance of investing in scalable syringe manufacturing
Improving immunization delivery for a safer world
How preparing for disease threats like COVID requires syringe innovation

Our guest shares their life’s work around investing in safe and effective syringe manufacturing and delivery and how each of us can make a difference in the world of global health by learning more about this important topic.

Gates Foundation & Guest Links

Make Me Care About Podcast Series

Gates Foundation

Guest Surabhi Rajaram’s website

Resources for this Episode

Vaccine Development and Surveillance

Long Term Vaccine Development in Africa

PATH Syringe GAP analysis

UNICEF Syringes explainer video

Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Not A Burden: Michelle Boyaner on Showing Up for Aging Parents Apr 05, 2023

Continuing in our For the Love of the Middle series, we’re having a conversation about something that may impact us as we hit those middle years (or sooner)–caring for our aging parents. With us to be our guide through this sometimes difficult journey is Michelle Boyaner, the director of the documentary film "It's Not a Burden: The Humor and Heartache of Raising Elderly Parents.” As a storyteller, Michelle felt compelled to talk about this particular stage of life, and decided to film her own journey through it with her mother to help others embrace this unique time in a family’s evolution. Jen and Michelle explore the highs and the lows of caregiving for aging parents and how to stay sane and open hearted during the process.

Michelle Boyaner is an award-winning filmmaker, writer, and educator who founded production company Greenie Films with her wife, Barbara Greene. Together they have written, directed and produced a variety of short and feature films that tell stories of caring for aging parents, living with HIV and the challenges of mental illness–all told with their signature humor and deep capacity for compassion.

Join Jen and Michelle as they discuss:

How to know when it's time to step in with your aging parents
Honoring and managing your parents feelings of not wanting to be a burden
Finding humor in the challenging moments
Why caregivers feel so lonely, even when there are so many in the U.S.
Moving from anger and frustration with difficult parental relationships to forgiveness

We hope you’ll feel less alone on your caregiving journey as Michelle provides practical advice and encouragement as well as some tough love for those in the middle of this common but not often discussed major life experience.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“How do you know it’s the right time to step in? If you see a cognitive difference, if there's a change like they're forgetting things–for example, my mom left her keys on the top of the car and sat in the car and didn't know why she couldn't start the car. That’s when you might want to consider stepping in. But how do I start that conversation? How can I place my hand on theirs and then gently sort of take the reins? It’s a tough thing to consider.” - Michelle Boyaner

“By the time we get to this place in life [of caring for our] parents, you are playing a montage of their greatest hits and misses, right?” - Michelle Boyaner

“It’s important to stay engaged with the humor of all situations if you can. That humor is this little cup of water that helps us in between the hard moments. Caring for aging parents has its absurd moments and leaning into the humor of it can sustain us.” - Michelle Boyaner

“You're going to make mistakes. But the thing that becomes most important for those going through caring for an aging parent is to try to find support. Try to find others who have been going through the same thing and ask questions. Talk about how you're feeling. Take care of yourself to fill your tank so that you can help fill your parents' tank.” - Michelle Boyaner

Michelle’s Links

Greenie Films: Packed in a Trunk: The Lost Art of Edith Lake Wilkinson, It’s Not a Burden; The Humor and Heartache of Raising Elderly Parents, All Around the Nation, Finished Life by Michelle Boyaner

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Greenie Films Webpage

Instagram Account by Heather Spooner: Letter League

Liz Hammond’s Poem: “The women who walk us home”

Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BONUS] Gates Foundation: Make Me Care About…Poop! Mar 30, 2023

Hey there, For the Love Podcast community! We’re excited to share some bonus episodes from a new podcast from the Gates Foundation, hosted by our very own Jen Hatmaker! It's all about getting to know the innovators who are out there changing the world and opening our minds to things that we might not otherwise think about much, like this first episode–poop! You can look forward to several of these bonus episodes popping into your feed that feature amazing conversations with experts who have shared their insights on the importance of things like sanitation systems, syringes, and even digital money.

Our first episode in the series is all about…Poop! Jen speaks with expert Shannon Yee, an associate professor at the G.W.W. School of Mechanical Engineering at the Georgia Institute of Technology.

Jen and Shannon discuss:

How safe sanitation is a cornerstone of human health and society.
Where poop goes when it leaves our bathrooms.
The importance of investing in safe, scalable bathroom technologies now for future generations
When will water scarcity impact our bathrooms and what to do about it.

Find out about what happens every time you flush in this very special debut episode.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Loneliness and Empty Nesting in the Middle Years with Dr. Jim Burns Mar 29, 2023

We’re back in the middle of life with another installment of our “For the Love of the Middle” series. This episode marks the return of the amazing Dr. Jim Burns to the show. He is an author and founder of HomeWord, a non-profit organization aimed at helping families and individuals strengthen their relationships. Dr. Burns has over three decades of experience as a speaker and is the author of books such as “Life With Your Adult Children” and “Finding Joy in the Empty Nest”.

With his typical humor and self-awareness, Dr. Burns draws from his own experiences as a father in the middle of life–and also shares insights from his vast experience working with families and individuals. In this interview he touches on topics like loneliness in older adults, coping with post-divorce friendships, and enabling versus helping your adult children.

Join Jen and Dr. Jim Burns as they discuss:

Navigating the loneliness felt by those 50 and older and how to prepare for that early on.
Finding meaningful friendships as a single person in a coupled world.
Giving advice to adult children without sounding critical.
When helping becomes enabling with adult children.
Easing the burden of the Empty Nest by investing in hobbies and community.

Jen and Dr. Burns offer practical advice for maintaining and cultivating adult friendships and how to move through the challenges of parenting adult children with grace.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“One of the positive things that I saw was that the people who had good adult friends are the people who did well early on and made decisions to join a club and put themselves out there to meet people outside of the soccer games and kid friends. That planning in advance really helped with the empty nest syndrome.” -Dr. Jim Burns

“American adults at 50+ tend to be very lonely people. In fact, there's a lot of studies on this and it's because they don't have replenishing relationships.You know, one of the best phrases that I have in my head on this is, a you know, successful and a well lived life is never accidental. And that takes time.” -Dr. Jim Burns

“If we are always giving our kids advice, which we have been pretty good at for 20 of their years, that advice can be taken as criticism. Even if it's good advice! What they see is that you don't trust them to be an adult.” -Dr. Jim Burns

“What we have to understand as parents, just like when they were five, is that the experience is a better teacher than advice. So you can say to your kid, "Don't touch that fire." But they're gonna touch the fire sometime and then they'll quit touching the fire because they did it one time and it burnt. But it's really hard for us as parents to trust them to learn from their own experiences.” -Dr. Jim Burns

“As a parent, the question we have to ask is, are we helping or are we enabling dependency? And a lot of parents I think are enabling dependency as in, they mean to help. But sometimes we're enabling dependency and doing that in a way that doesn't help.” - Dr. Jim Burns

Jim’s Links

Website: www.homeword.com

Facebook: @JimBurns

Twitter: @DrJimBurns

Instagram: @drjimburns

YouTube: @homewordtoday

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Homeward

New Life Live

Dr. Burns Books: Finding Joy in the Empty Nest, Life with Your Adult Children

Dr. Burns on Jen Hatmaker in 2018

Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website

Mary Pipher's Books: Hunger Pains, the American Woman's Tragic Quest for Thinness, Reviving Ophelia, Women Rowing North, Seeking Peace, The Shelter of Each Other

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Psychologist Mary Pipher on Flourishing as We Age Mar 22, 2023

It’s here! Our next series, “For the Love of the Middle” kicks off this week. Many of us are at that middle stage of life, and if we aren’t, we’re going to get there eventually. This series brings life, hope and humor to a period of life which can at times be surprising, confusing, but ultimately, steeped in the wisdom of years lived and the harder work of our 20’s and 30’s behind us. We’re ringing in the start of this series with an amazing first guest; Mary Pipher, a clinical psychologist, anthropologist, and author. In her full scope of work, Mary has pioneered important conversations around motherhood and raising girls.

Mary was the first to bring the effects of culture on mental health to the mainstream, especially for women and girls. She has a deep understanding of how culture can shape our thoughts, feelings, and behavior. Her most recent work has focused on aging intentionally, peppered with her own experience and her work has inspired many people to rethink the way we approach mental health and aging within our society.

Join Mary and Jen as they discuss:

- Pipher's background in psychology and how she became engaged in the cultural conversations about girlhood.

- The importance of cultivating personal resilience and adaptability in aging.

- How society impacts the mental health of girls and women at different stages of life.

- The cultural scripts that influence girls' body image and sexuality, and how they differ from reality.

- The role of caregivers and the challenges they face in taking care of aging family members.

Mary Pipher's work is groundbreaking in exploring the connections between culture, mental health, and their impacts on aging. Her insights are instrumental in shaping the way we approach mental health issues and caregiving, and her activism and writing continue to help women all over the world.

Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes!

“One of the things I really love about my life as a 75 year old is I'm very busy, but I can wake up every morning and decide what I want to be busy at. And what a gift that is.” - Mary Pipher

“Every life stage has its joys and its challenges as you know. We know that there's a lot of research that women get happier as they age. They're the happiest demographic in the world.” - Mary Pipher

“if you don't become better, you become bitter. Right? You either grow or you shrink. You don't get to stay the same without growing. We all age, but we don't all grow. And the secret of being happy is growing.” -Mary Pipher

“I very much believe we all find what we're looking for. And if what we're looking for is joy and love and kindness and beauty and laughter, that's what we find.” -Mary Pipher

“So one of the goals of this life state is learning to detach and let go--acceptance of the fact that my world will not be as popular as before. And that means that the light I find is not in other people's eyes, it's gotta be in my own heart.” -Mary Pipher

Guest’s Links! Mary Pipher's Website - www.marypipher.com

Mary Pipher's Facebook - @authormarypiper

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Simone De Beauvoir: The Second Sex

Jane Jarvis - American Jazz Pianist

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

Dr. Solomon’s books: Loving Bravely & Taking Sexy Back

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Getting Cliterate! Closing the Orgasm Gap Toward Female Sexual Fulfillment with Dr. Alexandra Solomon. Mar 15, 2023

Every person is sexy just because they’re alive, according to this week’s guest in our For the Love of Sex Series; Dr. Alexandra Solomon. Jen & Dr. Solomon talk about how we can discover how to engage with our sexuality free from judgment or expectation.

Dr. Alexandra Solomon is the author of bestselling books, “Loving Bravely” and “Taking Sexy Back” which both seek to empower women to reclaim their sexual journeys. As a highly acclaimed psychologist at Northwestern University, Dr. Solomon regularly presents her findings to people all over the world.

Join Dr. Solomon and Jen as they discuss:

Talking about sex with your partner
How to stop settling for less in the bedroom
Objectively reflecting on your sexual journey without judgment
The real impact of trauma on our sexual selves
How desire shifts over the course of a relationship

Dr. Solomon explains the basic premise that undergirds her work; that every person has the right and ability to experience pleasure and joy and connection through sex.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“What stands out first and foremost about women and sex is that we are so completely objectified from the time we're little. That's the nature of patriarchy, is to objectify women. And we learn to objectify ourselves. I don't know how it is for you, but I know I have forever related to my body as a forever fixer-upper project.”- Dr. Alexandra Solomon

“There's an idea that sexiness is defined from the outside in. So in my book, "Taking Sexy Back," that's what we're taking back. We're taking back this idea that sexiness is externally defined. That actually, our “sexy” lives right here inside of us, and it always has. Your sexuality is a part of yourself. It's a part of who you are. It's your embodied relationship with touch and physical expression and pleasure and creativity and play.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon

“There's going to be dry spells. There's going to be mismatched libidos. There's going to be menopause. There's going to be childbirth and job changes and medical diagnoses. Things are going to happen. So I want couples to be together, shoulder to shoulder, looking at the problem together. It's not my problem or your problem. It's us looking at our sexual connection. How do we as a couple cultivate this, nurture it, tweak it over time? Making love as 50-year-olds is going to look and feel different than making love as 23-year-olds.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon

“We think that if we're sex positive, it means that we're these super confident vixens and divas, and that we have to be up for anything. But we all struggle with this idea of, "Wait, can I be sex positive and a bit timid? Can I be sex positive and what we would call, quote-unquote, 'vanilla,' or not super interested in being kinky or pushing edges? Sex positivity basically means coming in with the idea that sex is natural and normal, and we're all sexual, and what we're interested in is not weird or pathological. It's coming in from a foundation of positivity.” - Dr. Alexandra Solomon

Guest’s Links:

Dr. Solomon’s Website

Dr. Solomon’s Instagram - @dr.alexandra.solomon

Dr. Solomon’s Twitter - @ahsolomon

Dr. Solomon’s Facebook - @dralexandrasolomon

Dr. Solomon’s YouTube - @alexandrahs1

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Reimagining Love Podcast

E-Course: Marriage 101 for the Grown and Sexy

Connect with Jen!

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Emily Nagoski: “Come As You Are” Mar 10, 2023

As part of Jen’s dedication to bringing her community sex education and sexual liberation, we’re opening up a book club episode to everyone. Today Jen’s talking to the original badass sex educator — Emily Nagoski.

Emily created a sea change in the wider culture of how we talk about women’s sexuality and make space for the variety of experiences for women and sex. Since then, she’s become a celebrated speaker and the go-to expert on women’s sexuality. She recently updated “Come as You Are” as the sex science evolved and we’re excited to talk about it.

In this Jen Hatmaker Book Club episode, Jen and Emily discuss:

Sex not being a biological drive
Connecting to your own body as a birthright
Your sexuality being yours and pleasure is the measure of it
The weight on women to perform pleasure
The power of mindfulness and connecting to your body
How to maintain a successful long term sexual relationship with a partner

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Pleasure is the measure. It is not how often you have sex or how much you crave sex. It is not what you do. It is not who you do it with, or in what room, or in what position. It is whether or not you like the sex you are having.” - Emily Nagoski

“If a feeling happens in you and you're like, "I don't know where this is coming from," that's totally fine. Insight is not required. But in the same way that we complete the stress response cycle, feelings are tunnels, you have to go through the darkness to get to the light at the end.” - Emily Nagoski

“We are in a bad moment around trans rights, around gay rights, around reproductive rights. A very dark moment where misogyny is rising, violence against the LGBTQIA2+ community is rising, and I think a conversation that centers with women's sexual pleasure is a very moderate place to be having a conversation. People can have a conversation and feel confident talking about their own sexual pleasure, which makes it easier to recognize that, "Oh, everyone has a right to this. Everyone has a right to basic bodily autonomy. Everyone has a right to experience the pleasure their body is capable of experiencing." - Emily Nagoski

“When you release pain, it means you have to move through this pain, and a lot of us have spent a very long time hiding from, or medicating, or just tolerating an incredible, intense amount of pain and suffering that was imposed on us, that we never chose for ourselves, and we know that we can just keep marching forward with that pain. And the first dip your toe into processing those difficult experiences feels terrifying.” - Emily Nagoski

“bodies are a disappointment sometimes. They are complicated, and people have feelings about them, but you get this life, your body is the one and only thing you have on the day you're born, that you still have with you on the day you die, and it's the gift that there is of living a human life.” - Emily Nagoski

“There's not a linear progression from broken to normal to perfect. That is not how sex works. We are all always moving through the cycle from the wounds that were created in our bodies in the first couple few decades of our lives to the healing that we're doing for ourselves now.” - Emily Nagoski

Guest Links Dr. Emily’s Website

Dr. Emily’s Instagram

Dr. Emily’s Facebook

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode Burnout: The Secret to Unlocking the Stress Cycle Book

Come as You Are Book

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How Radical Self Acceptance Impacts Our Sex Lives with Brandon Kyle Goodman Mar 08, 2023

As our guest today says, “Everybody is here because somebody had sex.” Today we talk to Brandon Kyle Goodman about coming out from the shadows of your own desire. We’re looking at a new era of sex positivity in pop culture and in our lives. In this episode we explore themes from Brandon’s book: You Gotta Be You: How to Embrace This Messy Life and Step Into Who You Really Are.

Listen as Jen and Brandon discuss:

Sex in Culture, The Importance of Diverse Representation
Subverting Gender Norms in the Bedroom
Understanding Brandon’s Non-Binary Gender Identity
Exploring your Sexual Identity with Radical Self Acceptance and Love
Coming Out and the Importance of Chosen Family

It’s a new day for sex in our media, our bedrooms, and in our minds and hearts! This conversation illustrates the unbelievable freedom to be found in honoring your sexual identity. Share a moment with Jen and Brandon as they walk the path towards personal sexual liberation and finding peace within yourself.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I fully believe that if you can tap into the vulnerability in the bedroom, you'll find your power everywhere else.” - Brandon Kyle Goodman

“I always say self-love is the thing that saved my life. It is real. Loving yourself and knowing that you're worthy and filling your cup up. Pop culture tells you that your body, your skin, your gender is wrong. It is a radical act to love yourself in our world, but get about the business because on the other side of that is a life worth living.” - Brandon Kyle Goodman

“All of us exist because somebody had sex. That's how this works. That's why you're here, so why are we pretending our parents don't do it? It's all as you said, it's a separate thing. It's put in a box and we don’t talk about it. Why can't we all be talking and learning and exploring and saying, "Oh, how did you ask about that? How did you get him to do that? How did you get her to do that? How did you navigate this?" The more we don't talk about it, the more shame we have, and so sex positivity is so important.” -Brandon Kyle Goodman

“There's so much shame I think that queer folks inherently have around their sexuality. I think women also have this. No, I don't think–I know women also have this. Our bodies are policed, our sexuality is policed.” - Brandon Kyle Goodman

“I would say you have one life. Are you going to live it for you? Or you can live it for somebody else. I had a teacher who was in the closet and I found out after his mother passed that he finally came out, but at that point, he was in his 50s, and now it's this whole life that you've missed for this other person. Do it in your own time, but don't miss out on your life for somebody else's approval.” -Brandon Kyle Goodman

“Let's hold multiple truths. Multiple things get to be true. The freedom to be you can be liberating and allow you to live your best life, but also there is a pain and a sadness and a longing from losing the people that may not be able to support you on that journey.” -Brandon Kyle Goodman

Brandon’s Links

Website: www.brandonkylegoodman.com

Insta: @brandonkylegoodman

Twitter: @brandonkgood

Youtube: @brandonkgood

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Brandon Kyle Goodman acts and writes for shows: Big Mouth, and Human Resources on Netflix

Brandon Kyle Goodman’s Book “You Gotta Be You: How to Embrace This Messy Life and Step Into Who You Really Are”

Tricia Hersey’s Book “The Nap Ministry”

The Nap Ministry’s Instagram

Connect with Jen!

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Dismantling Toxic Masculinity Toward Better Sex with Sex Coach and Therapist Cam Fraser Mar 01, 2023

For this episode of the Sex series, we’re getting some adult sex education we wished we had learned when we were younger. Specifically around messages young men received around sex, and how this now manifests with toxic masculinity which unfortunately, seeps into the bedroom. Our guest today helps us find ways we can change these sexual narratives. While not all of us are in sexual relationships with men, the reality is that the way in which men perceive their status in the bedroom affects their roles outside of the bedroom. And when toxic masculinity is driving that inner monologue, we all lose. So today we’re addressing the ways this can affect us all, not only the cis hetero men in our lives.

A licensed sex coach and therapist, Cam Fraser teaches sex education for cis hetero men and their partners. As someone who has been hurt by unhealthy masculine culture, he’s passionate about changing toxic masculine narratives that affect us all, and freeing men up to be the fully realized humans they are longing to be (whether they know it or not).

In this episode, Cam and Jen discuss:

Ideas on how to start conversations with your partner about sex
Desire discrepancies in relationships and the difference between responsive and spontaneous libido
Taking responsibility for your own arousal
The spectrum of intimacy inside and outside the bedroom
Unhealthy sexual narratives that feed toxic masculinity

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Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

"I think that it is a very detrimental story we are telling each other as men--that men's libido is high and unwavering and it's just purely physical, there's no emotions attached to it--men just want sex all the time. And women are telling men that too because we all got that same story." - Cam Fraser

“Overall we see a lot of over-pathologizing, over-medicalizing of male sexuality. I think that's a real issue, but one of the major ones I see is, "Oh, I'm not man enough because I don't want sex all the time," or, "I'm not jumping my partner every five minutes, so I must be broken.” - Cam Fraser

“It's important to understand. There's a difference between physical arousal and mental subjective arousal.” - Cam Fraser

“I think we live in quite a sex and pleasure negative society. And so conversations around sex are still, even though we're pushing for them to be more mainstream, they're still considered quite taboo.” - Cam Fraser

“Conversations around sex can be really charged. If you're able to take some of the intensity out of those conversations and take some of the seriousness out of those conversations and keep it a little bit more playful, keep it a little bit more curious and lighthearted, then that's going to serve you well.” - Cam Fraser

“There is a need for men to diversify their intimacy in terms of how they get their intimacy needs met.” - Cam Fraser

“It's super important to have intimacy needs met in a diverse amount of ways. Because if you don't and then you get into a relationship and your partner is the only person that you can do that with, you're putting a lot of pressure and responsibility on your own as well and that can be detrimental to a relationship.” - Cam Fraser

Cam’s Links

Cam's Instagram - @thecamfraser

Cam's TikTok - @thecamfraser2.0

Cam’s Website

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Dan Savage Website

Brené Brown's episode with Jen Hatmaker

Trevor Noah on Lack of Male Intimacy

Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s “In My Own Words” with Mary Hartnett Feb 24, 2023

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For January 2023 we’re excited to connect with an author who worked with Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg and penned a book featuring her many writings and thoughts titled My Own Words.. As one of Judge Ginsburg’s official biographers, Mary selected the writings and co-wrote the introductions to each chapter, providing biographical context and quotes gleaned from hundreds of interviews they had the pleasure of conducting the illustrious RGB. She shares about the special moments she had with the judge herself, in addition to some of her more notable writings, which are truly inspiring.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Sometimes I think people become famous and important, and then they say, ‘Okay, now I can throw a few scraps.’ But this was not [Ruth Bader Ginsburg] from the very beginning. Even in her very first briefs, she would cite in the brief, or even put as an author of the brief, someone whose work she found incredibly important with their permission, even though they had nothing to do with the case. It meant a lot to her to give credit to others who had inspired her. “ - Mary Hartnett

“[Judge Ginsburg] did see that especially for younger people, learning the story and in really challenging times to represent this idea that things still can be better and more fair for everyone in the future, I think she got that.” - Mary Hartnett

“[Judge Ginsburg] strongly believed that gender equality is good for everyone. Gender discrimination hurts everyone. It hurts men, women, others, children, our society, our country, our world. And so she firmly believed that.” - Mary Hartnett

“Change wasn't just this intellectual thing that mattered to her. It was changing individuals' lives so that a young girl could hope to be a Supreme Court Justice or an astronaut. Not just a boy could have those hopes and dreams.” - Mary Hartnett

“Everyone can't be Ruth Bader Ginsburg, but everyone can do something on the issues that they care about, which may be completely different than the issues that she cared about.” - Mary Hartnett

Guest’s Links

Mary Hartnett Author Page

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Sex and Consent with Film & TV Intimacy Coordinator Jessica Steinrock Feb 22, 2023

As part of our For the Love of Sex series, we are talking to a Hollywood intimacy coordinator about the nitty gritty of consent, the emerging role of intimacy coordinators in Hollywood, and the future of creating consent culture on film and TV sets. There are ripple effects into the wider culture at large that happen when we prioritize safety and consent.

A viral content creator on TikTok and CEO of her own company, Jessica Steinrock is helping change the way we understand consent on TV & film sets. Our favorite quote of hers is ‘’‘Yes’ means nothing unless ‘No’ is an option.”

In this episode, Jessica and Jen discuss:

The historical context of consent in film and TV
How intimacy coordinators cultivate consent
Jessica’s definition of consent
The power of pairing media literacy and sex education

With her own company, Jessica is providing a framework for how we can experience consent in a variety of workplaces and helping change the way an entire industry approaches consent.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Boll & Branch | Use promo code FortheLove and get 15% off your first set of sheets

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

"When actors have a sense of what's going to happen to their bodies, they know the arc of the scene. They have a time to think about how their character would want or move in those positions. They then layer on their acting onto this movement scaffold. And we create a better story. Because when actors are safe, they do their best work." - Jessica Steinrock

"I love steamy scenes. I love spicy scenes. I am a romantic connoisseur in my media. I love it all. And I think what makes me love it though is knowing that these actors are safe while doing that, these actors are excited to tell those stories. That they weren't coerced into doing it because they think it's going to give them their break." - Jessica Steinrock

“[intimacy coordination] is a relatively new field and a rare field where women are the majority. What we need to see is a more diverse pool of intimacy coordinators. So, that we have more of those voices impacting and supporting women of color, black trans women, actors who have historically marginalized characteristics.” - Jessica Steinrock

Jessica’s Links

Jessica's Instagram - @intimacy_coordinator_

Jessica's TikTok - @intimacycoordinator

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Intimacy Directors and Coordinators Website

SAG-ATRA Intimacy Coordinator Resources

Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Your Brain as a Sex Organ with Dipsea’s Gina Gutierrez Feb 15, 2023

“Good girls”, “naughty girls”, women with too tight skirts or too high heels. Women’s sexuality is being scrutinized and judged by forces outside of ourselves no matter what form it takes. Our guest today is Gina Gutierrez who seeks to empower women to stop listening to these outside voices and start listening to our inner eros by tuning in and turning on with audio erotica. We could not be more…excited.

TedX speaker with over 1M views, and member of the Forbes Under 30 2020 list, Gina Gutierrez is celebrated for her work focusing on using the imagination to ignite women’s sexuality. With her co-founder Faye Keegan she created the app Dipsea to help women define their desire in an empowered way through audio erotica stories.

In this episode Gina and Jen discuss:

The link between sexual fulfillment and the imagination
Celebrating selfishness in prioritizing sexual pleasure
Uncovering and healing the shame of “feeling different”
How embracing the erotic gives us our power

With Dipsea, Gina is helping provide a framework for how we can safely explore our fantasies and prioritize our own pleasure resulting in us being better lovers, caregivers and friends.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Thistle Farms | Visit ThistleFarms.org and use promo code FortheLove to get 15% off your order

Better Help | Visit BetterHelp.com/ForTheLove to get 10% off your first month

Jen Hatmaker & Friends Cruise | Book your spot now at JenHatmaker.com/cruise

Thought-Provoking Quotes

"Desire isn't a problem to be solved — it's a fire to be stoked." - Gina Gutierrez

"The brain is the biggest sex organ and everyone can benefit from expanding their sexual imagination." - Gina Gutierrez

“This idea of just giving up on what's possible to make you feel good and excited and make you want to turn towards your partner versus away from them or whatever it means to you, that felt like such a loss.” - Gina Gutierrez

“Nobody ever suggested to us that it was important or valuable to find out what turns us on ever. That was nothing that was ever suggested to us. In fact, it was kind of the opposite. A lot of us came up feeling like this is not something good girls say, we do not have this conversation.”

- Gina Gutierrez

“Maybe you don't have less of an interest in sex than you thought. Maybe you function differently than you thought. And maybe actually products, experiences, and stories that made you feel more comfortable and made your brakes less, 'I don't want that,' stop slamming your brakes so much could make you relax into pleasure." - Gina Gutierrez

Dipsea’s Links Dipsea Website - www.DipseaStories.com

Dipsea Facebook - @DipseaStories

Dipsea Twitter - @DipseaStories

Dipsea Instagram - @DipseaStories

Dipsea TikTok - @DipseaStories

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Dipsea Website with Jen’s Link (dipseastories.com/jenhatmaker)

Ted Talk by Gina Gutierrez

A Billion Wicked Thoughts

Dr. Emily Nagoski: Come As You Are

Dr. Emily Nagoski - For the Love Podcast Episode

Dr. Emily Nagoski: Podcast

Audre Lorde reads Uses of the Erotic: The Erotic as Power on YouTube

Audre Lorde’s “Uses of the Erotic: The Erotic as Power” Essay Text

OMG Yes - The Science of Women's Pleasure

Jen’s FTL Enneagram Series

Connect with Jen! Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Unraveling the Grip of Shame on Our Sex Lives with Matthias Roberts Feb 08, 2023

Welcome to our first episode in our For the Love of Sex series! We’re excited to break open this topic and find ways to cultivate what sexual health means for each of us and lay down toxic perspectives surrounding sex in our lives. Today we’re talking about sexual shame and how that can show inside and outside the bedroom. Matthias Roberts is a psychotherapist, author and podcaster. He wrote a book on sexual shame called “Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms” and is committed to helping people find freedom feeling shame around sex.

Jen and Matthias discuss:

A working definition of what sexual shame is
How Matthias’s perspective on sex shifted after coming out in a Christian fundamentalist home
Questions to ask ourselves to develop our own sexual ethic
How sexual shame can affect every area of our life
Ways to stay curious and let go of shame about sex
Matthias’s queer theological perspective on sex

The ways shame can seep into our lives is surprising. Join Jen and Matthias as they unpack, with a compassionate lens, how to stay curious and work toward kicking the shame-filled parts of our sex life to the curb.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

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Thistle Farms | Visit ThistleFarms.org and use promo code FortheLove to get 15% off your order

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Sexuality is also a really core part of who we are. How we experience or do not experience sexuality is identity construing, and it should be. It is part of who we are.” - Matthias Roberts

“We have our shame, we have our sexuality, and then we have our divine, or our beliefs around the divine, and what the divine commands of us or doesn't command of us around our sexuality. And when those things play together, we can get a pretty nasty mix really quickly.” - Matthias Roberts

“So many of us try to push shame aside. That's our default, "Push it aside. We're not going to pay attention to this. This hurts." Or we get shut down by it, but we never quite take the time, or a lot of people don't take the time to really listen and figure out what the shame is actually telling us. And I think that's a really, really important place to start, because if we don't know what we're working with, the particularities of the shame, then how do we actually work with it?” - Matthias Roberts

“I think there's something around queerness and the ways that queer sexual ethic or queer ways of thinking around sexuality can actually free everyone up.” - Matthias Roberts

“What would it mean for our bodies to be good as they are right now? Can we get curious about that? If we feel I have a bad body or that sense of inferiority, what does it mean that my body as it is, right now, in this moment, might actually be good and can bring me pleasure?” - Matthias Roberts

“Shame disconnects us. It disconnects us from our bodies, from our communities, from our partners. Sex connects us. It is ultimately a connecting force. So we can actually use our sexuality as a way to reconnect to our bodies, reconnect to our partners.” - Matthias Roberts

Guest’s LinksMatthias Roberts Website

Matthias’s Facebook

Matthias’s Instagram

Matthias’s Twitter

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Beyond Shame: Creating a Healthy Sex Life on Your Own Terms

For The Love Podcast Episode with Jay Stringer on Purity Culture

For The Love Podcast Episode with Brene Brown on Vulnerability

Sex, God, & the Conservative Church

Pure: Inside the Evangelical Movement That Shamed a Generation of Young Women and How I

Normal Gossip Podcast

Holy Runaways: Rediscovering Faith After Being Burned by Religion

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BONUS] Is It Possible We Might Mostly Agree on Gun Control? Diana Oestreich Weighs In Feb 03, 2023

So much is happening in real time in our world, obviously. And as a weekly podcast we can’t always speak immediately into the events that happen around us that need a bigger conversation. So we decided to take the time to look at those happenings, find some people who could walk us through the big events that have happened in the last 4 or 5 months and pop in with some conversations outside of our regular series for our premium subscribers. We’re talking about events that have us rethinking our stand on different issues, legislation being passed or overturned, and justice issues–all in an effort to understand what's at the core of each one and figure out how to react. This week, we’re looking at issues around gun control. Wherever your entry point into this discussion is, it’s something that’s been top of mind for many of us. You may find this shocking, since the divides on this are reported with great zeal via the media, but according to Gallup, a great majority of us believe in the right to own guns. And a whopping 92% of us favor background checks on Every. Single. Gun. Purchase. So, what’s the big hubbub about gun control if we’re nearly all in agreement? Because right now background checks aren’t required for every single gun purchase. Millions of guns have found their ways into the hands of those who are using them for criminal purposes, via sellers who don’t do background checks. Consider that fact alongside the stat that firearm deaths are the highest among teens and young adults between 18-34. How can this be, and how can we change it? That’s what we’re stepping through in this episode with Diana Oestreich, a veteran combat medic who served in Iraq. Diana’s an activist who is a self-proclaimed “peace wager” and she’s returning to our show to walk us through what’s going on and what we can do to change the situation to make the world a safer place for our kids. And spoiler alert: it doesn’t require everyone to have to hand over their guns.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Just this year, guns are the number one killer of kids in America. That demands action and I'm committed to it.” – Diana Oestreich

“I totally believe that it is A-okay to own a gun. I come from a family of hunters, I am the daughter, the mom, the sister of hunters. Is there a place in the American battery of rights to own an AR-15–a weapon of war? Do you need a weapon of war? No, you don't. Do you know that a grenade is a weapon of war? It is illegal. No American can own a grenade. And that’s a good thing.” - Diana Oestreich

“The antidote to despair is action.” – Diana Oestreich

“The most powerful thing is that our kids know that they are part of doing good in the world. That's something that will make them resilient to violence.” – Diana Oestreich

Diana’s Links

Website

How Am I Doing: 40 Conversations to Have with Yourself

The Waging Peace Project

Connect with Jen

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Who’s the Most Important Person In Your Life? Dr. Corey Yeager On Why That Matters Feb 01, 2023

This episode of our What If Series asks; what if we looked inward to discover what makes us tick, who are the voices shaping us, and why are we choosing them? We also consider the question; who’s the most important person in your life? The answers most people give are what you’d expect, but our guest this week proposes that we dig deeper to find a different answer that will ultimately change how we approach life.

Our guest, Dr. Corey Yeager, is a psychotherapist for the Detroit Pistons, a life coach, and an author. He appeared in the documentary, The Me You Can’t See, by Oprah and Prince Harry, and recently released a book that poses 40 questions we should be asking ourselves as we create a roadmap to discover our purpose and explore who we want to become.

In this episode Dr. Corey and Jen discuss:

Becoming a psychotherapist for NBA players
How self talk affects our outlook
Why asking intentional big questions can reframe our life
How the timing is now for a love affair with yourself

The most important conversation you can have is the one with yourself. Dr. Corey gives us the guidance and encouragement to do just that. Join Jen and Dr. Corey in an insightful discussion of self love, self talk, and staying curious.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Most people have never thought about being a genius, ever. They would tell you, ‘I'm not a genius. I'm not a genius.’ But if someone says, ‘No. Be still. Think through this. Yes, you do have a genius. What is it?’ If you had to sit with that and play with that and grind with that, it would produce ... And actually not just the answer. The answer is not the key. The process towards the answer. The things that you play with, that you work through, that you cried through, that you laugh about. That is what we want more of." - Dr. Corey Yeager

“I believe that at about nine, 10, 11, up into the 12, 13 year old range, we are handed a set of values. Our people around us, my grandparents, my mom, dad, my brother, they handed me a set of values. I didn't really get much say in it. They handed them to me and I agreed with it because I love my people. So then after I'm 12, 13, 14 years old, I move into the world holding those values, moving through the world with those values and never really re-engaging or checking in with myself to say, does that still work for me?.” - Dr. Corey Yeager

“Discomfort should be an indicator that I'm growing into something that is quite important. So I think this indicator is something that will give us a signal.” - Dr. Corey Yeager

“I submit that it is time for us to have a love affair with ourselves. I need to love me. And I'm glad my wife loves me and I'm glad my mama loves me and my kids love me. I'm glad, Jen, that they love me. But the most important love that I'm going to have is mine. If you don't know yourself, it's very hard to love yourself.” - Dr. Corey Yeager

“So instead of using jealousy and just letting it sit, how about if we looked at those jealous moments, understood it as desire, and allowed that to become a GPS that told us where we wanted to head.” - Dr. Corey Yeager

“We all hold the answers to everything we need. Everything that happens in my life today, I am fully equipped for. Anything that occurs, I'm fully equipped for, for this moment. And if we trust that, if we understand our lives as such, then we can move with confidence.” - Dr. Corey Yeager

Guest’s LinksDr. Corey Yeager Website

Dr. Corey's Facebook

Dr. Corey's Twitter

Dr. Corey’s Instagram

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

The Me You Can’t See

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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What If You Fail? Kendra Scott on What She’s Learned from Failure Jan 25, 2023

This episode of our What If Series asks what if you have big dreams and what if you didn’t let failure stop you from trying?

Our guest is entrepreneur Kendra Scott, an intrepid businesswoman who built a billion dollar business while carrying her baby boy to sales meetings. She started with $500 and eventually created her dream, a 97% women run business that gives back to the community in meaningful ways. She breaks down the “why” and the “how” of building a jewelry empire and that asking for help from her people was key to her success.

In this episode Kendra and Jen discuss:

Failing at her first business with a kid and no college degree
Where her “Why” came from
Intentionally building a woman and mom-centric business
The importance of asking for help

The What If’s of our past can bury us under, so we never dream of our next things. But some of our next steps can be found in the rubble of our failures. Join Jen and Kendra in an honest discussion of entrepreneurship, motherhood, and community.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Because the ones that don't even try never know. And even if it doesn't work out, even if you fail. And I failed, I failed in my first business, that failure was the greatest education I ever got into business. It was my bridge to help me build the successful business I have today. And I wouldn't be sitting here talking to you, Jen if I didn't have that failed business. So I think for anyone out there scared, I always say, and I wrote this in Born to Shine, in my book, is put yourself in the worst case scenario, really think about it. And then you go, okay, you lived in that moment, and it wasn't so bad. Now I know what that's like. So now I'm going to just try to go for it." - Kendra Scott

“Sometimes, we get ourselves buried in what ifs of our past and they hold us down from moving forward to our what ifs of the future, the dreaming what ifs.” - Kendra Scott

“It is so hard in the moment to sometimes see the forest through the trees kind of thing, to see your way through. And it sometimes takes getting to that other place to then realize and you can see the path exactly back to where you began and why you had to go there.” - Kendra Scott

“And I think if we can start taking those nos or the naysayers or the dream stealers and start to actually, when they say those things, get excited, make it more like, ‘Ooh, tell me I can't do it. Tell me, please.’ Ooh, I like it when someone tells me I can't do something because then I'm like, ‘Woo, let's go.’” - Kendra Scott

“Stay open because we don't know what's going to come next.” - Kendra Scott

I think for me, I'm still that dorky girl from Wisconsin. And I think sometimes I hope that the book too just knows that as these things happen, some people, it can affect them. And for me, I'm still me.” - Kendra Scott

“Anything is possible. I promise you. I know in some moments it doesn't feel like they are, but if you can get your mind to know that you got this burning amazing light in your story, is what makes you great. So don't be ashamed to share who you really are.” - Kendra Scott

Guest’s LinksKendra Scott Website

Kendra Scott's Facebook

Kendra Scott's business Instagram

Kendra Scott’s personal Instagram

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Born to Shine: Do Good, Find Your Joy, and Build a Life You Love

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

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What if We Lived in a World Built by Women: Builder & Designer Extraordinaire Emily Pilloton-Lam Jan 18, 2023

In this episode of the What If Series, we are asking some big questions around using your experience and skills to start something completely new or get imaginative on how you can positively affect your community with what you already have. What do you bring to the table with the whole totality of your experience that could be a force of good for your community or for the people around you?

Our guest is leader and teacher Emily Pillton-Lam, an inspiring thinker and author of several books and creator of the nonprofit – Girls Garage. She’s taught thousands of gender expansive youth how to use power tools and to dream of a world built more equitably and sustainably, and she’s dreamt about what it would look like if girls/women were empowered to facilitate the surroundings in our world differently–with an eye toward thinking more communally and factoring in the lived experience of the people around them.

In this episode Emily and Jen discuss:

The shocking statistics around gender imbalance in Architecture, Engineering and Construction Worlds
Why power tools can make you feel superhuman
How it takes messy courage to change course and start something new
Dreaming of a world built by women

Emily gives us insight into the big “what if” question we might all ask ourselves: what if we could affect our world with the skills and experience we have right now?

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I think what I discovered through the act of building was both the physical power of it, like I could build something that was tangible and I could point to it and say I built that and we built that as a group of people, working together. Also, this was one of the first times where I looked around and there were other teenagers who were diverse, who were from all over the country, who had all kinds of various family stories, school experiences and yet, we were all on this construction site, building this thing together and it just felt ... like a light went off. This is the thing that makes me feel powerful and purposeful and that I don't have to check who I am at the door, that I could be my full self. So that's the gift that I think construction gave to me at a young age, and it's a gift that I have committed my adult life to paying forward and paying back and giving back to other young people." - Emily Pilloton-Lam

“For women, a lot of our lives are influenced by, or sometimes dictated by how we view our bodies in the world.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam

“So this is how I think about power tools. Of course, they're fun, they're exciting to learn, but they're like a real metaphor for what women can do and what women can contribute in the world in a physical way.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam

“One of the first things that you see when you walk [into Girls Garage], in our reception area, on the left-hand wall, there's a tiled wall, there's all these wood tiles and every tile has the name of a student who's been here and there's like a thousand of them. So you walk in and your name is literally on the wall, alongside hundreds of other girls, so you don't ever have to doubt that you belong here.” - Emily Pilloton-Lam

Guest’s Links:

Website: https://www.emilypilloton.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WeAreGirlsGarage/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_girlsgarage/

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

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Regret: Our Most Misunderstood Emotion and a Gift to Move Us Forward with Daniel H. Pink Jan 11, 2023

We’re knee deep in our What If Series and we’re bringing a twist to the conversation. This powerful interview is a note-taking worthy one; a powerful conversation on one of the most misunderstood emotions we have as humans: regrets. How can we harness our regrets toward forward momentum instead of drowning in them?

Our guest is writer and researcher Daniel H. Pink, a fascinating thinker and author of several books–five of them New York Times bestselling works. His latest book is The Power of Regret: How Looking Backward Moves Us Forward.

In this episode Daniel and Jen discuss:

Basic neurology behind regret
How age can affect regret
The four main types of regret we all feel
How to vaporize the negative effects of regret through practical to dos

Daniel teaches us to confront our regrets, listen to our regrets, use them as data, as feedback, and draw lessons from them. He shows us the evidence from social psychology, that if we deal with our regrets properly, we can become better problem solvers, strategists and ultimately find more meaning in life.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“One can listen to the stories of other people, and if they have a little bit of mileage on them as I do, they can stop and say, "What are the lessons anybody can learn from this?" - Daniel H. Pink

“What do you do when nobody's watching? What do you do? Because it's who you are. And it took me a while, Jen. It took me a while to realize like, ‘Hey, wait a second. I think I'm a writer.’” - Daniel H. Pink

“Everybody has regrets. So if you feel regret, it doesn't mean that you're flawed. It doesn't mean that you're doing it wrong. It means that you are a human being. In fact, what we know from a whole pile of research here, so there's 50 or 60 years of research in social psychology, in cognitive science, in neuroscience, in developmental psychology, what it tells us is that regret is one of the most common emotions that human beings have. It's arguably the most common negative emotion that human beings have. It is ubiquitous in the human experience. We have piles of evidence showing that regret is omnipresent in our lives. It is everywhere. In fact, it's so prevalent, Jen, that if you lack regrets, that's probably a sign of a problem.” - Daniel H. Pink

“Regret is a very complicated, sophisticated kind of emotion. It involves traveling in time in your head, negating things that really happen, coming to the present. It's very difficult.” - Daniel H. Pink

“We have a half century of evidence showing that if we process our regrets in a systematic, intelligent way, don't ignore them, don't get wigged out by them, but listen to them, they can make us better.” - Daniel H. Pink

“I've made so many decisions in the last week, most of which I don't remember, but there were decisions and indecisions and actions that happened three decades ago that not only I remember, but that bother me. That's a very strong signal.” - Daniel H. Pink

“Regret clarifies what I value and instructs me on how to do better.” - Daniel H. Pink

“Foundation regrets, if only I'd done the work. Boldness regrets, if only I'd taken the chance. Moral regrets, if only I'd done the right thing. And connection regrets, if only I'd reached out. And around the world, those seem to be the foremost prevalent types of regret.” - Daniel H. Pink

“We fear that when we are vulnerable, people will think less of us when in fact they think more of us.” - Daniel H. Pink

Guest’s Links

https://www.danpink.com/

https://www.facebook.com/danielhpink

https://twitter.com/danielpink

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Maggie O’Farrell: “Hamnet” Jan 06, 2023

As tons of us in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club can agree, a good book is a bit of a refuge at any time of the year, but especially in the swirl of the holidays. It's just stealing away minutes for our mind to not be thinking about planning and gifting and gatherings and shopping and cooking–not to mention expectations and the pressure to reinvent ourselves in the New Year. But getting to bury our nose in a book or even playing an audiobook has a way of transporting us to a different place entirely and giving us a break. This month we had the wonderful book Hamnet for that fleeting mental retreat we all need around this time of year. We’re getting to talk to Maggie O’Farrell, the amazing author of this atmospheric and emotional book. Maggie is an incredible novelist. She's the winner of the Women's Prize for Fiction in 2020 and her memoir, I Am, I Am which was a New York Times number one bestseller. Not only is she highly awarded with her adult fiction titles, she is also a beloved children's book writer. Even this interview was a bit of transport to another place as Maggie spoke to us in person from Edinburgh in Scotland. She and Jen discuss the book, their shared love of reading, started at an early age, and how amazing it is to find new stories to be told from the classic works of Shakespeare. If you’re not already a member of the book club, there’s so much more to discover in the conversations around amazing books we’re reading together. Jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“For me the purpose was to put Hamnet center stage and to say to my readers, this boy was important. His life was short, it was hugely significant. And without this child we would not have Hamlet and we probably wouldn't have Twelfth Night.” - Maggie O’ Farrell

“The biggest drama of Shakespeare's real life happened off stage, and that's back in Stratford-upon-Avon–the death of his son. So I wanted to focus on that life rather than the one in London that we've seen many times and in many other novels, films and TV series.” - Maggie O’ Farrell

“I think we all have our own version of Shakespeare in our heads, don't we? And they're all different, and I think that's fine.I think that's partly why he's of such enduring fascination because he's still open to so many new interpretations.” - Maggie O’ Farrell

Guest’s Links

Maggie’s Website

Maggie’s Facebook

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Hamnet Book

I Am, I Am Book

The Boy Who Lost His Spark Children’s Book

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Jenna Kutcher on Taking Your Dreams Off the Shelf and Embracing the “What Ifs” Jan 04, 2023

It’s our first episode of the new year and we’re kicking it off with a brand new series as well. Jen’s always been fascinated by people who take risks, reinvent themselves, or chase a dream that might seem lofty or impossible. What’s the secret sauce to putting our dreams into action, and “what if” we actually get to that thing we always wanted to do in life?

To start our series off in a powerful way, we’ve got a guest who has lived out her “what If” moment in the face of fear, trepidation and potentially walking away from a more “sure” thing. Podcast, author, and digital marketer Jenna Kutcher excelled at her first corporate job, where after just a few years, she was looking at a big promotion and more money. Jenna couldn’t shake the feeling that this move for more money and responsibility would be a tough trade off for long hours and time away from the things and people she cared about. Jenna shares the surprising decision she made, what it cost her and how it planned out—while posing questions that maybe we’ve all considered at one time or another: What happens when money doesn’t necessarily bring you the quality of life you’re longing for? What happens when the dreams you have just won’t take a backseat to the practical plan you had for your life? Jen and Jenna give their takes on what it’s like to realize the career or life situation you’ve chosen (or maybe that chose you) isn’t quite the fit you you thought it would be, and they give us permission to chase the thing that brings out the best of who we really are.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“We are so quick to abandon what got us somewhere. Instead, we could leverage that thing to get us to the next place.” - Jenna Kutcher

“If you do not have safety and security, creativity is really hard to muster up. Because a lot of people just abandon things and then they're like, "Oh my gosh, I have to take any money that will come in," and they find themselves doing things they don't love.” - Jenna Kutcher

“I think that with hustle culture, it's beautiful because, yeah, you got to hustle to get things off the ground, but where is your enough point? Where do you start to say, ‘And now I can rest, or, well done, or now I protect my time?’”- Jenna Kutcher

“I realized this trend in my life where when I finally give myself bandwidth and time and space to breathe and think, that is when the best things happen.” - Jenna Kutcher

“I think for so many of us, it's like the dial on the stereo is up on the world's noise and your mother-in-law's opinion and your neighbor's car and all these things. It's like we've got to turn our intuition back up and we've got to trust that voice again.” - Jenna Kutcher

“Trust the unfolding of your life and trust yourself through the process of the unfolding. Because I think that a lot of times when we're in those seasons, you feel like it's never going to end.” - Jenna Kutcher

"Time is our currency. When we treat it that way and when we recognize that this is the one thing we can't go out and earn more of, we can't get back. The way that we spend our days is how we spend our life. Make sure that your day is reflecting where you want your life to go." - Jenna Kutcher

Guest’s LinksJenna Kutcher Website

Jenna Kutcher Instagram

Jenna Kutcher Facebook

Jenna Kutcher Twitter

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Me Course

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Going Solo, Finding Yourself, and Keeping Hope Alive: Jen’s Thoughts on 2022 Dec 28, 2022

It’s our anticipated annual solo episode where we get to spend time with Jen reflecting on the year and the changes that have occurred in her life and our collective lives. And whew, have Things™ happened! We are still in the cyclone of massive change that launched out of 2020. Jen recently entered an empty nest phase this year and began a new relationship (an LDR relationship to boot) for the first time in years. She opens up about her relationship with Tyler in a completely new way and offers some hope for those navigating the waters of being single or testing out tough relationships. Whatever comes in the new year, Jen is committed to trying new things and believing that things do get better. It might be messy and wildly nonlinear but there is hope and there is progress and there is a future worth fighting for. I mean, Jen is still shocked she wrote a bestselling cookbook at age 47. If you had asked her in her twenties if that was her future, she would have laughed in your face. Whether you want to overhaul your own life or dip your toe into a new venture, Jen’s with you and cheering you on. We end this episode with Jen sharing what’s on her mind for the new year and what’s to come on the podcast and beyond. We hope you go into your new year feeling like you have a community that gets you, supports you, and that you have permission to try new things. Happy new year, pod community!

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

"That's the nice thing about [starting a relationship] when you're older--you're mature, you've lived a lot of life and you're hopefully more generous, more wise and more grounded." - Jen Hatmaker

“I've grown a lot, a lot, a lot through understanding things through Tyler's lens, and staying curious toward him, and fighting all my instincts, which are trauma related, to be scared, and reactive, and triggered.” - Jen Hatmaker

“It is 100% okay, more than okay, to choose not to get married or even to partner up. That choice is viable. That is a real choice. It has merit for a trillion reasons.” - Jen Hatmaker

“The faith of my childhood did not teach me that God had any interest in our pleasure…in fact the opposite was more true. The harder something was probably the godlier it was. Or the more I denied myself something that felt beautiful or wonderful, that probably meant I was being obedient…God made this world to just be so enjoyed and to heal us and to nurture us. And that feels so crystal clear, true to me now that I'm shocked that it wasn't always.” - Jen Hatmaker

“Having a chance to be alone, whether you chose it or didn't, it doesn't matter, is a chance to look really deeply inside. Who am I? What do I want? What makes me happy? What makes me tick? Where are my own personal pain points? Let's not imagine we got this far in our life perfectly and everybody around us was just problematic.” - Jen Hatmaker

"If you find yourself solo right now, take this time. Go deeply inside. Know who you are, be your own best friend, emerge as your best self--whether or not that best self ever partners up or marries, it doesn't matter because that's how you want to be in the world.” - Jen Hatmaker

"I've been parenting since I was 23. I've done all that heavy lifting and I loved it. I wouldn't change one day of it--but it also feels great to be mostly done. Look at my young adult kids--I think they're fantastic. I'm getting to watch them start to fly." - Jen Hatmaker

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Me Course

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Finding Our Rhythms In Changing Seasons: Barbara Brown Taylor Prays Us Into 2023 Dec 21, 2022

It’s the benediction episode in our “Ending the Year with a Bang” series and what a well of wisdom we have for you. The Dalia Lama of the Christian faith who resides in and walks the trails of beautiful rural Georgia–a For the Love favorite—Barbara Brown Taylor, shares her priceless insights with us. She and Jen talk blueberry pies, retired racehorses who get a second chance at life in her backyard, and making room for friendships when the world wants us, above all else, to be productive. She shares a “Farewell to 2022” prayer that she composed specifically for this podcast community (which might have elicited a tear or two) and how considering new rhythms in our day to day might bring us new life in 2023. Barbara wants to remind us that God created this world to be enjoyed and to heal and nurture us. As we contemplate how we are looking to live in this coming year, BBT has this to say to us all: “be patient with the changing seasons and not insisting that spring be like fall or that winter be like summer; trust the change in them. There's a rhythm that is settling into a pattern and then there's a point at which the rhythm means breaking the pattern to insert a slower rhythm, a more attentive rhythm. It is a great walk of trust.”

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“It's been an odd liminal transition space between two heavy pandemic years and then seeing what comes next with really no assurance about what comes next. Which I think for people of faith, it is a great walk, a great kind of trust walk. So my 2022 has been a lot about deciding how much normal I want to go back to and what kind of a tempo I want to live because at this point everything's picking up again and I have found myself rushing and busy and distracted and I remember that too well and there are not enough years left to live like that. So 2022 has been for me a hinge year. It's been a year for coming to terms with age, both the fear of what that means and the invitation that it brings perhaps especially for a woman, I'm not sure about that. But the fear is about the stereotypes.” - Barbara Brown Taylor

“I prayed much differently in my twenties than I did in my thirties or forties or now. So to be patient with the changing seasons and not insisting that spring be like fall or that winter, be like summer, but to be patient with the rhythms and to trust. To trust the change in them.” - Barbara Brown Taylor

“Part of realizing God is with us is giving up illusions. That means that God is very chatty and always available. I mean I'm an introvert so I recognize one when I see one. And sometimes God with us means God's silent and withdrawn and that does not mean God's gone.” - Barbara Brown Taylor

“My understanding of my Christian faith is it's the religion of the neighbor and it's the religion whose prime teacher said, "If you've got to choose between your religion and your neighbor, choose your neighbor…Because I never told you to love your religion.” - Barbara Brown Taylor

Guest’s Links:

Barbara Brown Taylor Website

Barbara Brown Taylor Facebook

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

Rhythm of Prayer Book

Connect with Jen!

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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You Are Not Crazy: Making Sense of Our Behaviors with Britt Frank Dec 14, 2022

***Content Warning: This episode mentions suicide***Description

It’s the second episode in our “Ending the Year with a Bang” series and we are leaning in hard as to how to stop spinning out and find a way forward or sideways or any direction really–we just don’t want to be stuck. We are getting into the nooks and crannies of how our brains work and how “micro-yeses” are powerful medicine for our psyches. If you are or ever have been in a place of feeling stuck or maybe even plastered to the floor from feeling overwhelmed, then step right in. Our guest, Britt Frank, is a trauma specialist with her own incredible story of restoration from several addictions and she has fantastic insight for navigating feeling stuck in unhealthy cycles. We can all find hope in the understanding that despite how it might appear sometimes, we are not crazy and our behaviors have reasons that are mapped all over our brains. The good news is we can shift our behaviors in some really simple and attainable ways that Britt shares with us in her no-holds barred style. In the spirit of finishing this year well, let’s all make a pact to stop labeling ourselves as crazy and start believing that our “stuff” makes sense and doesn’t have to hold us hostage.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“My behaviors weren't good, but there's no such thing as a crazy person. If you look at everyone up close, everything always makes sense in context. Even if you don't know what that means, even if you don't know what that is, and when you stop shaming yourself and you start committing to, hey, I'm not subscribing to my behaviors, I'm not saying these should stay, but I'm not going to shame myself. I'm going to go, wow, this is an interesting adaptation to an injury. And, okay, I'm not crazy. I make sense. My stuff makes sense. My burnout makes sense. My depression makes sense for me. My meth addiction made sense. And what a beautiful message to know that we're not crazy, no one is.” - Britt Frank

“If you're still breathing, there's another step to be taken, so take it. I don't know where I'm going, I don't know what I'm doing, just go. Because the second you move in any direction, even if it's the wrong direction, you're no longer inert, you're no longer stuck.” - Britt Frank

“I didn't have a pivotal moment. It was a long series of unfortunate events with some moments that kept me inspired to not die. And I kept going.” - Britt Frank

“In order to be a happy person, you need to be a whole person. But in order to be whole, we have to deal with the less than shiny things about ourselves.” - Britt Frank

“That's a mile 26 problem, trying to love and forgive yourself. But we try to do it at mile one and then go, ‘what's wrong with me that I can't forgive myself?’ That's not the stage of the process we're at. Let's start by getting rid of the lie stories and that'll make it a lot easier to get to self-love and compassion and forgiveness later.” - Britt Frank

Guest’s LinksBritt Frank Website

Britt Frank Instagram

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

The Science of Stuck Book

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

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Jen Hatmaker’s “Feed These People” Dec 09, 2022

Ask and you shall receive, folks. For years, Jen’s followers have begged for a cookbook and quite literally willed it into existence, and now it’s here in all its glory! For our November book club episode, Jen is joined by OG book club member Denise Gruzensky, who’s been cooking her way through Feed These People and is ready to grill Jen (no pun intended) on her early influences, including; cooking with kids interrupting you every two seconds, what to do when your loved ones can’t eat meat, and how to make your food work for you and your people. Happy Holidays and happy cooking! If you’re not already a member of the book club, there’s so much more to discover in the conversations around amazing books we’re reading together. Head to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up!

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide | Listen to this special podcast episode for exclusive discounts on gifts that give back this holiday season!

Thistle Farms | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website excluding sale items

Join the Jen Hatmaker Book Club today! jenhatmakerbookclub.com

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I knew that I loved making delicious food and creating something great in the kitchen, but I noticed I really liked writing about it and to layer over two things that I loved. Because really I'm a writer first.” - Jen Hatmaker

“I used all these years of just writing helter skelter on social media as a template. It isn't one by the way, that is not industry standard. But that's the way that I had figured out food writing, which was just outside of the typical structure.” - Jen Hatmaker

“We're all laughing as we're cooking because intermittently there's comedy even in the recipe itself.” - Denise Gruzensky

“I think when it comes to cooking, the sum is greater than its parts. Yes, it's just an onion and it's garlic and it's a sub sandwich, but something about it, like the process of it, the possibility of it, the nourishment of it and then the appreciation of it, it's like, Well, maybe I'll learn to paint, maybe I'll write a book. So, I hope that it inspires a little bit of creativity in everybody.” - Jen Hatmaker

“I just had so much to learn and I was willing to learn anything and try anything. I feel like the Food Network, I joke about that all the time, that's really where I learned how to cook. I just watched those shows and I watched how they chopped things and I learned technique and I figured out they would teach me about flavors that went together and how to fix something that tasted flat. Just all these things that cooks know, but I did not.” - Jen Hatmaker

“I'm on the other side of this just complete seed change in my life. I've learned a lot. I have something new to say. I have something new that I've experienced and learned and I'm not quite ready to write it, but I can see its edges starting to take a little shape.” - Jen Hatmaker

Guest’s LinksDenise’s website

Denise’s Instagram

Denise’s Facebook

Denise’s Twitter

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeMike Burbiglia

Food and Wine Magazine

Feed These People

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Getting Honest with Ourselves About Money: The Financial Diet’s Chelsea Fagan Dec 07, 2022

It’s the first episode in our “Ending the Year with a Bang” series, and we’re bolting headlong into everyone’s favorite topic (especially after week upon week of holiday spending)--finances! Maybe your finances don’t have you ending 2022 with a bang—it has been challenging and hard on the financial front for a lot of us–everything from post pandemic shifts to rising inflation to rising interest rates; things might seem a little gloomy on the financial horizon. But as Jen herself has learned over the last couple of years, you can turn the tide and start calling the shots on your finances, instead of staying in the dark and wondering where you stand. This applies to everyone no matter what money madness plagues you—even if you’re having to start over, or you don’t have much to work with, or you’re wildly uninformed about how to wrangle numbers. Just like a new year, we can all start at the very beginning. This week’s guest brings the realistic–and hopeful—truth about how to turn our finances around, or even just how we can manage things a little differently for maximum benefit. Chelsea Fagan is the co-founder and CEO of The Financial Diet. Having descended into her own financial pit during her first years living in New York, Chelsea decided to make a change and as she began to see some of the simple things she instigated move her toward a healthier financial picture, she wanted to empower others with the reality that basic changes in how we look at money can create great impact toward our financial futures. Chelsea helps people daily with budgeting, credit scores, investing, and does it all with a hopeful outlook that will bring even the least financially minded of us a sigh of relief. Get ready as Chelsea doles out some hard truths, some practical advice and even turns our weekly “what’s saving your life” question back on Jen—this is a conversation that ends up being, well, on the money!

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Being good with money has basically nothing to do with your income level or your lifestyle. The ethos of being good with money very, very simply boils down to both living with and being content with living under your means, and then framing your financial decision making in terms of your long-term priorities and values as opposed to short-term gratification.” - Chelsea Fagan

“I'm thinking about a variety of ways people gather around this time of year, be it actual Christmas or a gift giving moment, family or friends–work even–and those spaces are not paying close attention to making gatherings financially inclusive. If anyone coming to your event feels uncomfortable financially, you have failed as a host.” - Chelsea Fagan

“In keeping a positive mindset [with money issues], something my husband says that I really love is, "Worrying is praying for something bad to happen." You either do something about it to be proactive and prevent negative outcomes or increase the chances of positive outcomes. Or, if you've done everything you need to do and it's out of your control now, then focus on other things.” - Chelsea Fagan

Guest’s Links

The Financial Diet Website

The Financial Diet Instagram

The Financial Diet Facebook

The Financial Diet Twitter

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Nerd Wallet

Glassdoor

Broke Millennial

Can’t afford a CPA? See if you qualify for help with your taxes via a free service from

United Way

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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An Untraditional Christmas Podcast with American Idol Alumni Melinda Doolittle Nov 30, 2022

For the final episode of our Untraditional Traditions series, Jen’s good friend, American Idol alumni Melinda Doolittle, is with us to have an enlightening chat with Jen, which, as Jen readily admits, is 90% not about Christmas at all—and since we’re being untraditional this year, we’re here for it! Jen gets Melinda to spill all the behind the scenes scoop on what it was like to come through the American Idol machine, including how it felt to be the oldest contestant for her season (at the ripe old age of 28, mind you). They also set the record straight about what happened when Melinda “ignored” Tyler Merritt for a year (let’s just say it involved not knowing how social media works). Finally, since it is our holiday series, Melinda tells us about her favorite Christmas ever, which involves her yearly Christmas show in Nashville, TN, and the very special guest that happened to be in the audience that night.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Kiwico | Get your first month FREE on ANY crate line at kiwico.com/forthelove.

Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide | Listen to this special podcast episode for exclusive discounts on gifts that give back this holiday season!

Thistle Farms | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website excluding sale items

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I was on the same season [of American Idol] as Jordan Sparks and she was the youngest in my season, I was the oldest. We were roommates, so we were extremely close. And she knew who she was. She knew what kind of artist she wanted to be. She had auditioned for lots of competitions. She just knew who she was. And I was like, ‘Can you teach me, 16 year old? Because I don't know.’” - Melinda Doolittle

“I don't think anyone's prepped to ascend that quickly or to have that level of critique. Literally the whole country was saying what they thought of you.” - Melinda Doolittle on life during American Idol

“I truly feel like dreams came true that I didn't actually know I had. I think I hadn't allowed myself to dream about what it would look like for me to be an artist and to step on stages and have my own story to tell.” - Melinda Doolittle

“All I wanted out of life was to be the Black Barbara Streisand. I discovered that I could write some songs. I was okay with that, but I wanted to sing those classic songs that made everybody move, made people cry, made people feel something.” - Melinda Doolittle

“[At my Christmas show] we do a version of 'All I Want for Christmas,' that is my happiest place. And I swore I would never do that song because that song is the gold standard for me. It is Mariah Carey and I will never be her. So to make that song fit me, but to still be true to it, that was one of the most exciting arrangements I've ever come up with. Ever.” - Melinda Doolittle

Guest’s Links

Melinda’s website

Melinda’s Instagram

Melinda’s Facebook

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

People Loving Nashville Melinda’s Christmas Show in Franklin, Tennessee

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Retooling Our Holiday Gatherings for More Meaning and Less Stress: Priya Parker Nov 23, 2022

We’re back with another installment of our Untraditional Traditions series and continuing to celebrate the best of the season with different perspectives on how to change things up toward augmenting old traditions, creating new ones, or letting go of those that no longer serve us. Perhaps you’re thinking–how do I even begin to shift long held traditions—especially around holiday gatherings? Or maybe you’ve never been the “gather-er,” but you want to step your toe into those waters? We’ve got some fantastic practical guidance based on real life experience from our guest this week, on how we can get more from how we gather, and how to facilitate gatherings that bring life instead of stress. Priya Parker is a facilitator, a strategic advisor, an author and a life-long curious student. Priya believes everyone has the ability to gather well and gives us tangible tools to help us reimagine how we spend our time together and infuse it with creativity and meaning. Her best-selling book The Art of Gathering Well, is such a vital work when it comes to rethinking how we plan all our get togethers. Priya got her start in this field at a really young age as a kid when she straddled the two very different worlds of her parents, where she’d leave her mother and stepfather's Indian, liberal, vegetarian, Buddhist, household and travel to her father and stepmothers’, white American, evangelical Christian, conservative, meat eating household. Priya believes that a gathering starts when you pause first to ask “why do I want to do this, what are the needs and who should be there?” She and Jen talk through some of the possible answers to these questions and how they help us make important shifts in approaching our holiday gatherings. Recognizing that rituals are powerful, they also look at when they are needed–and when they’ve outlived their usefulness or specialness, or even when the observation of them brings sadness or pain. As we all search for belonging and true connection in our holiday gatherings, Priya and Jen walk us through how we can lay the foundation for our own blended and newly-created traditions.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I think that the cultivation of meaningful dialogue, of meaningful conversation is a cultural practice, and I think that there are elements that help build that muscle, and that there's elements that block the going to that cultural gym.” - Priya Parker

“We're doing a lot of missing of each other. We're missing each other spatially because of the pandemic. We're missing each other politically. We're missing each other during racial reckonings. And I think the art and craft of beginning to find each other again is to think about when and how do we actually meet, and how do we set it up in a way that people feel safe enough to engage.” - a letter received from a reader of Priya Parker’s book “The Art of Gathering.”

“What is a need in my life, or what is a need in this community that by bringing together a specific group of people we might be able to address?” - Priya Parker

“Our rituals are like the observable symbols of our forms, and when the forms are shifting, the rituals also need to shift for them to be relevant and meaningful to the people who choose to be in those systems.” - Priya Parker

Guest’s Links

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

The Art of Gathering - book by Priya Parker

The Way We Never Were - book by Stephanie Coontz

Americanah - book Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie

Connect with Jen!

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BONUS] Jen's Favorite Things - 6th Annual Holiday Gift Guide Nov 21, 2022

Another year, another holiday, and another special bonus episode of our podcast featuring our 6th Annual Jen's Favorite Things Gift Guide. If you're just now realizing that we've got about a month before Christmas, Jen and team are here to help! In this episode, Jen will guide us to some of the most practical, fun and beautiful gifts this year—along with all kinds of deals, just for you, our faithful listeners. And as we've done in past years, Jen has selected products she loves from businesses who are doing good in the world—whether that's through dollars back to worthy causes, employing and empowering marginalized communities, or creating sustainable solutions that are both good for us and our planet. And here's a fun bonus (on top of a bonus episode!). We love a good story here on our show, so to celebrate 6 years of this guide, we've invited some of the folks who've benefited from the "giving back" component of our gift companies this year to share how their lives were impacted by the help and support they've received through the conscientious work of these companies AND because generous buyers like you decided they wanted to spend their holiday dollars meaningfully.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I was at the end of the road. I was completely desperate. I was sitting in prison and a lady from Thistle Farms, one of the original graduates, came in and spoke to a group of women in the prison. And so I got out, I went straight to Thistle Farms. I felt the love and the support. They bought me hygiene. They bought me clothes right when I came in. They basically just put their arms around me and let me just rest and breathe.” - Rachel, 2017 graduate of the Thistle Farms Residential Community

“One of the things that we really found is that good food, good drink, and sitting around the table is actually the largest place to find healing. Because we started hearing the stories and sharing our experiences and we would linger around a table for hours and hours, starting from breakfast all the way through dinner. That was where everything happened.” - Paulette Wooten, co-founder of The Treehouse + Co.

“I love being here. I love being part of something that is bigger than me and doing more for the greater good, and sharing my story and being around the women that have been through similar situations and gone through struggle.” - Katie, ABLE jeweler

“Because of your direct support and buying our gift products and sending them to your girlfriends, and your moms, and your teacher or friends, we have been able to grow. We have been able to give back to our women. We have been able to keep our team employed through a really challenging few years in the retail and shopping space.” - Micah Shreeve, founder of Aspen Lane

Gift Guide Holiday Deals

Thistle Farms | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website excluding sale items

Wagon Coffee | Use code ForTheLove to save 10% off the entire online shop, including the Caffeinate These People coffee pack and For the Love coffee blend

The Treehouse & Co | Use code ForTheLove to save 15% off the entire website, including the Jen Hatmaker holiday spice box

ABLE | Use code ForTheLove to save 40% on purchases made in November, and 25% on purchases made in December

Aspen Lane | Shop Jen’s favorites and get 25% off using code ForTheLove

Hon’s Honey | Save 15% on the entire online store with code ForTheLove

Connect with Jen!

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Maybe It’s Time for A Calm Christmas This Year? Beth Kempton Shows Us How Nov 16, 2022

We’re in the midpoint of our Untraditional Traditions series, and we want to ask all of you listeners to consider something; what kind of Christmas do you want or need this year? Maybe it’s a riotous, celebratory Christmas with tons of gatherings and activities, a frenzy of lights and shopping and cooking and more. But perhaps some of us might be feeling a bit tethered to the way we’ve always done it—and the notion of a calm Christmas sounds nothing short of divine (and kudos to you all who have found the joy of this already). Perhaps you feel like you don’t really have a choice as to what kind of Christmas you have, as you’ve been the “keeper of Christmas” for your family and friends for so long, but our guest this week is here to tell us otherwise. Beth Kempton is a writer, a mother and has been obsessed with Christmas since she was a little girl. After one particularly stressful Christmas when her children were small (and she and her husband decided that neither of them really liked turkey) Beth began to realize that Christmas could be what she wanted it to be (sans turkey, for one!), and she started spreading that message—namely through her book “Calm Christmas and a Happy New Year.” She and Jen talk through the 5 “stories” of Christmas and which one they identify with most, they discuss when Christmas is hard and how to help yourself and others when that’s the case, and the comfort and joy of letting yourself be free of anyone else’s Christmas expectations and choosing the kind of season that is nurturing instead of draining.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

StoryWorth | Give the gift of preserved memories at storyworth.com/forthelove to save $10 on your first purchase!

For the Love’s 2022 Gift Guide | Save on gifts that give back this holiday season!

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I think the reason it's so important to think carefully about Christmas is because it's not just Christmas Day, it's the whole of winter. It's the season that sets us up for the year that follows. The impact on our mental health can be enormous.” - Beth Kempton

“Isn't it interesting that you turn to the symbols of Christmas–the tree, the lights, whatever–as comfort in a really difficult time? And I know it's up to everyone when they put the tree up, but I'm totally the same. If that brings you joy, why not extend it as much as you can?” - Beth Kempton

“When we find the quiet, it's so much easier to connect with the wisdom that we already hold and often don't even realize. I think somehow our heart is way ahead of our mind in terms of what we know, what we need to know.” - Beth Kempton

“One of the things that I was really shocked by was how many people that I spoke to–I would say more than 80%--had a very sad story connected with Christmas in some way.” - Beth Kempton

Guest’s Links

Beth’s Website

Beth’s Instagram

Beth’s Facebook

Beth Kempton’s podcast

The Way of the Fearless Writer: Ancient Eastern wisdom for a flourishing writing life

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Book: Calm Christmas and a Happy New Year by Beth Kempton

Book: The Way of the Fearless Writer by Beth Kempton

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Creating and Recreating Holiday Traditions with Brian Earl from “The Christmas Past Podcast” Nov 09, 2022

Let’s get into the nitty gritty of our holiday traditions—real tree or a fake tree? Love egg nog or hate it? Decorating to the hilt or like to keep it minimalist? In this kickoff episode of our Untraditional Traditions series, we’re doing a deep dive into some of the traditions many of us may observe at the holidays, and a few we might want to try! Like, how many of you put up your Christmas tree at Halloween and take it down on Valentine’s Day? Well, our guest this week does and he just gave us all permission to do that same (you’re welcome). Because that’s the fun thing about traditions—we can take the ones that mean the most to us and build off them to create something that really reflects who we are. And if our old traditions leave us feeling flat, there are always new things to explore. Brian Earl, the host of the “Christmas Past” podcast is the perfect guide as we begin this series. Brian dedicates hours of research to uncovering the roots behind many of our beloved (and maybe to some, annoying) holiday traditions. Ever wonder why we put up a Christmas tree in the first place? He lays it out for us, along with many other interesting facts around traditions. Also, he and Jen reminisce about being kids in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s and the nostalgia around gifts we received and the Christmas commercials that used to barrage us on TV. (Rubik’s Cube, anyone? How about Teddy Ruxpin)? As they wind through the nostalgia of traditions past, Jen and Brian also talk about creating new traditions, and how valuable those are and will become to us and our people. Brian’s years of research have resulted in a book about all the fascinating, sometimes really surprising stories behind our holiday traditions, why we should care about them, and what they mean. Get into the spirit of the holidays as we wax nostalgic and dream of new ways to celebrate the season.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

BetterHelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month

Chime | Sign up for your Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today Chime.com/ForTheLove

Feed These People | Order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Available now!

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I grew up in the '70s and '80s. Those are two decades that I feel like produced maybe twice their fair share of popular culture. And all of that worked its way into Christmas.” - Brian Earl

“Christmas for your great-great-grandparents was very different from what we celebrate. They would take a look at our celebration and sort of recognize it as Christmas, but not really.” - Brian Earl

“During the Christmas season, anything in my community that's going on, any Christmas thing, we're always running around to it, and [my wife] gets a little tired, because she loves Christmas too, but very few people love it as much as I do.” - Brian Earl

“Every year we write the next chapter in the story of Christmas. And I mean that on a small scale–you write the next chapter in your family's Christmas. But then collectively, with changing our behaviors, and just what kinds of things we want as a culture for Christmas, we write the next chapter collectively as the larger Christmas-celebrating community.” - Brian Earl

Guest’s Links

Brian’s Website

Brian’s Instagram

Brian’s Facebook

The Christmas Past Podcast

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

For the Love Podcast episode with “Deck the Hallmark”

Christmas Past: The Fascinating Stories Behind Our Favorite Holiday's Traditions by Brian Earl

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Alexandra Andrews’ “Who Is Maud Dixon?” Nov 04, 2022

We’re celebrating fall in the Jen Hatmaker Book Club (and for those of you who live in the deep south like Jen, our sympathies for the fall leaves you won’t see). Whether it’s actual fall or the idea of fall that gives you that cozy-up-with-a-blanket-in-your-favorite-chair-with-a-good-book feeling, we’re here for it. And we’ve got just the book for your fall reading–our book of the month is none other than Who Is Maud Dixon? by Alexandra Andrews. Alexandra is a journalist, an editor, and copywriter who works from New York and Paris, and this is her very first book! We think she hit it out of the park–and a lot of people feel the same. Who Is Maud Dixon? was named best mystery novel of the year by the New York Times, best book of the year by Time Magazine and has gotten kudos from NPR, Publishers Weekly–and host of other publications.. Can we take a minute to imagine your very first book being met with that level of success? It's so exciting what she's accomplished, and you’ll love hearing how she crafted such a page turner–it will surprise you and there's more than one twist, which is the best kind of thriller. If you’re not already a member of the book club, there’s so much more to discover in the conversations around amazing books we’re reading together. Jump on over to jenhatmakerbookclub.com after this episode to sign up!

Thought-Provoking Quotes:“I'm always inspired the same way, which is reading another book and thinking, oh, I wish I could do that. And for a long time it was mostly nonfiction books and I really wanted to be Joan Didion.” - Alexandra Andrews

“There are a lot of women, or people in general, not just women, who’ve had a tough upbringing, they've been up against a lot of obstacles, and how much leeway do they deserve, and how much can we really blame them for not having the tools to go after success in ordinary ways?” - Alexandra Andrews

“I'd been writing for so long and without any success, and even when I just finished the first draft, I was so happy I finished the first draft. And then when I got an agent, I was just thrilled I had an agent. And then when it sold, every step has felt like icing on the cake.” - Alexandra Andrews

Alexandra’s Links

Alexandra’s website

Alexandra’s Instagram

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeJoan Didon

The Talented Mr. Ripley

Elena Ferrante

Patricia Highsmith

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Wine, Food, and Diversity with Noel Burgess Oct 26, 2022

It’s another episode of our cozy fall series; For the Love of Feeding These People. How could we talk about food without talking about one of the things that pairs with it best. Yes, we’re talking wine on this week’s show, and we’ve got a knowledgeable, smart and decidedly different wine expert joining Jen to talk through food’s most delightful partner. Noel Burgess is a wine writer and influencer who lives in wine country in Northern California. For those of you that love wine, and even better, for those of you who have been looking to add wine to your table, Noel’s approach to wine is refreshing to us all. What’s great about Noel is that he’s on a journey of wine discovery himself—having only started drinking wine less than 5 years ago. He makes wine approachable to all of us and wants us to learn along with him. As Noel likes to say “wines are as diverse as people, spectacular in their perfect imperfections, shaped by their distinct environments, and always evolving.” Sounds like our kind of wine guy. Stick around to the end, where we’ve picked a dish from Jen’s cookbook, Feeding These People, and Noel tells us exactly the right wine to pair with it—just in time for fall entertaining.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Rothy’s | $20 off your first purchase by visiting Rothys.com/forthelove

BetterHelp | Visit BetterHelp.com/forthelove and get 10% off your first month

All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Everyone's palate is different. So to me, the overall thing of it is, it's good to you, then it's a quality wine, whether it costs fifty bucks or five bucks.” - Noel Burgess

“The wine got my attention, no doubt, but the diversity piece is what really fuels my passion and sustains me in this industry.” - Noel Burgess

“What are they doing when it comes to sustainability? What are they doing when it comes to giving back to the earth or to individuals, charities? Those are things I care about because there's so many different wine brands out there. If you're not exercising these things, why am I drinking your wine?” - Noel Burgess

“I do enjoy working in the industry, but it's really about the people. And that's why I focus on those things in my story, versus talking about the technicality of wine. That's important.” - Noel Burgess

“Even though your palate might expand, this is the best way to put it, it might expand, I don't leave behind the brands that I tried in the beginning that I actually do enjoy the taste.” - Noel Burgess

“That outlet to do the things that I love, which is interacting with people and telling real stories, and helping highlight and give a voice to those that don't have as big a voice, is why I'm in HR, is why I'm in the wine, food, travel, hospitality, influencing, print media game, whatever you want to call it. That is the thing, that is the mechanism that I have used to improve the quality of my life.” - Noel Burgess

Guest’s LinksNoel’s Instagram

Noel on Muckrack.com

Noel’s website (coming soon)

Mentioned in This EpisodeTheopholis Vineyards

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Getting Spicy with Instagram Foodie Phenom Tieghan Gerard of Half Baked Harvest Oct 19, 2022

Things are getting even more delicious as we continue with the “Feeding These People” series here on the For The Love Podcast, as we celebrate the launch of Jen’s dream project - her very first cookbook! And like we need an excuse to talk about food (we don’t) so pardon us as we revel in all the foodie-loving goodness our guest this week brings us through her oh-so-delectable, highly followed Instagram channel. We’ve got Half Baked Harvest’s Tieghan Gerard with us this week and we couldn’t be more excited (and a little hungry). Tieghan, much like Jen, got her start in the world of blogging way back in 2012 and was just a natural to move her food thoughts and creations over to Instagram (to the tune of 4.7M followers), and subsequently began appearing on outlets like the Cooking Channel, Food Network, HGTV and more. Tieghan confesses to us, as much as she loves cooking (which came from experimentation as a kid, and watching a lot of Rachael Ray) she loves styling the things she cooks even more. And if you get a look at Half Baked Harvest on the socials, you’ll understand why. From her point of view on food, to her flavor profiles, to how she showcases her beautiful creations, you’ll see her talent–but rejoice in the fact that even though her recipes *look* elevated, they are made for people who might not have a chef’s touch in the kitchen. We were stunned to find out that she wrote AND styled her last three cookbooks (after last week’s episode, where we had Jen’s entire cookbook team describing their work, we marvel at how she does it all). We also love the moments when Tieghan discovers Jen is southern and their hand-clapping delight that they both adore spicy foods (more jalapenos, please) and their aside about how wonderful it is to get to do what you love for a living. Stick around for the end as Tieghan shares her favorite (and easy) go-to recipe that everyone needs for their fall menus.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Storyworth | Save $10.00 on your first purchase at Storyworth.com/ForTheLove

Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.

All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I love to make things look pretty. In my eye, in my head when something clicks, I'm so excited. It clicks, I'm like, "Yeah, this is it. I love it." So that's how I build recipes is I really build them in my head first and I build them based off color, and textures.” - Tieghan Gerard

“I'm so grateful for the gradual growth I've had. I didn't have that one thing that put me on the map. I didn't go on the Today show, there wasn't some giant celebrity shout-out, it was just gradual, steady, consistent growth.” - Tieghan Gerard

“Creating content and interacting with my community, and all of those things are the things that really build my business at the end of the day.” - Tieghan Gerard

Tieghan’s Links

Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Book: Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BONUS] The Power of Our Vote In Bettering the World: Beto O’Rourke Oct 14, 2022

Coming in hot with a sneak peek of the premium podcast content! We’re tackling some tough social issues with these exclusive bonus episodes in the hope of having conversations that will be enlightening and sobering, but also encouraging. Our mission in these conversations is to advance respectful dialogue around hard issues, while looking toward how we can all build a world that we want to hand down to the next generations. And so continuing in this vein, we wanted to get a politicians' 1000 foot view of these issues, how to sort them out, what feels hopeful and what is our role to play. Former US Representative Beto O'Rourke is here with us to talk about all of these things, but in particular, voter’s rights. Whether you’re affiliated with a party at all, I think we can all agree that voting is the right of the American citizen. He walks us through a history of voting, what some of the hurdles have been for all to be able to vote in the past and the present, and how we can better this situation with our voices and our votes.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.

All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“It's just so important [to acknowledge] just how extraordinarily exceptional our form of government is. In the whole of human history, very, very few people on the planet have ever pulled off anything close to a democracy. And even today, though there are more democratic countries than have ever existed before in the history of the world, it's not easy. And most of the planet does not live under free and fair elections.” Beto O’ Rourke

“In 1965, the first Texas president, Lyndon Baines Johnson, signed into law the Voting Rights Act, which really for the first time since Reconstruction, allows everyone to participate in the franchise, regardless of race or ethnicity or country of national origin. It's really a beautiful moment. It was an important achievement and milestone, but none of these victories are final. You’ve always got to keep fighting because the forces that are fighting against democracy, they never rest. “ - Beto O’ Rourke

“The more power you get, the more power hungry you are. And I don't think any human or any party is immune to that. The beauty of our country is you have all these checks and balances and these laws that are supposed to protect democracy. And we really have an opportunity that few generations get to fight for and restore this democracy. So voting is super important, of course.” - Beto O’ Rourke

“We all need to know that we have a role to play. There's something that we can do. We're not merely witnesses or bystanders or on the sidelines. We're in this. And getting registered to vote, that puts you in this.” - Beto O’ Rourke

Guest’s LinksBeto’s website

Beto’s Instagram

Beto’s Facebook

Beto’s Twitter

Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBeto’s book

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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The Making of “Feed These People”: Jen’s Cookbook Stylists Tell It All Oct 12, 2022

It’s time to get into a topic for a brand new series that is near and dear to our hearts—food. We love to eat it, we love to take pictures of it, we love to cook it (well, some of us do). This brand new series, For the Love of Feeding These People, coincides with the release of Jen’s brand new cookbook; “Feed These People,” but lest you think this is one long discussion about Jen’s book, think again. We’re bringing in other food creators whose Instagrams we follow religiously for their culinary creations, we’re bringing in a wine guy (not a snooty one, but one that gives us affordable options and doesn’t shame us if we wonder out loud what wine pairs with corn dogs), and Jen’s own family (sisters, brother and mom) to talk about their family food moments and give up the secrets of their most loved and hated family meals. But for this episode, we’re going deep behind the scenes and uncovering the mystery of how the pictures of food we see in advertisements, websites, instagram feeds, books and more look so darn good. There are people who specialize in photographing food to make it look as sumptuous as possible, and other folks who “style” the food so it appears in the most beautiful atmospheres, and the chefs who cook up every recipe to its ultimate best so the photog and stylist can enhance the magic around it. If you’ve ever been curious as to how that all happens, we have the actual team who put together Jen’s cookbook, and they’re here to dish about all the hours, details, and antics that go into this kind of work, and how they got to the mouth-watering final results. Mackenzie, Maite and Taylor are the dream team behind so many beautiful food shoots and you’ll love the triumphs and the fails they share (including a story about Jen’s Satay with Peanut Dipping Sauce recipe that somehow resembled something REALLY unappetizing) and other hilarious challenges and triumphs that happened while creating Jen’s beautiful new cookbook.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Better Help | Visit Betterhelp.com/ForTheLove to get 10% off your first month of therapy.

Chime | Sign up for your Chime Credit Builder Visa Credit Card today Chime.com/ForTheLove

Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I think my goal with photography, food or not, but especially with food, is to connect, is to make people feel connected. And I love doing that by making things relatable instead of aspirational.” - Mackenzie, food photographer

“Food styling is such a different task because you have to think of all the potential issues that could happen, not only with the actual making of the food, but when you're actually putting it in front of the camera, and the transition that just naturally happens in food.” - Maite, chef and food designer

“I was in Fiesta, if you're not in Texas, that's like this amazing Mexican grocery store, in the canned aisle, and called Mackenzie. And I was like, ‘This might sound crazy, but what if we built a wall of canned food?’ And to her credit, she was like, ‘If you have a vision, let's give it a shot.’ And I think that's a really fun shot. And it was exciting.” - Taylor, food stylist and designer

Guests’ LinksMaite’s Website

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Feed These People: Slam Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker

Connect with Jen!

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Surprised by Love: Jen & Tyler On Where They Started and How It’s Going Oct 05, 2022

It’s time to bring a close to our Dating, Sex, & Relationships series. And what better way to wrap it all than hearing a candid conversation from Jen and her person–Tyler Merritt. If you’ve listened to this series, you might have noticed that Jen has mentioned Tyler–a long time activist and author—a time or two, and that part of the reason for this series was to explore some new territory that Jen has only been exposed to over the last year or so as she tentatively put her toe in the dating waters after the end of her 26 year marriage in 2020. As we’ve stepped through all the new ways we can meet people, or explored the choice to be single, or looked at how to start over after divorce or loss, we’ve heard the threads of Jen and Tyler’s story in all of this mix. And now, they’re here to give us some insight as to “how it’s going,” with all the joys and challenges every new relationship faces, plus some never before heard conversations about how they came together from completely different places in life including; long time married with kids vs. long time single with no kids, navigating the nuances of being a bi-racial couple and coming from completely different cultural circumstances, balancing their careers while nurturing a budding relationship and the bittersweet reality of dating long-distance. This episode is packed with some “in the moment” musings from both Jen and Tyler and also includes some hilarious takes on how a relationship that started as a new friendship turned into long daily text sessions moving to hours long phone conversations, their “define the relationship” talk, and culminating with a fun bonus segment–the For the Love team’s version of “The Newlywed Game,”--where we see how well Jen and Tyler really know each other (you’ll want to see this on video as well over on Jen’s YouTube).

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I just remember thinking, ‘This is weird. This is special. There's something special happening here.’ [Maybe] I just met a lifelong friend and we're going to have to meet up in New York and go see shows–I don't know what's happening.’” - Jen Hatmaker

“I remember telling you I have to have conversations with the people that are close to me in my life because I'm just known as being single, and me not being single affects my single people and it's a lot.” - Tyler Merritt

“What's been great about being in a relationship with somebody who has such a different set of circumstances from me; and it's not just single and married, it's black and it's white and it's only child, it's oldest of four, it is vegetarian, it is hamburgers, and it's no kids, it's five kids. We've got a lot, we have a lot of really interesting differences. And I think I can say honestly that most of them have been really good for me to navigate and to learn.” - Jen Hatmaker

“[I want] to kind of encourage anybody that's in a racial relationship that it doesn't matter how progressive you are, it doesn't matter how far you are into the movement, you're going to run into things that are just different and you've just got to make your way through it.” - Tyler Merritt

Guest’s Links:

Tyler’s website: https://thetylermerrittproject.com/

Tyler’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject

Tyler’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/

Tyler’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/ttmproject

Tyler’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website: http://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook: https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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The Most Empowering Things You Need to Know About Sex & Your Body with Emily Nagoski Sep 28, 2022

As we’ve been learning in our Dating, Sex and Relationship series, there is no one right way to go about finding satisfaction in these areas of life. And the same is true for sex. You deserve to find joy and pleasure in your body and your sexuality just as you are, no matter what. There are so many things that culture has told us about our bodies and our sexuality that aren’t true. We’re going to walk through some of those misnomers and some healthy ways to approach sex with our very wise guest, sex educator and return visitor to our show, Emily Nagoski. Emily describes her mission as helping women live with joy and confidence inside their bodies. She wants us to know that our bodies have wisdom to share, and that our bodies can be trusted–their intuition is actually good for us and our protection. She explains what a sex drive is (actually, what it isn’t, because it’s not actually a thing–surprise!). Emily also shares key findings from couples who sustain strong sexual connection over the long term (and those two things aren’t what people most generally think they are). In this frank conversation about sex, Emily encourages us to lean into our sexual pleasure and shake off any hesitations that are usually due to cultural shame or baggage. And if you think that exploring your sexuality isn’t possible with a busy career, kids, and other responsibilities, Emily removes the myth that scheduling sex makes it less hot. When we normalize all sorts of sexual responses, we remove barriers that keep us from making space for all this pleasure that has always been ours to claim.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“I think having curiosity about our own bodies and continually learning in a non-judgmental way is really important. Trusting the message your body is sending you more than anyone else's expressed opinion about what should be happening with your body. We can believe our bodies over and above anybody else's opinion about bodies.” - Emily Nagoski

“We actually heal ourselves when we allow uncomfortable feelings to melt through our bodies. On the other side of it, that process has healed our bodies and freed us from the lies that we were told when we were small.” - Emily Nagoski

“The person you are is a person worth being. This is the whole you're enough, but the thing is–you are enough. It is only in this like culturally constructed comparison against a fictional and often deliberately unachievable ideal that we torture ourselves about the way our sexuality works.” - Emily Nagoski

“There is no quota of pleasure. There's no such thing as too little pleasure. And there's no such thing as too much pleasure. Nobody gets to judge or decide about your experience of pleasure.” - Emily Nagoski

“Let's make a world with less body shame. Let's make a world where girls are raised to believe that they have a basic right to bodily autonomy and that pleasure is their birthright. They have the right to all the pleasure that their body is capable of experiencing without being afraid of it or ashamed of it or needing to prioritize somebody else's pleasure over theirs.” - Emily Nagoski

“Neurologically, pleasure is a practice. The more we practice paying attention to pleasure, the easier it is for our brains to notice pleasure.” - Emily Nagoski

“Have pleasure. Desire will follow.” - Emily Nagoski

Emily Nagoski’s Links:

Emily’s website: https://www.emilynagoski.com/

Emily’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/enagoski/

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Beyond the Swipe: Mastering the Art of Online Dating with Dating Coach Perri Schneider Sep 21, 2022

When we were putting this series together about love and sex and relationships, we knew we had to have a guest that was well-versed in the ways of dating through online apps and digital services. For those of us who may be seeking a partner for the first time, or maybe we’re back in the dating pool after leaving a relationship–we can all benefit from practical tips on how to navigate it all. All the questions you could possibly think of related to online dating–we’ve got you covered, like: what do you look for when you’re looking at someone’s online profile? What are the red flags? How do I make my own profile reflect who I am and what I want? And is having a meal on a first date really a good idea? [Spoiler Alert: No.] We’ve got just the person to hold our hand through what can be an overwhelming process—we’re happy to introduce online dating coach, Perri Schneider to the For the Love community. She's going to answer all these questions for us and then some, and you’re going to want to take note of what she has to say. Perri's story is one many of us can relate to. After getting fed up with less than stellar experiences in her attempts at modern dating, she decided to help others navigate this online space. She learned through trial and error, and she’s got the 411 on how to master the process. She helps her clients shift their approach and their intentions with dating apps in the hopes that her clients find precisely what they are looking for–whether it is new experiences, casual fun, relationships, or even their dream partner. Consider this your field guide on which apps to use, how to approach a first date, what to do if you’re ghosted, and so much more–and maybe you’ll even find love along the way.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Liquid IV | Get 25% off at liquid-iv.com using promo code For The Love

Feed These People | Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.

All the Dish Tour | Jen is going on tour and will have special guests at each stop! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Find one or two apps that you've kind of heard of or that have a good reputation, and just get your toe into the water. Just go for it. And remember, you are in the driver's seat. It's great. If someone's giving you the heebie-jeebies, you can unmatch someone.” - Perri Schneider

“When you're actively looking at profiles, make it your one active task. That way, you're limiting your time spent and you're kind of pushing away the ability for you to fall into that garbage-y feeling.” - Perri Schneider

“There's no rush to meet seven people at once. Enjoy it. Revel in it. Dating should be fun and enjoyable, first and foremost.” - Perri Schneider

“The best way to kind of break into the dating world and really brace yourself for potential rejection is get on the dang phone with them.” - Perri Schneider

“You're never going to find success when you're not in a space where you can ease-in and really present yourself authentically.” - Perri Schneider

Perri Schneider’s LinksPerri’s website

Perri’s Instagram

Perri’s Twitter

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

When a Long-Term Relationship Ends, Where Do You Begin Again? Ft. Laura Stassi Sep 14, 2022

Producer's Note: Mature subject matter around sex is discussed in this episode.

We’re covering it all in our Relationships, Sex and Dating series, and this week’s episode has a twist. It’s not all flowers, heart emojis, and adrenaline when it comes to love and relationships–finding them, keeping them, growing them. Some of us have done all those things–possibly for many years–and yet for many reasons, find ourselves thrust back into the dating pool after divorce, or death, or when a long term relationship ends. And maybe we never thought we’d have to look to find love again after so many years of being in a relationship. It’s unexpected, it’s disappointing and disorienting. We’ve become strangers in a strange land. Fortunately, we have a guest this week who is going to help map us through that strange land and her name is Laura Stassi. Laura was married for 30 years and went through what researchers have labeled “gray divorce.” As she started to come out of the daze that can set in when your life is completely uprooted in this way–she began to realize that there were a lot more people that had been through the same thing than she had ever imagined. In fact, it’s a worldwide trend. As she noticed that she was in plentiful company with others who were coming out of long term partnerships and trying to figure out what was next, she set her mind to research and that research eventually turned into a popular public radio backed podcast called “Dating While Gray.” Laura and Jen get into it all; How do you navigate today’s world of dating when men and women have thousands of options to choose from via dating apps? What’s it like to have sex with someone new after having sex with the same person for many years? How do you handle finances when you’re both grown ups with assets and income? Find these answers and more from both Laura’s and Jen’s experience, plus a little encouragement that when you’re truly open to new possibilities, the world can open up for you in amazing ways.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Betterhelp | Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/forthelove.

All the Dish Tour| Jen is going on tour! Find your city and get your tickets at jenhatmaker.com.

Feed These People| Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I look back now and people were like, ‘Why were you fighting the end of your marriage so much?’ I was like, ‘You know what? I was scared. I was scared out of my mind.’ Not that I didn't have the strength to be on my own, but I didn't know anybody else who was single.” - Laura Stassi

“Everybody needs to learn how to be on their own happily, financially, emotionally, physiologically. You just need to be comfortable in your own skin, in your own space, in your own skin, however that may look.” - Laura Stassi

“One thing that would behoove all of us is to learn how to be more open with everything. For some of us, I feel like I'm more open mainly because I was forced into it. When you're forced into single's world after being in married land, if you stay close minded about anything, I don't think you're going to have a happy life.” - Laura Stassi

“Money is one of those things that if you're going to become involved with somebody, you need to talk about it. Maybe that means you don't commingle. Maybe that means you don't live together without a cohabitation agreement. The minute you start joining lives officially or unofficially, you want to be very clear about finances.” - Laura Stassi

Laura’s Links

Laura Stassi’s Instagram

Laura Stassi’s Twitter

Laura Stassi’s Facebook

Dating While Gray Podcast

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Shauna Niequist’s “I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet” Sep 09, 2022

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For August 2022, Jen and the club read Shauna Niequist’s I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet. Now, no one in this community is new to Shauna, she has appeared on the show before and is Jen’s dear friend and tour mate.. But in case you are new to this community, Shauna is an author and speaker who authentically shares the hardships she faces and how she works through them. Her newest book, I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet is a poignant and humbling look at her faith, health struggles, and feelings of loneliness as she entered a new phase of life. Every reader can find themselves in the pages, as Shauna is so adept in bringing her story to life in ways we can all relate to. So join us as Jen and Shauna talk about reinventing faith, working towards better health, and healing as a community.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Jen Hatmaker Book Club | Join the sisterhood in nerdiness today at jenhatmakerbookclub.com.

Feed These People| Pre-order Jen’s new cookbook and get free extra recipes, cooking videos, and more at jenhatmaker.com/feedthesepeople. Book is on shelves Oct 18, 2022.

Fall Tour | Get your tickets for Jen’s All The Dish tour at www.jenhatmaker.com

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“The point of storytelling, the point of being a writer is not reporting on your own life. It's holding out these little edges of your own experience and offering them to someone else as an active service saying, ‘Does this help? Does this make you feel a little less alone in the world? Could this keep you company along the rougher parts of your journey?’" – Shauna Niequist

“You can live in the most beautiful house in the world or you can have the coolest friends in the world or the coolest experiences, if your mind and body are not working, none of that matters. None of it.” – Shauna Niequist

“There are seasons where we can't always find a church home and that's okay. And then you practice your faith in a field or watching the water or with your journal, or as you walk the city streets and you pray that maybe there will be a time when you can sit at the back of a church, but your faith doesn't have to look the same way forever.” – Shauna Niequist

Shauna’s LinksWebsite

Real Black Love Instagram

I Guess I Haven’t Learned That Yet - Shauna Niequist

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Singleness = Fullness, Wholeness and Being Open to Possibilities, with Shani Silver Sep 07, 2022

Our For the Love of Dating, Sex and Relationships series continues, and lest you think we’re solidly in the camp of “all people must be paired up,” let us assure you we’re firmly on the side of choosing whatever state of being (attached or not) best fits your life. We’re here, in this episode, to talk about the state and the choice of singleness. So maybe you’re unattached and you want to find the love of your life. Perhaps you’re getting pressure from friends and family as to why you remain available. (we can all hear that well-meaning person’s voice in our ear–”but you’re such a catch! Why are you still single??). Maybe you’ve gone on a LOT of dates (bad and good) and you’re ready to get off that train, but don’t want to give up the notion of potentially finding someone one day. We have good news. You get to choose to be happily single. And that does not preclude you from future partnership. So maybe the happily single part is what you’re struggling with (and that others in your life who want to see you partnered up aren’t helping) but our guest today knows what you’re going through and wants you to know you’re not alone. After years of actively dating and pursuing dates through a variety of digital means, writer Shani Silver decided she didn’t want to spend the rest of her 30’s swiping through face after face to see if maybe love would find her. She decided to go a different route and is here to share where it's led her on her quest to be happy with who and where she is right now. Shani likes to say that she is not an advocate for singlehood necessarily, but an advocate for women feeling good while single. She wrote a book called A Single Revolution: Don’t Look for a Match, Light One which she hopes is helping women feel better about this incredibly valuable time in their lives. She gives us pointers on how to make ourselves available for all kinds of experiences and people–whether we’re looking for love or not—and surprise, it doesn’t necessarily have to involve dating apps or even dating itself! During their conversation, Jen also discusses her tentative steps into singlehood after 26 years of marriage and her brief experience on dating apps, and how love organically found her. Single, married, divorced or looking for love, we can all look at this time in our lives (and in the lives of our friends) as one to be embraced, not scorned, and why, more than ever, it can be a positive, endlessly full-of-possibility way of living.

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Thank you to our sponsors!

Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“What if being single wasn't bad? What if being single was good and valuable and a really cool, positive endlessly possible season of your life? What if it was good? It's challenging just the fabric of our brains in terms of what singlehood means. But that's where it has to start.” - Shani Silver

“You can look forward to your future relationships. You can even pursue them to the extent that you're comfortable doing so. Dating is not a prerequisite for partnership. You can also value and cherish all of the opportunity that you have now to live happily.” - Shani Silver

“I would suggest to people and couples is whatever effort a single [person] is making to be a part of your life, if you can, try to reciprocate that effort. And if you can't, let them know why.” - Shani Silver

“We've got to learn to be happy for people. You don't want to live your life as a jealous person. Be happy for people. Be happy.” - Shani Silver

“We deserve more ways out of singlehood misery than just “find someone” and [those ways] are abundant. They do exist. That's why I talk as ferociously as I do because I found them and I love them. If I can pull myself out of the darkest pit of singlehood despair that exists, anyone can.”- Shani Silver

Shani Silver’s Links

Shani Silver Website

Shani Silver Instagram

Connect with Jen!

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

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Matchmaking for Love in the Modern Age with Joseph Dixon and Paris Denise Aug 31, 2022

Description

We’re bringing you all the goods with our For the Love of Dating, Sex and Relationships series. So if you’ve ever tried dating as a fully grown adult, you might have a few feelings about it. Maybe you’ve been swiping and swiping and swiping (and if this makes no sense to you, it’s okay–you’ll know what it means by the end of this series) and you’re just not connecting with anyone who sets your world on fire. It can really be the wild west out there in the digital dating world, but we’re here to help. Perhaps you’ve perused the dating sites and maybe you’ve even joined a site, created a profile, or taken the leap to go on a date. Dating sites have successfully brought millions of people together, but as they say, you might have to kiss a lot of frogs before you meet your prince or princess (no offense to frogs). But there are more than a few ways to find love if you’re looking for it. And this week we are excited to talk about the world of matchmaking–a way of bringing people together that has a long and storied history–and is still alive and well in our digital age. Founder of RBL (Real Black Love) Matchmaking service Joseph Dixon is on the show with his colleague Paris Denise to give us the finer points of finding love through a matchmaker. . Joseph and Paris entered the world of matchmaking after seeing negative experiences that were affecting long and lasting relationships in their community. Since then, they have been focused and dedicated to connecting people for committed relationships in and for the black community. Matchmaking has come a long way since the Victorian era (and even since our 70’s favorite, The Dating Game) and now with experts like Paris and Joseph at the ready, you can take advantage of a deeper way to find someone to share your life–the art of matchmaking has led to thousands of successful relationships!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I got divorced. I was in my early 30s. There was nothing out there for African American singles looking for substantial connections, and me being a web developer, I decided to go ahead and take the onus on myself to actually build something out to help people like myself find substantial relationships.”

– Joseph Dixon

“We're taking the time to teach people that you need to holistically look at people. And of course income is important, of course assets are important, but also a person's character, their conflict resolution skills, their emotional intelligence and their support, and their general personality and how they receive love and how they give love is important as well.” – Paris Denise

“Change up your dating cycle, change up your dating pattern because you don't know what you don't like until you actually don't like it.” – Joseph Dixon

“When it came to dating apps, when it comes to Black people, it was a taboo in our community. And if you were on a dating app, you didn't talk about it at all, right? This is literally less than 10 years ago.”

– Joseph Dixon

“Don't tell me what you want. I need to find out what you need, because if we can establish that first, then you may find out the person that you've been looking for is not actually the person that you really need." – Joseph Dixon

“People are dealing with a lot of relationship anxiety. They're dealing with a lot of doubt, a lot of trauma. I'm not a genie and I'm not a wizard, but I can definitely get in the trenches with you and help you fight this battle, because it's challenging being single and finding the person that you want.” – Paris Denise

Joseph & Paris’ LinksReal Black Love Website

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The Terror of Being Known Again after Divorce with Cameron Esposito Aug 24, 2022

One aspect of dating after a breakup or divorce is the terrifying ordeal of being known again. Whether it’s because you can’t imagine opening yourself back up to someone in complete vulnerability or maybe you can’t fathom anyone having enough time to plumb the depths of your idiosyncrasies—I mean, who is ever going to take the time to learn your quirks and help you celebrate them in all their unapologetic glory, again? And how are you going to ever forgive the person who disappointed you and doesn’t want to be your #1 knower anymore? With Jen jumping back in the saddle in the dating world, we needed someone to help us all laugh and sift through post-divorce dating tribulations. Cameron Esposito is a comedian, author, podcast host, actor and recovering Catholic; and we’re delighted to have her lead the way for this episode of the Dating, Sex and Relationships series. Like Jen, Cameron went through a public facing divorce and has since found love and happiness. They talk about the complications of coming into yourself while dating when you’re dealing with grief from divorce, trauma from a strict religious culture, and new unexplored feelings around your gender and body. No stone is left unturned in this conversation and Cameron’s frank and honest storytelling is a balm for those of us afraid of a future that doesn’t look like our past.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Certainty used to make me feel safe, it felt like guardrails around me and the way that I knew what the rules were, I knew what to do and not to do. Then those began to lose their appeal, of course, and then became their own prison, ultimately. But curiosity is a completely different posture.” – Cameron Esposito

“Queer culture isn't actually about sex, but because it's been criminalized and othered, it also was embraced and the culture was built around it.” – Cameron Esposito

“To not have characters who represent us [in media] is to remove us from the world. If we're not there, you've removed us.” – Cameron Esposito

“If somebody dies and is erased from the planet, then we can go to that person's people and it's a little more clean to understand that that person might feel grief. I think in the case of divorce, that can get really muddled for folks.” – Cameron Esposito

Cameron’s LinksWebsite

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Unraveling The Source of Our Sexual Shame: Jay Stringer Deconstructs Purity Culture Aug 17, 2022

We’re starting a new series that is going to be fire–it’s For the Love of Dating, Sex and Relationships. We’re going to cover a lot of territory over the life of this series–and with this episode we’re going to start with a question; what was it that you learned about sex during the most formative years of your life? Because whether you realize it or not, this can greatly shape how you approach sex as an adult. Maybe you’ve been unraveling what it is you think about sex, how you think about your body, what sex means to you–and you’re tracing it back to what you learned as teenager or young adult–and maybe that education wasn’t positive. To help guide us through making those connections to our early sexual education and how we view sex today is therapist Jay Stringer–returning for his second appearance on the show. Jay pulls back the curtain on the teachings many of us got about sex when we were young. Even if you never were a part of movements like “True Love Waits,” or received lessons on purity culture by your church, or other religious organizations–perhaps there was a rigid sexual space in the childhood home you grew up in. We’re speaking to all the ways sex might have been presented to us with messages of shame. Jay encourages us to look at our sexual stories, seeking ways to find healing and wholeness toward a healthy view of sex. And bonus–for you parents who find talking about sex with your kids akin to a slow, painful death, Jay and Jen talk through ways can engage our kids around sex without the shame approach that a lot of us experienced, and to have those conversations in a loving, age-appropriate way by being open and responsive.

Content Warning: This episode talks extensively about sex, sexuality, and unwanted sexual behaviors, so it may not be suitable for young listeners.

Thought-Provoking Quotes

“If you hate your sexual desire, and you are militantly trying to stop it, you are going to develop a very severe and harmful theology, and that's exactly what happened in purity culture.” – Jay Stringer

“I've seen the purity culture really affect women in three particular ways. I would say that it deprioritizes women's sexual pleasure. It set women up for sexual violation. Then, the third, is that it contributed to sexual pain.” – Jay Stringer

“I think one of the greatest myths out there is that you can't change your past. In some ways, the past is far easier to change than the future, in that you can go back to that scared, adolescent girl, and you can begin to mother her. You can ask her, ‘what are the things that you wish that you would have known back in the day?’” – Jay Stringer

“When we don't have language for what we're experiencing or what we're coming out of, we aren't going to have language to be able to create a new sexual world, so we've got to educate ourselves. We've got to get into community and start talking through this stuff in order to rewrite our sexual script.” – Jay Stringer

“View sexual difficulties as a stage to be able to rewrite your story.” – Jay Stringer

Jay’s Links:

Website - https://jay-stringer.com

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JayStringerUnwanted/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jay_stringer_/

Twitter - https://twitter.com/_jaystringer

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

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Letters From Me Camp Week 4: Packing Up, Heading Home and Reflections on The Journey Aug 10, 2022

We’ve reached the end friends, sadly Me Camp 2022 is over for the summer. And just like real camp, coming back home is wonderful and bittersweet at the same time. Making new friends, trying new things and getting outside the everyday routine is the magic of camp and Jen reflects on her time in Aspen to her last days in Grand Marais with gratefulness to be able to take this kind of time for herself (and to invite others into the fold, turning MeCamp into WeCamp!). Jen shares how MeCamp began; it started with the need to get away to regroup from a chaotic and heartbreaking season of her life and led to a revelation of what it truly means to take time for yourself to heal. She vowed that she wouldn’t go another year without taking this time, but instead of being born out of sadness, this year’s MeCamp was a deliberate, and joyful excursion. While listing all the the virtues of solo travel, Jen gives us some practical ideas on how we can replicate our own MeCamp— even if we’re not able to travel far or for an extended time. Enjoy this last letter from MeCamp 2022, and let’s start dreaming about our own 2023 MeCamps!

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Sarah Blake’s “The Guest Book” Aug 05, 2022

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For July 2022, Jen and the club read Sarah Blake’s The Guest Book. Sarah is the author of several books including a book of poetry, the New York Times bestseller The Postmistress, and our book this month, The Guest Book. The Guest Book was a New York Times bestseller, an Amazon Best Book of 2019, and found it’s spot at #1 on the Indie Next List in May of 2019. So join us as Jen and Sarah get into what it looks like to write a book over the course of 9 years, how we can all find growth and understanding in the history of our family, and why it’s so important to continue to evolve over time.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“When Obama was running for president in 2008, he reminded us that his presidency was going to kick off a kind of racial awareness. And he especially invoked Faulkner's line, ‘the past isn't dead in this country, it isn't even past.’ And so I wanted to think about why that is, and it seems that doing the family novel was going to help.” – Sarah Blake

“We are often echoing or repeating our parents or grandparents without knowing that's what we're doing because we don't know fully who they are. I really wanted to think about that, or I wanted the novel to think about that.” – Sarah Blake

“I wanted this novel to take a look at the history of racism and antisemitism. And in particular, I wanted to look at it in terms of my family. What was the history inside?” – Sarah Blake

Sarah’s LinksWebsite

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBliss - Katherine Mansfield

The Lighthouse Keeper’s Daughters - Hazel Gaynor

To the Lighthouse - Virginia Woolf

A Ghost in the Throat - Doireann Ní Ghríofa

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Letters From Me Camp 2022 Week 3: Daughters & Friends Bring More We Camp to Grand Marais Aug 03, 2022

Description

With MeCamp on the tail end of it’s 2022 tenure, Jen is still traversing the wilds of Minnesota, trespassing on neighboring roofs to read her book, and bring her beloveds along on the ride with her. So as we enter week 3, Jen’s best girlfriends arrive for 4 days, followed by a visit from our favorite Hatmaker sisters, Remy and Sydney. Jen also gives her takeaways on the value of carving out this kind of time in your life–whether it’s a few days in a tent a couple of miles from your house, or a staycation in a nearby town–it’s really about the time for YOU, and less about where you go or how long you retreat. But for now, as we live vicariously through Jen in Minnesota this week, we’ll visit the local country store, walk between 400 and 4 million stairs on a hike, bike along the lake, and happily wear sweatshirts in July.

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Letters from Me Camp Week 2: Me Camp Turns to We Camp with Tyler Merritt in MN Jul 27, 2022

This year’s Me Camp is in full swing, community. We have traveled from Austin to Aspen, and now up, up, up to the Northwoods of Minnesota, where we find ourselves in Grand Marais. Nestled on the shores of Lake Superior, this teeny tiny town was home to Jen for 3 weeks. And she is doing it all. Eating a plethora of fried fish salads, skipping rocks in the bay, potentially trespassing to sit on a picturesque roof and read her book and drink her wine. BONUS: Jen is joined by none other than the man of the moment Tyler Merritt, who discusses his unique state of being in the great white north, and his surprising and ever-so-northeastern encounter with a music-loving octogenarian.

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Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Lighthouse Keeper’s Daughter - Hazel Gaynor

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

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Letters from Me Camp 2022: Week 1 in Aspen & Tips for Solo Travel (I Spy Katie Couric!) Jul 20, 2022

You guys, it’s time again for us to load up the suitcases, grab the comfy shoes, and head on out to Me Camp 2022. What is MeCamp you say? Jen took an extended solo trip to Maine last year after a really tough season. What she thought might be lonely and maybe a bit TOO reflective became something so rejuvenating and powerful in her life, she couldn’t keep it to herself and began sharing her experiences online with her community. So this year, she decided to mix it up and do some more solo travel (and add some friends in the mix during the time) and pull in her podcast community for all the insight, learnings and fun. This year, join Jen as she spends time in the beautiful Rocky Mountains for week 1 of MeCamp 2022! Binge Jen’s first full week while she hits the town with an open heart and mind, eats where the locals eat, and shop where they shop. Bonus tidbits: she visits the Aspen Ideas Festival, a space filled with some of the smartest humans alive (and maybe a random Katie Couric spotting!). Join us as all (even you folks from Aspen, who might have spotted Jen out there) as we all live vicariously through Jen’s trip to rest, reflect, and learn.

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Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeAspen Ideas Festival

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

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For the Love of Conversations: Jen & Kelly on The Men They Love Jul 12, 2022

The past few weeks have been so nurturing to the collective soul of this podcast community. We have gotten together with a friend, and caught up on all that matters in our worlds (as friends do) and talked through the changes we’ve both faced recently, on finding and keeping friendship alive at this season in our lives, and how we’ve each evolved in our own beliefs. And we’re always a little sad to say goodbye to friends, but we know that the bonds we’ve built here will keep us going til we can meet again. For the last episode of the For the Love of Conversations series, Jen and Kelly share about the men in their lives–from their friends, to their sons, their brothers, fathers and their partners—we speak to the unique relationship the opposite sex brings to our lives. And right now in our culture, in some ways that are fair, and other ways that aren't, men are getting thrown under the bus, somewhat carte blanche. And this is rightly so in many cases and much overdue in some areas. But it still stands that there are good men and boys in our culture, men that defy the misogynistic stereotypes, and they do lift up women and are there for their sisters and their wives and their daughters and their mothers. Jen and Kelly poke at the view of men where they are portrayed as wild and rough and emotionally unregulated–those traits can sometimes be found–but they share stories of their fathers, brothers and friends that show the reverse can be true (Kelly’s story about her dad is a 10-kleenex-er, so get ready), and that the men in their lives have truly taught them how to love better.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Isn't it funny how lucky we can get when the women that we love have men that we love too?”

– Jen Hatmaker

“A table is better with women at it, it also holds that a table is better with men at it. It shouldn't be a room full of either.” – Kelly Corrigan

“It's not true that boys don't have feelings. It's not true that they don't love deeply. It's not true that love doesn't cut them just as deep as it does girls. It's not true that they're not scared to ask a girl to prom. They are tender. It's just the packaging is so wild.” – Jen Hatmaker

“I think we have this metric for coming close to somebody that we love in their pain or in their suffering, that we've got to hit the right notes. We've got to get the formula right. That's not really how suffering works. It's just that you have to do this, but we'll make sure you're just not alone while you're doing it. That's enough.” – Jen Hatmaker

“My parents set a really good example for me of being deeply connected to their friends, the men, the women, everybody. And so I never knew that that wasn't a thing. I just assumed you grow up and you create deep and lasting relationships with the men and women in your life. That's just how you live.” – Jen Hatmaker

Kelly’s LinksWebsite

Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeKate Baer

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

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For the Love of Conversations: Jen and Kelly on Beliefs, Truth, and the Things We Hold Dear Jul 05, 2022

Welcome back to another episode of our For the Love of Conversations series with one of Jen’s best loved friends, author, speaker and podcaster Kelly Corrigan. Both Jen and Kelly have seen strong beliefs give way to new beliefs, and old beliefs be tested by time and experience. It's a wonder to learn as you move through the world, even if those lessons are hard won and hands down, a ton of them are. It's a beautiful and redemptive thing to take a step back and level the playing field you are on–in whatever season of life you’re in–and see if everything that makes up “you:” all the stories you tell yourself about your life and other people and what happened to you and even about your own self–that composite of what you believe. And take heart in knowing that your beliefs don’t have to remain the same forever– they can grow and change with us. Jen and Kelly go deep into what beliefs they hold dear, how the truth that binds us might look a little different than it used to for all of us, and the comfort they find in a community that lives with a sense of curiosity and how to keep that alive for every phase of our beliefs.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I think we're built to evaluate instantly friend or foe. I think that's our evolutionary nature, but we're not on the Savannah anymore. We can take a minute to make that judgment. In fact, the longer we can hold off on making that judgment, maybe the more interesting people and stories we’ll be able to consume in a lifetime.” – Kelly Corrigan

“None of us have everything exactly right because that's not a thing. There's no such thing as always right or always wrong. I just think we would become so much more interesting as a people if we were able to humbly take in a person's differing experience, or opinion, or worry. Those are the people that I want in my life right now. Those are the ones.” – Jen Hatmaker

“We can all love each other and not believe the same things. That's just not a requirement.” – Kelly Corrigan

“Is your version of faith making you kinder, is it making you more loving, is it making you more humble, is it creating peace around you, is it good to other people? That's a kind of faith I can get behind. If it's making you mean, and angry, and hateful, and scared, that needs reexamining.” – Jen Hatmaker

Kelly’s LinksWebsite

Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeKate Baer

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

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For the Love of Conversations: Jen and Kelly on Friendship Through the Years Jun 28, 2022

Friendship is one of those gifts in life we can run to when it feels like the rest of the world just doesn’t get us. On a day when life hasn’t been cooperating exactly as you’d hoped, who hasn’t called that friend we can vent to, cry to, laugh with, and compare notes with? And the longer a friendship goes, the deeper the bond seems to be. But some of us are in spaces in our lives where we’ve had to follow another dream and leave the proximity of our friends. And the work of friendship takes on a different layer. It can be difficult to connect like we used to–even if it was just dropping by to say hi because you could–it’s harder to keep relationships alive when you don’t see your friend daily, weekly, or even monthly. In this second installment of our For the Love of Conversations with Jen and Kelly, we are talking all about friendship and how it changes as you mature, grow, and perhaps even re-locate. And how to keep it going strong—even across the divides of family commitments, jobs, and miles in between. Jen and Kelly first had this conversation over on Kelly’s podcast, but we loved it so much we had to share it here–plus–-Jen has added some of her own insights and comments regarding her friendship with Kelly and what she learned through their conversation.

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Kelly’s Links:

Website - https://www.kellycorrigan.com

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kellycorrigan/?hl=en

Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders - https://www.kellycorrigan.com/podcast

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

For the Love of Friendships: Savoring Your Friendships with Shauna Niequist - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-01/savoring-your-friendships-with-shauna-niequist/

Kate Baer - https://www.katebaer.com

Connect with Jen!

Jen’s website - http://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker

Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker?sub_confirmation=1

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For the Love of Conversations: Jen and Kelly on Hard and Beautiful Change Jun 21, 2022

You know there really isn’t much that’s more comforting than sitting down with one of your friends and talking openly because you know they just get you. They have seen you grow and change and evolve and become who you are today–and they don’t try to stand in the way of that change however hard it may be for them, or for you. These conversations with friends are life-giving. And with that in mind, we thought it might be fun to have a series of conversations here in our podcast community with our best and brightest friends and dispensers of wisdom and humor. And our first conversation partner for this 4-part series is none other than one of our favorite humans herself–author, podcaster and speaker Kelly Corrigan. This first installment of For the Love of Conversations will bring us 4 weeks from Kelly’s own show, Kelly Corrigan Wonders, with new thoughts and insights from Jen herself at the front of each episode. To kick things off, Kelly and Jen tackle the good, the bad, and the ugliest parts of change. We all know that change is hard, not just for us, but for our people–and that pesky inability to see the future makes it even harder. Jen and Kelly lean into the notion that change can be beautiful. It helps us create the life we want for ourselves while growing us into the people we’ve always wanted to be.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Change, although it can be literally devastating, can also, and generally does, turn out to be a great and wonderful good.” – Jen Hatmaker

“There's something in us, even in the worst possible scenario that compels us to live, that compels us to recover and to reach for hope and light and love.” – Jen Hatmaker

“Somebody is going to make you laugh just when you thought you might never smile again. You get to borrow from their life force until your own returns.” – Jen Hatmaker

“In chasing change the risk is worth the reward as it makes us fuller, rounder, more compassionate human people. It brings us closer to alignment, into what we love, what we're good at, what has meaning to us, what brings us to life.” – Jen Hatmaker

Kelly’s LinksWebsite

Kelly’s Podcast, Kelly Corrigan Wonders

Books & Resources Mentioned in This Episode

Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can’t Stop Talking - Susan Cain

The Middle Place - Kelly Corrigan

Worst End of School Year Mom Ever - Jen Hatmaker

Simple Habit App

Kate Baer

Connect with Jen!Jen’s website

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Relax–It’s Just Food! Finding the Fun in Cooking with Teri Turner Jun 14, 2022

As we come to the end of our Favorite Pastimes series, we hope you are filling your summer with your favorite activities —and maybe some new ones we’ve talked about here! Our series wouldn’t be complete without a conversation about one universal pastime that is approached with either love or loathing—cooking! Perhaps cooking has become nothing but drudgery for you and those ungrateful kids who eye your culinary masterpieces with disdain have made you turn to slinging out Lunchables and microwave mac and cheese. Or maybe you are single and cooking for one seems like a chore. Or maybe you *think* cooking could be your thing but you’re intimidated by the lingo and measurements and if you have the right appliances (Hot Pots! Air Fryers! Immersion Blenders! Oh my!). No matter where you fall on the cooking spectrum, easy and delicious summer cooking is within your reach and we have a guest who is here to help us claim our cooking identity. Teri Turner is an author, home cook, and podcast host who has turned her love of the kitchen into a whole career for herself. Her mantra is “It’s Just Food,” —takes the pressure off, right? She encourages us to find our “food thing” and how we can perfect that signature dish that will have even the most skeptical palates coming back for more. Teri’s tips include Whole30 options, gluten free dishes—she leaves nothing behind. Teri makes cooking seem accessible to us all—and promises our kitchens can be places of joy and magic-making.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I love sharing inspiration for food and I love tips and tricks to get you in the kitchen and to cook real food, because all of us are on our phones all the time. We're busy, we’re going out to eat. And we just have to get back to take a breath and get back to cooking some beautiful food. And find the joy that comes from cooking food, eating it with friends, and the celebration of cooking.” – Teri Turner

“Here’s the thing, we have to eat anyway so we might as well surrender to it and allow cooking to be something spectacular and fun.” – Teri Turner

“Go for what you want and make it happen and believe in yourself. And by the way have a lot of fun doing it.” – Teri Turner

Teri’s LinksWebsite

Table Talks Podcast

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeNo Crumbs Left : Whole30 Endorsed, Recipes for Everyday Food Made Marvelous - Teri Turner

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Abi Dare’s “The Girl With The Louding Voice” Jun 10, 2022

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For May 2022, Jen and the club read Abi Dare’s The Girl With The Louding Voice. Abi is originally from Lagos, Nigeria and went on to study law in the UK at the University of Wolverhampton and eventually earned her MA in Creative Writing at Birkbeck, University of London. Not only is she an incredible writer, she is also a major advocate for women’s education. Her husband inspired her to write this book and it came about after discussing how they saw housemaids treated during their childhood. The Girl With The Louding Voice was a New York Times Bestseller, a #ReadWithJenna Today Show book club pick, and it was an Indie Next Pick. This story whipped up a ton of talk and for a good reason, it helps folks see the impact lack of education, opportunity, and freedom can have on young girls across the world. So without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with author extraordinaire, Abi Dare.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I knew I wanted to tell a story of a young girl who was semi illiterate and had only three years of education. And that was very different from who I am. And so I decided to try to create a character that I could give her the story that she deserves.” – Abi Dare

“In your own little tiny way, and with tiny little gestures of kindness of reaching out, you can change a life. And you can make a difference.” – Abi Dare

Abi’s LinksInstagram

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeBig Little Lies - Liane Moriarty

My Sister, The Serial Killer - Oyinkan Braithwaite

Open Water - Caleb Azuma Nelson

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Travel the World on a Ramen Budget, ft. “The Points Guy” Brian Kelly Jun 07, 2022

Time to grab your passport and packing cubes! The world’s back open for travel—and if you’ve tried to book a trip recently, you know that, hello, the prices are a smidge higher than they used to be. But with a little planning and a lot of advice from The Points Guy, you can rack up the credit card points that’ll get you to unforgettable destinations around the world for a fraction of the price! Brian Kelly, The Points Guy himself, joins Jen to share how he turned his love of a good deal into a lifestyle brand sharing travel how-to’s for every budget from every corner of the planet (it’s a *wild* story!). Brian tips his hand on the best-kept trips you need to take at home and abroad, how you can earn enough points for a free flight to Europe in 90 days, all while building a credit score that can unlock opportunities at home while you plan your next getaway. #practical This episode is a treasure trove of travel tips, so grab a pen and paper—and maybe a fruity drink with an umbrella—because your next adventure is closer than you think!

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I think what I've done with points is take this really granular boring subject and kind of make it fun and ‘look what I can do.’ And being 6'7" whenever I test out airline seats and hotels, I'm like, If I can be comfortable in this seat you can too. And I added my own personality into it whereas a lot of other bloggers were kind of clinical and just taking pictures of the plane seat and the plane whereas I kind of injected a little fabulousity into it.” – Brian Kelly

“I just want to put this out there for people: if you're paying with cash or debit card, you're paying for my points. . . . When you pay cash, you're losing money because you're not getting the rewards that are built into the cost of goods.” – Brian Kelly

“When you find amazing deals, book it because most airlines will let you cancel within a day. So don't call all your friends and try to herd the cats on taking the trip, book the flight and then take 24 hours to double check you can do it. Book now, think later, that's my advice.” – Brian Kelly

“The coolest thing about points is that you can get points for free, essentially. In the US it's so lucrative—no other country can you get points paying your rent or doing online shopping. And so basically what you want to do, the foundation of any good points strategy, is maximizing your spending.” – Brian Kelly

“There's certain places you go that are just spiritual that have that energy and it's Guatemala, the food, it's safe. I've been to Guatemala multiple times, and everyone I take is like, ‘This is amazing, why doesn't everyone go here?’” – Brian Kelly

“I do believe people become better people, the more of the world they travel. You realize that other people are not scary, they're actually amazing.” – Brian Kelly

Bryan’s LinksBrian’s website, The Points Guy

Brian’s Instagram

Brian’s farm, Carbon Ridge Animal Sanctuary

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Creating Magic from our Favorite Pastimes: “PieLadyBooks” Stephanie Hockersmith May 31, 2022

When it comes to hobbies and pastimes, the inspiration can be drawn from anywhere. Maybe it was something you did during the summer as a kid, or it was an activity you loved to do with your mom in her freetime. No matter where your inspiration stems from, perhaps you’ve returned to it today and it brings you peace, comfort and even healing. Our guest this week was diagnosed 15 years ago with Celiac Disease, with neurological implications that put her in a wheelchair. Looking for solace and healing, she turned to her two favorite things: reading and gluten free baking. Stephanie Hockersmith, aka, PieLadyBooks, took her therapeutic pastime and has turned it into an absolutely amazing Instagram page and now small business (and healer herself in the process)! She takes covers of her favorite books and turns them into the most incredible pies you have ever seen! If you are curious like we were when we first met Stephanie, be sure to head over to watch this episode on YouTube as we’ll be sharing some of the incredible pies she’s created there. You’ll be inspired as Stephanie talks about how she stumbled into this art, how it guided her healing process, and why believing in yourself creates magic if you let it.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I got really, really sick about 15 years ago. It was actually celiac disease. My husband really loved pies, so I thought, "You know what? I'm going to try to really master a yummy gluten-free pie.” I just researched and researched and researched and it kept me alive in a lot of ways. As you're healing and your body's getting stronger, I had this project to work on, and so I started making these really beautiful pies.” – Stephanie Hockersmith

“It's exciting to see magic in yourself and to see yourself as something magical. I have a really hard time embracing that but pie making has helped me.” – Stephanie Hockersmith

“I am abundantly grateful. It is the most weird little niche I could have ever imagined. I never expected it, and if I could say that to anybody it's I went from being in a wheelchair 15 years ago to The Today Show last week. So you just never know where your journey's going to go.” – Stephanie Hockersmith

“Don't give up and keep fighting for that magical part of you that makes you feel alive, because it's crucial to who we are and allows us to pour out into others in such big ways.” – Stephanie Hockersmith

“For anyone looking to find their creative niche, I would say to just start. Start something, find something that gives you spark.” – Stephanie Hockersmith

Stephanie’s LinksInstagram

Stephanie’s Girl Power Playlist

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeToday Show Appearance

The Smallest Part - Amy Harmon

Untamed - Glennon Doyle

All The Blues Come Through - Metra Farrari

The Girl With The Louding Voice - Abi Dare

All Along You Were Blooming - Morgan Harper Nichols

With The Fire on High - Elizabeth Acevedo

Fight Song - Rachel Platten

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Nurture Your Garden, Nurture Yourself with “Garden Marcus” Bridgewater May 24, 2022

Aren’t we all inspired by people who have taken their favorite hobby, or their little side hustle, or their craft–and they invested in it, they loved it so much that it became their main thing? In this series, we’ve introduced a variety of pastimes we all can enjoy this summer–the kinds of things that give us that break from the daily grind–but in doing so, we’re also talking to folks who took the leap to make their pastime their career. And in this episode, we’re giving a nod to a pastime that’s been exploding over the past few years–a love for plants and gardening! For many, gardening has long been a part of their favorite pastimes, but we’re seeing it become more accessible to weekend gardeners, others who thought they could never be good at it, or those who thought the whole proposition of keeping another living thing fed and watered was overwhelming at best. Marcus Bridgewater, aka, Garden Marcus, is our horticultural guide to the secret of growing healthy plants, and simultaneously, becoming more healthy ourselves. He presides over an insanely popular Instagram account, is a content creator and a CEO of his company Choice Forward, where he offers workshops, presentations, life coaching, and more to empower individuals and strengthen communities. Jen shares the story of her metamorphosis from becoming a plant murderer to plant mom with the advent of two little hanging plants entrusted to her by friends in a season where she was struggling to nurture herself; much less two plants. Marcus also gives us a peek into his new book, How to Grow: Nurture Your Garden, Nurture Yourself, and shows that it is possible to keep ourselves, our loved ones and our plants thriving and growing.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“Not to deter people from plant care, but taking care of plants can be a science in a way. There are lots of levels of thought and things to consider, lots of variables that affect them, but the rewards are so cosmic that it makes all of that effort worth it.” – Marcus Bridgewater

“Every time I walked into the garden, it made me a better teacher, it made me a better friend, a better person.” – Marcus Bridgewater

“All living things respond to vibration. Your voice is a collection of vibrations, and so this means your voice can be a valuable tool if you use it wisely. So, be conscious of how you use your voice, because if you're not using your voice with kindness, chances are you're not building community.” – Marcus Bridgewater

“There's no reason to not get plants, but there is also no reason to have them and have them decline and have them cost you. They're an incredible tool and that tool can become a vice if we are not conscious.” – Marcus Bridgewater

“We need to plant seeds of love, kindness, patience, and positivity so that we can grow wholesome roots, that will yield trees of prosperity, which will then yield fruits of success that we can all enjoy. And I think that if we are more conscious of those seeds, we can live in a future that has a forest of prosperity for us to all enjoy.” – Marcus Bridgewater

Marcus’s LinksWebsite

Silver Sword Philodendron

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeChoice Forward

How to Grow: Nurture Your Garden, Nurture Yourself - Marcus Bridgewater

Dana Hammarstrom - Co-Founder of Choice Forward

Plants Mentioned From Easiest to Hardest to Maintain

Philodendron Giganteum

Dieffenbachia

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Audacity to Believe In Yourself and Your Art with Jaime Kurowski May 17, 2022

As we continue on in our Favorite Pastime series, we’re reveling in all the opportunities that are hiding in plain sight–through the beloved activities, we cherish in our spare time. No spare time, you say? We understand—and that’s where our series has a delightful twist–these folks took their passions and hobbies and turned them from hobbies into full-fledged careers. So you think those toaster cozies you like to knit can’t be a full time gig? Think again–we’ve got creators, makers and dreamers of all ilks–and this week’s guest is one for the books! She is an artist, a poet, a driftwood collecting connoisseur–yes you heard us right–and she is creating the most unique, beautiful and accessible art that you would ever hope to see. Jaime Kurowski has always felt the call to pursue art, as it’s ingrained in her family tree. So when she took a sabbatical from teaching to pursue her driftwood creations, it wasn’t a big surprise for anyone. But like many creatives, her work comes from a place of darkness. One devastating event led to another and Jaime found herself seeking healing from her profound emotional and physical brokenness. Part of her healing was finding a new way to unwind, express herself, and put light into the world. She came through that rough season and now has a company of her own that is thriving, and also heads up a collective of female business owners and artists who have gone through similar journeys, who all focus on finding the audacity to believe in themselves and their talents.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“This is my first year where I'm a full-time creative, and I'm reinventing the things that I loved about teaching, my passion for creative writing, and my passion for the words that we have on repeat in our head, women, adults, and children. And then using the driftwood to give it art.” – Jaime Kurowski

“She was free. And when she returned to the trees, she dressed herself in lovely, placed flowers in her hair. Let sensuality slip off her shoulder, slipped strength upon her feet, looked down at this solid ground and finally stepped into herself.” – an excerpt from a poem by Jaime Kurowski

“If you ask a fourth grade class what they have on repeat, they're like, ‘I'm stupid,’ or ‘I'm ugly.’ And the confidence camp that I did for them to have a place to not be alone in that, is everything to me.” – Jaime Kurowski

Jaime’s LinksWebsite

The Make(Her) Collective Website

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeThe Make(Her) Collective

For the Love of the Elephant in the Room: Grief on Your Terms with Sal & Im

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Not Outdoorsy, But Love Being Outside? REI’s Ben Steele Helps Us Find Our Outdoor Zen May 10, 2022

We’re back with another episode in our For the Love of Favorite Pastimes series, and this week, we’re talking about the great outdoors. And in case you think this topic is just for those of you who find their greatest joy loading up piles of gear to go hiking for 20 miles every weekend, or for all the rabid runners, cyclists, swimmers, campers, and the rest of you that make the other half of us real, real tired––there’s something for all of us who may like being outside, even those who aren’t necessarily the outdoorsy type. Maybe your jam is barbecuing outside with friends, or sitting on your porch swing à la Jen Hatmaker. At the end of the day ,we can all agree (and science proves) that spending time in nature makes a person happier. And that’s the message this week’s guest is taking to the masses. Ben Steele is the Chief Customer Officer at REI - the nation’s largest consumer co-op for the outdoor community. Ben didn’t grow up with an innate love for nature, even though it was a part of his family’s life in Idaho. It wasn’t until he found his own outdoor personality as an adult that he truly appreciated the benefits of spending time outside (and surprise– it doesn’t have to involve driving miles away from home or having oodles of gear).

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“There is science that says when folks have access to green spaces, have access to clean air, have access to time outside, you're healthier as an individual and at a societal level.” – Ben Steele

“The only part of your day you truly control is what time you get up. So I get up early to get my time outdoors every day on the weekdays. And there's definitely days I'd rather stay in bed, but if I put it off for the end of the day, there's always something that comes up.” – Ben Steele

“The outside is not an equally safe space for everybody. It's certainly true for women. It's certainly true for people of color. It's certainly true for even different identity groups. And so we've got to be honest about everything from racist naming of outdoor places, to a legacy of stolen land, to the reality that, depending on who I am, I may not feel that comfortable outside or around other people.” – Ben Steele

“Relatively early in COVID [REI] had built a beautiful new headquarters and we sold it. We made the

decision that we'd rather have these dollars working for our employees, working for our customers, working for our business. So we've been in a virtual environment with a couple of satellite offices for the last few years. And that was a big change for our headquarters. We're trying to recognize, ‘wow, my days at home are really efficient and really effective and productive. My days in the office are really connected.’ Both of those things matter.” - Ben Steele on achieving work life balance.

“I think for somebody who says I'm not an outdoors person, I'm not outdoorsy. I think what I'd ask is what they like to do outside? And it might be a barbecue in the backyard with their family. They love to sit on the front porch and watch the world go by. They love to watch a sunset or they love birds. Whatever you like, find a way to pursue that.” – Ben Steele

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeREI Co-Op

REI Gear Trade-In

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Sarah Penner’s “The Lost Apothecary” May 06, 2022

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For April 2022, Jen and the club read Sarah Penner’s The Lost Apothecary. Sarah began writing seriously back in 2015 after attending a lecture by one of our favorite authors–Elizabeth Gilbert. Soon after that moment, Sarah enrolled in her first creative writing class, and y’all, how lucky are we that she did. Her book, The Lost Apothecary, was an instant success. It debuted at #7 on the New York Times bestseller list, and has been translated into over 40 languages. Based on a real-life mudlarking discovery (and yes, she explains what that is), Sarah takes us back in time to see how one woman created space for women everywhere to do what they needed to do. So, we are more than thrilled to bring this conversation to you all with the wonderful and talented Sarah Penner.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

“I don't think Nella is a hero or a villain. I think she's somewhere in the middle. And that's how all of us are really, none of us are heroes. None of us are villains. We're all somewhere in the middle.”

– Sarah Penner

“Sometimes we can meet someone and just form an instant friendship, sisterhood, connection, whatever you want to call it. And those can be the people that are most impactful in our lives. We don't need to only rely on these friends that we've had our whole lives. Sometimes the people that we need the most are just right there in the near vicinity.”

– Sarah Penner

"Betrayal is part of the human experience. And one of the most enjoyable things about writing this book was I was able to compare and contrast how things were different with 200 years between them. And one of the main things that was the same is how we are all hurt by people that we love. And 200 years from now, nothing will have changed."

– Sarah Penner

Sarah’s LinksWebsite

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeI Capture the Castle - Dodie Smith

Bloomsbury Girls - Natalie Jenner

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Turning Junk into Treasure (and a Treasured Life) with the Junk Gypsies May 03, 2022

What’s your favorite pastime (go with us here, we know that lots of us don’t even know the concept of having time for a pastime). Imagine being able to really spend time in your garden, instead of just hoping it will rain or the rabbits don’t eat your bounty. Think about being able to carve out some time to write–really giving some thought and intention to your journal or that spark of a story you’ve been thinking about for awhile. Taking time for what matters to us, aside from doing the things we need to (and yes, that matters to) is like nurturing our soul–it helps us become fuller versions of ourselves, and in the end, those respites make us better at our “real” jobs/routine/duties. That’s why this series is coming in hot–to help us make that step in allowing that outside passion to become a part of our weekly schedule. For the Love of Favorite Pastimes delves into how to identify the things that spark joy and passion in our days, and give ourselves space for them–no matter how small that space may be. And to kick this whole series off, we are thrilled to welcome friends of the show and Jen, Amie and Jolie of the Junk Gypsies. Now, we know you all know who these ladies are and we can’t believe it’s taken so long to get them on the show. But, now that we have them, we will be talking to them about their side passion (and how that turned into a full time business), how they pursued it with nothing more than a pick-up truck and a dream, and how their love for other people’s junk turned into a treasured way of life.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

"Between college and retirement, there's a mindset that if you don't really like it, you'll just work until retirement anyway. And we were like 'No, we don't want that,' and money was never the most important thing. It was always about quality of life." - Amie Sikes

“We don't have a plan of what's going to happen next year. But we stay open-minded and we don't stay too rigid as we try to bend and flow and be open to opportunities. But we've said no to some that we probably should have said yes to, and yes to some we probably should have said no to.” - Jolie Sikes

“We started doing dressers and side tables and eventually working our own aesthetic into it. So all of a sudden, it's becoming not just a booth where you buy furniture, but your customers are buying into our lifestyle.” - Amie Sikes

“The way we dress, the way we decorate, it's a reflection of you so why would it be boring? You're not boring. So if your home is a reflection of you and your adventures and personality, why would you want everything the same color?” - Jolie Sikes

Junk Gypsies LinksWebsite

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Language that Transcends Differences–The Poetry of Faith ft. Pádraig Ó Tuama Apr 26, 2022

We’re wrapping up our Faith Shakers series this week, and we hope you’ve found it as eye-opening and enlightening as we have to see what people of faith in non-traditional spaces have been doing to make the world a better, more thoughtful place. This episode takes us to yet another unique space where faith and art are being combined to great effect--and it’s through poetry. In case you’re having flashbacks to Shakespearean sonnets you had to study in high school, fear not. We’re going beyond poetry to recognize the beauty in the lyrics we love from our favorite songs, to the way thoughts are constructed by deep thinkers like modern poet Maya Angelou. Language, words, and poetry have always been a tool deeply embedded inside any sort of faith search. So this week, we welcome a poet who also happens to be a theologian, and he's going to walk us through the powerful ways that poetry can bring healing, hope, and reconciliation, Pádraig Ó Tuama is a poet and theologian whose work centers around language, power, conflict, politics, and religion. For several years, he was the leader of Corrymeela Community—Ireland's oldest organization focused on religious reconciliation. He’s also the in-house theologian for the NPR show On Being, with Krista Tippet. Pádraig focuses on conflict resolution who dedicates his life to creating safe spaces for all people within the religious realm. He shows us all that communication, understanding, and landing in the gray space is the way forward and that we can all find our faith space, no matter who we are or where we come from.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes

"Conflict can be the place for brilliant friendships to thrive, and experience electricity for themselves. So sometimes you want to amplify conflict because it's really fruitful, energetic, and creative. But when it gets violent, or destructive, or fruitless, then it needs to be resolved."

– Padraig O Tuama

“I have no interest in whether somebody does or doesn't believe in God. I have no interest in whether we agree. That doesn't interest me at all. I hope we don't, I don't agree with myself, so I don't really agree with anybody else.”

– Padraig O Tuama

"I have a deep interest in wondering, 'do the words we use help us make some kind of sense of the world?' And when there's no sense to be made, do the words we use help give our grief voice?"

– Padraig O Tuama

“So much of the work of peace can be undone by the peace field being partitioned, and segregated, and fighting amongst itself.”

– Padraig O Tuama

“I'm uninterested in neutrality. I am interested in fairness and trustability.”

– Padraig O Tuama

"If you were to gather all the authors of the bible, and put them in a field, I think they would hate each other at times. They would not agree with each other on this word of God, or the question of God. And as a result, I thought, ‘Oh my God, there's room for me.’"

– Padraig O Tuama

Padraig’s LinksWebsite

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Finding Our Spiritual Homeland with Krista Tippett Apr 19, 2022

In the past, questioning the spiritual majority was unacceptable. Not only were people of faith expected to fall into line and just accept what was laid out by church leaders, but they were also expected to carry those beliefs throughout their entire lives–even when those tenets no longer aligned with their own values. And if they dropped them? Well, then they likely got dropped by their faith institutions. Fortunately for us all, there have been some quiet trail blazers who have been pushing at the edges of those institutions, asking hard questions, and paving the way for so many of us to shift and develop and grow our faith into living, breathing entities that enhance life–instead of being burdensome. One of those trailblazers joins us this week—the creator and host of the On Being radio show (and podcast) on NPR–Krista Tippet. Krista, like so many of us, grew up entrenched in the church–going three times a week, including Wednesday night suppers (we never turn down a potluck here) and it was her family’s main social life and community. Since beginning her career as a journalist Krista began to see that whenever religion was discussed in public, in the news or on public radio, it had the effect of shutting people's imaginations down. She wanted to show people that you could talk about it, and we could speak about the part of ourselves that we’re referring to when we use the words “religious or spiritual” in a way that allowed for questions and differing opinions. Now, 20 years and hundreds of fascinating interviews later, she has changed the way we talk about faith publicly and allowed space for it to be full of inquisitiveness and beautiful mystery–enabling so many to find a faith that feels like home to them. You’ll want to be sure to listen all the way to the end where Krista reveals the surprising reason she started her show, On Being, and the touching situation that is saving her life right now.

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“How we do school, how we do medicine, how we do law, how we do politics, how we do church, how we've done religion. They don't make sense for who we are becoming and what we're learning, and how we live, and the way our technologies have upended things.” – Krista Tippett

"I have developed this absolute delight in mystery, and I also believe mystery is orthodoxy right? We are told there are things we will not understand in this lifetime. And standing before that with reverence and humility is part of being devout. For me, this all works together now and it feels like an adventure." – Krista Tippett

“We live in this time when faith is evolving, and our traditions are evolving, and our experience of [faith] is evolving. We are evolving.” – Krista Tippett

“Depression, it's so hard to describe, although so many people have been through it now. It's not just not having a sense of hope or joy, or what those might look like in the future. It's not being able to imagine how that ever felt or that it could possibly ever happen again. The bottom fell out of my understanding–all these things I had told myself about my family and the love that I knew growing up, I had to get honest about who I was and how I'd survived and how hard my survival techniques had been on me.”

– Krista Tippett

Krista’s Links:

Website

Books & Resources Mentioned in This EpisodeWalter Brueggeman - Author, Speaker & Professor

The Prophetic Imagination - On Being with Walter Bruggeman
Thích Nhât Hanh - Vietnamese Buddhist & Activist
Desmond Tutu - Bishop & Theologian
Mary Oliver - Poet
I Got Saved By the Beauty of the World - On Being with Mary Oliver

Connect with Jen!

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Is the Church Dead? A Millennial's Perspective on Religion with Casper ter Kuile Apr 12, 2022

A dilemma that has gripped the hearts of traditional church leaders and their followers is the trend toward “non-affiliation–” those folks referred to as the “Nones” - who check “none” when asked if they affiliate with any religion or attend any church. Which begs the question–why? Why aren’t people attending church like they used to? And why are people outright leaving the church? Are people still seeking and finding spiritual community somewhere out there? Writer, speaker and co-founder of the Sacred Design Lab, Casper ter Kuile–a graduate of Harvard Divinity School who once identified as an atheist–has done some fascinating research on why people–millennials in particular–are leaving religious institutions in droves; what it is they are searching for, and the surpising places they are finding connection and hope. Caspar published a study titled How We Gather, which discusses this millennial exodus from the church, and how they are transitioning into a more spiritual journey instead of a religious one. For those of us who may have been embedded in traditional church culture for years and now find ourselves at a crossroads because of the politicization of religion, or perhaps because of untenable behavior that occurred behind closed doors at churches for years wondering if we can see ourselves in spiritual community ever again, This conversation with Jen and Caspar reveals the darker reasons for the detachment many have from religion and church, but also insight into a transformation on how we might practice a new “religion” that draws from the best of tradition and the new and inspiring ways people are congregating.

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Social Media and Spirituality with Heather Thompson Day Apr 05, 2022

We’re back with another installment of our Faith Shakers series–talking to people who are doing work in the name of faith in “not so typical places,” using nontraditional ways to bring life and light to people's lives. One of the not so typical places people of faith are congregating more than ever is on social media. So many of us have a love/hate relationship with the medium. Sometimes it gives us the feeling of connection and community–especially during times where connection in person isn’t possible (remember the pandemic lockdown, everyone?). Other times, it can be a source of stress, a place where we’re constantly comparing ourselves to others, an alternate reality of only our “best selves” shown to the world through carefully curated content. Religion, faith and spirituality have their place on social media, and with emerging generations–millennials, Gen X’ers–many have never known life without it. But how do we navigate that quality of instant gratification that social media so readily supplies and find true connection and community that will challenge us, instruct us, and maybe even pastor us in the digital space? This week’s guest has done a lot of work looking at and studying digital communication spaces, and she is here to pass on what she has found so that we can better know the power of digital communication and make social connections that are positive, productive and beneficial. Heather Thompson Day is the host of Viral Jesus, a podcast that discusses these very things. She’s also an associate professor of communication at Andrews University and she’s intent on serving students and women in navigating the digital space toward the best possible end–good self image, finding conviction and even handling disagreements. This isn’t your grandma’s Sunday school class y’all–Heather gives us the tools to find a whole different way of experiencing our faith through our social channels.

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Can Faith Thrive Within Political Divides? Lisa Schultz from the US Senate’s Chaplain’s Office Mar 29, 2022

We’re not always comfortable with people who push us past our comfort zones, who ask hard questions, who bring us a different perspective, a different angle–but we get so much from there. As we continue our Faith Shakers series, we’re talking to people who challenge unjust systems and are doing dynamic things in faith spaces and how those things are positively impacting the world. This week’s discussion takes place at a location that many would consider to be a hotbed of divisiveness–where many believe it hard to show love; the center of our political world–Washington D.C. This particular location is important because it's representative of our public discourse, the direction of our country's legislation, policy, and rhetoric. As we explore this highly emotional and volatile topic, we have a guest who has been standing on the frontlines and helps us take it apart compassionately. Lisa Schutlz is the chief of staff for the United States Senate chaplain, Barry Black. For 15 years, she’s been directing all of Chaplain Black's programs and outreach to all senators, their families, and any Senate staff. Jen and Lisa really get into what faith looks like in Washington DC right now. There's some hope baked into this conversation, and Lisa’s very unique perspective on faith in our highly charged political world gives us insight on how we can “brave the wilderness” in this political divisiveness to build bridges that might bring us together in love.

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Who Says God is a White Man? Finding Ourselves in the Divine with Dr. Christena Cleveland Mar 22, 2022

We’re back with a fourth episode in this powerful series; For the Love of Faith Shakers. As many of us

who might have come from a Western evangelical Christian community, we were presented a God that

has a strong patriarchal presence. As we dig into the history of that, we learn that this image has been

crafted, held together and governed by men, as those in power tend to shape the deities as they want to see them. However, history–the same written and oral history that gives us the basis for the Bible–tells us that Jesus likely wasn’t caucasian with blue eyes as we often see him depicted, but that he was Jewish, born and raised in the middle east and more than likely, was a person of color. But the

image of white Jesus took root, as well as God as a white man, his father, also a man, emerging from

The clouds in a fury–ruling with an iron fist. This generally serves one group of people in one gender, but has been so painful and difficult for black and brown and female and LGBTQ+ communities to see

themselves in their creator; and to feel safe with this God, to feel cherished, to feel protected, to feel

included. And so to give us some insight toward moving beyond this narrow, potentially abusive and

oppressive view of God, we're talking with Dr. Christena Cleveland. Dr. Cleveland is a social psychologist, an author and activist who grew up in white evangelical spaces and was a popular speaker and influencer in that world for many years. As a researcher and former professor of Divinity at Duke University, she's done some amazing study around the patriarchal forces in Christianity and other religions, which led to some dismantling of this practice of silencing the feminine side of God's

intimate presence in our life. It wasn’t until she looked at her own history of being “othered” by the

white leaders in her religious background that she began to understand the tension she felt about her

relationship to God as a black woman. This led to a journey of figuring out who God was to her and how we all–no matter our gender or our color–can find ourselves in the Divine.

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Reconnecting to Our Faith Through Art: Morgan Harper Nichols Mar 15, 2022

Through our entire Faith Shakers series, we’ve been finding the places where faith is vibrant and alive–both outside the church and inside it–and who has been creating safe spaces for faith to be expressed; no matter where you fall on the religious spectrum. For centuries, art has been an integral part of the religious tradition. Some of the most breathtaking art was commissioned by leaders of the church and still adorns the walls, architecture, windows and gardens in some of the most famous religious landmarks all over the world. However, over the last century, the tie to art and religion seems to be tenuous. And those creatives who seek to express their faith or their relationship to God through art don’t always have a conduit to do so in religious spaces. But, like the faith shakers they are, people who connect to God through art are still doing their thing wherever they can–and reconnecting others to God in the process. That’s the story of our guest today– an artist who is actively helping build that connective tissue between art, God and people–the spectacularly talented Morgan Harper Nichols. Morgan is a visual artist and poet who shares stories of grief, anger and solace who found her place of expression, surprisingly, on Instagram (where now nearly 2M followers are tuned in to her artistic offerings). Morgan’s experience in the Christian faith began with roots in a church that was planted by former American slaves and their descendants. It was committed to community and ensuring all voices were heard and was a guide for how she began sharing her work with the world. Morgan recognizes that the word “God” alone has so much baggage for a lot of people because it's been weaponized against them, and she wants to show those traumatized souls that you can actually feel eternal love and the presence of God, and it doesn’t have to be in a church, and it can look warm and welcoming and different than how it may have been presented in the past.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Brit Bennett’s “The Vanishing Half” Mar 11, 2022

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For February 2022, Jen and the club read Brit Bennett’s The Vanishing Half. Brit is a novelist and essayist that has been featured in The New York Times, The New Yorker, The Paris Review, and Jezebel. Her first novel, The Mothers, was a finalist for both the NBCC John Leonard First Novel Prize and the Robert W. Bingham Prize for Debut Fiction. And that brings us to this month’s book, The Vanishing Half. It was an instant New York Times bestseller and took the literary world by storm. It was named one of the top books of 2020, and no big deal, landed on the short list of Barack Obama’s favorite books. It is a story filled with self-growth, familial pain, generational divisions, and more. So join Jen this week as she chats all about The Vanishing Half and its impact with Brit Bennett.

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Bringing Prayer to Her People: Cole Arthur Riley’s Black Liturgies Mar 08, 2022

We’re back with more of our Faith Shakers series–with another person of faith who’s inhabiting something different than what we normally expect or see in faith spaces. When it comes to better understanding the church and how faith exists outside its walls, we must take into consideration voices that haven’t been largely represented in many church traditions. Communities of color were often not considered in the long history of liturgy in the church–and if you’re not familiar with what liturgy is, the technical definition is the “ritual or script for various forms of public worship in churches.” And those scripts weren’t scripts and rituals didn’t take into account the Black experience. That’s where our guest today comes in. Cole Arthur Riley is an author and the creator behind the uber popular Black Liturgies, which has blown up on Instagram over the last couple of years. Cole daily shares the poems and prayers she has created that invite Black dignity, lament, rage, justice, and rest. She and Jen talk about how hard it can be to go against the grain in spaces of faith, and the power of trading acceptance for inner stability. As Cole says, “when you have that inner stability of heart, it gives you courage to step away and say ‘I trust that I am going to find belonging elsewhere.’”

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[BONUS] Author of “Educated” Tara Westover: A Different Life Is Possible Mar 04, 2022

Happy unscheduled podcast goodness day to you all—we’ve got an amazing bonus episode dropping in just for you! This week we are delighted to welcome author Tara Westover to the show. Her book Educated is on the tip- top of our list for “must-read” books (and was on the New York Times Bestseller list for over 135 weeks in addition to being applauded and celebrated by the New Yorker, O, The Oprah Magazine, and the Obamas. Tara paints a riveting picture of how she grew up in a strict religious survivalist family in the mountains of Idaho, where she didn’t get a birth certificate until she was nine, had no medical records, and didn’t attend school. She tells us what it was like to live in that environment and what compelled her, at 17, to seek education as a means of escape. In 10 years time, Tara earned a PhD in intellectual history and political thought from Cambridge, despite no schooling up to that point. Tara shares how she’s dealing with the aftermath of her trauma and the impact her departure had on her family. As she celebrates the release of Educated in paperback this year, Tara and Jen have a lively discussion about faith, family and therapy––and the transformative power of education.

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Growing Up Evangelical and Gay with Jonathan Merritt Mar 01, 2022

It’s an origin story we’ve heard time and time again; a young person trying to figure out who they are as they grow up—in the context of their families, their religious beliefs, and their sexuality. And when all of those areas conflate, there can be fallout and damage—especially when they discover how and who they choose to love isn’t embraced by their faith or family structures. Award winning journalist and writer Jonathan Merritt navigated this particular firestorm in his own life by pursuing a Masters in Divinity and Theology and becoming a journalist who asked hard hitting questions at the intersections of faith and culture. But it would take years for him to sort out who he himself was in the midst of it. Growing up in the family of an evangelical mega-pastor, Jonathan was taught that in regards to gay people, Christians were called to “love the sinner, but hate the sin.” Jonathan didn’t see a lot of love with this practice, just a lot of hate. And it kept him from being open to who he himself might be—a gay man. It took an event that shattered his life into pieces and caused his private process to become very public; which ultimately sent him down the road to really pursue his identity and recalibrate his relationship to his family, his faith, and his purpose. For the first time, he talks about this process, and shares a moment where he and Jen’s paths crossed in a significant way that would also blow up a few sacred cows in Jen’s life and introduced her to an early version of cancel culture, circa 2016. Welcome all, to this first, powerful episode in our Faith Shakers series.

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Elephant in the Room Part 8: Planning for Life after Death ft. Abby Schneiderman Feb 22, 2022

As we wrap up our Elephant in the Room series, there will be no awkward topics left in our wake. And this week, we’re putting the nail in that coffin (so to speak) and we’re talking about–yes, you guessed it– Death. It’s really hard to think about how to plan for your death when you’re too busy living, not to mention that we don’t even want to really contemplate our demise, but alas, none of us will escape it. And we’ve all heard the horror stories of people who leave this earth with no will or last testament, families put under duress because they don’t know how to manage it all, or the provider of the family passes suddenly, and in an instant, there is no income, no insurance and perhaps unexpected expenses for hospital stays and/or funerals. As stark as it seems, it doesn’t have to be. Planning well for the life that you’ve built so that legacy is created for those who are left behind is something we all can bravely face. And to help us through it is someone who has taken this hard topic and turned it on its face so that it’s actually approachable and less scary to contemplate–we’ve got Abby Schneiderman, the founder of Everplans–to hold our hands through the process. Abby has the answers to the questions we need to take care of In Case You Get Hit By A Bus (also the title of her book). Her company Everplans focuses on providing resources to people as they think about what needs to be done to put the right things into place once we pass on. Some of it is just practical stuff we might not be thinking about—like a list of passwords so getting into accounts doesn’t take an act of congress, developing a way to keep track of medical forms, legal files, and so much more.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Christie Tate’s “Group” Feb 18, 2022

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For January 2022, Jen and the club read Christie Tate’s Group. Christie is a well-known writer and essayist that has written for amazing publications including The New York Times, The Washington Post, McSweeney’s, and more. Her first novel, Group, was published in 2020 and was named as one of Reese’s Book Club picks along with being a New York Times Bestseller. Group started many conversations about the power therapy offers and how finding your group allows healing and self-discovery. Join Jen and Christie this week as they talk about Christie’s writing process, the power of therapy, and why it’s so important to find the people that help you become whole again.

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Elephants in the Room Part 7: Getting Real About Divorce with Jen, Kristen & Jamie Feb 15, 2022

Get ready for some real and raw conversation with Jen and two of her most trusted friends about an experience they’ve all shared [which happens to be this week’s elephant in the room as well]. We’re talking about divorce. We’ve all heard the not-so-fun stat that at least half of all marriages in our country end up in divorce. No matter how it happens, who makes the choice, or however long the marriage lasted—it’s traumatizing. Like any elephant in the room, there’s a sense of failure, a sense of shame that keeps the pain and loneliness of a marriage that is on the rails shrouded in silence and solitude, and when the marriage finally crumbles––we’re not only grieving over own dreams and expectations dashed, but wondering how we’ll manage all our people’s disappointment and confusion over it all–including our children’s. And moving forward as a single person after being married has its own challenges as well. How do you tell people in the office your plus one has vacated the position? Who’s your emergency contact now? Do I keep the same last name? How do we even process it all–what we were taught about marriage to begin with, why we stayed when our boundaries were pushed to their limits, and who we can trust as we put our lives back together again? Jen shares more than she ever has before about her own divorce with her good friends Kristen Howerton and Jamie Wright who walked with her through every step of the process. They discuss the trajectory of their marriages, how they each grappled with choosing divorce, and what they are learning in “real time” in the aftermath. And here’s the good news–they all agree that as devastating as it can be, our friends can help us remember who we are in all of it; new dreams can be made, old dreams can change and hope and healing is possible.

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Elephants in the Room Part 6: Accepting The Reality of Mental Health Issues And Their Impact with Jamie Tworkowski Feb 08, 2022

In the tail-end of this series, we really acknowledge some of the bigger elephants in the room we all face each and every day. And this week’s elephant is a big one that likely we’ve all experienced first hand or with those we love. Mental health disorders have been around for as long as we’ve been walking the planet, but bringing them out of the dark has been a fairly recent phenomenon. Even as recently as 3 or 4 decades ago, depression and anxiety were rarely diagnosed as clinical disorders, and in previous generations, people with more profound issues that are now treatable were hidden away from society by their families or locked up in institutions. And while there have been huge strides made in the past or so regarding treatment of now commonly diagnosed mental health issues such as anxiety and depression, there is still reticence to recognize its impact and shame taken on by those who deal with it. The time has come to bring these issues out of the dark as we see the growing impact of unchecked mental illness and where it leads for those who don’t know where or how to get help. One of the people that’s leading the charge toward legitimizing mental health conditions in a bigger way is the founder of To Write Love On Her Arms, Jamie Tworkowski. Jamie founded TWLOHA after guiding a friend through her struggles with depression and suicidal thoughts. He saw the need for guidance in this space and created a world-renowned organization that offers resources and help to those who need it most. Jen and Jamie talk about the painful process of loving our people when they are hurting, how to give our own selves grace when we struggle, and why mental health needs to be treated as seriously as physical health. Content Warning: This episode addresses hard topics including anxiety, depression and suicidal ideation, so it may not be suitable for young listeners or individuals on the path to healing.

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Elephants in the Room Part 5: Undoing the Stigma of Menopause with Cheryl Bridges Johns Feb 01, 2022

Have you ever heard anyone say they are looking forward to menopause? A rare occurrence, to be sure, as our culture seems obsessed with keeping women “young” on all levels. 50 is the new 30, right? And while women inevitably age, the maturation of women has not classically been held in high esteem in our culture. So no wonder we view the onset of menopause with fear and trepidation; a stark reminder that we’re not what we once were. And as most elephants in the room, this natural transition into what should be a wise, peaceful and well-earned season of our lives is met with disdain; something to be hidden and ignored, or “fixed” with surgery, hormones, and a host of anti-aging products. For those of us who haven’t gotten there yet, we’re treated to the negative aspects played up historically by a patriarchal perspective giving us dread of hot flashes, mood swings, body changes, gray hair and overall loss of youth and vitality. Though this transition is unavoidable for all women, we’re here to look at what it all really means–to those who are currently going through it and to those who inevitably will. We hope you’ll be encouraged to find that there is much to lean into that gives us hope for a productive and meaningful second half of life. We’ve got a wonderfully educated and compassionate leader in this space–she’s not only been through it, but her work focuses on de-stigmatizing the whole topic for women and taking to task the historical negativity around a woman’s aging process. Cheryl Bridges Johns is an author, she's an academic lecturer, she's a leader. She advocates for women's full empowerment, care for all God's creation, and the renewal of the church to boot. She’s written a compelling book about navigating the second half of life as a woman–it’s called Seven Transforming Gifts of Menopause, which gets to the heart of this change by helping women find their voice and speak openly about their journey. Cheryl wants women to see their menopausal journey as a time in which we can become more and more of ourselves. She believes if society can embrace this natural occurrence, women can flourish in the second half of their lives, which can only lead to the flourishing of society as a whole. * * *

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Elephants in the Room Part 4: Facing the Reality of White Privilege and Systemic Racism with Reggie Dabbs & John Driver Jan 25, 2022

Elephants in the room are historically hard to acknowledge and easy to ignore. And though it seems like the conversation about racial divides in our country is getting more attention than it ever has, there are still some of us that are unable to see that there’s a problem in their own ranks. Sometimes, it’s not even that we don’t recognize it looking from the outside in–but a lack of being involved toward change or acknowledging the concept that the white community has historically had a giant leg up on thriving in our country today contributes to the acceptance of the status quo and to the systemic issues that still persist in our country today. White privilege is simply this: because of the color of your skin, there’s an added disadvantage or advantage as to how easy it will be to navigate our world today. Not whether you worked hard or went to college or did everything else right. Our intention for this episode (as with all our elephants in the room) is not to point fingers or cause shame. It’s simply to shine a light on a tough topic and ask ourselves the question as it applies to those of us who are white: where is it that we have privilege and can we have the humility to examine that deeply? We have some thoughtful leaders to guide us through this conversation–Reggie Dabbs and John Driver. These lifelong friends are the authors of the book, Not So Black and White, which details race in America from a Christian perspective. Reggie is one of the most sought-after public school speakers in the US and has been for more than 20 years, while John is a writer, minister, and former history teacher. Their book came out of a vulnerable conversation years into their friendship about what it is like for Reggie to live as a black man in America. Jen, Reggie and John get into why many of us, as part of faith communities, didn’t think racial divides were ours to contend with. We’ll talk about the unique things that black parents have to teach their kids that white parents don’t, and we’ll look at culturally wise responses to the challenges of racism in hopes that we can all make a difference in this fight for equality. * * * Thank you to our sponsors! BYJU | Get your first class free at byjus.com/forthelove.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie's “Americanah” Jan 21, 2022

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For December 2021, Jen and the club read Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s “Americanah.” Chimamanda is an acclaimed Nigerian writer that takes the experiences she has lived through and seen occur to guide her writing and share new thoughts and ideas with her readers. She published Americanah in 2013 and the novel became an immediate bestseller. It won the U.S. National Book Critics Circle Award and started conversations on race, microaggressions, immigration, and more. Join Jen and Chimamanda this week as they talk through Chimamanda’s writing process, the way race played a role in the creation of this book, and her hopes for all of her readers.

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Elephants in the Room Part 3 - Addressing Broken Sexual Behavior with Jay Stringer Jan 18, 2022

We’re back with another elephant in the room–one that likely has affected us all at one time or another either personally or within our circle of friends, family, associates. Society’s struggle with sexual brokenness–whether that’s pornagraphy use, paying for sex, or engaging in infidelity–is a real issue, and it impacts us in many ways, sometimes to the point of being devastating. But it’s time to bring this problem out of the dark and begin to look at the roots of where sexual brokenness begins. Our guest this week has made finding a way to wholeness in the aftermath of sexual brokenness his life’s work. Jay Stringer is a therapist, author and speaker who has done countless hours of research with over 3800 people to offer practical guidance rooted in clicnal evidence that is helping people discover their way to sexual wholeness. If you grew up in a conservative environment, you might remember being a part of the purity culture movement—a set of beliefs that Jay believes instills an unhealthy fear of sexuality among its followers. Jay and Jen discuss the harms there, and how this movement is still negatively impacting the sexual lives of the adults who were taught this set of beliefs in their teenage years. They also discuss a way forward from the tangle of shame sexual brokenness leaves in its wake and how there can be forgiveness and understanding for those who have engaged in it or have been hurt deeply by it. Jay believes that when we pay attention to our unwanted sexual desires and identify the unique reasons that drive them, the road to healing is revealed. This conversation helps us see light at the end of this brokenness, and those who are willing to unpack their stories can live a new story, one filled with hope and a future.

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Elephants in the Room Part 2: Responding to LGBTQ+ Friends & Loved Ones with Celeste Lecesne Jan 11, 2022

When it comes to addressing the elephant in the room, many of us really want to shy away and say “what elephant?” and whisk whatever the pesky and uncomfortable topic is under the rug. But, in the grand scheme of this life, addressing hard topics and working through difficult conversations is so important as we try to move forward and create a brighter and more accepting world for all people. One elephant we’ve tackled many times here on For the Love (as gently as possible–no elephants are ever harmed in the making of this show) relates to shining the light on the issues and struggles our LGBTQ+ friends & loved ones have faced. And while it is 2022, it remains unbelievable to us that we are still fighting for equality for our LBGTQ+ peers. Yet, in our culture, in our churches, that struggle is real. And what, as sensible, compassionate people and perhaps even as Christians, should our response to our LGBTQ+ counterparts be? Celeste Lecesne, one of the founders of The Trevor Project, is our thoughtful guide in this episode where we talk about that very thing. The Trevor Project started as a crisis hotline specifically for the queer community, offering them comfort and solace when they had nowhere else to turn. Celeste has fought for years to create a brighter tomorrow for LGBTQ+ youth, and we’re pleased to share this conversation with Jen to tell the story and shed some light on how we can all respond and understand the individual journeys of people in this community. Celeste uncovers some hidden parts of the LGBTQ+ history, tells us how young queer kids are coping today, and why acceptance and love can be a path forward for us all.

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Elephants in the Room Part 1: Grief on Your Terms with Sal & Im Jan 04, 2022

Hey community, it’s a new year and it’s time to get uncomfortable. We have all spent the last few weeks relaxing and indulging and prepping for what we hope is a good year. If your families or friend groups are anything like ours, maybe some hard topics popped up over the holidays. That aunt that can’t help talking about politics, or maybe passively aggressive grandmother’s racist comments caused a stir. Well instead of stuffing our faces full of another dinner roll and changing the topic, we’ve decided to embrace these topics head on—yes, we’re tackling those Elephants in the Room for a whole series. And for our first topic in the series we’re dealing with something that’s difficult when it’s happening and sometimes awkward for those around it–plus it affects every single one of us who has been on the planet for any significant amount of time. It’s grief. And you may say, “well grief is not something we should shy away from,” yet many of us do–or we don’t recognize that we are grieving, or we don’t know how to walk with or give space to someone who is grieving (or even carve out that care and space for ourselves). We have some good guides in this conversation; Sal and Im are the delightful hosts of The Good Mourning podcast, a show that talks about ways to work through grief and accept the changes grief brings into someone's life. Brought together by the early deaths of their mothers in close proximity, Sal and Im began to examine how they both looked at grief and came away with all kinds of real life examples of how we tend to defer grief and push it down, how we shame ourselves for grieving too much or too long, and how we try to structure our grief to play out in a linear way (when grief is just gonna do what it’s gonna do). They encourage us that it is possible to live fully while grieving, giving ourselves space and grace as individuals to let it run its needed course in our very own timing.

Series Description

Here at For the Love, we’re not afraid to take on topics that we might not all agree on. In that, we like to open our show for dialogue from experts in all fields, whether the subject matter is entertaining, educational or uncomfortable. Because we still live in a culture that pushes and hides some emotionally charged ideas and discussions for the sake of keeping people comfortable, we’re blowing that all up and forging ahead with the For the Love of the Elephant in the Room series. Topics ranging from death, menopause, racism, and sexual brokenness will be at the forefront along with expert guests/real life people who compassionately, thoughtfully and wisely guide us through every stigmatized piece of these situations. So, leave your ear plugs at home, and get ready to address the elephants in the room.

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Jen Speaks to Finding Life through a Year of Grief, Sorrow, and Unrelenting Joy Dec 28, 2021

Well, community, 2021 is about to close the curtain. So many of us had the highest of hopes after 2020. And for some, this year gave them exactly what they needed. For others, it was a year of sorrow and grief and hard days. But, here’s the thing, we all made it. We made it through the hard days and the tears and ups and downs. We lived. We learned. We grew closer to who we are meant to be in this life. And isn’t that something to celebrate? Join us this week as Jen divulges all that 2021 had in store for her. From guiding her kids through life after divorce, to rediscovering who she is and what dreams she has for herself. And here’s the thing. It wasn’t perfect, no year ever is. But, it allowed Jen and the rest of this community to find life. To find the knowledge that we deserve love and happiness and unrelenting joy. And after all of that, we have one wish for you going into 2022. We wish you happiness. Happiness that shines bright each day, and brighter when you find yourself at the bottom of the rope. So, as we say goodbye to this year, we wish you the happiest of New Years and cannot wait to serve you in 2022.

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Goodness Triumphs Through Good People: A Year-End Benediction from Bishop Michael Curry Dec 21, 2021

2021 is winding down. For some of us it flew by, for others it was the longest year of our lives. We might have experienced pure love, we might have learned new things and explored new places, and perhaps we grew closer to becoming the people we are meant to be. But some of us grieved. We lost loved ones, and dreams we once had. We dealt with suffering and sadness. But you know what we all did together? We made it. We lived. We found life and joy and hope and sadness and love. And in that, we have the power to spread that hope of “making it” to others who are walking alongside us in similarly complex journeys. As we link hands to face another year, we asked a close friend of the show and one of our most cherished leaders to bless us with a year-end benediction; Bishop Michael Curry. Bishop Curry beautifully wraps up the spirit of this tumultuous year and gives us something to hope for in the coming new year, while speaking a blessing of light and life over us all.

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Holiday Hilarity with Deck the Hallmark Dec 14, 2021

During the busyness of the holiday season, when does one find time for comfort and joy? Between planning all the parties, baking all the cookies, and wrapping all the gifts, has it been a minute since you’ve been able to enjoy the festivity of the season? Well, if you’re like us over here at For the Love, you might have to find the time to squeeze in a quick injection of the holiday spirit by sitting down for a Hallmark Holiday movie! In 90 tight minutes, you can cry over the heartwarming story of a firefighter and a vet who find nine kittens and try to find them homes for Christmas (and also find love in the process). Or maybe you need something a little more kooky like two wacky sisters who switch lives during Christmas only to find that maybe their lives aren’t so bad after all (yes, both real Hallmark Christmas movie plots!). Hallmark movies are a guilty pleasure for some, and a downright obsession for others (and if you can’t stand them, there’s something here for you too). Whatever category you’re in, you’ll love the return of our guests Bran, Dan & Panda from Deck the Hallmark! The boys are back and filled with important holiday advice like how to host the perfect holiday gathering for a Hallmark movie marathon and their recommended song list to make that gathering 5 star quality! Additionally, the trio and Jen storyboard the plot for a Hallmark Christmas movie loosely based on Jen’s summer trip to Maine, except set during Christmas with Candace Cameron Bure playing Jen and a lot of wild story embellishments involving lobsters and crusty sailors (we’re really hoping the Hallmark people are listening so we can get this one made).

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[BONUS] Vanessa Lachey’s “Life from Scratch” Dec 10, 2021

It is the season of giving, friends, and what better gift could you get from us than a super special bonus episode of your favorite show? This cozy holiday bonus episode features TV host, model and actress, Vanessa Lachey! Vanessa just brought her first book to the world; Life From Scratch: Family Traditions That Start With You, and it’s chock full of fun and practical tips that we’re talking about on the show to make each season and the moments in them special and memorable. Jen and Vanessa discuss why it’s important (and fun!) to create and carry on traditions each year, why those traditions help strengthen our connections to the people we love, and how to give your girlfriends gifts they actually want.

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Singing in the Holidays with Trisha Yearwood Dec 07, 2021

Jingle those sleigh bells and break out the eggnog--Trisha Yearwood has arrived at the For the Love Podcast for our Comfort and Joy series!! If you’ve been here for any amount of time, you know that Jen Hatmaker is Trisha’s #1 fan. Women ruled the day for country music in the 90’s, and Trisha was among the queens. If you were coming of age in that era like Jen did (and even if you didn’t) it was hard to miss the great ladies of 90’s country (Shania, Martina, Wynonna, and more.) who exemplified the important seasons of our lives (falling in love, raising kids, finding our voices) and sang songs that were anthems of that decade. Trisha’s music lives on, and she has been bringing another facet of herself to the world via The Food Network with her own show about southern cooking. And what brings more comfort and joy than music and food? Not much! Trisha and Jen are talking about it all today: Trisha’s journey to country music fame, cooking and hosting on The Food Network (and a peek at her new cookbook!), and singing Christmas songs with her favorite people (including her hubby Garth Brooks).

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] David Sedaris’s “The Best of Me” Dec 03, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For November 2021, Jen and the club read David Sedaris’s “The Best of Me.” When it comes to satire and witty personal narratives, no one does it better than David, so expect this discussion to be full of the same as well. His book, “The Best of Me” is a collection of essays detailing his life through adolescence and adulthood. Not only is it riddled with ridiculous anecdotes and hilarious stories, it also gives us a tender look at some of the harder parts of life many of us deal with. Jen and David discuss how it can be so life-giving to share our journeys (no matter how outrageous) with candor and authenticity--and if we can laugh at ourselves along the way, then all the better.

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Stress Free Holiday Hosting with Abby Turner Nov 30, 2021

Happy Holidays, friends! Welcome to the most magical time of year. It’s filled with fairy lights and Christmas cookies and good food and friends. It’s the epitome of comfort and joy—and that’s why we are thrilled to be kicking off our 2021 holiday series, For the Love of Comfort & Joy with you today. We have it all in this series, from cookbooks to Hallmark movies. We’re kicking it all off this week with conversation with a self taught expert in hosting and learning how to serve others well with Abby Turner. Abby wrote The Living Table where she offers readers and home cooks simple recipes that allow for more time spent with their people. And isn’t that what we are all looking for during the busy holiday season? Jen and Abby rediscover what the table actually means to a family, how to find God wherever you are this season, and why it’s so important to find time to love our people well.

SERIES Description

Welcome to the 2021 holiday season! As we come to the end of the year, we wanted to offer you two things that are vital to our peace this season: comfort and joy. That’s why we are thrilled to bring you For the Love of Comfort and Joy. This series has it all. From learning how to serve and host others so they feel loved, to finding the hilarity in the Hallmark moments of life, we want to give you something to hold onto during the chaotic season of holiday parties, family arguments about politics and last minute shopping.. Some guests will make you laugh until you cry, while others will just make you cry. It’s a mixed bag of goodies, just like the presents under the tree—and we can’t imagine a better way to close out the year. So grab your peppermint mocha and pop on your Santa hat as we enter into the most wonderful time of year!

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YOUR Body Keeps the Score: Unwinding Trauma with Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk Nov 23, 2021

As we come to a close on our For the Love of You series, we wanted to take some time to reflect on all that we have learned. We saw how food impacts our lives in more ways than just providing calories. We learned how self-care exists in all facets of life, from mental health and therapy to leaning on others during your journey to motherhood. And to wrap it all up, we wanted to take a look at what it means to be embodied and how to work with our bodies to overcome trauma and find peace and healing. These are some deep waters to tread through, and to help us with it all, we are thrilled to welcome Dr. Bessel Van Der Kolk to the conversation.. Dr. Van Der Kolk is a psychiatrist, author, researcher and author of the book The Body Keeps The Score. Dr. Van Der Kolk has spent most of his career researching the causes of post traumatic stress, and is continuing to come away with groundbreaking discoveries about the power of our bodies to protect and shield us. But sometimes that good function of the body can thwart us if we’ve been hurt or abused—walling us off from being able to fully experience life to the fullest. Dr. Van Der Kolk brings us to the intersection of embodiment, mental well-being, and neuroscience and examines how we can understand our bodies’ response to trauma so we can embrace our healing.

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YOU Restored: Healing from Trauma For Everyone with Jimanekia Eborn Nov 16, 2021

When it comes to healing, the path is not linear. Whether you are are a survivor of sexual assault or have experienced trauma in your life, you are worthy to pursue wholeness and healing. It can be a hard road to find the right community to heal with, especially if you identify as part of a marginalized community. Prevalently, therapy and therapeutic services cater largely to one group, evidenced by the fact that approximately 86% of psychologists are white, and less than 2% of American Psychological Association members are African American, and for people in the LGBTQ+ community, the offerings are similarly limited. Our guest for this episode in the For the Love of You series believes that healing and help for trauma and abuse is for everyone. Jimanekia Eborn is a queer trauma media consultant, comprehensive sex educator, and a sexual assault and trauma expert. Her work lands at the intersection of healing and community for marginalized folks. Not only that, Jimanekia is a survivor herself, and talks about her experience with vulnerability and honesty, creating a welcoming and comforting atmosphere for her clients. Jen and Jimanekia talk through the boundaries that exist for marginalized communities as they seek out mental health care, how to help those closest to you after traumatic experiences, and why caring for ourselves allows us to care for others better.

Content Warning: A quick note for you listeners. This episode touches on sexual assault and sexual trauma, so it may not be suitable for young audiences or survivors on the path to healing.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Lucy Foley’s “The Guest List” Nov 12, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For October 2021, Jen and the club read Lucy Foley’s The Guest List. Lucy Foley is a former fiction editor who used her passion for literature to become a master of who-dunnit mystery books. Her first book, The Book of Lost and Found, cemented her place as a modern mystery writer and since then there has been no turning back. The Invitation and The Hunting Party brewed up enough chatter for us to read The Guest List as this month’s book club choice. The classic elements and mysterious island create the perfect setting for readers to crack the case, but let’s be honest, most of us didn’t see the ending coming. So join us as Jen and Lucy chat about what it’s like to create complex characters, how world events morph into plot points, and why the classic mystery will always hold a special place in reader’s hearts.

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Joyful Eating for YOU and Those YOU Love with Antoni Porowski Nov 09, 2021

The For the Love of You series, is offering us so much when it comes to embracing self-care routines and finding new ways to love and appreciate all our bodies do for us on a daily basis. And guess what wonderful element of self-care we are tackling this week? FOOD. Not only does it nourish us and keep us functioning, but it can create community, connection, and love in our world. Our relationship with food is key in enabling us to find joy in caring for our bodies, and in turn allow us to love those around us better. We couldn’t have a better guide to walk us through all the ways food impacts our self-care and care of others than Queer Eye’s Antoni Porowski! Antoni is the food expert of this generation’s Queer Eye and has just authored a new book Antoni: Let’s Do Dinner as he teaches people around the country how to love food and use it as a tool to improve their lives, not just as a way to stay alive. Jen and Antoni also take a look back at his journey into the Fab Five, while discussing his personal relationship and understanding of food, and how food can be used as a point of better living, bonding and caring for others.

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Jen's Favorite Things - 5th Annual Holiday Gift Guide Nov 05, 2021

Jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way to the 2021 gift guide! This is the EARLIEST we have ever had the gift guide ready for you and that’s a good thing because... shipping in 2021. Am I right? We’re helping you get all your favorite people the most amazing gifts this holiday season. A personal note from Jen: This is the 5th year I've curated my favorite things as a wonderful shopping list for you! (Psst... We’ve taken notes so you don’t have to! Head over to jenhatmaker.com for a one-stop-shop of all the companies, products, and offers mentioned on the show.) There are two non-negotiables that I have when creating this guide. First, I really love these products. Second, I feature brands I love that also give back, so we can do the most good with the dollars we're already going to spend (and PS: so many of these companies are women-owned!). My super-cool daughter, Sydney, joined me as co-host this year. Cozy up with some tea (or wine) to watch us gush over incredible companies and amazing products. You’ll see gifts for sisters, brothers, moms, dads, uncles, and of course, yourself. As always, each brand has a special offer just for you — your code is always FORTHELOVE for savings — so you can stock up on great gifts and also keep your wallet. Now, get ready for Christmas shopping!

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YOU are More Than Beauty with Lexie & Lindsay Kite Nov 02, 2021

We’re keeping the good vibes about body positivity going this week, drafting off our amazing episode with Dr. Hillary McBride last week about embodiment and moving into a conversation that asks us to go deeper with questions like: How do you feel about your body? How are you describing your body? The answers tell us whether we’re looking at our bodies as an outsider, or if we’ve been hiding our bodies because of long held body shame and self-objectification. And that’s what this For the Love You series is all about--to show each of us the power that lives within us, and in this particular episode, we’re encouraging all women to unwind themselves from the cultural and self made prison we’ve made of our bodies, so that we can take the steps to, as our guests so poignantly put it: “treat our bodies as an instrument for our use, for our experience, for our pleasure and joy--and not as an ornament for everybody else.” This conversation with authors Lexie and Lindsay Kite brings some new wrinkles (yes, we’re embracing that word!) to the way we think about body shame, how deeply ingrained it is from sources we might not even imagine (mothers, grandmothers, friends) and how money is the bottom line as to why we’re errantly taught to objectify ourselves so that we’ll buy into the solutions, ideas, and products that will fix our many flaws. These sisters are the authors of the book, More than a Body, and are changing the game when it comes to self-love for women who have been inundated with harmful messages about what beauty is all about.

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The Power Within YOU with Latham Thomas Oct 26, 2021

Continuing in our For the Love of You series we are taking a look at all the ways that we care for ourselves. And this isn’t just about spa days, pedicures, and me-time (although, we are fans of those things too). We’re doing a deep dive into some soul-care, in addition to more conventional looks at mind care and body care. And this week’s episode addresses a really specific season of self-care for women as they journey into motherhood. Whether it’s your first or 5th time going through pregnancy, you know (or will find out) it is quite the time for our brains and our bodies. A swirl of hormones, and a resetting of priorities, in addition to the physical and spiritual aspects of pregnancy and birth. Whether you’ve experienced pregnancy or not, we’ll all benefit from leaning into this beautiful well of wisdom that we have through Latham Thomas, as she guides us through to finding the power we have within to heal and thrive. Latham is the the founder of Mama Glow, a birth doula, and entrepreneur focused on bridging the gap between optimal wellness and spiritual growth. Her message to future moms and women is this: your power already lives inside of you, and it’s your job to unleash it into the world.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Brene Brown’s “Daring Greatly” ft. Kristen Howerton Oct 22, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For September 2021, Jen and the club read Brene’ Brown’s Daring Greatly. Most of us know and love Brene and all her work, but just in case you’re new to her, here’s the rundown. Brene is a research professor at the University of Houston where she holds the Huffington Foundation Endowed Chair. She is also a visiting professor in management at The University of Texas at Austin McCombs School of Business. She has spent years and years and years studying courage, vulnerability, shame, and empathy. So much of our community has been informed by Brene’s work, and we’re taking this month’s book club spot to dissect Daring Greatly with an actual therapist to discuss key points and concepts of the book that we can all apply to our lives. We are thrilled to welcome a friend to Jen and our podcast community, therapist Kristen Howerton to discuss vulnerability and Brene’s book, Daring Greatly. Kristen and Jen chat about what it’s like to be vulnerable, how to identify toxic relationships, and why it’s so important to care for ourselves first. Because we all know that it’s impossible to pour from an empty cup, but in the busyness of life, we often forget that our hearts and minds need care too.

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Your Body is YOU with Dr. Hillary McBride Oct 19, 2021

This series, For the Love of You, is allowing us to open a door to ourselves, encouraging us to show ourselves kindness and truly embrace how we can care for ourselves In a world that has told us, specifically women, that we should put ourselves last. And when it comes to our bodies, we’ve had a host of misinformation that tells us that our bodies are to be restricted and that we should disconnect from what our bodies need, because our needs will be at cross purposes with what our culture wants.

Dr. Hillary McBride is here to debunk all that mess and wants us to lovingly reunite with our bodies because our bodies are not just a hindrance that gets in the way of us being loved. She emphasizes the integral connection between our bodies and who we are--and that we should show our total person respect, because at the end of the day--our bodies are keeping us alive. Our bodies are where pleasure, joy, connection, experiences of fulfillment, and desire happens. The truth is, the body is always working for our good--and she tells us all the ways it is--even the ways we might *feel*our body is betraying us. Hillary is one of our best people--she’s been on the podcast multiple times and has spoken into so many moments for us over the last few years--dipping in right when we needed her. A psychologist and researcher, her work lands at the intersection of spirituality and mental health, trauma, body image and eating disorders, embodiment, and feminist psychology. And to top it off, Hillary is also inspiring generations of women to look at their bodies as She, not just the “thing” that carries their brain around each day. Hillary uncovers the truth that we haven’t been supported to have a dialogue with ourselves that is compassionate and that so often our bodies are seen as “a problem” or a root for our distrust. She gently reminds us: our various physiological responses to life are NOT proof that our bodies are bad and can't be trusted--it’s really our bodies just saying, "Please let me care for you. Please trust me.”

Content warning: This episode talks about hard topics including eating disorders and sex. Listener discretion is advised, content may not be suitable for young audiences.

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YOU and Food with Danielle Walker Oct 12, 2021

Hey listener—we’re glad you’re here. Because you listen to this show, we’re gonna take a guess that this podcast might be a little respite for you from the busy-ness of life. A place to find community and shared experiences. Some much needed YOU time. So, because we care about you, we at For the Love want to promote that time and take it to the next level with some ideas and thoughts about how to take better care of YOU (and not just with the time you steal away while driving or cleaning while listening to this show). So to get you started on some much needed ways to take care of you, we’re proud to be kicking off a brand new series, For the Love of YOU. And the first thing we’re looking at is how food factors into how we take care of ourselves. Not diets, not regimens, not meal planning--but simply a call to take a closer look at what we put into our bodies and how it impacts each of us uniquely. Danielle Walker, the wonderful author and self trained chef who has graced the ears of our listeners in our first FTL of Food series, has first hand experience with living in a body that can be vulnerable to certain kinds of foods and the ingredients in them. After being diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis, Danielle faced confusion and wildly varying advice about how to treat the problem, but by eventually removing foods and adding others to see where the issues were, she was able to see her body begin to heal. Her example (though unique to her—every body is different) has impacted thousands of people who’ve struggled with their own conditions to take the time to find out how certain foods impact their wellness. And in case you think that this is a lesson in deprivation or sad, flavorless diets, Danielle has done the good work of experimenting with recipes that remove some of the problem ingredients for many people while retaining the flavors and satisfaction we get from eating the things we like.

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Future Star of Broadway: The Lion King’s Vince Ermita Oct 05, 2021

When it comes to talking about the future and the bright stars we see ahead, that’s something we are always going to approve of here at For the Love. And we knew that in order to wrap-up our For the Love of Broadway series, we needed to talk to one of the up and coming stars of the stage. So as we get ready to close the curtains on this series, you’ll love hearing from the delightful Vince Ermita. Vince is just 11 years old and made his Broadway debut as Young Simba in The Lion King. I mean, can you imagine the thrill of reaching such a pinnacle role at just 11 years old?. Vince gives us an inside look as he balances being a nearly teenager, school and a demanding theater job, the joys and pains of theater costumes, and what he hopes his future looks like.

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The Lion King’s Brandon McCall on Fulfilling a Life-Long Dream Sep 28, 2021

Description

When it comes to living out life-long dreams, that’s always a goal we support here at For the Love. And do you know what we love just as much as seeing someone succeed? Broadway! We’re back with another week of the For the Love of Broadway series just as the whole country is celebrating the return of Broadway’s best. This week we take another peek behind the curtain to find out what it’s like to go through audition after audition, wondering if you’ll ever “make it there,” and then have it all end up with nabbing the role you’d always dreamed of as a child. That scenario happened to Brandon McCall, aka, Simba in The Lion King, and his story just makes our hearts full as to what is possible if we run toward a dream. Brandon takes Jen behind the scenes and shows us what it’s like to audition for Disney, what it looks like to be “show ready” for audition after audition, and finally the thrill of playing a role he’s dreamed of since watching his first Broadway show as a kid. Brandon shows us that dreams really can come true--right under the neon lights of Broadway.

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Hamilton’s Christopher Jackson on Knowing Who You Are—On and Off Broadway Sep 21, 2021

Pull your tickets out and silence your cell phones as we dive into another episode in our For the Love of Broadway series! As live theater comes back into all of our lives, we’re going straight to the heart and soul behind it. The actors, the writers, the composers—all work together to put these fantastic and magical shows out day in and day out, and we want to know what inspires them to do it. Maybe it’s always been their dream to hit the big stage, maybe it’s something they stumbled upon. Or perhaps, like our guest today, singing became a passion when he was charged with singing at the family business. As a young boy, Christopher Jackson began performing at services for his family’s funeral home business. And while that’s not the most jolly kick-off to his career, it gave him the confidence and courage to head to New York at 17 and star on Broadway by 22. Oh and also—no big deal—he’s been in some small productions like The Lion King, In The Heights and Hamilton. This week, Jen and Christopher talk about that dream that starts as a tiny seed and carries you to a destination you could have never imagined, those magical and life changing moments (like being a black man playing President George Washington performing in The White House for the first black president, Barack Obama) and what it means to widen your world to other mediums, all while trying to stay grounded outside of the roles being played to fully embrace your identity apart from the lights of Broadway.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Elizabeth Acevedo’s “Clap When You Land” Sep 17, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For August 2021, Jen and the club read Elizabeth Acevedo’s Clap When You Land. Elizabeth Acevedo is an internationally known New York Times bestselling author. Her writing is inspired by her Afro-Dominican roots, along with her upbringing in New York City as the daughter of Dominican immigrants. She is formally trained in performing arts, but later received her MFA in creative writing. And here's the thing, she writes novels in prose. Her book Clap When You Land shows readers that relationships are anything but easy. Familial relationships, relationships to the landscape, the relationship you have with yourself. This book dives deep into what it means to know and be known, and how our circumstances directly impact that. Jen and Elizabeth chat about what it’s like to write a book in prose, how young people teach adults, and why it’s so important to develop strong connections with the women in your life.

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The Double Name Witches, ft. Wicked’s Mary Kate Morrissey and Ginna Claire Mason Sep 14, 2021

This week we are rolling back the curtains and kicking off a brand new series, For the Love of Broadway...so dim the lights and get ready for the absolute blast we are going to have here! To kick off this series we are welcoming two of Broadway’s best—Mary Kate Morrissey and Ginna Claire Mason, aka, Elphaba and Glinda. You know, the witches from Wicked? Yeah, those ones. Mary Kate and Ginna Claire, affectionately referred to as MK and GC, are going to take us through their journeys to the big stage and bright lights. We also get to learn all about the business, Double Name Witches, they started last year teaching the next generation of performers and how that work has enhanced their own abilities on stage and off. But more than that, we get to learn about the connection these real-life besties share and how that has saved them both many times. Jen, MK, and GC chat about the anxiety of live performance, why live theater is more important now than ever before, and how we can all get ready to experience our first show again after the Great Pause.

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Antoni Porowski [BONUS] “Antoni: Let’s Do Dinner” Cookbook Chat Sep 10, 2021

Happy unscheduled podcast goodness day to you all—we’ve got a super fun bonus episode for you! This week we are welcoming the one and only Antoni Porowski to the show. You know and love him from the delightfully heartwarming Netflix show, Queer Eye, where he works as the food and wine expert, teaching people the power of caring for all bodies—inside and out. Not one to just have a day job, Antoni is also in the throes of releasing his most recent cookbook, Antoni: Let’s Do Dinner. This book features easy peasy recipes that will leave you feeling satisfied and ready to take on each day. Jen and Antoni chat about their favorite kitchen tools, the time it takes to put recipes together, and why sharing food is a form of self love for yourself and others.

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Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith Sep 07, 2021

It’s so hard but so true: growth often comes from the most painful parts of life. An untreatable diagnosis, a painful divorce, the loss of savings that took a lifetime to build—when the script we write for ourselves is ripped apart by the unthinkable, we’re forced to rethink everything, like who we are, what we value, and where we spend our time. Moving the boulders of our identity requires us to push ourselves in ways we never asked for. And as frustrating as it can be, the pushing brings us closer to the person we’re meant to be—that’s what our guest, poet Maggie Smith, reminds us. Jen reveals how she unexpectedly found and fell in love with Maggie’s work (spoiler alert: it’s Shauna Niequist’s fault!). Maggie and Jen talk about what it was like for each of them to weather the loss that comes from divorce, and the fresh hope weaving its way through their rebuilding. Maggie reveals that more than ever, she feels more confident than ever to take on whatever life throws at her, even when her script is flipped.

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Fighting Fear of Failure and Taking the Leap with Jamie Kern Lima Aug 31, 2021

Taking a leap in the face of uncertainty is scary. It’s hard to envision a life in which you are living your dream, especially if your current reality is not living up to your expectations. But, what if it all works out? What if everything you are dreaming of comes to fruition and you get the life you want? Wouldn’t that be worth the leap? That’s just another facet of flipping the script of our lives and we are so inspired by women across the world that take that leap into the unknown with the hope that things are better on the other side. This week, we are talking to one of those “leapers” who started a cosmetics company in her living room, who kept getting told “no” by the big beauty brands of the world, and persevered despite personal and professional rejection to build a multi-billion dollar cosmetics company with a heart. Jamie Kern Lima is the founder of the internationally known beauty brand, IT Cosmetics. As Jamie struggled to believe in herself enough to keep her dream alive--even after she was told she didn’t have the “look” to be selling cosmetics--she decided to trust her gut enough to let it guide her through the sea of rejections she received while trying to grow her business. And through this journey, she also realized that the beauty industry needed to change--and that no one should be showing women an unrealistic, unattainable “look” and making them feel less than if they didn’t fit the mold. Jamie would come out winning by standing her ground to show “real women” (including herself) of all shapes, sizes, skin types and colors as part of her brand, and her determination to make every woman feel beautiful and to trust themselves to know what is best for their lives is her mission and message to this very day.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Gabrielle Hamilton’s “Blood, Bones & Butter” Aug 27, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For July 2021, Jen and the club read Gabrielle Hamilton’s Blood, Bones & Butter. Gabrielle Hamilton is a chef, author, and restaurant owner based in New York. Her roots in food and cooking were heavily influenced by her mother’s French origins, and created a unique relationship between Gabrielle and food. She was used to foraging and using everything from their garden, never letting anything go to waste. This understanding of food translated into a career as Gabrielle made her way into professional kitchens. She is a James Beard award winner, the winner of the 2018 Outstanding Chef award, and whipped her way right into the literary space. Jen and Gabrielle dive into the impact food has in relationships, the troubles found during parenting, and what comes next for her restaurant after a forced shut down.

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Renovating Lives and Homes with HGTV’s Mina Hawk Aug 24, 2021

Fresh starts, new beginnings, and renovations. As we continue to dive into all the ways we can “flip the script” in our lives, we’re taking on one that is pretty literal—refreshing and renovating homes. Whether it’s something small like shuffling the furniture around in our living room to give a new perspective, or adding a new color of paint to our walls, we can all attest to how good it feels to freshen a space. Taking it to the next level—renovating a space—by maybe taking a room or a whole house to the studs and building something new can be daunting, but the rewards can be more than just the joy of something different, and can translate to practical things like more functional space, modernization, and even adding more value to your home. Our guest this week knows a thing or two about building something beautiful and new to refresh and restore a living space—we have none other than HGTV’s Mina Hawk from the show Good Bones. Mina decided to flip the script in her own life, and with no construction experience, taught herself the craft and embarked on the task of flipping homes that were once considered lost causes and turning them into places for their owners to live and grow for years to come. Mina continues to forge into new areas in —writing her very children’s book Built Together. This story gives kids a fresh look at what family actually means—showing readers that families are just as different as homes. Jen and Mina are diving into all of this and more and they talk about what home and community actually mean, and why creating close familial and neighborly bonds is so important.

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Everything’s A Gift: Steering Our Lives Through Light & Through Darkness with Amy Grant Aug 17, 2021

Continuing on in our Flip the Script series, we look at not only the things that happen “to us,” but the things that happen “by us.” Our guest this week epitomizes a life that includes those things we weren’t expecting that alter our course (for her, it was a heart defect diagnosis) and those things that are very intentional, like new efforts to find balance and taking responsibility for steering our own lives. Singer/songwriter Amy Grant is no stranger to our show, or to our community. She’s that friend so many of us have walked with via her music, through her writing, through just the way she negotiates the world in a way that is present, centered and grateful. Amy has walked through her share of flipped scripts—including the end of her first marriage (she and Jen share their common experiences there), the aging of her parents and the final lessons they taught her, and most recently, the heart surgery she would have never expected to happen—in 2020 no less—right in the heart of the COVID-19 pandemic. Amy and Jen talk about what happens during seasons of loss and upheaval and how they listen to their bodies, their hearts and trusted friends’ voices to empower themselves to steer out of the storm. In it all, Amy believes that “the next opportunity, the next enlightenment, the next ‘everything’ for all of us is within reach.”

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Real Change Can Begin with a Conversation ft. Malynda Hale Aug 10, 2021

When it comes to learning to dream again after a big change, it can be hard to think outside the bounds of where we have always lived. It’s hard to imagine a world that looks different from the one we are so accustomed to. So, when it comes the time to start thinking big and looking outside the box we place ourselves in, where do we start? Oftentimes, flipping the script happens internally, and then branches out from there. This week we will be looking at the ways in which faith guides us through life, and how in many cases, growing in your own faith is the pathway to connecting with others. Malynda Hale is an author, singer, and podcast host that lives at the intersection of faith, justice, and inclusion. She believes that everything starts with a conversation—whether that’s diving into what defunding the police actually means, or looking at the ways we are called to include all people, not just those that look like us. She focuses on dismantling the negative perceptions toward black people held by many in America, and how her work is dedicated towards creating a more welcoming and safe world for everyone. Jen and Malynda will dive into Malynda’s faith journey, her calling to teach and encourage others, and why it’s so important to stand up for what and who you believe in.

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I Survived My World Turning Upside Down and You Can Too: Jen Flips The Script Aug 03, 2021

Kicking off our Flipping the Script series is none other than our venerable host, Jen herself. In this solo episode, Jen transparently talks about the changes in her life in the last year--the days she thought she wouldn’t survive, and the days where she could finally see hope dancing around the corner. Jen walks us through key times throughout all of her life when she flipped the script of her existence in several areas; spiritually, as a woman, and in her view of her body. She shares how we all are inclined to resist change and how easy it is to adhere to the script that is handed to us, and how we’ll even create our own script of lies to ourselves to stay and be accepted within certain structures. In the end, Jen acknowledges that flipping the script can create a disturbance around us--within our families, within our friend groups--but that listening to yourself and believing that your instincts and hearts are good are worth the upheaval, and becoming unstuck will lead to the most rewarding days ahead.

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Following Your Heart for Meaningful Change with Jennifer Garner Jul 27, 2021

We’re back with more of the For the Love of Transitions series which is showing us the many ways we can move through life after a huge shift has occurred—whether it was chosen or thrust upon us. We have learned what it’s like to live through tragedy, we have seen what steps we must take to create a system of equity, and this week, we are talking through what it’s like to choose a transition from the world of acting to the world of activism. Jennifer Garner--you know her, you love her--she’s here telling us how she navigates life as a mom, an entrepreneur, and an actress--and the deliberate transitions she’s made to help make her world and others’ a better place. So many of us have followed Jen's career through TV & film, but she takes us back to the early days when she fell in love with theater, doing auditions in New York while she slept on the floor of a friend’s home who offered a place to lay her head. We also find out that her first job was working with Melissa Gilbert (Laura Ingalls of Little House on the Prairie fame) and how that eventually led to working with J.J. Abrams in Felicity, who then cast her in her breakout role as the star of Alias. The two Jens discuss everything from what it’s like to raise kids as they transition from littles to bigs and what eventually drove Jen’s pursuits outside of Hollywood to co-found Once Upon a Farm and become involved with Save the Children.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Emma Straub’s “All Adults Here” Jul 23, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For June 2021, Jen and the club read Emma Straub's All Adults Here. Emma is a New York Times bestselling author of three additional novels, including The Vacationers, Modern Lovers, and Laura Lamont’s Life in Pictures. Her books have been published in 20 countries, with All Adults Here recently being picked up by Apple for TV development. While she writes and creates worlds and characters for readers, she and her husband also run an independent bookstore in Brooklyn, NY, called Books Are Magic. As her literary star continues to rise, Emma is creating thoughtful and insightful conversations with her characters. All Adults Here addresses big topics like sexuality, gender, parenting, and family dynamics through the years. Jen and Emma dive into all things All Adults Here and discuss why this character led novel creates space to be open, honest, and vulnerable no matter what stage in life you are in.

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Owning and Knowing Your Finances with the “Budgetnista” - Tiffany Aliche Jul 20, 2021

As we continue in our For the Love of Transitions series, we’re tackling one of the most stressful transitions to face in life--a change to our financial situation. Perhaps a job change/loss reduced your income unexpectedly, or maybe a medical situation came out of the blue and drained your bank account, or maybe you went through a divorce and are down one income, and/or never had to be in charge of your own finances as an adult. Tiffany Aliche, aka, The Budgetnista has some thoughts for you, the most important one being; you can Get Good with Money (also the name of her New York Times bestselling book). Even though Tiffany grew up with a dad who was a CFO/accountant who educated her about finances, she experienced her own financial struggles and found herself moving back home at the age of 30. Having gone from owning her own home and making good money to having literally nothing took its toll on Tiffany’s psyche, but she was determined to not let shame win, and building her way back from the bottom is what has informed her life’s work--primarily to empower women to know and own their own financial well being. She and Jen candidly talk about their rock bottom financial moments and share their experiences of feeling powerless dealing with finances to getting help, getting educated and taking ownership of their financial lives and futures.

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Understanding a Transgender Person with Stephanie Byers Jul 13, 2021

When it comes to making a big transition in life, we are often held back by fear. Fear of judgment, fear of backlash, fear of losing those close to us. But, oftentimes, it takes a big transition to lead us toward a more fully authentic life. For some of us, on the surface, it’s easier to “be who we are” authentically—especially if we identify as straight cis-gender individuals. But for our friends in the trans community, taking the step to become who they really are has traditionally been fraught with roadblocks. For those who haven’t experienced this wall between us and our true selves, there can be a limited understanding of what a transgender person experiences and what defines them—and surprise—it’s different for each and every one. So this week, we’ve got one person’s story that might give us some insight into others we may know who are running into that wall that keeps them from truly knowing the joy of stepping fully into themselves. Stephanie Byers grew up in a time where there weren’t even words in our vernacular that she could cling to that could give her some sort of path to figure out her true identity. As the world evolved and other brave souls like Stephanie began to emerge, the community finally had a name—transgender. Stephanie walks us through the stages of her discovery of herself and how she finally decided to fully enter into her true self at the age of 51 and the response from her family and community. She also leads us through the journey that led her to become a force for change for equal rights for all different kinds of people by becoming Kansas’ first openly-trans state representative. Jen and Stephanie concur that it can be difficult to see from the perspective of a person whose very make-up is so different from our own, and that we may struggle to understand them fully, but it should never be a struggle to be kind in that process.

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Learning to Love The Image in the Mirror with Jess Connolly Jul 06, 2021

In our For the Love of Transitions series, we’ve been looking at and evaluating the chosen and unchosen changes so many of us experience in the various seasons of our lives. In the category of chosen changes, we have found that so many women would welcome one in their lives, and it’s to develop a positive view of our bodies. Think back to the first time you had negative perceptions of your body. Were you 13 and getting ready for the homecoming dance? Maybe you were younger—9 years old at a pool party and realizing that your body looked different from your friends—and different then didn’t seem good or unique—different always equaled bad. Pile on top of those early perceptions the barrage of images presented to us by the beauty industry who constantly hammers home the quest for perfection—and reminding us that our bodies aren’t it. We’ve become so entrenched in the values of a world that seems to celebrate the way a person looks over who the person is. With a whopping 98% of women saying they wish they could “fix” something about their body, we can’t have enough positive body conversations to turn the tide on the lies we’ve been fed and that we tell ourselves. And to bring that conversation to our podcast community this week is Jess Connolly, who is a life coach, a Bible teacher and author whose new book is called Breaking Free from Body Shame. Jess and Jen dig into the origins of our body negativity, talk about ways we can each be nicer to our own bodies, and why it’s important to resist the “perfection persona.”

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Everything Great is Birthed from Discomfort with Emmanuel Acho Jun 29, 2021

When it comes to changing unhealthy dialogues and digging up errant roots that have been allowed to grow deep—many of us tend to ignore the discomfort and carry on with our days. However, when we live in denial, inequity and ignorance cannot be challenged, and greatness will not be achieved. During our For the Love of Transitions series, we’re learning how to embrace change. We’re sharing the stories of people who have lived through or implemented drastic changes in their lives and came out on the other side stronger and better than before. Some transitions are extremely broad in their scope and may seem nearly impossible—and one issue that’s come to the top of our agendas over the last year is; how do our communities and our country get to a place where we are moving toward an attitude of racial sensitivity? Is it possible that we agree more on what needs to happen around racial justice in this country than what we’re seeing portrayed as a great divide? Former NFL football player/now author and host of “Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man” Emmanuel Acho believes that many of us truly do want the same things when it comes to racial justice, but by living in long-held attitudes and perpetuating insensitive commentary around race, we’ve been unable to make the big strides needed to make lasting change. Emmanuel believes that everything great comes by being uncomfortable first, and by pushing us toward those uncomfortable moments, he’s hoping to topple the attitudes we might not even be aware we’ve been caught up in, toward a better and more understanding way of being. He also recognizes that getting people to embrace discomfort toward change is tough, but it’s worth it. Emmanuel puts the thought out there that racial insensitivity is a bigger problem than racism itself in our country, and points out that living in D-E-N-I-A-L (don’t even know I am lying) keeps that insensitivity intact. Emmanuel and Jen walk through the difference between outright racism (which universally, most of us are against) and racial insensitivity (which many of us are guilty of without even knowing it). Come get uncomfortable with us and let’s all move toward making something great.

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Releasing The Fantasy of “The Good Girl” with Dr. Shefali Tsabary Jun 22, 2021

We continue with the “For the Love of Transitions” series and it’s giving us so many new perspectives on pushing back against what we’ve always known and finding new ways to grow and evolve into the person we have always wanted to be. This week’s episode really hits us where we live as we pursue to live a life that is “free”; free from pain, free from hurt, and free from bending to the will and opinion of others. Do you think you are living freely? In your soul, choices, and relationships? Do your actions embody the hopes and dreams you have for yourself? Or, are you acting under an assumed role? One that has always told us we need to be “the good girl;” one that is passive, servile and in the receiving position? It's hard to see through the systems we’ve become so toxically comfortable with. We have families and friends and jobs to worry about and care for and oftentimes it’s easier to fall into the assumed role than to build our own. However, when we wake up to being sovereign in our own authority, there is a liberation like no other. To walk us through this Radical Awakening (also the title of her brand new book) is Dr. Shefali Tsabary. Dr. Shefali is a New York Times bestselling author, a renowned clinical psychologist, and teacher to women as they transcend their fears and illusions to break free from the mold society has forced them into. Dr. Shefali and Jen have a vulnerable conversation about coming into a new and powerful sense of ourselves--and realizing that as women, “We have not been taught to back ourselves up. We've not been taught to put all our eggs inside our basket. And we don't know what it means to have our own back.” Dr. Shefali gently shows us that inner voice that every woman knows she has speaking to her, but is often avoiding by eating too much, being distracted too much, relentlessly serving family or work. Ultimately, freedom comes by not treating your inner knowing as a liar, but allowing it to speak and show you the truth about what’s really wrong and right in your world.

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The Shifting Role of Religion vs. Faith with Diana Butler Bass Jun 15, 2021

Continuing in our “For the Love of Transitions” series, we look at crossroads many of us are facing in regards to our view of faith and religion. More than ever before, people in our country are choosing not to identify with a specific religion, including a large segment of Millennials who say they’ve “never attended church.” But amidst these shifts, there are many who hold tight to their faith, but haven’t found the stability of years past in the institutions they used to invest in for themselves and their families. What are the reasons for this shift? It’s a complex topic and sometimes charged to discuss, and we’ve got independent scholar and author, Diana Butler Bass to help us walk through it. Diana’s newest book, Freeing Jesus, invites readers to rediscover Jesus beyond the narrow confines society has built around Him. While discussing the mass exodus that’s happening in today’s churches, Jen and Diana look at how faith can and does thrive outside the pews of the church, and they ask the question: if we are church-goers, how can we work toward making our churches alive and welcoming for everyone?

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Sue Monk Kidd’s “The Book of Longings” Jun 11, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For May 2021, Jen and the club read Sue Monk Kidd’s The Book of Longings. Sue’s writing skyrocketed into notoriety after the publication of her book, The Secret Life of Bees. This novel spent nearly two years on the New York Times bestsellers list, has been translated into 36 languages, and has sold nearly 8 million copies. In addition to that smash hit, she has been nominated for and won numerous literary awards and has once again published a book that is impacting readers worldwide. The Book of Longings takes readers centuries back and immerses them in the world of Anna and her husband, Jesus. We get an intimate look at all the ways women can love, support, and encourage each other, while ensuring the stories of their lives are heard and told. This book reminds us that the power of a person does not come from who they are with and what their social status says, but instead, the way any individual impacts the world comes directly from their heart, dreams, and bravery.

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Rebuilding Your Life Out of the Rubble with Amy Downs Jun 08, 2021

This week we are kicking off a brand new series here on the For the Love Podcast. There are so many times in each of our lives where a curveball just knocks us on our backs. The unexpected transition from what you thought was going to happen to your new reality is often hard to grapple with. But sometimes, we choose to make a major life change. So we’ll talk through all the ways we can embrace a transition. We’ll seek guidance from people who have made those transitions, learned from the struggle, and benefited from going through the process. Amy Downs epitomizes what it means to be thrown unwittingly into a situation that could have had a profoundly negative affect on her life, only to come out leading the charge for some amazing changes in her life. Amy is a survivor of the Oklahoma City Bombing--the last living person to be found under the rubble that claimed 168 souls that day. Amy’s outlook changed dramatically, and the 350 lb overweight college dropout with an attitude that she’d never amount to much used this experience to reclaim each area of her life by turning it around for the better. She and Jen talk about the horror of that day and how sometimes it’s possible to literally emerge from the rubble of our lives to take small steps toward healing and change.

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Spring Back Series: Living Proudly with Sydney Hatmaker Jun 01, 2021

It’s the last episode of our Spring Back series--and we’re wrapping it up with a conversation that was the most listened to (and commented on) episode in our entire For the Love podcast history--and it’s with none other than Jen’s daughter, Sydney Hatmaker! Sydney first appeared on our show last summer, where she shared with the world that she was gay; walking us through her journey, beginning at 12 years old, and how hard she worked to reckon this with her faith and the beliefs of her family. This conversation between daughter and mother is so real, so brave, and if you haven’t heard it, you’re going to want to listen in as Jen and Sydney discuss some hard situations where religion and sexuality intersect and ultimately, how what they knew to be true about God and His love and mercy, was true for LGBTQ people of faith as well. And what better time to revisit our time with Sydney than during Pride month--plus we’ve got all new commentary from Jen and some updates about where Sydney is now in her life that you won’t want to miss!

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Spring Back Series: Finding Your Truth with Abby Wambach & Glennon Doyle May 25, 2021

Are you ready to find your truth? We are currently in the tail-end of our spring back series where we are re-visiting some of our favorite episodes from For The Love past, and Jen’s bringing some all new insight and commentary to the conversation, as it is relevant to where we all are right now. This week we bring you the blockbuster combo of Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach! We love them here, but just in case you’re new, Glennon is a speaker, encourager, and a New York Times bestselling author with her most recent book, Untamed, passing 2 million copies sold--and she’s just started a brand new podcast called We Can Do Hard Things. Abby is an international soccer icon, bestselling author of the book WOLFPACK, and an activist for women and equal rights. This powerhouse couple and their unwavering belief in women inspires millions, and their work to create a more beautiful world for everyone is aspirational. So, this week, we are springing back to their first time here, and stick around all the way to the end as Jen has some new takeaways about lessons learned and how we can take those and dive straight into the life we have always been meant to live.

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Spring Back Series: Loving Fiercely with Marcie Walker May 18, 2021

There are so many lessons in life that are evergreen; they stay with us through each season, and that’s why we’re revisiting some episodes that bring those truths home in ways that are so applicable to where we are in life. Right. Now. For this episode of our Spring Back Series, we are bringing back one of our favorites - Marcie Alvis-Walker. Marcie is the creator of Black Coffee with White Friends and is an incredible teacher, leader, and woman. The first time she was here, Marcie and Jen talked through what racism actually looks like in America, the ways our history is steeped in minority erasure, and how each of us plays a role in the way stories are told. And this is a topic that is not going away, in fact, it may be more prominent now than ever before. Plus, Jen weighs in with some all new commentary regarding some key events of the past year that relate to this timeless conversation and how we can continue to uphold the idea of putting aside opinions for just a minute so we can better listen and know our neighbor.

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Spring Back Series: Embracing Authenticity with Luvvie Ajayi Jones May 11, 2021

Each day as we inch closer to summer, we are reminded of all the possibilities that surround us daily. The leaves on the trees are becoming greener by the minute, the grass is finally dense and fluffy, flowers are pushing their way through the dirt. And just as the earth evolves, so do we. That’s why we wanted to bring you the Spring Back Series. After a particularly hard year or winter, it’s hard to remember all that we learned the year before. It’s even harder to put those lessons into practice and find ways to evolve into the people we were meant to be. So today we are springing back to an episode we love featuring the one and only Luvvie Ajayi Jones. You may know her as the New York Times bestselling author of I’m Judging You or as a speaker and podcast host. She exists beautifully at the intersection of comedy, media, and justice. She encourages all women to embrace their authentic selves and continually strive to be the best versions of themselves. So let’s spring back to Luvvie’s first time here with all new commentary from Jen about the impact of social media, the three steps we can take to be true to ourselves, and Luvvie’s new book, Professional Troublemaker.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Jen & Friends on Simple and Free May 07, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For April 2021, Jen chose her own book, Simple and Free, because what’s the point in having a book club if you can’t pick your own book every now and again? Jen invited two of her very best friends, Jenny and Shonna, to jump in on the discussion. They reminisce about the group decision to dive into living the experience of writing the book, why eating beans and rice for a whole month isn’t the most fun, and how not to train for a half marathon. This book reminds us that in a world filled with choices, sometimes you need to boil it down and bring it back to truly understand what you have, and recognize what means most to you.

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Spring Back Series: Growing Boldly & Simply with Emily Ley May 04, 2021

Just as we rely on spring each year to bring light and warmth back into our lives, we also depend on the lessons of life that show up during each season. That’s why on this series of For the Love we are bringing back some of our all-time favorite guests. Not only to remind ourselves of what life was like way back when it was normal, but also to give ourselves the chance to look back on some life lessons that we should always carry with us. And this week, we are bringing you the one and only, Emily Ley. You know the superstar mom that built the Simplified empire from the ground up? Yes, that one. Not only does she guide women to live their lives based in simplicity, she also encourages them to evaluate what truly matters, and ditch what doesn’t. Jen revisits why it’s so important to not only clear clutter from your home, but to also clear the clutter mentally. Because once we take the time to remove the unnecessary parts of life, we are then able to live a life filled with joy and passion for what we actually care about. AND Jen has all new commentary about how decluttering gives you space to live simple and free and grow boldly--also the topics of Jen’s and Emily’s new books.

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Spring Back Series #1: Courageously Changing with Beth Moore Apr 27, 2021

Spring is here, and you know what that means! Blossoming, regrowth, cleaning out, all the goodness that comes with a new season. But that doesn’t mean we should leave behind the lessons learned last season. We can be watering what we planted, watching it grow, and trying to become the better humans we’ve always strived to be. There are truths and lessons that come back year after year, reminding us of who we want to be and who we should be. To that end, we’ve gathered some wisdom from a few of our favorite For The Love Podcast guests that speak into what’s happening in our world right now, plus some brand new commentary from Jen as to how we can apply these ideas to where we are in our lives today. Spring back with as we revisit these time-tested truths while we keep on finding our footing in the present.

Episode Description

It’s new series time--and we’re “springing back” to some For the Love favorites, while bringing you some new thoughts from Jen’s heart in this season! As they say, what’s old becomes new again, and we can rely on spring every year to bring us that new growth; from the plants to the trees, and oftentimes within our own souls. This week we are bringing back one of Jen’s longtime inspirations and mentors, Beth Moore. Beth’s recent split from her roots in the Southern Baptist community after calling out the misogyny, inequality, and disregard for many minority communities has a lot of people talking. It was a big, huge deal, and Jen explains what this means to the Christian zeitgeist. Jen also revisits her favorite moments with Beth and dives back into how we can learn to live a life filled with faith even if that means pushing back against long held, and perhaps antiquated beliefs. So, let’s Spring back to our interview with Beth, and reflect on the biblical concept of the vineyard and how vines can grow in rocky places, opening space for God to prune and prepare us for change that comes with seasons of growth.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Laura Zigman’s “Separation Anxiety” Apr 23, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For March 2021, Jen and the club read Laura Zigman’s Separation Anxiety. Laura shot into superstardom with the publication of her first novel, Animal Husbandry, which was later adapted into the film Someone Like You starring Hugh Jackman and Ashley Judd. So, no big deal for your first book, right? Laura’s latest book, Separation Anxiety, helps readers face the complexities of everyday life in the 21st century. From self-help culture, anxiety, depression, and longing for what once was, Zigman knits and weaves the lives of her characters in a way that makes them relatable, complex, and at times absurd. The book reminds us that not everything is straightforward with one path ahead. Oftentimes we need to evaluate where we are and how we can grow in order to be who we’re meant to be.

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NEW JEN BOOK!

Get Simple and Free, a call toward simplicity and generosity for a radically better life (a revised and updated version of Jen’s book 7) https://jenhatmaker.com/books/simple-and-free

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Joanna Gaines on Gardening, Ramen, and Bringing Family to the Table Apr 20, 2021

It’s the grand finale of our For the Love of Food series—and lucky for us, we’ve got someone on today who holds the very high honor of “Most Requested For the Love Podcast Guest of All Time”—Joanna Gaines! Jen and Jo are real-life buddies, and this week they dive into Joanna’s rich family heritage that introduced her to so many cuisines from around the world by the time she could crawl. They dish about how to get a big family to get to the table, let alone connect at the table, how Jo finds joy in her garden, and why the kitchen is her happy place (even as she’s learning to cook on camera for her new show on the Magnolia Network called Magnolia Table with Joanna Gaines). The two also get into very serious topics like the war between Ragú and Prego, and why ramen most certainly *cannot* have an egg in it. Through it all, Joanna shows that food has the power to bring life to any situation, and why getting folks around the table is far more important than how perfect the dish is that brought them there.

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Jeff Mauro on the “Come On Over” Mentality & Proper Sandwich Protocol Apr 13, 2021

“Come on over.” Talk about three words that promise fun’s on the way! We’re daydreaming of getting back to game nights with our besties, and margaritas with the neighbors, and the great Jeff Mauro is no exception. You may know him as a cohost on Food Network’s The Kitchen, or maybe as a winner of The Next Food Network Star. After getting his start working in a deli when he was 15 and later opening his own, Jeff is the larger-than-life sandwich king who’s just published a cookbook and launched a podcast—and both are called Come On Over! Jeff and Jen dive into why you *must* establish proper sandwich making protocol, and why it’s wise to become friends with your local deli guy. Jeff shows us that food has the power to bring together people of all ages, and after the past year, the “Come On Over” mentality might look different, but we can still find the same spirit of love and connection through a shared meal.

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Cookbooks, Country Music, and Creativity with Martina McBride Apr 06, 2021

When you’re a kitchen newbie, it can feel a little intimidating—and even overwhelming—to figure out how to put a good meal together, especially if you’re just asking yourself questions like, “What the heck is oregano, anyway?” But we all start somewhere, even world-renowned country music artists. Martina McBride is a 14-time GRAMMY-nominated country singer, cookbook author, and self-taught home chef. Jen and Martina talk through what it’s really like to put a cookbook together, how these two Kansas girls learned the ins and outs of the kitchen in their adult years, and how a neighborhood golf cart can bring us a new verse to our all-time favorite Martina song “For the Girls!”

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Chaat, Chopped, and Culinary Globe Trotting with Maneet Chauhan Mar 30, 2021

We *know* we aren’t the only ones who spend hours on the couch binging episodes of Chopped or Iron Chef. Not only is it super satisfying watching other people cook— we feel like we become friends with the contestants and judges. And this week, we get to hear from one of our favorite Food Network chefs/judges/friends, Maneet Chauhan! Maneet and Jen take a walk through Maneet’s culinary history from her beginnings in India to the leap she took into the NYC culinary scene, and why she decided to begin her own restaurant empire in Nashville. Maneet has become known as the fun, kind, and bubbly judge on Chopped and now tells the full story of her path to culinary star in her latest book, Chaat. We’re so pleased to have Maneet’s perspective during our For the Love of Food series as she lifts up fellow female professional chefs and helps us understand the legacy of culturally driven foods.

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Community Bonding over Anchovy Pasta with Alex Snodgrass Mar 23, 2021

In the past year, many of us have looked at our kitchens and had to flip the Open sign to Closed. We put big holidays dinners on hold. We canceled game nights with our friends. We traded cutting boards for takeout containers because we just. couldn’t. cook. another. meal. But we still need to eat and nourish our bodies and souls, and for that, we turn to Alex Snodgrass of The Defined Dish. Alex shares her unlikely journey to creating a popular food brand and a New York Times bestselling cookbook (also called The Defined Dish), how to your get over your anchovy aversion (it’s worth it, we promise), and why healthy eating doesn’t mean a carrot stick on a bed of lettuce. Jen and Alex talk about how food can bond groups of people who may not come together otherwise, and why forming a community is super rewarding—even if you’re separated by a screen.

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[BONUS] Jennifer Garner on the Power of Saying Yes Mar 19, 2021

Break out the confetti cannons because today’s guest is someone we’ve wanted on the show since Day 1: the one and only Jennifer Garner! Who didn’t love Alias? Who doesn’t watch 13 Going on 30 at least once a year? Jen Garner is one of our favorite actors ever, and today, the two Jens talk about all things Yes Day, Jen Garner’s brand-new movie on Netflix that’s the *perfect* feel-good watch for your family this spring break. The Jens talk about the phenomenon of Yes Days they’ve shared with their own kids (i.e. magical days where kids can do basically anything they want within reason) and how these days have brought their families closer together. From sitting in the front seat to getting eyebrows threaded to sharing s’mores around a campfire in the backyard, there’s so much joy to be found when we say yes a little more to our kids—and even to ourselves.

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Thai Food, Traveling with Knives, and Connections at the Table: Bri McKoy Mar 16, 2021

We hope all you foodies out there have been enjoying the Food 2.0 series. But we know some of you saw what this series was about and thought, I can’t cook, I’ve never cooked, I will never cook, and you can’t make me! Listen, we get it—cooking isn’t everyone’s bag. It wasn’t Bri McKoy’s either. Bri’s an accidental home cook turned cookbook author, and her foray into the culinary space started when her husband refused to build a home out of their collection of Thai takeout containers. Bri reluctantly learned what a pinch of salt was, how to literally toast bread, and that onion casseroles perhaps aren’t the best idea to serve, well, ever. Bri watched a lot of Food Network and honed her craft, and since then she’s found a love for traveling with knives, and as a military wife, she’s learned food can be an easy way to bring people to the table and build community. Jen and Bri share some of their most epic kitchen failures, divulge the biggest lessons we can learn from standing over a stove, and reveal their can’t-live-without-it kitchen gadgets. Bri shows that food fills our days with simple joy and helps us forge new relationships with people in ways we never thought possible—even over a Zoom cocktail.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Jacqueline Woodson’s “Red at the Bone” Mar 12, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For February 2021, the Jen Hatmaker Book Club read the novel Red at the Bone by four-time National Book Award winner Jacqueline Woodson, and whew, what a story. Jacqueline is a master storyteller who explores all kinds of topics—sexual desire and identity, ambition, gentrification, education, class and status, and the life-altering facts of parenthood—with the grace and nuance that each deserves. Red at the Bone is a fascinating novel that looks at the ways young people often make long-lasting decisions about their lives—even before they’ve begun to figure out who they are and what they want to be.

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Great British Bake Off’s Nadiya Hussain on Confidence & Mayo Mashed Potatoes Mar 09, 2021

We’ve got a crush on this series and everyone in it—because FOOD! For the Love of Food, Part 2 is cooking up something new this week as we move into BAKING with a member of the royal family of baking itself—The Great British Bake Off’s Nadiya Hussain! Nadiya is not only the Mary Poppins of baking, she’s also hosting a brand-new show on Netflix that’ll be your brand-new happy place, and it’s called—what else?—Nadiya Bakes. Nadiya reveals why she never turned on an oven or baked anything until her 20s, why her husband sent in an application to Bake Off without her knowing (!), and how she learned to be confident in the kitchen and how to keep saying yes to new opportunities. Nadiya shows us that baking doesn’t have to be Bake Off-level perfect to bring people together, and promises our mashed potatoes would be better if we just added a bit of mayo to the mix (we’ll take her word for it!).

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Ree Drummond on Microwaved Ding Dongs and Other Real-Life Cooking Mar 02, 2021

It’s a big day on For the Love, friends—we’re celebrating our 200th episode! We’re kicking off a brand-new series about food! And we’re celebrating it all with an FTL Fan Favorite: The Pioneer Woman herself, Ree Drummond! Ree’s back on the show to talk about the best (or tackiest?) sweatshirt of all time gifted to her by none other than Purveyor of Fine Sweatshirts, Jen Hatmaker. Jen and Ree talk about their favorite pastimes, potato chip sandwiches, what Ree makes when she’s just freaking tired of cooking (there may be a lot of jars involved), and the importance of a microwaved Ding Dong in a well-balanced diet. Not only does Ree show that cooking can be fun, she shares that it doesn’t have to be complicated and perfect—in fact, it’s probably better if it’s not.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] William Kent Krueger’s “This Tender Land” Feb 26, 2021

Calling all book nerds! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Join us at jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. For January 2021, the Jen Hatmaker Book Club read the novel This Tender Land by the author extraordinaire William Kent Krueger. Chock full of intrigue and adventure and drama, this unforgettable story of four orphans who travel the Mississippi River on a life-changing journey during the Great Depression just absolutely transported us. During this episode, Kent dives into the real-life research behind the Lincoln Indian Training School, and how Mark Twain and The Odyssey played a huge role in shaping the story. Kent gives us a peek into the family that he created among the brave runaways and how their bond shifts as they heal together throughout the novel.

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Leaning in to Love Others (Even When We Disagree): Rozella Haydée White Feb 23, 2021

Have you ever had a conversation with a friend or loved one where you couldn’t find common ground about something that fundamentally mattered to you? Is it possible for those relationships to continue, even though you don’t see eye to eye? Today we’re wrapping up our For the Love of Reconnecting series and talking about some of the hardest reconnecting of all: how to stay engaged with and even love someone who thinks differently from us. To guide us through this rocky terrain, we have Rozella Haydée White—AKA the Love Big Coach. Rozella is a theologian, a spiritual life-coach and a leadership consultant who guides people to give and receive love that is life-giving and justice-seeking. Rozella and Jen walk through what it means to lean into the hardest conversations and make space for yourself and the ones you love (or have a hard time loving). Rozella reminds us that, “If we believe that people are created in the image of God, then I don't really have a choice but to believe in people.”

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Ambition is a Girl's Best Friend: Priyanka Chopra Jonas on Reconnecting with Our Dreams Feb 16, 2021

Over the past year, we’ve had to put our dreams on hold. We canceled vacations, missed family gatherings, and constantly wondered, How long will my life look like this? But those spaces in our calendars have given us the margin to think about what’s next for us. And as we continue our For the Love of Reconnecting series, we’re going to go out on a limb and thinking about what it looks like to reconnect with our dreams. And our next guest, Priyanka Chopra Jonas knows all about that. Priyanka’s a triple-threat: she’s an actor, a social activist, and now the author of a brand-new memoir called Unfinished. Jen and Priyanka trace Priyanka’s winding path from India to the US as a teen, and how she’s leaped with both feet into new projects and challenges and discovered that being willing to fail is an important part of leveling up and investing in ourselves. Jen and Priyanka dive into why it’s so important to normalize ambition in women and girls, and why putting boots on the ground is crucial to making our dreams a reality.

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Communication Drives Connection—and Healing: Dr. Mark Goulston Feb 09, 2021

Get ready for a deep-dive into what it means to listen and connect with those around you with our next guest in the Reconnecting series: psychiatrist and executive coach Dr. Mark Goulston. As a former FBI hostage negotiation trainer, Dr. Goulston knows how to reach out to and connect with just about anyone. After the past twelve months, we’re all living on edge, and Dr. Goulston gives Jen a few communication tips to guide tense conversations toward calm. Plus, Dr. Goulston shows us how people are icebergs and why asking someone, “What’s really going on?” more than once helps us drill down and discover what the real problem is. And spoiler alert: when we vulnerably share what’s going on with us, and when someone listens and responds without judgment—whether we’re doing the sharing or the listening, true connection really does help us heal. And after 2020, we’re all due for a heavy dose of healing.

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Exploring the Joys and Pitfalls of Online Connection: Chris Stedman Feb 02, 2021

Break out a pen and notebook, because today on For the Love, we’re going back to school with writer and professor Chris Stedman, our next guest in the For the Love of Reconnecting series. A former chaplain at Harvard and founding director of the Yale Humanist Community, Chris just wrote a fascinating book called IRL: Finding Realness, Meaning, and Belonging in Our Digital Lives. He’s a millennial who grew up fluent in the digital world but didn’t have a smartphone that tethered him to the internet until after his formative years, when a post he wrote went viral and steered him toward building a platform online. The internet of today is definitely not the one Chris grew up with—it’s no longer something we log in and out of. Chris and Jen talk about the beauty of finding and building community online and expanding our circles of belonging, but also why it’s so important to disconnect from tech every once in a while, because we discover things about ourselves in the silence of retreat that we may not see otherwise. And while sometimes the internet can seem like a place teeming with chaos, Chris reminds us that we have the power to choose how *we* engage with technology, that we control our devices—not the other way around.

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Reconnecting with God Through Our Wandering with Bunmi Laditan Jan 26, 2021

With so much discussion around finding different ways to connect in a season where literal physical connections are challenging at best, how do we address when our spiritual connections are faltering? How do we “feel seen” by God when things are not okay and our attitudes are washed in more doubt than belief? Writer Bunmi Laditan (also known by her online moniker, The Honest Toddler) joins For the Love to share her lifelong journey of wrestling with God and faith, and ultimately finding hope, acceptance, and love. The daughter of Nigerian immigrants, Bunmi ran away from home as a teen, seeking a home and faith that wouldn’t shackle her to rules and tradition. During her wanderings in both the spiritual and physical world, she explored relationships and different faith traditions before finally coming to know a core truth that has informed her ever since: God sees her and loves her—and He would come to meet her, no matter where her wandering took her.

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Making Good Use of Our Emotions: Hilary Jacobs Hendel Jan 19, 2021

It’s so hard to feel your feelings—especially when you have all of them all at once, and it’s never a convenient time to process them. For the past year, we’ve all been stewing with anxiety, stress, anger, loneliness, grief, and fear. Ignoring our hard feelings might seem like the easiest way to cope and get relief—but it’s not the only option available to us. Our next guest in our For the Love of Reconnecting Series, psychoanalyst and therapist Hilary Jacobs Hendel, reminds us that when we disconnect from our harder emotions, we disconnect from the life-giving ones too, like joy—and don’t we all need more of that right now?. Hilary’s the author of a fascinating book called It’s Not Always Depression (and psst: she consulted on the psychological development of characters in Mad Men!), and she and Jen talk about the freedom we find when we realize emotions just are, and we don’t have to judge them. In fact, instead of shutting down, Hilary shows us how we can walk ourselves toward self-compassion and healing, which gives us real resilience—not the kind that we *think* we have by stuffing down our feelings.

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How Boundaries Can Save Your Relationships with Nedra Glover Tawwab Jan 12, 2021

Next up in our For the Love of Reconnecting series, we’re touching base with a very important and easy-to-lose-hold-of concept: our boundaries. If 2020 taught us anything, it’s how much setting boundaries impacts our life. So why do we feel guilty when we actually do set them? And when was the last time you took a second to think about what you need and what you have the capacity for? Therapist Nedra Glover Tawwab, author of the book Set Boundaries, Find Peace, walks us through how we draw these needed lines, and why it’s important for us to have them in the first place (spoiler alert: they’re crucial for our mental health and keep us away from resentment and burnout). It’s okay for us to ask for what we want and take charge of our own lives, even if some people don’t agree—because in the end, you really do know what’s best for you.

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Allison Winn Scotch’s “Cleo McDougal Regrets Nothing” Jan 08, 2021

Sneak peek alert! Are you looking for a place where your book-loving heart can flourish? Look no further, and allow us to welcome you to the Jen Hatmaker Book Club. Want to join us? Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com, and become one of our sisters in nerdiness. This month, we read the oh-so-powerful Cleo McDougal Regrets Nothing by Allison Winn Scotch. Allison tells us why the #MeToo and TIME’S UP movements inspired her to write this story, plus we dive into how regrets can impact our lives and how they present an opportunity for amends and personal growth. We get to unpack Cleo’s engaging and fierce character, what it’s like to be a woman in this moment in time (and to be one in politics!), and how being unapologetically ambitious might mean you’re not liked. Allison walks us through how she crafted a character that doesn’t rub everyone the right way, but how we still end up rooting for Cleo anyway. By unpacking abuse of power, examining Cleo’s role as a mother, and watching her learn to confront her not-so-great decisions, Allison has woven a tale that captivates us and teaches us and inspires us to be leaders ourselves.

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Rewriting the Stories We Tell Ourselves: Lori Gottlieb Jan 05, 2021

New year, new series! We’re thinking all about For the Love of Reconnecting, where we’ll try to get back in touch with who we are and what we value, so that we can start to inch forward in this brand-new year. What’s holding you back? Is there a real obstacle standing in the way of your growth—or is it just a story you’re telling yourself? Therapist, author, TED Talk superstar and podcast host Lori Gottlieb knows a thing or two about the stories we tell ourselves. In fact, Lori opens up her life in a deeply vulnerable way, taking us into the stories she told herself as a practicing therapist and how she moved past them in her New York Times bestselling memoir Maybe You Should Talk to Someone. Lori explains that we are the narrators of our own stories, and how we talk to ourselves and tell the story of our lives shapes who we will become. She asserts that when we begin to take responsibility for our choices and allow ourselves to examine what’s working in or lives and what we can tweak a little bit, we’ll begin to let go of the feeling of being trapped—and find a power in ourselves we never knew was there.

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Living While We Wait: Cece Jones-Davis’ Blessing for 2021 Dec 29, 2020

We made it, you guys—we’re finally turning the corner into a brand-new year and into the hope of a fresh start. And while 2021 will no doubt have its set of challenges, we’ve set our minds to living in the moment while we wait for a post-pandemic world to settle in, thanks to inspiration from minister and activist Cece Jones-Davis. Cece was one of our favorite 2020 guests, and she’s back to lead us through a vigil on what we’ve walked through this year and reflect on all the beautiful things we have to look forward to. Cece reminds us that the weariness we feel from this year can be a powerful catalyst towards change for the better, and why 2021 can be the year of “Alive” (which happens to be the title of her brand-new worship album!). And here’s a little reminder for you, sister: as we enter a new chapter, remember that God is alive in you, and He has plans for hope and a future with your name written right on top.

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Hallmark and Chill: Christmas Movies with the guys from Deck the Hallmark Dec 22, 2020

It’s the most wonderful time of the year! But let’s be honest: if you’re a Hallmark Christmas Movie addict, it’s been the most wonderful time of the year since October, and you’re *not sorry* about it. And neither are Dan, Panda, and Bran—the 3 dudes behind the smash-hit podcast Deck the Hallmark. These Hallmark movie connoisseurs each have a different perspective: Bran loves them, Panda’s okay with them, and Dan hate-watches with all his might. Jen and the guys break down why these, let’s

face it, “less than stellar production value-filled” shows are so addicting. AND are we ever surprised that the big-city girl falls for the small-town candlemaker who owns the snowy inn?! The group dishes on the best movies Hallmark has to offer (spoiler alert: The Fonz makes an appearance!), and which ones you desperately need to avoid. And to wrap this holiday episode in the most beautiful bow, the group signs off by divulging their fantasy cast and plot lines for the Hallmark movies of their dreams.

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Winning by Saying Yes to What’s Next: Lori Allen Dec 15, 2020

This week, we’re wrapping up our celebration of small wins amid the 2020 dumpster fire, and we’re asking ourselves two questions: where we go from here, and how do we say yes what’s ahead? Savvy businesswoman and bubbly star of TLC’s Say Yes to the Dress: Atlanta Lori Allen has said yes to many things in her life: launching and running a successful bridal boutique for 40 years, fighting breast cancer, and managing the roles of wife, mom, grandmother, and daughter of aging parents. Lori and Jen break down how to push through resistance to change and breakthrough to accept the next yes, even when we don’t know what’s ahead.

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✅Clutching onto Faith in the Wilderness Moments: Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart Dec 08, 2020

“If my faith cannot offer me something in the wilderness moments, it isn’t worth having,” says Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart. And as we explore the silver linings of this turbulent year, Rev. Naomi’s wisdom is just what we need as we turn our thoughts to how our faith has held us up, stretched our empathy, and asked us to hold suffering and joy with both hands. As Philadelphia’s Director of the Mayor’s Office of Faith-Based and Interfaith Affairs, Rev. Naomi has spent the year trying to bring faith communities together with the goal of healing a hurting city. And for those who may not be able to see a way forward, Rev. Naomi reminds us that God is still right there, never leaving us alone. Because as she says, “we are always becoming,” meaning that even through the impossible, good can be brought out of any story—including the ones we never asked for.

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**GIFT GUIDE ALERT**

Making your holiday gift list and checking it twice? Need more ideas for unique, useful, or doing-good gifts? Check out all the goodies on the 4th Annual Edition of Jen’s Favorite Things Holiday Gift Guide!

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[BOOK CLUB BONUS] Abbi Waxman’s “The Bookish Life of Nina Hill” Dec 04, 2020

Sneak peek alert! Are you a bookie? Do you love reading and talking about what you’re reading? Then the Jen Hatmaker Book Club is where you belong. Want to join us? Visit jenhatmakerbookclub.com, become one of the squad. This month, we read the fiercely feminine and delightful novel The Bookish Life of Nina Hill by the oh-so-talented Abbi Waxman. Abbi gives us a peek into her pleasurable work that’s truly the happy ending we need right now, because just like Nina, books are our escape. Abbi dives into what it was like to craft a character with ADHD and anxiety, and how she broke down that stigma, showing how preserving your mental health goes hand and hand with living a regular life. Abbi dives into what family issues can look like realistically, how the small moments can make the most spectacular relationship, and how dominating at trivia can give you a minute of triumph when you need it.

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Laughing Through the Ugly Cry with Dawn Barton Dec 01, 2020

Joy and pain aren’t mutually exclusive; they mingle together in our stories every single day. That’s probably never been more true than in 2020. In these moments, we reach for guides who have traveled through some dark moments and come out the other side, and we couldn’t have a better teacher than writer, speaker, and self-proclaimed joyologist Dawn Barton. Pain and loss have been familiar companions to Dawn for a long time. She’s lost a baby daughter, and a sister to cancer. She’s suffered through sexual assault and walked her mother through recovery from an aneurysm, and her husband through alcohol addiction. Dawn has seen suffering, but she’s also realized that even in the middle of pain, you can experience full-fledged joy. Moments of hurt create opportunities for others to show up for us, and allow us to experience love in ways beyond what we ever thought possible (and sometimes scary times lead to hilarious ones, as Dawn found during her misadventures with a prosthetic breast named Lucky). Ultimately, our lives come full circle when we get to help someone else through their painful moments the way that others once helped us.

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**GIFT GUIDE ALERT**

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2020 Heroes Build Bridges Over Walls: Combat Vet Diana Oestreich Nov 24, 2020

2020 has shaken up so many of our beliefs. What’s normal? What’s safe? What does it look like for our families and our communities to thrive? These are life-changing questions, and today’s guest is someone who has been searching for the answers to these very questions for nearly two decades. Diana Oestreich was an American soldier in Iraq who received orders to keep her convoy rolling at all costs, even if children crossed her path. And in that gut-wrenching moment, Diana decided she couldn’t follow those orders, and she would fight for peace with sacrifice instead of bullets. Today Diana “wages peace” with love and justice alongside the organization Preemptive Love, and she and Jen talk about who the true heroes are, and how everything changes in our world when we choose to build bridges instead of walls.

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**GIFT GUIDE ALERT**

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The Lazy Genius Life with Recovering Perfectionist Kendra Adachi Nov 17, 2020

Do you know who has a PhD in Small Wins? We do, because this week on the show we have The Lazy Genius, AKA the brilliant and delightful Kendra Adachi! Kendra is the woman who brought the Tim Riggins Salad and Change Your Life Chicken to the internet, and she is about to change our lives far beyond the fridge (though fun fact: that chicken is delicious). Kendra’s going to give us a treasure trove of pro tips, like the beauty of 17-minute naps and the stress-reducing way to clean up our kitchens (hint: zones, people—it’s all about the zones!). As a recovering perfectionist, Kendra’s learned how to strike the middle ground between “It has to be perfect!” and “Meh, I don’t care anymore.” She shows us how to care about what matters and let the rest go, because let’s be real: there’s just too much for us to care about everything. Plus, for all the Enneagram 1s and Type-As out there, Kendra reminds us that even if our plans are upended, it doesn’t mean our plans were wrong—it just means that life happened, and we’ll be okay.

And stay till the end for Jen and Kendra’s Hamilton love fest as they look around, look around at how lucky we are to be alive right now in a world with Lin Manuel-Miranda and Disney+!

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**GIFT GUIDE ALERT**