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    Health

    Feeling Good Podcast | TEAM-CBT – The New Mood Therapy

    This podcast features David D. Burns MD, author of “Feeling Good, The New Mood Therapy,” describing powerful new techniques to overcome depression and anxiety and develop greater joy and self-esteem. For therapists and the general public alike!

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    Copyright: Copyright © 2017 by David D. Burns, M.D.

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    Latest Episodes:
    409: Is the Universe One? Is the Universe Real? Aug 12, 2024
    Show notes

    Feeling Down? Try the Feeling Great App for Free!

    The Feeling Great App is now available in both app stores (IOS and Android) and is for therapists and the general public, and you can take a ride for free! Check it out at FeelingGreat.com!

    Is the Universe One? Is the Universe Real? Is the Universe Real?

    These two philosophical problems used to seem nonsensical to me, and certainly not relevant to much of anything in my life—or anyone's! But now the picture has changed a bit!

    When I was a student at Amherst College, I majored in the philosophy of science. On this show, I've often talked about my hero, Ludwig Wittgenstein, who attempted (successfully in my opinion) to "solve" all the problems of philosophy. He wanted to help those of us who were "afflicted" by an attraction to philosophical problems to see through them and understand precisely how and why they were nonsensical. He hoped to provide a "treatment" for philosophers so we could give up the need to obsess about nonsensical philosophical problems.

    Once you see through the these problems, they become kind of like a joke, and you can use jokes to help other people see through them. For example, here's a kind of lame joke about the question of whether or not the universe is "real." Wittgenstein said that before we try to answer questions like that, we might want to ask ourselves if these questions even makes sense! And if it a philosophical problem doesn't make sense, it isn't a real question, so we won't need to deal with it. In other words, questions that don't make sense don't need to be answered because they're not real questions.

    Take the question, "Is the universe real?"

    You could ask, "Well, what would it be like if the universe weren't real? What would that look like? How would things be different?" If you can't answer that question, the question might not make sense.

    To most of us, philosophical questions wound nonsensical because we are taking words, like "real," out of the contexts in which it DOES make sense. For example, we can ask : "Is this painting real? Or is it a fake?" That question does make sense. It has an obvious meaning, since many valuable paintings are copied and are fakes, and they try to pass them off as the "real" thing.

    But what would a "real" or "fake" universe look like? How would it differ from our universe?

    Now let's think about another example that is mildly humorous. Let's imagine you're driving through Iowa in the summer, and you spot a farmer working in his corn field. You're interested in speaking to him because you are writing a story about your travels in Iowa, and want to talk about the lives of farmers.

    So, you pull your car over to the side of the road and shout, "Howdy! What are you doing in the field?"

    The farmer seems pleased and grabs a gorgeous stalk of corn and holds it up and proudly shouts, "I'm growing corn, and it is real!"

    Well, that's great that he's happily growing corn, but what does the tag-on, "and it is real" mean? It doesn't actually mean anything, because farmers don't grow "unreal corn." So, in this context, the word has no meaning.

    Now, if you were on a movie set, they might actually be using artificial corn as a prop, so now the contrast between real and unreal corn becomes meaningful.

    This is a very humble point, but it's the very heart of what Wittgenstein was trying to make us aware of. Philosophical problems kind of sound meaningful and puzzling, but most of the time, they are simply a kind of nonsensical use of language.

    Now, in personal relationships, we might also have a notion of when people are being "real" or fake. And we often act fake because we don't think we're good enough just the way we really are. So, for example, you may hide your shyness in social situations because you're ashamed, and telling yourself that your shyness is incredibly weird and abnormal, and makes you "less than" other people.

    One method of helping people overcome shyness is simply to disclose it to others. This TEAM-CBT technique is called "Self-Disclosure." Instead of hiding your shyness and feeling awkward and ashamed in social situations, you share your feelings openly. Shame depends on hiding, so when you open up, the feelings of shame will often disappear.

    For example, in a recent podcast of a dramatic, live therapy session, a man named Chris revealed many troubling things about his teenage years that he'd been hiding for years. When he opened up, he began sobbing intensely, thinking he'd let his father down with his wild behavior when he was a high school student.

    His grief, he was incredibly compelling, and his courageous self-disclosure was appealing to most of us who were privileged to witness that session. Showing us his "real" self became his path to enlightenment, joy, and deeply meaningful relationships with himself and with all of us who witnessed that amazing session.

    So, although the question, "is the universe real" is silly and nonsensical, the question, "are we being real with each other," is definitely NOT silly or nonsensical. Being real and vulnerable is an important key to connecting with ourselves as well as other human beings.

    Is the Universe One?

    How about "Is the universe one?" This philosophical question also seemed nonsensical to me for years, although I was intellectually aware that some Buddhists make claims that the universe IS one and that the failure to "see" this is the basic of all evil. That's because if you see other humans, for example, as being "external" to yourself, you may feel you have the right to abuse and exploit them.

    However, for years I thought the idea that the universe is "one" seemed like sheer nonsense. For example, I am sitting in a chair typing, and there is a cup on the desk. People have never call that cup "David," and no one has ever called me a coffee cup (although lots of people have sad some pretty bad things about me!) So, I concluded that the cup and I are not "one," and so the whole thing about the universe being one seemed nonsensical and silly.

    But when I began to think about it in the context of my work with patients, my thinking suddenly changed. For example, the TEAM interpersonal model I've developed was based on research I did early in my career that suggested that Blame was one of the main causes of troubled relationships, and perhaps the most important and powerful cause.

    And this is certainly true in my personal life and in my work with individuals with troubled relationships who are unhappy in their marriages or people who are angry with their neighbors, or family members, or anyone. We almost always see ourselves as victims, and the other person as the one who is to blame for the problem. This triggers feelings of frustration, anger, and moral superiority, and can easily and often lead to arguments, mistrust, divorce, hostility, and violence, murder, and even war.

    Now, I'm beginning to see that the idea that we are separate from others, who are doing something TO us, does, in fact, lead to hostility, and arguably to evil. And once you "get it," the same insight applies to our relationships, not just with loved ones, friends, and other people in general, but also our relationships with animals, with the environment, and with the planet earth. If we think of them as "other," then we may conclude that it is okay to exploit or use them for our own advantage.

    In the interpersonal TEAM model, we focus more on circular causality, or interpersonal connectedness and ask the question, how do we actually shape and cause the very behavior in the other person that we complain about so vigorously? I have developed a fast, powerful tool that allows any to pinpoint their own role in a relationship problem very quickly and with reasonable accuracy. It's called the Relationship Journal (RJ), and we've talked about it often on this show.

    Essentially, it's simple to use the RJ, but it can be startling and illuminating but incredibly painful. All you have to do is write down ONE thing another person said to you that you found upsetting, and EXACTLY what you said next. Choose an interaction that did not go well; otherwise, it's a waste of time.

    Then, the RJ will take you through a step by step analysis of your response, and it's implications.

    When you discover how you are actually forcing the other person to treat you shabbily, it can hurt. This is one of the four 'Great Deaths" of the self, and it's the most painful of all, in my experience. This is the "Great Death" of the angry, blaming "self."

    I hate this great death! But if you have the courage to use it and take a look, it can be incredibly illuminating and liberating, and can put you on the path to far more loving relationships.

    As an exercise, I will list a number of common complaints that people have about loved ones, friends, or family that they find irritating. Your job will be to show how you could FORCE them to do the exact thing you are complaining about. The other person could be your partner, friend, son or daughter, etc. Your complaint about that person might be that they

    • Refuse to talk to me.
    • Can't (or won't) open up and express their feelings
    • Constantly whine and complain, and ignore and resist my good advice.
    • Constantly argue, and always have to be right.
    • Won't listen.
    • Are relentlessly critical.
    • Always have to get their way.
    • Doesn't treat me with respect.

    In each case, see if you can figure out how you could FORCE the other person to do that exact thing. We will discuss a couple of these on the show and lustrate solutions to give you a feel for how this works.

    Rhonda's and Matt shared their wise and interesting thoughts on both of these philosophical questions, and how you can understand them in the context of your own lives, and, if you're a shrink, how you can use them in your work with patients.

    Thanks for listening today!

    Matt, Rhonda, and David


    408: Do You Believe in God? Does God Exist? The Spiritual Dimension in TEAM-CBT Aug 05, 2024
    Show notes

    Special Announcement #1 The Legendary Summer Intensive Starts on Thursday of this week! Featuring Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt August 8 - 11, 2024 Click for registration / more information!

    This workshop is a training program which will be limited to therapists and mental health professionals and graduate students in a mental health field Apologies, but therapists have complained when non-therapists have attended our continuing education training programs. This is partly because of the intimate nature of the small group exercises and the personal work the therapists may do during the workshop. Certified coaches and counselors are welcome to attend.

    Special Announcement #2

    Here's some GREAT news! The Feeling Great App is now available in both app stores (IOS and Android) and is for therapists and the general public, and you can take a ride for free! Check it

    Today's Podcast #408-- Does God exist?

    We started today's podcast with a beautiful testimonial and a shout out for the intensive from August 8 to 11, 2024 at the South San Francisco Intensive in person or virtually if you prefer. To learn more, contact www.CBTintensive.com. Act fast because the intensive is on Thursday of this week when today's podcast will be published.

    Today, we tackle another popular and intensely debated philosophical / religious puzzle: Does God exist? People have very heated views, one way or the other. I (David) will start with a brief explanation of a Wittgenstein answer to this question, and then for the most part, we will focus instead on the question of how we all incorporate spirituality into TEAM-CBT.

    Wittgenstein emphasized that philosophical problem exist when we debate about the meanings of words or terms that are vague, or poorly defined. Traditionally, we think there are three positions one could take:

    1. Theism: You believe that God exists.
    2. Atheism: You do not believe in God.
    3. Agnosticism: You say that you do no know whether or not God exists.

    My own thinking, which is strongly influenced by Wittgenstein, would be that I don't understand any of those three stances because I have no idea what you mean by your use of the word, "God." What is it, exactly, that I'm supposed to believe in, or not believe in?

    To me, the question, "Do you believe in God," is nonsensical, so I simply do not deal with it. All of the three positions listed above are based on the idea that the word, "God," has some kind of clear meaning that we can all agree upon. But it clearly does not.

    You might define "God" as the "creator of the universe." Well, there is certainly something magical and mysterious about the existence and creation of the universe (assuming it did begin with some kind of "big bang.") Some questions might include "Where did all the energy come from all of a sudden?" Or "Are there many universes?"

    These are valid questions, and physicists are pursuing the answers, which is very exciting and fantastic. But they are generally not invoking the concept of a "God," although some undoubtedly would say that they do "believe in Gad."

    Regardless, I cheer them on and find every new discovery about the nature of the universe, and how the universe works, endlessly fascinating!

    For today, we will ask a much simpler question of whether and how we include some kind of spiritual dimension into our work as shrinks. This is a topic that is equally exciting, and definitely meaningful.

    Rhonda got us started by explain that she sees the belief in God as a matter of faith, and is not something that can be tested empirically, which is certainly true. She says she does believe in God, or some "higher power," but does not believe in a God who "rules over things."

    She was raised in the Jewish religion, and says that many Jews believe that God exists in everyone . This sounds a little like Hinduism, which traces back at least 2500 years ago, and possibly as early as 5000 years ago. I believe that the Hindus believe that God exists in everything.

    The practical impact of the belief that God exists in all of us, is that we will treat each other with love and respect, since we are all an expression of God. She also said that we can "create God among us as a community."

    Matt said that he was raised as a Christian and that when he was growing up he had heard about miracles, like Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead in the New Testament on the Gospel according to John. He said that he views our work with individuals who are severely depressed as a kind of spiritual healing, even though we are working with purely secular methods. This is especially true when we are working with individuals who appear to be paralyzed by depression, claiming they are unable even to get out of bed, people who bombard themselves with harsh criticisms, and feel hopeless and ashamed.

    Matt said that self-acceptance (accepting ourselves exactly as we are) is one of the many tools we use, and that he (Matt) loves to think about the ripple effects of our work, which not only transforms the lives of individuals who awaken from their depressive trance, but this also has enormous positive effects on their friends and family as well.

    He asks, "How do we achieve this?"

    I (David) loved hearing from Rhonda and Matt on spirituality in TEAM, and pointed out many areas of overlap between TEAM and the Christian theology I was raised on, since my dad was a Lutheran minister. For example,

    1. The TEAM concept that you do not, and cannot, earn genuine feelings of worthwhileness or self-esteem through achievement. In other words, your worth is not your work, but something you give yourself unconditionally. In Christianity, we are sometimes taught that you cannot get to "heaven" through your good works. Enlightenment is a gift, a decision, and not something you have to earn.
    2. We also teach that humans are not purely good, but have a mixture of positive and negative motives, and that many people suffer because of guilt and regret about past errors or sins. When we are teaching the Acceptance Paradox, we are teaching a "letting go" of the inner abuse we endure from that relentless, critical voice in our brains, labeling us and telling us that we aren't good enough, we're "bad," we're "losers," and so forth, using powerful tools like the Externalization of Voices.

    In Christianity, this message is delivered in my ritualized ways, including the act of communion, confessing your sins and accepting the blood and body of Christ who "died for your sins." This is just another way of sending the message that it is okay to accept the fact that you are flawed and fallen, and yet still worthy of God's love—and your own love!

    1. In the interpersonal TEAM model for troubled relationships, the entire emphasis on pinpointing your own role in a problem with a friend, colleague, loved one, or stranger, instead of casting blame on the other person and feeling angry and morally superior. My Relationship Journal is a tool designed to facilitate this process very rapidly.

    In Christianity there are many messages about taking out the moat in your own eye, as well as the idea that when you blame others, and cast judgment, you condemn yourself.

    1. There is a strong emphasis on humility and accountability in TEAM-CBT. This often comes up during positive reframing; we talk about how the patient's self-criticisms are often an expression of high standards, honesty, and humility, and that these are beautiful qualities that are real, important, and powerful.

    And this similar, it seems to me, to the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus talked about "blessed are the meek, for they shall be called the Children of God."

    There are many, many additional areas of overlap, and many books have been written on this subject. During the podcast I provided examples of how the spiritual and psychological realms can meet and reinforce each other at the moment the patient recovers and discovers their own enlightenment. I am proud to have developed TEAM-CBT, and it is clearly infused with many spiritual dimensions, even though it is entirely secular.

    I mentioned that I was born on a Sunday morning, and my dad said it was the only time he was unable to preach his sermon. He was too excited, especially since my parents had become reconciled to the notion that they could not have children. He called me David Dean Burns, and hoped that someday I would become D.D. Burns, D.D. DD is an honorary degree in theology, and he (and everyone) assumed that I would one day be a minister, like was. He was L.C. Burns, DD. (Lyle Charles Burns)

    I went in a different direction, but have kind of returned to my original calling, though threw an unexpected route, and hope you have all enjoyed our "sermons" this morning.

    I would add that I would never impose my beliefs or spiritual orientation on any patient, and only ask about the integration of their successful recovery with their own religious beliefs AFTER they have recovered, so as to add a deeper level of meaning to the work and transformation that they experienced. We only emphasized the Jewish and Christian approaches to spirituality because that was our upbringing, but the spiritual "discoveries" during TEAM treatment are actually compatible with nearly all, if not all, religions and spiritual paths.

    Warmly,

    Rhonda, Matt, and David


    407: Do You Have a "Self?" Jul 29, 2024
    Show notes

    Special Announcement #1 Attend the Legendary Summer Intensive Featuring Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt August 8 - 11. 2024 Learn Advanced TEAM-CBT skills Heal yourself, heal your patients First Intensive in 5 years! It will knock your socks off! Limited Seating--Act Fast Click for registration / more information! Sadly, this workshop is a training program which will be limited to therapists and mental health professionals and graduate students in a mental health field Apologies, but therapists have complained when non-therapists have attended our continuing education training programs. This is partly because of the intimate nature of the small group exercises and the personal work the therapists may do during the workshop. Certified coaches and counselors are welcome to attend. Special Announcement #2 Here's some GREAT news! The Feeling Great App is now available in both app stores (IOS and Android) and is for therapists and the general public, and you can take a ride for free! Check it Today's Podcast Practical Philosophy Month Part 2, Do Humans have "Selves"? This is our second podcast in our Practical Philosophy Month. Last week, in our first episode, we focused on the "free will" question. As humans, we all feel like we have "free will," but is it just an illusion, especially if all our actions are the result of the physical processes in our brains and the laws of the universe? The Bible certainly dealt with this in the book of Genesis, where we learn that the first humans, Adam and Eve, were given a wonderful Garden of Eden to live in, but they had to choose whether or not to obey God's rule NOT to eat the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They chose to eat the fruit, implying that humans have free choice. But the philosophical arguments rage on. In today's podcast, we are joined by two beloved and brilliant colleagues, Drs. Matthew May and Fabrice Nye, as we explore the question of whether or not the "self" exists. We all feel like we have a "self," but is this real or just an illusion? When you try to define your "self," you may run into problems. For example, you might think that the "self" has to be the part of us that does not change from moment to moment, and is always 'the same." For example, I might think back on my childhood and feel convinced that I was the "same David Burns" then that I am now. And, if you are religious, you might also be comforted by the idea that your "self" is the same as your "soul," and that you will therefore live on after you die. This concept of a "soul" is a core belief in many religions. But are we fooling ourselves? And what was the Buddha thinking about 2,500 years ago when we talked about enlightenment as resulting from the "Great Death" of the "self." He seemed to be hinting that something wonderful can happen when you give up the idea that you have a "self." In the original draft of my book, Feeling Great, I had a chapter on entitled, "Do you need a "self?" Join the Grateful Dead." I tried to persuade readers that the existence of a "self" is nonsense, based on the philosophy of Ludwig Wittgenstein in his famous book, Philosophical Investigations. But readers found the chapter so upsetting that I decided, on their urging, to delete it from the manuscript, which I did. My goal is not to disturb people, but to provide a path to joy and to loving connections with others. But to this day, I still get emails from people asking me to offer that chapter, or to deal more deeply with this concept of the "self" vs "no self" in a podcast. So, here is my attempt today. I will start with my own take, and then summarize some of the views about the self that were expressed by Fabrice, Matt, and Rhonda during the show. Here's my thinking. There are many key questions you could ask about the concept of the "self?" including: Do we have a "self?" And if so, what is it? Does the first question even make sense? I'm sure you would agree that if a question doesn't make sense, then it isn't a "real" question, and there really isn't anything to talk about. Then we can just stop feeling frustrated and perplexed, and move on with our lives. That is the precise position that the late Wittgenstein would probably have taken. He stated that words have no ultimate or "true" meaning outside of the various contexts in which we use them in daily life. Most words have many meanings, because they are used in different ways, and you can find most of the meanings in any dictionary. So, if you think of the word, "game," you will quickly realize that it does not have one "true" or essential meaning. It can mean a sports competition, with two teams competing against each, like soccer. But you can have two teams competing in some way other than a sport. And you don't even need two teams to have a "game." For example, some games are played by one individual, like solitaire with a deck of cards. Or you can think about the "dating game," or refer to "game birds," or a "game boxer." In short, there is not some single "correct" meaning to the word, "game." Some uses have overlapping meanings, and some uses do not overlap at all with other uses. So, there is no point in trying to figure out if "games exist," or what the ultimate or essential meaning is of the word, "game." Now, how do we use the word, "self," and what does it mean in each context? You might tell your child to behave themself. This simply means that they are misbehaving and will be punished if they don't behave more politely. You do not have to tell the child that their "self" also has to behave better, because that would be meaningless. We already told the child to change their behavior. You could ask friends, as I did this morning, if they are planning to join me on the Sunday hike. Two of them confirmed and said that "they" would join me today on our hike. I did have to ask them if they would be bringing their "selves," because I just do not know what that would mean! They already told me they're coming to the hike. (They did come and we had a lot of fun.) In my extremely challenging freshman English class at Amherst College, we had to write two or three papers per week on odd topics. The teachers were relentlessly critical in their feedback, and would nearly always point out that we sounded incredibly phony and need to find our true voices, which came from our real selves, as opposed to the false fronts we often used to try to impress people. Almost every student got dumped on constantly! The professors weren't referring to some metaphysical "true selves." They were just referring to the fact that our writing didn't sound natural, compelling, or vulnerable, and so forth. Our writing was, for the most part, an enormous turn-off. Most of us never could figure out quite what that class was all about, but it was useful as I became more sensitive to the "tone" or "voice" in any writing. I would have to concede that it was a sobering but helpful class. But they were not referring to some mystical "true self" we had to find. They just wanted us to stop writing in such a sucky way! So here is my point, which you might "not get." When you keep the word, "self," in the context of everyday life, it is obvious what it means, and it never refers to some metaphysical "thing" that we could "have" or "not have." It is just a vague, abstract concept that is devoid of meaning when it's all by itself. A "self," just like "free will," is not some "thing" that we might, or might not, have. The question, "Does the self exist," according to Wittgenstein (or his big fan David) has no meaning and so we can just ignore it. It's not a real question. It is, as Wittgenstein was fond of saying, "language that's out of gear." Now, does this discussion have anything to do with emotional problems, or TEAM therapy? It absolutely does. That's because nearly all depression results from some version of "I'm not good enough," including: I'm inferior. I'm a loser. I'm a "hopeless case." I'm a failure. I'm unlovable. I'm a bad parent. I'm defective. And so forth. If you buy into these "self" condemning proclamations, thinking that they mean something, you'll probably feel depressed, ashamed, inadequate, hopeless, and more. As you can probably see, all these self-critical thoughts contain tons of cognitive distortions, like All-or-Nothing Thinking, Overgeneralization, Labeling, Mental Filtering, Emotional Reasoning, Self-Blame, Hidden Shoulds, and more And to put it in a nutshell, they ALL involve the belief that you have a "self" that's broken, or simply not "good enough." And all of those statements are meaningless. My goal in therapy is NOT to persuade you that you ARE worthwhile, or "a winner," or a "good" parent, but rather to show you how to let go of these meaningless but painful ways of belittling yourself. I might use techniques like Empathy, Positive Reframing, Explain the Distortions, Let's Define Terms, Be Specific, the Double Standard Technique, the Externalization of Voices, the Downward Arrow, and many more. That's because the VERY moment you suddenly "see" that these kinds of statements are both untrue and unfair, and you stop believing them, your feelings will instantly change. So, you could say that TEAM really IS a "Wittgensteinian" therapy. And when people ask me how to develop better self-esteem, I would not try to get them to discover how to have some magical and wonderful "thing" called self-esteem, because that concept is just as nonsensical as the concept of a "self." You might say that "self-esteem," if you want to use the term, is more about what you DO. And there are two things you can do if you want to change the way you feel. First, you can stop beating up on yourself with hostile criticisms like the bulleted statements listed above, and talk to yourself in the same encouraging way you might talk to a dear friend or loved one who was hurting. And second, you can treat yourself in a loving way, in just the same way you might treat your best friend who was coming for a visit. In other words, you can do nice things for yourself. The day my first book, "Feeling Good," was finally published, my editor called me with some bad news. She told me that the publisher, William Morrow and Company, loses money on 9 out of 10 of the books they publish, so they decide which ones are most likely to sell, and those are the only ones they'll promote. The rest of the books go on a "loser list," and the company does little or nothing to promote them. She said my book was #1 on their "loser list," since the president of the company felt it had no commercial potential, and that very few people would be interest in a long book on depression. She added that the one thing they did do was to send my book to ten popular magazines for first serial rights. That means they get to publish an excerpt from your book as an article, so that stirs up some media interest in your book. Sadly, she said that all ten had turned them down. She said that I'd have to be in charge of any further marketing of my book, so I asked what I should do. She said to call all ten magazines right away and persuade them to change their minds. In a panic, I called them all, including Ladies' Home Journal, Reader's Digest, and on and on. Every magazine said the same thing—they did not want my book, had turned it down, had zero interest in it, and to please top calling since authors shouldn't call them and they considered it a form of phone harassment since they'd already made a decision. Yikes! No fun! When I jogged home from the train station that night, I shouted, "You're a loser, you're a failure." That didn't sound so good so then I shouted, "No, you're not! You'll figure out how to make it happen! Just keep plugging away." That sounded a lot more loving, so when I got home, I told my wife that the book at just been published and that I'd been turned down by all ten magazines for serial rights, and the publisher decided not to spend any money on marketing or advertising, so we needed to go out and celebrate. She why we would celebrate? I said, "You don't need to celebrate when you win, because you already feel great. But when you lose, that's when you need to celebrate, because you're feeling down. So, tonight we'll celebrate!" We went out for a fancy dinner and celebrated and had fun. And the rest, they say, is history. I just kept trying and getting turned down by newspapers, radio stations, television programs, and more. But eventually, the tide started to turn. To date, Feeling Good has sold more than 5 million copies and it achieved best-seller status. And the reason was that researchers discovered that the book actually had antidepressant properties, so excitement about it spread by word of mouth. I am hopeful that the new Feeling Great App will help even more people. Fabrice made some interesting and wise comments on the notion of the "self." He said that the idea that we have a "self" is a sense that we nearly all have. Some people feel like the "self" that is located somewhere behind the eyes or in the middle of the head. But, he emphasizes, there is no such "thing" as a "self." He has quoted someone who has "said it all," but the statement only makes sense IF you "get it!" Here's the quote: "No Self? No Problem!" This is actually the title of a book by Chris Niebauer, PhD, and the subtitle is How Neuropsychology Is Catching Up to Buddhism. If you want to check it out, here's a link to it on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/No-Self-Problem-Neuropsychology-Catching/dp/1938289978 Fabrice emphasized that the concept of "self" is "nebulous." He asked, "Is there a 'David'?" He explained: You wouldn't be able to prove this in court. Well, you could show ID, but that would not be proof. Where does the information on the ID come from? Birth certificate? Who wrote the information on the birth certificate? Probably some doctor back in 1942. And where did he get that information from? Probably some caregiver said "Write 'David' here." Was that from a credible source? Not at all. That info was made up on the spot! Now, you can say that there's a "sense" of a David going around, and that there are some patterns that show signs of "David-ness," but there is no "David." Matt added that your body is not your "self." When you break your arm, you don't say that you have broken a part of your "self." You just say, "I broke my arm." Rhonda raised the question of whether the "self" is just the same as "consciousness" or "awareness." Someone in our group added that the "self" is what we DO, and not what we ARE. And, of course, what we are doing is constantly changing from moment to moment. My understanding of all of this is that once you let go of the notion that you have a "self," you will n…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    406: Do Humans Have "Free Will?" Jul 22, 2024
    Show notes

    Special Announcement #1 Attend the Legendary Summer Intensive Featuring Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt August 8 - 11. 2024 Learn Advanced TEAM-CBT skills Heal yourself, heal your patients First Intensive in 5 years! It will knock your socks off! Limited Seating--Act Fast Click for registration / more information! Sadly, this workshop is a training program which will be limited to therapists and mental health professionals and graduate students in a mental health field Apologies, but therapists have complained when non-therapists have attended our continuing education training programs. This is partly because of the intimate nature of the small group exercises and the personal work the therapists may do during the workshop. Certified coaches and counselors are welcome to attend. Special Announcement #2 Here's some GREAT news! The Feeling Great App is now available in both app stores (IOS and Android) and is for therapists and the general public, and you can take a ride for free! Check it Today's Podcast Practical Philosophy Month Part 1, The Free Will Problem Welcome to Practical Philosophy month. For the next five weeks, we will discuss some of the most popular and challenging problems in philosophy, such as these: Do human beings have free will? Or is free will just an illusion? Do human beings have a "self?" Or is the "self" just another illusion? Is it possible to be more or less "worthwhile?" Are some humans "better" or "worse" than others? Does God exist? Is the universe "real" or "one"? What's the meaning of life? What is "self-esteem"? How does it differ from self-confidence? What's the difference between conditional and unconditional self-esteem? What's the difference between self-esteem and self-acceptance? What do you have to do to experience joy and feelings of worthwhileness? We will try to complete the list in five weeks, so some weeks we may include more than one topic, since many of these topics are related to one another. Rhonda and David will be joined by our beloved Dr. Matt May, a regular on our Ask David episodes, and for the first and second sessions we will be joined by our beloved Dr. Fabrice Nye, who created and hosted the Feeling Good Podcasts several years ago. Each week, you will also hear about the linkage between these philosophical dilemmas, and emotional problems, like depression, anxiety, and relationship conflicts. For example, nearly all depressed individuals believe that they aren't sufficiently "worthwhile." I see my goal as a psychiatrist not as helping people feel "more worthwhile," but rather showing people, if interested, how to give up this notion entirely and become free of certain kinds of damaging judgments of the "self" and others. You will also learn how these types of philosophical problems continue to play a large role in psychiatry and psychology, including the DSM5 diagnostic system. For example, is the diagnosis of "Generalized Anxiety Disorder" a true "mental disorder" that you could "have" or "not have?" And might some or most of the so-called "mental disorders" listed in the DSM be based on faulty philosophical / logical thinking? And if many or most of the "mental disorders" are based on goofy, faulty thinking, is there a more productive and effective way to think about most emotional problems? And how did we get into this mess in the first place? Worrying certainly exists, and we all worry at times. But how much or how often do you have to worry before you develop or have a "mental disorder" called "Generalized Anxiety Disorder" that can be diagnosed like any medical illness and treated with drugs? Or is "Generalized Anxiety Disorder" (and hundreds of other "mental disorders in the DSM" based on a certain kind of nonsensical thinking? And if so, why? What is the goofy, faulty thinking in the DSM? And are there some "mental disorders" that are valid and real? We HAVE touched on all of these themes in previous podcasts, but I thought it would be nice to put them all in one place and bring in a variety of "solutions," controversies, and experts. I David, will often represent (hopefully, and to the best of my ability) the thinking of Ludwig Wittgenstein, as expressed in his famous book, Philosophical Investigation, published in 1950 following his death. That book consists of a series of numbered brief essays (a few paragraphs each) that were based on notes found in a metal box under his dormitory room at Cambridge University. He'd written these in preparation for his weekly seminars in his dormitory room. Wittgenstein, although now widely regarded as one of the greatest philosophers of all time, did not think he knew enough to teach in a classroom. In fact, because of his feelings of depression and self-doubt, he sadly never tried to publish anything when he was alive. Wittgenstein's philosophy also played an indirect but significant role in the evolution of several modern psychotherapies. His philosophy created new ways of thinking that gave rise to the work of Dr. Albert Ellis, the famous New York psychologist who created Rational Emotive Therapy during the 1950s. Ellis emphasized that the "Should Statements" that trigger so much guilt, shame, depression, anxiety, and rage are based on illogical thinking. He might often say, "Where is it written that people or the world "should" be the way you want them to be?" Of course, this idea actually traces back to the Greek Stoic philosophers like Epictetus and Marcus Aurelius. Wittgenstein's thinking also seems to have played a role in the thinking of Dr. Aaron Beck, who adapted the work of Ellis and called his version of the "Cognitive Therapy." Beck emphasized many thinking errors, like All-or-Nothing Thinking, and Overgeneralization, that trigger depression, anxiety, and more. Sadly, Wittgenstein struggled with severe depression and loneliness throughout his life, and three of his four brothers tragically died by suicide. Wittgenstein also had prolonged periods of time when he considered suicide. It is also sad that he did not know how to apply his brilliant philosophical breakthroughs to his own negative thinking, but that application of his work did not develop at the time he was still alive. Part of Wittgenstein's depression was related, I believe, to the fact that very few people, including the most famous philosophers of Europe, could understand his thinking when he was alive. From time to time, I think he glimpsed the enormous importance of his work; but I believe that he also had prolonged moments of self-doubt when he thought his work was of little value at best. To be as correct as possible, Wittgenstein did write a manuscript called Tractatus Logico Philosophicus as a young man, although he never tried to publish it. He wrote it when he was a prisoner of war. He thought this book solved all the problems of philosophy, which had plagued him since he was a child, and he felt great relief. He sent a copy of his manuscript to Bertrand Russell, who was a famous British philosopher. Bertrand Russell was incredibly impressed with the Tractatus and distributed it to many European philosophers. Bertrand Russell thought it might be the greatest book in the history of philosophy, and a number of the 20th century philosophical movements including Logical Positivism, were inspired by that book. However, Wittgenstein left the field of philosophy, thinking that his work was done, and that he'd found the solutions he was looking for. He tried teaching grammar school for a while, but was fired because he became frustrated and violent toward some of his students. He also tried to survive as a fisher in a Norwegian fishing town, but was not successful at that, either, because he didn't know much about fishing, much less supporting yourself through fishing. One day, he learned that a brilliant Swedish economics student had found a flaw in his Tractatus, and his inner turmoil about the puzzling problems of philosophy flared up again. He decided to return to the study of philosophy. He applied to be an advanced undergraduate at Cambridge University, but when someone in the admissions office spotted his application, they recognized his name and showed his application to Bertrand Russell, who had been wondering what had become of the young man who once sent him such a brilliant manuscript. Russell, who was the chair of the department of philosophy, said to being Wittgenstein to his office immediately for an interview. Russell explained that he would have to reject Wittgenstein's application to be an undergraduate at Cambridge University. Deeply disappointed, Wittgenstein asked why. Russell told him it was because he was already recognized as the greatest philosopher of the 20th century. Bertrand proposed that if Wittgenstein would agree to skip college and graduate school, they would immediately award him a PhD for the manuscript he'd sent to Russell years earlier. Russell also offered him a full professor ship in the department of philosophy. Wittgenstein protested and said he needed to study philosophy again, because of the error in Tractatus, and that he didn't know anything, and definitely could not teach in a classroom. Bertrand Russell insisted, and they finally struck a deal where Wittgenstein would agree to be a professor of philosophy but all he would have to do was to have a conversation session with anybody who wanted to talk to him at his dormitory room once a week. Wittgenstein accepted and met for years with students and famous philosophers who came from around Europe to crowd into his dormitory room for his weekly seminars, and he began to shape a radically different philosophical approach from the one he'd described earlier in his Tractatus. He was determined to find a new way to solve all the problems of philosophy. And, to my way of thinking, along with those few who really understand him, he was successful. But he was often frustrated because, so few understood him. This was unfortunate, because what he was saying was incredibly simple and basic, and it was pretty similar to, if not identical to, the thinking of the Buddha 2500 years earlier. The Buddha apparently had the same problem—almost nobody could understand what he was trying to say when he was still alive. They couldn't "get it" when he was talking about the so-called "Great Death" of the "self," or talking about the path to enlightenment. The Buddha's frustration resulted from the exact same problem Wittgenstein encountered 2500 years later. The Buddha was saying something that was extremely simple, obvious, and basic—and yet, it was rumored that of his more than 100,000 followers when he was alive, only three actually "got it" and experienced enlightenment. When I read Philosophical Investigations my senior year in college, it was rumored that only seven people in the world understood what Wittgenstein was trying to say. Wittgenstein's dream was that philosophy students would "get" his thinking and give up philosophy when they realized that most if not all philosophical problems are sheer nonsense. He wanted them to do something practical and real in the world instead of studying philosophy. He was verry disappointed when his favorite student, Norman Malcolm (one of the seven who "got it,") pursued an illustrious career teaching philosophy in America at Cornell University. I always wished I could have known Wittgenstein when he was alive, so I could have told him this: I loved you, too, and I got it after several months of confusion, trying to understand your Philosophical Investigations, but eventually understood it with the help of your student, Norman Malcolm. His book about you was very inspiring. And that's why I left philosophy for something more practical in the world. I decided at the last minute to go to medical school to become a psychiatrist instead of philosophy graduate school. Hopefully, I am doing something that you might be proud of! But oddly enough, your thinking has also influenced my approach to people who feel depressed and worthless. They are also under a kind of destructive "enchantment," thinking that there is some such "thing" as a more or less worthwhile human being! And this is a major cause of depression and anxiety and feelings of worthlessness and hopelessness. I wonder if you, Wittgenstein, ever felt that you weren't "good enough" when you were feeling down. hopeless and suicidal? I sure wish I could have helped you with that! If you want to understand Wittgenstein's work, the best book in my opinion is Norman Malcolm's moving and affectionate tribute to his beloved teacher, entitled "Ludwig Wittgenstein: A Memoir." It's a short moving tribute to his beloved teacher, and tears go down my cheeks every time I read it, or even think about it. If you ever visit my office here at home, you'll find that memoir proudly sitting on my bookshelf, with a handsome photo of Wittgenstein on the cover. Toward the end of his life, Wittgenstein appears to have become more or less homeless, and he died from prostate cancer. His doctor said he could live in his home, where he was befriended by the doctor's wife in his final days. His dying words were, "Tell them that I had a wonderful life." He died on April 29, 1951, just a few hours before my wife was born in Palo Alto, California. Surprisingly, she is the only person I've ever met who understood Wittgenstein's thinking entirely the first time I explained it to her. She "already knew" what Wittgenstein, the greatest philosophical genius of the 20th century, spent a lifetime figuring out! Reincarnation is pretty "out there," and fairly silly, to my way of thinking, but sometimes it can be fun to think about it! Here is my understanding of how the thinking of the "later Wittgenstein" actually developed. His first book, which is nearly impossible to understand, was called the Tractatus Logico Philosophicus. It is a series of numbered propositions, which he compared to climbing up a ladder, rung by rung, as you read the book until you got to the roof at the top of the ladder. Then you could throw your ladder away and give up philosophical thinking, since he thought his book contained the solution to all the problems of philosophy that had tormented him since childhood, as mentioned previously. The philosophy of language in the Tractatus is based on the thinking of Aristotle and Plato, who thought that the function of language was to name things that exist in the real world. Plato's idea was that our real world consists of imperfect examples of a "Platonic Reality" which consisted of "perfect" representations of everything. So, for example, Plato believed there could be a perfect "table," a perfect "lamp," and so forth. In other words, he thought there was an ideal essence to the concept of a "table." And, I suppose, there might also be a "perfect" version of you! The early Wittgenstein also thought that the logic inherent in our sentences reflected the logic inherent in an external reality. If that doesn't make much sense to you, join the club! But that's kind of what Plato and Aristotle were promoting, at least in my (David's) understanding. When Wittgenstein's Tractatus was debunked, he was devastated, and desperately wanted to find another way to solve the problems of philosophy, since they started tormenting him again. It was much like a r…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    405: Ask David: Why does my father try to control me? Why do women ghost me? And more! Jul 15, 2024
    Show notes

    Special Announcement #1 Attend the Legendary Summer Intensive Featuring Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt August 8 - 11. 2024 Learn Advanced TEAM-CBT skills Heal yourself, heal your patients First Intensive in 5 years! It will knock your socks off! Limited Seating--Act Fast Click for registration / more information! Sadly, this workshop is a training program which will be limited to therapists and mental health professionals and graduate students in a mental health field Apologies, but therapists have complained when non-therapists have attended our continuing education training programs. This is partly because of the intimate nature of the small group exercises and the personal work the therapists may do during the workshop. Certified coaches and counselors are welcome to attend. Special Announcement #2 Here's some GREAT news! The Feeling Great App is now available in both app stores (IOS and Android) and is for therapists and the general public, and you can take a ride for free! Check it Today's Ask David Podcast We have lots of great questions today. The answers in the show notes were written prior to the podcast, and the answers in the live podcast as we discussed these questions may differ somewhat or amplify the written materials in these show notes. We love your questions. Remember to send them to David@feelinggood.com. Ask David Questions for Today Bosley asks: My father can be very critical of my plans for the future. What's the best way to respond to him? Willie asks: I have a dating questions. Why do women keep ghosting me? Should they be more willing to work out differences with the Five Secrets of Communication? 1. Bosley asks: My father can be very critical of my plans for the future. What's the best way to respond to him? "To explain somewhat concisely, I just want to move to the nearest major city (Seattle) since I feel really really happy there. I also love volunteering for a specific organization and have some community there that I care about, and I feel very isolated having been away from for months. I'm willing to carry the load of all the work I would need to do to make it happen, and do a business training my dad wants me to complete. He has other thoughts. He looks down on volunteering and his thoughts on friends are simply that I can make new ones anyway. He is very aggressive and intimidating in his arguments, full of insults and many factually incorrect statements that are difficult to disarm on the fly. He shoots down the idea upon mention, so it's difficult to collaborate to find mutually beneficial solutions. He is a successful businessman, despite recent financial issues, and has a sort of strict plan for me that he has wanted me to follow, although I really don't feel this conflicts with his goals to have me run things in the future. I'm just worried since he has a long past of being emotionally abusive and of going back on his word. Plus, I just want some autonomy. In the end, it's his way or the highway. He says "You keep scheming and going down a twisted path instead of doing what I tell you." David's reply I suggested he might complete the first four steps of the Relationship Journal so we could see how he's communicating with his dad. Here is Bosley's partially partially completed Relationship Journal (showing steps 1 to 4, but not 5.) Step 1 – S/he said: Write down exactly what the other person said. Be brief: You keep scheming and going down a twisted path instead of doing what I tell you! Step 2 – I said: Write down exactly what you said next. Be brief: What? Circle or bold the emotions S/HE might have been feeling Circle or bold the emotions YOU were feeling Sad, blue, depressed, down, unhappy Sad, blue, depressed, down, unhappy Anxious, worried, panicky, nervous, frightened Anxious, worried, panicky, nervous, frightened Guilty, remorseful, bad, ashamed Guilty, remorseful, bad, ashamed Inferior, worthless, inadequate, defective, incompetent Inferior, worthless, inadequate, defective, incompetent Lonely, unloved, unwanted, rejected, alone, abandoned Lonely, unloved, unwanted, rejected, alone, abandoned Embarrassed, foolish, humiliated, self-conscious Embarrassed, foolish, humiliated, self-conscious Hopeless, discouraged, pessimistic, despairing Hopeless, discouraged, pessimistic, despairing Frustrated, stuck, thwarted, defeated Frustrated, stuck, thwarted, defeated Angry, mad, resentful, annoyed, irritated, upset, furious Angry, mad, resentful, annoyed, irritated, upset, furious Other (specify) Other (specify) Step 3 – Good Vs. Bad Communication: Was your response an example of good or bad communication? Use the EAR Checklist to analyze what you wrote down in Step 2 Step 4 – Consequences: Did your response in Step 2 make the problem better or worse? Why? It probably made things worse. I came off dismissive, which probably confirmed for him that I automatically ignored any advice or direction that he gave me. I wasn't assertive in fear of escalating anger or just being shut down anyway, but that also maintains the status quo. I didn't, and typically don't, show a caring respectful attitude. This, I think, allows his anger to continue snowballing into more intensity. 2. Willie asks why women he's dating "ghost" him instead of working out the problems in the relationship using the techniques in your book, Feeling Good Together. Good morning, Dr. Burns! I hope you are doing well! I want to start off by saying that I love your books and they've played a massive role in changing my personality for the better. However, there is a question I struggle with. In feeling good together, you say that one can keep status quo, solve their problem, or walk away from a relationship. I lean very strongly on the side of always wanting to solve problems. However, at my age, most of girls I date err on the side of just walking away and this opens me up for unnecessary headache and pain. I don't know where to draw the line? My heart says that any two reasonable adults can always make a relationship work given that at least one wants to make things better and, unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case in my experiences. Your insight would be greatly appreciated! Thank you for taking the time! Best Regards, Willie David's reply Thank you, Willie, I'd love to use this as an Ask David question for one of the podcasts, if that's okay, using your first name or a fake name if you prefer. Here's the super short answer. I wrote a book on that exact topic called Intimate Connections. Essentially you probably need to learn a little more about how to "play the game" when dating. You'll see what this means when you read the book. Warmly, david Willie's Response: Good morning, Dr. Burns! Frankly, I was not expecting a response at all, much less as quick as it was. For this, I truly want to thank you for taking the time to do so. Secondly, it will be my honor if you do bring it up to your podcast. Please don't use my first name - I'd prefer staying anonymous. Please do let me know which podcast this will be so I can give it a listen as well. Lastly, thank you so much for referring me to your book. That will be my next read so I am super excited. If you have any other books which you believe are worth reading which will be beneficial in the dating world, corporate world, etc., please point me to those. I absolutely love your books and their effects on me have been immeasurable. Thank you! Willie I wrote back and suggested we could use the fake name Willie, as he wanted to remain anonymous, and he responded: Now that you say, Willie is definitely sexier! Question: when are you planning on doing the next episode with this question in it? I wouldn't want to miss it. Here was my response to "Willie." We'll just read your question, and then provide opinions. My career in private practice has a majority of single individuals who were trying unsuccessfully to connect in the dating world. That's why I wrote that book, which is intensely personal as I was the biggest loser of all for a long time because I was a minister's son and never learned how to "play the game" or be a "bad boy." But I learned from a friend who was a "hustler" when I was in medical school. I learned a tremendous amount, including that there is a game-playing phase in dating, and a time to be more serious, open and vulnerable. The biggest mistake men make is trying to get too serious when they should be playing the game. What's the game? Well, you'd know if you ever had or loved a cat. If you chase them enthusiastically, you force them to run away. You have to learn how to make them chase you. Many men are stubborn about this, and lamely insist, "But I shouldn't have to play the game!" My answer would be, "You don't! Especially if you don't want to get laid and have lots of ladies chasing you!" Warmly, david Willie's response This is extremely valuable to me. I never knew that you come from a religious background and I do too so I do want to ask you some more questions / share my experience. One pattern I am noticing is that either Muslim ladies have a lot of religious trauma or they have very strict conservative values - usually a combination of both. In the modern world, I try using dating apps and might get matched with someone 2-3 states away so usually we would hop on a FaceTime and the topic of religion almost always comes up. And, due to differing opinions, they just walk away which deeply upsets me because they make the false assumption that humans are snapshots in time i.e., opinions / perspectives don't change. In fact, a personal experience I would like to share with you. I was in a relationship for 1.5 yrs (long distance) and it just ended 1-2 months ago. Our intention was always to get married. However, a few weeks before breaking up with me, she basically said "oh you don't pray and I cannot even imagine my future husband not praying etc etc" and she ended things with me on that. I even tried using the 5 methods of effective communication to acknowledge and validate her opinions while simultaneously sharing mine but she was dead set and did not even want to think about working on problems. How could I "play the game" in such instances or over long distances? David's response Hi Willie, The principles of dating are the same in all cultures for the most part, and one rule is "Never chase a distancer." So, when she switches to religion, you could use the listen skills subset of the Five Secrets, and buy in to what she's saying, WITHOUT arguing or presenting your own thinking. You can admire her, urge her to tell you more about her religious feelings and spiritual life, using liberal Thought and Feeling Empathy, and lots of Disarming Techniques, and Stroking, with Gentle Inquiry. You would NOT chase, or try to persuade, or argue, or defend yourself. Be totally admiring and other-centered at those times. If she says she wants to break up, you might say that you've been sensing some distance, and are relieved that she is doing that, because you, too, would like to date other women, but that the two of you can still be friends if she promises not to get romantically involved with you, and that you will be on the lookout for some really great guys she might want to date. This is a paradoxical approach, and it is an art form. And I can also tell you to date other women immediately, and the moment you find one you like better than her, she will find out, even if no one tells her, and she will likely want you back again. That's because of the Burns rule, which states: "People NEVER want what they CAN have; they ONLY want they CAN'T have!" Now, if you tell me this approach is phony, I would tell you that you're 200% right! And it's not only incredibly phony, it's amazingly effective! And a kinder word that "phony" might be to say that when someone starts pulling away, you have to switch into this style and strategic approach, and stop trying to be loving and sincere or logical, etc. Do NOT chase, simply open your hands and let go. It's the exact same strategy you might use to get close to a cat! Best, david Hi Willie, If you'd like, you can send me an example of what one of the Muslim ladies said to you, and exactly what you said next. Please select an interaction that didn't go well. Then I can analyze your response and suggest some alternative ways to respond in a dating situation. In fact, if you like, you can record it on the Relationship Journal that I've attached. Please fill in steps 1 through 4. Please do this right away as we record tomorrow. Best, david Hi Dr. Burns, I cannot even tell you how much these emails are already changing my outlook. I truly want to thank you for taking the time and responding to these. One thing that caught my eye is the paradoxical approach. I never thought about it. In my mind, I feel you should work on relationships / never let go but if letting go is working on it, then that is something I really need to do. I am attaching two copies of the Relationship journal. One dealing with the topic of drugs and one with prayer. One thing I will tell you is that I usually bring these topics up myself because, in my mind, I don't want to deceive anyone and get these big topics out of the way as early on as I can and I think I am making a mistake somewhere here. Thank you, again, for taking the time and responding to these emails! Looking forward to what you think about the topics of conflict I have been having! Best Willie 😉 Willie's Relationship Journal #1 Step 1 – S/he said: Write down exactly what the other person said. Be brief: Religion is super important to me. As a Muslim, I want my partner to pray 5x a day. Step 2 – I said: Write down exactly what you said next. Be brief: Religion is super important in today's day and age. It is a part of our culture and I definitely want to introduce my kids to it. However, I don't think that prayer in and of itself makes you religious - if anything, the more external your religion means the higher likelihood of hypocrisy. In my mind, everyone's religion is between them and god so the best you can carry is one that no one else even knows of - kind of like charity. Circle the emotions S/HE might have been feeling Circle the emotions YOU were feeling Sad, blue, depressed, down, unhappy Sad, blue, depressed, down, unhappy Anxious, worried, panicky, nervous, frightened Anxious, worried, panicky, nervous, frightened Guilty, remorseful, bad, ashamed Guilty, remorseful, bad, ashamed Inferior, worthless, inadequate, defective, incompetent Inferior, worthless, inadequate, defective, incompetent Lonely, unloved, unwanted, rejected, alone, abandoned Lonely, unloved, unwanted, rejected, alone, abandoned Embarrassed, foolish, humiliated, self-conscious Embarrassed, foolish, humiliated, self-conscious Hopeless, discouraged, pessimistic, despairing Hopeless, discouraged, pessimistic, despairing Frustrated, stuck, thwarted, defeated Frustrated, stuck, thwarted, defeated Angry, mad, resentful, annoyed, irritated, upset, furious Angry, mad, resentful, annoyed, irritated, upset, furious Other (specify) Other (specify) Taken for granted, unappreciated Willie's Relationship Journal #2 Step 1 – S/he said: Write down exactly what the other person said. Be brief: All kinds of drugs are bad and I don't want to date anyone who does them. Step 2 – I said: Write down exactly what you said next. Be brief: I strongly agree. Any kind of drug that can open you up to addiction can have a lot of negative effects and that's one of the reasons why I don…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    404: Raw Emotion: Dad, I let you down! Part 2 of 2 Jul 08, 2024
    Show notes

    A Riveting Story of Raw Emotion. . . "Dad, I let you down!" Part 2 of 2 Special Announcement The long awaited Feeling Great App is now available in app stores. IOS and android! Check it out. Take a free ride!

    And now, on with the exciting conclusion of the personal work Dr. Jill Levitt and I did with Chris, along with a fabulous followup interview you will hear at the end of the session.

    I hope you enjoyed the session with Chis, and hope you found it inspiring. His message of hope and joy could be helpful and inspiring to any of you who may be struggling, and feeling, as he was, that you're just "not good enough." His work is, of course, important from a psychological perspective, because it illustrates the powerful steps of TEAM in a sequence that brought Chris from the depths of despair to the peaks of enlightenment. However, as you will hear in the postscript dialogue, the work for sure takes on a spiritual and mystical quality for sure!

    When you hear Chris live during the follow-up interview at the end of Part 2 of this two-part podcast, you will not be disappointed!

    Postscript

    As I mentioned earlier, I was overjoyed when I learned that Chris had unexpectedly changed his mind and offered us the chance to publish his personal work and provide a follow-up recording of how he's doing now.

    Here's my email to him just prior to the follow-up recording.

    Hi Chris,

    I'm assuming that Rhonda will coordinate this and she has us scheduled for this Friday, I believe. When it is 4 PM in your time zone, what time is it in our time zone? Are you two hours later?

    I just reviewed my chart notes from a year or so ago, and it will be terrific to reconnect with you. I deeply appreciate the chance to share your session with our many listeners, as it is full of raw emotion and is riveting. You are making a super strong statement to the world, to my way of thinking, and it takes incredible courage to say, "This is me! I am very real, and sometimes very raw!"

    I think many people suffer due to thinking that everyone else is somehow "better" than they are, and that they are somehow "not good enough." That is perhaps the main theme I hear when doing clinical work, and that includes my work with mental health professionals who are equally vulnerable to this kind of thinking.

    What triggered your decision to go public, so to speak. And how might this impact your students, and their parents, and so forth?

    Hopefully, we can chat this Friday about those and any other questions or topics that touch or interest you. It will be great to get caught up on your past year!

    If Jill or Rhonda want to add your thoughts, please do! To me, this is a very significant occasion to have the chance to connect with you, Chris, again! The work you did is among the most powerful and impactful ever in my memory, although every time we do live work it is pretty incredible to my way of thinking, especially when people become "real," whatever that means!

    Humans have a dark side, to be sure to my way of thinking, but something incredibly beautiful and amazing can emerge.

    I am babbling so will stop. But I am so excited to talk to you again, Chris!

    Warmly, david

    Thank you for listening, and please let us know what you think.

    if you are a therapist, and want to learn how to do this, consider attending the summer intensive from August 8 to 11, on line, or in person at the South San Francisco Conference Center (ten minutes from the SF airport.) See the details and a link below, or go to www.cbtintensive.com.

    Chris, Rhonda, Jill, and David

    Click for registration / more information!

    403: Raw Emotion: Dad, I let you down! Part 1 of 2 Jul 01, 2024
    Show notes

    A Riveting Story of Raw Emotion. . . "Dad, I let you down!" Special Announcement The long awaited Feeling Great App is now available in app stores. IOS and android! Check it out. Take a free ride!

    And now, on with today's podcast!

    Part 1 of 2

    Our work with Chris started with this email:

    Hi David and Jill,

    I am 40 years old and have never been in a relationship. I've only had a handful of sexual experiences.

    I used to carry a lot of shame around this, but have done some work on myself, have more or less come to terms with where I'm at, and actually really enjoy my life and am pretty happy most of the time. However, I recently developed some strong feelings towards a coworker, and this led me to re-evaluate my stance on being single.

    The DML (LINK) details an incident from last week concerning this coworker. I haven't had extensive interactions with her and she works at a different site. Our clinical team meets twice monthly for online zoom meetings. She recommended a book to the team a few months ago, I read the book and enjoyed it, and was hoping to meet up with her and talk about it sometime. I was feeling a little terrified and didn't know if it was the right thing to do, but ultimately sent her an email asking if she'd like to speak with me about the book sometime.

    She politely declined the invitation. The daily mood log documents the hour or two immediately after I sent the email, as well as some of the thoughts that happened after I received her reply.

    There were a lot of negative thoughts, so I only included a few. There were also a number of hidden thoughts/beliefs that occurred to me over the last few days, which I have not included.

    It seems worth noting that for 2-3 hours after I sent the email, I experienced a lot of emotional turmoil. However, at 4pm when I got off work, from the long drive home until I went to bed, I was in a euphoric state. I was happy about what I did, how I responded to the rejection, and was optimistic about my future. I was working out at the gym and had a hard time keeping a smile off my face.

    I went to bed feeling great, but woke up in the middle of the night and felt terrible again, the painful sting of rejection kept me from sleeping. Since then, I've mostly felt just fine about it, only a few brief moments of really feeling that sting and they don't last long.

    My goal isn't to necessarily get into a relationship or have more sex; it's to feel more confident in my interactions with women. After being rejected, I think 15 seconds of agony is enough, no need for more than that. In the past, when I've developed strong feelings towards a woman, I notice that I am prone to both negative and positive distortions, some version of:

      • "It's the end of the world if she isn't attracted to me," or
      • "She's perfect for me; there is no one else like her," or
      • "Sex with a beautiful woman will complete my life, or completely fulfill me".

    I think I'd be better off without these distortions, but find the positive distortions to be somewhat addictive. They also make it hard for me to let go and move on. I still feel somewhat attached to this woman and haven't been able to let go and move on.

    Also, I want to note that there are a few experiences from high school that really impacted my sexuality, relationship with women, and probably inform some core beliefs on these subjects that have recently come to surface. I'm not sure how much to share about this or whether it's even necessary to, but I suppose that could be addressed in the empathy phase on Tuesday.

    One other thing that I didn't include in the DML, is when I'm in that negative state, sometimes I have intense thoughts directed at me that come in the form of the second person, like

      • You're a piece of shit.
      • I fucking hate you.
      • Cut your throat
      • You don't deserve to be alive.
      • I'll fucking kill you.

    I don't really believe these thoughts, but they do make me sad.

    Hope this all makes sense, let me know if you have questions or if I'm missing something. Looking forward to working with you.

    Thanks,

    Chris

    This email led to personal work with Chris in our Tuesday TEAM-CBT training group, roughly one year ago. Dr. Jill Levitt, the Director of Training at the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California, was my co-therapist. It was one of the rawest and most riveting sessions that I can recall.

    Here is the Daily Mood Log he sent, along with his Daily Mood Log:

    Daily Mood Log

    Due to the intensely personal, explosive revelations Chris shared with us during his session, he decided he did not want us to publicize his work as a podcast, which was totally understandable. Our highest priority is always the peace, safety, confidentiality, and well-being of the people we work with.

    However, roughly a year later, Chris contacted us and said he'd changed his mind, which was fantastic news. He said he'd changed his mind because he had a relapse, and decided to listen to the recording of the work you're about to hear. He said it was extremely helpful, and so he decided to let go and share it with the world.

    I think you will find his personal work, published as usual as two consecutive podcasts without editing, to be mind-blowing, jaw-dropping, intensely inspiring and moving.

    One word of caution is that his voice is soft and at times difficult to hear. We decide to publish it in spite of this because of the overwhelming power of his work. We are now setting up a professional quality recording studio and hope to record more sessions for you in the highest possible video and audio quality so we can bring you more inspiring Feeling Good Podcasts as well as live therapy sessions.

    In the meantime, here is part 1 of our work with Chris. Next week, you'll hear part 2.

    Thanks so much for listening today!

    Chris, Rhonda, and David

    End of Part 1

    Thank you for listening. Tune in next week for the exciting conclusion of our work with Chris!

    Chris, Rhonda, Jill, and David


    402: Ask David: Unfairness; Erasing Depression with Lasers; TEAM in the UK; Most Powerful Technique Jun 24, 2024
    Show notes

    Ask David Unfairness Worthwhileness Erasing Depression with Lasers TEAM in the UK What's the Most Powerful Technique? We have lots of great questions today. The answers in the show notes were written prior to the podcast, and the answers in the live podcast as we discussed these questions may differ somewhat or amplify the written materials in these show notes. We love your questions. Remember to send them to David@feelinggood.com. Special Announcement Attend the Legendary Summer Intensive Featuring Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt August 8 - 11. 2024 Learn Advanced TEAM-CBT skills Heal yourself, heal your patients First Intensive in 5 years! It will knock your socks off! Limited Seating--Act Fast Click for registration / more information! Sadly, this workshop is a training program which will be limited to therapists and mental health professionals and graduate students in a mental health field Apologies, but therapists have complained when non-therapists have attended our continuing education training programs. This is partly because of the intimate nature of the small group exercises and the personal work the therapists may do during the workshop. Certified coaches and counselors are welcome to attend. But there's some good news, too! The Feeling Great App is now available in both app stores (IOS and Android) and is for therapists and the general public, and you can take a ride for free! Check it out! Today's Questions Kiernan asks about "unfairness" and the connection between worthwhileness and achievement. Brittany asks: Can you "erase" feelings of sadness and depression by shining lasers in the patient's eyes? James asks about the use of TEAM methods in the NHS in the UK Brian asks: Is positive reframing the most successful technique you have used with your patients? 1. Kieran asks (slightly edited for clarity): How would you talk back to negative thoughts like this one: "It's not fair that I can't afford quality food when there are millionaires that will have access to better food and a healthier lifestyle which has an effect on overall health and longevity'"? Or what if you feel like it's unfair that you should have to pay a lot of money for an expensive dental treatment that you can't afford? Kieran also asks (slightly edited by david): What if worthwhileness is not based on achievement but there are still things you would like to have and enjoy? They would buy and own things that they happen to like and not to impress others. Hi David and Ronda, and if Matt is on I have been listening to your wonderful podcast for about the last 3 years as I drive to work. It has really opened my eyes about how your thoughts create your interpersonal reality. Loved the podcasts on jealousy addiction, perfectionism, achievement addiction and many more. My questions would be: What about if someone wants to achieve more but it isn't based on worthwhileness? They would buy and own things that they happen to like and not to impress others. Let's say they wanted to be able to afford a nice house, healthier higher quality food and water. As the quality does have an effect on health especially in the US as the regulations are not the greatest. However, the fact that they couldn't afford to buy these upsets them? Thoughts: 'It's not fair that I can't afford quality food but there are millionaires that will have access to better food, lifestyle which has an effect on overall health and longevity' Or if someone has to pay for unexpected expensive dental treatment. Thoughts: 'It's not fair that I have to pay £14,000 for this treatment'. 'It should be more affordable to lower income households, as it is essential to have functional teeth' I hope I have explained this well, I would love to hear your thoughts. Keep doing what you are doing and all the best. Kieran David's response Sure Kieran, if you like I will make this an Ask David question for a podcast. LMK if that's okay, and if it is okay to use your first name. Great question, and has to do with the theme of acceptance: should I or shouldn't I? Here are the quick versions, but we can discuss in more detail on the live podcast. First, I do not find it useful to base my worthwhileness on my achievements or on my failures. I do work hard and like creating things that are helpful to people, and I enjoy earning money to support my family. I can be motivated to work hard to get things we want or need, but I don't base anyone's worthwhileness on how much money they have, or anything, to be honest. In fact, I could also easily accept wanting to buy something really cool, not just because I like it, but because it might impress others, or because they might find it fascinating, too! I don't try to regulate my life with a lot of shoulds and shouldn'ts, and find that I am happier and more peaceful without lots of shoulds. In the Feeling Great App I have created a class called "Your PhD in Shoulds." You might enjoy it! Second, you can say that it is unfair that some people have more money and resources than other people if you like. And you have every right to feel angry if that's what you want, as well. Acceptance is more of a decision than a technique. Take the fact that lions kill deer when they are hungry. You can say, "they should not do that. It's unfair!" But that won't stop a hungry lion. You don't have to LIKE seeing a lion kill an innocent deer, but you can accept it. Again, that's a choice. The behavior of a lion is dominated by millions of years of evolution. Humans are no different. One thing that sometimes helps is to make a list all the REALLY GOOD reasons NOT to accept the "unfairness" in the world. I'll bet you could come up with at least ten to fifteen strong reasons. Then you can ask yourself, "Given all those good reason NOT to accept the fact that some people have more and some people have fewer resources, maybe I should just stay good and angry! Why in the world would I want to change?" Also, when you find an injustice, you can use your energy being good and angry, and complain about it, or you can use your energy to do something about it. Or, you can also work to change yourself, instead of complaining about the world. I also have a new class on acceptance. It's called, "Accept this shit? Hell NO!" You might like it as well. I am babbling so will stop. Warmly, david 2. Brittany asks: Can you "erase" feelings of sadness and depression by shining lasers in the patient's eyes? Hi David, My husband's boss was telling him she's going to be doing some laser therapy to "cure" her depression. She had to undergo 9 hours of testing to see if she'd be a candidate. Apparently, they plan to shine lasers in her eyes to "erase" her sadness. Obviously, I assume this is a load of garbage. But have you ever heard of such a thing? Is this just hypnosis? Best, Brittany David's Reply Hi Brittany, Probably. As they say, follow the money! There is a placebo effect if you believe something will help, so tons of garbage gets served up as costly gourmet food. You can read up on this on the internet I suspect. Let me know what you learn! Best, david Brittany responds to David Love your answer! I was looking into it and read they use a cold laser in the eyes which allegedly releases endorphins. I already know from you that just like with exercise and that study about the endorphin blockers, it made no difference. People just feel better because they think they are doing something good for their body by exercising. They also allege that the lasers aid damaged neurological tissue. They claim it has helped many patients but there is no data backing it up that I see. They really lost me when I read that lack of activity, stress, and maternal deprivation cause depression in the first place. Thanks! Brittany David adds As it turns out, I know two laser experts who are regulars on my Sunday hikes. Dr. Alexander Makowski is a brilliant scientist who is involved in the research and development of lasers and their marketing. Here is his email, along with some terrific links to articles about the hype of "low light lasers." Hope you enjoy the email and links from Alex: Hi David, I'll chime in too! From a different angle. Zak knows some great doctors who are doing real work, but the general field of low-level laser/ light therapy (LLLT) for medical issues has been fraught with charlatans for some years. (David note: Zak is a laser expert at the Stanford Medical School and is currently preparing a blog on the topic of LLLT. I will include a link to her blog when it is published, likely in a couple weeks. She is awesome and also often joins our Sunday hikes!) Dr, Alex Makowsy continues Good work by Tiina Kaaru (https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/profile/Tiina.Karu-8010) and Juanita Anders (https://www.usuhs.edu/profile/juanita-anders-ms-phd) on mechanisms behind using light to stimulate our mitochondria or deactivate infectious bacteria are well documents However, the good work done by the few was overshadowed and worse, was perverted for many years into crackpot devices using bad stats and poorly designed studies. Or sometimes just straight preying on vulnerable people. It is the great shame of the laser industry. Worse yet, some of these devices were actual lasers that led to people getting hurt. I can't recommend in good conscience that lasers be shone into eyes at any time other than diagnostic devices meant to diagnose the eye itself. It may be that some day soon a good scientific body of evidence changes my stance but not yet... The story starts in the origin of my journey into light and lasers. I got involved in this field in 2005 while taking an elective class on optics and lasers when I got a call from my mom that she was seeking a laser therapy for her fibromyalgia. My mother's desire to get her fibromyalgia treated with a "cold laser" pulled me into this field since I was taking a class with a professor who later became my doctoral mentor. A full semester of my free time disappeared as I tried to source out of print articles and do a deep dive on whether this was real or garbage. A research term paper and a conference visit later I could finally see the same trends you saw with medication. I talked her out of the potentially dangerous unproven device usage. [As you may have suspected, In fact my mom was having significant issues in her marriage and life and a very good doctor set her straight. My mom divorced and is now happily remarried, about 95 pounds lighter, no fibromyalgia or serious insomnia. If only we had known you back then she would have recovered in a session or two rather than 3 years] However, in the process, I dug into some of the real research that small doses of light can affect our bodies in ways we don't understand fully due to lack of research. Fast forward several decades and some of the best researchers survived the public scandal of LLLT and found a scientific mechanism (cytochrome c oxidase activation) to explain observed changes in mitochondrial activity. However, the scientists don't claim to cure everything or anything. Then they published this mitochondrial activation and suddenly: This, of course, proves that blogablum does in fact exist and now the truth about the panacea is available for all!! David note: "blogablum" is a fake nonsense word I made up that refers to nothing meaningful. Now continuing with the Alex email: This is a good review of the history and current evidence about it : https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/medical-critical-thinking/hype-around-photobiomodulation But if you want the real goods, the hard truth about cold lasers has been out there for over 15 years: Introducing the New Low Level Laser Treatment! youtu.be The following search on YouTube will reveal the secrets of the universe: "cold laser before:2009" Warmly, Alexander J Makowski, Ph.D. Dr. Matt May's reply Hi David, Thank you for forwarding this question to me. I am very concerned and wonder if this may fall under the category of 'malpractice'. For one, I am unaware of any FDA approved treatment for depression that involves shining lasers into people's eyes to erase their sad memories. For a list of FDA approved treatments for depression, you could refer to: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK559078/ It's possible that there is new evidence I'm not aware of, but I searched online for studies of light in treatment of depression and was unable to find any placebo-controlled trials. This is a problem because placebo responses can be so high in the case of depression and anxiety. There were some studies on light therapy, but nothing fitting the description of 'shining lasers into eyes to erase sad memories'. Other concerns I have relate to the high cost of such an extensive "evaluation", as well as possible risk of shining lasers into someone's eyes. In the absence of evidence supporting the treatment, it seems like a high cost, and potential risk, to the patient, hence my concern for malpractice. It's pretty common for people with depression to feel a sense of desperation, especially after many failed efforts to address their symptoms. This group of individuals are likely to be extremely susceptible to scams and purveyors of 'snake oil' (sham treatments). It's also concerning to me because the theory behind the idea of shining light into people's eyes to erase sadness doesn't make logical sense to me. It's a potentially-testable hypothesis, but it's such an absurd hypothesis that I don't see it as worth testing or entertaining. If we are defining depression as some combination of worthless, hopeless, ashamed and guilty feelings, then the hypothesis that such feelings could be meaningfully addressed by such a crude instrument as a laser or a pill or an electrical impulse is absurd. This is because our feelings arise from our thoughts/perceptions. I've never met a single person or patient who was suffering from depression but had healthy positive thoughts about themselves. I've also never met someone who had patterns of negative thinking, but felt fine, up-beat and positive. The idea that a pill, a laser, a magnetic pulsation or electrical current could selectively alter the specific thoughts that cause depression doesn't make sense with what we know about the brain and thoughts and feelings. How could a pill, for example, which crosses the blood-brain barrier and impacts every neuron in the brain, selectively target only the neurons that give rise to depressed thinking? It's like imagining that we could carpet-bomb a city but only kill the murderers and rapists. I'd encourage all potential clients who are receiving treatment for depression or other conditions to ask their providers for literature that documents the effectiveness of the treatment and to get a second opinion if they are unsure. These are my 2-cents on the topic and I could be completely wrong about it all. Hoping to hear from others what they think. Also, David, I saw several other people included in the invitation to respond to this question but I didn't see them cc'd. Perhaps they were bcc'd? Wishing you the best, fondly, Matt David's reply to Matt Thanks, yes, I have a fantastic response already in the show notes from Dr. Alex Makowski who does research and development of lasers with valid medical applications. His thrust is similar to yours. Our field is littered with junk "scientism" intended to fool and exploit people, similar to the snake oil salespeople who use to go from tow…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    401: Ask David: Bipolar, the Dark Side, Changing Behavior Jun 17, 2024
    Show notes

    Ask David Bipolar, the Dark Side, Changing Behavior

    We have lots of great questions today. The answers in the show notes were written prior to the podcast, and the answers in the live podcast as we discussed these questions may differ somewhat or amplify the written materials in these show notes.

    We love your questions. Remember to send them to David@feelinggood.com.

    Announcement: Our awesome summer intensive is returning after a long, five years due to the pandemic. It is typically the most outstanding and rewarding TEAM-CBT training of the year, and it will take place again and the wonderful South San Francisco Conference Center from August 8 – 11, 2025.

    You can attend in person if you register soon, since in-person seating will be strictly limited and only a small number are still available. You can also attend the online, live-streamed version of this program at a substantial discount. The online experience and small group exercises will be similar for the in-person and online participants.

    Check out the details, including early-bird discounts, at www.cbtintensive.com

    www.cbtintensive.com

    Hope to see you there!

    Warmly, david

    Today's Questions

    1. Alison asks: I have bipolar Disorder and I have had trouble challenging my negative thoughts. I'm suffering. What can I do
    2. NAME WITHHELD asks: Can or should a person really and truly accept their dark side?
    3. Trainor asks: In TEAM there is a strong emphasis on changing the way you think. But is it sometimes also important to change your behavior, or to make real changes in your life, or to help others who need help changing their circumstances==for example, people who are struggling in poverty.
    1. Alison asks: I have bipolar Disorder and I have had trouble challenging my negative thoughts. I'm suffering. What can I do?

    Hi David,

    Many years ago I used your book to beat depressive thinking… in the last three years I've been diagnosed with Bipolar Disorder and have found my depressive thinking too difficult to budge with your book.

    I'm really suffering; any ideas about what I could do?

    Thank you for your service to humanity. I always recommend your book.

    David's response

    Hi Alison,

    A therapist could help. The new Feeling Great App could help. And tons of free resources at www.feelinggood.com.

    In addition, can you please give me an example of the negative thoughts you can't budge. Then we can point things out in the podcast and try to figure out why you're getting stuck!

    I have found that doing cognitive therapy / TEAM-CBT with individuals with Bipolar Disorder is exceptionally helpful during the depressed (not manic) phase, and works pretty much the same way as with anyone who's feeling down.

    Best, david

    2. NAME WITHHELD asks: Can or should a person really and truly accept their dark side?

    Hello David,

    My name is NAME WITHHELD and I am doing my PhD degree in Neuroimmunology in LOCATION WITHHELD. I had come across your book feeling good and your podcasts by one of my therapists - they have had an immense impact on my way of thinking.

    I really love disarming and using "I feel" statements to connect! I had also realized that by finding some genuine truth in a person's belief even if it sounds ridiculous, I would automatically develop certain level of respect for that person! I really love that! I feel really happy that I can respect a person even without accepting his/her beliefs!!

    I am now working on my distortions. I really love working on my mind that way.

    Anyway, I have wanted to ask you if a person CAN accept his/her dark side? I seemed to have loathed myself for quite a long time and couldn't stand living alone without a partner or a person around. I hated myself for disrespecting my mother whilst growing up.

    But, sometime during Dec last year, I had had an epiphany of why things happened the way they did and somehow, I learnt that the reason why I had disrespected my mother was because my father, after their separation, kept filling my mind about how wrong my mother was for breaking up the family and I believed him because I had a good rapport with him, than I had with my mother.

    Also, my mother was very awkward in building a relationship with me and I had misconstrued that with her indifference towards me. After that, I stopped hurting myself over it because I had learnt to empathize with myself then. I sobbed profusely that day.

    Is it really possible to truly accept yourself? I feel at ease a lot more these days than I used to before. But I also have to battle my distortions too on a regular basis!

    Please help me out here! Thank you so much for everything that you have done!! I really love your work!!

    Regards,

    NAME WITHHELD

    David's reply

    Thanks so much. I hid your name and location, and hope that's okay, and we WILL include your excellent question on our upcoming podcast. My brief reply is that all human beings have a "dark side," and that we are far better off accepting it, as opposed to denying it and seeing ourselves as "totally good," because then we might see others as "totally bad," and feel morally superior. This dynamic is the cause of wars and a great deal pf hatred and suffering.

    3. Trainor asks: In TEAM there is a strong emphasis on changing the way you think. But is it sometimes also important to change your behavior, or to make real changes in your life, or to help others who need help changing their circumstances--for example, people who are struggling in poverty.

    Hey David!

    I have asked several questions over the years (I asked about A.I. which I much enjoyed the episode on that!), so feel free to ignore this email if you feel I've overburdened you guys.

    Anyway, I had a question about changing thoughts versus circumstances.

    You often say that our thoughts create all of our emotional and interpersonal realities. I thought maybe a better or more nuanced definition would be to also mention that events CAN change our feelings but they do so through changing our thoughts.

    I have heard Matt May mention this idea in some circumstances as the "low road to recovery." Where you actually get the thing you think you need and as a result feel better.

    However, I thought about certain situations where changing the circumstance could also be a valid solution to an individual's problems. Take someone living in poverty, I am certain that CBT could help this person change their emotions around the experience of living in poverty. But would bringing the individual out of poverty be considered a "low road to recovery"?

    Or could we say that bringing someone out of poverty is also a valid way of changing their emotional distress? Like sort of how therapists use both exposure and cognitive techniques to quell phobias or certain anxieties.

    I personally like this definition because it includes the ability to change your circumstances as a method to change your thinking, without it being the only method. It also makes sense in a world where people want to make changes in society (giving women the right to vote, ending child labor) and create environments that foster positive thinking.

    I think so much focus on the cognition (while fundamentally true) makes it feel like people should focus exclusively on changing the way they think about a situation. When, in reality, it seems like we can both change our circumstances and thinking simultaneously to make our lives better. Anyway, just wanted to know what you thought about this idea.

    Thanks for everything you do,

    Trainor Peters

    P.S. I have nearly completed my first year of my psychology undergrad to become a counselor. In great part to you and all the wonderful people on your podcast. So, thank you!

    David's reply.

    Thanks, Trainor,

    I will add this excellent question to our Ask David list, if that's okay, and discuss with Matt and Rhonda on a podcast.

    My hospital in Philadelphia was located in an inner-city neighborhood, and many (perhaps most) of our patients have very limited resources. Some were homeless, and many had not completed the 5th grade. This gave me abundant opportunities to work with people with "real" problems in addition to their distorted perceptions.

    In addition, I have always emphasized that sometimes you need to change the way you behave in the "real" world in addition to changing the way you think about it.

    We'll give these topics a deeper dive on the live podcast discussion.

    And, best of luck in your ongoing training! Once you are in a graduate program, you will be eligible, if interested, to join one of our two free weekly TEAM-CBT training groups, which are both virtual.

    Warmly, david

    Thanks for listening today!

    Rhonda and David

    Special Announcement Attend the legendary Summer Intensive Featuring Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt August 8 - 11. 2024 Learn Advanced TEAM-CBT skills Heal yourself, heal your patients First Intensive in 5 long years. It will knock your socks off! Limited Seating--Act Fast! Click for registration / more information!

    Sadly, this workshop is a training program which will be limited to therapists and mental health professionals and graduate students in a mental health field Apologies, but therapists have complained when non-therapists have attended our continuing education training programs. This is partly because of the intimate nature of the small group exercises and the personal work the therapists may do during the workshop. Certified coaches and counselors are welcome to attend.

    But there's some good news, too! The Feeling Great App is now available in both app stores (IOS and Android) and is for therapists and the general public, and you can take a ride for free! Check it out!


    Celebrating Podcast #400 Jun 10, 2024
    Show notes

    #400! Yippee!

    Today, Rhonda has prepared a special celebration for our 400th podcast, and still going strong! She has invited a number of our favorite people and podcast guests to celebrate with us, starting with our beloved friend and frequent Ask David contributor, Matt May, MD, who officially joined us in early 2000.

    Matt's presence on the show had meant a great deal, personally and professionally, because I supervised Matt when he was a Stanford psychiatric resident, and had been missing our weekly chats! Our reunion via the Feeling Good Podcast has been special for that reason, but also because of Matt's kindly but scholarly answers to the many questions all of you submit. Keep them coming, and send them directly to Rhonda or David. We love reading and answering them!

    Next, we were joined by two more extraordinary psychiatrists and human beings, Drs. Heather Clague and Brandon Vance, who song their rendition (with guitar accompaniment) of "Help Dr. Burns!" (Based on Beetles' Help, I need somebody!"

    With their kind permission, here are the brilliant lyrics!

    Help! I need a podcast!

    Help! Not just any podcast!

    Help! Pushing the Magic Button for ....

    Help!

    When I was younger, 8 years younger than today

    I thought I could help everybody; help them in every way.

    I got so grandiose; I was so self-assured.

    I'd push my brilliant techniques, but my patients were never cured.

    So, Help me not to Help oh Dr. Burns

    Will they like me if they have to do the work?

    If I set an ultimatum, am I a jerk?!

    Won't you please, please stop me?!

    So many times, I tried to help, but then got stuck

    I didn't know but my patients were also thinking what the #?@!

    Your podcast said to test at the start and after every session.

    And then my eyes they opened wide

    Boy, was that a lesson!

    Oh Help me not to help, oh Dr. Burns!

    Help me unlearn the bad habits I have learned

    I'll do homework when my urge to help returns

    Won't you please, please help me?!

    Now I explore my patients' reasons not to change.

    I learned to sit with open hands if they choose to stay the same.

    Only when they fight for change and want to do the work,

    That's when I offer tools, and know the changes will endure.

    You've helped me not to help, oh Dr. Burns

    'Til my patients show me that they really yearn

    To do the work and ask me really firmly

    Won't you please, please help me?

    Your podcasts helped ME!

    Oooooooh!

    Much warmth to each of you!

    Heather and Brendan

    Our next guest was the brilliant and beloved Dr. Jill Levitt who joined my weekly Stanford training group when she and her husband, Brian, and two boys moved to the Bay Area from New York in 2007. Jill has moved up in the ranks and now co-leads the Tuesday group with me, and also joins me as co-therapists in a great many live sessions we have published as two consecutive podcasts.

    The idea is to document exactly how TEAM-CBT works, and how we can nearly always get such blow-away results in a single, extended session. That was my dream as a young man, since the methods I was taught as a psychiatric resident almost never got rapid results, or even any noticeable changes in my patients. Now that dream has become a reality, and a great many people in our TEAM-CBT community have contributed to that evolution.

    Next we were joined by our beloved Dr. Amy Huberman. Her riveting personal work on perfectionism was published recently on two consecutive Feeling Good Podcasts. Amy was glowing and filled with joy, which gave us great feelings of joy as well!

    And then we were graced by a visit from Mina, who has starred in many Feeling Good Podcasts on a number of personal issues. I will be seeing Mina and her beloved husband in a few minutes for our Sunday morning hike and dim sum feast afterwards. It is always a highlight of my week!

    Next was another Amy Berner who reported on her recent and wildly successful Intimate Connections Book Club with yet another psychiatrist, Dr. Leigh Harrington. Amy did some personal work with me on dating and sex appeal three years ago, when we discussed the Queen Bee phenomenon.

    Apparently, it was successful, because she brought her fantastic husband, Randy Kolin, as proof of the effectiveness of the many dating strategies and tips in that book. Randy is also a mental health professional who works with stressed-out scientists working on nuclear fusion at the Lawrence Livermore Laboratories.

    We wish him all the best since the work of those scientists is well on the road to creating commercially viable nuclear fusion, which will transform life as we know it on the surface of the earth by supplying unlimited, clean, low-cost energy.

    Their visit was followed by Zane Pierce, whom I hadn't had the chance to chat with much for a number of years. He led a recent "delight" and "gratitude" hike that we published on podcast # 361entitled "Finding Joy in Everyday Life," with Dr. Angela Krumm from the Feeling Good Institute in Mountain View, California.

    We have done previous podcasts with Zane, and his lovely wife, Daisy, including one of our most popular podcasts ever on "What's the Secret of a Meaningful Life," Episode 079.

    And then came the magnificent colleague and friend, Indrani Mookerjee. Indrani joined our community after attending the 2019 intensive, and recently did one of the most explosive and jaw-dropping podcasts, Episodes 359 & 360, "You Wowed Me, A Mother-Daughter Conflict," featuring her personal work on her relationship with her daughter.

    Indrani had struggled, unsuccessfully, to get close to her daughter, whom she loved greatly. She made a mind-blowing discovery of why during her personal work, and instantly achieved what I call "interpersonal enlightenment.) She now provides the joyous follow up on how her relationship with her daughter has blossomed and evolved since that momentous moment.

    Next, we were joined by Mike Christensen, who is our top TEAM therapist in Canada. Mike became familiar with my work when he read Feeling Good in 2006 and then heard a keynote speech I gave at a conference in 2009. Since that time, he attended many of my two-day workshops in Canada, and now is a leading TEAM-CBT therapist and teacher. He's been a featured guest on seven Feeling Good Podcasts or episodes of Facebook Live, when I was doing televised work on Facebook every Sunday afternoon.

    Mike describes himself as "joyously average," a idea that really resonates with me. It is a form of "invisible enlightenment" which nearly everyone fears, but you cannot understand the incredible liberation of this "Great Death" of the "self" until you've experienced. We recollected a Feared Fantasy exercise we once did together while hiking one evening following a workshop in Canada.

    We also got updated on his beautiful and brilliant daughter, Katlin, who is now studying psychology in college and hopefully heading for her own career doing TEAM-CBT.

    And finally, one my most favorite people in the, our brilliant, wonderful, and funny Sara Shane, whose life-changing enlightenment has been a fantastic source of joy and inspiration to me and to many. Sara came from humble roots, as a Mexican immigrant picking fruit with her parents for survival in the US, and is now living in the Central Valley and attending not one, but two weekly TEAM-CBT training groups.

    She specializes in brief intensive treatments for the patients she treats. You may recall her from podcast #162, High Speed Cure for OCD, where she described her single-session treatment for 20 years of OCD / contamination phobia. She also did a lot of personal work to achieve liberation from her fairly severe social phobia and feelings of inferiority that were embedded from early childhood.

    We love you and so much appreciate you, Sara!

    That's about it for today, but than you all for listening. Next week, we will likely have two consecutive Ask David podcasts with Dr. Matt May, followed by two consecutive podcasts called "Raw Emotion: Personal work with Chris," featuring the work that Jill and I did with a young man with social fears and an almost unbelievably traumatic childhood, growing up in Palo Alto. The sound quality is not always top-notch, sadly, but the unbelievable quality and impact of this session easily makes up for that, so we have decided to publish it anyway, and hope you find it as amazing as we did.

    David, Rhonda, and the whole gang!

    Special Announcement Attend the legendary Summer Intensive Featuring Drs. David Burns and Jill Levitt August 8 - 11. 2024 Learn Advanced TEAM-CBT skills Heal yourself, heal your patients First Intensive in 5 long years. It will knock your socks off! Limited Seating--Act Fast! Click for registration / more information!

    Sadly, this workshop is a training program which will be limited to therapists and mental health professionals and graduate students in a mental health field Apologies, but therapists have complained when non-therapists have attended our continuing education training programs. This is partly because of the intimate nature of the small group exercises and the personal work the therapists may do during the workshop. Certified coaches and counselors are welcome to attend.

    Hey, another special announcement! The long-awaited Feeling Great App is finally available in the Apple and Google stores. Check it out! You can try it for free!

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