Faith Matters

Latest Episodes:

141. The Song of the Heart — Brett Stewart and Brandon Stewart Nov 20, 2022

Show notes

A few years ago, we were invited by some good friends to see a Christmas concert their kids were participating in. We were happy to be invited, and of course, wanted to support our friends and their kids! So we headed to Salt Lake City expecting a fun evening.
But when we walked into Abravanel Hall, we knew something was going on that we didn’t understand. The place was buzzing — it was packed full of people, with a tangible excitement in the air. We took our seats, and when the lights went down, nearly 1000 musicians flooded the stage and filled the balconies around us. When the music began, we were hit with a wall of sound unlike anything we’d ever heard. The quality of instrumentation, singing, and arrangement was truly incredible — by the time the concert was over, it felt like every person in attendance had been profoundly moved.
That was our first introduction to Millennial Choirs and Orchestras, known as MCO, founded in 2007 by Brett and Brandon Stewart — and now home to over 4,000 musicians in five different chapters.
Brett and Brandon are brothers, both with incredible musical resumes. Brett received a doctorate degree in choral conducting with cognate studies in composition from the University of Cincinnati College–Conservatory of Music, a master’s degree in choral conducting from California State University, Long Beach, and a bachelor’s degree in piano performance from BYU. All in all, he’s been teaching music for nearly three decades, and is an accomplished conductor, composer, pianist, and vocalist.
Brandon received a bachelor’s degree from BYU before going on to receive a Master’s Degree from Juilliard, and being invited to complete a doctorate program and teach at Juilliard — before choosing to instead join his brother Brett and found MCO. In addition to his talents as a conductor, composer, and vocalist, Brandon has been second-prize winner of the Juilliard Concerto Competition and the first prize winner of the MTNA national collegiate piano competition.
Brett and Brandon tell the founding story in the episode itself, but here we’ll just say that these two have felt guided each step of this journey over the last fifteen years, including in some difficult moments that have turned into remarkable blessings for the choir and for audiences around the world.
We’re releasing this episode this week because over the next few weeks, MCO will be conducting its Christmas Concert series, with concerts in Utah, Arizona, California, Texas, and Idaho. You can still find tickets to the concerts and we can promise that you won’t be disappointed. To get those tickets, head to millennial.org.
You can also find a book about the MCO story, called Divine Orchestration, written by our friend Greg Trimble and available on Amazon.

The Christmas issue of Wayfare is now available to preorder! Order your copies (bulk discounts are available—it's the perfect gift!) or become a paid Wayfare subscriber by October 31 to receive them by the first Sunday of Advent, and get a look inside the issue here!

140. Understanding and Preventing Sexual Abuse — Sage Williams and Rebecca Bettilyon Nov 12, 2022

Show notes

*This discusses the topic of sexual abuse and prevention of sexual abuse. Please use discretion in determining whether or not this is a suitable episode for you or for anyone listening in.*

Sexual abuse and sexual violence are shockingly prevalent. In the United States, about 1 in 4 girls, and 1 in 13 boys experience child sexual abuse. In their lifetimes, over half of women and 1 in 3 men will experience sexual violence. And it’s remarkably common for child sexual abuse to go undisclosed for decades: One study showed that the average age at the time of reporting child sex abuse was 52 years old.

As Latter-day Saints, we’re encouraged, to “do everything we can to prevent abuse and to protect and help victims,” Pres. Nelson re-emphasized this in his conference talk last month. we hope this conversation can help us all do that more effectively.

Our guests are Sage Williams and Rebecca Bettilyon (please listen to the podcast intro to find out more about Rebecca and Sage).

With Sage and Rebecca, we cover issues like the prevalence of abuse, who perpetrators often are, how to recognize abuse, the body's autonomic response system and how we could teach the law of chastity to prevent feelings of shame, and how our communities can be one of the best tools we have in preventing abuse.

All of us recognize that our comments in the conversation today are raw, real, imperfect and incomplete. We’re all still learning how to articulate our thoughts and feelings on these difficult topics in public, and together with Rebecca and Sage, we ask for some grace and understanding of our intent to inspire healing for everyone impacted by sexual abuse.

NOTES:

CDC statistics for adults and children
Policy Brief, including average age of disclosing sexual abuse)
Shame vs guilt
Reference to children getting sex education from pornography
Conversation prompt to prepare children for an encounter with pornography:
Reference for the quote on forgiveness:
Neil L. Andersen, The Divine Gift of Forgiveness, Deseret Book Co., 2019, p. 225.
Abuse.churchofjesuschrist.org
Liahona articles on consent, sexual assault
For the Strength of Youth article on relationship boundaries:
Friend article on body safety:
The Mama Bear Effect

138. The Rediscovered Gospel — A Conversation with Elaine Pagels Nov 05, 2022

Show notes

In 1945 fifty-two papyrus texts were found concealed in an earthenware jar buried in the Egyptian desert. They turned out to be early Christian writings, some dating all the way back to the first few centuries AD. Elaine Pagels, a historian of religion at Princeton university, has dedicated her life to studying and interpreting these texts and it turns out that there are some surprisingly powerful connections between some of the teachings in these ancient texts and the doctrines of the Restored Gospel.

In this episode, Zach Davis spoke with Elaine about her life and research, the importance of wrestling with the big questions of existence, and how religion can open transformative new relationships and perspectives.

Elaine Pagels is a historian of religion and the Harrington Spear Paine Professor at Princeton University. Her ground-breaking books include The Gnostic Gospels, The Origin of Satan, and the New York Times best-seller Beyond Belief: The Secret Gospel of Thomas. Her most recent book tells her own story and why she loves investigating the history of religion: Why Religion? A Personal Story.

137. Loving Your Enemy: Daryl Davis and the Ku Klux Klan Oct 30, 2022

Show notes

This week, Faith Matters is bringing you a story that defies expectations so completely that you really have to hear it straight from the source. Our guest was Daryl Davis, who’s easily one of the most fascinating and inspiring people we’ve ever met.

Daryl has spent his career as a professional musician, including decades playing alongside rock and roll legends Chuck Berry and Jerry Lee Lewis. He’s a master of multiple instruments, but specializes on the piano, where he blends unbelievable talent, skill, and passion to create truly incredible music. Make no mistake however, there's much more to Daryl than just music.

Daryl first experienced anti-Black racism from strangers as a young boy, and it inspired a lifelong question: “how can you hate me when you don’t even know me?” Over many years, that question eventually led him to not just meet, but befriend members and leaders of Ku Klux Klan: as those friendships have blossomed, love and respect have grown in the place of hate. Daryl now estimates that he’s been instrumental in persuading over 200 white supremacists to leave their hate groups.

Along with his story, Daryl shares a provocative message: that we should continuously allow people with incorrect or even abhorrent viewpoints to air their opinions. In Daryl’s view, ignorance is the root of fear, hate, and destruction. And only by remaining together in the same cultural spaces, and even actively seeking out and conversing with those we disagree with, can we counter the root cause — ignorance — with education and exposure to better views. That’s how Daryl says we can then eliminate the symptoms of fear, hate, and destruction.

Daryl has told his story on platforms like The Joe Rogan Experience and TedX, where he’s garnered tens of millions of views and downloads.

We want to thank the Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism, known by their acronym “FAIR,” who introduced us to Daryl and made this interview happen. FAIR is nonpartisan organization dedicated to advancing civil rights and liberties for all Americans, and promoting a common culture based on fairness, understanding, and humanity. Daryl is a Senior Fellow and Advisory Board Member at FAIR, and you can find out more about their foundation at fairforall.org.

136. Let Me Drown with Moses — A Conversation with James Goldberg Oct 23, 2022

Show notes

For this episode, we were happy to bring on someone that’s been on our list for a long time — scholar and writer James Goldberg.

James is a fascinating person and Latter-day Saint, and brings a truly unique perspective to our faith. In his words, his family is Jewish on one side, Sikh on the other, and Mormon in the middle. He works as a historian at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and is also a poet, novelist, essayist, playwright, documentary filmmaker, scholar, and translator. He’s won the Association for Mormon letters awards in both the Drama and Novel categories, for different works, and has been a finalist in the Poetry, Creative Nonfiction, and Criticism categories. He’s also one of a rotating cast of scholars on BYUtv’s Come Follow Up series.

Our conversation was wide-ranging and it turns out James has interesting insights to share on just about anything — so we covered several topics, including how Latter-day Saints can approach the Old Testament, wrestling with other difficult scripture or history, and the virtue of the slow, distilled process of creating poetry. We also discussed James’s book of poetry, Let Me Drown with Moses and its provocative title, including the virtue of choosing faith in a chaotic world while maintaining our own moral compass.

135. Imagining a Four-Stage Church — A Conversation with Patrick Mason Oct 16, 2022

Show notes

We’ve been thinking and talking a lot recently about a phenomenon that sometimes happens and that we’ve occasionally felt ourselves — something you might call a “spiritual whiplash.” It can happen when we’re really uplifted by something: maybe a book we’ve read, an inspiring group of people we’ve been around, or even a transcendental experience in nature. We’re feeling fed, and our cup is full… but then, we come back down to earth. We’re faced with the realities of the mundane, and the imperfections and humanity of the people all around us, including ourselves.

So — what are we supposed to do when this happens? Is it realistic to expect to stay in this spiritually uplifted state all the time? What about when even our Church meetings don’t feel like they’re recharging our batteries, but instead are draining them? When we’re feeling fed by something, how do we take that feeling with us to share in our everyday settings and communities, rather than resenting the contrast between them? How can we look at members of our communities as God might, rather than judging them for not meeting our standards — or even judging them for what we perceive as them judging us?

To discuss these issues, we brought back a trusted friend and mentor, Patrick Mason. Patrick is the Leonard Arrington Chair of Mormon History and Culture at Utah State University, and a frequent guest on this show and advisor to Faith Matters. He’s spoken and written quite a bit on this topic, including in his book Planted. He was an amazing conversation partner as we worked our way through some of these questions. We can’t thank him enough for coming back on.

As a note, we referenced our recent Restore gathering several times in the conversation, including presentations that were given by Brian McLaren, Jared Halverson, and Jody Moore. We also reference a few faith development frameworks that you’ll hear, including Brian’s which you can learn more about in his book Faith After Doubt.

134. Do I Stay Christian? — A Conversation with Brian McLaren Oct 01, 2022

Show notes

In this episode, we were honored to bring back our friend Brian McLaren to talk about his brand new book, Do I Stay Christian?

In this new book, Brian addresses a real question which underlies a startling sociological truth: people are leaving Christianity at a rapid pace. In fact, Pew Research shows that today, about 64% people in the US identify as Christian, after falling rapidly from a high of 90% just a few decades back.

Brian’s book takes an unflinching look at the reasons people might leave Christianity, before spending a lot of time on why someone might choose to stay, as Brian has. But you won’t find any “apologetics” here — rather, Brian looks at staying as part of a broader faith journey — one that can take us out of a simple world of black-and-white into a new “stage” of our faith: one filled with paradox, mystery, and love. In one of the most compelling and memorable parts of the book, Brian asks “What if you’re really trying to change stages, not religions?”

While truly not prescribing any particular path for readers, Brian shows how all people of good will — including those with doubts, questions, and criticisms — can do so much to benefit their institutions and traditions if they choose to stay. We think this book does so much good work to paint compelling reasons for doing so, and to help illustrate a path forward.

Brian McLaren an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good. He is a faculty member of The Living School and podcaster with Learning How to See, which are part of the Center for Action and Contemplation. We’d also recommend going back and listening to Brian’s first appearance on the Faith Matters podcast in episode #67, where we discuss his book Faith After Doubt.

133. The Love Map — A Conversation with Carol Lynn Pearson Sep 24, 2022

Show notes

In this episode, we got to speak with Carol Lynn Pearson about her new book, The Love Map: Saving Your Love Relationship and Incidentally Saving the World.

Carol Lynn has been a powerful and well-known voice in the Latter-day Saint community for many years. She’s the author of several remarkable works, including the memoir Goodbye, I Love You, and the book of poetry Finding Mother God: Poems to Heal the World. Her full catalog of works is too impressive to list here, but one other highlight is that she wrote one of our very favorite primary songs: I’ll Walk with You, which was published as a children’s book in 2020.

Carol Lynn will also be speaking with us at Restore, our upcoming gathering in Salt Lake City.

Carol Lynn’s new book is a remarkable work of fiction, that, as Carol Lynn says, is also true. It’s the story of a young woman whose fraught relationship with her husband is reaching a breaking point just as she suffers traumatic injuries in a terrorist attack. But a vision she experiences while recovering gives her something remarkable and unexpected — a “map” that will serve as a guide to healing her most intimate relationship, and allow her to see each person in her life as God does.

Though the book is intended for an audience much wider than just Latter-day Saints, its message resonated deeply with us, and Carol Lynn’s hard-won wisdom and remarkable gifts an artist were abundantly apparent throughout the book.

We’d strongly encourage anyone hoping for healing in their relationships to pick it up — we really think you won’t regret it. You can find the book available on Amazon now.

We want to extend a sincere thanks to Carol Lynn for coming on, and we hope you enjoy this conversation as much as we did.

132. History and Faith — A Conversation with David Holland Sep 17, 2022

Show notes

The Restoration occurred in a fascinating and complex religious and historical moment in American history, and knowing more about that context can help us more deeply appreciate the blessings and beauty of the Restored Gospel.

One person at the forefront of expanding our knowledge of early American religious history is David Holland, a professor at Harvard Divinity School and also the son of Elder Jeffrey R. Holland.

In today’s episode Zach Davis and Terryl Givens visited David in his Cambridge office to discuss a range of topics, including how to discern the hand of God in history, whether there’s something about Calvinist theology worth celebrating, and how the experience of being a parent might be the best insight of all into the nature of God.

David Holland is a Professor of New England Church History at Harvard Divinity School and a renowned scholar of American religious history. He earned a BA in history from BYU and a PhD from Stanford University. He is the author of Moroni: A Brief Theological Introduction, published by the Maxwell Institute and Sacred Borders: Continuing Revelation and Canonical Restraint in Early America, published by Oxford University Press in 2011.

131. The Burning Book — A Conversation with Jason Olson Sep 10, 2022

Show notes

For today’s episode, we were really excited to bring on Jason Olson, who, along with James Goldberg, is the author of a new memoir called The Burning Book.
Jason’s story is truly fascinating: he was born into a reform Jewish household with a Jewish mother and a Christian father. As a child and young person, he was always drawn to God and to religion, and found himself very involved in both study and practice in his faith. After his Bar Mitzvah at age 13, he eventually encountered some Latter-day Saint friends who, after many hours of religious discussions over a long period of time, offered him a copy of The Book of Mormon with no real expectations.
Afraid of what his family would think if they saw the book at home, and afraid of what his friends would think if they saw him carting it around, unread, he decided the best option would simply be to burn the book and destroy the evidence. But just as he was about to do so, Jason had a moment of remarkable spiritual insight — and that’s where his truly unique story begins.
Now a defense diplomat and policy officer with a Ph.D. in Near Eastern and Judaic studies, Jason came on with us to share his remarkable insights about faith, religious conversion, and God’s expansive plans across all faiths and religions.
The Burning Book was published by BCC Press, and you can find it on Amazon.
2023 Update: The Burning Book won the 2022 Association for Mormon Letters award in creative nonfiction.

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