Faith Lab

Faith Isn't Supposed to be Blind with Shane Rosenthal Jan 07, 2026

For most people, faith means believing without evidence. A leap. A feeling. Something you are told to accept rather than question.

But what if that is not what faith meant at all?

In this conversation, Nate and Shelby sit down with Shane Rosenthal to explore why the New Testament idea of faith was rooted in trust, eyewitness testimony, and public events rather than blind belief. They unpack how faith slowly became detached from evidence, why that shift matters, and how it helps explain why so many people deconstruct today.

This is not about winning arguments or turning Christianity into an academic exercise. It is about recovering a version of faith that expects questions, invites investigation, and gives real reasons to believe.

You can find Shane’s work at humbleskeptic.com, and be sure to check out this recent video he released on whether archaeologists have discovered biblical Bethsaida⁠.

If you have ever wondered why doubt feels inevitable, or why you were never taught this side of the story, this conversation is for you.

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Deconstruction Led Me Back to Christianity Dec 30, 2025

Nate Hanson reflects on his journey with the podcast Almost Heretical, discussing the process of deconstruction and how it led him to a deeper understanding of Christianity. He shares his experiences of doubt, the search for evidence, and the transition to a new show called Faith Lab, which aims to explore the historical and philosophical foundations of the Christian faith.

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#163 – Jeremiah Johnston: The Shroud of Turin Proves the Resurrection Jul 16, 2025

Could one ancient cloth change how we see the resurrection? Dr. Jeremiah Johnston joins us to unpack the Shroud of Turin, its baffling science, strange history, and the image that no one can explain.

Does this relic prove Jesus physically rose from the dead, or is it just a misunderstood artifact? We explore what happens when modern science collides with first-century faith.

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#162 – Why Didn't Jesus Write Anything Down? Jul 02, 2025

Shelby and Nate explore the intriguing question of why Jesus did not write anything down during his lifetime. They discuss the implications of this question on our understanding of faith and scripture, emphasizing the oral tradition of the time and the significance of Jesus' teachings in a present-tense context. The conversation also touches on the historical perspective of Jesus as a local rabbi and the lack of immediate written records from his followers, suggesting that the movement was seen as urgent and relevant to their time rather than a long-term religious institution.

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#161 – 6 Genesis Stories Read Politically May 28, 2025

What if the stories at the end of Genesis weren’t just family drama—but political storytelling?

In this episode, Nate and Shelby revisit six key moments from Genesis 27 to 50—including Jacob stealing Esau’s blessing, Dinah and Shechem, Judah and Tamar, and Joseph’s rise in Egypt—to explore how these stories may have been written to explain Israel’s political identity, tribal dynamics, and national origin.

We talk about:

Why Jacob and Esau’s rivalry reflects Israel vs. Edom
What Jacob’s wrestling match really says about the name "Israel"
How the story of Dinah might not be about justice at all
The subversive role of Tamar and why she’s called righteous
Why Joseph marrying an Egyptian priest’s daughter created tension later
And how Genesis closes by blessing tribes that already existed

These aren’t just ancient stories—they’re layered political texts that reveal how Israel saw itself and its neighbors. Join us as we read Genesis a little more historically, and a little more honestly.

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#160 – 5 Ways to Follow Jesus Without Paul May 07, 2025

→ Download the Practice Christianity Without Paul reflection booklet here (https://www.patreon.com/posts/jesus-faith-and-128319083)

→ Access the Paul-Free Church Statement of Faith (https://www.patreon.com/posts/church-statement-128321301)

What does it mean to be a Christian without Paul? In this series finale, we walk through five alternate paths the Jesus movement could have taken—and still can—without relying on Paul’s theology. From mystical wisdom to Jewish observance to political resistance, we explore practical ways to follow Jesus that aren’t rooted in Pauline doctrine. Nate and Shelby also unveil a brand new “Paul-Free” Statement of Faith and share a reflection booklet for premium members.

Paul Series:
Part 1 (https://www.patreon.com/posts/123045409)
Part 2 (https://www.patreon.com/posts/124165907)
Part 3 (https://www.patreon.com/posts/125186503)
Part 4 (https://www.patreon.com/posts/126248455)
Part 5 (https://www.patreon.com/posts/128318250)

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Chapters

00:00 Exploring the Existence of Paul and His Influence

12:06 Imagining Christianity Without Paul

22:28 The Ebionites and Early Christian Movements

23:26 Exploring Early Christian Beliefs

28:35 Potential Paths of Early Christianity

30:05 Modern Reflections on Following Jesus

37:36 Paths of Justice and Action

41:31 Reimagining Faith Without Paul

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#159 – Paul Made Christianity Apr 09, 2025

Bonus ep 1 - https://www.patreon.com/posts/bonus-what-is-123011688

Bonus ep 2 - https://www.patreon.com/posts/bonus-did-paul-125106095

Why does Paul’s voice dominate the New Testament? How did his letters become so central to Christian theology, and what happens when we begin to question that authority? Are all the Pauline epistles actually written by Paul? What if the Paul we know today is a constructed figure—reshaped by the church over time to fit emerging doctrines? And what about the voices that didn’t get amplified—texts like James or the Didache that present a very different version of the Jesus movement? Nate and Shel explore how canon formation, authorship debates, and theological evolution all intersect in the story of Paul, and why rethinking his role might change how we read the entire Bible. (Paul Part 1, Part 2, Part 3)

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Chapters

00:00 The Battle of the Texts

04:08 Paul's Authentic Letters

07:22 The Gospels and Their Influence

12:40 The Book of Acts: A Retrospective

28:25 The Jerusalem Movement's Legacy

29:19 The Jesus Movement vs. The Christ Movement

35:11 Understanding the Oral Tradition and Textual Limitations

41:23 The Impact of the Jewish-Roman War on Early Christianity

45:36 Exploring Alternative Early Christian Texts

48:20 The Canonization Process and Its Implications

53:31 Paul's Dominance in Early Christianity

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#158 – Why Paul's Churches Won Early Christianity Mar 26, 2025

What if Paul’s vision of Christ reshaped Christianity in ways Jesus’ own brother, James, never intended? In this episode, we explore the intense clash between Paul’s Christ movement and the Jesus movement, led by James in Jerusalem, as they battled over the faith’s direction. Paul’s independent gospel, born from a divine encounter, drove him to spread his message to Gentile cities like Corinth, Ephesus, and Rome, outpacing the Jewish-focused Jesus movement. As the Jerusalem community waned after the city’s fall in 70 AD, Paul’s universal vision took root, defining the Christianity we know today. Join Nate and Shelby as they uncover these pivotal shifts, question Paul’s authority, and ask: could the Jesus movement have changed history if it had prevailed? Tune in to rethink the origins of your faith.

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#apostlepaul #earlychristianity #biblepodcast

Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Christ Movement

03:03 Understanding Paul and His Background

05:31 The Conflict with Jerusalem Leadership

08:35 Paul's Independent Revelation

11:40 The Divergence of Movements

16:28 The Tension of Jewish Customs

19:01 The Jerusalem Council and Gentile Inclusion

22:45 Paul's Distinct Gentile Christianity

25:13 The Expansion of Paul's Movement

35:22 Grassroots Movement and Rituals

40:19 The Decline of the Jesus Movement

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#157 – James vs. Paul: The Battle in Early Christianity History Mar 12, 2025

(Part 1 here) Who should guide your faith—James, Jesus’ brother, or Paul, the visionary apostle? We dive into early Christianity history to explore a battle of beliefs. James rooted his leadership in the Jewish roots of Christianity, blending faith with works. Paul preached faith alone, shaping a global faith. We uncover their clash—faith and works: Paul vs James—through the Didache and the Ebionites’ rejection of Paul. Tune in to decide whose voice speaks to you today.

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#156 – Paul vs Jesus Feb 26, 2025

Paul contradicts Jesus, with the Apostles’ Creed skipping Jesus’ life... mirroring Paul’s letters that ignore his teachings and miracles. They share personal struggles with Paul’s towering influence on Christian theology and leadership, kicking off a must-hear series on Christianity’s origins.

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#155 – Sodom and Gomorrah, The Binding of Isaac, and Lot’s Wife Feb 12, 2025

Sodom and Gomorrah is one of the Bible’s most infamous stories, but was its destruction really about homosexuality? What does the Bible actually say about the sin of Sodom? And why did Abraham nearly sacrifice Isaac—was child sacrifice common in his time? Plus, what’s the real meaning behind Lot’s wife turning into a pillar of salt? We unpack these troubling Genesis stories, explore their ancient context, and reveal how Jewish interpreters wrestled with them for centuries.

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#154 – Dr. Andrew Perrin: Unlocking the Secrets of the Dead Sea Scrolls Feb 05, 2025

Listen to the after show with Dr. Perrin

In this engaging conversation, Dr. Andrew Perrin, an expert on the Dead Sea Scrolls, discusses the significance of these ancient texts and their impact on our understanding of the Bible. The dialogue explores the human element behind the texts, the intersection of faith and academia, and the importance of critical thinking in religious education. The conversation also touches on conspiracy theories surrounding the scrolls and the ongoing relevance of these discoveries in contemporary discussions about scripture and spirituality.

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#153 – Abraham: Who the Heck is Melchizedek? Jan 29, 2025

Listen to the Full Episode! Abraham’s story is packed with unexpected twists, but two figures often get overlooked—Melchizedek and Hagar. Who was Melchizedek, and why did New Testament authors care so much about him? What do the Dead Sea Scrolls reveal about his strange biblical role? And why does Hagar, an Egyptian slave woman, end up being the only person in the Bible to name God?

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#152 – Tony Jones: Hunting for Spirituality (Pt 1) Nov 27, 2024

➡︎ Listen to the after show

Tony Jones opens up about his journey from the pulpit to the wilderness, sharing how personal struggles led him to rediscover spirituality in nature. He challenges the ethics of modern meat consumption, advocates for mindful hunting, and critiques the church’s failure to support struggling pastors.

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Marianne Williamson (Full Episode) Nov 25, 2024

Listen to the after show

Marianne Williamson joins us to discuss the transformative power of love, her unique spiritual insights, and her take on political division in America. From her groundbreaking ideas in A Course in Miracles to being kept off the debate stage by the DNC, Marianne offers a thought-provoking conversation on faith, unity, and the path forward.

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#151 – Marianne Williamson: Choosing Love Over Political Division (Pt 2) Nov 20, 2024

Listen to the after show

Marianne Williamson opens up about her experiences running for president in 2020 and 2024, including how the DNC and media outlets like CNN silenced alternative voices, blocking fair competition for candidates like herself and RFK Jr. We also explore her perspective on choosing love over division in an era of political polarization, and the spiritual transformation needed to heal our fractured society. This conversation challenges us to rise above tribalism and embrace a deeper, more unifying approach to both faith and politics.

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Liz Charlotte Grant (Full Episode) Nov 14, 2024

Listen to the after show for our conversation with Liz Charlotte Grant as we explore deep questions around faith, gender, and scripture.

Liz challenges traditional views, examining God beyond a masculine lens and delving into the complexities of divine inspiration. Together, we discuss the struggles of women in ministry, the tension between tradition and spiritual independence, and the transformative power of therapy. Join us as we seek to understand God in new and unexpected ways. Visit her work at lizcharlotte.com.

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#150 – Marianne Williamson: Jesus as Our Guide (Pt 1) Nov 13, 2024

Listen to the after show: Is Jesus Just One Way?

Part 1 of 2: Marianne Williamson joins us to discuss her journey with A Course in Miracles and why its teachings are so relevant today. We dive into her reimagined view of Jesus, the meaning of salvation, and the role of love in shifting our mindsets. Marianne also challenges traditional views on heaven and hell, offering a perspective that’s both mystical and transformative. Find more of her work at marianne.com.

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#149 – The Election (Against Neo-Fundamentalism) Nov 06, 2024

In light of the 2024 presidential election between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris, we delve into the idea of “neo-fundamentalism”—the tendency to replace one rigid ideology with another after deconstruction. Join us as we explore how to hold space for complex, evolving beliefs and embrace wisdom and open dialogue over dogma.

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#148 – Is God male? (Liz Charlotte Grant, Pt 2) Oct 30, 2024

Listen to the aftershow

Part 2 of 2: Liz Charlotte Grant returns to delve even deeper into faith and scripture, questioning the Bible’s patriarchal interpretations and exploring whether divine inspiration is real. Join us as we discuss how gender influences our view of God, the tension between tradition and spiritual independence, and what it truly means to seek God in unexpected places. Visit her work at lizcharlotte.com.

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#147 – God as a Mother (Liz Charlotte Grant, Pt 1) Oct 23, 2024

Listen to the aftershow

Part 1 of 2: Liz Charlotte Grant joins us to challenge traditional views of faith, gender, and scripture. Together, we explore how God is portrayed beyond the masculine lens and dive into the transformative power of therapy, the struggles of women in ministry, and reimagining spiritual autonomy. Visit her work at lizcharlotte.com.

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#146 – Dana Hicks: Trading Conservative Dogma for Liberal Dogma Oct 09, 2024

Listen to the aftershow where we talk about kids, iPads, and spirituality

Dana Hicks discusses the journey from conservative pastor to deconstructing faith and redefining spirituality. We delve into how deconstruction can lead to trading conservative dogma for liberal dogma, the role of psychedelics in spiritual experiences, and the importance of awe in cultivating a deeper connection with the divine.

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#145 – Garrick Allen: Revelation Isn’t What You Think Sep 25, 2024

Listen to our after show where we talk about Garrick's thoughts on Pastors, Revelation and Hell

Dr. Garrick Allen uncovers truths about how the Book of Revelation has been misunderstood for centuries, reshaping our view of Scripture. Discover how ancient manuscripts and hidden texts challenge modern beliefs in unexpected ways.

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#144 – Jon Foreman: Faith and Doubt Jul 17, 2024

Listen to the Jon Foreman aftershow here.

Jon Foreman of Switchfoot (link) discusses the journey of faith, doubt, and the rejection of labels. We delve into the topics of deconstruction, being hurt by people claiming Christianity, and the complexities of using “Christian” as an adjective. We also explore the idea of embracing community over tribalism in today’s divided culture.

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#143 – Candida Moss (Part 2): Uncovering Biblical Authorship Mysteries Jul 03, 2024

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Candida Moss, a leading theology professor, returns for part two of our conversation, diving into her groundbreaking research on the manuscript traditions and writing processes of the New Testament. Discover how dictation, collaboration, and the roles of enslaved individuals shaped the creation of early Christian texts. Learn how this reshapes our understanding of biblical authorship and the intricate process behind the Gospels. Get Candida’s book God's Ghostwriters.

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#142 – Candida Moss (Part 1): Enslaved Authors of Christianity Jun 12, 2024

Listen to the After Show

Candida Moss is a leading theology professor, about her groundbreaking research on the enslaved Christians who helped create the New Testament. Discover how this reshapes our understanding of biblical inspiration, ancient authorship, and Christianity’s historical complicity in slavery. Get Candida's book God's Ghostwriters.

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#141 – Rethinking the Tower of Babel Jun 05, 2024

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In this bonus episode of Almost Heretical, Nate Hanson and Shelby dive into the story of the Tower of Babel from Genesis 11. They discuss its significance, the cultural context, and various interpretations, including its implications for language and unity. Join them as they explore how this ancient story relates to contemporary issues of pride, diversity, and unity. This episode offers fresh insights and reimagines a well-known biblical tale in a new light.

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#140 – Frank Kenny: Unveiling the God of War May 22, 2024

Listen to the Frank Kenny after show!

How has our understanding of God evolved over time? Nate & Shelby talk with Frank Kenny about his book, The God of War: How an Ancient God Shaped a Modern World (link), exploring the historical contexts and conflicts that have shaped modern Christianity.

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#139 – Brian McLaren: Christianity Beyond Belief May 08, 2024

Listen to the after show for the Brian episode where we talk about why the Church tries to control beliefs

What if being a Christian wasn't about what you believed? Nate & Shelby talk with Brian McLaren about his influential works, including Do I Stay Christian? and his latest, Life After Doom.

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#138 – Olivia Jackson: Why Christians Deconstruct Apr 24, 2024

Listen to the after show where we talk about favorite books, women missionaries, and being anti-academia

Olivia Jackson interviewed hundreds of Christians about their deconstruction experience. We talk about why people changed their faith. Is it different in America compared to the UK, Australia, etc? Olivia's book.

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#137 – Tim Alberta: Reject Trump, Embrace Jesus Apr 17, 2024

Listen to the after show where Nate & Shelby talk about Tim's more traditional beliefs... Why did they have Tim on?

Tim Alberta reflects on how his Christian upbringing shapes his approach to politics, emphasizing critical thought over tribalism. He advocates for a church response that mirrors Christ's love and grace, facing societal challenges with a focus on the eternal kingdom of God. This episode explores restoring the church's mission as an agent of healing and social welfare. Tim's book is The Kingdom, The Power, and the Glory.

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#136 – Tiffany Yecke Brooks: Spiritual Anxiety & Religious Trauma Apr 10, 2024

Listen to the after show where Nate & Shelby debrief and shore more thoughts about this conversation with Tiffany

Tiffany Yecke Brooks discusses her evolution from fundamentalist roots, questioning long-held doctrines, and identifying spiritual anxiety as a trauma response. She advocates for reinterpreting biblical stories and emphasizes the importance of self-trust and questioning authority within religious contexts. Her insights encourage a deeper, more personal exploration of faith, free from the constraints of traditional interpretations and control. Tiffany's website.

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#135 – Thomas Jay Oord: Open Relational Theology Apr 03, 2024

Listen to the Utterly Heretical after show episode that Nate & Shelby recorded debriefing this conversation with Thomas Jay Oord

Dr. Thomas Jay Oord delves into open relational theology, highlighting a non-controlling, relational God and rethinking traditional omnipotence. Check out his book God After Deconstruction with Tripp Fuller. We addresses deconstruction, the afterlife, and inclusivity beyond Christianity. Oord's perspective challenges conventional views on prayer, spirituality, and divine interaction, advocating for a faith that embraces questioning and experiential understanding of the divine.

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#134 – Dr. Laura Anderson: Sex, Dating, Courtship and Trauma Mar 20, 2024

Listen to the 20-minute Utterly Heretical after show episode that Nate & Shelby recorded debriefing this conversation with Dr. Laura Anderson

Dr. Laura Anderson tackles religious trauma, explaining it as our physiological response to religious experiences, distinct from the events themselves. She critiques purity culture for its detrimental effects on personal development and relationships, advocating for a more nuanced understanding of the Bible and recognizing its flaws. The conversation extends to the challenges churches face in addressing trauma, the variety of Christian views on mental health, and navigating relationships amid political and religious differences.

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#133 – David Fitch: Is God's Love Coercive? Mar 13, 2024

Listen to the extra 20-minute Utterly Heretical episode that Nate & Shelby recorded debriefing this conversation with David.

Does Hell or even annihilationism mean that God's love is coercive? David Fitch (author of Reckoning With Power) debates with Nate and Shelby about whether we can call God's love "non-coercive".

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#132 – Elaine Pagels: Trump and Doubting Thomas Mar 06, 2024

Elaine Pagels presents the compelling theory that the Gospel of John might have intentionally silenced the Gospel of Thomas. This interview not only explores the hidden gospels but also challenges us to rethink the foundational narratives of Christianity through the insights of Elaine Pagels.

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#131 – Peter Rollins: The Philosophy of Deconstruction Feb 28, 2024

We sit down with philosopher and theologian Peter Rollins to explore the intricate landscape of faith, doubt, and the philosophy of deconstruction. Rollins discusses the importance of embracing our uncertainties and the transformative power of questioning traditional religious narratives. Through a deep dive into philosophical theology, we uncover how deconstructing our beliefs can lead to a more authentic and profound understanding of our spirituality and ourselves.

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#130 – Anna Gazmarian: Religious OCD and Mental Illness Feb 21, 2024

Listen to the full, unedited episode with extra 15 minutes

Anna Gazmarian shares her profound journey of doubting faith, getting fired from a church, sexual assault, and confronting her mental health diagnosis within the church. How does faith intersect with the challenges of Religious OCD, scrupulosity and mental health? Discover her path to understanding and acceptance.

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#129 – Did Noah's Ark Actually Happen? Feb 14, 2024

If the Bible isn't about being true or false, then what is the point of stories like Noah's Ark?

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#128 – Nephilim and Gender Dynamics (Genesis 6:1-4) Feb 07, 2024

Curious about the Nephilim and the "sons of God" mentioned in Genesis 6:1-4? Join Nate and Shelby as they delve into ancient texts like the Book of Enoch, exploring the implications these stories have on gender dynamics and biblical narratives.

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#127 – Eve and the Apple (Genesis 3) Sep 27, 2023

Join us as we delve into Genesis 3 and explore its long-lasting impact on women. We'll tackle big questions like: Did God really say what we've been told? And why isn’t the serpent identified as Satan? We’ll discuss how much of what we believe comes from Paul's interpretations and how this story has shaped women’s experiences, especially around leadership. Get ready for an eye-opening chat about challenging old notions and seeing this story in a new light!

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#126 – Marriage, Gender, and Homosexuality (Genesis 2:24) Sep 20, 2023

Is Genesis 2:24 an institution of heterosexual marriage? Does it matter? In this episode, we tackle these questions and play devil's advocate to help you respond to the pushback you may be facing. We challenge traditional views and ask: How should we use the Bible today? Tune in as we navigate the complex landscape of faith, marriage, and sexuality.

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#125 – Rethinking Adam and Eve (Genesis 2:7) Sep 13, 2023

Did you ever wonder why Satan is never mentioned in the Garden of Eden? Prepare to have your mind blown as we dive into the untold complexities of Genesis 2:1-18. This episode uncovers surprising interpretations, challenges common myths, and may forever change the way you look at the creation story. Don't miss out; it's time to rethink what you thought you knew about Adam, Eve, and the Garden.

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#124 – How was light created before the sun? (Genesis 1:6-31) Aug 09, 2023

What have we been missing in the creation story? What does the Sun being created before “Light” mean? Why do we have two different creation stories? Join us as we reexamine Genesis 1:6-31.

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#123 – Rainn Wilson: Spirituality and the Meaning of Life Jul 19, 2023

We dive deep into spirituality and societal transformation with Rainn Wilson, renowned actor and author of Soul Boom. Join us as we explore the pressing need for a spiritual revolution in today's challenging world. Discover practical spiritual tools for personal and collective growth, as Rainn shares his insights on the lost essence of spirituality, the power of early Christian movement in Acts, the impact of societal movements like Black Lives Matter, and the importance of hope in an increasingly cynical world. Get ready to ponder profound questions such as, "When did the West lose spirituality?", "What is the motivation to love?", and even "What would Dwight Schrute think of Soul Boom?"

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#122 – Neil deGrasse Tyson: Christianity and the Cosmos Jun 14, 2023

Listen to a whole hour of Neil deGrasse Tyson talking about the Bible, Jesus, and Christianity in a way you've probably not heard before. Neil is the author of Starry Messenger, host of StarTalk and director of the Hayden Planetarium in NYC.

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#121 – Many Creation Stories (Genesis 1:1-5) May 31, 2023

(Listen to Part 2) – In Genesis 1:1-5, we encounter intriguing aspects that invite deeper reflection. We explore the use of the pronoun "us" in the early chapters, raising questions about its connection to the Trinity and the presence of Jesus in the garden. Additionally, we debunk the notion of strict sentence structure when reading the passage in Hebrew, uncovering its poetic nature. And we challenge the idea of a perfect heaven by considering alternative perspectives.

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#120 – Sex, Orgasm, Masturbation and Purity Culture with Sheila Gregoire May 17, 2023

In this episode of Almost Heretical, we dive into a candid conversation about sex and purity culture with special guest Sheila Gregoire, author of "The Great Sex Rescue." Join us as we explore the harmful effects of purity culture, its impact on individuals' relationships and sexuality, and the importance of a healthy and holistic approach to sexual education.

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#119 – Sarah Bessey: Evolving Faith May 03, 2023

In this episode, we speak with Sarah Bessey about the idea of evolving faith and its accompanying challenges. We dive into what it means to have faith during times of change and whether there are any limits to that change. Additionally, we explore the influence of Rachel Held Evans on Sarah's personal faith journey and what insights we might be missing from Rachel's voice in the present day. Finally, we discuss how evolving faith intersects with the idea of Christian orthodoxy and the role of community in supporting those who are wrestling with difficult questions.

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#118 – Deconstructing Worship Music Apr 19, 2023

(Listen to the second half of this chat with Sam here.) The final episode of the Worship series, with Sam Hedrick - a worship leader at Cascade Church in Portland, Oregon and songwriter who has been going through a process of deconstruction while continuing to write music for the church. Sam shares his experience of grappling with doubts and difficult questions while also feeling a sense of responsibility to provide a space for worship and connection for others. Listen to Sam's music on Spotify.

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#117 – William Matthews: The Evolution of Worship Apr 05, 2023

(Watch the full uncut version of this episode). What does worship look like when you're questioning, leaving, or changing your faith? How can we bring everything back to our humanness, and what role does incarnation play in that? And what happens when we stop chasing after revival and focus on the wildness of the Spirit of God? Join us for a conversation with William Matthews (Spotify | Instagram), former worship leader at Bethel, as we explore these questions and more on Almost Heretical.

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#116 – Worship: Revisiting the Melodies of Our Past Mar 22, 2023

Welcome to the Worship series. After our faith evolution, we now have a complicated relationship with worship music. Join us as we sing three songs (The Heart of Worship, How He Loves, and The Stand) on the worship songs that once filled our hearts and churches. Delve into how our changing theology and feelings have transformed our relationship with these songs. Embark on a musical journey that reflects our faith's evolution and reexamines the role of worship in our lives.

Intro music by Sam Hedrick (Spotify | Instagram)

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#115 – Name the Women of the Bible: 16 Notable & Forgotten Biblical Women Mar 08, 2023

In honor of #InternationalWomensDay, we’re highlighting 16 notable and forgotten women of the Bible, uncovering their stories from both canonical scripture and lesser-known texts like the Apocrypha, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and Second Temple writings. Many of these women named in the Bible have been overlooked or erased, yet they played significant roles in shaping biblical narratives. Their voices, though often marginalized, offer a deeper understanding of the cultural and historical context of scripture.

We explore the stories of Mary Magdalene, Miriam, Vashti, Judith, Susanna, Huldah, Anna, and the Woman at the Well, as well as lesser-known figures like Batanoosh, Aseneth, Emzara, and the women connected to the Nephilim. These women were prophets, warriors, leaders, and visionaries whose impact extends far beyond their brief mentions in scripture. By rediscovering their stories, we reclaim their significance and challenge traditional narratives that have long ignored their contributions.

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#114 – Teaching Your Kids While Deconstructing Christianity Feb 22, 2023

What if I still want to pass on faith to my children, but I'm not sure what I believe? What do kids need to be learning about Christianity at different stages? What do kids have to teach us about holding uncertainty. We talk with Sarah Swartzendruber, a pastor passionate about empowering parents in deconstruction to create spiritual practices for their kids.

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#113 – Cindy Wang Brandt: Raising Children During a Spiritual Transition Feb 08, 2023

Parenting & Deconstruction Part 1: Do formerly fundamentalist parents project their own trauma on their children? What kind of “stability” do kids of deconstructing parents actually need? Is it okay to not ever get community back? Nate and Shelby discuss this all and more with Cindy Wang Brandt, the author of Parenting Forward and You Are Revolutionary.

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#112 – From Outreach to Outsider: Katherine's Story Jan 25, 2023

In this episode, we hear from listener Katherine about her disillusionment with Christianity due to Trump, hell, and bad biblical interpretations on women. What was your breaking point? Join us as we discuss the cracks in our experience of Christianity and explore how to move forward.

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#111 – Canon: Extra-Canonical Text Jan 11, 2023

What kinds of texts were rejected from the New Testament canon? Are extra-canonical texts as dangerous and bad as we used to think? How does history and archaeology affect how we read the Bible today? We wrap up the Canon series diving into these questions and more as we seek to discover better ways to approach biblical and non-biblical texts and use them today.

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#110 – Canon: The Criteria of the New Testament Dec 07, 2022

How did the early church determine which texts would go into the canon and which would not? Are all texts outside the New Testament heretical or dangerous? Does the truth of the canon formation process change how we think about the Bible we have? Nate & Shelby look at how we got the books we have in our bibles and debunk some myths about the process.

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#109 – Canon: Is the Bible Inspired, Inerrant and Infallible? Oct 19, 2022

Is the Bible the inspired words of God? What does it mean for the Bible to be infallible? If the Bible isn't inerrant, is it worthless? Nate & Shelby continue to explore the canonization of the New Testament Bible. How did we get the Bible that we have? In this episode, we answer listener questions and dive into what the "word of God" means.

Notes:

Do the scriptures claim to be inspired?

2 Timothy 3:16 (theopneustos = "giving by inspiration of God")
1 Thessalonians 2:13
John 17:17
Revelation 22:18

What do we mean by inspired?

Psalm 19

What did the ancient authors in the early church mean by inspired?

Book: A High View of Scripture by Craig D. Allert

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#108 – Canon: Timeline of New Testament Writings Sep 07, 2022

When were the documents of the New Testament written? Does it matter that details of the Gospels changed over time? What did “Bible,” “scripture,” or “canon” even mean in the first century? In this new series, Nate and Shelby dive into the formation of the New Testament canon. This episode examines the order in which the gospels were written and how we see changes and developments over time.

Notes:

Pilot's Guilt in Crucifixion of Jesus:

Mark 15:1-15
Matthew 27:11-26
Luke 23:3-27
John 18:28 - John 19:16

Where does Jesus' divinity begin in each gospel?:

Mark 1:9-11
Matthew 1:18 - Matthew 2:23
Luke 2
John 1:1-14

More stories to watch progress over time through Mark, Matthew, Luke, then John:

Woman who anoints Jesus
Peter's denial
Resurrection

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What is Almost Heretical? Aug 31, 2022

Do you feel alone and crazy as you reimagine your faith? There are so many people on this journey or reexamining Christian faith and doctor, and we provide resources to help you see the Bible in its true ancient and history context.

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#107 – The January 6th intersection of politics and religion Aug 04, 2022

In the aftermath of the Capitol insurrection on January 6, a prayer was said by the perpetrators in the Senate chamber. The shocking words of that prayer left us stunned. Join us as we dissect the implications and response to this prayer in our latest episode.

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#106 – Barbara Brown Taylor: Religious Pluralism May 11, 2022

Join us for a thought-provoking discussion on religious pluralism as we interview Reverend Barbara Brown Taylor, author of Holy Envy: Finding God in the Faith of Others. Explore the possibility of Christianity coexisting with other religions and how we can learn from them to become better humans. We also dive into John 14:6 (“I am the way, the truth and the life) and its implications. Don't miss out on this enlightening conversation!

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#105 – Matt Chandler's Views on Deconstruction Apr 27, 2022

What are pastors getting wrong about deconstruction? Do we need more grace for church abuse? Is there ever a good reason to leave church? Nate and Shelby listen to a recent sermon by Matt Chandler of The Village Church and Acts 29 where he talks about the problems with people deconstructing their faith and leaving their church.

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#104 – Woman: Jesus, Paul and Mary Magdalene Apr 06, 2022

Was Jesus a perfect example of how to treat women? Did Paul actually tell women to be silent in church? Why did Mary Magdalene disappear after the four gospels? Nate and Shelby conclude the Woman series by examining texts from both inside and outside the New Testament.

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#103 – Woman: Sexual violence and God's silence Mar 23, 2022

Why is the rate of sexual violence the same inside and outside the Church? Does God condone rape in the Old Testament? What has the Bible taught us about the value of women's bodies? In this episode, we look at some harder passages in the Bible and take issue with the response attributed to God.

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#102 – Woman: Silenced voices of the Bible Mar 02, 2022

How can the Dead Sea Scrolls help us recover women's voices? What are the implications of women's voices making up 1% of the Bible? Was the first #MeToo movement really 2,000 years ago? Let's dig into extra-biblical texts to shine a light on what is missing from the Bible.

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#101 – What Bible translation should I use? (Bonus Episode Preview) Feb 23, 2022

This is a clip from a patron-exclusive episode of our second podcast called Utterly Heretical.

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#100 – Woman: Men wrote the Bible Feb 09, 2022

What does it change knowing that the authors of the Bible were men? What about gender-neutral translations? Have we missed a foundational part of Jesus' gospel? Nate and Shelby look through the lens of Woman to turn our focus on the Bible itself.

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#99 – Woman: The Gender of God Jan 20, 2022

Why do we call God "He"? What if Paul was wrong about women having authority over men? What do we lose by treating God like a single father? In the Woman series, we reframe the foundations of how we see God and the Bible and discuss how the Bible how shaped our perspective of women. We must change the way we think in order to shape the way forward.

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#98 – Audrey Assad - Psychedelics, Christian Music and Parenting Apr 28, 2021

What does it feel like to change your beliefs? What can we teach our children when we're not sure what we believe? Nate talks to Audrey Assad who was part of creating and then leaving the evangelical culture through conservative Christian music.

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#97 – Dr. Mario Livio - Galileo and science deniers Mar 24, 2021

Why is science denialism more prominent in the Christian church? What are the consequences of suppressing scientific curiosity in the Church? How do we have conversations with friends and family who deny scientific findings and new information? Nate talks with world renowned astrophysicist Dr. Mario Livio about his new book Galileo: And the Science Deniers.

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#96 – Krispin and D.L. Mayfield: Mister Rogers, Dave Ramsey and Attachment Theory Mar 10, 2021

Why is Mister Rogers' message to children better than Sunday school? How did Dave Ramsey make the accusation of money a christian value? How can Attachment Theory shine a light on shame-filled messages we often hear in the church? Nate sits down with his friends Danielle and Krispin Mayfield to discuss all of this and more. You can also check out Krispin's podcast Attached to the Invisible and their joint podcast The Prophetic Imagination Station.

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#95 – Julie Anne Smith - Spiritual and Sexual Abuse Feb 24, 2021

In light of the scandal involving Ravi Zacharias, Nate talks with Julie Anne Smith about Lori Anne Thompson's survivor story and power structures in the Church that allow for both spiritual and sexual abuse. What are good comebacks to many of the common responses we hear from Christian's about sexual abuse scandals? What needs to change to break this cycle? We get into all of that.

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#94 – Kristin Du Mez: From Jesus to Trump Feb 10, 2021

How did a suffering servant named Jesus of Nazareth lead to Christians in America electing and defending someone so opposite in Donald Trump? When and why did voting Pro Life become the main issue in evangelicalism? For all of us that see the problems with Trumpism and evangelicalism already, where do we go from here? Nate talks with Dr. Kristin Du Mez about her book Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation.

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#93 – What happened in 2020 Feb 03, 2021

Why did we take a break from the show for almost a year? Nate and Tim share about what happened to them personally in 2020 and talk about what is coming next for the show.

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#92 – Unequally yoked Mar 18, 2020

What does it even mean to be unequally yoked? And does any part of the New Testament actually forbid Christians getting married to people who aren’t Christian? And if so, why?

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#91 – The Disappointment of the Spirit Mar 11, 2020

God’s spirit living inside of our bodies. That is the central, climactic idea of the New Testament. But what if this grand climax also turned out to be a little disappointing? And what if much of the New Testament actually seems to acknowledge and deal with that disappointment?

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#90 – Sacrifice after Jesus Feb 26, 2020

How did the early church think about the Levitical system and sacrifices after Jesus? Nate and Tim discuss this common and problematic question while seeking to avoid antisemitic supersessionism and find a more sensible understanding of things.

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#89 – Shower first, spirit second Feb 12, 2020

Is baptism really just a bath? Does God really only forgive ignorant people? What is the order of operations related to atonement? Nate and Tim respond to a few more listener questions.

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#88 – Atonement must be Universal Feb 05, 2020

Nate and Tim respond to a few listener questions, discussing how forgiveness itself is tied to liberation as well as why universal atonement isn’t just a possibility but a necessity.

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#87 – What Does Ransom Mean? Jan 29, 2020

What does holiness and chemical atonement have to do with liberation and ransom? Did Jesus pay a ransom price, and if so, to who? And how might we better synthesize these various ways of describing what Jesus accomplished? (We even get into The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe and how C.S. Lewis portrays the ransom theory in Narnia.)

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#86 – Chemistry and Scapegoats Jan 22, 2020

What do ancient science, the “scapegoat” of Yom Kippur, and holy tree branches have to do with Jesus’ death? And what does resurrection have to do with everything? Nate and Tim continue discussing how the contagious nature of holiness undergirds much of the New Testament theology about Jesus and discover some fascinating ideas along the way.

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#85 – Did Jesus have to die? Jan 15, 2020

Did Jesus have to die, or is that not even how we should think about it? And why is blood both a source of holiness and defilement? Also, what do menstruation, “nocturnal emissions” and masturbation have to do with each other in Leviticus? Nate and Tim discuss a few listener questions as well as some of their own.

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#84 – Holiness is the Gospel Jan 08, 2020

Holiness and purity were two of the central concerns of the entire Levitical system. Neither were moral categories, but rather had to do with something like chemical states. In this episode, Nate and Tim discuss the idea of holiness and how the New Testament authors believed the gospel was that Jesus had made the world holy.

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#83 – Hillary McBride: Getting healthy Dec 11, 2019

Many of us are rethinking faith and leaving old beliefs behind, but how do we get healthy? Nate and Tim talk with Dr. Hillary McBride about what it actually takes to build new community, how to deal with the trauma our bodies carry, why maintaining relationships with people from our past can be so hard, and much more.

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#82 – Why blood? Dec 04, 2019

Why all the blood in the Old Testament? There is actually an important bit of ancient science underlying the whole idea of sacrifice and atonement. Also, what happens if we just can’t believe that science?

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#81 – Contagious Nov 13, 2019

Why sacrifice animals? Why send some people outside the camp? Why all the rules? Nate and Tim discuss how the threat of viral contagion is the primary principal underlying the Levitical system, and how that is why the Torah talks so much about separation and mixture. When anything comes into contact with something “unclean”, the defilement spreads. Therefore, prevention, quarantine and cleansing are the name of the game. But is it possible there’s even more going on? Is it possible something could be so holy that it cannot be defiled? And what if that is precisely how the gospels depict Jesus?

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#80 – Cosmic campout Nov 06, 2019

What all is required in order to camp out with God? And what is holiness anyway? Nate and Tim discuss all this and more, including why there are so many long lists of detailed instructions in the Torah and how to read them. Also, what do the golden calf, Nadab and Abihu, and the tragedy of Uzzah and the cart all have in common?

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#79 – Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg - Forgiveness and Pharisees Oct 30, 2019

On the 1-year anniversary of the Tree of Life Synagogue massacre in Pittsburgh, we sit down with Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg.What constitutes a good apology? How do we appreciate both forgiveness and justice at the same time? And what can we learn from the Jewish tradition about how to disagree, change our minds, and embrace both the old and the new? Also, we get into how Jesus might have actually been a Pharisee.

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#78 – Priests are holy bouncers Oct 23, 2019

Did you know that Adam and Eve worked as security guards in the Garden of Eden? And what does it mean to be a priest? And once again, why is there a snake in the garden? Nate and Tim discuss the role of priests and how Genesis 2 depicts Adam as a priest representing Israel.

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#77 – God might kill us Oct 16, 2019

Are we supposed to be afraid of God? Why did the ancient Israelites fear the Lord? What was it that scared them exactly? Nate and Tim discuss how we may have gotten this all very wrong for a long time and maybe we shouldn’t be so scared after all.

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#76 – Distance and Separation Oct 09, 2019

The New Testament claims Jesus is helping reconcile humanity and God, but why were they ever separated in the first place? Does God want to separate from us because we’re awful, or is there something entirely different going on? Nate and Tim discuss the biblical authors’ surprising assumptions about why God is so distant and what is actually required to bridge the gap.

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#75 – Blood and Guilt Oct 02, 2019

What were the sacrifices for? What did blood do? What is the main problem which the tabernacle and temple and then Jesus were trying to solve? Nate and Tim introduce a new series on Leviticus, atonement, and the crazy idea of blood as a kind of cosmic insulation. In this first part, they highlight some of the big ideas soon to be discussed and reflect on why it matters.

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#74 – Should you go to church? (Bonus Episode) Sep 25, 2019

This is an episode of Utterly Heretical, Nate and Tim’s second podcast for Patreon supporters. They have a candid conversation about the emotionally complicated topic of going to church.

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#73 – Did Jesus just call her a dog? Sep 18, 2019

Did Jesus really call a Canaanite woman a dog? Was this as heartless and mean as it sounds, or is something else going on? Nate and Tim discuss this startling passage in Matthew 15 and more.

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#72 – The clearly unclear Bible Sep 11, 2019

If the Bible is clearly sufficient for all our needs and sufficiently clear so that we can understand it, why doesn’t it feel that way? Nate and Tim discuss the history of these ideas, the role they’ve played, and whether or not they’re still helpful today. Once again it all seems to come down to power - who has it? Or, as they ask in this episode, “Who is the pope?” (More)

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#71 – Who is the Bible? Sep 04, 2019

When we say, “The Bible says,” what do we really mean? Who exactly are we talking about? Nate and Tim try to answer that question and more as they discuss the relationship between the people who wrote the Bible and our own modern ethics. (More)

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#70 – Choose your own adventure Bible Jul 24, 2019

What if many of the texts are written in order to place us at a crossroads between two valid interpretations? And how does understanding the Bible as a mosaic of texts help us deal with troubling passages in the OT? Nate and Tim reflect on why reading the Bible is more complicated than taking it “literally” or not. LISTEN TO THE PARENTING EPISODES HERE.

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#69 – Does the Bible Permit Exploitation? (Part 2) Jul 10, 2019

Does the Bible justify or permit exploitation? While some passages condemn it, others raise difficult questions about ancient biblical laws and power dynamics. In this episode, Nate and Tim explore the David and Bathsheba story, examine key Bible verses, and discuss how these texts have been interpreted over time. LISTEN TO TIM'S LIST HERE. (More)

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#68 – Bathsheba and David: A Story of Power and Betrayal (Part 1) Jun 26, 2019

Did David abuse his power over Bathsheba? In this episode, Nate and Tim take a closer look at one of the most debated stories in the Bible. This is the first part of a conversation on difficult narratives in Scripture, exploring power dynamics, consent, and how we interpret ancient texts. They discuss the David and Bathsheba story, the role of troubling accounts in the Hebrew Bible, and why context matters. (More)

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#67 – Christena Cleveland: Toxic Christianity Jun 12, 2019

At some point we have to ask ourselves do I really want to be free? Freedom is no longer caring whether we’re crossing the lines that other people are creating for us.

Nate and Tim sit down with renowned scholar Dr. Christena Cleveland. They discuss getting free from toxic Christianity, finding sustenance for a life of activism, what the gospel really is and much more. Dr. Cleveland also shares what she believes the gospel is for black trans women. It’s brilliant and beautiful!

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#66 – LGBTQ: Why do people marry? Jun 05, 2019

Did God really define marriage? Or is it just something people have often done? And what did Jesus really say about men and women? Nate and Tim continue the conversation about whether the Bible ever asserts a divine ideal for marriage. (More)

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#65 – LGBTQ: The so-called Divine Ideal May 31, 2019

Is the Bible even about a return to original ideals? Or is the idea that of a forward march through history where humans partner with God to usher in new and unknown territory? Nate and Tim begin a discussion on sexuality and gender, asking whether the so-called divine ideal for marriage is really a good argument in defense of traditional views.

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#64 – Rob Bell - Outside the camp May 15, 2019

We ask Rob Bell what it felt like to hear "Farewell Rob Bell" by John Piper after writing Love Wins and what he wants to be remembered as when he's gone. Plus, we get to lots of our Patron's questions, like what does Rob think the word "Christian" means? (More)

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#63 – Rachel Held Evans tribute May 05, 2019

In memory of Rachel Held Evans. Woman of Valor. #becauseofRHE #SaintRachel

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#62 – The Heaven Ethic Apr 24, 2019

The Bible’s cosmology can be weird and hard to believe. What is there for us if we can’t get excited about ruling over angels? Nate and Tim wrestle with this question, discussing the profound and practical strategy that Paul and the early Christians took from all this craziness, which is the ethic of relinquishing power. (More)

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#61 – Bodies for Both Worlds Apr 17, 2019

This is where things start to get weird. Nate and Tim look at the Bible’s strange hope that humanity would one day come to rule not only on earth but over the gods in the heavens. And to Paul, for that to happen, we’ll need bodies fit for inhabiting both heaven and earth simultaneously. This one got so nutty and went so long that it had to be split into two parts, so look out for the second half in the next episode. (More)

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#60 – Heaven as a Revolution Apr 03, 2019

God will one day lead a revolution to overturn the power structures of the world. The biblical writers call this "heaven." Those at the bottom will be put at the top and vice versa, and it may have nothing to do with how good or righteous we are. The conversation leads to more questions and even some concerns, which Nate and Tim begin to address.

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#59 – I'll fly away, old glory Mar 27, 2019

Did you used to picture flying away to be in heaven? Or, maybe you've thought of new creation as what heaven is. After spending 3 episodes talking about hell, Nate & Tim work to complicate the conception of heaven, in keeping with the biblical writers. (More)

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#58 – Who the hell knows (Hell Part 3) Mar 20, 2019

What if Matthew and Luke imagine life after death differently? And why don’t Paul or John ever mention anything like Hell? And lastly, if there is no consensus on a singular notion of Hell, then how the hell ought we to think and feel about all this? In Part 3, Nate and Tim further examine the complexity and inconsistency in the so-called “Biblical worldview” on Hell. (More)

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#57 – To hell with hell Mar 13, 2019

Where did "hell" come from? What is Sheol? Hades? Gehenna? And who goes to these places (or are they are even places?) In Part 2, Nate and Tim look at several passages in the scriptures to begin analyzing how various authors conceived of what we’ve come to call Hell. We’ll see how our idea of Hell is actually an amalgam of various concepts related to multiple different questions.

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#56 – Scared to Death (Hell Part 1) Mar 06, 2019

Many of us are terrified of Hell, but should we be? Is Christianity supposed to ease our anxieties around death or exasperate them? And is Hell really about torture? In this first conversation in a series on Hell, Nate and Tim ditch the Bible and traditional ideas for a bit to try to imagine the theoretical possibilities for some sort of future judgment. (More)

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#55 – Wade Mullen - Church abuse and cover-up Feb 27, 2019

Tim interviews Wade Mullen (@wad3mullen), a professor who researches the ways evangelical churches and organizations try to cover up abuse and protect their image. In a conversation that hits a little close to home, Tim and Wade discuss why both abuse and the cover-up of abuse are so prevalent in evangelical churches and how to know if your church and its leaders are lying to you.

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#54 – Brandi Miller: Racial Justice and Evangelicalism Feb 06, 2019

It took Brandi ten years of following Jesus as a Black woman to realize that her theology was whiter than a North Dakota snowstorm. Nate and Tim talk with writer and minister Brandi Miller about pursuing racial justice within evangelicalism, what the gospel really is, how American Christianity trains people to be controlled, and much more.

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#53 – John Piper says to marry the bible Jan 30, 2019

John Piper, Desiring God and The Gospel Coalition say things like "Marry the Bible". Have we made an idol out of the Bible? In the third segment of question and response, Nate and Tim discuss whether the story of the Exodus ought to be taken literally, whether Christianity has made an idol out of the Bible, and more.

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#52 – Is divine healing real? Jan 23, 2019

Is it your responsibility to call out your racist uncle? Does God heal people and is it helpful to believe that? Are the women heroes in the Bible messiah figures? Nate and Tim continue responding to your questions.

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#51 – Why do Christian's evangelize? Jan 16, 2019

Should we try to get as many people to be Christians as possible? This week we respond to listener questions about evangelism and the great commission. Also, what churches did they work for? And beyond penal substitution, what are more positive ways to share the gospel?

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#50 – 1 year in Jan 09, 2019

In 2018, we launched the podcast and recorded 49 episodes. Nate and Tim reflect on what they've learned.

Top 10 episodes:

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#49 – Making Hezekiah Great Again Dec 19, 2018

Have you ever thought about Hezekiah as one of the main characters in the Old Testament? And what if we told you that the child named Immanuel spoken of in Isaiah referred not to Jesus but to Hezekiah (at least at first)? Nate and Tim look again at the literary technique of “snowballing” and discuss how biblical characters and even biblical texts are presented as disappointing failures that will have to be recycled and repurposed in the future.

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#48 – Old Testament jerks Dec 12, 2018

Ever notice how all the “good guys” in the Old Testament turn out to be jerks? Tim and Nate talk about a narrative technique Tim calls “snowballing”, where the Biblical authors intentionally try to get us excited about each new hero figure, only to let us down in the end. It is this pattern that allowed Jesus to look back and say all these stories pointed to him.

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#47 – Tim Mackie: Homosexuality and the Bible (Part 2) Dec 05, 2018

Listen to the full interview here.

(Also, listen to PART 1 here.) Dr. Tim Mackie (Bible Project) talks about LGBTQ and the bible, and continues talking with Nate and Tim about the Bible and ethics. Does the Bible end conversations about ethics or start them?

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#46 – Tim Mackie - Deconstructing Christianity and the Bible (Part 1) Nov 28, 2018

Listen to the full interview here.

(Also, listen to PART 2 here.) Dr. Tim Mackie (Bible Project) talks with Tim and Nate about the often missed literary designs in the Bible. What kind of patterns and repetitions do we often overlook? And what does it mean that the Bible contains riddles and texts with multiple meanings?

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#45 – Why Seams & Stitching Matter Nov 01, 2018

All the talk about stitching and literary complexity got Nate and Tim talking about why this stuff even matters. What does thinking of the Bible as a literary mosaic change? How does paying attention to redaction and arrangement affect our views of Christianity and how we relate to one another?

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#44 – Ancient Scroll Technology Oct 30, 2018

Nate and Tim discuss how ancient scroll technology led to literary binding techniques evident in the Bible. Collections of texts were stitched together through canonical seams and enclosed within literary introductions and conclusions. This seam work is how we got a Bible.

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#43 – Literary Layers & Ananias and Sapphira Oct 24, 2018

Collectively, the Bible consists of complex literary layers stacked atop one another. Stories and motifs are recycled and re-used. When we read any individual story, we must read it as a single layer of a greater whole. The strange story of Ananias and Sapphira, for example, is written in conversation with a series of Old Testament stories as well as at least one other Ananias story in the Book of Acts. We aren’t reading it well unless we learn to read it as a literary layer.

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#42 – Copy, Paste & Psalm 108 Oct 24, 2018

If the Bible is a mosaic, then the meaning is in the stitching. Nate and Tim look at how Psalm 108 is an example of clear editing and repurposing of texts within the Hebrew Bible, and how the Gospel of Luke is tracking with this literary mechanism at work.

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#41 – How does the Bible work? Oct 17, 2018

Nate and Tim open up a new series of conversations exploring how the Bible actually works. They introduce the idea of the Bible as a literary mosaic in which various texts are pieced together to form a kind of theological portrait. This episode is the first in what will be an ongoing series called How The Bible Works.

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#40 – Lisa Sharon Harper - Brett Kavanaugh and Women Oct 09, 2018

Lisa Sharon Harper talks about what Brett Kavanaugh’s confirmation to the Supreme Court really means, how we got here, and what the gospel has to say about it.

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#39 – Science Mike McHargue - Anger and Hope Oct 02, 2018

Mike McHargue (Science Mike) sits down with Nate and Tim to talk about sexual assault, the Bible, why so many people are over church, finding hope amidst cynicism, and much more. The conversation happened on the heels of a long and emotional week relating to how our society and the church treats women and victims of sexual assault in light of Christine Beasley Ford's testimony at Brett Kavanaugh's hearing. It made for a raw and honest discussion.

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#38 – How to Fix Gender Dynamics in the Church Sep 19, 2018

Part 9 (conclusion) of the gender series. We talk about what we've learned, what we can do, and respond to your questions. Oh, and a poem from Tim.

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#37 – What does Paul think about Women Elders? (1 Timothy 3) Sep 12, 2018

Part 8 of the gender series. Nate and Tim discuss Paul’s words to Timothy concerning “elders” and “deacons”. Can women be elders? Or is Paul mandating male leadership? Is he even creating formal “church offices” at all? And what do these titles even mean? We seek to answer these questions and more while showing how and why we usually get Paul so wrong.

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#36 – How Do Women Experience Gender Dynamics in the Church? Aug 29, 2018

Part 7 of the gender series. Nate and Tim host their moms as well as some friends and listeners for a round table discussion on the topic. If you only listen to one episode in the series, listen to this one. Hear our five guests - Molly, Julia, Emily, Ada and Julie Anne - as they share their perspectives on how gender ideologies play out in relationships, church and the broader culture. The conversation covers an array of view points and, in the end, answers the question, “What do Christian men and pastors really need to hear from women like you?”

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#35 – Adam, then Eve (1 Timothy 2:11-15) Aug 22, 2018

Part 6 in a series on gender, power and hierarchy. Nate and Tim wrap up the discussion on 1 Timothy 2, discussing Paul’s reference to Adam being created first and the concluding line about women being saved through childbirth. Is this Paul rooting patriarchy in “God’s creation order” or is Paul once again saying the exact opposite of what it sounds like he’s saying?

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#34 – Authority over a man (1 Timothy 2:11-15) Aug 15, 2018

Part 5 on Christianity and gender. Nate and Tim begin to tackle 1 Timothy 2 by considering the context of the letter, the significance of the goddess Artemis, and the Greek word translated as “exercise authority”. Once again we see that paying close attention to the gender passages in light of their original context opens up whole new avenues of interpretation.

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#33– Silencing women (1 Cor 14:34-35) Aug 06, 2018

Part 4 in a series on gender. Nate and Tim discuss some of the more infuriating ways complementation theology affects Christian women and explore the frustrating passage where Paul seems to tell women to sit down and shut up. But what is Paul really saying? And how could he tell women to be silent while simultaneously encouraging them to preach and prophecy in the church gatherings?

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#32 – Husbands and slave masters (Eph 5:22-6:9, Col 3:18-4:1) Jul 23, 2018

Part 3 in a series on Christianity and gender. Nate and Tim discuss two more key passages related to gender, trying to understand why Paul grouped husbands & wives, children & fathers, and slaves & masters. What do wives, children and slaves have in common? And what does Paul say to them? And how does he address husbands, fathers and slave masters? Listen to see how Paul’s theology of power makes surprising sense of it all and shows how these passages mean the exact opposite of what many claim they mean.

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#31 – Authority over her own damn head (1 Cor 11:2-16) Jul 19, 2018

Part 2 in a series on gender and the Bible. Nate and Tim discuss the first of six key New Testament passages pertaining to gender that have traditionally been used to support male authority. What is Paul really getting at about women covering their heads? Does “the head of the woman is man” really mean men are supposed to be in charge? Who gets authority over women’s bodies? And what in the world do angels have to do with any of this? All this and more as Nate and Tim take a closer look and show how most of us were taught that Paul was saying the exact opposite of what he really meant.

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#30 – Jesus ended hierarchy Jul 16, 2018

Part 1 in a series on Jesus and gender: Nate and Tim discuss some prerequisites to looking at New Testament texts pertaining to gender. Jesus explicitly taught that his disciples were to follow his example and abandon all sense of status, power and hierarchy. This was Christianity 101 to the apostles and early church and therefore any interpretation of the gender passages that today seem so offensive to women must acknowledge this overarching Christian ethic. If Jesus said there weren’t even supposed to be positions of status in the church, and Paul believed every Christian was to lay down their power over others, how could the New Testament possibly “teach” that men are supposed to have authority and women are supposed to submit?

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#29 – Why Can't Women Teach in Church? Jul 11, 2018

Episode 1 of the Gender series. The church has a long history of oppressing and silencing women, and using the Bible and Paul to justify that. We are going to push back on that and show that Paul thought the opposite. Tell your friends, tell you dad, tell your mom.

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#28 – Jeff Sessions used the Bible to justify separating families Jun 25, 2018

Last week Jeff Sessions used the Bible to justify kidnapping children, separating families, and continuing one of the cruelest immigration policies in US history. We're sickened, so we put out an impromptu episode calling BS on that. Our theology matters because it can lead to death or life. Which will you choose?

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#27 – Kaepernick, #churchtoo, and Christian nationalism Jun 20, 2018

What is the connection between rampant pastoral abuse in evangelical churches and evangelicalism’s collusion with conservative politics? Nate and Tim discuss how American slaveholder religion instilled a reverence for authority that is the root of both these issues. Listen in as they touch on #churchtoo, Colin Kaepernick, protecting the status quo, the notion that we’re all just supposed to be grateful for authorities, and more.

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#26 – Jesus and Self Defense Jun 06, 2018

Tragically, school shootings happen seemingly every week in America these days, and every time they do a debate breaks out over guns and the right to bear arms. Many believe it’s “a God-given right” to own and use a gun, and many think that Jesus affirmed and even commanded armed self-defense. Others insist that Christianity is inherently pacifist and that following Jesus means giving up one’s right to bear arms. This week Tim finally went out to the shed to record an episode looking at where Jesus really stood on self-defense.

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#25 – Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove - Slaveholder Religion May 30, 2018

Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove reflects on the painful reality that much of white American Christianity is more akin to slaveholder religion than the Christianity of Christ. He discusses how to distinguish between the two and shares some of his own journey of reconstructing the gospel. Jonathan's book is Reconstructing the Gospel: Finding Freedom from Slaveholder Religion

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#24 – Post Traumatic History Disorder May 23, 2018

Acknowledging the truth of our history can be painful, overwhelming and even traumatic. The history itself is also one of traumatization. Nate and Tim continue the conversation about the tragic truth of American church history by reflecting on last week’s discussion with Mark Charles and more.

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#23 – Mark Charles: Is America a Christian Nation? May 16, 2018

Mark Charles retells the founding of America to expose political, social and spiritual implications. You may need to sit and process for a while after this episode. What if we're remembering Abraham Lincoln and our founding all wrong? What if the systemic issues of our national history are still unresolved today?

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#22 – The risk of believing differently May 09, 2018

Is it worth losing the certainty you once had to pursue a better picture of God? What if God becomes harder to believe in? Tim and Nate talk about doing better and deeper theology and how that might make for a harder story to believe.

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#21 – Brian Zahnd - Making Christianity possible again May 02, 2018

Brian Zahnd joins us to talk about how to make Christianity viable for this generation and generations to come. Check out his latest book, Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God.

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#20 – Rachel Held Evans: Faith and Doubt Apr 25, 2018

Nate & Tim explore the multifaceted nature of the Bible with special guest, author Rachel Held Evans. Delving into her book Inspired, we discuss religious pluralism, how the slippery slope of deconstruction is actually wonderful, and the power of questioning faith. Rachel shares her insights on the Bible and its dual-edged capacity as a weapon and a tool for liberation. Join us as we uncover the Bible's complexities and learn how to navigate its teachings responsibly in today's world.

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#19 – The myth of the slippery slope Apr 18, 2018

If you start believing things outside your faith circle you might fall down a slippery slope... Should you be afraid of that? According to the ancient Christian tradition, the slippery slope might be the way to true spiritual maturity.

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#18 – Wrath and Liberation Apr 11, 2018

How does getting crucified liberate anyone? Is liberation the central driving force behind the gospel? And is the wrath of God something we need to be liberated from or instead something that liberates? This week Nate and Tim examine atonement through the lens of liberation.

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#17 – God isn't the problem Mar 28, 2018

The cross saves us from ourselves, not from God. Today we look at 10 different ways to think about the atonement that are key in the Bible.

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#16 – I used to be terrified of God Mar 21, 2018

Nate shares why he used to be afraid of God. We explore why penal substitution is worth fighting back on. Part 2 in a series of discussions on what happened at the cross, we continue the critique of PSA and the uglier aspects of Calvinistic theology and answer questions from Nate’s grandma about hell, judgment and universalism.

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#15 – Mako Nagasawa - Beyond penal substitution Mar 14, 2018

Is Penal Substitutionary Atonement really the gospel? Is it even true? And what other options are there for making sense of Christ's death? This week we're joined by Mako Nagasawa to kick off a series of conversations all about atonement. He breaks down the problems with penal substitution, discusses an alternative "medical" view of atonement and explain the need to discern between retributive and restorative justice.

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#14 – Give up power like Jesus (Part 4) Mar 07, 2018

Contrary to popular evangelical practice, the call to follow Jesus is an invitation to relinquish power over others. Part 4 in a series on the Bible as a story about power, we contrast this ethic with the theology of power and submission that is rooted in American slavery and is alive and well in the American church today.

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#13 – Power for the powerless (Part 3) Feb 28, 2018

If you want power, you probably shouldn’t have it. This week we explore the relationship between the Jewish exile and power, the idea of two Jewish messiah figures and how Jesus was the key to unlocking the human problem with power.

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#12 – The Bible speaks truth to power (Part 2) Feb 14, 2018

The Bible is trying to tell a story about power. Will we let it? The Old Testament weaves together two ideas: Humanity needs to wield power in order to set things right, but everyone who seeks this power proves incapable of handling it justly. This episode explores how the prophets and the prophetic nature of the Bible play an important role in telling this story.

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#11 – The Bible is a story about power (Part 1) Feb 07, 2018

So much abuse and hurt is rooted in issues of power, yet power is rarely discussed in church. Though it’s been largely ignored, the danger and corrupting influence of power is a theme that runs throughout the entire Bible. Nate and Tim start a new series exploring how the Bible tells a vitally important story about power that evangelicalism desperately needs to listen to.

References:

Bergsma and Hahn’s: Noah’s Nakedness and the curse on Canaan
Naked Bible Podcast episode 159: Noah’s Nakedness, the Sin of Ham, and the Curse of Canaan
Gen 6:1-5 4.Gen 9:20-27

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#10 – When theology hurts Jan 31, 2018

Last week Tim and Nate discussed why theology even matters. It matters because ideas have consequences and bad theology hurts people. This week we stop talking and listen to stories from people who have been affected by bad evangelical theology.

References:

Held by Tim

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#9 – Taking responsibility for our theology Jan 24, 2018

Nate and Tim step back from the Old Testament theology to reflect on why theology matters at all. Ideas trickle downstream. The affects of this trickle-down and the consequences of our theology matter, especially when they’re coming from the top of white evangelicalism and may be propping up some of our nation’s ugliest ideologies.

References:

Altar on the Water by Tim Ritter
White Evangelicals Must Ask, “Why Does Our Theology Lead to Republicanism?” by Jemar Tisby
#ITSNOTUS: Being Evangelical Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry by Timothy Gloege
Among white evangelicals, regular churchgoers are the most supportive of Trump by Pew Research
James 3:1

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#8 – Giants and genocide Jan 17, 2018

The episodes on the Fall introduced some crazy stuff about gods engaging in a battle to take over the human bloodline. Now we jump into the heated conversation on divine violence by reinterpreting the conquest of Canaan in light of this mythological worldview. Did God decree genocide or gianticide, and what difference does it make?

References: N.T. Wright, Greg Boyd, Michael Heiser, Pete Enns, Tim Mackie

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#7 – Is God more tolerant of other religions than we are? Jan 11, 2018

The reinterpretation of the Fall sparked further questions, so Nate and Tim slow down to reflect on some its implications. How does this all affect the theological debate about God being in control? And what does it imply about the Bible’s attitude toward other religions?

References: N.T. Wright, Greg Boyd, Michael Heiser, Pete Enns, Brian Zahnd, Tim Mackie

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#6 – God gives up (sort of) Jan 08, 2018

Nate and Tim take a fresh look at the strange story of the Tower of Babel and piece together some surprising biblical passages that tell of God giving up and delegating other gods to rule the nations.

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#5 – Eve and a war for power Jan 05, 2018

Rethinking the Fall (Part 3) — Nate and Tim continue re-examining the Fall by piecing together clues in the Bible that point to a war for power initiated by the gods.

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#4 – Nate has questions Jan 02, 2018

Nate has some good questions in response to the previous episode on the Fall and Tim tries to answer them.

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#3 – Why is there a snake in the garden? Jan 01, 2018

Tim and Nate kick off the first episode in a series rethinking the Biblical idea of the Fall. There’s more to the Adam and Eve story than we’ve been led to believe.

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#2 – In the beginning Jan 01, 2018

Is there just one god? Tim Ritter and Nate Hanson jump into the theological deep end as they rethink the very essence of Biblical monotheism. Buckle up as they start to uncover surprising ideas behind the story of the Bible.

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