Stay ConnectedAre you living your best life now? Not always? This is a podcast for you. Duke Professor Kate Bowler is an expert in the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. She had Stage IV cancer. Then she didn’t. And since then, all she wants to do is talk to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens. Find her online at @katecbowler.
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How do you stay close to someone whose pain you can’t fix, whose questions you can’t answer? In this episode, Kate sits down with her dear friend, the Rev. Dr. Sam Wells, a longtime advocate of “being with,” a theology that goes beyond advice and into the sacred space of simply staying. Sam–vicar at London’s St.-Martin-in-the-Fields, an astonishingly wise thinker, and one of Kate’s favorite people on Earth–invites us into a deeper courage: to show up without trying to tidy things up.
In this beautifully honest conversation, Kate and Sam talk about:
Why love can be so hard
What it means to let go of the need to “help”
The surprising beauty of just… showing up.
For everyone exhausted by easy answers, this episode is a hand to hold in the dark.
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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There are some realities we can never get over. And yet, we keep living. How do we do that well? Wilma Derksen writes and speaks on the topics of victimization and criminal justice. Her wisdom is hardwon. In the mid-80s, Wilma’s daughter, Candace, was murdered. Their family’s response to this tragedy has inspired so many people…and you’ll soon see why.
In this conversation, Kate and Wilma discuss:
How we live with the things we cannot change
What does forgiveness look like in practice
How to start forgiving yourself
If you liked this episode, you might also like:
Malcolm Gladwell on whether people can change
Jerry Sittser on reflecting on tragedy decades later
CW: murder of a child
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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This week we're introducing you to a show we love called A Slight Change of Plans with Dr. Maya Shankar. Kate was actually a guest on the show, where she joined to talk about how her entire belief system was thrown into question when she was diagnosed with Stage IV cancer at age 35.
If you want to hear more conversations like this one, listen to A Slight Change of Plans wherever you get your podcasts. Plus, the show has new episodes coming on November 11.
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How do we stay hopeful in the face of despair and disillusionment—especially when politics threaten to tear us in two? Kate speaks with Parker Palmer, a writer, teacher, and activist. As you’ll hear, he has gone through seasons of deep clinical depression, and has hard-won wisdom to share with us on how to survive, how to regain a sense of agency, how to remain hopeful despite it all.
In this episode, Kate and Parker discuss:
finding agency in the midst of depression and despair (including his trick of redefining achievement)
why it is important to recalibrate our sense of reality—especially in the face of 24-hour news cycles and social media algorithms
how a broken heart can either shatter or break open into a larger, more compassionate way of being
So on a day like today when we all might be thinking about the state of our nation or the state of our world or the realities at stake for our families and friends (....or perhaps, more tempted to keep our head in the sand to just make it through Thanksgiving), might we pull up close and listen to what Parker has to teach us about how to keep our hearts soft and remain hopeful, still.
If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:
Sharon McMahon on the small differences we can make
Will Willimon on aging into a new vocation
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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We need more room to be honest about what it costs when people or institutions fail us. Today's conversation is with Lord Charles Spencer, the 9th Earl Spencer. You might also know him as Princess Diana's brother. His latest book, A Very Private School, is a courageous and beautifully written memoir about his time in an abusive English boarding school that was shrouded in secrets, abuse, and cruelty. While his circumstances may be unlike something you’ve experienced, Charles speaks so candidly and tenderly about his painful childhood and what it has cost him and others too.
In this conversation, Kate and Charles discuss:
the challenge and catharsis of writing about personal trauma
the casual cruelty Charles and his peers endured
what happens when our innocence is stolen from us at a young age
what healing looks like 50 years later
If you liked this conversation, might also like:
Rachel Denhollender on getting justice you deserve
Tara Westover on how our parents’ best might still not be enough
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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In every deep relationship, there comes a point where we are asked to give up something of ourselves or change in ways we never anticipated. Who will this make me? What will this love cost? Tembi Locke fell in love with an Italian chef named Saro when she was studying abroad in Italy during college. Their romance was a story for the big screen. (Quite literally. One starring Zoe Saldana.)
A rare illness upended it all. Tembi spent ten years as Saro’s caregiver before he died. In her grief, Tembi took their young daughter back to Sicily to see what of her husband she could find there—in his culture, in his food, and with his family.
In this conversation, Kate and Tembi discuss:
becoming the architect of your life
the effects of long-term caregiving (both the beauty and the cost)
who grief makes us
If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:
Katherine and Jay Wolf on what caregiving costs us
Thomas Lynch on how we become who we miss
John Swinton on living at the speed of love
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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What if you started thinking really concretely about small, hard choices? That’s exactly what palliative care physicians do every day. They help us think about what we really want—knowing that we have limited time and limited resources. You’re going to love our guest today, Dr. Kathryn Mannix, palliative care physician and cognitive behavioral therapist. She offers practical steps to help people and their loved ones make sense of what limited choices they have, navigate any pain and fear they may experience, and gives the most comforting speech on what the end of a life looks like that we’ve ever heard. (I promise this is not scary at all. It is perfect.)
In this conversation, Kate and Kathryn discuss:
Why we want to keep a lid on the scary things of life
What even is palliative care
How palliative care-type thinking can help us live better
What happens to hope when facing end of life
This is a masterclass in walking right up to the edge with people, in the most gentle, compassionate way.
If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:
Sunita Puri on living in uncertainty
Rev. Tom Long on the importance of the rituals for death and dying
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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Sometimes you really need someone to believe that you are good. Unshakably good. Over 30 years ago, Father Greg Boyle started working with gang members in Los Angeles through Homeboy Industries. The lessons that he learns from whom he calls “homies” are contagious. Every day, they teach him about what it means to heal, to belong to one another, to practice compassion, and to relearn how to feel good again to God and others. These are just some of the transcendent truths that he has to share with us today.
In this conversation, Kate and Greg discuss:
what it means to see unshakable goodness in others
what it would mean for our carceral system if we sought to heal instead of punish
how can we have a greater capacity for joy
If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:
Bryan Stevenson on rethinking what “justice” means
Francis Collins on treating people kindly and with love
Nicholas Kristof on hope as a muscle
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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Nurse and writer Christie Watson found herself in a grocery store fish-finger freezer and realized something was very, very wrong. Why was she so desperate for more? (And also, why was she so extremely overheated? Oh wait…hormones?) In this hilarious and hopeful conversation, Christie speaks with Kate about the importance of prioritizing joy in the face of our emotionally expensive professions and roles, as well as joy’s importance as we get older (and how lucky we are to age in the first place).
In this conversation, Kate and Christie discuss:
The intricate aspects of aging for women
The significance of nurturing strong female friendships
Making room for the absurd in our life
If you liked this episode, you will also love:
Christie Watson on what nurses teach us about the language of kindness
Emma Gannon on whether we are in shut-it-down seasons or creative seasons
Elizabeth Gilbert on finding our "purpose" (and why that is a load of BS)
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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This week we have something special for you. Kate Bowler joins Rainn Wilson to explore the complexities of American Christian traditions and the nature of suffering on Soul Boom. Kate delves into her personal journey with stage four cancer, her struggles with the American healthcare system, offering profound insights into faith, resilience, and the misconceptions of positive thinking. Together, they discuss the dichotomy of American religious practices and the deep, often unspoken struggles that accompany a life of faith. Tune in for a heartfelt conversation filled with wisdom, humor, and authenticity.
To hear more episodes, search for Soul Boom wherever you get your podcasts or follow the links below:
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Produced by: Kartik Chainani
Executive Produced by: Ford Bowers, Samah Tokmachi
Spring Green Films
Production Supervisor: Mike O'Brien
Voicing Change Media
Theme Music by: Marcos Moscat
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It is a hard time to be a person in the world given the volatile political climate or state of our world or the realities we’re facing in our family. But the weight of the world’s problems are not on your shoulders alone. Sharon McMahon, America’s Government Teacher, joins Kate for a hopeful conversation that reminds us all of the small, faithful ways we can make a difference in our communities.
In this conversation, Kate and Sharon discuss:
why it’s not our job to fix every problem
how ordinary people can have an extraordinary impact
how to engage with others who may think or act (or vote!) differently than you
If you loved this episode, you’ll also like:
Cindy McCain on what courage looks like in action
Judy Woodruff on living in our beautiful, terrible days
Abigail Marsh on altruistic kidney donors
Anna Sale on talking across difference
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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We all experience seasons where all we can do is scratch our heads and say, “WHAT EVEN HAPPENED?!”
Dr. Francis Collins led the National Institutes of Health during 2020—our season of collective “WHAT EVEN HAPPENED!?” He is still picking up the pieces of heartbreak from how people responded to one another and to science at the time. Yet he hasn’t lost his faith in humanity.
In this conversation, Kate and Francis discuss:
Why faith and science seem at odds (and why they shouldn’t be)
The importance of doubt and asking questions
What happens when institutions (or their leaders) let us down and you’ll hear quite the case on practicing interdependence.
How we might all have enough foolishness to imagine we can be part of bridging the great divides we see.
If you liked this episode, you might also love:
Angela Williams on the importance of community care
Maggie Jackson on what staying open-minded offers us
David Brooks on asking better questions
To hear more conversations on science and faith with top scientists and Christian leaders, check out BioLogos’s Language of God podcast.
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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Is it possible for anyone to change—change their mind, change their theology, change their priorities? What does it mean to hope when we live in such uncertainty?
Richard B. Hays is a world-renowned scholar of the New Testament. He is also a dear friend and colleague of Kate Bowler. Richard and Kate were both unexpectedly diagnosed with cancer at the same time, which meant they spent many hours discussing the heart of what it means to hope. Their hard won wisdom adds such depth and heart to today’s episode.
In this conversation, Richard and Kate discuss:
This is a soulful conversation that embodies the humility it takes to change anything. Your mind. How your time is spent. Your certainties. We can’t wait to hear what you think.
If you liked this episode, you might also love:
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Nicholas Kristof understands how to hope—especially in the face of despair or disappointment. He has spent his life shining a light on global tragedies like the Tiananmen Square massacre or the genocide in Darfur. And yet, despite all the horrors he has born witness to, he maintains a sense of hard-won optimism. “Hope is a muscle,” he says, and one we can all learn to develop.
In this live conversation, Kate and Nicholas discuss:
If you liked this episode, you’ll love:
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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Are you living your best life now? Not always? GREAT, ME NEITHER.
My name is Kate Bowler. I’m a Duke professor, bestselling author, and your friendly neighborhood Canadian.
This is a show for people who have learned that life is… well, complicated. And we need better language to tell the truth about all of our ups and downs and in-betweens. I’ve always been fascinated by how we, as humans, try to make sense of suffering and happiness. Spoiler alert: there’s no magic formula, but there are some pretty brilliant minds who’ve given it a go. And I’m bringing them straight to your earbuds.
So, if you’re tired of coffee mug platitudes and are looking for something…more, join us. New episodes drop every Tuesday. Subscribe now and, together, let’s find a bit more hope, in a world where, well, everything happens.
A new season of honest-to-God funny conversations starts on September 3rd.
Mark your calendar. Make sure you’re subscribed. You won’t want to miss this.
EVERYTHING HAPPENS is available everywhere you get your podcasts.
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Comedians have the ability to be unsparingly honest in ways that buck all cultural norms. It’s a truth-telling that so many of us crave.
Cue Rob Delaney.
Rob is a comedian, actor, writer, and director. His memoir, A Heart That Works is an unsparing account of the death of his beautiful son, Henry. Rob lives in London with his family where Kate visited him for this honest and hilarious conversation.
Kate and Rob discuss:
Rob wants us all to understand that if the unthinkable happens, our hearts still beat so strong in truth and love.
CW: hard-earned explicit language of a bereaved parent, death of parent, Suicide, death of a child
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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There is this quote by writer and theologian Frederick Buechner. He writes, “Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid.” …But I always sort of wanted to amend his original words. Because the more honest truth is: “Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Be a little afraid.”
Life is so beautiful. And life is so hard. For everyone. Sometimes at the same time. That is the premise behind my latest book of meditations called Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day! Perhaps these reflections on hope and fear in the midst of our real lives resonate with whatever it is you’re facing today.
Pick up a copy (or listen on audio) wherever books are sold.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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How should you show up for people in grief? What do you say? What should you do? Why is it that beauty can exist alongside deep suffering? What can be said at funerals when the person who died was complicated? These are just a few of the questions I wanted to ask Steve Leder—a bestselling author and a rabbi who has presided over a thousand funerals with wisdom and kindness.
In this conversation, we discuss:
CW: suicide, adult language
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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This is the story of one young doctor’s race against the clock as he searches for a cure for his own rare disease.
In this conversation, Kate and David Fajgenbaum discuss:
This episode originally aired in 2020. Stay tuned to the end to hear an incredible update from David and the work he is up to now. He has expanded from finding the cure for his own incurable disease to developing an organization that does the same for others. Incredible.
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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How hard is it to be a parent today? After a pandemic? With social media breathing down our necks? It’s so hard! Navigating the delicate balance between granting independence and providing guidance can be daunting as a parent.
Dr. Lisa Damour (New York Times bestselling author of The Emotional Lives of Teenagers) has dedicated her life to unraveling the intricacies of adolescence and offering practical, heartfelt advice.
In this conversation, Lisa and Kate:
CW: Mental Health awareness
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter).
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What do you learn standing so close to the edge with so many people? Listen for wisdom on mortality and hope—like how the habits of love are hard to break and what makes a ‘good funeral’ directly from a thoughtful and funny funeral director himself.
In this episode, Kate and Thomas discuss:
This episode originally aired in 2022, but we’re revisiting it because I think it might be the best conversation I’ve ever had. I can’t wait to hear what you think.
CW: suicide, death
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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Our most precious relationships are often our most complicated, aren’t they? Poet and bestselling author Kwame Alexander wrote an honest book of poems and essays that name the difficult and beautiful and heart-wrenching conversations we have (or should be having) with the people we love and with the ones who love us.
In this conversation, Kwame and Kate discuss:
CW: death of parent, divorce
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Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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There is a strange tension when we want so badly for the people we love to support us, but want to shield them from the pain at the same time. This is a beautiful, terrible kind of love.
In this conversation, Kate and bestselling writer Suleika Jaouad discuss:
This episode originally aired in 2021, but is one of our all-time favorites for an honest conversation on being a cancer patient and how to support people in your lives who are undergoing treatment. Kate ends with a blessing for those who feel like their problem is too much to handle—a blessing if you feel like "the bad thing."
If you liked this episode, you might also love:
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Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Are some people more empathetic than others? By studying those on the opposite end of the compassion spectrum–those with psychopathy–researcher Dr. Abigail Marsh discovered something surprising.
In this conversation, Kate and Abigail discuss:
This conversation originally aired in 2020, but is one we return to again and again as we think about how empathy expands our capacity for others. Listen for an update from Abigail on what her recent research is exploring.
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
What if your life hasn’t turned out like you thought it would? When writer Heather Lanier’s daughter, Fiona, was born with a rare genetic syndrome, she learned that the world will not always see her beloved as good. In this conversation, Kate and Heather discuss how it’s okay that we are not summed up on bell curves. Perhaps the bodies in which we dwell are whole enough.
In this conversation, Kate and Heather discuss:
This conversation originally aired in 2020, but it is one we return to again and again for its beauty, its honesty, its courage.
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Pain is like a geography—one that isn’t foreign to palliative care physician, Dr. Sunita Puri. Kate and Sunita speak about needing new language for walking the borderlands and how we all might learn to live—and die—with a bit more courage.
In this conversation, Kate and Sunita discuss:
This conversation originally aired in 2020 but it is one of our all-time favorites.
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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When a group of young moms died around the same time, clinicians Dr. Justin Yopp and Dr. Don Rosenstein wanted to refer their widowed spouses to a grief support group… but none existed. So they started their own.
In this conversation, Kate, Justin, and Don discuss:
Together, they uncover the magic of we.
This summer, we are re-sharing our all-time favorite episodes. While this conversation originally aired in 2020, Kate caught up with Don and Justin to get an update on what they are working on lately. You won’t want to miss their important (and practical!) update.
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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How do we navigate life within these beautiful, terrible days? In this special live episode of the Everything Happens podcast, Kate sits down with American broadcast journalist Judy Woodruff at the historic Sixth & I Synagogue in Washington, DC to discuss Kate’s latest book, Have a Beautiful, Terrible Day! Together, they explore what it means to live through the best of days, the worst of days, and all the in-betweens.
Together, they discuss:
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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We become the sum of so many people throughout our lives. Kate speaks with one of the funniest people on the entire planet, comedian Samantha Bee, about the people who made her, her. What virtues did they create? What absurdity ensued? How does she think about how she impacts her own kids?
In this conversation, Kate and Samantha discuss:
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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Here on the Everything Happens Podcast we don’t shy away from difficult subjects, and today’s episode tackles a topic we’ve been wanting to discuss for awhile—suicide among teens and young adults. My guest today, Dr. Pamela Morris-Perez is someone who approaches this subject with the heart of a grieving mom and the mind of a professor and practitioner who wants to make change possible and wants to teach us how we can help. This is such an important conversation on how communities can help prevent adolescent suicide.
In this conversation, Kate and Pamela discuss:
In a very important way, this episode won’t create nearly as much anxiety as you think. Talking about suicide is one of the most important ways of making it less likely. So let’s find better language together, shall we?
If you need to talk to someone, call or text 988. If you are worried about someone, you too can call or text 988 to get resources. Remember: you matter. Please listen with care.
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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Chantal Kreviazuk is a Canadian singer, songwriter, composer, and pianist—her voice is the soundtrack of all Kate’s Canadian’s teenage angst. She has had an incredible career with a passion for helping others. Among many things, she’s a powerful advocate for destigmatizing mental illness—a cause near and dear to her heart after her brother struggled to get adequate care for nearly 20 years. She’s said, “When a family member is sick, the whole family is sick.” She offers such wisdom for people who struggle with a hurting family member, or their own mental health, or for their marriages that are sometimes not as easy as we had hoped.
In this conversation, Kate and Chantal discuss:
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.
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Sometimes we can fix our lives and sometimes can’t. So when self-help and self-care fall short, what do we need to turn instead? Rainn Wilson (Dwight Schrute of NBC’s The Office) says that what we need is a spiritual revolution. This conversation is rich and challenging and invites us all to think about the virtues we need to sustain a life and how we might cultivate these virtues not just for our own wellbeing but for that of the people around us. Spoiler alert: it has nothing to do with bubble baths or the latest cold plunge trend. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were that easy?
In this conversation, Kate and Rainn discuss:
A big thank you to our friends at The Fetzer Institute for making today’s conversation possible.
Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.
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Our lives are rarely predictable or at all in our control. Sometimes what happens to us or around us can reshape our entire trajectory. Nicky Gumbel is someone whose life was dramatically changed. He thought he was going to be a very fancy lawyer… just like everyone else in his family, but that’s not what happened. Nicky became one of the pioneers of the Alpha Course where 30 million people have been introduced to Christian faith around the world.
In this conversation, Kate and Nicky discuss:
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So much of modern culture emphasizes success, hard work, and ambition. But what if we don’t conquer every problem or reach every mountaintop? How do you live with the hunger for more while letting yourself have limits and be tired and say no and shut it down too?
In this conversation, Kate and Emma Gannon discuss:
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These are uncertain times for so many of us.
But, according to writer Maggie Jackson, perhaps there is deep wisdom to be uncovered too—surprising gifts of curiosity, creative thinking, open-mindedness, and ways forward through the (often) unpredictabilities of life.
In this conversation, Kate and Maggie Discuss:
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We don’t usually have repeat guests on this podcast… except we’re making an exception for the wonderful and wise Alan Alda. Alan Alda, of course, is an award-winning actor, writer, director, and podcast host. You probably know and love him as Hawkeye on M*A*S*H or Senator Arnie Vinick on The West Wing. He is endlessly curious on just about every topic—which makes him the perfect person to talk to about empathy, learning across differences (and disagreement), and how we might age into new hobbies and careers.
In this conversation, Alan and Kate discuss:
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When we are in deep grief, we can anticipate some of the horrible parts—the sleeplessness, the denial, the loneliness. But what about the moments of surprising lightness and joy? Moments that don’t erase the pain, but make it a bit more bearable. Academy Award-nominated actor Richard E. Grant practices finding these pockets of happiness while grieving his beloved wife.
In this conversation, Kate and Richard talk about:
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How do you have faith that can hold all of reality—the beautiful, the terrible, and everything in-between? The TODAY Show’s Savannah Guthrie thinks carefully about this question, especially given that her job is reporting the news every morning.
In this conversation, Kate and Savannah discuss:
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Do you ever look back at your childhood and go… certainly that didn’t happen like that? Where were the adults? Academy Award-winning director and childhood actress Sarah Polley describes what it was like to not be believed when she was afraid or when she wanted to stop or when she was in pain or when she was in danger. And how, as adults, we can all better protect those around us and learn to look back on our younger selves with compassion.
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Today, we’re talking about tragicomedy. And isn’t that all of life? The absurdity. The horror. The laughter that somehow cuts through the most difficult of moments. Our guest today, Stephanie Wittles Wachs wrote a beautiful memoir called Everything is Horrible and Wonderful about the death of her brother to an accidental heroin overdose when he was 30 years old.
In this conversation, Kate and Stephanie discuss:
CW: mention of suicide, drug overdose, death of a sibling
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Today, we have a little bonus episode to kick off your weekend. Vivek Murthy, the current U.S. Surgeon General, had so much wisdom to offer us in this week's conversation on combatting loneliness and building better relationships. In this bonus clip, he offers us a little pep talk for connection. It may be just what you need to hear.
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A basketball coach, a doctor, and a history professor walk into a bar….
This might be the start of a great joke OR the start of an episode of Everything Happens.
In this conversation, Kate Bowler speaks with Duke Men’s Basketball Coach, Jon Scheyer and the current US Surgeon General, Dr. Vivek Murthy. Together they discuss:
This conversation was taped live at Duke University as part of the Surgeon General’s We Are Made to Connect Tour. A huge thank you to Chris Simmons, the Office of Student Affairs, and the Office of the US Surgeon General for making this possible.
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We are kicking off Season 12 of the Everything Happens Podcast (!!) with a little bonus situation because we’re having a little bonus moment. Kate’s new book HAVE A BEAUTIFUL, TERRIBLE DAY! Is available everywhere books are sold today.
It is a book of daily meditations meant to ground whatever day you’re having—all of the ups and downs and inbetweens. And who better to talk about that with than my friend, Bob Crawford. Bob is the bass player for the wildly popular band The Avett Brothers, and someone who knows too well how terrible and beautiful life can be.
In this conversation, Kate and Bob discuss:
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Today, we are re-airing one of our favorite episodes.
Beth Moore has been in the limelight for almost thirty years, but during that time, she revealed very little about her formative family history. Now, this world-famous Bible teacher is ready to tell her story for the first time.
In this episode, Kate and Beth discuss:
This was Beth’s first interview about her new memoir, and Kate felt so honored to get to ask this wise soul about the role of faith in lives that haven’t worked out like we thought they should.
CW: sexual abuse, mental illness.
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Today, we are re-airing one of our favorite episodes.
Bryan Stevenson (founder of the Equal Justice Initiative) is committed to ending mass incarceration and excessive punishment, to challenging racial and economic injustice, and to protecting basic human rights for the most vulnerable among us.
In this episode, Kate and Bryan discuss:
CW: discussion of slavery, lynching, and other racist violence, death row
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Living in uncertainty can lead to a sense of languishing. How do we wake up from this feeling?
Katherine May has written gorgeous books like Wintering and Enchantment that help us better understand how to live wide-awake to the world around us.
In this conversation, Kate and Katherine discuss:
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Bozoma Saint John is a successful marketing executive, but she is also a woman who knows the rollercoaster of profound love and deep loss. She shares her hard-won wisdom and complicated grief as she faced her husband’s terminal cancer diagnosis.
In this conversation, Kate and Bozoma:
CW: adult language, death of a child during pregnancy, death of a spouse
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In this conversation, Kate and Anna discuss:
What do we lose when we don’t talk about hard things? And what might we gain if we do?
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Comedian Iliza Shlesinger is refreshingly candid, especially about things many women can relate to, like the sheer exhaustion that comes from juggling life's demands (dare we say, it's like a badge of honor?), pregnancy loss—a topic that often remains in the shadows, and how our accounts of self-care really go off the rails when bubble baths become the solution to all of life’s problems.
In this conversation, Kate and Iliza address:
This conversation is brought to you by Aspen Ideas: Health and was recorded on location in Aspen, CO.
CW: miscarriage
Everything Happens is brought to you by Cologuard®. Are you 45 or older? Start screening for colon cancer with Cologuard, an effective and noninvasive screening option for adults 45 and older at average risk for colon cancer. Rx only. Learn more at Cologuard.com/everything
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How do you think about faith and hope when your prayers aren’t answered? What about when they are?
Steph and her husband, Rivs, have the kind of story you might see in a blockbuster movie. Rivs was a professional endurance athlete who was suddenly put on life support with a mysterious lung disease. But then a confluence of shocking events occurred to get him the care he needed to survive.
Steph grew up as part of the Church of Latter Day Saints, a faith that believed that if she prayed hard enough, miracles would happen. But then her dad died when she was 14. So how does she understand faith and hope and miracles after Rivs' survival?
In this conversation, Kate and Steph discuss:
Steph is someone who knows intimately that life sometimes just happens and that we have to learn to live alongside all of that pain and that joy and that love that somehow coexists.
CW: cancer, death of a parent
Everything Happens is brought to you by Cologuard®. Are you 45 or older? Start screening for colon cancer with Cologuard, an effective and noninvasive screening option for adults 45 and older at average risk for colon cancer. Rx only. Learn more at Cologuard.com/everything
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Don’t Waste Your Life. Savor Every Moment. Live in the Present.
Culture has a lot of prescriptions for how to live a good life. But what if we don’t know where to start? Writer and researcher Catherine Price started to notice how much time she was spending on her phone and how the habit was sucking joy from her life. Instead, she wanted to learn how to have fun again. What is fun? How do you have it? Can you become a more fun person? Catherine debunks the myths around what it means to have fun—especially when we think we’re too tired, too careworn, or too old—and gives us a little homework to start today.
In this conversation, Kate and Catherine discuss:
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Margaret Renkl calls herself a backyard naturalist—but not because she has any particular expertise. From the birds in her yard to the bugs in her flower beds, she has learned the art of attention. Nature has taught her a speed at which to live, to hope, to stave off despair.
In this conversation, Kate and Margaret discuss:
Perhaps, we can borrow some of Margaret’s innate curiosity together and see how it might open us up to wonder and love and connectedness once again.
Everything Happens is brought to you by Cologuard®. Are you 45 or older? Start screening for colon cancer with Cologuard, an effective and noninvasive screening option for adults 45 and older at average risk for colon cancer. Rx only. Learn more at Cologuard.com/everything
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We may think we understand people. Where they are coming from. Why they act the way they act. … But what if we’re wrong?
New York Times columnist David Brooks’ family motto was “Think Yiddish, Act British.” He knew how to keep a tight lid on his emotions, which could be useful… until he realized that he would need to learn a lot more about the role of empathy to love the people around him. Now, he’s sharing the result of his curiosity on how we might get better at really knowing people. Perhaps that simple skill can help combat the loneliness, despair, and the divides in our social fabric.
In this conversation, Kate and David discuss:
CW: suicide
Everything Happens is brought to you by Cologuard®. Are you 45 or older? Start screening for colon cancer with Cologuard, an effective and noninvasive screening option for adults 45 and older at average risk for colon cancer. Rx only. Learn more at Cologuard.com/everything
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So many of us have experienced a before… and an after.
My friend, the lovely writer Clover Stroud, had her before and after at a young age. When she was 16, her mom was in a horse-riding accident and suffered a serious brain injury that left her severely disabled until she died… 22 years later. The suddenness of that accident layered with the ongoingness of that level of caregiving bonded Clover and her big sister, Nell in remarkable ways. Then, Nell unexpectedly died.
The grief of losing her sister is captured in Clover’s beautiful book, The Red of My Blood—a book that captures the visceral feelings of grief. The pain. The beauty. The staying wide awake to the life that’s in front of us despite it all. The “how do I go on parenting with all this grief?” The “give me a sign” feeling we crave when our loved ones are gone.
In this conversation, Kate and Clover discuss:
Kate went to visit Clover at her farm outside of Oxford in England to talk about the things in our lives that almost destroy us but also form us in some remarkable ways too.
CW: cancer, traumatic brain injury, horse accident, death of a sibling
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Scripture can become a weapon in the hands of the ultra-certain. As if every pain or suffering is part of “God’s divine plan.” So how should we understand and apply the Bible to our real lives with our real-life problems?
NT Wright, a New Testament scholar, is a trusted expert to help us understand what truths resound across time and circumstance and which don’t. In this conversation, Kate and Tom dig in especially on Romans 8:28 which is the Pauline version of EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON. Is that what Paul intended to say? Is there maybe another, more life-giving way to interpret it instead?
Kate and NT Wright also discuss:
This is a bit of a Bible-nerd out, but I would trust no one else to help us better make sense of where is God when we’re suffering than NT Wright.
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How do you sustain a life of service…especially when your job costs you something? Angela Williams has dedicated her life to advocating for others. She joined the military. She became a lawyer. She became a minister. Wait, now she runs one of the largest service organizations in the world, the United Way, as its CEO? Incredible.
But what’s behind all this is a story about service. About what it takes to stay in the long, slow work of community. You will believe when she says that it’s hard…and it’s good. At the same time.
In this conversation, Kate and Angela discuss:
CW: cancer, caregiving
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What does it really mean to “survive” when what you survive… lingers? Emi Nietfeld went from being homeless to graduating from Harvard. But the rags-to-riches story isn’t ever completely true. It skips over the hardest parts—complicated families, long-term trauma on brains and bodies, the ways we wish we could go back and undo what has been done.
This is an incredible story about resilience—what it is, and what it isn’t. You’re going to love the way she talks about the power of her efforts. And the ways she learned to get back up, but should have never had to.
In this conversation, Emi and Kate discuss:
Emi carefully interrogates what it really means to “overcome” anything. It makes us all feel less alone when we can say, honestly, that some things can be conquered and some things conquer us.
CW: brief mentions of suicidal ideation, eating disorders, self-harm, adverse childhood, hoarding, trans issues
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How hard is it to be a parent today? After a pandemic? With social media breathing down our necks? It’s so hard! Navigating the delicate balance between granting independence and providing guidance can be daunting as a parent.
Dr. Lisa Damour (New York Times bestselling author of The Emotional Lives of Teenagers) has dedicated her life to unraveling the intricacies of adolescence and offering practical, heartfelt advice.
In this conversation, Lisa and Kate:
CW: Mental Health awareness
***
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Comedians have the ability to be unsparingly honest in ways that buck all cultural norms. It’s a truth-telling that so many of us crave.
Cue Rob Delaney.
Rob is a comedian, actor, writer, and director. His memoir, A Heart That Works is an unsparing account of the death of his beautiful son, Henry. Rob lives in London with his family where Kate visited him for this honest and hilarious conversation.
Kate and Rob discuss:
Rob wants us all to understand that if the unthinkable happens, our hearts still beat so strong in truth and love.
CW: hard-earned explicit language of a bereaved parent, death of parent, Suicide, death of a child
***
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The TODAY Show’s Jenna Bush Hager sits down for a wide-ranging conversation with Kate Bowler. Together, they share about the importance of family and intergenerational relationships (Jenna shares such tender stories about her grandparents), how they hope to let their kids make mistakes and be met with grace, and how they both (try to) find beauty in ordinary, regular days and regular problems.
In this conversation, Kate and Jenna discuss:
Kate visited Jenna in New York City for this conversation. And Jenna is just as lovely and generous of spirit as you’d imagine.
CW: fertility issues; Alzheimer’s
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Are you living your best life now? Not always? GREAT, ME NEITHER.
My name is Kate Bowler. I’m a professor, speaker, podcast host and New York Times bestselling author. Which makes it sound like I believe in living your “best life.” Don’t worry—I don’t.
I study the stories we tell about success and failure, suffering and happiness. And hobbies are wasted on me because I’d rather be talking to funny and wise people about how to live with the knowledge that, well, everything happens.
A new season of *fantastic* conversation starts on September 5th.
Mark your calendar. Make sure you’re subscribed. You won’t want to miss this.
EVERYTHING HAPPENS is available everywhere you get your podcasts.
***
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How do you live knowing life can just come undone at a moment’s notice? In the span of a few months, Tig Notaro received three life-threatening illnesses, unexpectedly lost her mom, and went through a breakup. Tig is a brilliant comedian whose real life informs her comedy and has a lot to teach us about living honestly in the face of reality.
In this conversation, Kate and Tig discuss:
CW: cancer, death of parent
***
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What makes a good life? How would you answer that question? Not just life in the abstract… but what makes YOUR life good? Professor Miroslav Volf teaches a popular class at Yale University which guides students through these kinds of questions and might help us all think a little more deeply about what our lives are adding up to be.
In this conversation, Kate and Miroslav discuss:
On a personal note, this is a special interview for Kate because Miroslav was also her professor at Yale and someone she looks up to with joy and admiration.
***
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Our most precious relationships are often our most complicated, aren’t they? Poet and bestselling author Kwame Alexander wrote an honest book of poems and essays that name the difficult and beautiful and heart-wrenching conversations we have (or should be having) with the people we love and with the ones who love us.
In this conversation, Kwame and Kate discuss:
CW: death of parent, divorce
***
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How do we stay soft in a world that has taught us to be tough? Actress Minka Kelly is known for her roles as Lyla Garrity on Friday Night Lights or as Samantha in HBO’s Euphoria. Despite her fame on the big screen, one might not realize the chaos that surrounded her childhood. Being raised by a single mom who worked as a stripper and struggled with addiction, Minka had to learn how to take care of herself and the adults around her, and, eventually, to forgive her mom.
In this tender conversation, Kate and Minka discuss:
CW: colon cancer, death of a parent, brief mentions of abuse and neglect
***
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Some people are the LEAN IN sort. They lean into your unsolvable problems, show up on your impossible days, and walk with you all the way to the end. How do we become them? How do we create belonging when the people we love experience such uncertainty? Practical theologian and mental health nurse John Swinton knows a thing or two about this kind of love.
In this conversation, Kate and John discuss:
***
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Maggie Smith (poet and author of books like Keep Moving and You Could Make This Place Beautiful) chronicles the aftermath of a painful divorce she didn’t see coming. How do we raise our kids in the wake of such change? And how do we reconcile who we are and who we are becoming?
In this conversation, Maggie and Kate discuss:
CW: divorce
***
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What happens when the people we built our lives around stop needing us? Or when we have to pick between our meaningful careers or our family? And what do we do with the ambiguous grief that comes with every expected and unexpected change? Today, Kate takes an honest look at juggling the demands on our time and on our heart with NPR’s Mary Louise Kelly.
Kate and Mary Louise discuss:
This may be a conversation about parenting, but I think there might be something in here for anyone who wonders: Who am I as my relationships change? Can I still find myself there?
***
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How should you show up for people in grief? What do you say? What should you do? Why is it that beauty can exist alongside deep suffering? What can be said at funerals when the person who died was complicated? These are just a few of the questions I wanted to ask Steve Leder—a bestselling author and a rabbi who has presided over a thousand funerals with wisdom and kindness.
In this conversation, we discuss:
CW: suicide, adult language
***
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Historian and Canadian politician Michael Ignatieff explores the cracks in our seamless worldviews… or at least the worldviews we thought were seamless until we’re faced with tragedies of all kinds. In this wide-ranging exploration, Kate and Michael probe humanity's enduring attempt to console ourselves and construct meaning from our pain.
In this conversation, Kate and Michael discuss:
Michael does not denigrate anyone’s attempt for comfort, but asks us to look carefully at the consolation that lasts. He asks: What is consolation? And why do we all crave that practice of meaning-making?
***
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THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.
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Supermodel Paulina Porizkova has been in the public eye all her life. But it has been a rollercoaster of soaring successes and deep heartache. Grief and pain comes to us all, and in those moments, we need our shared humanity (and not our super-anythingness) to build a bridge back to others.
In this tender conversation, Kate and Paulina discuss:
CW: Spicy language
***
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THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.
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The Reverend Tom Long wrote the book on funerals. No, really. When grief threatens to swallow us whole, Tom reminds us of our place in a bigger story of hope and faith, of interdependence and the importance of community. He describes the necessity of ritual to pull us into a wider, truer story than the trite version our culture likes to tell.
In this warm conversation (trust me! You will laugh!), Kate and Tom discuss:
No one likes to talk about funerals, but this one is a must-listen.
***
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Over thirty years ago, Elaine Pagels’ young son and husband died within the same year. In this tender conversation, Kate and Elaine discuss surviving the aftermath of such devastation, the painful explanations religion often offers, and how we love and keep loving even after so much tragedy.
Together, they discuss:
This episode is for someone who has ever had the thought “haven’t I suffered enough?” Elaine and Kate are trusted companions in a life that hasn’t turned out like we thought it should.
CW: death of a child, death of a spouse
***
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THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days is out now. Learn more, here.
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A big thank you to Jed Meyers for contributing his beautiful poem to today's episode.
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Every problem New York Times columnist Frank Bruni faced had a simple fix. Doctors offered reasonable solutions for reasonable problems. Preventative care guaranteed future health. That is, until he woke up one morning without vision in his eye. This experience forced him to rethink how much of life is in our control and how to live fully in the face of unfixable problems.
In this conversation, Kate and Frank discuss:
***
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Beth Moore has been in the limelight for almost thirty years, but during that time, she revealed very little about her formative family history. Now, this world-famous Bible teacher is ready to tell her story for the first time.
In this episode, Kate and Beth discuss:
This was Beth’s first interview about her new memoir, and Kate felt so honored to get to ask this wise soul about the role of faith in lives that haven’t worked out like we thought they should.
CW: sexual abuse, mental illness
***
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Welcome to SEASON TEN of the Everything Happens Podcast!
I started this podcast as a way to create language and community around some of life's most painful moments. I was so overwhelmed by the question of how do we live in the after? After a diagnosis, after a death, after a divorce, after something that changes our lives or takes it apart.
I had just been diagnosed with stage four colon cancer and I was only 35. I had a two year old at home with this giant lovey Disney eyes, and I had the job that I loved, and then suddenly, I had a picture of a future that was just never going to be. So I wanted to know, like, how do we do this? How do you find joy and hope and love even after life comes undone? And after years of treatment and years of uncertainty, I guess I realized somewhere along the way that this wasn't really a one and done kind of question. This is the sort of work that evolves over time as life continues to contract and expand and break our hearts and then put us back together all over again. And so thank you for being the people that I've had along the way. These are not, of course, the conversations anybody really wants to have, but we do, you and me and this gorgeous community here.
We have so many great episodes coming to you for SEASON TEN. We're going to be talking to tender and wise and funny people about what they've discovered during their before and afters. People like Beth Moore on long faithfulness when life really doesn't work out the way you thought it did. Mary Louise Kelly on empty-nesting and rediscovering yourself after the kids leave.Rabbi Steve Leder on how tragedies teach us and how we can just see beauty somehow. Plus SO MANY MORE.
New episodes coming your way every Tuesday this Spring.
This episode also includes a conversation between Kate and her producer, Jessica Richie about their new book of blessings, The Lives We Actually Have.
***
THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releases TODAY). Learn more, here.
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As we approach the New Year, we might need a minute to look backward. What even happened this year? Who was I? What went well? What didn't? Before we start making those New Year’s Resolutions, maybe we could have a second of honesty together.
This week is about celebrating the fact that alongside some of our painful, horrifying moments, we did experience moments of levity and joy and pure delight. In our personal lives, in our inner circle, during our 9-5s, and one real Zinger bonus round that really takes the cake.
In this bonus crossover episode, Kate and Kelly Corrigan discuss:
***
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Looking for some short spiritual reflections and blessings? Check out GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.
Introducing THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releasing February 14, 2023). Learn more, pre-order, and receive a free pennant, here.
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This time of year can be rough. Somehow we are supposed to wrap it up or feel complete, but, more often than not, we can look back at a year that, well, sucked.
Rather than just showing you the shiny parts of life, today is your permission to Cheers to The Crappies. Kelly Corrigan (of Kelly Corrigan Wonders and Tell Me More) and I are exchanging our crappiest moments: in our personal lives, in our inner circle, during our 9-5, and one real Zinger round that takes the cake.
In this bonus crossover episode, Kate and Kelly discuss:
This episode is for if you aren’t feel warm and fuzzy about this past year and you want a minute to say: Wow. That really didn’t go well. This isn’t getting better. I’m really disappointed or heartbroken or hurt… still. So here’s to a moment of very crappy honesty, my dears. You, in all your problems and hopes and unmet expectations are worth listening to.
***
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No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available in PAPERBACK. Order your copy, today.
Looking for some short spiritual reflections and blessings? Check out GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.
Introducing THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releasing February 14, 2023). Learn more, pre-order, and receive a free pennant, here.
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The indomitable Liz Gilbert (of EAT, PRAY, LOVE fame) joins Kate for a live conversation on the courage to create. Listen as Liz helps us expose our exhausting American need to make everything useful and lets us embrace beauty as a way of really living.
In this episode, Kate and Liz discuss:
CW: some spicy adult language
***
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No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available in PAPERBACK. Order your copy, today.
Looking for some short spiritual reflections and blessings? Check out GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.
Introducing THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releasing February 14, 2023). Learn more, pre-order, and receive a free pennant, here.
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Bryan Stevenson (founder of the Equal Justice Initiative) is committed to ending mass incarceration and excessive punishment, to challenging racial and economic injustice, and to protecting basic human rights for the most vulnerable among us.
In this episode, Kate and Bryan discuss:
CW: discussion of slavery, lynching, and other racist violence, death row
***
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Subscribe to receive blessings in your inbox every week.
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Introducing THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releasing February 14, 2023). Learn more, pre-order, and receive a free pennant, here.
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We are going to practice the season of Advent together. Download a free Advent guide, here.
At the end of today's episode, we asked you what your traditions were for remembering the people who we've lost. Share yours on my Instagram or Facebook account. Whether it is the 1st or 4th or 22nd year without someone you love, the holidays can be especially difficult. We need practical ways to bring their memory into our special days. Making family recipes. Playing their favorite song. Putting their ornaments on the tree. Traditions that keep their love alive year after year after year.
What traditions does your family practice to honor and remember your loved one each year? Share yours on Instagram or Facebook.
Thank you for sharing your heartbreak and hope with us all. Bless you as you navigate another year dear one. You aren't doing it alone.
***
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Looking for some short spiritual reflections and blessings? Check out GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.
Introducing THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releasing February 14, 2023). Learn more, pre-order, and receive a free pennant, here.
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Fred Penner is a Canadian sensation whose television show and hit songs like “The Cat Came Back” was part of so many of our childhoods. But what few of us knew was how much he understood the pain of growing up. He lost his alcoholic father and his 12-year-old sister in the same year. He turned to music. And his gentle wisdom and songs have invited us—children and adults alike—to stay curious and kind in a hard world.
In this episode, Kate and Fred discuss:
I have so many memories singing along to Fred’s music as a kid and felt so lucky to get to speak to him today.
CW: alcoholism, death of sibling
***
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We are going to practice the season of Advent together. Download a free Advent guide, here.
Introducing THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releasing February 14, 2023). Learn more, pre-order, and receive a free pennant, here.
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Today, I have a very special BONUS episode for you all.
Glennon Doyle, author of Untamed, watched in awe as this simple phrase from Untamed – WE CAN DO HARD THINGS – the mantra that saved her life twenty years ago, became a worldwide rally cry.
Life is freaking hard. We are all doing hard things every day – we love and lose; we forge and end friendships; battle addiction, illness, and loneliness; care for children and parents; struggle in our jobs, our marriages, our divorces; we try to set and hold boundaries – and we fight for equality, purpose, joy, and peace right in the midst of all the hard.
On We Can Do Hard Things, Glennon, her wife Abby Wambach, and her sister Amanda Doyle, do the only thing that has ever made life easier: They talk honestly about the hard. They laugh and cry and help each other carry the hard so we can all live a little bit lighter and braver, free-er, less alone.
And they asked me to join them for a conversation on We Can Do Hard Things about navigating illness and other hard things that this community knows how to dig into with such courage. I can't wait for you all to listen.
CW: some spicy adult language :)
***
Listen to Part 2 of my conversation with Glennon and Amanda, "Walking Our People Through Hard Things," on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify. We talk about what to do and say to people in pain and how to accept that sometimes there is nothing we can do to fix people's problems (and how to live with that helplessness).
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Julia Samuel is a psychologist in the UK who specializes in working with families who have experienced complicated stories of loss and love. So often we can feel overwhelmed by our histories – our family histories – and need a boost to confront dysfunction, speak the truth, and find trusted people to help us look back and look forward.
In this episode, Kate and Julia discuss:
This conversation also is a much-needed reminder that you in all your actual problems and actual pain are far better than any idealized version of you. And maybe that is the exact honesty that might offer us and our families the freedom we long for.
CW: mention of suicide, some spicy adult language :)
***
Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.
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Subscribe to receive blessings in your inbox every week.
No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available in PAPERBACK. Order your copy, today.
Looking for some short spiritual reflections and blessings? Check out GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.
We are going to practice the season of Advent together. Download a free Advent guide, here.
Introducing THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releasing February 14, 2023). Learn more, pre-order, and receive a free pennant, here.
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How do we gather in meaningful ways? After the pandemic took apart so many of our favorite ways of hanging out, we might be out of practice. Or too tired or overwhelmed.
Priya Parker is an expert facilitator who encourages us all to practice being together for different reasons. And they don’t have to be nearly as fancy or predictable as we might think…
In this episode, Kate and Priya discuss:
***
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Subscribe to receive blessings in your inbox every week.
No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available in PAPERBACK. Order your copy, today.
Looking for some short spiritual reflections and blessings? Check out GOOD ENOUGH: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection. Available wherever books are sold.
We are going to practice the season of Advent together. Download a free Advent guide, here.
Introducing THE LIVES WE ACTUALLY HAVE: 100 Blessings for Imperfect Days (releasing February 14, 2023). Learn more, pre-order, and receive a free pennant, here.
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Jay and Katherine Wolf were 26 years old, newly married, and brand new parents when Katherine survived a brain stem stroke that upended their lives. That was fifteen years ago. Today, they continue to live with the enduringness of recovery, caregiving, and care-receiving, all while trying to maintain hope. Theirs is a story of commitment and love in the face of tremendous odds.
In this episode, Kate, Jay, and Katherine discuss:
I felt so grateful to speak with them fifteen years after the original crisis. This tender conversation offers a wide view of their story of hard-won hope.
P.S. If you are someone for whom people didn’t stick around after your crisis, we see you. We love you. I hope you will hear Katherine’s words: “You are worth it.”
CW: stroke survivor
***
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Theologian Stanley Hauerwas has written some of the most influential books on religion in the 20th century. But behind closed doors, he was suffering more than most of us knew. Here, Kate and Stanley talk candidly about his rollercoaster highs and lows of being married to someone with severe mental illness. And why doesn’t God fix our pain? They have some spicy opinions about that.
In this episode, Kate and Stanley discuss:
CW: bipolar, mental illness
***
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Melissa Urban’s (CEO of The Whole30) experience of chronic illness forced her to accept her body’s limitations. You are going to love her practical advice for setting healthy boundaries as a way to protect our relationships, manage our limited capacity (especially for those of us navigating chronic pain or illness or caregiving), and remind ourselves of our inherent worth (regardless of how much you can do).
In this episode, Kate and Melissa discuss:
CW: sexual abuse, addiction
***
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Writer Jeff Chu was raised in a devout Chinese Baptist community, yet struggled to reconcile being gay with the conservative faith of his family. And the feeling of not-quite-belonging gave his life a strong purpose. He became a journalist and a pastor determined to make communities a place where you don’t actually have to “fit in” to belong.
In this episode, Kate and Jeff discuss:
***
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Writer Mary Laura Philpott had all the regular kind of parental worries until her teenage son had his first seizure. She had to learn to balance her fear alongside her love all the while recognizing that everyone has something they are dealing with.
In this episode, Kate and Mary Laura discuss:
CW: epilepsy
***
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Thomas Lynch is an essayist, poet, and funeral director in Milford, Michigan, where he has served since 1974 when he took over the trade from his father. Thomas speaks honestly about life and death and mortality from what he’s learned, standing so close to the edge.
In this episode, Kate and Thomas discuss:
I don’t know quite how to express this, but holy crap. This is one of the best conversations I’ve ever had. I can’t wait to hear what you think.
CW: suicide, death
***
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No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear) is now available wherever books are sold and now available in PAPERBACK. Order your copy, today.
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Arthur Brooks was a professional musician and spent his twenties touring all over the world. Until one day, he stopped being able to hit the notes. He had to reinvent himself entirely, and wonder… what does happiness look like after I lose the career I had worked so hard for?
Now, Arthur writes about high achievers and how they might find meaning and purpose as they experience decline in their bodies or minds or in careers through his bestselling book, Strength to Strength.
In this episode, Kate and Arthur discuss:
Not everyone in this community is #winning at life. For those of us who have been forced off the productivity train, fallen down the success ladder, and now find ourselves wondering if we could be more than the sum of our jobs, this conversation is for you.
***
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Many of us miss the churches of our childhood and are trying to figure out what pieces of our faith to keep and which to leave behind. My guest today knows that better than anyone. Randall Balmer is a historian of American religion at Dartmouth College, THE expert of American evangelicalism, and a pastor’s kid (PK!) of a fundamentalist preacher.
In this conversation, Kate and Randy talk about:
Kate ends with a blessing for when faith sometimes breaks your heart.
***
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Ibram Kendi and Kate Bowler have more in common than they would have liked. Historians and professors. Parents of young kids. Diagnosed with Stage IV colon cancer at age 35. No history of the disease in their families.
In this conversation, Dr. Ibram Kendi (who Time magazine’s called one of the most influential people of 2020) and Kate discuss:
CW: colon cancer
***
Looking for the transcript or show notes? Click here.
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I'm Kate Bowler and I am so excited to be back for another season of EVERYTHING HAPPENS. A podcast where we don't have to pretend to explain away our suffering. If your life is not going the way you hoped, I'm someone you do not have to pretend around.
About seven years ago, I was diagnosed with Stage IV colon cancer at age 35. And I have ruined small talk ever since. Thanks to the wonders of immunotherapy, I'm no longer in that sort of endless danger zone of cancer, but it means that I live with my body, often breaking as a kind of chronic condition. And I imagine that's where a lot of us find ourselves one way or another with lives that keep sometimes breaking.
So often people want us to say the easy thing like something terrible happens and we're supposed to say "everything happens for a reason." Or "it made me who I am today." We find ourselves surrounded by a culture who loves us for our positive mindset or our willingness to buy essential oils from our cousin named Jennifer. But on this podcast, we're going to do something different.
There will be no easy answers. There will be no trite, Precious Moments type wisdom. They'll just be suggestions of how to live and breathe and walk through the things that we didn't really want to carry.
We would love to hear from you this season. Leave me a voicemail at 919-322-8731. You can share something that resonated on an episode, a question you have or just tell us your story.
Wherever you listen to podcasts, subscribe so you don't miss a new episode every Tuesday morning starting September 6th.
Bless you, dear listener, and may you bring all of your questions and fears and curiosity to the table. You, in all your joy and pain and uncertainty and doubt and hope, are welcome here.
***
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In this special episode, Kate visited the Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby, at Lambeth Palace in London.
In this funny and poignant conversation, the Archbishop and Kate discuss:
***
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How is it that joy and pain seem to coexist at once? Susan Cain (author of the bestseller Quiet) explores this question in her new book, Bittersweet.
In this conversation, Kate and Susan discuss:
If you ever feel like you didn’t have a word for the sweetness of longings (and why your compassionate heart is a gift), this conversation is for you.
***
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When a random weight-lifting accident left cardiologist Dr. Haider Warraich in chronic pain, he went from being a physician to being a patient in one moment. His experience of chronic pain gives him a hard won insight as he reexamines how we understand and treat pain.
In this conversation, Kate and Haider discuss:
If you are someone (or loves someone) who suffers from chronic pain, this episode is for you. Haider talks with such gentleness about when your pain isn’t believed and how doctors can do a better job at treating their patients in pain.
***
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What do we do when our families are sources of pain, confusion, or harm? How do we (or can we) outgrow our complicated childhoods when we no longer need the defenses we created?
Today, I am speaking with Tara Westover. Tara earned her PhD in history from Cambridge, which is incredible on its own, but particularly when you remember that she had never stepped foot in a classroom until she was 17. She is the author of the bestselling memoir EDUCATED which describes growing up in a survivalist family and her costly pursuit of learning and unlearning.
In this conversation, Kate and Tara discuss:
CW: physical, emotional, and spiritual abuse
***
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Our culture seems convinced that going off-script is unbecoming. Instead, we are rewarded for being buttoned up, perfect (or at least appearing to be), and never ever no-matter-what admit weakness. But… don’t we need each other, especially when facing the most difficult moments?
Author and Death, Sex, and Money podcast host Anna Sale leans into every hard conversation no matter how difficult the topic. In this conversation, Kate and Anna discuss:
What do we lose when we don’t talk about hard things? And what might we gain if we do?
***
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We often have very romantic expectations about parenthood. Parenthood is about a mythical child who will be perfect in a way we haven’t quite put our finger on, and the journey to love them will teach us something reasonably easy about ourselves. But what if we are not the parents we thought we’d be? Or our kids are not the kids we thought we’d have.
Writer Cammie McGovern’s oldest son, Ethan, was diagnosed with autism as a small child. Soon though, he was not just a toddler learning how to play or a child needing adjustments in the classroom. He is an adult who wants to participate in the world, and Cammie is still determined to learn what it means to be an advocate for him and others living with disabilities as they enter adulthood.
In this conversation, Kate and Cammie discuss:
This heartwarming conversation covers everything from love to policy and everything in between, as Cammie describes her son and his future.
***
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Bestselling author Mitch Albom was at the height of his career when his favorite professor was dying. Mitch then spent his Tuesdays with Morrie—conversations that would change the trajectory of his life and career. Mitch continues to walk right up to the edge with the complicated questions around grief, loss, and hope in his books and charitable work.
In this conversation, Kate and Mitch discuss:
CW: ALS, death of a child with a brain tumor
***
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Bestselling novelist Ann Patchett knows how to walk right up to the edge with people she loves. She is the friend who sits with you during chemo, or lets you spill your secrets in the car. She shares what powerful lessons she learned early on about how to approach suffering with humility, knowing you can rarely change a life, but you can be there to witness and be amazed.
In this episode, Kate and Ann discuss:
CW: addiction, death of friends, cancer
***
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Everyone loves to get VERY BOSSY when it comes to our fears. “Don’t worry, be happy!” Just be brave! But maybe ‘being brave’ doesn’t mean ignoring our fears but living alongside them. After all, we live in a world that offers us few guarantees, don’t we?
Writer Taylor Harris has dealt with severe anxiety since she was a child. But when she became a mom, she had to learn to hold her fears alongside her love, especially when her son has an unsolvable illness.
In this conversation, Kate and Taylor discuss:
This conversation will give you courage to hold both your faith and fear, hope and disappointment, especially when we don’t have problems with simple solutions.
CW: a sick child without a diagnosis
***
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Author and priest Liz Tichenor lost her mom and her baby in the same year. Brand new to leading a church and reeling from the grief, the pain was enough to break her. But it didn’t—because other people carried her through.
In this conversation, Kate and Liz discuss:
This episode will restore your hope for communities of faith that can show up for our most tender moments.
CW: suicide, death of a child
***
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Poet Kate Baer found herself inundated with the demands of motherhood and little time to write. Nothing was easy and then, at a breaking point, it felt impossible. If she wanted a creative life, she was going to have to redefine “perfection” (perfect mom! perfect woman!) and learn to tolerate a lot more imperfection instead.
On this episode of Kate & Kate, they discuss:
CW: postpartum depression
***
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I do not imagine that I will settle centuries of debate about just how good we are, except that I believe that it is somewhere between two poles: everything and nothing. Perfection is impossible, but transformation isn’t. We can change a bit, if we really want to. This is the choice embedded in every day, the moment we wake up. We will have to find enough momentum to reach for a life that is never perfect, but good enough.
Jessica Richie, my executive producer and co-writer and co-dreamer of this podcast, started just SAYING THAT. GOOD ENOUGH. Which made us laugh. So we said it again. Good Enough became a little permission slip for us. A little shrug that takes us off the hook for perfection and reminds us that we are human. Again today. Inside fragile bodies and contingent relationships and a whole web of love.
Good Enough: 40ish Devotionals for a Life of Imperfection is available now wherever books are sold.
And as a little treat for you, here is an excerpt from the audiobook, read by yours truly. It’s a little something my grandpa taught me about what it means to be content… and how contentment might look different for all of us.
***
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Rick Mercer didn’t exactly know he was allowed to be proud. As a teenager, he was barely making it through high school and traveling the island province of Newfoundland, Canada, as the sidekick to a kindly clown. But being an outsider gave him a unique perspective. His razor wit, biting political commentary, and celebration of small town dreams would make him one of Canada’s most beloved voices.
Together, Kate and Rick talk about:
This episode is sure to make you laugh (even if the Canadian references go over your head) and feel proud to be where you’re from—no matter how obscure.
CW: spicy language, negative perceptions of coming out
***
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Katie Couric is an award-winning journalist and bestselling author. Her hustle and ambition not only served her career aspirations, but when faced with the unthinkable, she poured those same qualities into tireless advocacy.
In this conversation, Katie and Kate discuss,
Katie has so much to teach us about what happens when our problems cannot be easily solved—no matter how hard we try. In this vulnerable conversation, Katie shares candidly about the lengths she went to avoid grief, but why she had to learn to face it nonetheless. We need the courage to try (and the wisdom to stop).
CW: colon cancer, death of a spouse, death of a sibling, some adult language
***
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My name is Kate Bowler, and I'm a professor at Duke, a writer of some books that have joyfully sarcastic titles, wife, and mom of a boy that is mostly made up of giant flashlight eyeballs and the kind of Canadian that reminds you that she is Canadian this quickly into the conversation.
On the road, less traveled. I took the bumpy one, the kind with those giant moguls. At 35, I was diagnosed with stage four colon cancer. So I have spent a lot of time trying not to die while living in a world that is drunk on the idea that everything will always work out if you are extremely cheerful.
We might not have fewer problems, but we can make each other's lives more bearable when we let go of the embarrassment of not having it together. And then we can begin to feel the love and hope and truth that can be found right here where we are together. I would love it if you joined me.
New episodes begin on February 1st. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, so you don’t miss an episode.
In the meantime,
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How do we reach for wisdom instead of self-help solutions? Much to their embarrassment, New York Times columnist David Brooks and Kate Bowler often find their books in the “Self-Help section.” David sat down with Kate at the historic Sixth & I Synagogue in Washington, D.C. to talk about her book, No Cure For Being Human, and the twisty-turny journey of living without easy answers.
In this live, funny and poignant conversation, David and Kate discuss:
And you cannot miss David’s unplanned pun at the beginning. It was so bad and so funny and nothing can be better.
***
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We're often given a story of birds and bees where two people fall in love and out of their love blooms a perfect little creature. But far too often and for far too many, that isn’t the case.
Writer Sarah Sentilles always knew she wanted to be a mom, so she entered into the foster system with the hope of adopting. But the process was not as simple as she had anticipated.
In this conversation, Kate and Sarah discuss,
Perhaps family is bigger, wider than we've been told. It is a story of belonging and loss and courageous love. And perhaps it involves learning to love a stranger.
***
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What does courage look like in the face of the impossible? Cindy McCain had a front row seat to history, as wife of Arizona Senator and presidential candidate John McCain. In this conversation, Kate and Cindy discuss:
Together, we will discover how courage comes in many forms. The big and bold. The small and steady. Those who look pain and fear directly in the eye. Kate ends with a Blessing for the Brave. Perhaps, we can all gain a bit more courage after listening to this one.
CW: glioblastoma, death of a spouse, addiction
***
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Life is painful. Period. But are there some aspects of our faith or our posture toward the world that can change how we experience it?
Father Richard Rohr is everyone’s favorite preacher of love. Love for each other. Love from God.
In this conversation, Kate and Richard talk about:
Together, might we all learn when to hold on and when to let go.
***
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When she was a child, Alexi Pappas lost her mother to suicide. So when Alexi faced a season of deep depression she knew had to find a different way forward. That’s when her training as an Olympic runner became invaluable.
In this conversation, Kate and Alexi discuss,
Too often professional athletes fall into the pure motivational speaker category. But this conversation with Alexi gently threads the needle about what is possible if you stay a little longer in uncomfortable situations when even getting out of bed feels like a win.
There is so much wisdom we can glean from Alexi’s discipline and willpower.
CW: suicide, depression, mental illness
***
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How do you move forward after an incalculable loss?
Jerry Sittser lost his wife, young daughter, and his mom in one horrific accident. But even as his world stopped, the world kept spinning. He had to learn how to parent his three surviving children in the wake of such grief.
Now, thirty years after the accident that upended his life, Kate and Jerry discuss:
This conversation is an Everything Happens Masterclass on learning to live alongside the reality of lives that come apart for no reason we can explain.
CW: deaths of family members
***
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Do you ever feel a pressure to be positive? Harvard psychologist and bestselling author of Emotional Agility, Dr. Susan David studies the psychological skills critical to thriving in times of complexity and change. Spoiler alert: we don’t need to force ourselves to think happy thoughts. Perhaps there is a better way.
In this conversation, Kate and Susan discuss:
This is the permission you were looking for to feel the full range of your human experience—the good and the bad, the beautiful and the terrible.
***
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Stanley Tucci is a total foodie—of course, he starred in Julie and Julia and brought us the mouth-watering CNN special, Searching for Italy. But when he was diagnosed with oral cancer, his ability to enjoy food might be ruined permanently.
In this conversation, Kate and Stanley discuss,
When life gets small, so often our pleasures dry up. But perhaps it is in that smallness that we might compress our attention, to discover the small joys and simple pleasures that make a life well-lived.
CW: cancer, death of a spouse
***
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Philip Yancey is well-known for his bestselling books like What's So Amazing About Grace and Disappointment with God. But behind all of that spiritual wisdom was a family secret: his sick father left the hospital against the doctor's advice, trusting in God to heal him. He wasn’t healed. Out of this experience, Philip has wrestled with deep questions of faith, doubt, and suffering.
In today's conversation, Philip and I discuss:
This conversation forced me to wonder about how grace works. Perhaps grace, as Philip would say, is a scandal. Because it forces us to think about a love that is unearned, undeserved, and unmerited. All we know sometimes, is that WE need it.
So, blessed are we who live here. In this mystery—this scandal—of grace.
CW: polio, abuse
***
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The bestselling author of Everything Happens for a Reason (And Other Lies I’ve Loved) asks, how do you move forward with a life you didn’t choose?
In this episode, Kate reads an excerpt of No Cure for Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear) — her new memoir that releases TODAY!
We all wish we could boil our life down to simple formulas. Easy-to-grab mantras that tell us how to live. Things like: You only live once! or What doesn't kill you makes you stronger! or just Think Positively! I guess I'll just have to make lemonade out of all those lemons I've been given. But what about when you realize life isn't a series of choices?
More often than we'd like to imagine, things come apart, and what we thought was in our control just isn't anymore. We have to learn to live here. Outside of formulas, outside of cliches, outside of easy steps. We all have to learn to be human, again today.
No Cure for Being Human mines these formulas to find something that is truer, gentler, and maybe a little bit more honest.
Like how all the modern-day-stoics tell you to BE PRESENT! It seems so simple, right? In response to all that is out of control, we should zero in on what is in our control. But the consequences of only living in the present is that we might ignore the past or put a wall around the future. And there is so much wisdom there. Until, of course, it forces us to put too much of our lives on hold in the suspended animation of now, so that's what I thought I might talk to you about today.
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No Cure for Being Human is now available anywhere books are sold.
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What if we never fit in? Or always miss the script that everyone else seems to so easily understand? From Arrested Development’s Buster Bluth to Veep’s Gary Walsh or Toy Story 4’s Forky, Emmy Award Winning actor Tony Hale is an expert in awkward.
In this episode, Kate and Tony talk about:
This conversation will offer you a little gentleness for our awkward selves, our in-pain selves, our out-of-step selves, our misunderstood selves. Bonus: it will also make you laugh.
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What kind of food tastes like love to you? Food has a beautiful way of making us feel less lonely in our pain or in our isolation or in our grief. Star of Netflix’s Queer Eye, Antoni Porowski understands the power of a delicious meal to bring us together and remake us with love.
In this episode, Kate and Antoni discuss:
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Is it possible to be happier? Bestselling author Gretchen Rubin wondered if she could discipline herself to take tiny steps in order to be more content with her actual life. But what about those of us facing something daunting or insurmountable or tragic? Is it possible for us to be happier?
In this conversation, Kate and Gretchen discuss:
Kate ends with A Blessing For Permission to Try.
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Can trauma you experienced as a kid still affect you now? What about the traumatic experiences of our parents and grandparents? Is there a way to undo what California Surgeon General Dr. Nadine Burke Harris calls the “toxic stress response”?
In this conversation, Kate and Nadine discuss:
Kate ends with a Blessing for if You had a Painful Childhood. And whew, will this episode crack you open and heal the tender parts of you you didn’t know needed it.
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Can hilarity and sorrow co-exist? Comedian and actress Cecily Strong (of Saturday Night Live fame) is professionally funny. But after a series of losses, she was forced to discover how devastation and love sometimes exist at the same time—both in great measure.
In this conversation, Kate and Cecily discuss:
Kate ends with a Blessing for the Both/And. This deep conversation about the cost of love will surprise you with its tenderness and offers us all a little room to grieve the things we’ve lost.
CW: glioblastoma
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The Self-Help Industry would like to convince us that everyone is capable of change. Just drink this! Read this book! Pick up this daily habit! Follow these 5 Steps! But how much change are we really capable of?
It’s such a tender question that is best reserved for a brilliant and agile mind, so who better to pose this to than the spectacular brain of Malcolm Gladwell?
In this conversation, Kate and Malcolm discuss:
Kate ends with a Blessing When You Are Forced to Change. It may be one we all need during these strange times.
CW: they briefly discuss the abduction, sexual assault, and murder of a child
***
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We all wish we could fix our lives. And it works!
Until it doesn't.
Until we lose someone we love. Or an addiction ruins the family vacation. Or our parents die. Or we never get that baby. Or we lose our financial security. Or, I don't know, a global pandemic takes away all of our plans.
Until we realize that we are Fragile. Finite. Prone to hangryness.Andjust... human, again today. And maybe that isn't such a bad thing.
My name is Kate Bowler. I'm a professor at Duke University. A wife. A mom. and... at age 35 I was diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer, which was not exactly something I would have picked either.
How do we live alongside the things we didn't choose? The things we can't get back? How do we learn to live when our lives can't be so easily fixed ... like the wellness and self-help culture would like to convince us?
Join me for this season of the Everything Happens Podcast where I will speak to thinkers, authors, experts, comedians, and actors about what they’ve learned in difficult times. Together, we will break down common formulas for how to live… mine them for their truths, and, hopefully, discover something thicker, richer for how to live, beautifully in our actual, fragile lives and broken bodies and delicate relationships.
Because there’s no cure for being human. But we are all good medicine.
New episodes begin on August 17th. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, so you don’t miss an episode.
In the meantime,
Oh! And I have a brand-new book coming out on September 28th called No Cure for Being Human (And Other Truths I Need to Hear). Pre-order your copy today.
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The Everything Happens team is still on a bit of a summer break, but don't worry! We'll be back in August with all new episodes. We thought it might be fun to surprise you with this bonus episode. Kate spoke with her friend, the brilliant and hilarious bestselling writer Kelly Corrigan on Kelly's Podcast: Kelly Corrigan Wonders. Together, the two debunk conventional wisdom like the notion that "Everything Happens for a Reason."
Kate Bowler has trouble nodding along when people say things like “Don’t put that into the universe!” and “God doesn’t give you more than you can handle.” But what she simply CANNOT endure is when someone assures her that “everything happens for a reason.” Her point of view is tied to two absurd truths of her life: she’s a divinity professor at Duke, and she had Stage 4 cancer. She split her time between studying how religion works and getting surgeries that move her belly button around and then recovering from them with her husband who she’s been with since she was in braces and her son, who at six, doesn’t really get why sometimes she can’t do dance parties with him. This conversation will fill you up. Guaranteed.
Listen to more episodes from Kelly Corrigan Wonders.
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In our season six finale, Kate takes us back to the very beginning. In this episode, you’ll hear the unlikely beginning of the Everything Happens podcast, the most terrified Kate’s ever been (for fun reasons), and how love and beauty can surprise us in some of the most unlikely of spaces.
Our team needs a little rest and vitamin D then we’ll be back with new episodes in August (don’t worry!). In the meantime, listen to some of our all time favorite episodes:
In the meantime, visit nocurebook.com to learn more about Kate’s NEW BOOK coming out at the end of September. Find Kate online @KateCbowler and subscribe to our weekly email newsletter at katebowler.com.
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Chaotic childhoods can leave us feeling stuck. Stuck in the roles and relationships and chaos that once felt familiar. Actress Julianna Margulies (best known for her roles in ER and The Good Wife) found incredible success, but nothing seemed to free her from living into past, traumatic dynamics. In this conversation, Kate and Julianna discuss the roles we get trapped inside (I’m the cheerful one! I’m the dutiful one! I'll keep it together!) and how love can surprise us through unlikely strangers and new relationships. Kate ends with a blessing for a permission to change.
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There is a strange tension when we want so badly for the people we love to support us, but want to shield them from the pain at the same time. This is a beautiful, terrible kind of love. In Part Two of our conversation with bestselling author Suleika Jaouad, Kate and Suleika discuss what it is like to be the one suffering—all the guilt and shame and rage and mercy and grace and how we can create better economies of love around those who need it. Kate ends with a blessing for those who feel like their problem is too much to handle—a blessing if you feel like "the bad thing."
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There are two different worlds people inhabit. In one world, people feel infinite bounce. They can see every silver lining and believe in their bones things will always get better and that any set back is probably temporary. But then, there’s the other world. These people know what it feels like to live scan-to-scan and hold their breath when the doctor’s number shows up on their phone. Bestselling author of Between Two Kingdoms, Suleika Jaouad knows what it means to carry this dual citizenship between the kingdom of the well and the kingdom of the sick. In this conversation, Kate and Suleika discuss what it was like to have a terrible diagnosis as a young person and how to keep living when you can’t go back to the way things were. Kate ends with a blessing for those who have lost too much, too quickly.
CW: cancer as a young person, incurable illnesses, fertility treatments
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Everything is in flux. Nothing is the same anymore. How do we live amid all of this uncertainty? Well, psychologist and bestselling author Adam Grant believes we may have to do some re-thinking. In this episode, Kate and Adam speak about the courage it takes to think again about things that we once felt so certain about, how “imposter syndrome” might be a good instinct, and how we all need friends who challenge us (even if it makes us wildly uncomfortable… thanks a lot, Adam!). Oh! And if you listen through to the end, you'll hear a special announcement.
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How do we find “enough” in a life that keeps getting…. harder? Our lives are shrinking. We are shrunk by the pandemic or by illness or by age or by any number of losses. And it can be difficult to feel satisfaction and enjoyment again, especially in the midst of a self-help culture that tries to tell you “EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE.” In this episode, Kate speaks with writer and advice columnist Heather Havrilesky about finding contentment in our bodies, in our parenting, in our relationships, while living a life we didn’t choose. Sometimes we need a smoking appliance day (…that will make more sense when you listen).
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How do we navigate the life in-between? In-between relationships and jobs and friends. In-between independence and dependence. In-between the life we have and the life we’ve always wanted. In this episode, Kate and artist Mari Andrew discuss these liminal spaces, what to do when we’re stuck with the B-side versions of ourselves, and how to make a little more space to explore all the colors of this place in-between.
CW: Guillain-Barre Syndrome, loss of a parent
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When something truly awful happens, we can’t forget. That memory isn’t just stored in our brains. Our bodies keep the score too. Researcher and psychiatrist Bessel van der Kolk has spent his life studying the affects of trauma on adults and children. In this eye-opening conversation, Kate and Bessel address the nature of trauma, how helplessness and agency affect our experiences, and ways to get unstuck.
CW: trauma, PTSD
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Comedian Jamie Lee is now Netflix’s The Wedding Coach where she’s on a mission to help couples survive the craziness of planning a wedding. A wedding is an event, but a marriage is not an event. During the filming of the show, Jamie’s own relationship began to unravel. In this episode, Kate and Jamie exchange hilarious wedding stories (including what 22-year-old bride Kate did on her wedding day) and discuss the micro-griefs of a divorce, and share ways to show love to people experiencing this particular kind of loss.
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Our culture’s obsession with hyper-instrumentalization has meant everything has to be FOR something. But when you are facing unfixable or chronic problems, maybe it’s better to do something for no reason whatsoever. Depression, anxiety, and a grab bag of auto-immune diseases have made humorist Jenny Lawson an expert in the art of the absurd. In this conversation, Kate and Jenny share their tips to getting through horrible days, the evils of insurance bureaucracy, the delight of taxidermy, and discovering joy that you don’t have to “choose.”
CW: depression, suicidal ideation, chronic illnesses, vampires
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We don’t always know how to move through this strange, distended season. The season before the cure or the vaccine or the answer. Before the money comes through or the job opens up or the heartbreak is over. The season where there is hope for someday, but someday is not now. Perhaps here, we need to learn how to pray. In this episode, Kate and Jesuit priest Father James Martin discuss how prayer is for everyone — believer, doubter, or no-thank you-er.
You may be wondering, but Kate. I know you don’t know me but… prayer? Really? This seems a bit sanctimonious. What if I don’t believe in God? Or at least don’t believe that prayer works? What if I’m not the kind of person who prays? Why are you being so bossy about this? Full disclosure: I’m not an amazing pray-er. But I do love people who love to pray. And today I thought we could talk to a wonderful person who can help give us a little more spiritual language to be here, a little scared. A little disappointed. A little hopeful.
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Our bodies tell a story, and we find ourselves having to live inside it. At home. At work. At church. At school. But what happens when the places we love don’t always love us back? In this episode, Kate speaks with theologian Dr. Willie Jennings about the way institutions don’t always value our embodiment and how instead we might create spaces of belonging and love.
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What if the story you’ve been given about your family isn’t the whole truth? Writer Nicole Chung had been told a story like so many adoptees. Your parents wanted a better life for you. God chose you to be part of our family. But then, she found out the truth was far more complicated. In this episode, Kate and Nicole talk about how she learned to look beyond the simple answers and live in the grey space, where stories can’t be neatly summed up in villains and heroes, tragedy and miracles. This conversation will help you live amid uncertainty with a bit more courage.
CW: adoption story
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Sometimes there are stories about ourselves that just need to be true, even if they aren't. Stories about our ancestors or younger selves that help to explain who we are and offer us a little purpose. When it comes to telling a good story, no one does it better than our guest today: Academy Award winner and author Matthew McConaughey. In this episode, Kate and Matthew talk about the stories we tell about ourselves, the mottos that animate our lives, and the half-truths that are true enough.
For discussion questions, transcript, and show notes: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/
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What do you do with a world that is full of things to fear? People we won’t please. Kids who die. Parents who don’t change. Writer Anne Lamott doesn’t sugar-coat a single, terrible thing, but knows the kinds of truths we can stand on. In this conversation, Kate and Anne talk about the good, strong hopes we can reach for. That we are loved and chosen. And friendships and snacks hold us together when we're feeling lost.
For discussion questions, transcript, and show notes: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/anne-lamott-loved-and-chosen/
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Who are we when we can't answer where we're from? Who are we when we can't locate ourselves on family trees or on familiar religious traditions or among genetic traits? How do we live after we thought what was true about our identity is totally upended? In this conversation, Kate speaks with writer Dani Shapiro about uncovering life-altering and long-hidden family secrets, what it means to belong, and what to do when the truth is… complicated.
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/
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There are some people who see need and, rather than feeling stuck by the magnitude of the world's pain, they move toward it. Today's guest is one of those kinds of people. Father Greg Boyle has worked with former gang members in Los Angeles for over thirty years with Homeboy Industries, which employs and trains former gang members and offers free services to facilitate healing. In this conversation, Kate and Father Boyle discuss how living at the margins turns us inside out, how crucial hope is to healing, and why we should all embrace his understanding of kinship.
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/greg-boyle-the-case-for-hope/
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Today’s episode is all about love—the loves that constitute us, the loves that break our hearts, and the loves that keep us going. Actress, producer, and entertainer Priyanka Chopra Jonas is one of the most recognizable people in the world. In this episode, Kate and Priyanka discuss the places and people, loves and losses that make us who we are. Love that is big enough to break our hearts is the only kind worth having.
CW: cancer, death of a parent
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People love to pretend that there are simple formulas for living your best life. Now eat this and you won't get sick. Find that love and you'll never be lonely. Get that promotion and you won't feel like a failure to have that kid and you'll be fulfilled forever. Our culture tells us that we are the masters of our destiny until we aren't. Until a diagnosis or loss or global pandemic or divorce or transition sweeps over our lives and changes everything, then we realize there are some things you can choose and some things you can't. And it's OK that life isn't always getting better.
We can have beauty and meaning, community and love, but we will need to face the truth. Life is a chronic condition and there's no cure for being human.
This season of the Everything Happens Podcast, I will have conversations with some wonderful and kind and hilarious people who've given up on the idea of best life, now I'll talk to actors about their loves and losses, researchers on how our bodies remember our stories, writers who've discovered their families were full of secrets, and spiritual teachers who remind us to look for the light.
This podcast is a place for us to see life as it really is beautiful, terrible, full of hope and despair and everything in between. So let's be human on that journey.
Let's be human together.
A new season of the Everything Happens Podcast launches on Tuesday, February 9th. New episodes will release every week.
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How do you get through a terrible day? What should you not say to someone with cancer? What keeps you believing in God? We thought it might be fun to have you, dear listener, interview Kate for today’s episode. She offers gentle ideas for how to be a good friend to struggling loved ones, how she has found pockets of productivity in this dumpster fire of a year, and what she is hoping for in the New Year. Plus, she ends with a benediction for a year that didn’t turn out like we thought it should.
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/ask-kate-anything-season-five-finale/
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The pandemic introduced many to living with uncertainty. But for some, uncertainty has always been their norm. Actress Nikki Deloach has starred in several Hallmark Christmas movies, but her life hasn’t matched the happily-ever-after plot-lines of her characters. Nikki’s dad was diagnosed with an aggressive form of dementia and her son was diagnosed with congenital heart defects in utero… all in the same week. In this conversation, Kate and Nikki discuss how to live with constant uncertainty, how to stay open to both the terror and the beauty of living close to the edge, and how to make Christmas meaningful when hope is hard to come by.
CW: suicidal ideation, postpartum depression, a parent grappling with a child’s fragile diagnosis, dementia
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/nikki-deloach-a-not-so-hallmark-christmas/
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Emergency Rooms are the theater of life itself. For ER Dr. Michele Harper, work has become a calling—to bear witness to people’s problems both large and small, to advocate for better care, to catch those who fall through society’s cracks, to stand up against discrimination, to remind patients that the pain they have endured is not fair… it was never supposed to be this way. In this episode, Kate and Michele talk about the importance of radical honesty when it comes to advocacy as well as the racial and socio-economic disparities that keep people disproportionately affected by the pandemic… and the anxiety and stress that follows. And still, even after all she has seen and all she has walked through, Michele finds great hope in being broken. Yes, we are shattered, but yes, we will be made into something new.
CW: domestic violence, a doctor discusses a patient’s experience of sexual assault and a patient’s suicidal ideation, racial discrimination
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/michele-harper-beauty-in-the-breaking/
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At the core of nursing is the ability to love a stranger, to care indiscriminately. Christie Watson was a nurse in the UK for 20 years before she began teaching nurses. But when COVID-19 hit, she knew she needed to stand with her colleagues. So she put on her scrubs once again. In this moving conversation, Kate and Christie discuss the cost of COVID on healthcare workers, chaplains, and those who can’t be by their loved ones’ side when they need it most. If you are a nurse, know a nurse, or have been cared by one before, this one is for you.
CW: COVID-19, dying alone
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/christie-watson-bless-the-nurses/
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Though magazines and movie stars try to convince us otherwise, we aren’t all living our BEST LIFE NOW. When humor writer Samantha Irby lost both of her parents at 18, she developed the perfect coping mechanism: finding the absurd in everything. Kate and Samantha have a wide-ranging conversation about topics like grieving their Sweet Valley High life dreams, and how losing your parents as a child is the worst form of lost agency, and how important it is to speak honestly about our fragile, imperfect bodies and love them still.
CW: Chronic illness, death of parents, MS
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/samantha-irby-im-doing-my-best-life-now/
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What does it mean to be blessed? If you were to scroll through social media, you'd assume that "blessed" are the ones with gorgeous, matching families living in open style floor plans. But Jesus had other things in mind. When the Reverend Jan Richardson lost her husband, she continued to write counterintuitive blessings like “A Blessing for the Brokenhearted." In this episode, Kate and Jan talk about the ways grief cracks us open and the ways blessing invites us to stubborn hope.
CW: Death of a spouse
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/jan-richardson-stubborn-hope/
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Are some people more empathetic than others? By studying those on the opposite end of the compassion spectrum—those with psychopathy—researcher Dr. Abigail Marsh discovered something quite surprising. In this episode, Kate and Abigail talk about the purpose of fear, what it really means to be brave, and how we can all learn to better belong to one another.
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/abigail-marsh-extraordinary-empathy/
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Sometimes it feels like the world is irreparably broken. A climate crisis leading to more hurricanes, fires, and melting glaciers. A political season that has ripped families and friends apart. A pandemic that has left us more isolated than ever and even more delicate than before. Even the strongest among us may wonder, "What hope is there? Is love enough to save us?" My guest today is someone who believes in the kind of love that can change everything. In this episode, Kate and Bishop Michael Curry talk about the power of ordinary and extraordinary love to remake ourselves and our communities along with us.
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/bishop-michael-curry-the-power-of-ordinary-love/
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There are some secrets we'd rather not tell, but that eat us alive anyway. Writer Susan Burton was trapped in an eating disorder with no good name. Today's conversation is not a victory story. Issues with our bodies are not ones we overcome because our bodies are, you know, living things. Kate and Susan discuss how we struggle against shame and learn to have compassion for ourselves and our fragile, beautiful bodies.
CW: Disordered eating
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/susan-burton-bless-this-body/
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How do doctors, nurses, and other caring professionals keep their hearts soft when there are forces that make it hard to stay that way? With her radically compassionate approach to medicine, Dr. Victoria Sweet calls us to slow down in a world that loves quick fixes. In today's conversation, Kate and Victoria give us more language about what helps us all stay connected to the people we serve.
CW: Describes father's seizures and medical mistreatment, doctor describing patient care
For show notes, transcripts, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/victoria-sweet-medicine-with-a-soul/
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What does it mean to be called to something? What if that job wears you thin? What if you think you've aged out of your vocation? In this episode, Kate and the Reverend Dr. Will Willimon talk about what to do when the roles we play cost us more than we're willing to pay and how aging invites us to take a new look at our purpose. (Also, you'll hear about the time Kate offered Will a bit of necessary... perspective.)
For show notes, transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/will-willimon-your-work-is-a-calling/
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What do you do when hope feels lost? Abstract artist Lanecia Rouse Tinsley is no stranger to the hopelessness that comes with grief. In extended isolation because of the pandemic, a nationwide reckoning with race, and our own personal losses, we could all use a bit of what Lanecia calls holy seeing. In this episode, Kate and Lanecia discuss how creativity can be an act of resistance and the hope she discovered on a blank canvas.
CW: Miscarriage, death of a child, racism
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/lanecia-rouse-tinsely-when-hope-seems-lost/
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Who are we as we age? Our culture has such poor language for the who-we-are-ness across time. The ways we grow and the things that threaten to diminish us. Clinical psychologist and bestselling author, Mary Pipher knows a lot about the opportunities and costs embedded in aging. In this episode, Kate and Mary offer us a non self-helpy roadmap for how to age beautifully.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/mary-pipher-the-art-of-aging/
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We have thick cultural scripts for what is deemed inspirational and it usually goes like this: You can do it. Never give up. Everything you need is inside of you today. But what do you really need to hear when life is coming apart? Morgan Harper Nichols is someone whose words of encouragement gently lift our chins toward hope. In this episode, Kate and Morgan discuss how important it is to reflect truth and hope and beauty back to one another.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/morgan-harper-nichols-blessed-are-the-mirrors/
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Our lives have shrunk and our choices have been dramatically restricted. But the obligations never stopped, did they? How do we get off the achievement train and build a beautiful life within constraints? Writer Shauna Niequist was on the fast track to burnout when she received advice that changed the pace of her life entirely. Kate and Shauna talk about the productivity myths we believe and how to embrace a slower, smaller life marked by delight.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/shauna-niequist-spread-too-thin/
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What does it feel like to really live? Some people jump out of airplanes. Others prefer for their feet to stay on the floor. Some seek out the feeling of riding the edge of what is possible, and the rest of us are too tired to think about it right now in this pandemic season. Clinical psychologist Dr. Ken Carter studies thrill-seekers. In this episode, Kate and Ken discuss fear—how we manage it and how we live alongside it.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/ken-carter-living-alongside-fear/
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Parenting isn't always Instagram-worthy, but the American myth of perfectionism rarely shows that messy middle. Kristen Howerton, mom of four, therapist, and author of Rage Against the Minivan, gives us the permission slip we all need. The one that says you can opt out of greatness. There is no winning in parenthood.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/kristen-howerton-worlds-okayest-mom/
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What do we do when the institutions that are supposed to protect us, fail? As a child, Rachael Denhollander was sexually abused by USA Gymnastics team doctor, Larry Nassar. When she came forward with her story, over 300 other women came forward too—eventually bringing him to justice. In this episode, Kate and Rachael talk about how love must be the motivation behind justice and how our worth cannot be taken away, no matter what happens to us.
CW: Sexual abuse and assault
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/rachael-denhollander-the-pursuit-of-justice/
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Ray Hinton spent 30 years on death row for a crime he didn’t commit. With the help of justice lawyer Bryan Stevenson, Ray won his release in 2015. In this episode, Kate and Ray discuss the experience of not being believed, a justice system that works against you because of the color of your skin, and the sustaining power of unconditional love.
CW: Incarceration, death penalty, racism
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/anthony-ray-hinton-the-sun-does-shine/
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When a group of young moms died around the same time, clinicians Justin Yopp and Don Rosenstein wanted to refer their widowed spouses to a grief support group... but none existed. So they started their own. Kate, Justin, and Don discuss the loss of imagined futures and the particular needs of young, widowed parents. Together, they uncover the magic of we.
CW: Doctors describe their work with patients who have cancer, death of a spouse
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/justin-yopp-and-don-rosenstein-the-magic-of-we/
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What if your life hasn’t turn out like you thought it would? When writer Heather Lanier’s daughter was born with a rare genetic syndrome, she learned that the world will not always see her beloved as good. In this conversation, Kate and Heather discuss how it’s okay that we are not summed up on bell curves. Perhaps the bodies in which we dwell are whole enough.
CW: Difficult labor
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/heather-lanier-whole-and-holy/
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Timothy Omundson knows what it feels like to have well-made plans come apart after he suffered a massive stroke at the height of his acting career. Kate speaks with Tim and Joel McHale about the power of hard work and friendship.
CW: Stroke, Chronic illness
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/timothy-omundson-joel-mchale-flying-buttresses/
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When Jason Rosenthal’s wife died, she left him a gift that he couldn’t even have known to ask for—in the form of a viral Modern Love article. Today’s episode is about the kind of love that walks us to the very edge and charts a way forward. Even when forward seems impossible to imagine.
CW: Death of a spouse, ovarian cancer
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/jason-rosenthal-blank-space/
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Sarah Bessey speaks right to the soft spot where our deepest pain and deepest hope meet. The place where in the bleakest of nights we whisper, What if this doesn’t get better? If you find yourself in that tender spot today, this conversation is for you.
CW: Miscarriage, car accident
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/sarah-bessey-ordinary-miracles/
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Is fear avoidable? What does this emotion do to our bodies and minds? In this episode, Kate speaks with psychologist Hillary McBride on the importance of fear, practicing embodiment, and ways we can better live alongside the things we’re afraid of.
CW: Trauma
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/hillary-mcbride-living-inside-our-bodies/
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There's a story we're told about how we should save ourselves through sheer grit. But many fall on the other side of that success metric. In this episode, Kate and writer and activist Mia Birdsong discuss expanding our definition of family and how to show up when our community needs us—both locally and nationally.
CW: Racism, white supremacy, police violence
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/mia-birdsong-community-as-a-verb/
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Wes Moore had a rough childhood growing up in Baltimore. His father died when he was a child, he struggled in school and was arrested for vandalism before something shifted. Moore grew up to be a Rhodes Scholar, White House fellow, and published writer. And along the way, he learned of another man who shared his same name, but is serving a life sentence in prison. He talks with Kate about what he learned from “the other” Wes Moore.
CW: Death of a parent, incarceration
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/fork-in-the-road-with-wes-moore-s1e6/
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Certain people decide to make other people's pain their own. Gary Haugen, founder and CEO of International Justice Mission, is one of those people. In this episode, Kate and Gary talk about how even in the darkest places, joy and goodness can be found.
CW: First hand account of Rwandan Genocide
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/gary-haugen-joy-is-the-oxygen/
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Wajahat Ali was about to give a TED talk on the global case for having more kids, when he received news no parent should ever hear. Kate and Waj speak about parenting amid fear, unexpected kindness, and how kids really are our greatest act of hope.
CW: Pediatric cancer, transplant
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/wajahat-ali-make-me-a-gardener/
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This is the story of one young doctor’s race against the clock as he searches for a cure for his own rare disease that brought him to the brink of death too many times to count. In this episode, Kate and David Fajgenbaum speak about facing impossible odds and how love can turn hope into action.
CW: Death of a parent, chronic illness
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/david-fajgenbaum-hope-wears-sneakers/
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How do we find joy and connection when tragedy surrounds us? In this episode, Kate speaks with bestselling author and psychotherapist Lori Gottlieb about creating daily rhythms, living in the both/and, and experiencing grief in the time of COVID19.
CW: cancer, death of a parent
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/lori-gottlieb-does-my-pain-count/
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We need guides to walk with us when life goes a little off-script. In this episode, Kate speaks with bestselling author Glennon Doyle about unlearning the roles we're stuck inside even when it costs us and what's better than being perfect—being human.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/glennon-doyle-the-love-bridge/
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Pain is like a geography—one that isn't foreign to palliative care physician, Dr. Sunita Puri. Kate and Sunita speak about needing new language for walking the borderlands and how we all might learn to live—and die—with a bit more courage.
CW: Esophageal cancer, chronic illness
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/sunita-puri-the-uncertainty-specialist/
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When fear is overwhelming, sometimes you need to press the button—the emergency button. In this special episode, Kate gets real with the people that she calls when she needs to push the button. You'll hear from actor Joel McHale, writer Nora McInerny, preacher Beth Moore, and Kate's mom for a little dose of courage (and a lot of yelling by one of these people) in these uncertain times.
CW: Coronavirus, death of a spouse, death of a child
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/the-emergency-button/
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Sometimes everything is possible. Sometimes nothing is possible. How do you know the difference? Dr. Ari Johnson works to change the infant and mother mortality rates in Mali. Kate and Ari speak about how when other people are suffering, we must act, even when the problems seem insurmountable. Because your pain is mine too.
CW: Death of children
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/ari-johnson-more-than-enough/
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Psychologist Angela Duckworth studies the significance of grit. There are those who experience a difficult circumstance and scrape by, and there are those who thrive in the aftermath. Together, Angela and Kate explore what makes the difference and how we can develop resiliency in ourselves and our kids.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/angela-duckworth-finding-the-margins/
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US Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy embarked on a listening tour to determine what was ailing Americans. The answer surprised him. In this soulful conversation, he speaks with Kate about loneliness as a public health crisis and how the experience of disconnection affects our ability to weather life’s most difficult storms.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/vivek-murthy-the-loneliness-epidemic/
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Author and speaker Jen Hatmaker ruled the Christian marketplace as the evangelical darling. But when her theology shifted, she learned how harsh the penalties could be. Kate and Jen speak about what it means to lead faithfully when you lose certainty.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/jen-hatmaker-the-preachers-wife/
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Sister Helen Prejean didn't know what she was getting into when she became pen pals with an inmate on death row, a story told in the film, Dead Man Walking. Now, she's a fierce advocate against the death penalty. Sister Helen and Kate talk about finding purpose as a discovery that often begins with gentle nudges and tiny yeses.
CW: Death penalty
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/sister-helen-prejean-the-face-of-love/
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Nora McInerny had a miscarriage, lost her father, and lost her husband all within a few weeks. Much to her surprise, she kept living. But she didn’t “move on.” Nora and Kate discuss how grief is messier and less linear than we imagine. And even when you may feel like you might never “get over” what happened, love is there somehow. Nora shows us why it’s time to reframe how we think about a happy ending.
CW: Miscarriage, death of spouse, death of a parent, brain cancer
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/nora-mcinerny-its-okay-to-laugh/
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How do we prepare our kids for a world we can't always protect them from? Sesame Street creates educational programs to make the most vulnerable among us smarter, stronger, and kinder in the face of difficult realities. On this episode, Kate speaks with Sherrie Westin, the President of Global Impact and Philanthropy at the Sesame Workshop on how to tell our kids the hard truths in age appropriate ways.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/sesame-street-how-do-we-talk-to-kids-about-hard-things/
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Writer Andrew Solomon never felt like he fit in. But studying other communities that celebrate differences transformed his sense of belonging and his parenting. Which aspects of our kids should we attempt to change and which need to be celebrated? Andrew and Kate discuss what it's like to be different from our family, find our people, and love our kids across difference.
CW: Homophobia, disability
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/andrew-solomon-the-stories-of-who-we-are/
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US Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams is committed to combatting the rising fatalities from opioids because he knows the struggle too well. His brother is one of the millions of Americans who is ensnared by addiction. Jerome talks to Kate about how a broken heart helped him understand his job as “America’s doctor.”
CW: Melanoma, opioids, substance abuse, mental illness
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/jerome-adams-we-belong-to-each-other/
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The quality of time depends on our abilities and disabilities, possibilities and limitations. In a world of speed and productivity, Kate speaks with disability theologian John Swinton on how slowing down deepens our ability to love.
CW: Chronic illness
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/john-swinton-the-speed-of-love/
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After an accident left BJ Miller with a serious physical disability, he had to learn how to be patient with his limitations. Now, he’s a palliative care physician who works every day to encourage people to be comfortable with limits and maybe even learn to love them, but not in a Pollyanna way. Kate and BJ discuss how living with the end in mind actually makes life… richer.
CW: Amputation, doctor describing palliative medicine
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/bj-miller-loving-what-is/
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Society likes to tell the narrative of sick to healthy. But what if there are things we can’t just get over? In his novel, Turtles All The Way Down, John Green explores what it is like to live with something we can’t control. Together, Kate and John talk about finding identity amid chronic illness and how love just might save us all.
CW: Mental illness, cancer
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/john-green-chronic-not-curable/
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When bestselling author Kelly Corrigan experienced the death of her dad and dear friend back-to-back, she couldn’t shake the feeling that she wasn’t living as gratefully as she wanted to. She reflects on her love and loss through ordinary moments and everyday sayings. Together, Kate and Kelly explore the phrases we cling to in order to find deeper connection and meaning during difficult times.
CW: Death of parent, death of friend, cancer
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/kelly-corrigan-tell-me-more-s3e2/
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What can we expect in the first moments of loss? How is it possible to grieve someone we may have never met? How can we best support people who are in mourning? In this special conversation, Kate speaks with Reverend Dr. Susan Dunlap about how our minds, bodies, and hearts respond to deep loss and the best practices for allowing ourselves space to grieve well.
Death of friend Rachel Held Evans
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/how-to-grieve-well-a-special-conversation/
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When Jayson Greene’s two-year-old daughter died in a random tragedy, he was forced to find a way forward. What does it look like to hope again after loss? How do you be brave when the world is so terrifying? Jayson and Kate discuss how to stay open to love in the face of fear, especially as parents.
CW: Death of a child
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/jayson-greene-the-language-of-grief/
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Mark Lukach felt like he was hit with a tsunami when his beautiful marriage was upended by mental illness. With one diagnosis, he lost his wife and gained a lifelong patient. Mark and Kate explore the cost of caregiving and the importance of finding the true believers who will love through it all.
CW: Bipolar disorder, mental illness, caregiving for spouse, suicidal ideation
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/mark-lukach-true-believers/
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Author and Episcopal priest Barbara Brown Taylor is no stranger to darkness. After experiencing devastating loss, Barbara explores our culture’s pursuit of the sunny side of life. But perhaps there are things we learn in the dark that we can’t learn in the light. Kate and Barbara discuss the two halves of our lives and how to practice courage even in the scariest of circumstances.
CW: Death of parents, tongue cancer
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/barbara-brown-taylor-life-after-dark-s2e2/
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Why is it so hard to say the right thing to those going through difficult circumstances? Artist Emily McDowell was on the receiving end of some terrible responses after her own diagnosis. Now, she creates kind and irreverent greeting cards that teach us all how to be a little more human. She speaks with Kate about the best and worst things to say and do when our loved ones are hurting.
CW: Hodgkins Lymphoma
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/emily-mcdowell-theres-no-good-card-for-that-s2e1/
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Alan Alda is best known for his prolific acting career. But he has also spent years learning about, and teaching, communication. The Emmy-winning actor and star of television's M*A*S*H* teaches doctors and scientists to communicate more effectively and wrote the recent book “If I Understood You, Would I Have This Look on My Face?” He talks with Kate about why human beings are so bad at talking about sickness -- and about what helps them improve.
CW: Describes dental operation, chronic illness
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/alan-alda-can-you-hear-me-now-s1e7/
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Wes Moore had a rough childhood growing up in Baltimore. His father died when he was a child, he struggled in school and was arrested for vandalism before something shifted. Moore grew up to be a Rhodes Scholar, White House fellow and published writer. And along the way, he learned of another man who shared his same name, but is serving a life sentence in prison. He talks with Kate about what he learned from "the other" Wes Moore.
CW: Death of a parent, incarceration
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/fork-in-the-road-with-wes-moore-s1e6/
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Bestselling author and speaker Margaret Feinberg was writing a book about joy when her world fell apart. Suddenly she was fighting for her life and re-writing the book from scratch. Feinberg talks about how she learned how to be happy again, despite everything.
CW: Cancer
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/joyful-anyways-with-margaret-feinberg-s1e5/
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Washington Post columnist Alexandra Petri is the queen of awkwardness. She didn't audition for "America's Next Top Model" and become a yodeling champion without a high tolerance for the sound of people laughing. And, as it turns out, building up your ability to embrace awkwardness can be a kind of superpower during difficult times…if you know how to use it.
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/awkward-with-alexandra-petri-s1e4/
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When Lucy Kalanithi fell for another doctor, she couldn't know how much love would teach her about suffering. Lucy Kalanithi is the widow of Dr. Paul Kalanithi, author of the bestselling memoir, “When Breath Becomes Air.” She talks about the high cost of love and how all the best things in life are those you are afraid to lose.
CW: Cancer, death of a spouse
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/lucy-kalanithi-costly-love/
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Before Nadia Bolz-Weber became famous as a foul-mouthed pastor and bestselling author, she was an alcoholic and stand-up comedian. This episode is devoted to the insight of outsiders, and how Nadia learned to confront her own demons with hard truths, good company and a delightfully inappropriate sense of humor.
CW: alcoholism, suicide
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/nadia-bolz-weber-the-insight-of-outsiders-s1e1/
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Life isn't always bright and shiny, as Kate Bowler knows. Kate is a young mother, writer and professor who, age 35, Kate, was suddenly diagnosed with Stage IV cancer. In, warm, insightful conversations, Kate talks with people about what they've learned in dark times. Kate teaches at Duke Divinity School and is author of "Everything Happens (And Other Lies I've Loved)."
For show notes, the transcript, and discussion questions: https://katebowler.com/podcasts/
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