Stay ConnectedEveryone Hates Marketers is the only podcast for people sick of marketing bullsh*t. It’s reached 1M+ downloads in less than four years.
Every week, Louis Grenier interviews guests or shares his own no-fluff, actionable marketing insights so you can stand out—without being sleazy.
Copyright: © 2022 Everyone Hates Marketers
Is your organization too afraid of trying new things?
Do you have an idea for an experiment but are not sure how to pitch it to your boss?
Let’s change that.
My guest today is David Arnoux, Co-founder, and Head of Growth at GrowthTribe. In this episode, we talk about developing an experimental mindset, why visual storytelling is vital to get buy-ins, and how to run marketing and growth experiments to find huge wins.
Topics covered:
Resources mentioned:
Lead generation expert Jeanne Hopkins shares her process of setting up a marketing campaign that generates demand and acquires the right customers.
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Go-to-market go-to-expert (see what I did there?!) Asia Matos and I dive into what exactly is a go-to-market strategy when you need one, and how to create one from scratch.
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How do some companies stay on the top while others go out of business?
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Seasoned marketer Edward Nevraumont (ex-Expedia, General Assembly) shares practical tips to calculate the TRUE ROI of marketing.
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Paul Jarvis, the author of "Company of One", challenges the “Growth at All Costs” mindset that cripples companies. Such a contrarian view of the world.
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Perry Marshall explains the 80/20 marketing rule and why you should apply its principles to help simplify your marketing approach. I love this episode because it makes marketing simple.
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All you need is to ask yourself and your customers one simple question.
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Dan Kelsall curses like a sailor. Do not listen to this episode with your kids around.
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Cindy Gallop calls herself "The Michael Bay of Business" because she "blows shit up." Enough said?
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Traditional marketers make you believe that you're competing against products in the same category (direct competitors) or tangent categories (competitive alternatives).
This is far from being the truth. Here's why.
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This episode gives me so much energy every time I listen back to it. Ad agency founder Paul Mellor and I discuss how to make your brand noticed by taking some f*cking risks.
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Tony Award-winner Ken Davenport has produced a long list of Off-Broadway and Broadway shows. He's also known for his innovative marketing stunts, and we delve deeper into these during the episode.
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My second episode with Seth Godin was also super insightful... We begin with the story of Ron Johnson and how his disastrous stint as CEO of JC Penney almost destroyed the chain.
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I still listen to this episode from time to time, even if it's been recorded 4 years ago. What would Seth Godin do if he had to launch a brand new business from scratch, anonymously, with only $1,000?
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David Baker, author of "The Business of Expertise" shares a practical, no-bullshit guide to starting+scaling a marketing agency.
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Noah Kagan (founder of AppSumo/Sumo) takes us through how he would launch a business with $1000 (anonymously). Another classic.
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Don't do it.
Here's why.
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When Wes Bush (founder of the Product-Led Growth Institute) left a job that he hated, he knew he had to pursue something that would give him the energy and drive to work at it consistently every day.
Listen to this episode where he also reveals his 16-step guide to building credibility.
***
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This is the longest episode I've ever recorded. Mark Ritson (Marketing Week columnist and founder of the Mini-MBA in Marketing) shares how he would build a business on a limited budget.
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Forget everything you know about value propositions. Serial startup founder Hiten Shah shares the keys to choosing the right one.
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What do a Simpsons Museum is someone's backyard and writing copy that converts have in common? Find out in that episode with the OG conversion copywriter Joanna Wiebe.
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Richard Shotton, author of "The Choice Factory," shares five little-known behavioral biases that influence the way we buy. Super insightful.
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Behavioral scientist Susan Weinschenk will explain five drivers of human behavior backed by scientific studies and what you should know about them in order to get people to do what you want.
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You've learned that traditional buyer persona advice is BS. Here's how to create 100% accurate and detailed buyer persona.
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Traditional buyer persona advice is centered on demographics information that is useless and potentially harmful.
***
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Three-times founder Katelyn Bourgoin and I talk about a little-known customer data point called "buying triggers." It's a pivotal episode if you want to understand why customers buy.
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Claire Suellentrop introduces the Jobs-to-be-done methodology that is replacing the old method of creating customer personas. This episode is a step-by-step practical guide.
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Save yourself 12 months of time by talking to your customers first. A classic episode with Rob Fitzpatrick, author of "The Mom Test."
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It's not enough to have a good product, the right market, and a splashy brand color. Learn how to be distinctive so you can be noticed, remembered, and talked about.
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This is a replay of my interview with Hiten Shah.
In this episode, we talk about crafting the right value proposition and why keeping it simple is the key to making it successful.
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Go behind the scenes with me to learn how I sold out my latest cohort of Stand The F*ck Out without using scummy marketing.
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Learn why many businesses struggle to achieve excellence and the counterintuitive steps you can take to satisfy your customers.
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Learn why there is no blue ocean, only one, gigantic, red ocean, and learn how to use it to your competitive advantage.
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This is a replay of my second episode with Seth Godin.
We begin with the story of Ron Johnson and how his disastrous stint as CEO of JC Penney almost destroyed the chain.
The reason behind this massive failure will give you the key to understanding your audience so you can change the world around you for the better.
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Here's what "being professional" really means and why you CAN stand the f*ck out without offending the people you seek to serve.
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An explosive, 6-step recipe you can use to capture demand... using one ingredient you've probably been missing.
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Positioning is a concept that's difficult to grasp. Here's my attempt to explain it in 13 principles using a super annoying board game.
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Only 12.5% of the volume of an iceberg remains above water. The rest can't be seen. Just like your marketing.
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This is a replay of my episode with Harry Dry, the creator of MarketingExamples.com.
He has a gift for repurposing content depending on the channel and in today's podcast, he takes you through the process step-by-step.
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This is a replay of my conversation with Matt Kerbel.
Matt previously worked for General Mills, Activision, Lyft, and MeUndies and is now head of marketing and brand strategy at Canoo [edit: he moved to Homie since our interview], so he has a lot of diverse experience under his belt.
In this episode, he talks about developing a marketing organization where brand, performance, and creative marketers all work together in balance. Plus the importance of the entire team getting involved with the end goal.
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This is a replay of my episode with Dan Kelsall, who's not afraid to push boundaries or take risks.
In this episode, the founder of Offended Marketing talks about not playing it safe, thinking laterally, and learning from your mistakes. He also deconstructs three of his most successful campaigns and explains why spending quality time with your client should be a crucial part of your business.
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Traditional marketers make you believe that you're competing against products in the same category (direct competitors) or tangent categories (competitive alternatives).
This is far from being the truth. Here's why.
***
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How do you grow market share in a very competitive category full of established companies? By walking away from the ocean and picking a large swimming pool.
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Traditional buyer persona advice is centered on demographics information that is useless and potentially harmful.
***
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In fact, desperately trying to convince people to change their worldview with facts and figures does not work and might even backfire.
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Hard truth: you might be wasting your time on trivial issues.
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All you need is to ask yourself and your customers one simple question.
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I believe it's the #1 reason why Marketing is not taken seriously.
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This is a differentiation teardown of how Daft Punk became the most influential dance music duo of all time—and 7 lessons you can learn to radically stand out.
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So much bullshit, so much lying, so much over-the-top statements, so many buzzwords that mean nothing.
Here's how to fight it.
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Don't do it.
Here's why.
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Find out what conspiracy theorists and your customers have in common (and why it helps people make decisions).
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Are you on the verge of launching your product but unsure about your go-to-market strategy?
After 2 years of trying, I finally got to talk to Meghan Keaney Anderson, (now ex-)VP of Marketing at HubSpot.
It was well worth the wait. In this episode, you will learn how to target your marketing regardless of the size of your business, why your beliefs and mindset are so important, and how choosing an enemy could put you at a marketing advantage.
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Designing products and then selling them is one of the biggest challenges for startups and entrepreneurs. After all, whatever you create, it has to be something that people care about. It's not easy selling something that solves a non-existent problem.
And this is what I talk about with my guest Shay Howe. Not only is he the VP of Platform Strategy at Active Campaign, but he also mentors startups at TechStars about designing and selling better products.
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Susan Englehutt is the founder and creator of The Way Buyers Buy. She previously worked for small, medium companies and big names like Microsoft, IBM, and Dell.
She’s intuitive and knows her buyers, and she understands how to bridge the gap between sales and marketing, which traditionally causes tension in companies. Susan explains more about that and goes deeper into the three stages of the buying process.
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When you’re pressed to deliver results, it’s tempting to chase the new, shiny trends. But to be an effective, no-BS marketer, you need to have the conviction to say “No.”
This week we have Edward Nevraumont, an experienced marketing consultant who has worked with companies like Expedia, A Place For Mom, and General Assembly. In this episode, you’ll learn how to find and execute ideas with efficiency, calculate the true ROI of your marketing activities, and spark real success.
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Joe Glover is the kind of person who gives marketing a good name. While some may be guilty of aggressive marketing and using hacks to get as many members as possible, Joe uses an entirely different approach. He believes in leading with kindness.
His tagline is Positively Lovely which might sound a bit crazy in the marketing world today, but not does he live by this, he does it with great success and has built a community of over 16,000 people in the UK and the US. I talk to Joe about his beliefs and how it all started with a small meetup.com group.
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My guest today has over 20 years worth of experience, has worked with more than five major companies during that time, and was VP at four of them. He's currently chief marketing officer at Gong, the revenue intelligence platform.
In this episode, Udi Ledergor talks about how he draws on these experiences whenever he starts with a new company and what steps he takes to make his role a success whilst building a successful team.
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My guest today has over 20 years worth of experience, has worked with more than five major companies during that time, and was VP at four of them. He's currently chief marketing officer at Gong, the revenue intelligence platform.
In this episode, Udi Ledergor talks about how he draws on these experiences whenever he starts with a new company and what steps he takes to make his role a success whilst building a successful team.
***
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"How do you make people instantly understand what you do? How to become an authority in my field? How to create content that doesn't sound like everyone else? How to stand out as a job candidate? How to stand out from massive competition?"
This is a sample of the questions I've answered during a free + live "hot seat" coaching session (that took place on Jan 27, 2021).
I was so frustrated by empty advice from so-called experts on differentiation that I organized this webinar to help consultants, entrepreneurs, in-house marketers get unstuck and stand out with real, actionable advice tailored to their needs.
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If you want to go further to make your product/service radically stand out, check out my 8-week high-intensity program (applications for the next cohort open Monday, Feb 1st): EveryoneHatesMarketers.com/stfo
Tony Award-winner Ken Davenport has produced a long list of Off-Broadway and Broadway shows. He's also known for his innovative marketing stunts, and we delve deeper into these during the episode.
His marketing methods may not be conventional, but they are inspirational and can be adapted to raise awareness no matter what your product or market.
***
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Kyle Lacy is the CMO of Lessonly, where, unsurprisingly, he leads a team of marketers.
Here’s a more surprising bit: he also looks after a group of outbound sales reps. In our conversation today, we talk about that and expand on Kyle’s firmly held belief that marketing should run sales. We discuss what that means for you and your company and how to make it happen.
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Are you feeling burnt out at the end of your workday? Do you feel like your flailing around with no direction when working with your current clients? Kaleigh Moore was in your position not too long ago. Now after taking a leap as a niche freelance writer, Kaleigh runs a successful business writing blog content for e-commerce platforms and SaaS tools.
Kaleigh joins the show today to help us understand how to find work your passionate about and make money doing it. We discuss how to find your niche and properly position your brand so people remember what you do and you can work with clients on your own terms.
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To take your pitches, presentations, and positioning to the next level, you have to tap into the power of narrative storytelling.
My guest today is Andy Raskin, strategic consultant and storytelling expert. In this episode, you'll learn how to use storytelling frameworks to establish trust, create emotional connections, and gain traction.
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Lindsey Christensen believes that the role of marketing goes far beyond that of making money.
In this episode, she talks to me about how once companies define their values and missions, they should stay connected to them and promote them in their marketing. We also discuss the need for diversity and change within the tech industry.
With over 14 years of experience within the business, she is currently CMO of the design and development consultancy, thoughtbot.
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What do you do if your customers just don't "get" your product?
My guest today is Jane Portman, UI design expert, and co-founder of Userlist.io. We talked about why Userlist initial positioning didn't work, and the ten steps Jane and the Userlist team took to develop a new product positioning. From recruiting customers, to running customer interviews, and discovering the patterns and themes amongst qualitative data.
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Morgan Molnar lives and breathes data. She began her career in marketing effectiveness analytics at Nielsen before her present position as director of product marketing at SurveyMonkey.
During our conversation, she explained what market research means to her and dispelled some of the myths and lies surrounding surveying. She also offers a compelling argument that providing it's done right, there are considerable benefits from using surveys to gather data.
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Mark Ritson tells things as they are, and that’s why he’s one of my favorite marketers.
The founder of the Mini MBA in Marketing, he’s a long-standing columnist for marketing week, has worked with some of the world’s biggest brands, and has taught at some of the top business schools.
In this longest ever episode of Everyone Hates Marketers, I challenge Mark to tell us how he would build a business on a limited budget.
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Sarah Weise is a bestselling author, founder of the award-winning Bixa research studio, and has worked with some of the world's biggest brands.
She recently turned her attention to the largest living generation, Generation Z, and her book, InstaBrain, is all about what makes them different and how to market to them.
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Hybrency founder, John James, believes that humans are the most important single reason businesses fail to thrive. But how do you weed out internal biases in your business?
As host of the podcast, Champagne Strategy, John specializes in deconstructing world-class strategies and growth marketing.
In this episode, he explains how to crush bias to enable your business to flourish.
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What is a go-to-market strategy, exactly?
In today’s episode, we’ll define the term in details and dive into the real, actionable steps to design an effective go-to-market strategy.
My guest today is Asia Matos, an early-stage startup marketing expert, and the founder and CEO of Demand Maven.
We’re going to dive into what exactly is a go-to-market strategy, when you need one, and how to create one from scratch.
***
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Khalid Saleh has a wealth of experience in conversion optimization, and it’s not as complicated as you might think. In fact, strip out the jargon and talk to customers like real people and you’re halfway there.
But what is it that makes people convert from showing interest to finally buying?
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You should be very familiar with my guest today.
As a serial entrepreneur, he’s founded and co-founded multiple companies over the past 20 years including, KISSmetrics and Crazy Egg. He’s now CEO of FYI, a solution for having all of your documents in one place.
In this episode, Hiten talks about value proposition and why keeping it simple is the key to making it successful.
***
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This is the second time Hillary Weiss has been on the podcast, and now she's newly retired from copywriting. Instead, she spends her time focusing on coaching for creatives.
In this episode, she takes us through the mistakes that people make when launching a product and shares steps for a successful launch, from pre-sale and beyond.
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I recorded this episode at the height of the Black Lives Matter movement, and like many of us, you may be struggling with the best way to approach the subject and other social issues in your campaigns.
I’m not the best person to talk about this subject, so I invited the multi-award winning businesswoman Flavilla Fongang onto the podcast.
Flavilla is an expert on the subject and she discusses how you can tackle issues while still coming across as authentic.
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Is your organization too afraid of trying new things? Do you have an idea for an experiment but are not sure how to pitch it to your boss?
Let’s change that.
My guest today is David Arnoux, Co-founder, and Head of Growth at GrowthTribe. In this episode, we talk about developing an experimental mindset, why visual storytelling is vital to get buy-ins, and how to run marketing and growth experiments to find huge wins.
***
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I've left my full-time job at Hotjar to fight marketing bullshit full-time with Everyone Hates Marketers.
In this episode, I explain my reasons behind this choice, why radically standing out is the antidote to bullshit, and what's next for you... and me!
As always, email me louis@everyonehatesmarketers.com if you want to chat.
So, you’ve spent time researching and writing your content, and now here comes the hard part - the pitch. How do you get journalists and publishers to open your email, let alone read what you’ve written?
My guest today is Amanda Milligan, and as an experienced growth and content marketing specialist, she knows her way around words.
In this episode, Amanda shares insights on how to get your pitch noticed. She says that it comes down to just two things that, if done well, should get you noticed.
***
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When Wes Bush left a job that he hated, he knew he had to pursue something that would give him the energy and drive to work at it consistently every day.
Within three years of making that decision, he’d written a book, built a coaching program, and launched the Product-Lead Institute.
In this episode, Wes tells me how he got to that point in his career and the influences behind his decisions.
He also reveals his 16-step guide to building credibility.
***
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Benji Hyam is the co-founder of Grow and Convert, a content marketing agency that does things a little differently to other agencies.
They identify pain points to drive content, conversation, and sales, which is something of a novelty in the world of marketing agencies.
In this episode, I wanted to understand why lead generation was not a priority for marketing agencies, where Benji gets his ideas from, and how he creates high-quality content that converts.
***
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It's been approximately four months since Justine Jordan took on the role of Head of Marketing for Wildbit. In this week's episode, I challenged her to describe those formative weeks. I wanted to know how she worked, questions she asked, and did she have to compromise her beliefs?
The result is an insight into how she immersed herself in the role and how she rejects short-term tactics in favor of long-term, brand-building activities.
***
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In this episode, you will learn how to set up a one-year strategic marketing plan and lead your team to success. My guest today is Kevan Lee, the Director of Marketing at Buffer.
Tune in to hear us discuss your big picture gameplan, how to lead a team effectively, and Kevan's personal career path. He reveals insight into the transition from content writing to strategy and what happened when he tried to take marketing shortcuts in the past.
***
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There is no magic formula to helping your brand stand out amongst the crowd. But if there is one takeaway from today’s episode on how to get your brand noticed it is to take some fucking risks.
Today’s guest, Paul Mellor, founder, and design director at Mellor & Smith, shares with us why their brand and ad agency is successful by keeping it simple, breaking the rules, and you guessed it, taking fucking risks.
***
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Growing your audience faster, storytelling that informs your prospects, and moving your customers down the sales funnel -- these are just a few benefits of video marketing. In this episode, Chris Savage from Wistia joins us to chat about building an audience with video (starting from zero).
***
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Is keyword research still relevant to SEO? Do backlinks matter anymore?
Find out the answer in today's episode. My guest is Tim Soulo, the CMO and the Head of Product Strategy at Ahrefs. Listen in as we deep dive into the technical side of ranking higher on Google -- and exactly how to approach keyword research right now.
***
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Does your sales process line up with your buyer's journey?
In this episode, you'll learn why addressing your customer's concerns during the buying experience can reduce friction and boost conversions.
Tune in as I chat with Barron Caster, the Director of Growth at Rev. He reveals the methods his team used to triple Rev's conversion rates over the last three years—and how you can become a better marketer by applying these principles to your business.
***
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It can be intimidating when it’s time to launch a new product for your business. Tom Morkes joins the show to explain why a simple and straightforward approach will lead to a high converting marketing campaign.
Tom has helped over 100 companies grow their traffic, leads, and sales using his own launch methodology and in this episode, shares the four steps you must execute before launching your product.
***
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It’s time to get customer-obsessed. Katelyn Bourgoin, the three-times founder, turned growth geek joins the podcast to explain the importance of using customer research to figure out what triggers customers to buy.
We discuss the processes Katelyn uses to help companies understand what their customers are trying to achieve, and what barriers are stopping them from achieving it, so they can design better products market them more effectively.
***
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Want to create a better user experience for your customers? Start with user research.
Before you develop a user experience design you need to understand what your customer really wants. In this episode, Els Aerts joins us to explain what user research is, why it’s important, and how you can complete user research on a budget.
***
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If you’ve ever considered using paid ads to generate revenue, this episode is for you. The trick is to make your ad stand out. But how do you do that amidst the noise of the internet?
This is where Sarah Sal comes in. A copywriter for over 10 years, she has a unique take on what she calls interruption marketing. Her fascinating interview will make you rethink everything you thought you knew about ad campaigns.
***
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When Rand Fishkin left Moz in 2018, the marketing world was waiting to see what was going to be his next move. The reality was, he already had it figured out. A new startup in the shape of SparkToro.
In this episode, I talk with him about where the idea for SparkToro came from and how he left his secure and well-paid job to successfully launch a new tool with no capital, no paying customers, and during a global pandemic!
***
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There can be few people in the marketing world who haven’t heard of Neil Patel. At the age of 35, he has already achieved many accolades, including recognition by President Obama as one of the top 100 entrepreneurs under the age of 30.
He’s also known in the marketing world for shady, aggressive tactics like invasive website popups, sexist ads, etc.
But, something changed recently which made him realize the value of focusing on people first...
***
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Seth Godin is back.
We begin with the story of Ron Johnson and how his disastrous stint as CEO of JC Penney almost destroyed the chain.
The reason behind this massive failure will give you the key to understanding your audience so you can change the world around you for the better.
***
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What is marketing psychology?
When it comes to digital marketing, it's easy to drown ourselves in endless data analytics, campaign results, and market research. But marketing boils down to one thing only--humans. Marketing psychology is the study of consumer psychology and the reasoning behind why we make decisions.
Who is Richard Shotton?
My guest today is Richard Shotton, the author of The Choice Factory: 25 Behavioral Biases That Influence What We Buy. He's also the head of behavioral science for Manning Gottlieb OMD, the #1 advertising agency in Europe.
***
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In the world of marketing sameness, where brands copy each other and play it safe, how do you genuinely differentiate yourself?
Peep Laja is the founder of CXL Institute, an in-depth marketing training program. In this episode, he explains how your brand can stand up, stand out, and be different.
***
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My guest today is not afraid to push boundaries or take risks and is most definitely not boring.
In this episode, Dan Kelsall, founder of Offended Marketing, talks about not playing it safe, thinking laterally, and learning from your mistakes. He also deconstructs three of his most successful campaigns and explains why spending quality time with your client should be a crucial part of your business.
***
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In this episode, I talk to a real risk-taker, Harry Dry. He's done his research, knows his channels, and he's even grabbed the attention of Kanye West. He also runs Marketing Examples, a company who, surprisingly enough, provides a selection of real-world marketing examples. He has a gift for repurposing content depending on the channel and in today's podcast, he takes you through the process step-by-step.
Topics covered:
Resources mentioned:
What are your thoughts on customer research? Do you think it takes too long and is a dirty word? Or do you rely on it for your business?
My guest is Joel Klettke, owner of Case Study Buddy, a company that helps you to create case studies. In this episode, he explains how your research and analysis will not only produce killer copy but will inform many aspects of your business - from branding to landing pages and everything in between.
***
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Will your next startup be a success? The truth is, you can never be 100% certain until you test your idea — but you can save yourself 12 months of time by talking to your customers first.
In this episode, Rob Fitzpatrick joins us on the podcast to share how you can validate your business idea by getting better feedback.
***
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In this episode, my guest is Camille Ricketts, Head of Marketing at Notion.
Camille is the former head of Content and Marketing at First Round Capital, and you may also know her from First Round Review. Her CV is very impressive as she’s previously worked for Tesla, VentureBeat, and The Wall Street Journal.
There is so much value in today’s podcast, it’s difficult to know where to start. You’ll learn how to identify which customers make exceptional user stories and how to ensure that they understand what you expect from them. Camille also explains how to use the three-tier interviewing system to encourage your customers to give thorough, specific answers.
***
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My guest today is Matt Kerbel.
Matt previously worked for General Mills, Activision, Lyft, and MeUndies and is now head of marketing and brand strategy at Canoo, so he has a lot of diverse experience under his belt. And if you’ve not yet heard of Canoo, they create electric vehicles for subscription and are due to launch in 2021.
In this episode, he talks about developing a marketing organization where brand, performance, and creative marketers all work together in balance. Plus the importance of the entire team getting involved with the end goal.
***
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In this episode, I welcome back one of our most popular guests, professional copywriter Momoko Price. This time we are focussing on the voice of the customer or VoC and discuss just how important VoC is in marketing. And how it’s not just about listening to and engaging with your customers but also how to create surveys and then take the data and turn it into something valuable.
***
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Are you brilliant at marketing for your clients but fail at marketing your own agency?
It’s not uncommon for agencies, or any business for that matter, to struggle to market themselves, whether it’s through fear of cold calling, a reliance on recommendations or something else.
In this episode I talk to Dan Englander, the CEO Sales Schema, a lead generation company for boutique marketing agencies.
You’ll learn practical steps towards marketing your agency and discover that it’s not as scary as you might think. Plus Dan gives us his thoughts on what marketers should learn today that will help them in the next 5, 10, and 20 years.
***
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If you’ve ever wondered how to grow your business when nobody has an idea who you are, this episode is for you.
Here’s the thing: I know what it’s like to start a business and have to market yourself on a small budget.
What steps do you take when you don’t have the money to spend on advertising and nobody cares about you yet? Ryan Kulp explains his strategy and more inside today’s episode.
***
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In this episode, I'm sharing how I'm dealing with the ongoing crisis as a human being and as a marketer, how you can do the same, and resources to help along the way.
Send your questions via email to louis@everyonehatesmarketers.com or WhatsApp me +353 87 242 9649 and I'll answer in another episode.
Free office hours:
Are you on the verge of launching your product but unsure about your go-to-market strategy?
After 2 years of trying, I finally got to talk to Meghan Keaney Anderson, VP of Marketing at Hubspot. It was well worth the wait.
In this episode, you will learn how to target your marketing regardless of the size of your business, why your beliefs and mindset are so important, and how choosing an enemy could put you at a marketing advantage.
***
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Marketing is about building relationships. Sadly, it’s also something that marketers tend to forget. My guest today will teach you how to get your brand name out there by building relationships with influential individuals.
Today we have Nathan Hirsch, serial entrepreneur and the founder of FreeeUp and Outsource School. In this episode, you’ll learn how to do outreach the right way, outsource your network and relationship management, and build marketing partnerships with the right people.
***
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Funny marketing is memorable, but it’s also not easy. What if there’s a framework to help you use humor in your marketing? My guest today will teach you how to be funny with your copy and increase conversions.
Today we have Lianna Patch, expert conversion copywriter and Copy Director at SNAP Copy. In this episode, you’ll learn how, where, and when to use humor in your copy, how to find jokes that resonate with your audience, and how to convince clients to take risks and get funny.
***
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Do you find it hard to find fresh ideas for your content? My guest today will tell you how to generate content that will resonate with your audience.
Today we have John Collins, Director of Content at Intercom. In this episode, you will learn how to spark emotion through content, get buy-ins from your boss, and the methods to produce bold content ideas.
***
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My guest today is Kai Davis, host of the Make Money Online and Get More Clients podcasts and author of The Outreach Blueprint and Podcast Outreach. In this episode, Kai will teach you the importance of building relationships with people and the 7 steps to launching your first marketing outreach campaign. Marketing outreach is one of the most important marketing skills today, so listen in to learn the best ways to approach it as well as Kai’s recommended resources and software tools.
***
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Do you have a newsletter, or thinking about creating one? If you’re still unsure about how to start or grow it, then this episode is for you.
This week we are joined by Josh Spector, social media marketing and business consultant who has worked with The Oscars, New Line Cinema, actors, podcasters, and more. In this episode, you’ll learn how to position your newsletter, research your audience, and design your value proposition.
***
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Are you a marketing consultant? Do you feel like you're too dependant on referrals to win new clients? If yes, this episode is for you. My guest today will teach you how to use brand marketing to build trust and get more clients.
Joining us for the second time on the podcast, we have Philip Morgan, an expert marketing consultant who specializes in positioning for tech companies and the author of The Positioning Manual for Technical Firms. In this episode, you'll learn why being pushy can damage your brand, when to invest in brand marketing, and how sharing your expertise can help you build trust.
***
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“Growth hacking” is often associated with short-term goals and shady practices. But what if you can use similar growth principles to attract customers in an honest way? My guest today will tell you how to identify the right channels to generate long-term revenue.
This week we are joined by Guillaume Cabane, an expert growth marketing advisor who has worked with top tech startups such as Mention, Drift, and Segment. In this episode, you’ll learn how to audit a marketing channel, craft buyer personas beyond traditional demographics, and generate creative growth ideas.
***
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When you’re pressed to deliver results, it’s tempting to chase the new, shiny trends. But to be an effective, no-BS marketer, you need to have the conviction to say “No.”
This week we have Edward Nevraumont, an experienced marketing consultant who has worked with companies like Expedia, A Place For Mom, and General Assembly. In this episode, you’ll learn how to find and execute ideas with efficiency, calculate the true ROI of your marketing activities, and spark real success.
***
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My guest today is Dave Gerhardt, Director of Marketing at Drift, a conversation-driven marketing and sales platform that works as a virtual assistant for your website. Dave joined Drift as their first marketer two years ago, and he’s also the cohost of the podcast Seeking Wisdom with Drift CEO David Cancel. Dave is a true no-nonsense marketer, and on today’s episode you’re going to learn how to actually connect with people in your marketing and drive sales for your company.
***
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Anyone can start a blog; but to generate income from it, you’ll need more than just writing skills. My guest today will tell you how you can build a profitable blog from scratch.
This week we are joined by Ryan Robinson, a writer, part-time entrepreneur, and content marketing consultant. In this episode, you’ll learn how to grow your blog with guest posting, finding your authentic writing voice, and scaling it with freelance writers.
***
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Marketing channels come and go, but email is, for the moment, here to stay. My guest today will tell you how to use emails to increase customer retention and establish trust.
This week we’re joined by Val Geisler, email marketing expert, and CEO of Fix My Churn. In this episode, you’ll learn how to design retention-focused email sequences that help you drive revenue and reduce churn.
***
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To take your pitches, presentations, and positioning to the next level, you have to tap into the power of narrative storytelling.
My guest today is Andy Raskin, strategic consultant and storytelling expert. In this episode, you’ll learn how to use storytelling frameworks to establish trust, create emotional connections, and gain traction.
***
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Building trust with social proof is more than just putting reviews on your website and hoping for the best.
My guest today is Louis Nicholls, author of The Social Proof Handbook, growth consultant, and the founder of Sales for Founders. In this episode, Louis shares his 4-step framework to improve your sales and marketing with social proof.
***
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How to sell more? By earning the awareness, trust, and respect of people who could buy from you. This is, in essence, the core of Rand Fiskin's inbound marketing philosophy. In this episode, Rand Fishkin shares his step-by-step guide to selling online using inbound marketing.
Rand Fishkin is the Co-Founder and Ex-CEO of Moz. Rand Fishkin is one of the best and most transparent marketers. During this hour we talk about the type of marketer that Donald Trump is and what Rand would do if he only had $100 and 6 months to generate $1000 in income. Rand also tells a personal MOZ story that applies to managing people. Along with reasons why bad marketing stands out, and how to win your customer’s trust.
***
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Is your organization too afraid of trying new things? Do you have an idea for an experiment but are not sure how to pitch it to your boss?
Let’s change that.
My guest today is David Arnoux, Co-founder, and Head of Growth at GrowthTribe. In this episode, we talk about developing an experimental mindset, why visual storytelling is vital to get buy-ins, and how to run marketing and growth experiments to find huge wins.
***
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What is a go-to-market strategy, exactly?
In today’s episode, we’ll define the term in details and dive into the real, actionable steps to design an effective go-to-market strategy.
My guest today is Asia Matos, an early-stage startup marketing expert, and the founder and CEO of Demand Maven. We’re going to dive into what exactly is a go-to-market strategy when you need one, and how to create one from scratch.
***
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What are you afraid of? Being ignored? Irrelevant? Useless?
All of the above?
If you want to be respected, successful, and maybe a little famous, it’s time to let go of your fear, take risks, and fight your inner demons.
My guest today is Hillary Weiss, a brand consultant, copywriter, speaker, and the founder of Statement Piece Studio. In this episode, we talk about finding your own unique strength, why shipping consistently is important, and how to become a fearless marketer.
***
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Is your SEO strategy specific enough? Are you trying to reach your customers, or solely tricking Google’s algorithm?
My guest today is SEO expert and growth consultant Eli Schwartz. We talked about the importance of specificity in SEO, why over-reliance on paid acquisition can backfire, why SEO is less about marketing and more about the user experience, and more.
***
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On today’s episode I’m talking to David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founder of Basecamp project management software and creator of Ruby on Rails. He is well-known as a talented developer, but I also think he is one of the best no-bullshit digital marketing persons out there today.
He is a Denmark native and has learned from business practices in both Denmark and the US.
Join us as David shares his path in business and his insights into the world of marketing.
***
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You might find it hard to explain what your product actually does. This leads to a weak messaging on your landing pages, which leads to people not signing up, and ultimately lower revenue.
My guest today is Pedro Cortés, a SaaS marketing and design consultant. We talked about why companies struggle with positioning, Pedro’s framework to discover his clients’ most valuable selling points, and how he translates it to a well-crafted landing page.
***
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What do you do if your customers just don't "get" your product?
My guest today is Jane Portman, UI design expert, and co-founder of Userlist.io. We talked about why Userlist initial positioning didn't work, and the ten steps Jane and the Userlist team took to develop a new product positioning. From recruiting customers, to running customer interviews, and discovering the patterns and themes amongst qualitative data.
***
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Bad news: The content marketing landscape is filled with low-quality content to game Google, without any effort to delivering value to customers. The good news is, not all hope is lost.
My guest today is Len Markidan, the CMO of Podia. In this episode, we discuss why content marketing is here to stay, how to build a customer-driven content marketing strategy, and the st significant content promotion mistake you can make.
***
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Companies always look to hire experienced or “rockstars” marketer, but sometimes it can backfire.
My guest today is Nadya Khoja, the Chief Growth Officer at Venngage. We discussed how Nadya hires for core values alignment, along with the unique interview questions she used to assess it.
She also shared how her authenticity got her a job at Venngage despite having zero marketing experience, and how any aspiring marketers can do it.
***
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My guest today is Sean D’Souza, author of The Brain Audit and the owner of Psychotactics.com. He’s a cartoonist and a marketer with more than 15 years experience in the field and makes a point to take a three-month vacation every year. In this episode, you’re going to learn how to convince people to buy without being pushy using Sean’s methodology called The Brain Audit. It works for all marketing and business types because it uses first principal thinking instead of relying on best practices that come and go. Listen in to learn this step by step process you can apply in your daily work starting today.
***
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He wrote a book about how to build habit-forming products that will get you hooked, and now he's back to help you take control of your time and get sh*t done.
My guest today is Nir Eyal, the author of the best selling book “Hooked: How to Build Habit-Forming Products” and “Indistractable: How to Control Your Attention and Choose Your Life.”, and investor in startups such as Eventbrite, Product Hunt, and Anchor.fm
In today's episode, Nir will share actionable steps to brush off distractions and how you can take control of your life by turning your values into time.
***
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In the fast-paced world of internet business, the hope of overnight success is rampant. The reality is, it takes time. A lot of it. My guest today is Tommy Griffith, the Founder of ClickMinded, which is an SEO training course that teaches you exactly how to increase traffic to any website, as quickly as possible.
Tommy shared how he patiently built ClickMinded over the year while working full-time at Paypal, and later Airbnb, the failures he encountered, and some decisions he made along the way that defies popular opinions.
***
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He had a successful “cushy” job in San Francisco, but when going to work every day, he noticed that something was missing. After shaking off a case of imposter syndrome, he’s now running a remote marketing consulting company in Thailand.
Nigel Stevens, CEO of Organic Growth Marketing Company joins the show to discuss how you can recognize if something is missing in your career and the three business traits you should have before taking the leap!
***
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It can be intimidating when it’s time to launch a new product for your business. Tom Morkes joins the show to explain why a simple and straightforward approach will lead to a high converting marketing campaign.
Tom has helped over 100 companies grow their traffic, leads, and sales using his own launch methodology and in this episode, shares the four steps you must execute before launching your product.
***
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How to create 100% accurate and detailed buyer persona? My guest in this episode is Adele Revella, CEO of the Buyer Persona Institute, speaker and author of a top five business book by Fortune magazine of 2015, Buyer Personas: How to Gain Insight into Your Customer’s Expectations, Align your Marketing Strategies, and Win More Business.
Adele is the perfect person with whom to discuss relating to customers and creating meaningful buyer personas. Listen in for our insightful conversation and Adele’s step-by-step methodology to better understand your customers and improve your sales.
***
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Making her second appearance on the podcast, April Dunford joins us to share the many learning experiences she took from writing and releasing her book, Obviously Awesome: How to Nail Product Positioning So Customers Get It, Buy It, Love It.
After rewriting her book for the fifth time (maybe more), April gives us a bit of insight on how the publishing industry works (or doesn’t work) and why you need to make sure your message is clear and compelling before writing it.
***
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It’s time to get customer-obsessed. Katelyn Bourgoin, the three-times founder, turned growth geek joins the podcast to explain the importance of using customer research to figure out what triggers customers to buy.
We discuss the processes Katelyn uses to help companies understand what their customers are trying to achieve, and what barriers are stopping them from achieving it, so they can design better products market them more effectively.
***
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Are you feeling burnt out at the end of your workday? Do you feel like your flailing around with no direction when working with your current clients? Kaleigh Moore was in your position not too long ago. Now after taking a leap as a niche freelance writer, Kaleigh runs a successful business writing blog content for e-commerce platforms and SaaS tools.
Kaleigh joins the show today to help us understand how to find work your passionate about and make money doing it. We discuss how to find your niche and properly position your brand so people remember what you do and you can work with clients on your own terms.
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There is no magic formula to helping your brand stand out amongst the crowd. But if there is one takeaway from today’s episode on how to get your brand noticed it is to take some fucking risks.
Today’s guest, Paul Mellor, founder, and design director at Mellor & Smith, shares with us why their brand and ad agency is successful by keeping it simple, breaking the rules, and you guessed it, taking fucking risks.
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Not everyone is naturally funny, but every business can make an impactful change to their marketing strategy by infusing humor. Allie LeFevere joins the show today to discuss how to create an endearing audience by making them laugh.
Allie is the co-founder of the humor marketing agency, Obedient, and co-host of the podcast, Fangasm. Allie shares her story of how she created Obedient and why companies should consider avoiding a “water-downed” campaign that appeals to the masses and start to create compelling memorable marketing campaigns.
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Many companies are constantly in a growth mindset, constantly looking for new ways to increase customers and improve their “vanity” metrics that say more is always better.
Paul Jarvis, the author of Company of One, joins the show today to discuss the importance of enjoying the process and why companies should challenge the “Growth at All Costs” mindset that companies find themselves in.
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Not everyone likes to use the word influencer when it comes to marketing, but no one can deny that influencers are a key part of most company’s marketing plans.
In today’s episode, our guest Melinda Byerley, shares her experience on building a successful influencer program for DVD Netflix.
Melinda is a serial entrepreneur and the founding partner of Timeshare CMO. She’s held marketing and e-commerce leadership roles at companies such as PlantSense (sold to Parrot), eBay, PayPal, and Checkpoint Software. Join us as we discuss how to identify brand influencers, keep them engaged, and help grow your business.
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Speaking at a large conference may be intimidating to most people, but today’s guest, Stefanie Grieser, explains why marketers should be actively searching for speaking opportunities.
Stefanie, Co-Founder of Shine, the professional speaker accelerator for women, and Director of Marketing at Sphere, shares her first-hand experience on how to land a speaking gig even if you’ve never spoken at a large event before and takes us step by step on how to nail your next presentation.
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Today's a replay of one of my favorite episodes. Master copywriter and email marketer André Chaperon teaches us his system to send emails that people are actually interested in, gain their trust, and raise email open rates. You will learn how to improve your email marketing by segmenting people the right way, removing the wrong people from your list, and using autoresponders to send the right email at the right time.
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Personalization is becoming more common in the world of today’s marketing. What can a company do when some of the most important marketing channels they use are unable to be personalized?
Ashley Plack, the founder of Strategist Marketing, provides her take on how companies can personalize their marketing by digging deeper into their customer segmentation.
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Stop wasting your marketing dollars and convert your sales leads with a strong conversion funnel. Whether you’re breaking even each month, or your funnel is leaking money, Ewa Wysocka, CEO at Tribe47, shares how to identify issues with your conversion funnel, and how to fix those issues.
Ewa explains the five stages of a conversion funnel, and why measuring ALL of your marketing platforms assures you are optimizing your ROI. She also identifies the most common mistakes she sees when performing an audit of a business’s funnel and the first steps a business should take to fix a faulty funnel.
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It’s time to stop viewing your business as a funnel. If you want your business to grow more efficiently, it’s time to start implementing growth loops into your business’s growth model.
Brian Balfour, Founder/CEO of Reforge, and previously VP of Growth at HubSpot, joins the show to discuss how businesses can identify impactful growth loops and the first few steps of implementation.
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Most marketing gurus will advise you to market your business everywhere, on every channel possible. Not Perry Marshall.
Perry, a best-selling author, speaker, and world-renowned business consultant, joins the show to explain the 80/20 marketing rule and why you should apply its principles to help simplify your marketing approach.
We discuss why you should identify your customers through a disqualification process and how this approach will save you time, improve customer satisfaction, and increase your profits.
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Summary: Want to learn how to write effective copy? Here's your chance to learn from one of the best. This week's episode is a special replay of my interview with Joanna Wiebe, the original conversion copywriter. Tune in to hear Joanna reveal her 3-step process for taking the guesswork out of of copywriting.
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Does your sales process line up with your buyer's journey?
In this episode, you'll learn why addressing your customers' concerns during the buying experience can reduce friction and boost conversions.
Tune in as I chat with Barron Caster, the Director of Growth at Rev. He reveals the methods his team used to triple Rev's conversion rates over the last three years—and how you can become a better marketer by applying these principles to your business.
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Building a marketing team is hard—especially when you’re in the early growth stages of your business.
In the beginning, you’re still identifying which marketing activities work while you’re building a team at the same time. But there a few common mistakes you can avoid with your team that we’re going to discuss today.
We’re joined by Jake Stainer, the former Head of Growth at Typeform and current Head of Digital Growth for TravelPerk. In this episode, Jake shares the biggest lessons he learned about growing a marketing team during his time at Typeform.
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Picture this.
You’ve just accept a new role as the head of marketing with a company. Your ultimate job is to get them noticed. What steps do you take to attract attention and interest?
In today’s episode, you’ll learn how to stand out and breakthrough using the principles behind Drift’s success. Listen in for a special episode, as we welcome Dave Gerdhardt back to the show.
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You want to make an impact, right?
Imagine you’ve just been hired in a new marketing role. What’s the first thing you should do to get your foot in the door? In today’s episode, you’ll learn how to build trust and prove yourself in the first 90 days as a marketer.
Join us in welcoming Claire Suellentrop back to the podcast. Claire is a SaaS marketing strategy consultant and the co-founder of Forget the Funnel, where she teaches tech marketers how to build high-growth SaaS companies.
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Wouldn’t you love to get more value out of customer surveys?
As we all know, talking to customers is the best way to learn more about your audience. We’ve covered surveys and how to get inside your prospects’ head on the show before. But in this episode, we cover an unconventional approach to using surveys inside your sales funnel.
This is a special interview because I’m speaking to not one, but two guests. Rob and Kennedy are the co-founders of ResponseSuites. And they’re here to reveal how you can use surveys to sell more… without pissing your customers off.
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This week is a special replay of one of our most popular episodes. Mark Ritson joined the podcast last year to chat about the technical side of market research, branding, and building out an effective marketing strategy.
Don't miss it. Even if you've heard this interview before, give it another listen. I learn something new every time.
When it comes to your strategy, nothing is more important than market research. My guest today is Mark Ritson. He’s a marketing expert, consultant, and writer for Marketing Week. Mark sat down with me to share his principles for developing a marketing strategy and how to execute market research.
Mark dug into several fascinating tactics that I’d never heard before this interview. I know you’re going to gain a ton of value from this episode.
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Growing your audience faster, storytelling that informs your prospects, and moving your customers down the sales funnel — these are just a few benefits of video marketing. In this episode, Chris Savage from Wistia joins us to chat about building an audience with video (starting from zero).
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Wouldn’t you love to turn every blog post into an acquisition machine? In today’s episode, you’ll learn how you can use content to acquire users that will stick around.
Kieran Flanagan joins the podcast to share what it means to win the hearts and minds of your audience, why the cost of content has grown faster than any other medium in the last five years, and what brands must do to compete in content marketing today.
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Does selling ever make you feel gross? In today’s episode, you’ll learn how to market and write about your products without the sleaze and hype.
Nick Usborne has been working as a copywriter and coach for over 35 years. He joins the podcast to chat about conversational copy, and how to sell without compromising your reputation or the integrity of your personal brands.
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Want to learn how one B2B marketing campaign made $64 million from a $6,000 budget? Ryan Bonnici joins the podcast to share the exact steps he took and how you can follow his strategy. Listen in to hear us talk content marketing, search engine optimization, and how to drive tangible results without using growth hacks.
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In this episode, you’ll learn tips for sharing content that makes a dramatic impact on your business. Kevin Lund joins the podcast to explain what companies usually get wrong in their content marketing, and ways to create content that attracts customers and drives results.
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In this episode, you’ll hear expert sales advice from a successful entrepreneur who’s started multiple businesses from scratch. Steli Efti explains how to sell, and what steps he takes when launching a brand new company (without using his name or network).
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If you've ever felt like a fraud in the marketing industry, this episode is for you. Marketing consultant and coach, Tiffany DaSilva is the guest in today's episode. Tiffany joins the podcast to share how imposter syndrome affected her life and what she's done to overcome those limiting beliefs.
You'll learn tips on how to beat imposter syndrome, so you can get shit done, make an impact, and become a better marketer — and a better human.
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Let’s talk about eliminating chaos in your marketing efforts. In today’s episode, I chat with Hana Abaza about the nitty-gritty of running the marketing for Shopify Plus. She joined the Shopify Plus team while the company was in the midst of crazy growth.
You’ll learn foundational principles for SaaS marketing, the biggest misconceptions about positioning, and how you can drive growth and optimization in a chaotic environment.
We discussed:
Resources:
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What can politics teach us about marketing strategy? Political expert Phillip Stutts joins us for this episode of the show, where he shares how using political principles can help businesses get more out of their marketing. It’s a unique perspective on how to run campaigns and build more human connections.
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Will your next startup be a success? The truth is, you can never be 100% certain until you test your idea — but you can save yourself 12 months of time by talking to your customers first.
In this episode, Rob Fitzpatrick joins us on the podcast to share how you can validate your business idea by getting better feedback.
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Is keyword research still relevant to SEO? Do backlinks matter anymore?
Find out the answer in today’s episode. My guest is Tim Soulo, the CMO and the Head of Product Strategy at Ahrefs. Listen in as we deep dive into the technical side of ranking higher on Google — and exactly how to approach keyword research right now.
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Video has exploded on social media in the last couple of years. Are you using video marketing in your business yet?
My guest is Jason Hsiao, the founder of the Animoto video maker. In today’s episode, Jason shares how to leverage video to build relationships and sell more (without tons of technical knowledge or expensive equipment).
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What is marketing psychology?
When it comes to digital marketing it’s easy to drown ourselves in endless data analytics, campaign results, and market research. But marketing boils down to one thing only–humans. Marketing psychology is the study of consumer psychology and the reasoning behind why we make decisions.
Who is Richard Shotton?
My guest today is Richard Shotton, the author of The Choice Factory: 25 Behavioral Biases That Influence What We Buy. He’s also the head of behavioral science for Manning Gottlieb OMD, the #1 advertising agency in Europe.
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Tons of companies are turning to paid advertising to drive traffic to their websites. You might be considering whether or not this is a good solution for your business too.
What’s the problem with paid traffic? The costs begin to stack up fast.
My guest Nat Eliason is the founder of Growth Machine, a digital marketing agency providing SEO-focused content to grow massive blogs. Today, Nat shares how you can grow your traffic for free and start bringing in thousands of visitors to your website every day.
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In this episode, you will learn how to set up a one-year strategic marketing plan and lead your team to success. My guest today is Kevan Lee, the Director of Marketing at Buffer.
Tune in to hear us discuss your big picture gameplan, how to lead a team effectively, and Kevan’s personal career path. He reveals insight into the transition from content writing to strategy and what happened when he tried to take marketing shortcuts in the past.
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Should we be afraid of automation in digital marketing? We hear some scary predictions about what automation will do to our jobs. In this episode, you’ll learn how much technology will impact the future of advertising.
My guest today is Shawn Twing, one of the top paid traffic specialists in the world. He joins us to talk about the common mistakes he sees in paid traffic, how to prepare for the future of automation, and the one thing technology can never take from humans.
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Do you want to learn how to scale content creation without a team? In this episode, we’re joined by Tracey Wallace, the Editor in Chief at BigCommerce and the founder of Doris Sleep. She gives us a breakdown of everything content marketing, and how you can rank faster on Google without using any tools.
Tracey explains the exact steps she took to help grow the BigCommerce blog into the leading e-commerce marketing blog today–with zero budget and a small team.
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If you’ve ever wondered how to grow your business when nobody has an idea who you are, this episode is for you.
Here’s the thing: I know what it’s like to start a business and have to market yourself on a small budget.
What steps do you take when you don’t have the money to spend on advertising and nobody cares about you yet? Ryan Kulp explains his strategy and more inside today’s episode.
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Are you struggling with content marketing? Well, get ready for this one. I guarantee your perspective will change after listening to today’s guest.
In this episode, we’re joined by Ross Simmonds. He’s an entrepreneur and strategist who provides B2B marketing strategies for founders and marketers–but what’s unique about Ross is his online presence.
He reaches hundreds of thousands of people each day by experimenting with sharing content on tons of platforms. Today, Ross is going to explain exactly how he does it. Whether you sell products or provide a service, you can apply his tips to generate more leads for your business.
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How do some companies stay on the top while others go out of business? The answer is change. If you want to move forward in business you have to embrace adaptation. In fact, it’s always been this way. Technology is just advancing at a faster pace than ever now.
In this episode, we’re joined by branding expert Allen Adamson. He explains what steps companies need to take to stay relevant, how to successfully evolve with the times, and why diversity matters when it comes to your team.
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What is user-centered design and why should we care about it? User-centered design is an approach to understanding your customer and designing an experience from their perspective.
Today, we have Dana DiTomaso on the podcast to share her in-depth process for creating a user-centered design. In this episode, you’ll learn how to discover the key problems in your user experience and what steps you can take to fix them.
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How can we get customers to understand the value of our product when it’s new in the market?
That’s where your product positioning comes in. In this episode, we’re joined by April Dunford to talk about how to get a new product in front of your target audience.
She’s a keynote speaker and a consultant for growth-stage startups in the tech industry. April has worked on 16 successful product launches and shares her lessons learned from the experience in this interview.
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We are replaying our most popular episode of the show this week. My interview with Seth Godin has been download over 6,000 times and it's packed with value.
I believe it's worth listening to again (even if you've already heard our conversation). Seth Godin shares a lot of unconventional ideas in this episode and his key takeaways can take some time to digest.
What would Seth Godin do if he had to launch a brand new business from scratch, anonymously, with only $1,000? What are Seth Godin's marketing secrets?
This episode was a special challenge to my guest Seth Godin. I asked him to come up with a business idea on the fly and walk us through how he would launch an online business with $1,000 and market it to success within 3 months.
Enjoy this special replay. Tune in next week for a brand new interview!
Here's the link to the original episode: Seth Godin's Marketing Secrets
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Welcome to another special episode.
Last week I answered your questions on topics about the podcast and the Everyone Hates Marketers brand. Today’s episode is dedicated to answering your marketing questions.
You all want to know more about subjects like freelancing, networking, startup marketing, and more. Let’s dive in.
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We’re going to switch things up this week.
Last month I asked if you had any questions for me. Quite a few of you reached out to me via LinkedIn, Twitter, and email.
Now I’m going to spend some time answering everything you submitted over the next two weeks. I’ll cover what you want to know about the podcast, dig into some marketing topics and discuss the future of Everyone Hates Marketers.
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How can we use story in our marketing strategy and drive more business?
Storytelling is a skill just like anything else. All it takes to write a mesmerizing story is knowing the key elements of great storytelling and practice.
In this episode, we’re joined by master storyteller Michael Hauge. He’s an author and story expert who has coached on countless Hollywood movie scripts since 1985. Tune in to learn how you can apply Michael’s 6-step storytelling formula to your own business.
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Want to learn how to write a sales hook for your business in 60 seconds?
Former stand-up comedian and copywriting coach Kevin Rogers joins the podcast to talk about personality marketing and how to use humor to capture your customers’ attention.
Not only does Kevin share his four-step system for creating an enticing sales hook, but he covers how you can apply this powerful storytelling formula to your business–even if you don’t have a story to share yet.
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Want to create a better user experience for your customers? Start with user research.
Before you develop a user experience design you need to understand what your customer really wants. In this episode, Els Aerts joins us to explain what user research is, why it’s important, and how you can complete user research on a budget.
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Who are social media influencers and how can they help your business?
In this episode, Tyler Farnsworth joins the podcast to cover a marketing topic we haven’t dug into yet: influencer marketing. We talk about the role influencers play in marketing today, finding the right social media influencer for your campaign, and how you should reach out to them.
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How can your brand stand out in an oversaturated market today?
If you’re a frequent listener, you already know we talk a lot about branding on this podcast. It’s because I believe that branding is the core of marketing. Without a solid foundation in place, your marketing strategy will flop.
In today’s episode, Rebecca Vogels and I chat about the connection between branding, storytelling, and your personal brand.
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Who is Neville Medhora?
Neville Medhora runs a company called Kopywriting Kourse, where he trains business teams on how to write outstanding copy and content that performs. He’s an author, former eCommerce store owner, and has written copy for companies like AppSumo, The Hustle, and SumoMe.
What is the Kopywriting Kourse?
The Kopywriting Kourse is training that’s designed to turn beginning copywriters into pros. Businesses work with Neville to teach their teams how to improve their copy and profitability, while freelancers learn how to jumpstart their copywriting career.
Neville Medhora’s Copywriting Advice
In this interview, Neville explains why he doesn’t think of copywriting as words on a page. His philosophy? Copywriting is about transmitting information from one brain to another. It’s not only the written word on the page but the reaction in your brain when you read those words.
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Scarcity and urgency are powerful persuasion triggers, but are they ethical?
We’ve all seen companies misuse urgency with fake limited time offers. They sell “live” webinar replays with only 20 seats left or slap a countdown timer on their sales page that resets when it hits zero.
How can we use urgency in sales funnels without being sleazy? In episode 72, Jack Born joins the podcast to discuss the misconceptions of deadlines, marketing automation, and more.
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Louis: Bonjour, bonjour and welcome to another episode of EveryoneHatesMarketers.com, the marketing podcast for marketers, founders and tech people who are just sick of shady, aggressive marketing. I’m your host, Louis Grenier.In today’s episode, we’re gonna talk about those shitty, fake countdowns that pollute the web and discuss whether there’s an actual ethical way to leverage urgency and scarcity. You might have heard what I just said.
I have this very weird feeling about these countdowns that I see on websites and things like this because I always assume they are fake and they are creating an artificial deadline. My guest today will help us to check whether that’s true or not, or whether I should take it easy and maybe consider that some countdowns are helpful.
The concept of scarcity has been popularized by the book, Persuasion, by Cialdini and it’s a book that many guests in the past have mentioned and I think a lot of listeners will be familiar with this book. My guest today is a software entrepreneur.
He has helped entrepreneurs maximize their sales through marketing automation. He’s a technical co-founder of DeadlineFunnel.com, which is a tool to build–you’ve guessed it–countdowns on your website or even email. Jack Born, welcome aboard.
Jack: It’s great to be here, Louis. Thank you for having me.
Louis: Thanks for playing the game as well because listeners might not know that, and actually they don’t because it’s an email thread, but a common friend, Andre Chaperon whom I interviewed in the podcast in the past, said I should talk to you and interview you.
As soon as I saw what you were about, I said sorry, I don’t think I can talk to this guy because he’s a bit on the shady side for me because I only saw countdowns and I was like sorry, that won’t work. Then you came back with a nice answer and I realized I was a bit of an asshole in the first place.
Jack: Laughs.
Louis: Let’s go through it in more details and let’s dive into this particular topic because it’s super interesting. First question is: Why do you think I hate countdowns so much? What’s going on in my head right now?
Jack: I would guess probably the reason why you automatically assume that because I founded a company that helps people–among other things–add countdowns to their website, and it really is more detailed than that. We’ll get into that in a little bit.
But you probably jump to the assumption that it was shady marketing tactics because just like me, you’ve seen it used incorrectly. One of the things that I believe is that you can take almost marketing tactic and some people will use it in a way that’s ethical and also do it in a way that’s extremely effective, and we’ve all seen the same marketing tactics and strategies employed in a way that are either shady or just completely ineffective and they completely fall flat.
The reason why … Going back to the origin story, and I’ll keep this brief, but really the whole genesis for why I created Deadline Funnel was because I wanted to be able to leverage something that we all know works, which is urgency and scarcity but do it in a way that was both automated and authentic.
What I saw out there at the time because I really wasn’t looking for a software to build, I already had other stuff I was doing at the time, so I just assumed someone surely has solved this problem, but no one had. Basically all there was available out there were the timers that you hate and I hate, which are someone puts a timer on their page and when the timer hits zero, if you come back tomorrow, it’ll be counting down again.
I didn’t want to use that but I wanted to be able to leverage urgency in a lot of my followup marketing, a lot of which has to do with lead generation and then automated email follow-ups.
That really set me on the path to creating something that I could use and then once I realized that this is a problem that I had, maybe there are others out there that want to solve the same problem. That was really the genesis but I think it comes back to … It is a tactic.
The use of a countdown is a tactic that in its earliest iterations in the early days was used to increase pressure and to drive more sales but at the core of it, it was fundamentally based on a lie. That’s why we created this software so that marketers like us could use urgency without lying.
Louis: Why is that working so much? We all know urgency sells if you’re in the marketing world and as I mentioned in the intro if you’ve read the book, Persuasion by Cialdini, you would know that scarcity sells. What’s happening in your brain that makes it so powerful?
Jack: There have been a lot of studies that have been done, some of them have nothing to do with the marketing realm but there’s something that physiologically is going on. They’ve even put participants in functional MRI machines and presented them with scenarios and situations where something that they own is being taken away from them, and they can see that something physiologically changes in their brain.
I believe it goes back long before recorded history where we had to fight for our survival on a day by day basis, and resources that were scarce were usually the ones that kept us alive. I think that hard wiring in our brains really has persisted even to this day. It’s a trigger that is really built into us.
Fundamentally, when we have something and it’s being taken away, whether it’s the opportunity to take advantage of a special offer or special deal, and we’re about to lose that, we feel pain. There have been studies that show that people experience the fear of loss more than they’re motivated to take action based on a potential gain.
That’s been shown over and over again. The book, Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow–I might be butchering the title a little bit–but that’s a world-renowned economist who’s done many studies that show this over and over again in various different scenarios.
The other thing that’s going on is just that in today’s busy world, people procrastinate and we have a whole lot of things demanding our attention, from running our business to other marketing messages hitting us on a minute by minute or second by second basis. We’ve got iPhones, iPads and all sorts of other slack notifications and things like that, so there’s a lot of things demanding our attention, so the natural set point, the natural default is for all of us to procrastinate as long as possible.
By having a deadline of some sort, whether you use a countdown or not, by having a deadline on your promotions, you’re gonna have more people take action just because of all the people who are interested in paying attention, there’s a large percentage of them who didn’t take action because they’re just going into that natural default mode of procrastinating as long as possible.
Fundamentally there’s a lot going on, but even if you just think in terms of, “Do human beings procrastinate?” The answer is we all know, yes. If we’re being honest, we procrastinate, so a deadline forces people to make a decision. You’re either in or you’re out.
Louis: From experience, having deadlines, works with customers, potential customers, visitors but it also works for you as a company, or as an individual because if you set yourself a deadline that in two weeks time or three weeks time, this will need to be done, you naturally focus your attention on making it happen and take off all the fluff so that you focus on what matters. What I’ve found sometimes is having a publicly available deadline that is for both people outside and people inside works super well.
Surely those people who didn’t take action, let’s say in a control group that didn’t see the countdown, and those people who saw the countdown and just basically took action just because of it, do you have any proof or studies with your clients that show that those people who converted because of it are as qualified and as good as a lead or as a customer than people who didn’t go through?
Jack: That’s an interesting question. I have proof that there’s definitely a surge of sales, near the deadline. I’ll cover that first. I’ll cut to the end and say I don’t have any proof that the quality of the client who’s buying right before the deadline is either better or worse. You’re the first one who’s asked me that, but I would disagree, before I give you the proof that the deadlines increase conversions, one of the things that I would say … Shoot. Lost my train of thought.
Let’s talk about the proof that deadlines increase conversion. Anytime someone does a product launch, whether you’re coming out with your product for the first time or you’re doing a black Friday sale, Cyber Monday, etc. if you look at the … There’s a time where people can jump in, and there’s a cart open. There’s the opportunity for you to jump on the sale, where previously it wasn’t available. That’s usually where there’s a spike in sales.
During a multi-day promotion, usually the sales are gonna taper off, but then it’s right before the deadline where sales really surge and usually that’s when there’s the majority of the activity, right before the close. Although I don’t have any studies whether a client is either good or bad or worse or better, depending on when they purchase, I definitely know for a fact that the biggest spike in sales is right before that deadline …
One thing, I do remember what I was gonna say. You mentioned in the lead up to that question, you said people who bought just because of the deadline. I don’t think that people buy just because of the deadline. One of the things that I tell people all the time is that you can’t steer a parked car.
In other words, if your product is not wanted by the market, if your marketing message is horrible, if people just don’t want what you’re offering or your presenting it in a really crappy way, it’s not like throwing a countdown timer on your page is going to all of the sudden fix that.
What urgency will do, what a deadline will do is it will take something that’s already working and make it all that much better. It’s a maximizer. It’s a conversion rate optimizer but if you’ve got no conversions to optimize, you can’t optimize a zero. You can’t polish a turd.
Louis: Exactly. You can’t polish a turd. I agree with you. Thanks for going through this exercise because I know it’s not easy. I’m trying to challenge you as much as I can so that I can convince myself that in the future, perhaps I could use countdown in a very ethical way, which is what we want to go through together. I’d like to go through a step by step with you that explains how we can use scarcity and urgency in an ethical manner, without being shady marketers, without trying to trick people to do something they don’t want to do.
By the way, before we go through this, I just have one more point. I came upon this article from Nir Eyal, who is the founder of Hooked, building products that stick and that people are hooked to, air quoting right now. He came up with an interesting concept which he calls the regret test.
I think this is the answer to the question as well, and to the debate we’re having right now is as long as people buy from you a good product, first of all, a product that makes their life easier and is good intrinsically, if they bought it because of the deadline as well, that really helped them to move from I’m not buying to buying and they don’t regret this decision after the fact. They’re actually happy with this decision. Then it’s all good.
Jack: Absolutely.
Louis: I feel that the regret test is good when people regret their purchase or their actions as soon as they’ve done it. In this instance, it also probably means that the product wasn’t good enough, or that there was too many shady marketing tactics at once that really put them under pressure to buy it. I think it’s a great way to think about it. Will your people, will your customer regret doing what you wanted them to do, or will they be happy with it?
Jack: That’s a great one. Here’s another one. I was recently at a conference in Chicago, and the speaker at the front of the room brought this up and I jotted it down. The idea is if you truly love someone, if you think about someone that you truly care about in your life, it might be a family member or a dear friend, assuming that they would possibly be an ideal prospect for what you’re offering, would you sell your product to them? Would you use everything that you could in order to convince them?
That’s really an acid test to see do you really believe in your product–because I think you and I have both bought things where we had the buyer’s regret. Doesn’t matter whether they had a countdown or deadline or not, just what we got versus what we thought we were gonna get was two totally different things.
Obviously the person promoting it, at least from my point of view, I’ve thought many times before that it really reflected on the person who was the marketer, who was the person selling it because obviously, they needed the cash flow, because this is not something that they would in good conscience sell to someone that they cared about.
Louis: The mom test. Would you sell that to your mom? Would you write this email to your mom? Would you sell this software to your mom, is usually a good test whether or not you’re doing good marketing. Thanks for that. That’s also a good example.
Let’s go to the practicality of it. Let’s say we have a business. We are selling whatever online, could be software, could be something else. We do want to use urgency and scarcity to try to encourage people to take action but we want to do that in an ethical way. What will be a step by step process that you would go through with them, starting with step one?
Jack: Sure. Step one goes back to what I was saying where you can’t polish a turd. You’ve gotta make sure that there’s a market to match, that people in your market actually want what you’re offering and probably the best way to do that is to do a live promotion.
That might be if you have a subscriber list and this is the first time you’re bringing your product to the world, this is some form of a product launch or a product announcement. It could be a partner webinar that you do with someone but whatever it is, you should do the live promotion for several reasons.
One is because frankly, it’s just easier to implement. In terms of an MVP, it’s a lot easier just to get the promotion out the door when you don’t have to worry about evergreening something. Really taking something and making it evergreen, meaning available 24/7 and making it automated, is something you do after you know that it’s working. You don’t want to do that straight out of the gate because it takes more time and energy to do.
The other reason is because when you do a live promotion, you’re gonna get live feedback, especially for example if it’s in a webinar setting. If there’s some sort of feedback loop, where people can ask you questions, or a product launch, your feedback loop might be in the form of Facebook comments on the various pages or live chat or emails that people send in.
There’s gonna be some form of feedback loop and that feedback loop is gonna help you realize there are some objections, or questions or objections, really they fall into a similar category. There are some questions that are unanswered that we need to build into our marketing message.
Step one would be to do the promotion live.
Louis: Right. What type of offer do you recommend to start with? Let’s say this is the first time we are trying to sell something or we haven’t sold something in a while. What do you feel the best way to start that requires minimum involvement but the highest possible impact?
Jack: Sure. What I would recommend is whatever price you think you’re going to offer it at down the road, if this is the first time that you’re offering it, that you’re doing it live, what I would recommend is doing it at a price discount. We see this pretty commonly for founding members or charter members, that when you’re on someone’s subscriber list and you know that they’re building something. When they first release it, usually there’s an introductory price. That’s not required but that would be my suggestion.
Another one would be to sweeten the deal with some extra add-ons you can have. These can be some bonuses that you have. It might be free reports. It might be other products that you’ve created in the past, but another creative way to do it is to do what, just as an example, I’ve seen Teachable do for some of their summits, where they go to other software companies and they say we’re doing this summit, would you be willing to give us three months free to your software or whatever it is.
Basically, it’s free advertising, free client acquisition, or pseudo-free. I’m doing air quotes now. Free client acquisition for these companies that are in this bonus bundle.
This is a way that teachable doesn’t have to come up with their free content … Sorry, their extra bonuses. They don’t have to go into content generation mode, but they could offer a package of bonuses to sweeten the deal that might be several hundred dollars or possibly several thousands of dollars in value, as long as they’re relevant to the audience and they’re a close fit.
Louis: That’s a nice tip. Definitely a nice tip. When it comes to the deadline and picking the date for your live promotion, that could be step two, I suppose. Let’s you know what you’re selling. Let’s say we’re selling a live webinar that is packed with value, maybe it’s a summary of the best tips that marketers have shared with us in this podcast.
It’s only gonna be done once. It’s truly a live promotion. It’s not a replay of any kind. It’s gonna be live Q&A at the end and all of that. What is your advice, and that might be step two, as I said, how far in the future do you want to set the date that it’s gonna go live? How far away should you prepare for it?
Jack: It’s a balancing act. To give a ridiculously short example, just announcing it the morning of is not enough runway. Two weeks is probably more runway that people can really pay attention to, so what I would recommend is I would think in terms of when is my audience really paying attention to their email inbox because a lot of this is gonna center around their email inbox.
You might be using other methods. You might have an SMS list with permission. You might have a chat bot list. It really depends, but a lot of our clients use permission-based email marketing.
If you have an idea of when your subscribers are looking at their emails or opening their emails and clicking through, that’s probably … For most markets, that’s probably gonna be starting Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and they’re probably gonna be spending less time in their email inbox on Saturday and Sunday, but again, it really depends on your audience.
A B2B type of market is probably gonna be Monday through Friday. What I would is I would want to have a few days of runway to get people amped up and excited and anticipating the webinar.
As a default, out of the gate suggestion, what I would recommend is sometime on a Thursday. In terms of what time of day, again it just really depends on how well you know your audience. Something to keep in mind would be timezones. If you’ve got a lot of people on the west coast, holding it at 10:00 AM Eastern, even if that’s convenient for you, it’s gonna leave out a lot of people who are on the West Coast.
You’ve gotta take these things into consideration but just in terms of how much runway, I would recommend three to four days, so start on a Monday and then really try to build up the anticipation up until the day of the webinar, which I would do on a Thursday.
Louis: We do this webinar on Thursday and we start announcing it maybe a week before, the Thursday before start talking about it, or even starting on a Monday.
Jack: Yeah. Typically I start on the Monday before but there’s no rule that says you couldn’t start a week before. It really depends on how much you have to say about what’s gonna be happening. How much you can really stoke the fires of anticipation and desire leading up to the event.
Louis: Let’s go back to one thing that you mentioned before going to step three. You said that two weeks before may be too long, and you mentioned something around the fact that people want … It won’t hold people’s attention for that long of a time. What do you mean by this? What’s the usual thought process behind this?
Jack: Just based on what I’ve seen, going back many years, product launches, in the internet marketing world, which is where both Andre and I came from, product launches would span an entire month and there weren’t as many competing messages. People could be excited and hold that excitement and hold that attention for about a month.
Then what we’ve seen is that cycle has shortened down from a month to more like two weeks. I was just thinking in terms of … I didn’t know whether we’re describing a full-blown product launch but I thought we were talking about a webinar. It might be a killer webinar but a webinar would be an hour event and then you send out the replay. I’m just thinking what a webinar means to me.
Louis: Sure.
Jack: Webinar in my mind is you get people excited. You want as many people to attend live as possible. Then you try to deliver an hour to an hour and a half of amazing content. Then you have the replay that you send out emails for, and then there’s a deadline several days later, which I’m sure we’ll talk about in a little bit. I was thinking of a one day, one hour or 90-minute event, not say a four-day product launch. Does that make sense?
Louis: It does, and we are on the same page. Step two is actually to set up … To think about the length at which you’re gonna try to hold people’s attention. Step three, I guess we’re gonna start talking about Andre’s email marketing genius. I can sense it. I can sense we’re gonna talk about it somehow. You probably have your own methods as well and your own way of thinking about it.
How do you hold people’s attention? How do you make sure that you send email to your list, you communicate with your people? How do you make sure that during those few days where you want to promote this live webinar that is good value, that they’re interested in it, that they’re actually gonna join it?
Jack: Sure. Andre is … One of the things I learned from Andre a long time ago is the concept of an open loop. This is a concept. The name open loop I believe comes from NLP, neurolinguistics programming, but basically, it means a cliffhanger.
Just as any popular show, to get you tuning into either next week’s show, or in the case of Netflix to binge-watch an entire afternoon of House of Cards, every single episode answers questions from maybe the previous episode or a few episodes back but always asks new questions. There’s a new dilemma, a new conflict that’s opened up and this is unresolved. The only way to resolve it is to tune in next week or to click Watch the Next Episode.
In that same way, leading up to this event, you want to present questions that hopefully are conflicts or issues that your audience had been dealing with themselves and to hint and suggest that there are unique ways that your special guest is going to be able to solve them, or if you have prior conversations, here’s another idea.
This takes a little bit more advanced planning, but if it’s a really big special guest and you want to have as much attendance as possible, maybe you do a quick interview, like you and I are doing right now, where you’ve got the audio and the video and this is a lead up.
Your goal for this is not to deliver the same content you’re gonna deliver on the webinar but talk about the same topic and you lead in with a juicy bit, so it’s almost like a trailer, a movie trailer, for the webinar that’s coming up. You have an enticing, very short segment, maybe 30 seconds or a minute of conversation and then this gives you a taste of what you’re gonna get on the actual live webinar.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed this but with … This is how short our attention span is getting. The ads that you see when you go and watch YouTube, when there’s a video you want to watch. For example I love watching Stephen Colbert, so when I go and I tune into Stephen Colbert, I’ve gotta watch the YouTube ad at the beginning.
What I’ve noticed is that movie trailers, which are supposed to be the short version of the movie, the teaser to get you really excited about going and seeing the movie. In order for you to watch the trailer, rather than hitting Skip Ad, they have a trailer for the trailer in the first five seconds of the video.
You get this really exciting sneak peak, which I guess is the best of, of the trailer. Then you realize this is a trailer but my interest was piqued enough. Now I’m gonna watch this. You actually want to watch the trailer.
Think about it in those terms, like a movie opening, grand movie opening. What sort of clips, what sort of information, what sort of tidbits, behind the scenes info can you drip out? Just to continue this just one more second with the Infinity Wars movie that was just released–which I haven’t seen so don’t spoil it for me–there was lots of behind the scenes stuff, lots of trailers. There were pre-trailers, lots of little bits that were dripped out, to get buzz, to get people talking about it.
To the extent that you can do this, even if you obviously don’t have that type of production quality, you don’t have that type of budget, there are still strategies and tactics that you can borrow from that and use to get people excited because you’ve given them a tidbit. You’ve given them a taste of what’s to come.
You’ve opened up that loop. You’ve asked the question that’s been burning in their mind with the implied or explicit promise that when you attend, this is gonna be answered. Another key thing is if it’s a really special guest, let’s say you’re gonna have … Let’s say I was gonna have Seth Godin on. If we said there’s gonna be 30 minutes of Q&A at the end, where you can ask Seth any question that you want, that’s a huge driver to get people to attend live, is the ability to ask questions at the end.
Louis: First, I did see the movie and I’m not gonna spoil it. I promise. Second, if you’re listening to this episode right now, and you haven’t listened to Andre Chaperon episode about email marketing, please do because it’s packed with proper insight into creating email and more importantly stories that people care about. Going back to the point you made, you made a lot of excellent points, but one that I picked up is about the TV shows.
Now I’m a marketer and I do enjoy the storytelling aspect of marketing and I do know a bit about it now. I cannot help but notice things and I cannot watch TV shows before noticing it. I just have to notice those things. We are watching Billions at the minute with my wife. It was a very good TV show and I noticed that they always have three stories within the story.
You have the main story, the big loop, the one that starts from episode number one or season number one, and finishes until the fucking series finish. Then you have the second side of story that is a bit smaller. It’s maybe every two or three episodes. It opens, there’s an intrigue. There’s something happening in episode one. It’s almost going on episode two and it finishes episode three and then a new one starts.
Then you have the shitty stories inside each episode. It lasts an episode and it’s usually a love related loop, so it’s like one of the characters and it’s focused on his or her love story with somebody specific like she cheated on him or vice versa, and that’s it.
Those three things together create this amazing TV show, but if you deconstruct it, you’re like … It’s a bit shitty as individual stories, but the package is a beautifully done package. That’s a very long point I’m trying to make.
Going back to Andre’s methodology and storytelling in general, in HotJar, which is the company I work for, we set up this exact storytelling for emails, and we had a series of five emails being sent everyday after someone signed up to our upcoming podcast that we launched called the Humans Strike Back. It was a very simple story of me basically fucking up my first six months at HotJar, where I didn’t really know what I did. I had a very weak strategy and I didn’t do things the right way. I focused on the wrong things in particular number instead of people. That’s the story in those five emails.
The open rate for those emails, the first one was more than 75% and the lowest open rate was maybe 55%, 60%. That was higher than anything we ever had, ever. Just because it was based on a story. To go back to the point of what we’re trying to make here together about deadline urgency and scarcity, I think step number three is really about storytelling and it’s super important to make sure that if you want to hold people’s attention for more than 10 seconds, use storytelling as a way to distribute a message because it’s super, super powerful.
Jack: Absolutely.
Louis: Right, step four then. What do we do?
Jack: We’ve talked about when to schedule it. We’ve talked about the lead up to it. I guess the next question would be when should I make the deadline. Again, as with a lot of things, I’ll give a starting point but really it just depends on your market.
If we do the webinar event on Thursday, the first thing that you’re gonna want to do is you’re gonna want to make sure, for this live event that you’re recording it. You’re gonna want to have some backup systems in place. I don’t want to go any deeper into some of those parts of it, but let’s assume that you have a good, viable recording.
You want to get that up as quickly as possible and send out the email to the rest of the people that didn’t show because no matter how good of a job you do, you’re not gonna get 100% of the people to attend a webinar. A decent show-up rate in most markets would be, say 33%. So two out of three people roughly haven’t seen your message.
They were interested enough to register, and they were interested enough to open your emails and even click on things, but they didn’t attend. Maybe it was the wrong time. Maybe something happened, whatever. You still want to get your message in the hands of those people, so you want to send out the replay.
In addition, you want to send out additional emails after that and we can talk about what those emails might include but then you want to pick what your deadline would be. Again, what I would do is I would make sure that the last day of your promotion that’s gonna end with a deadline, you have that on a day where you believe that your audience is going to be in their email inbox. If Sunday is a really bad day for open rates and for attention, you don’t want to end it on a Sunday and here’s why.
As I mentioned before, the last day of a promotion when you have that deadline is where you have the highest number of sales. It’s what I call the Perfect Persuasion Window. That term means that in terms of emails, revenue per email sent, in terms of revenue per visitors landing on your website, that’s gonna … No matter what metric you want to use along the lines of revenue per whatever, that’s gonna be your best period of time, the 12 hours before your deadline.
You want to make sure, number one that it’s on a day where people are gonna be paying attention, not hanging out with their family. Number two, you’re going to want to send more than one email on that day. It’s just a simple fact. We’ve seen it time and time and time again. I’ve never seen an exception to this. When you have your deadline, your last day, when you send more than one email, you will make more sales, period, full stop.
I recommend … I like to recommend people send three emails. If that’s more than you want to send, I at least recommend that you send two, because even just sending that one additional final reminder email is gonna get additional sales. Believe it or not.
Everyone listening to this needs to understand that people are not sitting around waiting for your emails, desperately waiting for the email that you’re going to send today. They could open it, read every word of what you’ve written and to click on it, and to read the webpage and watch the video.
People are busy. Believe it or not, even though you sent an email at 10:00 AM saying today is the last day, I want to make sure you know about it, and you feel like that’s enough. The job is done, I told people. Well, you told people but some people didn’t get the email. Some people didn’t see the email. You need to send another on if you want to make more sales.
Here’s the thing. If you’re doing your job properly as a marketer, as a founder, entrepreneur, et cetera, you and your team will set up your email so that when someone purchases, whether they purchase on the live webinar or whether they purchase right before the deadline, you should be taking them out of the sequence to get additional emails.
Somebody who buys is not gonna see that final call email or the extra two emails that you send that day. So you really should not worry about what are people gonna think? You really should be thinking about how can I … Again, going back to the mom test.
If you truly believe in your product and you believe that your product and service can change the lives of the people that you’re talking to, as long as they’re the right prospect, then you owe it to them, not just your pocketbook, but you owe it to them to send an extra one or two emails and the great thing about it is that those extra one or two emails on that last day are really simple emails. You don’t need to create a really fancy, well written, Andre style email. It’s basically …
Let’s just use the example of if you’re just gonna send one more email, say at 5:00 PM that day. It’s really that simple. Final call. Before I sign out for the day, I just want to send this last email to make sure that you know about it. Some people have been hitting the snooze button but this deal is closing tonight.
Here’s a summary of what we’re offering and why it’s great for you. This is only good until midnight tonight. Click here to join. Just by sending out a real brief recap, that’s really all it takes. You will see a dramatic increase in sales.
If you’re tracking, if you’re using ETM parameters in the links and you’re tracking where your sales are coming from, you’re gonna see that that final email drives a tremendous number of sales that you otherwise wouldn’t get if you just said I feel uncomfortable sending more than one email a day. This is one of those times where you should step outside your comfort zone and send more than one email.
Louis: I’m sure a lot of people listening right now might wonder, if I send that many emails, two people who haven’t made the move, I’m running the risk that they wouldn’t subscribe.
Jack: Yeah, they might. First of all, again it comes back to do you really believe in your product? Do you believe in your service? If you do, you owe it not just to your company’s revenue and your revenue but you owe it to the people who really are interested but they’re procrastinating to send that additional email.
The other thing is that someone who unsubscribes because oh my gosh, you sent me two emails, you sent me a final courtesy reminder, they’re not gonna buy from you anyhow. They’re not ideal … You guys are not a good match. This is their way of signaling what you’re offering isn’t for me. I don’t like your voice. I don’t like whatever. It’s not like you’re going to be losing potential future clients by the droves.
Your unsubscribe rate will be actually relatively low because again, the people who purchase aren’t even gonna see that second email and the people who just aren’t interested, it’s not gonna bother them very much to see that second email because it’s just a final courtesy reminder.
My final thing that I would say about that is for anyone who’s doing live webinars and you’re not sending more than one email in the last day, my advice would be: Treat it as an experiment. Test it out. See what would happen, because what you will find, I guarantee you, what you will find is that you’re gonna make a lot more revenue and you’re gonna get a very, very small uptick in unsubscribes if any.
Louis: I’ve seen a few Facebook ads recently about this guy selling software to do–I don’t know what–but the way he does it is that he sets up webinars and you go on the ad, and you go to the landing page and there is a countdown on top that is always less than 24 hours and you come back the next day and it’s 24 hours again.
He’s basically running webinars on replay three times a day to drive urgency and scarcity. What’s your view on these type of activities and would you classify that as being unethical and where is the line? Where do you think this guy or this gal is using the product, my product in the wrong way? I have another question but I’m gonna keep this …
Jack: Sure. In my mind, it’s real simple. A lot of people … Before I give you where I was going with this, let me start with a simple answer. It’s real simple. If what you’re saying, whether it’s on a live webinar, live event, speaking from the stage, or if you are sending it out in an email, if what you’re saying isn’t true, then it’s unethical. It’s as cut and dry as that.
Where I was about to go before I backtracked to the simple answer is that what a lot of people get confused is that they assume that if the deadline or the countdowns is automated … By the way, our software does more than just put a countdown, but if the countdown or the deadline is automated, then it must be untrue. That’s simply not the fact. There’s a difference between automation, whether we’re using technology to automate something and whether it’s real or not. I’ll give you a perfect example.
You and I are both in the SaaS world. You work for HotJar. I think that I’m not as familiar with HotJar, as I think they have a freemium plan, but there’s a lot of … We both know that there’s a vast number of SaaS companies that the main method of getting someone into their funnel is to have a 14 or 30-day free trial.
When you join, you put in your credit card and you get onboarding emails and you can either say I’m not interested, or you can continue on. You’re using the product and you love it. There is a deadline and the deadline is automated. The end of the free trial is determined solely by when you started the free trial.
You and I both know that these SaaS companies, the vast majority of them, it’s not a fake deadline. If you wait past the deadline, you will be billed. There might be some sort of special rate that you get because you joined through a Facebook ad or something like that. Those deadlines are real, so the SaaS world has been using automated deadlines very effectively for quite a long time.
Other ways that they use it would be even if it doesn’t roll into automated billing, would be a 14 or 30-day free trial that just ends unless you go and add your credit card, unless you upgrade to a paid plan. That’s another example where this is done in an automated fashion but just because it’s automated doesn’t mean that it’s not real.
To come back to what I said earlier, in my mind, it’s real simple. It has nothing to do with whether something is automated. All it has to do with is what you’re saying in your marketing, is it true or not. In terms of this specific example of there’s a webinar registration page and let’s say it says something like this is the only time that you can register for this and then you come back tomorrow and you see this same countdown. That’s bullshit and that’s not the way that … I’m against that.
Louis: It’s a very good way to put it and to be fair, I hadn’t thought about the free trial mechanism because HotJar has a 14-day free trial, and I realize now that it is a countdown, to build scarcity to make sure that people are using and testing the product before they are billed for it.
It’s a good example and I think it also shows that people need to be willing to be open-minded and think outside of what they are certain is wrong or right and it’s always good to talk to people like you who have knowledge in this specific industry.
Jack: Here’s another advantage, a hidden advantage of using a deadline in your promotions. First of all, if you have an evergreen, 24/7 promotion where you don’t have a deadline, you’re losing money, period. I truly believe that.
Here’s another reason why having a deadline of sorts is good. Let’s use the HotJar example. Let’s say it’s a 14-day, totally free trial where someone has to proactively choose to go to the website and enter in their credit card details, or else access to HotJar ends.
At the end of that deadline, for the people that didn’t take action, you can send out a feedback loop mechanism. It could be a survey. It could be could you hit reply to this email. It could be get on the phone with a customer service representative or start a live chat. We see that you started your free trial on X date and you decided not to continue. We’re really bummed out. Could you click this link and let us know?
Think about this. If you didn’t have the deadline, when would you send that out? Because if someone … If there was no deadline, when is the right time to know that someone didn’t use it? If there’s no deadline, I might just still be trying out the free version.
In the same way, if someone is on your email list and you’re trying to get them to buy your product, when is the right time to send out the survey or feedback mechanism that says obviously you’re not gonna buy this. How is it obviously? If you have no deadline, there’s no right time to send out that hey, why didn’t you take action.
Having the deadline not only increases your sales but gives you a great opportunity to perfectly time the feedback loop to find out you were interested in this. You attended the webinar. Just curious, why didn’t you buy? No hard feelings. I’m not gonna high pressure sales you but I just would love to hear your untarnished, unfiltered version about what we could do better.
Louis: Jack, thanks so much for going through this exercise with me. I know I’m not easy, but I think you came up with very good points and I tried my best to play devil’s advocate. I’m not that against countdowns but I wanted to make sure that even the people who really didn’t believe in it, listening to this episode would be convinced by what you have to say.
I have a few questions that I always ask my guest before … At the end of each episode. The first one is what do you think marketers should learn today that will help them in the next 10 years, 20 years, 50 years?
Jack: In my opinion … sorry, I hope I’m answering the question as it was intended but in my opinion, public speaking. No matter how advanced technology gets, I think it’s just going to continue to aid in our ability to get our message out there.
At its core, our message is our ability to either get on camera, whether it’s recorded or get on a webinar if it’s live, stand on a stage, give an elevator speech in an elevator when you happen to be standing next to an angel investor or your ideal prospect but your ability to deliver your message in a persuasive way to the right audience. I don’t even think that will be outdated, the ability to speak publicly.
Louis: What are the top three best resources you would recommend our listeners? It could be software. Don’t mention yours because we’ll talk about your product a bit more, so outside of DeadlineFunnel.com, any other software, books, podcasts, conferences, anything?
Jack: We’ve already thrown a lot of love Andre’s way, but I really respect Andre. He’s a great friend of mine. His ethical compass points true north. I’ve met a lot of people whose ethical compass either it doesn’t point true north or doesn’t exist. Andre is a great guy, so anything that he’s got, [inaudible 00:53:07] madness or his storytelling courses.
He’s got a new one he came out with called Sphere of Influence. He’s got some really great stuff and you’ll learn a lot just by being on his subscription list. That would be the first one. Let me think what else.
Another guy that I truly value what he says and I’ve known him for a long time and I’ve worked for him is a guy named Perry Marshall. He comes out with some brilliant stuff. The Chicago that I came back from, he put on. He was one of the first guys who cracked the code on direct response marketing for Google AdWords. He’s got, if not the number one book on Google AdWords advertising, it’s tied for number one with another guy named Brad Geddes.
Perry Marshall is a super savvy guy and the way his mind works, it’s really fascinating to see how he pulls in ideas from biology and sometimes religion and engineering pulls them together and makes some sort of point that otherwise, the idea just seems random but when he brings them together, it just is beautiful.
Jack: I’m trying to think what is another great resource.
Louis: Let’s make it your product. You said that the countdown isn’t the only feature that you have in Deadline Funnel. What else does it do?
Jack: At its core, what it’s designed to do is it’s designed to give marketers the ability to ethically automate a deadline in their promotion, so you can make more money and also get that feedback after the deadline passes.
What our system does is it will synchronize with your email software. It will also synchronize if you’re using chatbots, we synchronize with many chat and chat fuel, so that you can run these automated promotions where when your technology says today is the deadline, it is in fact the deadline. Again, going back to telling the truth.
That’s, at its core, what our system does, but in addition to having the countdown timers, you have the ability to do a lot of other cool things, such as the ability to have personalized on your page, the person’s exact deadline date and time. Even if you don’t want to show the countdown, you can say doors close 11:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, August 5th. That is personalize to them. You have the ability to personalize it right in the email as well.
Also, one of the things we didn’t get a chance to talk about this, but for folks who are using urgency, I feel like there’s a right time to use it. When someone first signs up for your email list, if they’re going to check out your special offer page, if this is their first contact with you, personally I feel that showing a countdown and talking about deadline is the wrong message at the wrong time. It’s not the right time to do that.
Usually around the last 72 hours or last 48 hours, where in your followup marketing, where you should be talking about the deadline approaching, that’s when you would want that to show up.
What our software gives you the ability to do is to hide all of that urgency based stuff, hide the countdown until right before your deadline, so for the people who are procrastinating, they will see the countdown.
They will see what their deadline is on that page, and if they wait too long, they won’t be able to take action. For everyone who is the type of person that sees the benefit, sees the value and wants to take action right away, they’re not turned off by seeing a five-day countdown sitting in front of their face on the page.
Our software does all that and it works with lots of different pieces of the marketing stack. If you’re using say Lead Pages or Unbounce for your opt-in pages, you’re using WordPress for some of your sales pages and you’re using, I don’t know, SamCard or something like that for your checkout pages or whatever it is that you’re using, you can have it work across all of those different pages.
That’s really what it’s designed to do. It’s designed to keep you ethical and honest, while at the same time automating something that has been proven to work and proven to get people who are interested to go from procrastination mode to taking action, so that’s what it does.
Louis: Jack, thanks so much for spending the time to answer all my questions. I wish I could have asked you more about your entrepreneurial background. I usually have a very interesting question I ask every single entrepreneur but I think that I’m gonna have to pass because it’s been almost an hour that we are talking together. Jack, once again, thank you so much for your time.
Jack: Thank you. I appreciate it, Louis.
Scarcity and urgency are powerful persuasion triggers, but are they ethical?
We’ve all seen companies misuse urgency with fake limited time offers. They sell “live” webinar replays with only 20 seats left or slap a countdown timer on their sales page that resets when it hits zero.
How can we use urgency in sales funnels without being sleazy? In episode 72, Jack Born joins the podcast to discuss the misconceptions of deadlines, marketing automation, and more.
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So you want to learn how to start a marketing agency? You dream of a new challenge. You’re ready to build a business and a team you look forward to working with each day.
I get it. I was in your shoes not too long ago. In 2015, I started my consulting business because I was fed up with bad marketing and all of the noise online. My goal was to build a no-BS approach to marketing.
Did it go perfectly? Not exactly. But I gained a lot from my experience, and I wanted to share some of the lessons I learned along the way to my podcast listeners.
For starters, most marketing agencies are BAD.
Can this be true?
Unfortunately, there are too many sleazy marketers out there. So I brought David Baker on the show to share his thoughts on why this is and provide a strategy for how to start a remarkable marketing agency from scratch.
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You want your website to rank high on Google, right?
You’re in a constant battle to bring in organic traffic and provide a phenomenal user experience. It might even feel like you have to abandon a beautiful design in order to optimize your website for higher conversions or search engine results.
In episode 71, I teamed up with SEO and conversion expert Nick Eubanks to bust these familiar myths. Nick shares his knowledge on how to use SEO techniques to design a conversion-focused website.
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Why should companies and marketers care about brand positioning?
Positioning is one of those “marketing buzzwords” that gets tossed around a lot. But if you dig into what the term really means, it’s about making your company occupy a distinct place in people’s minds.
My guest in episode 70 is Ulli Appelbaum. He’s lead the strategy departments for some of the world’s biggest marketing agencies over the last 20 years and has created a brilliant method for determining your positioning: Positioning-Roulette.
They’re a series of 26 distinct flashcards, and Ulli generously shares every single one inside this episode.
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What motivates customers to buy?
Conventional marketing techniques get it backward. These outdated methods focus on the product first, not the human buying it. They use data to justify the need for a product, like analyzing the demographics of a target market.
But we really buy products and services to help us solve problems in our lives. This is where the Jobs to be Done framework comes in.
Alan Klement joins the podcast to explain the process behind Jobs to be Done and how we can use it to create a better business.
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Why are so many marketers bad at marketing themselves?
This episode of the podcast tackles an issue most entrepreneurs face at some point: the art of self-promotion. When it comes to marketing ourselves we get uncomfortable. Nobody wants to be another asshole selling our products or services online.
That’s why when I came across Margo Aaron’s website, I knew I had to get her on the podcast. She’s a copywriter who fell into marketing by accident after beginning her career in psychological research.
If you’ve ever felt guilty about marketing, not giving your hustle enough time, or self-promotion--I think you’re going to gain a lot from this interview.
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Most companies get the customer experience all wrong—they're too busy drowning in marketing data to see the bigger picture.
In episode 67 of the podcast, author BJ Mendelson stopped by to discuss his views on why most consumer data is worthless and how marketers should take a step back to focus on the product when it comes to building a thriving brand.
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Most marketers focus on lead generation but it is enough?
There's another step in your marketing system that comes first: demand generation.
While lead generation is a system focused on collecting contact information from potential customers, demand generation is about building brand awareness and creating demand for your products or services.
I asked lead generation expert Jeanne Hopkins to join the show and share her process on setting up a marketing campaign that generates demand and acquires customers.
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Most marketers focus on lead generation but it is enough? There’s another step in your marketing system that comes first: demand generation. While lead generation is a system focused on collecting contact information from potential customers, demand generation is about building brand awareness and creating demand for your products or services.
I asked lead generation expert Jeanne Hopkins to join the show and share her process of setting up a marketing campaign that generates demand and acquires customers.
***
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Why is it so damn tough to design a fulfilling career? How do you get the job you want and earn enough money to stop worrying about the next paycheck? This week we're joined by Jennifer Dzuira. She's the founder of GetBullish.com and the annual Bullish conference, where she dishes out advice on feminism and careers. We explored the steps toward developing your career path in the corporate world and navigating the road to entrepreneurship. If you've ever struggled to discover what job is right for you, take note of this one.
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Want to spend less time on content creation?
I know the feeling. Producing high-quality content isn’t easy work. But according to content marketing expert Brittany Berger, there’s a better way to make the most of your marketing: content repurposing.
Repurposing content doesn’t mean recycling or reusing old ideas. It’s about reinventing your best content to expand your reach to a new audience. Brittany joins us on this episode to explain her approach to content marketing and share the solid framework she built for repurposing.
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Why is it so damn tough to start a new career you love? How do you get the job you want and earn enough money to stop worrying about the next paycheck?
This week we’re joined by Jennifer Dzuira. She’s the founder of GetBullish.com and the annual Bullish conference, where she dishes out advice on feminism and careers.
We explored the steps toward developing your career path in the corporate world and navigating the road to entrepreneurship. If you’ve ever struggled to discover what job is right for you, take note of this one.
***
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When it comes to your strategy, nothing is more important than market research.
My guest today is Mark Ritson. He’s a marketing expert, consultant, and writer for Marketing Week. Mark sat down with me to share his principles for developing a marketing strategy and how to execute market research.
Mark dug into several fascinating tactics that I’d never heard before this interview. I know you’re going to gain a ton of value from this episode.
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Is there an honest way to approach growth hacking?
Today we tackle how to jumpstart a guilt-free marketing team with growth expert Ferdinand Goetzen. We spoke about the role of growth in authentic marketing teams and where you can go to find the ideal person for the position.
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Marketers have become obsessed with conversion optimization over the last few years. We're trying to squeeze conversions out of each part of our website.
But are we forgetting there's another human involved on the other side of the screen?
We tackle that topic in today's episode with Josh Pigford, the founder of Baremetrics, a metrics and focusing tool for startups.
Josh shared with us his 3-step plan for starting a new business, including how to validate your business idea, where to find your first customers, and cold emailing in the marketing industry.
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How to validate your business idea, the right way? Marketers have become obsessed with conversion optimization over the last few years. We’re trying to squeeze conversions out of each part of our website. But are we forgetting there’s another human involved on the other side of the screen? We tackle that topic in today’s episode with Josh Pigford, the founder of Baremetrics, a metrics and focusing tool for startups.
Josh shared with us his 3-step plan for starting a new business, including how to validate your business idea, where to find your first customers, and cold emailing in the marketing industry.
***
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Businesses try to squeeze every lead through the funnel, get you hooked on their products, and produce garbage content to capture your interest. Don’t feed the bears! And by that, we mean, as consumers, don’t give away your email address. And don’t pollute the Internet with unoriginal content. Today, I’m talking to Alexandra Samuel, a freelance writer, research, speaker, and author of Work Smarter with Social Media. She helps companies cope with the transition to a digital world. Break through the noise, and get people’s attention using the Internet.
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Are you overwhelmed by a sea of possibilities for your marketing? Have you read 1-Page Marketing Plan by Allan Dib? If you haven’t, you should. Today, I’m talking to Allan, a serial entrepreneur, technology freak, and rebellious marketer who believes marketers should stop the “Shiny Object” syndrome and sleazy tactics - not putting lipstick on a pig!
How often do you look at Facebook? Facebook is the largest media company in the world, and it has generated more than $27 billion in revenue. In this episode, you will learn long-term principles to create effective Facebook ads. Today, I’m talking to Karola Karlson, a freelance performance marketing manager specializing in Facebook advertising.
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Are brands dead due to the Internet and direct accessibility to companies? Today, I’m talking to Bernie Schroeder about why you (especially millennials) should care about branding. Bernie is a senior marketing and brand expert working at San Diego State University to help students start their own companies. Also, he is the author of Brands and Bullshit.
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For start-up marketing, how do you get something off the ground without outside funding? What’s required to launch a product? Marketers and developers will learn a lot today! In this episode, I’m talking to Rob Walling, a Web developer, podcaster, entrepreneur, and conference co-host about stairstepping your way up when it comes to bootstrapping.
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Surprisingly, companies still need to be convinced to focus on their customers before making money. Treating customers badly is no longer an option. In this episode, learn how to earn your customers’ love and admiration, as well as grow your business. Today, I’m talking to Jeanne Bliss, president of Customer Bliss. Jeanne describes how companies focus on sales goals, internal KPIs, and and other metrics, and tend to forget about their customers - who actually drive all of those metrics.
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Get more reach, visibility, credibility, trust, and SEO with digital PR - a way to build relationships with content writers and journalists to get them to mention you and your business. Today, I’m talking to Lexi Mills, a digital PR expert and Influence professional.
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Most companies believe they are customer centric, but many don’t know what that means and involves. So, they don’t truly practice it. Today I’m talking to Georgiana (Gia) Laudi, who has been developing strategies and launching campaigns for companies of all shapes and sizes for the past 15 years. She will help us build a basic strategy based on customers by mapping out their customer journey. Gia is a SaaS Marketing and Customer Experience Strategist, Startup Mentor, and former Vice President of Marketing for Unbounce. She left Unbounce to start A Better CX (a better customer experience). Also, she runs Forget the Funnel with previous Everyone Hates Marketers guest, Claire Suellentrop. Forget the Funnel is an online workshop series that helps early-stage SaaS marketers to become respected leaders.
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Today I’m talking to Momoko Price, a commercial copywriter who works for giants (AT&T and Base CRM) and startups (Respondly, which was acquired by Buffer). Copywriting is important and one of the biggest parts of marketing. Naming your value proposition is one thing in copywriting that is critical. It sends a strong message that convinces people about the value you can provide them.
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This week I’m talking to Gavin Duff, Head of Digital Performance for the Irish-based digital agency, Friday. The world of search engine optimization (SEO) is full of shady people and practices and it’s much more difficult than you might think to actually rank well on Google. Today Gavin will teach us three main things: how to uncover shady SEO practices; how to spot shady SEO practitioners and avoid them; and what to do if you’ve been burned by one. With nearly 15 years of digital experience working for companies such as Dannon, Heineken, Mazda, Dominos Pizza, AXA Insurance, Amazon, and many more, he is a great person to learn from.
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My guest this episode is Adele Revella, CEO of the Buyer Persona Institute, speaker and author of a top five business book by Fortune magazine of 2015, Buyer Personas: How to Gain Insight into Your Customer’s Expectations, Align your Marketing Strategies, and Win More Business. Adele is the perfect person with whom to discuss relating to customers and creating meaningful buyer personas. Listen in for our insightful conversation and Adele’s step-by-step methodology to better understand your customers and improve your sales.
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Today I’m talking to Noah Kagan, a successful entrepreneur and founder of two multi-million dollar businesses including AppSumo, Sumo and Briefcase. Noah is someone who does marketing all day long, but rarely calls it marketing. He has a successful blog, podcast, YouTube channel, and over 700,000 subscribers on his email list. He has worked for Intel, Facebook and Mean.com before striking out on his own. Listen in as Noah takes us through how he would launch a business with $1000 anonymously and his thoughts on marketing today.
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My guest this episode is Cindy Gallop, a former advertiser who has worked for brands such as Coca-Cola, Ray-Ban and Polaroid. In 2009 she launched makelovenotporn.tv to make real world sex socially acceptable and shareable. If you are dissatisfied with your marketing 9-5 job, or want to transform your business, this is the episode for you. Listen in to learn how to “blue-sky” your dreams and take your work to the next level.
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Today I’m talking to Joanna Wiebe, Co-Founder and Head of Growth for Airstory.co and the co-founder of CopyHackers.com. She is a master conversion copywriter who has worked with companies like Wistia, Buffer, Crazy Egg, Shopify, InVision and many more. If you’ve ever struggled to write copy for your landing page, Joanna is here to help you start writing and make sure people care about what you write. Listen in for a detailed step-by-step guide to better customer research, more authentic writing and increased conversions for your business.
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My guest this episode is master copywriter and email marketer André Chaperon. André will teach us his system to send emails that people are actually interested in, gain their trust, and raise email open rates. He has tips to improve your email marketing by segmenting people the right way, removing the wrong people from your list, and using autoresponders to send the right email at the right time. André owns Tinylittlebusinesses.com, and also has a course called AutoResponder Madness. Listen in to this value filled episode with practical ideas and tools you can use to become a better email marketer immediately.
Topics Discussed in this Episode:
Resources:
“I’m all about relevancy.” - André Chaperon
“People don’t get ideas by staring at a computer screen trying to think of an idea, ideas come from when you’re reading something and it sparks and idea you can connect to something else. The more that your broaden your domain knowledge about stuff in general, that’s how you will get your ideas.” - André Chaperon
“Be willing to connect ideas.” - André Chaperon
“The more you write, the more you read, the better your going to get.” - André Chaperon
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In this episode we are challenging the current model of online advertising and making a case for the traditional methods advertising. Bob Hoffman is my guest, author of the popular blog The Ad Contrarian and has been named one of the most influential advertising bloggers by Business Insider. He’s been the CEO of two independent agencies and has worked with major brands such as McDonalds, PepsiCo, Bank of America, Toyota, AT&T and many more. Today he will explain why digital marketing is broken, what you need to know as a marketer today and why traditional marketing is not dead yet.
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My guest this episode is Adam Greco, a web analytics expert who has worked for companies such as Omniture and Salesforce. Most people are easily overwhelmed with data analytics and don’t know where to start. Many organizations also function in a vacuum with each department using their own data and not sharing their findings across the team. As users we don’t want reports, we want insights to help make decisions.
This episode we’re going to talk about how to turn that data into insights you can actually use, how to spot problems on your website and sales funnel, how to score your leads, and how to know what to focus on. Adam is a prominent member of the web analytics community and he gives us a practical guide to analytics you can start implementing in your business or project right away.
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This week we have another special edition episode of Everyone Hates Marketers. I am glad to share my future plans for the podcast including guests to be interviewed next and those already recorded that will be published soon. We’re also going to talk about what will change going forward, what won’t, and upcoming topics you will hear about. I am working on improving some aspects of this project and continue to appreciate all the feedback I receive. Don’t forget to check out our last episode for a review of how we did in 2017.
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Today’s episode is a special edition of Everyone Hates Marketers where I will share behind the scenes knowledge such as the story behind the podcast, never before shared listener stats, and go through the main lessons I’ve learned since starting the show. I’ll also make special mention to those who have reached out to me and given feedback to help improve the podcast along the way.
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This episode I’m talking to Dan McGaw, former Head of Marketing at Kissmetrics behavioral analytics solution company. Dan is now the CMO of Effin Amazing, an analytics and growth consultancy company. Dan is an analytics expert and has consulted for companies such as Wistia, Contactually, CrowdRise, and many more.
If you are overwhelmed by the amount of data you need to track and don’t know where to start, then this episode is for you. Listen in as Dan walks us through a step-by-step actionable methodology on how to track the right metrics and KPIs for new and existing businesses.
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My guest today is David Baker, author of The Business of Expertise and speaker, who has worked with 750+ firms and in house departments and is an expert on our topic today. David will share with us a practical, no bullshit guide to starting a marketing agency and wisely choosing your target market. He brings so many different ideas and approaches to this discussion that you will not want to miss it and his remarkable advice.
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Today I’m joined by my guest Nichole Elizabeth DeMeré, an esteemed SaaS consultant, customer service evangelist, writer and community moderator. Her work has been featured in leading industry media such as Hubspot, Moz, CopyHackers, Forbes, Canva and more.
Nichole is going to walk us through the four things you need to do before you can start marketing your startup or new business. Founders tend to skip the basics of marketing foundations, and this crucial step can make or break your business. Listen in for Nichole’s four most important pre-marketing initiatives that you need to know for your startup or to refresh the marketing of an existing business.
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My guest today is Kai Davis, founder of Double Your Ecommerce and Double Your Audience, host of the Make Money Online and Get More Clients podcasts, and author of The Outreach Blueprint and Podcast Outreach. In this episode Kai will teach you the importance to building relationships with people and the 7 steps to launching your first marketing outreach campaign. Marketing outreach is one of the most important marketing skills today, so listen in to learn the best ways to approach it as well as Kai’s recommended resources and software tools.
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This episode is a special Facebook Live interview with Oli Gardner, international marketing speaker and Co-Founder of Unbounce landing page software. Today we are talking about marketing bullshit and how to fight it together. Oli shares his experiences growing Unbounce, how he measures marketing success and his advice to become a better marketer and drive more sales without compromising your values.
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My guest today is Susan Weinschenk, behavioral scientist, author, speaker, consultant and mentor. She is an expert in understanding, predicting and directing human behavior. Her books include How to Get People to Do Stuff, 100 Things Every Designer Needs to Know About People, 100 Things Every Presenter Needs to Know About People, and Neuro Web Design. In this episode we’re going to talk about what motivates people in this complex modern world, and how we can use behavioral science to become better marketers. Susan will explain five drivers of human behavior backed by scientific studies and what you should know about them in order to get people to do what you want.
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This episode is all about website personalization: what it is, how it works, and how to get it started in your business today. My guest to discuss this and and his new website personalization tool is Brennan Dunn of Double Your Freelancing and RightMessage. Brennan explains the benefit of a personalized approach and shares specific ideas you can implement in any size business to get results.
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My guest today is Keith Perhac, of DevelopYourMarketing.com and Segmetrics. Keith is a developer and marketer, and he is here to teach you how to calculate the value of your leads over the long-term. Focusing on lead value over time will enable you to know what is working and generating revenue, and what is not. Listen in as Keith shares his step-by-step guide to tracking lead value and tailoring your marketing to the most valuable leads.
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On today’s episode I’m joined by my guest Claire Suellentrop, a messaging and conversion expert at Loveyourcustomers.co. Claire is also a published author and the former Director of Marketing for Calendly. In this episode she will introduce us to the “Jobs to be done” methodology that is replacing the old method of creating customer personas. Listen in for a step-by-step practical guide on this method, why you should be using it, and how you can implement it in your business.
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My guest today is Dave Gerhardt, Director of Marketing at Drift, a conversation-driven marketing and sales platform that works as a virtual assistant for your website. Dave joined Drift as their first marketer two years ago, and he’s also the cohost of the podcast Seeking Wisdom with Drift CEO David Cancel. Dave is a true no-nonsense marketer, and on today’s episode you’re going to learn how to actually connect with people in your marketing and drive sales for your company.
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On this episode I’m talking to Yam Regev, CMO and Co-Founder of Zest.is, a place where marketers can discover quality peer-reviewed content. Yam is based in Israel and has 10 years experience in marketing, previously serving as CMO of Webydo web design platform. Today you’re going to learn how to overcome information overload as a marketer. Join us as we navigate the abundance of content available online, and listen in for Yam’s solutions to find valuable content and avoid the fear of missing out.
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My guest today is Shayla Price, a content and email marketing consultant for SaaS businesses. She has worked with companies such as Leadpages, Agorapulse, Hostgator.com, Kissmetrics, Shopify Plus and more. She has published many articles in her work and is also involved with aspiring women in the SaaS marketing community to help them excel. In this episode you’re going to learn why education and not hardcore sales is the best way to do content marketing, especially in SaaS. Listen in as Shayla explains the best place to do customer research, how to create the right kind of content to education people, and how to check the results and bring your business to the next level.
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This episode I’m talking to Liston Witherill, conversion optimization and copywriting expert and CEO of Good Funnel. He believes that marketing is about helping customers make informed decisions in their buying process, and he wants to teach every business how to sell more effectively. Listen in as Liston walks us through a step-by-step process of customer research and how to use it to understand what your customer really wants.
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My guest today is Sean D’Souza, author of The Brain Audit and the owner of Psychotactics.com. He’s a cartoonist and a marketer with more than 15 years experience in the field and makes a point to take a three month vacation every year. In this episode you’re going to learn how to convince people to buy without being pushy using Sean’s methodology called The Brain Audit. It works for all marketing and business types because it uses first principal thinking instead of relying on best practices that come and go. Listen in to learn this step by step process you can apply in your daily work starting today.
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Today’s episode is all about the future of Google in the long-term and the consequences for users and marketers worldwide. My guest is Barry Adams, an SEO Consultant at Polemic Digital, co-chief editor at State of Digital and public speaker at conferences such as Learn Inbound and PubCon. Listen to our conversation about the future of internet, the tough questions that marketers will face, and what you should do about it.
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My guest this episode is Talia Wolf, Founder and Conversion Consultant at GetUplift.co. Talia is an expert speaker on the topic of emotional thinking and customer driven conversion optimization. If you are struggling to connect with customers online and generate sales, this episode is for you. Listen in to learn Talia’s step-by-step methodology of customer research and emotional targeting that you can implement in your business today to connect with your audience and increase sales and conversions.
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This week we are talking about competitive analysis and my guest is Cassandra Schwartz, Senior Product Marketing Manager for Rival IQ, a social media marketing analytics tool. If you want to stand out from the crowd, you should be conducting social media competitive analysis to identify gaps in your competitor’s offerings and marketing strategy.
Cassandra has 8 years of marketing experience working with charities and tech companies such as Microsoft and Frontdesk, and she will walk us through the steps of conducting a social media competitive analysis and explain the value and opportunities that can be found in this process.
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SaaS companies today tend to focus more on customer acquisition and less on customer retention and monetization. My guest this week is Patrick Campbell, CEO of Price Intelligently, a price optimization software agency that helps SaaS businesses adopt a strong pricing strategy. They also offer a free subscription analytics tool called ProfitWell. In this episode we will talk about why retaining customers is actually more profitable than obtaining new ones, and go through a detailed step by step process to help you get the most out of your current customers with clever research and tactics. Patrick gives us a lot to learn about today so don’t miss out and listen in.
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My guest today is marketer Josh Fechter, formerly of Autopilot marketing automation tool, who has recently created his own agency Badass Marketers and Founders. He is also an entrepreneur who has learned many lessons from his previous startup ventures. I found Josh on his agency’s Facebook Group and was blown away by the amount of free information he shared, including google drive folders full of google docs with his tactics, strategies and thoughts. If you are looking for new and innovative marketing ideas to test and grow your business, this episode is for you.
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My guest this episode is Sujan Patel, a brilliant marketer with many years of internet marketing experience who has strategized for Fortune 500 companies such as Salesforce, Mint, Intuit and more. He is also an entrepreneur with his own marketing agency, Web Profits, and multiple Saas businesses such as Mailshake, Quuu and Pick. Listen in to our discussion about content promotion, why it is the biggest point of failure for marketers today, and how you can do it better.
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This week I’m talking to Justin Jackson, Canadian entrepreneur, speaker, Saas growth and marketing advisor, and author of Marketing for Developers and Jolt!. This episode is a great listen for marketers and developers who aren’t marketers themselves but want to launch a product or service. Justin will share his methodology for customer research, picking the right marketing, and ultimately creating a great product and tons of sales.
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My guest this episode is Philip Morgan, an expert consultant in positioning, and he is here to help you improve your company’s messaging step-by-step. He specializes in positioning for tech companies and literally wrote the book on this topic, The Positioning Manual for Technical Firms. Listen in as he explains positioning strategy and techniques useful for all digital marketers and shares his personal journey along the way.
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This week’s episode was a special challenge to my guest, the famous marketer, author and entrepreneur Seth Godin. I asked him to come up with a business idea on the fly, and walk us through how he would launch an online business with $1000 and market it to success within 3 months. Join us as he shares his wisdom and marketing secrets to launching a successful business from the ground up.
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This week I’m talking to Conner Keppel about how long-term marketing can help you generate more profits than short-term marketing. Conner is the Head of Marketing for Phorest, salon software that helps salons grow their businesses. On today’s episode he discusses his own experiences in marketing startups and SaaS businesses, and he shares some excellent resources. Join us as we get into the the benefits of long-term marketing, specialization and how it can be applied to your business.
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My guest today is Michael Troiano, a Harvard Business School graduate and former Chief Marketing Office of Actifio, a global enterprise data-as-a-service provider. He is currently venture capitalist based in Boston at G20 Ventures, and has nearly 25 years of executive leadership experience, working with name brand companies such as PepsiCo, Jiffylube, Ragu and Hewlett-Packard.
In this episode we touch on his personal story and discuss why marketers should focus on marketing storytelling instead of optimization. We’re also going to go over a detailed step-by-step methodology on creating a story that people will actually connect with. Listen in as he shares valuable advice to new marketers, such as why they need to focus on finding a good boss instead of a good business.
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Today I’m talking to Dan Kaplan, a former magazine journalist turned product marketer who is now a marketing consultant with Exponents in Silicon Valley. Dan is fighting for marketing to be great again, for the first time. He has seen many tech startups fail due to weak marketing foundations. Listen in to our very interesting chat about what companies need to do instead in order to succeed.
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Using lean marketing principles can help you to become a more productive digital marketer. In this episode, I’m talking to Monica Georgieff, Marketing Director of Kanbanize, a lean management platform that combines principles of Lean and Kanban. It is like Trello on steroids with the addition of portfolio management, flow analytics, and automated business rules.
We discuss how to apply Kanban to marketing and make the entire process more lean and efficient. Monica shares highly practical steps to applying the principles, and she shares a mind-blowing marketing metric that most marketers aren’t using. This is a fun and interesting episode that will help you take your marketing to the next level.
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Helping to solve people's most painful problems is the marketer's job. In this episode, Dan Levy and I are describing how to to go about it using content marketing. Dan Levy is the Content Director of Unbounce, a software product that allows us to build landing pages fast with no coding required.
We are talking about content marketing and Dan’s love-hate relationship. We are also going to discuss the difference between copy and content and how to come up with content ideas that people will actually like. This is a topic that I find very interesting. Then we are going to go through a step by step run through of how to come up with blog posts from start to finish. Dan also shares the best advice that he learned from his mentor.
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What do TOFU, MOFU & BOFU stand for in marketing? It helps digital marketers to serve the right content to the right person at the right time using the sales funnel. Today, I am interviewing Greg Elfrink, Content Marketing Manager for Empire Flippers a marketplace to buy or sell websites. Today, we discuss creating customer avatars. Avatars enable us to better understand and serve our customers. Greg has an interesting background. He used to work on oil rigs in Alaska while freelancing on the side. Sometimes he would end up working 100 hours in one week. With the long hours, he was getting burned out. Greg is much happier now that he is part of the Empire Flippers team. We also discuss content length and the value of reading fiction to improve marketing.
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How to sell more? By earning the awareness, trust, and respect of people who could buy from you. This is, in essence, the core of Rand Fiskin's inbound marketing philosophy. In this episode, Rand Fishkin shares his step-by-step guide to selling online using inbound marketing.
Rand Fishkin is the Co-Founder and ExCEO of Moz. Rand Fishkin is one of the best and most transparent marketers. During this hour we talk about the type of marketer that Donald Trump is and what Rand would do if he only had $100 and 6 months to generate $1000 in income. Rand also tells a personal MOZ story that applies to managing people. Along with reasons why bad marketing stands out, and how to win your customer’s trust.
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Trust-based marketing eats branding for breakfast, any day of the week according to Jonathan Salem Baskin, Founder of Arcadia Lab, which helps businesses to communicate about innovation. Jonathan has 30 years of marketing experience in major global brands and is a currently a Forbes contributor. Jonathan firmly believes that brands are dead - and he offers a better alternative. Listen in as he challenges the conventional truths in marketing and provides a new perspective for the future of business.
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How did Hubstaff, a remote team management software business, managed to grow from 0 to over 4,500 customers? Dave Nevogt, Founder and CEO of Hubstaff, shares how he got Hubstaff started, including missteps along the way, and transparency in how the business is running today. Join us for a great conversation about acquiring and understanding your customers in order to grow sales and succeed in your business.
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On today’s podcast episode, I’m talking to Tom Hunt, entrepreneur and founder of Sneez, a social selling software tool. He believes that email newsletters should die and offers an alternative...
In this episode, Tom shares his experiences leaving his well-paid corporate job, entering the digital marketing world, and building his businesses. Listen in for his great advice to new marketers on improving your craft and making more sales.
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My guest today is Blake Morgan, a Customer Experience Consultant and author of More is More. Blake teaches brands to create “Knock Your Socks Off” customer experiences.
Join us as we learn the best ways to improve your customer’s experience with your brand and how you can provide more value in your marketing.
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Want to become a better, more authentic copywriter? On today’s episode I’m talking to Dave Schneider, Founder of Ninja Outreach, a software tool to get in touch with influencers and bloggers. He’s studied applied mathematics at Harvard, travelled the world and now manages a team remotely to run his company.
Listen in for Dave’s top recommended resources to learn how to become a better copywriter and improve your marketing.
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Do you want more online visitors and more leads? Justin McGill describes in this episode 3 content marketing techniques to help you achieve this result. Justin McGill is the Founder of LeadFuze, an online service to help businesses to generate more leads online. He’s also the host of the podcast Zero to Scale, where he and his co-host discuss their journey building profitable businesses. Listen in as Justin shares his experiences as an entrepreneur and specific marketing techniques he’s used to grow his business.
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Today I’m talking to Violeta Nedkova, from VioletaNedkova.com and The Creative Rebel Academy. She's a creative rebel: she does things in her own way, instead of following what everybody else says. She can help you to stand out from the crowd as a digital marketer.
Listen in as we talk about being yourself and reconnecting to your core value in order to improve your business and your marketing.
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My guest today is John Doherty from GetCredo.com, a marketplace to find the best SEO experts. John is very transparent in his business and in today’s episode he candidly shares his background in marketing and journey launching Credo. Do you want to know how to market your business online? Then listen in as we discuss what makes a good marketing strategy and specific tactics for using SEO in your business.
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Today I’m talking to David Darmanin, CEO of Hotjar, an all-in-one analytics and feedback tool for your website. Hotjar is a six-product suite I personally use in my own business and recommend to others. David’s background as an entrepreneur and conversion rate expert with a leading agency in the field gives him a lot to share with us on what works and what doesn’t. He believes that most marketing best practices are pure bull and that you should avoid them at all costs.
But more importantly, he's never afraid to say things as they are... You have been warned.
Listen in to our discussion and some great advice on how to improve your website and marketing.
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My guest today is Laura Roeder, CEO of MeetEdgar.com, a social media tool that helps you reshare older content your audience may have missed the first time. Laura is a former social media consultant who built her audience and knowledge to bootstrap and build the very successful MeetEdgar.com.
Listen to Laura’s advice on marketing approach, her recommended resources and simple strategies to be a better social media marketer.
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On today’s episode I’m talking to David Heinemeier Hansson, co-founder of Basecamp project management software and creator of Ruby on Rails. He is well-known as a talented developer, but I also think he is one of the best no-bullshit digital marketers out there today.
He is a Denmark native and has learned from business practices in both Denmark and the US.
Join us as David shares his path in business and his insights into the world of marketing.
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