Equiosity

Latest Episodes:

Episode 142 Control And Counter - Control May 14, 2021

Show notes

I know many of us head to our horses to get away from the news, but sometimes the news intrudes and our horses can help us make sense of what we see in the headlines. Dominique turned both to her horses and to Murray Sidman’s book, “Coercion and It’s Fallout” to bring some clarity to events that were occurring in Montreal. The metaphors work in both directions. Our horses can help us understand these larger events. And the “real world” can provide insights that bring clarity to the puzzles our horses present. In this case we are looking at control and counter-control.

Episode 141 Constructional Versus Pathological: Which Mindset Ripples Through Your Training? May 04, 2021

Show notes

We’ve talked a lot about constructional training in these podcasts. This week we’re exploring two related topics. The first asks how do you look at the world? Are you a glass half empty sort of person where you get mired down in the problem? Or is the glass half full where you have a clear vision of what you want and you go about learning how to get there? You could be using a positive reinforcement procedure to try and stop an unwanted behavior. Or you could be using what can look like a very similar procedure to teach your learner a set of desired behaviors. It can sound like a difference that makes no difference, but when the root is different so too is the plant that grows from it. So in this podcast we’re looking at constructional training. My interest is not just how does this effect the training strategies we use with our horses, but also what is the ripple effect into the rest of our lives? Our horses can teach us so much that carries over into our interactions with other people.

Episode 140: Emotions And Emotional Behavior Apr 28, 2021

Show notes

When Dominique and I get together to record a podcast we usually don’t have a subject mapped out in advance. These are truly conversations, not planned lectures. When we connected via zoom, Dominique said she had something she wanted to talk about, but she wasn’t going to tell me in advance what it was. That always makes for the best conversation. Dominique has been wanting to talk about emotions and emotional behavior for a long time. Now finally she was bringing this “cat” out of the bag. It is a fascinating subject. Looking at emotions through the lens of behavior analysis, prompts many changes in our thinking - and our training.

Episode 139: Kyle Hetzel Pt 3: Farriers, Vets, Giving Agency, Saying No, Saying Yes! Apr 08, 2021

Show notes

This is part 3 of our conversation with Kyle Hetzel. Kyle is a zoo keeper. He used to work with big cats, sea lions, giraffes, wolves and other wild animals. But he is currently working in the children’s zoo section of a large west coast zoo. Kyle wants to bring what he has been learning from the wild animals to the handling of domestic animals. In Part 1 Kyle introduced us to some of the exotic animals who were his early teachers. In Part 2 we shifted the conversation to barnyard animals - goats, mini horses and a very large steer named slider. As we continue on with the conversation, the focus is very much on cooperative care. It’s easy to get stuck in a training rut. Kyle’s work with the zoo animals helps us all to be more creative in our training plans. And he shares with us an effective team training approach that includes the farrier and veterinarian.

Episode 138: Kyle Hetzel Pt 2: Cows CAN Stand On Three Feet Apr 01, 2021

Show notes

I was tempted to call this episode: “Just Because People Tell You Something Can’t Be Done, Doesn’t Mean It Can’t Be Done”. But I thought that might be a little long so I called it instead: “Cow CAN Stand on Three Feet.” This is part 2 of our conversation with Kyle Hetzel. Kyle is a zoo keeper. In this episode he shares his experiences working with barnyard animals. Kyle started out working with big cats, sea lions, giraffes, wolves and other wild animals. But he is currently working in the children’s zoo section of a large west coast zoo. Kyle wants to bring what he has been learning from the wild animals to the handling of domestic animals. I met Kyle through my clinics and Science Camp. Kyle shared video of the work he’s been doing with the barnyard animals in the children’s zoo. It was so inspiring. There’s so much “just get it done” handling with horses and other hoofed animals. To see Kyle training the goats and horses under his care for voluntary medical procedures was inspiring. It’s good training. It’s caring training. There’s a lot here that needs to be shared, so that’s what we’re doing in this podcast. In this episode we talk about cooperative care in handling horses and other barnyard animals. What does cooperative care really mean? Kyle describes in detail the control his animals have throughout the training sessions. Learn about foot care for a steer named Slider, plus the goats, even the giraffes. I ask the question - how do you trim the hind feet of a giraffe? You can find out in this fascinating conversation with Kyle.

Episode 137: Kyle Hetzel Part 1: Wolves, Giraffes, Sea Lions - What Is The Connection To Horses? Mar 25, 2021

Show notes

There are many paths that bring us to horses. Kyle Hetzel has taken one of the more unusual ones. Kyle is a zoo keeper. He has worked with big cats, wolves, marine mammals, giraffes, but these days he is working with domestic animals in the children’s zoo section of a large west coast zoo. Working with wild animals has taught Kyle the importance of team work and cooperative care. He wants to bring what he has been learning from the wild animals to the handling of domestic animals. In part one Kyle introduces us to the animals who have been his teachers. There’s Wyatt the wolf pup who developed cataracts and needed eye drops. There’s Maggie the sea lion. At 33 she was the oldest sea lion in a US zoo. She was rescued from a facility where she had had minimal handling. She now needed specialized care to see her comfortably through her geriatric years. And Rosie a giraffe who was injured as a young animal, who very much made her preferences known to the handlers involved in her on-going rehab. And Kie, another sea lion who taught Kyle to listen carefully to the animals in his care. In this episode Kyle introduces us to his animal teachers and shares some of the important lessons they taught him.

Episode 136: Lisa Clifton Bumpass Pt 3: Happy Alligator Toes Mar 19, 2021

Show notes

There were so many titles I could have given this episode. Another good one would have been: “We Haven’t Known What We’ve Known”. That’s a quote from Dr. Jesús Rosales Ruiz. It refers to this huge jig saw puzzle we’ve all been working on that’s called animal training. But in the end I decided to call the episode “Happy Alligator Toes” because how often do you get to use a title like that? You’ll have to listen to the podcast to find out what it means. What would you guess? I wonder if you are anywhere close. To find out, listen to the podcast.

Episode 135: Lisa Clifton Bumpass Pt 2: Working In Training Teams Mar 03, 2021

Show notes

Science Camp was held over the weekend of Feb 19-21. Dominique and I didn’t want it to end so we invited one of the participants, Lisa Clifton Bumpass to come share an afternoon’s conversation with us. Lisa is a dog trainer turned zoo consultant. She’s been a regular attendee at the horse clinics I give in Half Moon Bay CA. What Lisa learns from the horses she takes back to the teams she works with in zoos. It is so much fun to think that the work we’re doing with horses is helping giraffes and alligators and other exotic animals to live more comfortable lives. In Part 1 of our conversation we talked about constructional training. This week we begin with the difference between extinguishing and abolishing a behavior. From there I ask Lisa to describe the team building she does in her consulting work. We got to watch a beautiful example of this at the beginning of Science Camp. One of the participants, Kyle Ketzel, works at the San Francisco zoo. He shared with us a video of one of the animals in his care. Since it’s a zoo, you might expect that it would be a video of a giraffe or an elephant, but no. The animal Kyle wanted us to see is Slider, a steer who lives in the children’s zoo. After the fall Science Camp Kyle learned he had only two weeks to prepare Slider for foot care. If the procedure couldn’t be done safely with Slider cooperating calmly throughout, he would need to be sedated. Kyle described Slider’s previous history with having his feet trimmed as a wrestling match, so Slider’s association with foot care was anything but positive. But what we saw was a relaxed animal who put his own foot up on the trimming block and who stood calmly participating in the procedure. Three people were involved in the foot trim. Kyle was at Slider’s head so he was the one in charge of reinforcing Slider. A second keeper was kneeling by Slider’s bent knee. She was helping to steady his leg, but even more than that, she was monitoring Slider’s pulse. A third person was trimming his hooves. They were all communicating with one another and with Slider. It was a beautiful example of great team work and great training. I wanted to Lisa to describe the team building work that she does so that is primarily what we talked about in this week’s episode.

Episode 134: Lisa Clifton Bumpass Pt 1: Whose Needs Are Met? Feb 26, 2021

Show notes

Science Camp was held over the weekend of Feb 19-21. What a wonderful, head spinner of an event that was! Dominique and I didn’t want it to end so we invited one of the participants, Lisa Clifton Bumpass to come share an afternoon’s conversation with us. Lisa is a dog trainer turned zoo consultant. She’s been a regular attendee at the horse clinics I give in Half Moon Bay CA. What Lisa learns from the horses she takes back to the teams she works with in zoos. It is so much fun to think that the work we’re doing with horses is helping giraffes and alligators and other exotic animals to live more comfortable lives. Our conversation with Lisa began with a discussion of constructional; training - one of the main topics of Science Camp. That developed into a consideration of whose needs are being met in a training plan. Just because we are using positive reinforcement doesn’t mean the needs of the learner are being met. The overall training goals may still revolve around meeting our needs. Or we can swing the pendulum the other way so everything is centered around meeting our learner’s needs - often at the expense of our own well being. Or we can be truly constructional and meet the needs of everyone. As always, balance is everything. Good constructional training helps us to consider what each member of a training partnership needs to get from the interaction.

Episode 133 Even More To Say About Food Delivery Feb 12, 2021

Show notes

Just when you think you’ve said all you need to say about food delivery, you discover you’ve only begun to scratch the surface. The reinforcement patterns play an important role in teaching and maintaining behavior. So when Dominique said she wanted to talk about food deliver, we were off and running into an interesting afternoon’s conversation.

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