Ending Human Trafficking

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172 – Adverse Childhood Experiences and Building Resilience May 20, 2018

Show notes

Dr. Sandra Morgan and Dave Stachowiak discuss the effects adverse childhood experiences can have on a person’s entire life. They also share tools that can be used to measure the impact these experiences can have and also the factors that influence a person’s resilience.

Key Points

Childhood experiences are predictors of future health.
People self-medicate for their anxiety, depression, and fear in different ways.
Depending on a child’s ACE score, it can be predicted that they will have a life of up to 20 years shorter.
Drug addicted parents usually love their children, but their addictions steal away the relationship with their children.
Remember the connection between prevention of adverse childhood experiences and the reduction in the risk of being sexually trafficked.

Resources

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Transcript

Dave: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. This is episode number 172, Adverse Childhood Experiences and Building Resilience.

Production Credits: [00:00:10] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave: [00:00:30] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. My name is Dave Stachowiak.

Sandie: [00:00:35] And my name is Sandie Morgan.

Dave: [00:00:38] And this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. Sandie, today we’re going to take a look at a model that came out of a study from a number of years ago and you have an assessment under my nose as well that I have a feeling I might be taking here shortly.

Sandie: [00:00:59] Well, there was a study that began with the Center for Disease Control and Kaiser. And it’s called the ACE Study, adverse childhood experience, and the concept was that we have childhood experiences that are predictors of our future health, including mental health, behavioral health, everything. And even how opportunity works in our life. And so, we want to look at this as a predictor of how we better serve the most vulnerable for becoming victims of human trafficking or how that experience actually informs how we support victims and intervene on their behalf.

Sandie: [00:01:48] And so the first thing we’re going to do is look at the actual survey tool that’s used, and it’s called an ACE quiz. I’ve used it in my classes for years, especially when I first started teaching family violence because if you understand how that child, who is involved in a situation beyond their control, how that impacts their future then you can better create strategies for prevention and early intervention.

Sandie: [00:02:18] And so I’ve printed this quiz. It’s only 10 questions, and you will have a link for you to download it. But Dave I want you to take this, while I read the questions so everybody understands the direction that we’re going with this. You take the quiz and then we’ll ask you what your score is.

Dave: [00:02:39] Ok I’m ready.

Sandie: [00:02:40] The first question, did a parent or other adult in the household often or very often swear at you, insult you, put you down, or humiliate you, or act in a way that made you afraid that you might be physically hurt? So, you answer yes or you answer no. And if it’s a yes, it’s one point. The next question, did a parent or other adult in your household often or very often push, grab, slap, or throw something at you, or ever hit you so hard that you had marks or were injured? Did an adult or person at least five years older than you touch or fondle you, or have you touch their body in a sexual way or attempt to have oral, anal, or vaginal intercourse? Answer yes or no. Number four, did you often or very often feel that no one in your family loved you, or thought you were important or special, or your family didn’t look out for each other and feel close to each other or support each other?

[00:03:43] And number five did you often or very often feel that you didn’t have enough to eat, had to wear dirty clothes, and had no one to protect you? Or your parents were too drunk or high to take care of you or take you to the doctor? Number six, was a biological parent ever lost to you through divorce, abandonment, or other reasons? Number seven, was your mother or stepmother often or very often pushed, grabbed, slapped, or had something thrown at her? Or sometimes often or very often kicked, bitten, hit with a fist, or hit with something hard, or ever repeatedly hit over at least a few minutes, or threatened with a gun or a knife? Number eight, did you live with anyone who was a problem drinker, or alcoholic, or who used street drugs? Number nine, was a household member depressed, or mentally ill, or did a household member attempt suicide? And the last question, did a household member go to prison, no or yes? So now you add up your yes answers and that is your ACE score.

Dave: [00:04:54] And my score thankfully is 0.

Sandie: [00:04:58] I give this every year, and the majority of my students in my classes are from 0 to 2. And then there are probably about 20 percent who are the four or five. And then there’s about 5 percent that are six or more. And I remember the first time a young student scored eight and we took our break and she was immediately right in front of me, “Am I going to be OK?”. And I learned that day, don’t give the resilience quiz after the break, give it before the break because there is a corresponding quiz on resilience. And so, the idea that this is a determining quiz. This is all of these bad things will happen to you is not true. When we figure out how to build resilience back in and we have to start from that perspective.

Sandie: [00:05:58] So we use the ACE quiz because it has a lot of validation. Later research...

171 – Dr. Hilary Chester and the USCCB Anti-Trafficking Program May 06, 2018

Show notes

Dr. Sandra Morgan and Dave Stachowiak talk to Dr. Hilary Chester about the work she is doing with the Catholic church to fight human trafficking, including long-term care and working with less visible victims like offshore fisherman.

Resources

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Transcript

Dave: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. This is episode number 171. Dr. Hilary Chester and the USCCB Anti Trafficking Program.

Production Credits: [00:00:12] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave: [00:00:31] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. My name is Dave Stachowiak.

Sandie: [00:00:36] And my name is Sandie Morgan.

Dave: [00:00:38] And this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. Sandie, one of the things I love about talking with you every other week is getting to meet so many wonderful advocates, and trailblazers, and folks that have so much enthusiasm for this as we do. And today we’re going to be connecting everyone else with the relationship you’ve had for a long time.

Sandie: [00:01:06] Yes, I’m really excited to welcome Dr. Hilary Chester to our show.

Dave: [00:01:11] Dr. Chester directs the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops Anti Trafficking Program. The ATP has several initiatives including a national education and awareness raising campaign directed to immigrant communities, a federally funded program to deliver stabilizing and sustaining services to foreign national victims of human trafficking, a federally funded project to build global awareness and the capacity to respond to victims of human trafficking and exploitation in the maritime industries, and a new program to provide specialized employment services to survivors of trafficking in the U.S. as well as the ongoing development and delivery of training curricula to national and international entities. That includes law enforcement advocacy and service providers, evaluations and quality improvement planning for service delivery and outreach programs, and of course research and advocacy. The ETP consults for the U.S. government on child trafficking cases and response to technical assistance requests.

[00:02:12] Dr. Chester has over 12 years of experience working with vulnerable migrants including unaccompanied children, victims of human trafficking and refugees. Program management, social science research, and evaluation. She is a member of the global COATnet, Christians Organization Against Trafficking steering committee, and has been an invited member of the national and international working and advisory groups on human trafficking migrant children and alternatives to migrant detention. She received her doctorate in anthropology from Southern Methodist University. Dr. Chester, we’re so glad to welcome you to Ending Human Trafficking.

Hilary: [00:02:50] Thank you. I’m excited to be here. I’m really excited to have the opportunity to share what we’re doing at the Bishops conference, and to see where there may be other people that are interested in what we’re doing and cross-promoting with what Sandie’s been doing.

Sandie: [00:03:03] I loved our e-mail conversation and I actually captured the quote under your e-mail signature, “creating a world where immigrants, refugees, migrants, and people on the move are treated with dignity, respect, welcome, and belonging.” And I have a sense, Hilary, that that’s kind of a life motto for you in everything you do.

Hilary: [00:03:28] It really is, I think it speaks certainly to my personal faith. And then also, I think it speaks to why I’ve worked in faith-based organizations on the issue of trafficking and serving migrants and refugees. I’ve always been, it seems, drawn to some of the most vulnerable among them- so the unaccompanied children who are migrating, refugees that are forced and displaced from their communities, and then certainly victims of human trafficking.

[00:03:56] And I think that what’s important to me is not just serving people, but also really thinking about how to empower them, how to help them move on so that they don’t continue to be in these vulnerable situations, and even thinking about how we talk about them as our beneficiaries. And how we talk about our programs and making sure that we’re using really empowering language so that the beneficiaries themselves don’t always kind of feel like a charity case. You know people want to feel like they have value, and contribute, and are not just always receiving assistance. So, I think that the issue of belonging and respect are really critical.

Sandie: [00:04:37] Wow, well that really fits our values of dignity and the idea of justice, where we do have equal opportunities. And we actually try to even the playing field for people who come to us with vulnerabilities and risks. So, we use, for our Ensure Justice conference every year, we base it on Proverbs 31:8, that tells us to be a voice for those who have no voice and ensure justice for those being crushed. And as I’ve gotten to know you and followed your website, the opportunity to intervene on the behalf of those being crushed is something that you’re doing amazing work and I appreciate your leadership. So, let’s jump in, and just tell us a little bit about the anti-trafficking program.

Hilary: [00:05:28] Sure. At the Bishops conference, we’ve had an anti-trafficking program since the early 2000s. But even before we had a standalone program, we were looking and advocating at the issue back in the late 1990s. In part because both our own programs for refugees and for migrants here in the U.S. and programs that our Catholic partners our Catholic sister organizations overseas we’re doing with, for example migrant workers for women and other people being displaced out of places like Eastern Europe at the time when the Soviet Union was dissolving, that people in these ministries were seeing people that they were serving in their traditional work with domestic violence, or their traditional work for migrant workers, or for refugees. But seeing situations and people in situations that were just a little bit different, a little bit off, and frankly a little bit more kind of criminal and sinister. And so, it was through that exposure to people in our own programs that we began, like others at the time we weren’t unique, to recognize that there was this sort of new distinct, maybe not new, but you know we thought needed to be highlighted as a separate crime.

[00:06:44] And so in the late 1...

170 – Chad Napier: Drug Trends and Risk in Our Communities Apr 22, 2018

Show notes

Dr. Sandie Morgan and Dave Stachowiak talk to Chad Napier about the devastating impact drug use has had in his community and the dangers of synthetic drugs.

Key Points

West Virginia leads the nation in drug overdose
National average is 19.8 per 100,000 but West Virginia is 52 per 100,000
Babies with Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome need to be weaned off the drugs after birth
Whenever there is a prescription pill problem, there is going to be a heroin problem (80% of heroin users come from prescription pill abuse)
Drug users often say that it’s no longer about being high, it’s about not getting sick from withdrawals
Fentanyl (a highly potent synthetic drug) is cut into almost every drug out there
We need to start looking at why people use drugs in the first place.

Resources

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Transcript

Dave: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast, this is episode number 170, Chad Napier: Drug Trends and Risks in Our Communities.

Production Credits: [00:00:11] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave: [00:00:30] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. My name is Dave Stachowiak.

Sandie: [00:00:36] My name is Sandie Morgan.

Dave: [00:00:38] And this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. Sandie, we’ve been spending the last couple of episodes of hearing from some of the experts that we had at the Ensure Justice conference this year in 2018. And today, another expert that is going to again challenge us with some new thinking and help us to study the issues, such an important mission of what the Global Center for Women and Justice is all about. Right?

Sandie: [00:01:09] Absolutely.

[00:01:11] I am so glad to welcome to our show today Chad Napier. Chad is the prevention coordinator for Appalachia HIDTA, which is the high-intensity drug trafficking area for West Virginia and Virginia since 2015. Prior to this position, he spent 20 years in law enforcement and retired back in 2015. In 1997, he was assigned to the CPD street crimes unit with the primary duties of investigation, arrest, and prosecution of street-level drug deals. For three years he was assigned as a detective with the Metropolitan drug enforcement network team, with the primary duties of investigation and prosecution of state and federal drug violations. He was later appointed the commander of the Metropolitan drug enforcement network team. He’s worked on hundreds of drug-related arrests and drug violations. And he’s also been declared as an expert witness in illegal drug possession and distribution in many state and federal courts. Chad we’re so glad to welcome you to Ending Human Trafficking.

Chad: [00:02:12] Thanks for having me.

Sandie: [00:02:13] We’re so excited. Originally, I tried to do an interview with you and your partner with Handle with Care, Andrea Karr. But we already interviewed her a couple episodes ago and now I’m really glad that you weren’t both available because we need more time with each of you individually. So, welcome. Let’s start off with learning a little bit more about what does it mean, the HIDTA, what does that really entail.

Chad: [00:02:44] HIDTA stands for High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area. So, there are 28 HIDTAs across the country, and I work for Appalachia HIDTA. And Appalachia HIDTA is in West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee. And Virginia. But HIDTAs are funded by the Office of National Drug Control Policy. So, like I said, there’s 28 across the country, and mainly they find your drug units throughout the areas that are designated as HIDTA counties and to dismantle and disrupt drug trafficking organizations and also money laundering organizations. But some HIDTAs also have prevention education coordinators, and that’s what I do.

Sandie: [00:03:19] So how would a listener find out if there is a HIDTA in their area?

Chad: [00:03:22] You can Google it online and look for your area, and find out what HIDTA actually represent your area. Like I said, there’s 28 across the country, I think they are in 49 states. So, if you get online, you can find out what counties are actually HIDTA counties and those that are not.

Sandie: [00:03:36] OK, I have a feeling we have some of those here in California.

Chad: [00:03:40] You definitely do.

Sandie: [00:03:41] We will definitely start looking that up. So, tell us a little bit about your work, on a day to day basis. What do you do?

Chad: [00:03:49] Spend a lot of time in schools. Last year we had six initiatives, this year we have two initiatives. In our initiative this year, one is the Handle with Care initiative, which you’re very familiar with. And then another initiative we have is Chasing the Dragon, which is an FBI and DEA joint venture, in order to bring knowledge to the opioid epidemic and the dangers of prescription pill abuse. So, on a given day, I may speak to 1000 kids at once. You know I’m not naive, as I go into a topic it’s about the drug awareness, drug trends. Take the attitude, you are speaking to these kids they’re very smart. You know, if one listens and doesn’t go down that road, then it’s obviously well worth my time. But also, I do a lot of education when it comes to professionals, especially teachers and principals. But I don’t exclude any of us, spoken of a lot of colleges, and then also even for hospitals and other professionals.

Sandie: [00:04:41] OK, so when I met you and Andrea, you used the expression that your HIDTA is ground zero for the opioid crisis. And can you tell me what that feels like because it is a battle? So, describe what your situation is right there.

Chad: [00:05:04] Well, West Virginia unfortunately, we’re leading the nation in the drug overdose death rate. The national average is going to be around 19.8 per 100,000 and West Virginia is at 52 per 100,000. We also lead the nation in new cases of hepatitis B, and we lead the new cases of hepatitis C. We are first in neonatal abstinence syndrome, babies born exposed to drugs. The national average is around 6 per thousand, and West Virginia is at 53 per thousand. Then our hardest hit community in West Virginia sets in our across state area West Virginia, Kentucky, Ohio area is 153 per thousand. So, you know with this opioid epidemic, we’re starting to obviously see all the other things that come along with it and that’s blowing up our school system, our foster care. And then you look at all the diseases that are associa...

169 – Dr. Jodi Quas: Communicating with Child Victims of Trauma Apr 08, 2018

Show notes

Dr. Sandra Morgan and Dave Stachowiak talk to Dr. Jodi Quas about children dealing with chronic stress. When helping children who are under chronic stress, we need to realize that many of their behavioral problems are symptoms of the stress, not just because they are poorly disciplined.

Key Points

Acute stress is normal, and humans can deal with it and recover quickly. Chronic stress leads to long-term health and behavioral issues.
Chronic stress causes many problems in children, and can manifest itself in apparent behavioral issues like inattention.
Some of the stress responses that cause problems outside of the home are actually beneficial to surviving in a high-stress home.
Children who suffer trauma are more likely to interpret people’s expressions as anger.

Resources

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Transcript

Dave: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast, this is episode number 169, Dr. Jodi Quas: Communicating with Child Victims of Trauma.

Production Credits: [00:00:10] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave: [00:00:31] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. My name is Dave Stachowiak.

Sandie: [00:00:36] And my name is Sandie Morgan.

Dave: [00:00:38] And this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. Sandie, one of the things I’m most grateful for over the years of knowing you, is just the wonderful lessons you bring in connecting me and us with so many experts out there. And as I mentioned in the introduction, studying the issues is a huge mission of the Global Center for Women and Justice and particularly around the issue. And today we have an expert from her own backyard, here at the University of California Irvine, that I know is going to really challenge us with some new thinking. And I’m so excited for our conversation today.

Sandie: [00:01:18] I’m looking forward to it.

Dave: [00:01:21] We’re glad to welcome Dr. Jodi Quas to the show today. She is a professor of psychology and social behavior at the University of California Irvine. Her work focuses on children’s eyewitness capabilities, consequences of legal involvement on child victims, witnesses, and defendants, and children’s and adolescents coping with stress maltreatment and trauma. She teaches and conducts training for academic and professional audiences worldwide on these topics. She has received numerous awards for her research and student training, including the scientific early career contributions in developmental psychology from the APA, and the outstanding mentoring award from the American Psychology and Law Society. Dr. Quas, we’re so glad to welcome you to the show today.

Jodi: [00:02:05] Thank you so much. I’m absolutely delighted to be able to speak with you and to hopefully learn from you, while also sharing some of my thoughts.

Sandie: [00:02:13] Well Jodi, you and I have known each other for a few years. I think Judge Maria Hernandez introduced us, and every year I grow to appreciate more the expertise that you bring on how we can use your knowledge, your expertise, your research when we work with youth who are at risk for trafficking or have been trafficked, because communicating with victims of trauma has some minefields in it. For those of us who just want to go in, we want to help you and we’ve got stuff for you, and then we’re really disappointed when they don’t respond well. Because we think our motivation is fantastic and they should appreciate that, right?

Jodi: [00:03:02] Well, I mean for first of all I guess our motivation is fantastic, and I would hate to stop anybody from working hard thinking that their motivation isn’t anything but amazing. So, yes it is. But when you work with highly vulnerable populations including maltreated children, children exposed to chronic violence, children who grow up under conditions of extreme poverty or uncertainty that is all of the children who are at risk for becoming involved in trafficking. It’s really important to take into account the broader lives of these children. And so, when you’re interacting with them, perhaps you’re interacting with them because of a particular trafficking incident or set of experiences related to trafficking. But children come with these entire histories of experiences that have shaped in really profound and long-lasting ways how they respond to the world, how they interpret the world, and how they interact and communicate with others.

Sandie: [00:04:18] So, at Ensure Justice we were looking at the intersection of substance abuse and drug addiction and Andrea Darr, was a guest on our show the last episode. And this kind of helps us drill down from what she talked to us about, with Handle with Care, that when we see these kids we need to understand some of the backstories. So, when you talk about the difference between acute and chronic family stress that really speaks to the environment that they’re in and they don’t have control. So, what do we need to know about that?

Jodi: [00:04:58] It is true that we need to kind of differentiate or at least heuristically acute vs. chronic stress acute stress we all experience. We have bad days, we give a really bad presentation, and these are usually single incidents. In children maybe witnessing a fight, even a violent fight between parent, and these are the kinds of events that we think about when we talk about stressors. And our bodies and our minds, we’re actually fairly well programmed to respond to those acute stressors, even if they’re predictable or unpredictable we mount a response, we attend, we figure out and strategize about how to solve whatever challenge is in front of us. And then afterward we recover or regulate. That’s really different than the kinds of chronic, repeated stressors that really define the lives of many of the children who eventually end up in situations where they are exposed to when involved in trafficking. So, these chronic stressors can be things like extreme poverty, neglect, exposure to physical abuse. Sometimes they’re predictable sometimes they’re not. But what happens when you’re exposed to these chronic stressors is we need to mount a response. And we do, when we have these stress systems that are developed to mount these responses. The problem is that we can’t keep mounting these responses. Over time the stress systems that are activated, they need to adjust, they need to change. And those changes or this adjustment actually have consequences, they have health consequences, they have consequences for how children come to understand and interpret their world, they have consequences for regulation and even academic performance and cognition.

Sandie: [00:07:04] When you’re talking about regulation, can you ki...

168 – Drug Endangered Children: Handle with Care Mar 25, 2018

Show notes

Dr. Sandra Morgan and Dave Stachowiak talk to Andrea Darr from Handle with Care West Virginia about her state’s drug crisis and the effect it is having on its children. She also shares the ways the Handle with CARE program helps these children.

Key Points

West Virginia is ground zero for the opioid crisis.
People are more likely to die from a drug overdose in West Virginia than in any other state in the county.
The origin of the opioid crisis was when physicians would give physical laborers (loggers, coal miners, etc) pain killers instead of surgery or physical therapy just so they would get right back to work.
Sometimes helpers unwittingly traumatize children.
For many misbehaving children, they would be better served by being sent to a school therapist than the school principal
The 3 parts of a Handle with Care program: Get Law Enforcement on board, make schools trauma-informed, have therapists on site at the schools.

Resources

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Transcript

Dave: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. This is episode number 168, Drug Endangered Children: Handle with Care.

Production Credits: [00:00:09] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

[00:00:29] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. My name is Dave Stachowiak.

Sandie: [00:00:34] And my name is Sandie Morgan.

Dave: [00:00:36] And this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. And today’s guest, Sandie, is going to be such an important addition to our ongoing conversation on ending human trafficking. And also, very much connected to the theme upcoming for the Ensure Justice conference.

Sandie: [00:00:57] That’s right. And by the time you’re listening to this podcast, Andrea and her colleague, Chad Napier, will have been presenters here at Ensure Justice. And you’ll have to go back and review that, and make sure you sign up for 2019.

Dave: [00:01:13] Well we are really pleased to welcome Andrea Darr to the show today. She is the director of the West Virginia’s Center for Children’s Justice, which promotes and supports a statewide trauma informed response to child maltreatment and children’s exposure to violence. Before devoting her work full time on children’s initiatives, Andrea served as the coordinator of Victim Witness services for the West Virginia Prosecuting Attorneys Institute from 2005 to 2015. Andrea’s also worked in direct services with victims of crime violence and abuse, while serving as the victim liaison in the Konneh County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office. Andrea we’re so glad to welcome you to Ending Human Trafficking.

Andrea: [00:01:56] Well, thank you so much for having me today.

Sandie: [00:01:59] So we’re going to dig right into this podcast content because there’s so much information that we’d love for you to explain for us. My first question is, can you explain what a drug endangered child is?

Andrea: [00:02:17] Sure. Drug endangered children are children whose lives have been adversely affected by their parents or caregivers, youth manufacturing, trafficking illegal substances. So, their children that experience a wide range of abuse and neglect because of the substances. For the most part, a neglect really stands out in this because a lot of times when people are addicted to drugs, you know that’s their focus, that’s their primary focus. It’s the first thing they think about in the morning. What does my stash look like? How am I going to use today? How am I going to get some more? Where am I going to get the money to cover it? So, they’re not thinking about packing the child’s lunch, getting the child to school, making sure they have clean clothes. And when you get into cocaine and methamphetamine and things like that, the physical violence really escalates with that. And the sexual violence escalates. So, it’s just children who didn’t choose this, but they live in homes where there’s substance abuse. And it really negatively affects them.

Sandie: [00:03:18] We’ve known that this is an issue that we need to engage for a long time. But the media attention we have now to the opioid crisis, brings this to the top of the charts. And you live at ground zero. Can you explain why that’s so significant?

Andrea: [00:03:39] It’s so significant for these kids. You know you’re more likely in West Virginia to die from a drug overdose than any other state in the country. We are ground zero for the opioid epidemic. We’re a very rural state, rural as in non-farming. So, two thirds of the total population live sort of a rural, non-farming area. In West Virginia for years and years coal was king here. Lots of the jobs here were coal, and timbering, and lots of physically manual jobs. And a lot of these people when they got hurt, often doctors would give them a pill instead of doing the physical therapy and the surgery and everything needed just to get them back to work. So, in West Virginia we have lost 40 percent of our coal jobs in the last five years. And when you lose your job it’s not just a paycheck- it’s who you are, your purposes, your connection to the community, your connection with your family, it’s so many things about yourself. So, for our population to lose these jobs have been devastating. And along with that, one in four of our kids live below the federal poverty line. We are ground zero for the opioid epidemic. We had a terrible pill problem, which obviously turned into a terrible heroin problem because it is cheaper and it’s more accessible. We have one of the highest rates of neonatal abstinence syndrome, you know babies born with drugs in their system. And all these things are creating a really high rate of transient kids, couch surfing kids, kids who you know they’re just transients, they’re just staying wherever they can, however they can survive. And of course, that’s how I got to you all today, and coming to the conference because oftentimes they get picked up in trafficking situations just to survive. And in West Virginia we lead the nation in removal of kids from homes because of all these problems. And I think we’re right now second in the country in grandparents raising their grandkids.

Sandie: [00:05:41] Oh my goodness.

Andrea: [00:05:43] You put all that together and you’ve got so many transient and displaced children who aren’t on anybody’s radar really.

Sandie: [00:05:52] And when do you historically feel like this started to really come to the attention in West Virginia, of child welfare of government? How long have you been tracking this?

167 – A 3 Pointer to #SlamDemand Mar 11, 2018

Show notes

Dr. Sandra Morgan and Dave Stachowiak talk about a great way to promote human trafficking awareness during basketball’s March Madness. Join in on the #SlamDemand hashtag!

How to get 3 points for #SlamDemand

Post a #SlamDemand factoid on social media.
Put the National Human Trafficking Hotline number 1-888-373-7888 in your phone.
Download the Sweat and Toil app for iPhone or Android.

The #SlamDemand Toolkit

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Transcript

Dave: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. This is episode number 167, A Three-Pointer to #SlamDemand.

Production Credits: [00:00:08] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave: [00:00:28] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. My name is Dave Stachowiak.

Sandie: [00:00:34] And my name is Sandie Morgan.

Dave: [00:00:36] And this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. And scoring a three-pointer now and then, right Sandie.

Sandie: [00:00:47] That’s right. You know of all of the sports, basketball was always a little more assessable for me as a very vertically challenged person. I know that sounds a little counterintuitive, but I was a good guard in middle school because people tripped over me.

Dave: [00:01:08] Used it to your advantage.

Sandie: [00:01:09] Yeah. There you go. And then people didn’t expect me to actually shoot, but I could do a decent layup. So, I like watching basketball, it moves fast, the games are always really energetic, and I just love basketball. So, when the anti-trafficking world started using sports as a platform for increasing awareness about human trafficking like Nicosia did #tackledemand during the Super Bowl. So, when a lot of people are focused on a sport, there’s a brand-new audience for us to start talking to about human trafficking. And we’ve got to spread and broaden our reach. And during baseball season Deidre Pujols launched #strikeoutslavery in 2016. So, this year at Vanguard University our Live to Free students, launched #slamdemand at a doubleheader, I don’t know if they say that in basketball, but two games in one night, and at our Vanguard gym. And it was so much fun. And our students were posting on social media. Our athletes were doing their best jump shots to slam dunk, and the focus was on all forms of human trafficking. So, I thought, let’s equip our community with the toolkit we put together for that event at Vanguard. March Madness is coming up. Do you know what that is?

Dave: [00:02:52] I do know what March Madness.

Sandie: [00:02:53] Well tell us about it.

Dave: [00:02:55] The NCAA tournament that happens every year for college basketball, it’s you know they get down to Sweet 16, and the Elite 8, and the Final Four, and eventually there’s a national championship. I don’t know what city it is in this year.

Sandie: [00:03:08] It’s in San Antonio this year.

Dave: [00:03:10] Oh good. So yeah, it’s quite the event and especially the couple days with the first and second rounds are going on, so many people across the country are watching it and tuning into it. So, it really seems like a logical place, Sandie, to come alongside and to raise awareness. And that actually brings up a point as we’re of course really big on prevention. And I know you say a lot about we need to move beyond just awareness but in this case a slightly different focus, right?

Sandie: [00:03:35] Yeah, I’m actually kind of adjusting my perceptions on this because sometimes awareness is prevention. It’s like if there has been a flood or something, they’ll put signs up, “water is contaminated, don’t drink from here.” Well, that’s preventing people from getting some really awful health issues. But in an area of fighting human trafficking where we haven’t really reached a population. Sports fans they are a cross-section of our community across our nation. And for these few days every year, everybody’s tuned in that is a fan of that particular sport. And so, we want that to happen during March Madness. And we want to equip you, as a sports fan, to spread this awareness to your community. And we looked at this a little bit from a basketball rules point of view. Like, when I was growing up, so this kind of tells you how old I am. You could only score two points with a basket.

Dave: [00:04:40] Really?

Sandie: [00:04:43] See Dave, for you what was the top score?

Dave: [00:04:46] Of my top score?

Sandie: [00:04:47] Yeah. Did you ever get a three-pointer?

Dave: [00:04:50] Oh, I’m sure I did when I was standing by myself after attempting it seven times at a gym. No one else around. But I don’t think ever in a basketball game.

Sandie: [00:04:58] Well I went online to look at how did that come into being, because I didn’t get to do that. And so, I found out that it’s kind of a very measured arc and it’s like 22 feet away from the basket, and so you get three points instead of only two because the level of expertise is higher. Right? So, my theory in using this model is that you, as a listener, will improve your expertise and improve your score on fighting human trafficking during March Madness by using our little tool kit as a way to just bring it up and increase people’s awareness and understanding of how they might be contributing to demand. And that is the key to reduce human trafficking, we have to reduce demand. And we’ve talked about that on this show so many times and it is an important aspect.

Dave: [00:06:02] So that’s what the three-pointers are. And you mentioned you didn’t get to do a three-pointer, why was that?

Sandie: [00:06:07] Because it didn’t exist when I was a student. We only had two points in 1979.

Dave:

166 – The Science of Addiction with Dr. Michael Hanna Feb 25, 2018

Show notes

Dr. Sandra Morgan and Dave Stachowiak talk to Dr. Michael Hanna about how addiction is actually a brain disease and that treating addiction is a very complicated task that involves the mind, body, and soul.

Key Points

The 5 Cs of Addiction: Control (loss of), Compulsive use, Continued Use, Consequences, and Cravings
Addiction is a loss of control and continued use despite negative consequences.
Addicts already know it’s bad for them — you don’t need to convince them.
Most addicts don’t get the high that they used to — they’re just trying to maintain a sense of normalcy.
Addiction is not a willpower issue — it is a physiological response.

Resources

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Transcript

Dave: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. This is episode number 166, The Science of Addiction with Dr. Michael Hanna.

Production Credits: [00:00:09] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave: [00:00:29] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. My name is Dave Stachowiak.

Sandie: [00:00:33] And my name is Sandie Morgan.

Dave: [00:00:36] And this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. Sandie, just about every episode we do try to zero in on all those, and sometimes a specific one. And I have a feeling today studying the issues and learning more about especially addiction, is going to be key as far as a big takeaway from this conversation.

Sandie: [00:00:58] Well I’m excited to have as our guest, my colleague from Vanguard University, Dr. Michael Hanna. And he teaches at Vanguard neurobiology and he was a neurobiology lab teacher at UCI, he was adjunct faculty at Mount San Antonio Community College and Los Angeles Trade Technical College before he came to Vanguard. And he has a lot of experience in substance abuse, neurological disorders, developmental disorders. And he is also involved in tutoring and college prep programs for high school youth in Orange County. So, he’s absolutely our kind of guy. I sat down with him and had a conversation, and all the things that I want to read now, I am just so thrilled. Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast, Michael.

Michael: [00:01:57] Thank you very much for having me.

Sandie: [00:01:59] So let’s start off with our first question. What is an addiction?

Michael: [00:02:06] One of the ways I like addressing addiction is by C’s because unfortunately a lot of times we use that term addiction so lightly. You know I’m addicted to ice cream, I’m addicted to candy, but I think five C’s kind of comprise what real addiction is. And one of them is a loss of control, this inability to stop whenever you want to. And most people that are actually addicts, will tell you I really do want to stop but I just can’t. So that’s one of them. You know this compulsive drug use that’s kind of the second thing that I think of. And then a big one is continued use, despite negative consequences. People even though they know that it’s just harming their lives and it’s just causing all of these problems, and they logically notice stuff, they continue to use this. And then the last one that I think of is this strong craving for these drugs. And you know some that are just almost impossible or very difficult to overcome these cravings. So that’s kind of the way that I think of addiction, as this loss of control and the continued use despite negative consequences.

Sandie: [00:03:17] So let me make sure I’ve got all five Cs. The first one is a loss of control. What was the second one?

Michael: [00:03:26] Compulsive drug use.

Sandie: [00:03:29] So compulsive kind of means that I can’t stop myself.

Michael: [00:03:34] Right. It’s almost like I got to do it almost every day, or you know depending on obviously different types of drugs. You know I can’t go to sleep without thinking about when my next hit is. So, this constant need for it. So, the loss of control can be just even the amount of it, but the compulsive use is almost like an everyday thing that I’m thinking of.

Sandie: [00:03:55] And then the next one is continued use. And then the last one was craving so I think I didn’t get the fourth one written down.

Michael: [00:04:06] Oh the consequences was the fifth one, negative consequences.

Sandie: [00:04:07] Yeah. And that’s the part where when I’m logically trying to talk to a friend or someone that I’m concerned about, and I use my logic “well here the consequences” and I think that I’m being very convincing and then they don’t stop. So, logic isn’t very effective in addictions.

Michael: [00:04:33] No not at all. And they will tell you. If you talk to several addicts they will tell you, “I really want to stop and I know this is messing up my life.” And they logically know, you don’t have to convince them at all that it’s bad for them, they know that already. I would say a lot of times they’re the ones that actually want to stop. So, you don’t have to try to convince them that it’s bad for you, I think that’s beating a dead horse. They already know that.

Sandie: [00:05:02] So what do I need to know about what happens in your brain that is related to this addiction process?

Michael: [00:05:10] You know I think that’s one of the biggest misconceptions that it’s all about willpower, that people can just stop whenever they want. But addiction is a brain disease. Often times I make that analogy. Let’s say, someone who’s been eating really bad all their life, all their life they had junk food, and so now they have a heart condition, they have an enlarged heart. And now as a result of this damaged organ, this enlarged heart, they have high blood pressure. Right? Now imagine if you go to someone that has high blood pressure, and then you go to them and you tell them, “how dare you have high blood pressure, lower your blood pressure.” You know, go ahead, do it now. I mean we laugh at that because that’s just ridiculous. You would never go to someone that has high blood pressure and tell them you know just lower it. Because what it is, it’s a symptom of a dysfunctional organ, and that organ is the heart.

165 – The Intersection of Substance Abuse and Human Trafficking Feb 09, 2018

Show notes

Dr. Sandra Morgan and Dave Stachowiak discuss the relationship between substance abuse and human trafficking. They also talk about drug use among youths and the best way to prevent. They wrap up by discussing the 2018 Ensure Justice conference and explain its focus on preventing substance abuse.

Key Points

Overdoses have surpassed car crashes as the main cause of death among young people.
The number-one cause of child abuse is a family member with a substance abuse issue.
People use drugs to self-medicate for pain in their lives.
The earlier kids start trying drugs, the more likely they are to develop an addiction.
It’s important to train health-care providers how to spot human trafficking victims because 87% of trafficking victims had been seen by a provider.
Prevention is best done through peer-led education.

Resources

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Transcript

Dave: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. This is episode number 165, The Intersection of Substance Abuse and Human Trafficking.

Production Credits: [00:00:09] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave: [00:00:29] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. My name is Dave Stachowiak.

Sandie: [00:00:34] And my name is Sandie Morgan.

Dave: [00:00:37] And this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. Sandie, so many of us have been hearing about substance abuse, and so many of the issues here within the states and within North America around substance abuse. And there’s just so many ways this plays out in our society right now. And of course, I guess I shouldn’t say of course but I don’t think it’s going to be a surprise, that there’s a link to human trafficking as well too. And I think we’re going to spend some time really exploring that in today’s conversation.

Sandie: [00:01:11] So the intersection between substance abuse and human trafficking is becoming a highly discussed topic now. With the media attention to the opioid crisis, we know that overdose as a cause of death has overtaken car crashes for young people. And that was a huge transition last year when the 2016 stats came in. And now we begin to see how it plays out in so many other areas. For me personally, it became a huge commitment to start planning Ensure Justice 2018. Back in January 2017, I was in the Orange County We Can Coalition meeting, and Dr. Anne Light read some information that they had pulled from some of their strategic planning as they reviewed what were the risk factors for child abuse in Orange County. And the number one thing they identified is a family member with an addiction, with a substance abuse issue. And for me that was like click, dominoes Falling. Because it’s kind of like reading a book where you get to a page and if you choose this page then you go on and you see the next part of the story or if you go over here you’ll see this and this. And so, when she said that because in the We Can coalition we’re trying to work to end child abuse and neglect. And those of you who have been listening for a long time to Ending Human Trafficking, you know that prevention of child abuse is a huge piece of ending the commercial sexual exploitation of children. Because if a child is abused, if a child is neglected there are so many repercussions. And we see then that they become more vulnerable to being recruited. They become more likely to run away from the violence or they’re taken out of the home for a very good reason because they need to be safe and they don’t like being taken out of the home, and so they run away from the security there. And it’s always important for listeners to understand that our group homes for youth are safe, no one can get in and harm our children. But they are not secure, that children these young people 14 or 15 years old can run away and we cannot restrain them. So, what are the issues around substance abuse and human trafficking? That’s what we want to talk about.

Dave: [00:04:03] It’s reminding me Sandie of the conversation we’ve had many times on the show, and you and I personally too, of the connections between some of the real challenges we have in our society and human trafficking. And homelessness is one that comes up to my mind too, and we think about child abuse and homelessness and some of these other factors, that on their face we don’t think about in the same lens. At least I didn’t use to with human trafficking and they are often the starting point for the risk factors that then lead to human trafficking. So, like you’ve always been saying prevention and how can we really look at some of the core, maybe it’s not fair to say the exact word cause, but things that really do influence someone getting in the situation that ends up being human trafficking.

Sandie: [00:04:51] Well and if you think about a child who’s experiencing a lot of abuse, they’re suffering, and they’re looking for some kind of relief. And one of their friends offers them something and they begin to use that to self-medicate for the pain in their lives. It’s emotional pain, there may be also a physical pain but that begins an addiction journey that when it’s discovered everybody says, “well why did this happen to this kid? Why did he do that? Why did he make such poor decisions?” And people don’t look back to find out that there was a place where that could have been changed. And so, we’re back in that book, choosing another ending. And this child has an addiction issue that started because of something else in his life. And we’re going to at Ensure Justice talk about addiction, and the brain, and the science of the brain. And it’s absolutely important for parents to understand that kids experimenting at a young age, they’re actually more vulnerable to long-term addiction, the earlier they start trying drugs. So, you start down that chapter and you have a whole different scenario. And my concern for parents is that they feel like our house is safe, and so my kids are safe. But they need to be able to understand the trends out there, the way social media drives attention and opportunity creates opportunities. So, one of the workshops that we have at Ensure Justice, we’re pulling in an expert from our Orange County Department of Education, and Steven Lambert is going to do a professional workshop for educators and social workers. But he’s also really passionate about equipping parents. And he sat in my office and we talked about the parents, and how do we connect with them? And we’re going to work on doing the same thing in Spanish. You know we’ve been doing a lot more in Spanish for our Spanish speaking community that we really appreciate. This is a good moment to say that besides having the Spanish workshops track and Spanish translation for the...

163 – #SilenceisNotSpiritual: Breaking the Silence on Violence Against Women and Girls Jan 21, 2018

Show notes

Dr. Sandra Morgan and Dave Stachowiak discuss the power of the #SilenceisNotSpiritual movement and the best ways to implement changes in our own communities.

Key Points

#SilenceisNotSpiritual is different than most movement hashtags because it requires people to sign a commitment that they will stand with women and for women.
75% of harassment victims experience retaliation.
If you are going to help a women escape a violent situation or file a sexual harassment lawsuit then you also need to be willing to stand by them during the fallout.
If community and political leadership are heavily populated by men, does that affect its response to harassment of women?
Many churches that have policies that allow women in leadership don’t actually have any women in those positions.

Resources

http://www.silenceisnotspiritual.org/
The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R. Covey
https://www.211oc.org/
Gerda Lerner
Center for Biblical Equality

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If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to subscribe or rate the podcast on iTunes by clicking here. Click here for FAQs about podcasts and how to subscribe.

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Transcript

Dave: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. This is episode number 163, #SilenceIsNotSpiritual: Breaking the Silence on Violence Against Women and Girls.

Production Credits: [00:00:12] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave: [00:00:32] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. My name is Dave Stachowiak.

Sandie: [00:00:37] And my name is Sandie Morgan.

Dave: [00:00:40] And this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. Sandie, we certainly couldn’t not say something about this topic, with everything that’s been going on in the media and in the news over the last five or six months. There’s so much happening, there’s so much conversation going on. We’re at the very beginning of a revolution which has needed to happen. And yet there is so much complexity here. And yet today we’re going to try and tackle one piece of this. And one way that one organization is responding. And I think that there will be some takeaways for all of us on how we can think about this differently, especially here in the New Year.

Sandie: [00:01:25] I’ve heard someone say this is a defining moment in history. Here in the news, we see it felt like for a few weeks like there was a sexual harassment revelation every single week and someone lost their jobs. And how do we respond to that? And one of the things that a group of my close friends began to look at is how do we as women respond in a context that we’re part of our churches. And so, it isn’t about alienating ourselves from media, or even pointing fingers at men who are bad, and things like that, but really taking the opportunity with this attention to look at issues that surround violence against women and girls. And this is really important from the Ending Human Trafficking perspective because we know that when we look at prevention models, many of the girls who end up in being trafficked had an experience either with sexual abuse as a child with sexual assault that left them in a vulnerable position, and may have run away or found themselves in a place where they were much more recruitable or even abducted. Manage all of those things, you can you can go back and listen to some of those podcasts.

Sandie: [00:02:52] But how do we be proactive now? And so, this group has launched #SilenceIsNotSpiritual. And the first time I heard the hashtag idea, I thought oh that sounds like Sin by Silence. And Sin by Silence is the name of a documentary that Vanguard alum, Olivia Klaus Morrogh, created based on our beloved founder’s research, Dr. Elizabeth Leonard’s, on convicted survivors women who had been battered and ended up in prison because their husbands died in an altercation at their hand. And so, the idea that breaking that silence is part of the key to ending violence, this was an echo of that. And I wanted to pursue that, so I said yes, I’ll sign and I’m like the fourth signature or so on this. Now it has almost 5000 signatures when I looked yesterday. And the idea is that this has gone beyond awareness. We push things out, you’ve got Twitter stuff, you retweet the things you like, I push things out on Facebook. But this means that you actually have to go to the site and sign it. So, it’s real engagement. We’re not measuring how many hits; how many people saw it. I mean the first day I posted it, it had 470 views. That doesn’t matter. That does not matter. We watch things happen, we’re bystanders. This is about getting involved during a defining moment in history. And we want people to go to the website and sign that they’re standing with women and standing up for women. Those are the two actions statements.

Dave: [00:04:54] As people are listening to this episode, I know one of the calls to action we’ll have is to go visit the website, Sandie. When you do sign what is it you’re committing to, what is the organization really trying to do in order to effect change?

Sandie: [00:05:06] Well want to go beyond the #MeToo or even the #ChurchToo. And we don’t want to be out there saying oh who’s doing this wrong. We want to look in our own community and Vanguard is a private Christian university. The leaders that launched this are women who are in leadership and in the Evangelical church world. And so, we want to take responsibility in our own context. We want to look at what’s happening in our churches. One of the things that they were very intentional about was doing their research through research communities that are part of the churches like they use LifeWay Research. They did a poll a survey, LifeWay Research did, of a thousand pastors. And discovered that 74 percent knew about violence against women but they had very unrealistic expectations about if it was present in their own churches.

Dave: [00:06:12] Interesting.

Sandie: [00:06:13] And so how do you move forward and create space to stand up for women, if you think it doesn’t exist in your church. And so, we have to break that silence. That’s why its silence is not spiritual, being a voice, and how many times have you heard me say Proverbs 31:8 says, “Be a voice for those who have no voice, ensure justice for those being crushed.” And that’s really the premise for me signing this. It isn’t an option for me. I want to sign this. I want to support a movement that calls us to reflect in our own community, in our own backyard.

Dave: [00:06:55] Well and you think one of the challenges with the current defining moment revolution whatever term we want to use that’s ...

162 – Starfish Business Model for Serving Survivors, with Jenny McGee Jan 14, 2018

Show notes

Jenny McGee from Starfish Projects shares about why it’s so important to build sustainable businesses and teach women high-level job skills. She explains how Starfish Projects exists to help women experience freedom, establish independence, and develop careers.

Key Points

Sometimes it can take years to get a person to join the program.
Many of the girls in brothels have been tricked by family members and relatives.
A key to success is to surround yourself by experts in different areas.
Many fair trade jewelry companies provide jobs through handcrafting their products but the jewelry tends not to last long.

Resources

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If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to subscribe or rate the podcast on iTunes by clicking here. Click here for FAQs about podcasts and how to subscribe.

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Transcript

Dave: [00:00:00] You’re listening to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. This is episode number 162, Jenny McGee Explains the Starfish Business Model for Serving Survivors.

Production Credits: [00:00:12] Produced by Innovate Learning, maximizing human potential.

Dave: [00:00:32] Welcome to the Ending Human Trafficking podcast. My name is Dave Stachowiak.

Sandie: [00:00:36] And my name is Sandie Morgan.

Dave: [00:00:39] And this is the show where we empower you to study the issues, be a voice, and make a difference in ending human trafficking. The podcast is produced out of the Global Center for Women and Justice here at Vanguard University. And Sandie, it is a special month here in January 2018 when we’re airing the show.

Sandie: [00:00:58] I am always excited when January rolls around and it’s not because I get a new calendar, it’s because it is National Slavery and Human Trafficking Prevention Month. And this month we are on a roll, we’re doing a podcast every week. And Dave, thank you so much for the extra support so we can do this to celebrate January for prevention.

Dave: [00:01:20] The pleasure is mine and I’m so glad we have yet another expert here today who’s going to give us another perspective in a particular demonstrating a sustainable business model that goes beyond rescue. And we are pleased to welcome Jenny McGee to the show today. She is the executive director and founder of Starfish Project, a social enterprise dedicated to restoring hope to trafficked and exploited women and girls. She has worked and lived in Asia with her family for over 15 years and has been helping women experience freedom, establish independence, and develop careers. Jenny, we’re so glad to welcome you today.

Jenny: [00:01:57] Yeah thank you for having me, I’m happy to be here.

Sandie: [00:02:00] Well I was privileged to meet you in person a couple times this last year. And each time I met with you I was more impressed with the excellent business model that you have. Being at Vanguard I have lots of young students and alumni who want to go out and do something meaningful, and I want them all to learn how you have done it because you’ve used a holistic care program that really does take into account the whole rescue aspect of helping women out of this. But at the same time, you’re working towards a long hard goal that is going to sustain the women and also your business models. So, do you want to tell us a little bit about what Starfish is?

Jenny: [00:02:56] Yes so like you said, I’ve lived in Asia for 15 years and started an organization, and it’s really about three things helping women experience freedom, establish independence, and develop careers. So, at Starfish Project we have outreach teams to go out into the red-light areas, visit the women and girls there. And that’s all ages, we see girls as young as 12 years old, up to women who are in their 60s working in the brothels. And so, we just visit them regularly, share with them, see whatever we can do to help them, and then really offer them an opportunity to come out of the brothels. And so, women can come into our shelters, and this is where they establish independence piece really comes, and they can join our shelters. And we try to get them living independently within two years and then they can work at our jewelry company, where we hire the women. But we really see that as sort of a platform for the girls to learn a lot of different skills. And so, we have some vocational training there, where we do an assessment when the women first come in. And some of them can’t read or write when they first come to us, and so we start with basic literacy class. We try to give them really transferable skills as soon as we can and so all of the girls eventually go through our computer programs, where they learn a Microsoft Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, and they get a certification from Microsoft Corporation. And so, the women going to that program, eventually if they finish all four, they become Microsoft Office specialists.

Sandie: [00:04:32] OK so back up just a little bit. You go out into the brothels, so you don’t take like a team of people with black ops experience to knock down the doors and rescue the women?

Jenny: [00:04:46] No, actually one of our teams is led by a woman who has come out of the brothels herself. And so, she adds a lot of wisdom and support to us, but we’re just regular people who go into the shops. And what I found is, you know a lot of girls have been tricked themselves by their own family members, their own relatives. So, it takes a lot to build trust with them. You know, we don’t just walk in and they immediately want to come out of the brothels. A lot of them are used to their lives there. I mean sometimes it can take years of building support with them, building a relationship with them, and building that trust that they believe that we have a better job for them and that they can really trust us to come with us.

Sandie: [00:05:34] Can you off the top of your head, tell us how many times you might have Met the same girl before she agrees that she wants to come to Starfish?

Jenny: [00:05:43] Yes. It’s interesting we’ve had girls that we met, and the first time they say please help me I can’t survive this place. And then we’ve had other girls where we met them, and one girl in particularly we lost contact with her, and five years later she contacted us and said do you still have a job for me. So, some of them it can take many years, and sometimes it’s just the situation where they’re finally in a place where they realize you know I deserve more or I want more. Sometimes that takes a lot of time for them to reach that place themselves.

Sandie: [00:06:19] So when they come out, they know that you’re going to train them for a vocation?

Jenny: [00:06:26] Yeah. We talk with them a lot about our training programs. And a lot of the girls come to us not as much because they want another job, but they’re thinking long-term about their future and ...

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