Show notes
Caitlin Mitchell from EB Academics joins the podcast to discuss how we can handle constructive criticism well as teachers. You can reach Caitlin at: https://ebacademics.com/ https://www.instagram.com/ebacademics/ Thank you to our sponsors: eSpark Learning go.espark.app/educator and Hand 2 Mind https://www.hand2mind.com/ Carrie (00:04): Hello and welcome to educators to educators podcast. I'm Carrie Conover and this is episode number 67: How to Handle Constructive Criticism Well. I'm Carrie, the founder and CEO of educators to educators. Thank you so much for joining me for this episode. Today we have a very special guest and we are going to talk about a topic that can be kind of tough - constructive criticism. Before we get started talking to our guest, Caitlin, I want to remind all of you that we have recently launched e2e modules. E2e modules are courses that you can take to learn a new skill or explore professional development. We have recently relaunched Classroom to Boardroom. Classroom to Boardroom is a module that will teach you everything you've ever wanted to know about working for an education company. As many of you know, if you know my story, I went from being a veteran teacher in Chicago public schools to an executive at Discovery Education. Carrie (01:08): I've been there, I've spent eight years in education technology. In this module, I teach you all the various types of jobs out there in the education world, the different types of companies you can work for, the salaries, all of the different options you've always wanted to know. I really believe that sometimes teachers yearn for more and want to leave the classroom and they shouldn't feel guilty about that, and so I created this module to teach you how to transition out of the classroom, but stay in education. I don't want you going to work in retail or for a bank. I want you to stay in education and use your treasures and talents. You can learn more about the Classroom to Boardroom module, at educators2educators.com/career. Carrie (01:57): Caitlin Mitchell is one of the founders of EB academics along with co-founder Jessica. Katelyn and Jessica are the authors, teachers, and curriculum creators behind the EB Teachers' Club and Writing Instruction: A Proven Approach. They have both been ELA teachers and ELA coaches for more than 25 years combined and curriculum developers since 2012. Caitlin and Jessica created AB academics to help make the lives of middle school ELA teachers easier while supplying them with quality and engaging ELA lessons for their students. They want teachers to walk into their classroom each day with confidence, knowing that they have quality content to teach. They both received their master's degrees in secondary education and curriculum design from Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, California. Caitlin and Jessica currently reside in the Bay area with their families. I am so excited to have Caitlin talking about this really tough topic today, so let's get started with Caitlin. Caitlin, thank you so much for joining us on the educators 2 educators podcast. Caitlin (03:18): I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. Carrie (03:22): This is a long time in the making, don't you think? Caitlin (03:24): Oh yes, totally. We've been talking about it, I feel like for months. Caitlin (03:28): Yes. I'm so glad that you crossed my path. Gosh, it was last November was that November of 2018 that we first met. And you agreed to be a presenter in the first e2e New Year Reboot. And you've been in every conference since, so grateful that I have met you and that you're sharing your talents with the e2e teachers. Caitlin (03:48): Oh well thank you so much. The feeling is so mutual and I just think that what you are doing for teachers is incredible. Carrie (03:54): Well thank you. And today you are going to join us to talk about something that is so important, which is how to handle constructive criticism. Caitlin (04:03): Yes. And I know that's a hard topic for some people to even wrap their minds around talking about. Carrie (04:10): Well and I think a lot of it is because as teachers we put our heart and soul into the classroom and so it is hard sometimes to hear that maybe everything we're doing isn't perfect. Caitlin (04:22): Yes, it is very difficult. And I think that comes to absolutely with what you said, we put our heart and soul into what we're doing, but I just think it's not really a part of the profession in a way that we're being coached all the time. You know, like in other professions I'm talking, you know, NBA, MLB professional athletes have coaches every day teaching them how to get better. And I think that if that was what the educational world was like, that it was just kind of that same idea, it wouldn't be as big of a deal and it would be more commonplace obviously, to have people come into our classrooms and helping us get better and perfect our craft over time. So I think that that a lot of that comes because it's just not something that we have often, you know? Carrie (05:06): Yeah. Well it's interesting when I was going over our notes today, by the way, you guys, we always talk about, you know, three subtopics on ETV. I'm obsessed with the number three. So we're going to talk about 0.1 being being proactive as a teacher. A 0.2 is how to create a school culture where you know, it's a culture of growth. And then we're going to wrap up talking about changing our mindset as teachers. And while I was reading through your notes, Caitlin, I had this flashback to my first year of teaching in Chicago public schools. Can I take you back there? Caitlin (05:40): Yes, please. Carrie (05:41): Okay. So I was a career changer. So I was like 26 or 27 when I started teaching. So I had a little bit more of life under my belt and I had my principal come in for my first formal observation. And back then in CPS we were old school and we have these green binders. If anyone's taught in CPS, they're shaking their heads right now these green, binders and inside there were papers with these grids on them. And that's where you kept attendance. Okay. It was, it was the most complicated system I've ever seen. If a student was tardy, you put one slash if they were absent, there was two. Carrie (06:21): If they were excused, you put a dot. If it was unexcused, it was like circled in red and this is all paper and on and on.. So my principal comes in for my first observation, I'm a brand new teacher. I felt like I knocked it out of the park. What they used to do in observations is they wrote on this carbon copy paper and then they would leave the copy on your desk and walk out and leave. So I was so excited to finish my lesson. I walked over and I looked at the copy and I looked down and I had like excellent, excellent, excellent, excellent on everything except for at the very bottom it was checked like unsatisfactory,on attendance book. Caitlin (07:02): Oh my goodness. Carrie (07:03): And it said use black ink ALWAY. Caitlin (07:07): Oh my gosh. I just can't, that's whole, I'm sorry. That's a hilarious story. Carrie (07:14): That is the feedback. That is the only feedback that I got. And you know, I cried on my prep. Oh, I'm sure. I was like, Hey, I know you checked excellent on every other box. And this is like a first year teachers dream, but you only feedback you could take to write in black. It was like use black ink. So anyway, you, you having flashback, but I think you're going to give all of us some really good tips today about you know, how to handle constructive criticism. So let's talk about being proactive. Caitlin (07:49): Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so I wanna kind of just go back to what you just said that I think is important to preface the whole episode with is that even though we are going to be obviously observed by our admin, our principals, that observation is not the end all be all of everything. I know it goes into like a lot of our our files and you know, there are some issues around, you know Oh, I can't, I think of the word formal observations, right. You know, and in certain schools but I just want to tell teachers like it does not determine who you are and the type of teacher that you are. Just in the same way that our students test scores do not determine the type of student that our students are. We obviously know there's a much bigger picture behind each kid than the numbers show on a test. It's the same thing when it comes to observations. And I want to give you just really a quick story to that you just made me think of when I interviewed for my position at my most recent school, I did this great lesson on figurative language and same thing, Carrie. I was like, I fricking crushed that. Like I just did a great job, they're totally going to hire me, whatever. And so they hired me, everything was fine. And like two years later I was looking through my file and I found their observation notes from when I did my my gosh sample lesson with the students. Yes. I probably shouldn't have been able to come across it, but it was just in there and I got like bad scores on everything because I didn't say what the objective was. So the whole observation of me was supposed to be focused on me telling the kids what the objective of the lesson was. And because I didn't say that one thing, I got all of these bad marks yet, they still hired me. So it's like you know how they're OBS observing us in the, the criteria that they're observing us on doesn't necessarily mean that you're a good teacher or a bad teacher or any of the sort. Carrie (09:34): Right. Caitlin (09:35): Um it's just an observation. So I just want to preface it with that and I probably shouldn't have been allowed to find that piece of paper that showed all that information. But it's fine to show. It just goes to show like it's one person's opinion. Right, exactly. It's so subjective. And I even went up to my principal afterwards and I was like, really? This is what you guys said about me. You didn't say all of the other amazing things about me cause I had a great relationship with him. He's like, you shouldn't be seeing that. But it was pretty funny. So I just want to preface it with that. Like an observation does not mean that you are a bad teacher or a good teacher. It is one glimpse into who you are as a teacher. Carrie (10:13): Yup, absolutely. So with that being said, we'll start with point number one and that's really, I think it helps a lot to be proactive in building this relationship with your principal, with your colleagues, of people coming into your classroom all the time. Caitlin (10:27): So I think it's really important for you to go out or for us as teachers to go out and ask for feedback before we have that formal observation. So it can be something as simple as just like taking matters into your own hand, going into your principal's office and saying, Hey, I have this great lesson I love for you to come observe me. Let me know your thoughts, any feedback that you have. And what's great about doing that and being proactive is that you are the one who is kind of in control of this situation, right? You're the one asking for an eliciting feedback from your principal. And so I think that that's really helpful because it puts us into this positive mindset of, okay, I'm asking for feedback, I'm asking for criticism as opposed to I have to receive feedback, I have to receive criticism. Carrie (11:14): So that point of being proactive I think is very, very important. I love that so much. And I love the idea even thinking about when I was managing teams, when I worked in ed tech, like I was the boss. Sometimes I can't believe I led people in that way. But anyway I had really good relationships with my managers and sometimes when they would say to me, Hey, like how am I doing in general? I would say sometimes that's hard for me to give you this big broad feedback. What do you want to improve on? What do you want me to look for? What are you feeling insecure about so that I can help you in a better way. And so that is the same I think for when you're being proactive with a principal or an assistant principal and saying, Hey, I would love for you to come in and I've really been working on, you know, flexible seating or grouping or I don't know, whatever it is you can work on. Like give them something specific to come in and look at. Caitlin (12:16): Yes. And I think Carrie, I'm so glad that you said that cause that kind of builds onto the other point I want to talk about about being proactive is that yes you can start with like an a lesson that you're really comfortable with. So I might have my principal come in and observe me teaching a writing lesson that I just know I'm going to knock it out of the park. Right. And then when I ask them to come back in a second time, I can ask them like, Hey, I'm really struggling with this student's behavior. Can you come in and watch this student in class? Let me know. Like what would you do? Like what are some suggestions that you have to help me with this student? So, you know, you can ask them for assistance in behavioral issues. Carrie (12:52): In, in things like you're saying, a flexible seating or content specific if your principal is, you know, has that experience with the content that you're teaching. Caitlin (13:01): Um so asking them, yes, Carrie for specific feedback on certain things that you are struggling with shows initiative. It shows that you care. It shows that you want to get better. And honestly, if I was a principal I would be like, yes, I'm going to help you. Like the, you know, this is a stellar, a teacher right here who obviously wants to improve their craft. I'm going to do everything that I can to support you. Unfortunately, that's not the case for every teacher out there. I wish it was, but I think that it says a lot about you as a teacher taking that initiative to get better and improve your craft. Yeah. And principals have very stressful jobs. Yes. I would never want to be a principal. Carrie (13:36): You can kind of tug at their teacher heart, you know? Can you, I know you like, you are so amazing at this. When you were in the classroom or I've heard you are really strong at this tug at that teacher heart for them and get them back in the classroom because they want more of that. Totally force them to take that stuff. Caitlin (13:52): Yes, yes. The culture of growth for adults. We talk about this all the time about our kids growth mindset. What is it to have a culture of growth at your school? What does that look like? So this was really cool at my, not my most recent school, but one of the schools that I taught at prior when I was in Los Angeles, it's actually the school where I met Jessica, who? Jessica, who, those of you who don't know as the other half of the academics, we have middle school English language arts teacher resources and things like that. Caitlin (14:21): So this is where I met Jessica at this school in LA and one of the years that we were there, our principal decided that, you know, he was going to come into our classrooms a lot more often. He wasn't just going to come in for formal observations. He came into our classrooms, you know, every other week, just sat for 10, 15 minutes, interacted with the kids, participated in the lesson with us. And it took a lot of pressure off of the times when he did come in to do the formal observation. So that was one part of the puzzle like that our…
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