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Documentary First

The craft and business of documentary filmmaking, from people who actually do it.

Documentary First is a weekly podcast for working and aspiring documentary filmmakers who want honest, in-depth conversations about how documentaries get funded, made, and seen. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5 percent of all podcasts worldwide.

Hosted by Christian Taylor, award-winning director of The Girl Who Wore Freedom (25+ international awards, distributed through Virgil Films, Swank, and Canal+), the show draws on 295+ conversations with documentary filmmakers, editors, producers, distributors, and composers across HBO, Netflix, PBS, and the independent doc world. Past guests include Ken Burns, PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy, Emmy and Peabody Award-winning editor Charles Olivier (HBO’s The Jinx, The Redeem Team), and Emmy-nominated director Nick Bruckman (Netflix’s Minted).

Every week, Documentary First delivers two formats in one feed. The main show is a long-form interview about how filmmakers approach their craft, handle distribution, and build a career that lasts. On alternating weeks, Documentary First: The Deep Dive takes a single insight from a recent guest conversation and goes further, drawing on psychology, philosophy, and hard-won experience to find the lesson underneath the work.

Christian hosts from inside the work, not from the sidelines. She has films in production right now, so she asks the questions a working documentary filmmaker actually needs answered, because she needs them answered too.

Topics include: documentary directing, documentary producing, documentary distribution, film festival strategy, fundraising for documentaries, storytelling craft, documentary cinematography, documentary editing, film music and scoring, sound design for film, entertainment law for filmmakers, archival footage and rights clearance, and building a sustainable career in nonfiction filmmaking.

New episodes every week. Subscribe and leave a review.

Instagram: @documentaryfirst | Facebook: @documentaryfirst | X: @Doc_First | TikTok: @documentaryfirst | YouTube: @DocumentaryFirst | LinkedIn: documentaryfirst | documentaryfirst.com

Copyright: © Documentary First, all rights reserved.

Latest Episodes:

Episode 211 | Nick Bruckman - Not Going Quietly Nov 23, 2023

Show notes

In this compelling episode of Documentary First, Christian engages in a candid and profound conversation with acclaimed documentary filmmaker Nick Bruckman. The spotlight is on Bruckman's recently released film, "Not Going Quietly," a poignant exploration of resilience featuring the inspiring Ady Barkan. The duo delves into the raw and transparent process of making the film, unraveling the intricate threads of Nick's personal journey into filmmaking, shaped by a family legacy rooted in social advocacy and disability activism.

The discussion spans the breadth and depth of "Not Going Quietly," offering insights into Nick's profound connection with Ady Barkan and his family, as well as the transformative impact of bringing this powerful feature to life. As the conversation unfolds, Nick also gives a sneak peek into another upcoming project, "Minted," a documentary delving into the fascinating world of NFTs.

Beyond the creative process, the episode ventures into the pragmatic realms of budgeting and distribution, shedding light on the challenges and triumphs of filmmaking. Nick shares invaluable advice for aspiring filmmakers, emphasizing the importance of carving out a niche and identifying a marketable skill within the industry to provide income stability.

Brimming with wisdom and practical insights, this episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about the art of documentary filmmaking. Plus, for our Patreon supporters, there's an exclusive extra with Nick where he shares what it’s like to work with Bradly Whitford and The Duplass Brothers! As the episode concludes, the anticipation lingers for future conversations with Nick Bruckman, promising even more captivating discussions on the horizon.

Timecodes

Documentary filmmaking with Nick Brockman. 0:00
The impact of Ady Barkan and “Not Going Quietly” 3:23
Healthcare activism and personal stories. 8:57
Empathy and connection through documentary filmmaking with Ady. 13:46
Personal experiences with healthcare challenges. 18:07
How did this story come to Nick and how it evolved from a short YouTube promo to a Feature. 24:03
Budget and distribution thoughts. 30:24
“Minted” - All about NFTs and their impact on society. 35:21
Nick’s brief story of getting into filmmaking and advice to filmmakers. 40:44

*No Docuview DéjàVu this week.

Nick Bruckman's websites:

https://nickny.com/

https://peoples.tv/

Episode 210 | Gail Gilbert - Puppy Love Nov 09, 2023

Show notes

In this week's episode of Documentary First, we dive into the heartwarming tale of "Puppy Love," a documentary chronicling the incredible journey of four paralyzed puppies on the road to recovery.

What began as Gail's casual filming of her new puppy's antics took an unexpected turn when the pup faced paralysis. This documentary captures the tireless efforts to help the puppies heal, with a diverse team of camera operators capturing every moment. Gail's meticulous editing, guided by screenwriting principles, resulted in a 76-minute emotional rollercoaster that has left audiences laughing and in tears.

This project was a labor of love, with volunteers pouring their time and resources into rescuing dogs in need. Remarkably, the production costs stayed under $15,000, thanks to the dedication of everyone involved.

The film sheds light on the vital role of raw food company Darwin's, whose sponsorship was born out of a positive impact on one of the featured dogs. Their collaboration is a testament to the potential positive change that can come from these stories.

Gail shares valuable lessons for aspiring filmmakers, stressing the importance of dedication, consistency, and never deleting footage or audio. She also highlights the significance of media training and the stark contrast it made in her PR efforts.

With recent release on streaming platforms, Gail looks forward to future screenings, including a dream showing at the Museum of the Dog in NYC. She and Christian discuss the distribution process, expressing gratitude for the support from Documentary First and underlining the crucial role of a strong distributor relationship in successful film promotion.

In the end, "Puppy Love" stands as a powerful testament to the lengths individuals will go to save an animal, showcasing the enduring power of perseverance, sacrifice, and the bond between humans and animals. Gail's insights into production challenges, collaborative efforts, and future plans for the film offer a captivating glimpse into the world behind this heartwarming documentary.

In "Puppy Love" the dogs are put on a raw diet to help with their recovery. It was so successful that they continue eating raw today. Some dogs eat home made raw food and others eat food from Darwin's Natural Pet Products. https://www.darwinspet.com

‌DocuView Déjà Vu:

Gail: The Pigeon Tunnel, 2023, 92 mins, Watch on Apple TV+, IMDB Link:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt28486633/?ref_=ext_shr

The Deepest Breath, 2023, 108 mins, Watch on Netflix, IMDB Link;

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt24132732/?ref_=ext_shr

Timecodes:

Filmmaking journey and first feature film. 0:00

Documentary filmmaking and puppy paralysis. 1:46

Filmmaking and storytelling techniques. 7:45

A heartwarming dog rescue story. 12:29

Film distribution and festival run. 17:03

Tips and challenges. 21:31

Sponsorship, budget, and dog health in a documentary. 27:02

Filmmaking costs and distribution. 31:13

Filmmaking and editing & DocuView Déjà Vu. 36:17

Media training. 40:09

Episode 209 | What's Your Focus? w/ Ken Burns - The American Buffalo (Part 2 of 2) Oct 26, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back to another exciting week of Documentary First. In part two of our conversation with documentary legend, Ken Burns, we dive into the vital aspect of collaboration in filmmaking. Ken emphasizes the profound history he shares with two of his current collaborators, who are stepping into new endeavors as his company continues it’s storytelling journey. Drawing an analogy to a conductor orchestrating a musical ensemble, Ken underscores the significance of every individual involved in the filmmaking process. While he acknowledges a roster of long-term collaborators, he underscores a core group of key individuals.

Ken's distinctive approach to documentary filmmaking involves eschewing rigid timelines, allowing stories to organically evolve. His mission is to craft narratives of depth and richness, achieved through meticulous research. This ethos means that he and his team are in a perpetual state of pre-production, research, and filming until each project reaches its fullest potential.

The conversation pivots towards a statement Ken makes, likening their approach to recording music prior to editing, wherein the music itself dictates the pace and rhythm, rather than being an added layer. Christian seizes this moment to dissect this invaluable nugget of wisdom, highlighting its transformative impact on Ken's filmmaking process.

Ken provides illuminating examples of projects where this technique has been applied, emphasizing the primacy of musical integrity. For Christian, this revelation resonates deeply, affirming the choices made while creating "The Girl Who Wore Freedom," a project inspired by Ken's storytelling prowess. Their discussion evolves from music to the integration of sound effects, breathing life into static images.

Ken imparts a powerful philosophy: "there's no copyright on technique. There's no copyright on the stuff that we use, there's no copyright even on style," underscoring the open, collaborative nature of the creative process.

Yet, even with this rich discussion, we've merely scratched the surface of Ken Burns' intricate filmmaking methodology. In our segment, DocuView Déjà Vu, Ken offers some film recommendations, with Christian guiding him to two standout selections—one from the past and one from the present.

In this episode, we also introduce one of Ken’s latest endeavors, "Unum," a unique tool any filmmaker can use as a research tool for their own works or for the public to learn more about historical stories his company has worked to unveil and place into context. Unum can be explored further on his webpage at: Ken Burns UNUM

DocuView Déjà Vu Recommendations:

Ken: (OLD) The Night Mail, 1936, 25mins, Short Documentary, IMDB Link:

Night Mail (1936) - IMDb

(NEW) Hollow Tree by Kira Ackerman - Link:

Hollow Tree — Hollow Tree (2022) - IMDb

Christian: The Roosevelts: An Intimate History, IMDB Link:

The Roosevelts: An Intimate History (TV Mini Series 2014) ⭐ 8.8 | Documentary, Biography, History

Jason: The American Buffalo, Link:

Watch The American Buffalo | A New Documentary from Ken Burns | PBS

Timecodes:

Filmmaking team and collaboration. 0:00
Filmmaking techniques, scoring and music integration. 4:41
Sound Design & Narration to tell historical stories. 11:44
DocuView Déjà Vu Segment and then some. 19:16

Episode 208 | What’s Your Focus? w/ Ken Burns - The American Buffalo (Part 1 of 2) Oct 15, 2023

Show notes

Today, we are honored to host a distinguished figure in the realm of filmmaking, none other than the renowned Ken Burns. With profound admiration for his craft, Christian finds it hard to articulate just how deeply grateful she is for the wisdom and insights Mr. Burns brings to the art of documentary filmmaking.

Our conversation with Ken traverses his illustrious journey, commencing with his ability to channel early setbacks into the driving force behind his enduring success. As a producer, Ken's knack for tackling multifaceted challenges is nothing short of extraordinary, guided by a unique perspective that sets him apart in the industry. Above all, we uncover the power of tenacity, of consistently placing one foot in front of the other.

Delving into the roots of Ken's storytelling prowess, we learn of the profound influence his first family experiences had on him, igniting a passion that would define his career. Ken's remarkable talent lies in his ability to weave expansive narratives into profoundly personal experiences. He also shares a poignant moment with his father-in-law, who posed the thought-provoking question: "Who are you trying to wake up?"

Ken's fascination with the resurrection of history through storytelling comes to the forefront, demonstrating his mastery in infusing emotion to enrapture audiences. With generosity, he provides vivid examples of this craft, drawing from a wellspring of experiences that run deep. This vulnerability, Ken eloquently describes as a form of "emotional archaeology."

A privileged glimpse into Ken's latest endeavor awaits, set to grace screens on October 16 & 17 - "The American Buffalo." He graciously unveils the journey, the meticulous creative process, and the profound emotional investment behind this expansive series. Through his work, Ken not only urges us to connect with the human story but also implores us to unearth our best selves and take meaningful action.

With so much more to uncover in this enlightening conversation, we'll take a momentary pause. Join us in our next episode as we continue our exploration of the wisdom and insights of this extraordinary filmmaker.

While this episode won't feature our DocuView Déjà Vu segment, rest assured, it will make a triumphant return in our next installment.

‌Timecodes:

(00:27) - Ken’s (shortened:) BIO

(04:17) - Producers are problem solvers

(07:07) - How Ken’s origin story influences his work.

(11:40) Resurrecting the past in story telling and using emotion to engage the audience.

(16:32) Vulnerability in storytelling is emotional archeology.

(18:14) - “The American Buffalo” Story

(33:22) - Closing remarks - Stay tuned for the next episode.

#TheAmericanBuffaloPBS https://kenburns.com/films/the-american-buffalo/

Episode 207 | Mastering Film Promotion with Andrew Cohen, A Guide for Filmmakers Oct 12, 2023

Show notes

Welcome back, listeners, to another insightful episode of Documentary First! Today, we’re thrilled to have Andrew Cohen, a seasoned expert from Impact 24 PR, back with us. In this installment, we’re diving deep into the world of film promotion, and how filmmakers can truly make their mark with the help of a skilled PR company or publicist.

Andrew shares invaluable insights on two fundamental PR principles that every filmmaker should embrace. First and foremost, the importance of kicking off your promotional efforts early, right from the pre-production phase. And secondly, the power of documenting your creative journey. Throughout the episode, Andrew takes us through what these principles look like in action, and the incredible benefits they bring to any project.

Christian also lends her own experiences and successes with these principles, shedding light on how she’s integrated them into her own endeavors. But that’s not all! Christian opens up about her initial challenges with her first publicist, and probes Andrew on the crucial factors to consider when seeking the perfect fit.

Andrew offers invaluable advice on how the landscape of PR is evolving and emphasizes the need for adaptability and realistic expectations. And as always, he reminds us that networking remains paramount in finding that ideal PR partner.

But wait there’s more! Fresh from the bustling scene of the Toronto International Film Festival (TIFF), Andrew shares his recent experiences and the exciting trends he observed. To cap it off, Christian puts Andrew on the spot, asking him to unveil his Top 5 Film Festivals that every filmmaker should have on their radar, whether they’ve submitted a film or not. So, grab your notebooks, folks, because today’s episode is packed with actionable strategies and insider tips to elevate your film’s promotional game. Let’s get started!

‌Timecodes:

Part 2 – Conversation with Andrew Cohen. 0:00
How can filmmakers up their game? 3:48
How to get the best from hiring the right publicist or PR company? 7:58
Film festivals and networking. 15:36
DocuView Déjà Vu Segment. 23:01
Last Thoughts from Andrew 27:31

DocuView Déjà Vu Recommendations:

Andrew: Gimme Shelter, 1970, GP, 91 mins, Prime, IMBD Link:

Gimme Shelter (1970) ⭐ 7.8 | Documentary, Music, Thriller

Josh: Full Swing, 2023 – Series, Netflix, IMDB Link:

Full Swing (TV Series 2023– ) ⭐ 8.0 | Documentary, Sport

Christian: Spy OPS, 2023 – Series, Netflix, IMDB Link:

Spy Ops (TV Series 2023– ) ⭐ 6.2 | Documentary

Andrew Cohen Socials:

Email: info@impact24pr.com

Website: Impact24 Public Relations

Instagram: @‌ansecoh

Twitter: @‌ascohenpr

Episode 206 | Andrew Cohen of Impact24 (Part 1), Do You Need a Publicist? Sep 28, 2023

Show notes

Get ready for an episode packed with surprises! First up, our beloved former host, Josh Lindsay, makes a triumphant return, stepping in for Jason Rugg. His presence adds a special spark to today's show. And that's not all - we're also joined by the PR powerhouse, Andrew Seth Cohen from "Impact 24 PR."

Discover how Andrew and Christian's paths converged when "Impact 24 PR" extended a helping hand to Documentary First during their electrifying "Emmy" run. Christian's excitement knows no bounds, thanks to the stellar filmmakers that "Impact 24 PR" has introduced to our audience.

For filmmakers, navigating the realm of publicists and PR can feel like a mystifying maze. That's precisely why Andrew's insights are invaluable. Beyond his PR wizardry, Andrew is a seasoned animator, adding another layer to his creative repertoire.

In this episode, Andrew unveils his deep-seated passion for storytelling and filmmaking, revealing how it seamlessly melded with his role as a PR specialist. He spills the beans on his strategies for propelling films into the Emmy spotlight.

We wrap things up with a cliffhanger! What are the common missteps filmmakers make in their PR journey, whether they're teaming up with a publicist or going solo? The answer lies in our next episode, so be sure to tune in!

‌Timecodes:

Introduction to Andrew Seth Cohen and his story 00.00
Emmy campaign strategies for filmmakers. 9:33
Filmmaking, awards, budget and PR strategies. 14:01
DocuView Déjà Vu Segment. 19:05

‌

DocuView Déjà Vu Recommendation links:

Andrew: The Two Escobars, 2010, 104mins, ESPN 30 for 30 or Disney+, IMDB Link: The Two Escobars (2010) ⭐ 8.1 | Documentary, Biography, Sport

Josh: Quarterback, 2023, Series, Netflix, IMDB Link: Quarterback (TV Series 2023– ) ⭐ 8.1 | Documentary, Sport

Christian: “Ganz normale Manner - Der vergessene Holocaust” (Ordinary Men), 2022, 58mins, Netflix, IMDB Link: Ganz normale Männer - Der 'vergessene Holocaust' (TV Movie 2022) ⭐ 7.0 | Documentary, History, War

Episode 205 | Nicolás Humberto Repetto Composer for "A Run for More" Sep 14, 2023

Show notes

This week, embark on a musical journey with Nicolas Humberto Repetto, a composer whose roots trace back to Argentina before finding a new home in sunny Florida at the tender age of five. His enchantment with music, especially the violin, as well as his gift for composition and orchestration, bloomed during his formative middle school years.

The intoxicating harmonies of triumph and the seductive allure of composition and orchestration beckoned Nicolas to the sprawling landscapes of LA. Here, he delved deeper into his passion for film scoring, skillfully merging it with cutting-edge technology.

Discover the riveting tale of how Nicolás Humberto Repetto sculpted the original score for a new feature documentary, “A Run for More,” which made it’s debut on Apple Music, May 3, 2023, followed by a widespread digital release. This cinematic masterpiece, directed by Pulitzer Prize-winner, Ray Whitehouse, unravels the compelling narrative of Frankie Gonzales-Wolfe—a transgender luminary vying for a seat in the San Antonio city council.

Join Christian and Jason as they dive into Nicolas’ creative process and unravel the pivotal dynamic between Director and Composer. Hear the invaluable lessons gleaned from the crucible of experience, exploring the art of scoring on a budget and the exhilaration of orchestrating with a full-fledged symphony.

Peek behind the curtains of the human psyche, discovering the interplay of emotions and music, and delve into the subtle “psychology” that underpins collaborative artistry.

As tradition dictates, we conclude this week’s “composition” with DocuView Déjà Vu, coupled with a succinct company update.

Timecodes:

• Introduction to Nicolás Repetto. 0:00

• **How did you become interested in music?** 2:47

• Films Nicolas has worked on and what work he is most proud of. 7:20

• How “A Run for More” came to be and Nicolas’ process in working on the score 12:39

• Defining some music terminology. 18:52

• **The Composer / Director Relationship and the importance of chemistry.** 24:03

• Words of advice and lessons learned. 33:55

• What Nicolas is most proud of in “A Run for More”? 39:44

• DocuView Déjà Vu 40:50

Related Links:

"A Run For More" Documentary: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt20562778/

Hollywood scores and soundtracks. What do they sound like by Every Frame a Painting: https://youtu.be/IEfQ_9DIItI

No Film School website: https://nofilmschool.com/

No Film School article: https://nofilmschool.com/composer-collaboration

DocuView Déjà Vu:

Nicolas: The Sound of Identity, 2020, 90 mins, Freevee/The Roku Channel/Prime, IMDB Link: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10156584/

Rock Hudson: All That Heaven Allowed, 2023, 104mins, Max / Prime, IMDB Link: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13514636

Christian: Bombshell: The Hedy Lamarr Story, 2017, 88mins, Netflix / Prime, IMDB Link: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt6752848/

Episode 204 | Heartfelt Journey, Filmmaker's Healing with Craig Renaud Aug 31, 2023

Show notes

Get ready for an emotional and captivating journey in this week's episode of Documentary First. Join hosts Christian and Jason as they dive deep into an heartfelt conversation with none other than Craig Renaud, an acclaimed Peabody award-winning filmmaker. Brace yourself for a raw and touching exchange as Craig opens up about his personal connection to his latest project "SOUTHERN STORYTELLERS."

Venture into the world of "SOUTHERN STORYTELLERS," a mesmerizing three-part miniseries that escorts you into the heart of the American South. Craig Renaud, known for his prowess in bringing compelling stories to life, introduces us to some of the region's most influential creators. Through his lens, we get to journey alongside these remarkable individuals and explore the very essence of the places they call home.

But this isn't just any project for Craig – it's a poignant departure from his norm. For the first time, he's embarking on a creative endeavor without his brother and longtime collaborator, Brent. The bond between these two was unbreakable, forged through countless shared experiences. As Craig delves into their gripping journey, he recounts their early days of covering global conflicts and reveals the heart-wrenching truth about Brent, the first American journalist tragically lost in the turmoil of Ukraine in 2022.

The conversation delves even deeper into Craig's creative process, unveiling the intricate threads that weave his documentaries into compelling narratives. Tune in as he shares the intimate details of how "SOUTHERN STORYTELLERS" emerged from his own healing journey – a project that became more than just a film, but a means to cope with loss.

But that's not all – hear exclusive insights into Craig's upcoming projects, including a touching tribute to his brother Brent. Amidst the anecdotes and industry wisdom, Craig reminds us that mistakes are an inevitable part of the creative process and offers a powerful dose of encouragement for those who might be on the brink of giving up.

Of course, no episode of Documentary First is complete without our DocuView Déjà Vu segment, offering a fresh perspective on past gems. Plus, Christian provides a company update and a sneak peek into what's on the horizon – a future episode featuring Craig, where he unravels the challenges faced by independent filmmakers striving to carve a niche and make their mark. Learn firsthand the art of collaborating with PBS, especially when it comes to showcasing the magic of documentary films.

Don't miss this chance to embark on an emotional rollercoaster, as Craig Renaud's story resonates deeply and reminds us of the power of storytelling, healing, and the unbreakable bonds that shape our lives. Tune in now!

Timecodes:

Introduction to Craig Renaud. 0:00
Working with his brother Brent Renaud & John Alpert. 1:47
How to make peace with the loss. 8:43
The process of doing a documentary without Brent. 12:19
Getting to know them as people. 20:37
Sticking to the story and not the story. 28:55
Finding archival footage for the film. 33:31
Getting comfortable with making mistakes. 40:17
DocuView Déjà Vu 42:44

Craig: Summer of Soul, 2021, PG-13, Hulu / Prime Video, 118mins, IMDB Link: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11422728/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Christian: Mercury 13, 2018, 78 mins, Netflix, IMDB Link: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8139850/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_7_nm_1_q_mercury%252013

Jason: “Master Cinematographer Conrad Hall, ASC talk cinematography” , 124mins, Youtube Link: Master Cinematographer CONRAD HALL ASC Talks Cinematography

Christian’s Company update. 47:42

Find more information about Brent and his work and mentoring, including his foundation and mentorship, below on the websites.

http://BrentRenaudFoundation.org

link: HOME | Renaud B Redesign

Episode 203 | Prehistoric Planet 2 with Anže Rozman and Kara Talve Aug 17, 2023

Show notes

Get ready for a riveting ride in this week's podcast episode as we delve into the mesmerizing world of original music. Hosts Christian and Jason are joined by two master composers who are also part of the remarkable music collective, Bleeding Fingers Music. Hold on to your headphones, because these composers, Kara Talve and Anže Rozman, aren't just any ordinary talents – they're the musical maestros mentored by none other than the legendary Hans Zimmer himself!

Listen to Kara and Anže discuss their inspiring symphony (no pun intended) of passion for music and film composition. Prepare to be get a little jealous as they recount the incredible privilege of being under the tutelage of Hans Zimmer. But brace yourselves for more than just a walk past memory lane; They experimented with musical instruments never invented before on their latest masterpiece, Pre-Historic Planet II.

But wait, there's a plot twist! The second half of the episode takes an unexpected turn with Christian's overdue update. Picture this: a double screening extravaganza in the vibrant setting of Ormond Beach, Florida, coupled with a serendipitous encounter with new friend, Michelle.

Then, get ready to time-travel as Christian recounts her captivating journey to Fort Campbell, KY. She unearthed treasures hidden deep within the WWII archives at the Pratt Museum that will breathe life into the "Heroes of Carentan" project. Feel the surge of excitement as Christian and Zach Callaghan craft this narrative masterpiece over the upcoming weeks.

Tune in now to experience the crescendo of creativity, mentorship, musical marvels, unexpected encounters, and the forging of epic historical tales.

Timecodes:

Introduction of our guests. 0:00
- Prehistoric Planet is available on Apple TV.
- Some of the credits are incredible, including BBC's "The Universe, and the Planets" and IMAX feature "The Great Bear Rainforest" (co-composed with Hans Zimmer), and the opening title music for "Frozen Planet II."
- Kara Talve has worked on Prehistoric Planet alongside Hans Zimmer and is principal composer on "The Simpsons."
Kara and Anže’s background. 4:15
Creative process for prehistoric music. 12:50
- The creative process for the Prehistoric Planet series and how it was different from the rest of the series.
- The idea of making instruments out of fossil materials.
- The last instrument built for season two is the "Tricera-tone," built out of a metal triceratops fossil replica with a double bass neck.
Nominated for an Emmy. 16:59
- Kara talks about being nominated for an Emmy and how she was shocked and honored to be nominated by her peers.
- Kara recommends "The Staircase" on Netflix which is about the murder trial of Michael Peterson in the mid 2000s.
- Anze recommends "Ancient Apocalypse" on Netflix which is a docu-series about the theory of civilizations during the Ice Age.
Advice. 20:55
- Anze’s advice on how to make a career in Los Angeles, and why passion is the most important thing to note in any field.
- Kara's last parting word of advice: Be personable.
Documentary First company update. 24:55
- Company update, “The Girl Who Wore Freedom” screening in Ormond Beach, Florida at a museum.
Fort Campbell, Kentucky. 30:19
- Christian went to Fort Campbell, Kentucky to do more research at the Pratt museum and met her new hero, Pat Seeling, who is the historian at the Pratt Museum.
- A motherload of information useful for Doc First's next project , including a book from one of the heroes of the movie.
- DocuView Déjà Vu Recommendation from Christian is “The Changing Hollywood Landscape” podcast.
Key takeaways from the strike. 35:35
- Companies like Disney, Amazon and Apple are not in the business of entertainment. They are in the business of advertising and selling things, solely focusing on continuing to make money.
- Matt Damon and Ben Affleck's new production company, Equity Filmmaking, is trying to see if there is a new model.
- The movie Oppenheimer is a must-see in theatres.

DocuView Déjà Vu Recommendations

Kara Talve: The Staircase 2004, Netflix, IMDB Link:

The Staircase (TV Mini Series 2004–2018) ⭐ 7.8 | Documentary, Crime, Drama

Anze Rozman: Ancient Apocalypse, 2002, Netflix, IMDB Link:

Ancient Apocalypse (TV Series 2022– ) ⭐ 7.3 | Documentary, History, Sci-Fi

Christian: A podcast on Fresh Air at NPR, with Terry Gross and Lucas Shaw of Bloomberg called “The Changing Hollywood Landscape”

The Changing Hollywood Landscape : Fresh Air

Episode 202 | Human Footprint - Part 2 Aug 03, 2023

Show notes

In part 2 of “Human Footprint” Christian and Jason continue their chat with the creators and directors of Human Footprint, Neil Losin & Nate Dappen.

Listen to how Neil & Nate filmed the series on a budget, with a small crew of a maximum of 5 people. Hear some of their favorite experiences while grinding and pushing their team to the limit. Seeing elephants from a helicopter and people on dog sleds hunting Polar Bears are just two of the experiences that have marked their lives while making Human Footprint.

Music is key to setting the tone and emotion to visuals. We learn about their connection with PBS helping out with some of the licensing of the music used as well as how their “Hip-Hop” composer Andy Young came to be a part of the project.

To close, Neil & Nate gave their pearls of wisdom and pieces of advice to filmmakers. Along with Christian’s best reminder of not getting discouraged, don’t give up - DO NOT QUIT!!!

PBS Link: https://www.pbs.org/show/human-footprint/

Intro to Documentary First. 0:00
- Welcome back to Documentary First, continuing the conversation with Nate & Neil from Human Footprint.
- What was the budget and how was it used, travel and music?
Traveling for the show. 1:20
- A lot of travel for 120 days of filming.
- Shooting in 44 different cities, 80 beds, sets, states, Arctic Sea Ice.
- Shooting 4 different acts for 4 different episodes
- Allot of pre-production and research in preparation for all the travel.
- Starbucks budget larger than the actual food budget……
- Team of 5 people max. Pushing everyone to their limits.
- Shooting dogs, rats, starlings, cities and cities.
How they economized their travel costs. 5:47
- Listen to people and give them what they need.
- Learned to economize in various ways.
- Neil’s unique experience and favorite place
- The evolution of tusklessness and elephants.
- Flying over the park in a helicopter.
Nate’s most unique experience. 10:05
- Episode about how dogs have shaped culture.
- Unique experience in the Arctic with a young Inuit sled dog hunter.
- Arctic adventure. The sun doesn't set in the summer - losing track of time, skeleton crew, a wild experience even trying to get there.
Hunting polar bears on the sea ice. 12:44
- Polar bear hunting on the sea ice.
- The cinematography of the first episode.
- Three highly trained, highly skilled shooters on the project.
- A lot of collaboration and sponsorship from Canon with lenses to help bring cinema-level quality. Taking the visuals very seriously.
Intuitive filmmaking and music budget. 17:32
- Biology and natural history as a fact factor.
- Having veteran natural history shooters on the project.
- Music budget and getting the rights.
- Wanting a 90’s HipHop aesthetic - fresh and vibrant
- Using popular tracks and licensing them where possible.
- PBS has a special arrangement for music - “A compulsory license” - Nate & Neil explain.
- Distribution from PBS to elsewhere changes everything
- How much of the music is composed?
- How Adrian Young got involved in the project.
- How the music came together.
Creating a modern look and style. 24:41
- Creating a modern, modern feel for the series.
- Allowed each editor to show what they think it should look like.
- How Andy Laub became lead editor. Has an extensive back ground including music editing.
- How the editing style was developed for the show. A group brainstorming session to help guide this.
- A combination of the action sports, the traditional Natural History science world, mixed with modern social media type style
- Biggest challenge for Neil.
Knowing what’s enough in the episodes. 29:04
- Hardest thing for a series like this.
- Physical and emotional grind of filming.
- Striking a balance between documentary and information and not be “preachy'.
- DocuView Déjà Vu recommendations.
- 4 Recommendations one of which was “My Octopus Teacher” - recommended previously (See the other 3 recommendations listed below).
Advice for filmmakers. 34:12
- Neil & Nate's best piece of advice for new filmmakers.

DocuView Déjà Vu

Nate: 100 Foot Wave, Series 2021, HBOMax, IMDB Link: 100 Foot Wave (TV Series 2021– ) ⭐ 8.1 | Documentary, Sport

My Octopus Teacher, 2020, 85 mins, Netflix, IMDB Link: My Octopus Teacher (2020) ⭐ 8.1 | Documentary

Chimp Empire, S2023, Series, Netfilx, IMDB Link: Chimp Empire (TV Mini Series 2023) ⭐ 8.3 | Documentary

Jago: Alife Underwater, 2015, 48 mins, Watch on Amazon or Curiosity, IMDB Link: Jago: A Life Underwater (2015) ⭐ 7.4 | Documentary

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