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    Documentary First

    The craft and business of documentary filmmaking, from people who actually do it.

    Documentary First is a weekly podcast for working and aspiring documentary filmmakers who want honest, in-depth conversations about how documentaries get funded, made, and seen. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5 percent of all podcasts worldwide.

    Hosted by Christian Taylor, award-winning director of The Girl Who Wore Freedom (25+ international awards, distributed through Virgil Films, Swank, and Canal+), the show draws on 295+ conversations with documentary filmmakers, editors, producers, distributors, and composers across HBO, Netflix, PBS, and the independent doc world. Past guests include Ken Burns, PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy, Emmy and Peabody Award-winning editor Charles Olivier (HBO’s The Jinx, The Redeem Team), and Emmy-nominated director Nick Bruckman (Netflix’s Minted).

    Every week, Documentary First delivers two formats in one feed. The main show is a long-form interview about how filmmakers approach their craft, handle distribution, and build a career that lasts. On alternating weeks, Documentary First: The Deep Dive takes a single insight from a recent guest conversation and goes further, drawing on psychology, philosophy, and hard-won experience to find the lesson underneath the work.

    Christian hosts from inside the work, not from the sidelines. She has films in production right now, so she asks the questions a working documentary filmmaker actually needs answered, because she needs them answered too.

    Topics include: documentary directing, documentary producing, documentary distribution, film festival strategy, fundraising for documentaries, storytelling craft, documentary cinematography, documentary editing, film music and scoring, sound design for film, entertainment law for filmmakers, archival footage and rights clearance, and building a sustainable career in nonfiction filmmaking.

    New episodes every week. Subscribe and leave a review.

    Instagram: @documentaryfirst | Facebook: @documentaryfirst | X: @Doc_First | TikTok: @documentaryfirst | YouTube: @DocumentaryFirst | LinkedIn: documentaryfirst | documentaryfirst.com

    Advertise

    Copyright: © Documentary First, all rights reserved.

    • Apple Podcasts
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    Latest Episodes:
    Ep. 286 l How Do You Get a Documentary Made? Ask the Woman Who Co-Runs RKO Sep 10, 2026
    Show notes

    Do you have a documentary, or do you have a Wikipedia entry?

    Somebody decides whether your documentary gets made. Sophia Dilley is one of those people. She runs Concord Originals, the division behind Stax: Soulsville U.S.A. on HBO, and she is Co-President of RKO, which Concord bought in June 2025 along with more than 5,000 titles including King Kong, Citizen Kane and It's a Wonderful Life. In this episode she gives away the three questions she asks before her team commits to anything.

    In Episode 286, Christian sits down with Sophia Dilley, Executive Vice President of Concord Originals and Co-President of RKO, to talk about how a project gets chosen, how to reach out to someone far above you, and how music rights for film work when the budget you have is the only budget there is.

    The spine of the conversation is a question Dilley asks before her team commits to anything: is this a Wikipedia story we're telling? If the whole thing is already available in twelve seconds of searching, there may not be a film in it. Around that sit her two other threshold questions, a working answer to why the documentary business feels impossible right now, and the plainest reassurance in the episode. "It's scary," she says. "It's scary for everybody." Along the way: a punk band that played CBGB's, a production designer father who left for set at four forty-five in the morning, Roger Deakins as a case study in how to write to someone you admire, and the difference between distribution rights and derivative rights, which is the thing almost everyone (Including Christian!) got wrong about the RKO deal. If you have ever been told that music rights for film are impossible on an independent budget, she has a different answer.

    In this episode, you'll learn:

    • What Concord actually acquired when it bought RKO, and why distribution rights and derivative rights are two entirely different things
    • The three questions Sophia Dilley asks before committing to any story
    • How to tell whether you have a film or a Wikipedia entry
    • The difference between sync and publishing, and why one song can mean two negotiations with two different companies
    • What to say to a music company when the budget you have is the only budget there is
    • Why a music documentary takes five years on average, and what eats the time
    • Why a rejection is usually about the marketplace rather than about your film
    • How to open a door with someone you admire without being, in her words, a scary, creepy fan
    • What it looks like inside a company that generates most of its projects out of its own catalog

    CHAPTERS

    0:00 What Concord Actually Bought With RKO

    5:34 From CBGB's to Running a Studio Division

    11:42 Reaching Out to People Above You

    16:32 Why Distribution Is Scary for Everybody

    21:26 Who Are You Really Competing With?

    26:02 Music Rights for Film: Sync and Publishing

    29:49 Why a Doc Takes Five Years

    34:54 How Does She Decide What Gets Made?

    41:44 Women, Allies, and Your Replacement

    46:05 What if You Can't Afford the Song?

    50:05 Closing Argument and DocuView Deja Vu

    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

    How do you get music rights for a documentary?

    You need permission from more than one owner. The song belongs to a publisher and the specific recording belongs to a label, so most documentaries need both a sync license and a master use license. On Stax: Soulsville U.S.A., that meant clearing more than thirty artists, multiple publishers and several estates. Concord Originals EVP Sophia Dilley says the first step is acknowledging you need those rights before you build the film around them.

    What if I can't afford to license a song for my film?

    Call anyway, and be honest about the budget. Sophia Dilley advises independent filmmakers to say who they are, name what the film was made for, show the actual scene the song would sit under, and ask directly for help. "Behind every door at every music company, there are real people," she says. A studio with a real budget cannot use that approach. A genuine independent often can.

    How long does it take to make a music documentary?

    Longer than most filmmakers expect. Sophia Dilley of Concord Originals puts the average at five years, at least. Stax: Soulsville U.S.A. began in 2018, when a colleague walked into her office with the story, and premiered on HBO in May 2024. Much of that time goes to music rights, estates and publishers rather than to production, because every stakeholder connected to the music has to be brought on side first.

    Who owns RKO now?

    Concord Originals acquired RKO Pictures in June 2025, but the deal is narrower than it sounds. Distribution rights to the classic RKO library remain with Turner. What Concord bought are the derivative rights, meaning remakes, sequels, prequels, story and stage rights to more than 5,000 titles the studio produced in-house. Sophia Dilley serves as Co-President of RKO, which continues to operate under Concord Originals.

    DOCUVIEW DEJA VU PICKS

    Sophia Dilley's picks:

    • [New York Doll](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0436629/) (2005), directed by Greg Whiteley. A deep cut about Arthur "Killer" Kane of the New York Dolls and his search for his own history. Dilley notes that Whiteley went on to make Cheer, and the warmth is already here.
    • [Science Fair](https://films.nationalgeographic.com/science-fair) (2018), directed by Cristina Costantini and Darren Foster. She saw it at SXSW, where it won the Audience Award. Teenagers at the international science fair, and, in her words, so much magic in following a real human story.

    SPONSORED BY

    This episode is brought to you by [Virgil Films Entertainment.](https://virgilfilms.com/) Over 25 years of distribution experience, from Super Size Me and the Oscar-nominated Restrepo to Forks Over Knives and Speed is Expensive. If you are a filmmaker having trouble with distribution, talk to Virgil.

    LISTEN AND FOLLOW

    Listen on any podcast app: https://pod.fo/e/5ffe38

    Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

    Support the show on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

    CONNECT

    Documentary First on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

    Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

    ABOUT THE GUEST

    [Sophia Dilley](https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophia-dilley-32098612/) is Executive Vice President of Concord Originals and Co-President of RKO. Concord hired her in 2018 to build a content strategy, and in 2021 she launched Concord Originals, the company's film and television division. Her father was a production designer, so she grew up on movie sets watching what the work actually costs. Before film, she thought she would go into music: piano, violin, voice lessons, and a punk band in high school that played CBGB's in New York.

    ABOUT CONCORD ORIGINALS

    [Concord Originals](https://concord.com/originals/) is the film and television arm of Concord, developing screen stories out of one of the largest independent music and theatrical catalogs in the world. Most of its projects are self-generated, which Dilley describes as the division's whole remit: take what is already under the roof and find a new life for it. Because the catalog is the source, music rights for film sit at the center of nearly every project the division takes on.

    Recent and upcoming work discussed in this episode:

    • [Stax: Soulsville U.S.A.](https://staxrecords.com/news/stax-soulsville-usa-hbo-original-series/) (HBO, 2024), the four-part series directed by Jamila Wignot. Peabody winner, nominated for two Emmys.
    • [Billy Preston: That's the Way God Planned It](https://www.abramorama.com/film/billypreston) (2026), directed by Paris Barclay, in theaters through Abramorama.
    • [Pretty Ugly: The Story of the Lunachicks](https://www.primevideo.com/detail/0JALRVESVNYMKZ3MWYFVVH8KV0/) (2026), directed by Ilya Chaiken, brought to Concord by Betsy West and Julie Cohen.
    • Films on Billie Holiday, Cyndi Lauper, Shari Lewis and Lamb Chop, and Creedence Clearwater Revival, with Robert Johnson and Fania Records on the way.

    ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST

    [Documentary First](https://documentaryfirst.com/) is a weekly podcast about the craft, the business, and the truth of documentary filmmaking, hosted by Christian Taylor. Nearly 300 episodes in, Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide, MillionPodcasts ranks it the number one documentary film podcast in the US, and it holds a 4.8 out of 5 on Apple Podcasts. Christian Taylor is a documentary filmmaker (The Girl Who Wore Freedom), actor, voice actor, and casting director.

    RESOURCES MENTIONED

    • Soulsville U.S.A.: The Story of Stax Records by Rob Bowman, the book behind the film: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2775862
    • Documentary First Episode 277, Teddy Cannon on music rights and licensing, the other side of this conversation: https://pod.fo/e/413f3a


    Ep. 285 l How to Make a Documentary With No Film School: 5 Lessons Aug 21, 2026
    Show notes

    Who finishes your film if you can't?

    This episode is about how to make a documentary with no film school. Andre N. Jackson had never made a film. He had twenty years in technology and security, an idea that arrived while he was sitting in a barber's chair, and no way into the industry. He finished the film anyway, and he came on the show with three lessons for other filmmakers. Two more came out while we were talking.

    In Episode 285, Christian sits down with first-time filmmaker Andre N. Jackson to talk about "Beyond Banners," his film about the basketball program at Gwynn Park High School in Prince George's County, Maryland. Over a twenty-year run the team reached twelve state championships and won more than any high school in the state. The film starts there and ends up somewhere else entirely.

    Andre puts it plainly: "I actually learned about filmmaking through making a film." The spine of the conversation is what it takes to make a documentary when nothing is set up in your favor. Andre leaned on the research and analysis skills he built as an intelligence analyst, cold-called a Hall of Fame coach, funded it through a fiscal sponsor, used AI as a second brain, and kept going through two heart attacks that put him in an emergency room twice in three days. Along the way the film became a story about stewardship, about the people who stayed, and about what the commercialization of youth sports is doing to community public schools.

    In this episode, you'll learn:

    • How an idea that arrived in a barber's chair became a finished film with no film school behind it
    • Why twenty years as an intelligence analyst turned out to be a filmmaking advantage
    • Why Andre deliberately hired a crew who knew nothing about Gwynn Park, the region, or basketball
    • The cold call that landed Hall of Fame coach Tubby Smith
    • What a fiscal sponsor is, and how the Southern Documentary Fund made donors want to give
    • How a three-hour conversation in a Brooklyn coffee shop with writer-director Marquis Smalls became his production blueprint
    • What two heart attacks in three days taught him about succession, and what he changed the week he got out
    • How AI reenacted a co-protagonist who had died and left almost no footage behind
    • Why announcing the film on Instagram is the thing that made him finish it
    • What NIL deals, unrestricted transfers, and year-round travel ball are doing to community public schools

    THE FIVE LESSONS

    • Lean into your superpowers
    • Get comfortable taking calculated risks
    • Get creative about filling gaps
    • Plan for your absence
    • Use AI as a second brain

    CHAPTERS

    0:00 No Film School, No Connections

    3:16 How Do You Fund a First Documentary?

    6:09 When a Team Becomes a Town

    11:53 The Cost of Commercializing Youth Sports

    18:58 Planning for Your Own Absence

    24:37 AI as a Second Brain

    29:16 Cold Calling a Hall of Fame Coach

    33:45 Why the Collective Should Matter

    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

    How do you make a documentary with no film school?

    Lean into the skills you already have and hire for the ones you do not. Andre N. Jackson spent twenty years as an intelligence analyst, so he built his film on research and relationship building, the two things he was already good at. Then he deliberately recruited crew members who covered his gaps in craft and experience. He learned filmmaking by making a film, not before making one.

    How do you fund a documentary with no industry money?

    A fiscal sponsor is the most common route. It is a 501(c)(3) that sits between your project and your donors, so contributions become tax deductible and donors have a reason to say yes. Andre used the Southern Documentary Fund. You apply, you are accepted, you onboard, and then you can offer donors a tax break for backing your film. He combined that with personal funds and direct fundraising.

    How do you get well-known people to be in your documentary?

    Cold call them, and be specific about who you both know. Andre landed Hall of Fame coach Tubby Smith by reaching out directly and naming a mutual connection to establish trust. He got Wake Forest star Randolph Childress through a warm introduction from a Gwynn Park alumnus. The pattern is the same either way: ask, and use the relationships your relationships already have.

    What happens to your documentary if you cannot finish it?

    Plan for your absence before you need to. After two heart attacks during production, Andre started documenting what had only ever lived in his head and briefed his executive producer and his producer on the next steps, so the film could be completed whether or not he was there. Contingency planning in film usually means backup drives. It should also mean succession.

    Can AI help you make your first documentary?

    Andre used it three ways: to learn the end-to-end production process he never went to film school for, to generate an animated reenactment of a co-protagonist who had died and left almost no footage behind, and as a second brain that challenged his assumptions and pressure-tested his interview questions. He was clear it supplemented human mentorship rather than replacing it, and credits Brooklyn writer-director Marquis Smalls, who drew him a blueprint over three hours.

    DOCUVIEW DÉJÀ VU PICKS

    • "Undefeated" (2011), directed by Daniel Lindsay and T.J. Martin. Winner of the Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature. Andre's direct inspiration for making "Beyond Banners."
    • "The Last Dance" (2020), ESPN and Netflix. Andre is a Michael Jordan fan and names it as the film that came before Undefeated for him.

    SPONSORED BY

    This episode is brought to you by Virgil Films Entertainment. With over 25 years of distribution experience, Virgil has released Super Size Me, the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, Forks Over Knives, To Die For, Seven Yards, and Speed is Expensive. If you are a filmmaker having trouble with distribution, talk to Virgil. https://virgilfilms.com

    ABOUT THE GUEST

    Andre N. Jackson is a first-time documentary filmmaker based in Fairfax, Virginia. He wrote and directed "Beyond Banners." He spent twenty years in the private sector in technology and security, including work at Capital One and Amazon and a brief stint at the Department of Homeland Security, and he worked as an intelligence analyst on cybersecurity and terrorism issues related to national security. He is a 1998 graduate of Gwynn Park High School, the subject of his film. He came to filmmaking with no film school and no industry connections.

    ABOUT THE FILM

    "Beyond Banners" is directed by Andre N. Jackson and follows the basketball program at Gwynn Park High School in Prince George's County, Maryland. In the words of the film's own logline: a son returns to his alma mater to carry his father's coaching legacy, only to discover that the winning tradition he grew up in was built for a world that no longer exists.

    The film follows an intertwined father-and-son story, Howard Matthews and Steve Matthews, and widens into a portrait of what community-based youth sports used to be and what the commercialization of high school athletics is doing to it. Produced and edited by Daniel Bowie, with animation and motion design by Henry Gretzinger. Historian Ida E. Jones of Morgan State University asks the question Andre names as his favorite line in the film: "What is it about community that makes us community?" It also features Hall of Fame coach Tubby Smith, Wake Forest star Randolph Childress, who broke ACC records, sportswriter Neil Greenberger, who spent twenty years at The Washington Post and led its local sports section, and archival footage The film is headed to the festival circuit.

    Website: https://beyondbannersdocumentary.com

    Instagram: @beyondbannersdocumentary

    ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST

    Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the craft, the business, and the truth of filmmaking. Host Christian Taylor is an award-winning documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of "The Girl Who Wore Freedom." Each week she sits down with filmmakers to talk about how the work actually gets made. Nearly 300 episodes in, Listen Notes ranks Documentary First in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide, MillionPodcasts ranks it the number one documentary film podcast in the US, and it holds a 4.8 out of 5 on Apple Podcasts.

    RESOURCES MENTIONED

    • "Beyond Banners" (film), directed by Andre N. Jackson: https://beyondbannersdocumentary.com
    • Southern Documentary Fund, fiscal sponsorship: https://southerndocumentaryfund.org
    • "Undefeated" (2011), Academy Award winner for Best Documentary Feature
    • "The Last Dance" (2020), ESPN and Netflix
    • James Hawkins, book on Gwynn Park's 1968 to 1970 state championship three-peat
    • Gwynn Park High School, Prince George's County, Maryland
    • Ida E. Jones, historian, Morgan State University
    • Tubby Smith, Hall of Fame coach, 1998 national championship at the University of Kentucky
    • Randolph Childress, who broke ACC records at Wake Forest University
    • Marquis Smalls, writer, director and producer, Street Dreams Films, Brooklyn, New York: https://streetdreamsfilms.com
    • Higgsfield, the AI tool used for the animated reenactment
    • Virgil Films Entertainment: https://virgilfilms.com
    • Neil Greenberger, twenty years at The Washington Post, covering Washington football and college basketball

    LISTEN AND FOLLOW

    Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://pod.fo/e/562e4c

    Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

    SUPPORT THE SHOW

    Join our community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

    CONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRST

    All platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

    Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor


    Why Can't Your Documentary Find an Audience? l Deep Dive on Ep. 284 Aug 13, 2026
    Show notes

    When did your audience stop being people and become a number?

    Most independent films and podcasts do not fail because the work is bad. They fail because no one ever felt like they belonged to them. This Deep Dive is about how to build an audience for your documentary before it is ever released, and the one ingredient that decides whether people stay with what you make.

    In this Deep Dive on Documentary First Episode 284 with Dutch filmmaker Jonathan de Jong, host Christian Taylor takes the idea at the heart of his film “Human Forever,” the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history, and follows it somewhere unexpected: the same thing that makes dementia care humane is the thing that built his audience.

    The spine of the episode is a single word, belonging. Jonathan says the most dangerous part of dementia is not the diagnosis, it is the feeling of not belonging. Christian tests that idea against her own father’s move into memory care this month, then turns it on filmmakers through Martin Buber’s 1923 book “I and Thou” and the difference between treating a person as an “It” and meeting them as a “Thou.” The through line: build belonging before you build buzz.

    In this episode, Christian explores:

    • Why the feeling of not belonging is the most dangerous part of dementia, in Jonathan de Jong’s own words
    • The one ingredient that decides whether people stay with what you make
    • How Jonathan built an audience for “Human Forever” before a single frame was shot
    • Why building a movement beat marketing a film
    • What belonging looks like in one real room, on her father’s move day
    • Martin Buber’s “I and Thou” and the difference between an It and a Thou
    • How filmmaking goes wrong the moment your audience becomes a number
    • Why you invite people to belong instead of reaching for them
    • The question to ask about anyone you put in front of your camera
    • What a documentary about dementia can teach any filmmaker about reach

    CHAPTERS

    0:00 The Secret That Keeps an Audience

    2:04 The Most Dangerous Feeling

    5:16 The People and the Plan

    7:53 Build Belonging Before Buzz

    11:26 Meet Them, Don’t Aim

    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

    How do you build an audience for a documentary before it is released? You build belonging first. Jonathan de Jong built a movement around “Human Forever” before the film existed, a real person at the center and bestselling books out in the world, so audiences already felt part of something by release. The lesson for any filmmaker: make people feel they belong to what you are doing long before you ask them to watch, buy, or share it.

    What is the best way to market a documentary with no budget? Stop marketing and start including. Invite people into the mission instead of aiming promotion at them. When an audience feels seen and part of the story, they carry it for you. Belonging spreads a film further than any ad spend, which is why Jonathan filled theaters for a film about dementia without a marketing war chest.

    What is Martin Buber’s “I and Thou” about? “I and Thou,” published in 1923, describes two ways of relating to another person. You can treat someone as an “It,” a thing to manage, a number, a problem to handle. Or you can meet them as a “Thou,” a whole person, encountered directly. Buber argued that real life is found in the “Thou,” in genuine meeting rather than use.

    Why do people stop watching independent films and podcasts? Because they can feel when a creator is aiming something at them instead of making something for them. The moment an audience becomes a view count or a click to convert, the work loses the sense that it was made for real people. People stay when they feel met and included, and they drift when they feel handled.

    ABOUT THE FILMS AND TOPIC

    “Human Forever” is a documentary directed by Dutch filmmaker Jonathan de Jong through SUPER7EVEN Productions. It follows the young dementia-care nurse Teun Toebes as he lives among and travels the world alongside people with dementia, and it became the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history. The film is one piece of a larger movement that also includes Teun’s bestselling books and the Article 25 Foundation he co-founded.

    Jonathan de Jong is a Dutch filmmaker and author who builds socially focused stories, and the guest on Documentary First Episode 284. SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://supersevenproductions.com. Film: https://human-forever.com.

    Teun Toebes is a nurse, humanitarian activist, and bestselling author who has spent years living inside dementia wards around the world. https://www.teuntoebes.com.

    ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST: THE DEEP DIVE

    Each week, host Christian Taylor takes an insight from a recent Documentary First filmmaker interview and follows it through literature, philosophy, faith, and her own life. Christian is an award-winning documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of “The Girl Who Wore Freedom.” The Deep Dive is built for documentary filmmakers, lovers of story, and anyone who wants to think more deeply about the work of making things.

    RESOURCES MENTIONED

    • “Human Forever” (film), Jonathan de Jong, SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://human-forever.com
    • SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://supersevenproductions.com
    • Teun Toebes: https://www.teuntoebes.com
    • Martin Buber, “I and Thou” (Ich und Du), 1923

    Documentary First Episode 284 with Jonathan de Jong: https://pod.fo/e/50bde1

    LISTEN AND FOLLOW

    Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first Watch on YouTube: @DocumentaryFirst

    SUPPORT THE SHOW

    Join our community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/documentaryfirst

    CONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRST

    All platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor


    Ep. 284 I How to Fund a Documentary Without the Industry Aug 06, 2026
    Show notes

    How do you fund a documentary when the whole industry says no?

    How do you fund a documentary without film funds, grants, or a commissioning broadcaster, and still reach a huge audience? Dutch filmmaker Jonathan de Jong did exactly that with Human Forever, the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history. The government pulled his funding two and a half years into production, and he still finished the film, built a movement, and put it in cinemas around the world.

    In Episode 284 of Documentary First, Christian Taylor sits down with Jonathan de Jong, director of Human Forever and founder of SUPER7EVEN Productions, to talk about how independent filmmakers actually fund, build an audience for, get access for, and produce a documentary that people see.

    Jonathan's whole approach starts from one idea: build the audience before the film exists. He grew a following through a bestselling book, The Housemates, a touring theater show, and his protagonist, the young nurse Teun Toebes, before the movie ever premiered. He funds outside the traditional market by partnering with mission-aligned organizations, he earns fly-on-the-wall access by investing years of unhurried time, and he made a hard subject impossible to look away from. In his words, “we made dementia sexy.”

    In this episode, you'll learn:

    • How to fund a documentary without relying on film funds, grants, or a broadcaster
    • How to build an audience for your film before it is released
    • How to get access to hospitals, care facilities, and other closed institutions
    • How to produce a documentary across multiple countries
    • Why Jonathan approaches every film as a product, not only a passion project
    • How partnering with mission-aligned organizations can both fund and distribute your film
    • The “be Switzerland” method for directing a subject to get honest, real reactions
    • How to keep a film earning and touring years after its release
    • Why treating a serious subject with warmth beats treating it as only serious
    • What the record-breaking success of Human Forever teaches about impact over views

    CHAPTERS

    0:00 Breaking In Without Film School

    5:06 Finding a Story Worth Telling

    7:24 Build the Audience Before Release

    12:21 When the Funding Fell Through

    15:18 You Can't Buy Happiness

    20:33 What Moldova Taught Him

    26:47 Making the Camera Invisible

    30:30 Directing a Neutral Protagonist

    37:17 How Do You Get Access?

    42:28 Where Does the Money Come From?

    47:38 He Made Dementia Sexy

    Frequently Asked Questions

    How do you fund a documentary without grants or film funds?

    Partner with mission-aligned organizations. Jonathan de Jong funds his films by teaming with social organizations, foundations, and local and national governments that care about the subject. Each contributes a smaller amount, and together they add up to a full budget. Because those partners also have large audiences, they become the film's first ambassadors, so the same partnership that funds the film also helps get it seen.

    How do you get access to film inside hospitals or care facilities?

    Invest time and build trust before the camera rolls. Jonathan spent years present without filming, and left the camera in the room so people grew used to it. Family members had to sign consent, and because his protagonist Teun Toebes was a trusted figure in dementia care, facilities welcomed the crew. Access came from relationships and patience, not from official fixers.

    How do you build an audience for a documentary before it comes out?

    Start years early and grow the audience alongside the film. Jonathan built a following through a bestselling book, a touring theater show, and social media, and he turned his protagonist into a recognized voice in the field. By the time Human Forever premiered, the audience and a network of ambassadors already existed, so the film became, in his words, the cherry on top.

    How do you produce a documentary in multiple countries?

    Work through the local community, not official fixers. Jonathan connects with people already working in the subject area, who bring in local governments and organizations to arrange permits and logistics. He keeps a small, lean crew that can move fast, and he builds a network of ambassadors in each country. That is how he filmed across eleven countries during a pandemic.

    DocuView Déjà Vu

    Jonathan's documentary pick is Searching for Sugar Man, which he calls one of the best documentaries ever made and a reminder of what the power of storytelling can do.

    Sponsored by Virgil Films Entertainment

    This episode is brought to you by Virgil Films Entertainment. With over 25 years of distribution experience, Virgil Films helps filmmakers get their work in front of audiences on every major platform. Learn more at https://www.virgilfilms.com/.

    About the Guest

    Jonathan de Jong is a Dutch documentary filmmaker and the founder of SUPER7EVEN Productions. He directs socially driven films that reach big audiences, and he is best known for Human Forever, the most-watched human interest documentary in Dutch cinema history. Website: https://supersevenproductions.com

    SUPER7EVEN Productions is Jonathan de Jong's Netherlands-based company, making impact-driven documentaries on pressing social issues. Human Forever premiered around a 2023 G20 summit and is now used in more than 40 universities, including Yale and Oxford, with a US broadcast coming to PBS. Jonathan's next films explore strong communities and addiction.

    About Human Forever and Teun Toebes

    Human Forever follows Teun Toebes, a young care ethicist dubbed the “Greta Thunberg of healthcare,” who moved into the closed ward of a nursing home at 21 and traveled across four continents and eleven countries to ask how we can give people living with dementia a better quality of life. Teun's book, The Housemates, was a number one bestseller in Denmark and has been translated into English, German, Italian, and Arabic. Website: https://www.teuntoebes.com.

    About Documentary First

    Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the craft, business, and truth of documentary filmmaking, hosted by filmmaker Christian Taylor. Across nearly 300 episodes, the guest chair has held everyone from Ken Burns to first-time independents. Documentary First ranks in the top 5 percent of all podcasts worldwide on Listen Notes, is the number one documentary film podcast in the US on MillionPodcasts, and holds a 4.8 out of 5 on Apple Podcasts. Christian Taylor is a documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of The Girl Who Wore Freedom.

    Resources Mentioned

    • Human Forever (film): https://www.teuntoebes.com/human-forever
    • SUPER7EVEN Productions: https://supersevenproductions.com
    • Teun Toebes: https://www.teuntoebes.com
    • The Housemates, book by Teun Toebes https://septemberpublishing.org/product/the-housemates-pb/
    • Searching for Sugar Man (documentary)
    • Virgil Films Entertainment: https://virgilfilms.com

    Connect With the Guests

    • Jonathan de Jong: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/7onathandejong, LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-de-jong-07b670b
    • Teun Toebes: Instagram https://www.instagram.com/teuntoebes, LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/teuntoebes

    Listen and Follow Documentary First

    • Listen to this episode: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first
    • Follow the show: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first
    • YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

    Support the Show

    • Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

    Connect

    • Documentary First: https://linktr.ee/doc1st
    • Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor


    Who Believed in You First? I Deep Dive on Ep. 283 Jul 30, 2026
    Show notes

    Who believed in you before you could believe in yourself?

    In this Deep Dive, documentary filmmaker Christian Taylor makes a quiet case that we rarely overcome self-doubt on our own. Almost no one finishes anything hard alone. Someone has to see it in you first. This is a reflection on the power of belief, on the kind of encouragement that shows up right when you are ready to quit, and on how a few honest words can help a person keep going and change the whole outcome of a life.

    This Deep Dive grows out of Documentary First Episode 283 with Joe Amodei, the veteran film distributor who, after forty-five years of releasing other people's films, finally directed his own: Cold War in Philly. The seed is a story Joe told about his friend Morgan Spurlock, who looked at him and said, "Yes, you are," when Joe insisted he was not a director. Morgan died before filming began. Joe made the film anyway.

    From there, Christian follows the same pattern through her own life and through stories you already know: the producer Sandy Gordon, who told her she could tell her own story; C.S. Lewis's belief that helped J.R.R. Tolkien finish The Lord of the Rings; Emmy Werner's forty-year Kauai study on the power of one caring adult; Fred Shero and the 1976 Philadelphia Flyers; the BELIEVE sign in Ted Lasso; and the Christmas her young son Hunter talked her out of quitting The Girl Who Wore Freedom. The throughline: belief usually arrives from outside before it grows from within, it works by being repeated at the moment you want to give up, and it is something you can hand another person for the price of a sentence.

    In this episode, Christian explores:

    • Why we so often cannot see in ourselves what other people can see plainly
    • The difference between belief that gets you to the starting line and belief that gets you to the finish
    • Why encouragement has to be repeated, not announced once
    • How Morgan Spurlock's belief outlived him and finished Joe Amodei's first film
    • What C.S. Lewis's encouragement had to do with Tolkien finishing The Lord of the Rings
    • The single factor that most helped at-risk children thrive in the forty-year Kauai study
    • What the 1976 Flyers and the BELIEVE sign in Ted Lasso have in common
    • The Christmas her son Hunter believed in her when she was ready to walk away from her film
    • The strange math of belief: nearly free to give, and one of the most powerful things we do
    • Two things to do this week: remember who believed in you, and become that person for someone else

    CHAPTERS

    0:00 Before You Believe in Yourself

    2:49 Someone Has to See It First

    5:37 Encouragement When You Want to Quit

    8:34 Belief That Outlives Us

    11:14 How to Believe in Others

    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

    Why is it important to have someone believe in you?

    Because most of us cannot see our own potential clearly. We are too close to our own doubts. Belief from a credible person on the outside fills that gap and raises both effort and persistence, especially at the moment someone is ready to quit. Research on self-efficacy and on childhood resilience points the same way: one steady person who believes in you can change what you attempt and what you actually finish.

    How do you keep going when you want to quit a creative project?

    You borrow belief until you can make your own. Nearly everyone who finishes a hard project hits a wall where they are sure it is over. What carries people through is usually not one pep talk but someone who reminds them, again and again, that they can do it. Christian Taylor finished her documentary after her young son repeated his belief in her until she could go back to work.

    How do you believe in yourself when no one else does?

    You usually do not have to do it entirely alone. The honest move this episode offers is to remember that someone has already believed in you, even if you have forgotten them, and to borrow that belief until it becomes your own. Recall what they saw in you. And if you feel truly without support right now, become the encourager you needed: the same words that steady other people can steady you when you say them to yourself.

    Can one person really change your life?

    Yes. In Emmy Werner's forty-year Kauai study of nearly 700 children, about a third of the high-risk kids grew into capable, caring adults, and the strongest protective factor was having at least one steady adult who believed in them. One was enough. The same pattern shows up in creative work, where a single believer often decides whether a project is abandoned or finished.

    What does it mean that belief can outlive the believer?

    It means the encouragement someone gives you keeps working even after they are gone. Morgan Spurlock told Joe Amodei he could direct, then died before filming started, and Joe finished the film anyway. Fred Shero's line to the Flyers, "Win today and we'll walk together forever," names the same truth: the people who believe in us walk with us long after the moment itself has passed.

    ABOUT THE FILMS AND WORKS IN THIS EPISODE

    Cold War in Philly, directed by Joe Amodei (Virgil Films): the story of the night in 1976 the Philadelphia Flyers beat the Soviet Red Army. https://coldwarinphilly.com

    The Girl Who Wore Freedom, directed by Christian Taylor: the documentary referenced throughout this episode.

    Also referenced: La La Land (2016, written and directed by Damien Chazelle); Man of La Mancha; Ted Lasso (Apple TV+); The Lord of the Rings and the friendship of J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis; Tuesdays with Morrie by Mitch Albom; and "Wind Beneath My Wings," popularized by Bette Midler.

    ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST: THE DEEP DIVE

    Documentary First: The Deep Dive is the companion to Documentary First, where host Christian Taylor takes one insight from a recent conversation and follows it wherever it leads. Christian is a documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of The Girl Who Wore Freedom and Heroes of Carentan.

    RESOURCES MENTIONED

    Documentary First Episode 283 with Joe Amodei: [add episode URL]

    Cold War in Philly: https://coldwarinphilly.com

    Virgil Films: https://virgilfilms.com

    Emmy Werner, the Kauai Longitudinal Study

    The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien

    Tuesdays with Morrie, by Mitch Albom

    La La Land (2016)

    Man of La Mancha

    Ted Lasso (Apple TV+)

    LISTEN AND FOLLOW

    Listen on any podcast app: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first

    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

    Support the show on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

    CONNECT

    Documentary First Linktree: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

    Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor


    Ep. 283 I 7 Filmmaking Tips From the Distributor Who Directed "Cold War in Philly" Jul 23, 2026
    Show notes

    What does it really take to make a documentary that finds an audience and earns its money back?

    “You have to have the passion for the story and the passion to do the work, because it will not be easy.”

    — Joe Amodei

    If you want to make a documentary, the hardest questions are not the ones about cameras. They are about access, money, and whether anyone will ever watch it. In Documentary First Episode 283, a distributor who has spent more than forty-five years releasing films, and has now directed his first one, gives 7 filmmaking tips that cut straight to those questions, from getting access to a famous subject to setting a budget that can actually earn its money back.

    In Episode 283, Christian Taylor sits down with Joe Amodei, the founder of Virgil Films and a film distributor of more than forty-five years, who has released hundreds of documentaries including Super Size Me, the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, and Forks Over Knives. After decades of releasing other people's films and learning from the mistakes he watched filmmakers make, Joe finally made his own: Cold War in Philly, the story of the night in 1976 when the Philadelphia Flyers beat the Soviet Red Army. He came to find out whether his own advice would hold up.

    The throughline is simple and a little daring: a career distributor became a first-time director, determined not to repeat the mistakes he had watched other filmmakers make. Along the way he explains how he got access to a legendary NHL team through its alumni association, why he kept the budget under $250,000, why a built-in audience mattered so much, and a first documentary that sold out theaters across Philadelphia. Running underneath it is the Cold War itself: the KGB minders, the players who hated the government but not each other, and the heroes Joe got on camera before they were gone.

    IN THIS EPISODE, YOU'LL LEARN:

    • How to get access to famous people and organizations, through the alumni association
    • What Joe did once he was in the room: prove yourself, be yourself, and be honest
    • The deals he had to clear before filming, the team, the owner, and the league, and that they took nearly a year
    • Why a built-in audience is what decides whether an indie film succeeds
    • What to budget for a documentary, and why Joe will not spend more than $250,000 on an indie doc
    • How Joe made sure to get the players on camera, including two who passed away after their interviews
    • Why his first film took two and a half years, and what he would do differently next time
    • The qualities that make a film distributor worth trusting: answering calls, paying on time, being honest
    • The two things Joe says it takes to finish a film
    • Why Joe believes the work is worth it, from the players' gratitude to a film that outlives everyone

    CHAPTERS

    0:00 Becoming a First-Time Director

    2:42 How Do You Get Access?

    9:33 Capturing Heroes in Time

    13:04 Structuring the Documentary

    21:20 The Grind of Production

    28:11 Selling Out Theaters

    38:32 What Makes a Film Succeed?

    41:37 What Should a Doc Budget Be?

    44:48 How Do You Keep Going?

    47:38 Is Filmmaking Worth It?

    FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

    How do you get access to famous people or organizations for a documentary?

    Go through the alumni association. Joe Amodei got the Philadelphia Flyers by working with the team's alumni group, which controls appearances for former players. Nearly every major sports team and league has one, usually run by one or two people. Find that person, earn their trust, and they can open the door to the whole roster. Then be ready to handle the separate contracts with the team, the owner, and the league.

    How much does it cost to make a documentary?

    For an independent documentary, Joe Amodei's rule is not to spend more than $250,000. The reasoning is about return: know what the film can realistically earn back before you set the documentary budget, and understand the market you are spending against. A built-in audience and disciplined spending give a documentary a real chance to make its money back.

    What makes an independent film succeed in today's market?

    A built-in audience. Joe Amodei says a film does best when people already care about the subject before it exists. Cold War in Philly had Flyers fans waiting for it, and the sold-out theatrical run followed. If you cannot name the audience for your idea, Joe's view is you might not want to make it. When you can, the film has a base to launch from and can cross over to viewers beyond the core, people who told Joe they were not even hockey fans.

    What does it take to succeed as a documentary filmmaker?

    Two things, according to Joe Amodei: passion and willpower. Passion for the story carries you through a process that will not be easy, and willpower keeps you going when the edit stalls and the work is not moving as fast as you wanted. You owe it to your investors, your subjects, and the people who gave up their time to sit for you. His advice is simple: you cannot give up.

    What should you look for in a film distributor?

    Christian describes what makes Joe a distributor worth trusting: he answers calls and emails, pays on time, sends the reports that are due, and is honest. She notes that this basic reliability is rarer than it should be in the business, and it is exactly what separates a distributor you can trust from one you cannot.

    DOCUVIEW DÉJÀ VU PICKS

    In the DocuView Déjà Vu segment, Joe Amodei highlighted two documentaries from the Virgil Films slate: She Was Here, about the young actress from Poltergeist, and Broken Brothers, directed by Jeff Levine, a future Documentary First guest. Both are available on Amazon and Apple TV.

    SPONSORED BY

    Virgil Films Entertainment. With more than twenty-five years of distribution experience, Virgil releases documentaries and indie features and works directly with every major platform. Learn more at https://virgilfilms.com.

    ABOUT JOE AMODEI

    Joe Amodei is the founder of Virgil Films and a film distributor with more than forty-five years in the industry. He started in retail, worked in live entertainment for Ted Turner and Barry Diller, and went on to release hundreds of documentaries, including Super Size Me, the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, and Forks Over Knives. Cold War in Philly is his directorial debut, the story of the 1976 game in which the Philadelphia Flyers beat the Soviet Red Army. Learn more at https://coldwarinphilly.com.

    ABOUT VIRGIL FILMS

    Virgil Films and Entertainment is an independent distributor known for documentaries and indie features, with a catalog that includes Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives, To Die For, Seven Yards, and Speed is Expensive. The company works directly with every major transactional platform and offers filmmakers a range of deals, from standard distribution to service arrangements. Recent and upcoming releases include She Was Here and Broken Brothers. Learn more at https://virgilfilms.com.

    ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST

    Documentary First is the show where we dig into the craft of filmmaking, the business, and the truth of it. Host Christian Taylor is a documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice actor, and the director of The Girl Who Wore Freedom and Heroes of Carentan. Each week she sits down with the people who make documentaries and pulls out what actually works.

    RESOURCES MENTIONED

    • Cold War in Philly (film site): https://coldwarinphilly.com/
    • Cold War in Philly is available to rent or buy on Amazon, Apple TV, Vudu, and YouTube
    • The Girl Who Wore Freedom (Christian Taylor, distributed by Virgil Films)
    • Films referenced: Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives

    LISTEN AND FOLLOW

    Listen to this episode and follow Documentary First on your favorite app: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first

    Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

    CONNECT

    Documentary First Linktree: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

    Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

    LISTEN TO MORE EPISODES WITH JOE AMODEI

    EP.128 - A Distributor Speaks: Joe Amodei

    EP.194 - Top 5 Filmmaking Business Tips w/ Joe Amodei

    EP.198 - Joe Amodei Returns with Cannes Report Part#1

    EP.216 - Getting Distributed w/ Joe Amodei Part#1

    EP.271 - Joe Amodei on Documentary Distribution: Budgets, Genres & Building Your Audience


    Ep. 282 I Finding the Heartbeat of Your Story | A Lesson From Normandy Jul 16, 2026
    Show notes

    How do you make people care about your documentary?

    Facts alone rarely make an audience care. The emotional core of a documentary lives somewhere else. In this episode of Documentary First, filmmaker Christian Taylor tells the story of how she found the heartbeat her film about the Battle of Carentan was missing. It was not in the archives. It was in the memories of a man who was six years old when the war came for his town.

    For months, Christian’s film Heroes of Carentan felt stuck in what one WWII veteran called the “data of history,” the maps, the dates, and the military maneuvers. Everything shifted when she met Yves Marchais. In June 1944, Yves was a small boy living under German occupation in Carentan, France. This year he sent Christian thirteen letters recording what he remembered, and those letters gave the historical record a soul.

    It comes down to a lesson every documentary filmmaker learns the hard way: audiences do not connect to issues or information, they connect to people. Anchored by a line from Pfc. John E. Fitzgerald, a runner for Medal of Honor recipient Lt. Col. Robert Cole, this episode argues that the essence of history is not its record but its heartbeat. Yves calls his own account his “hummingbird’s share,” not the whole war, but the small, vivid pieces that passed before a child’s eyes. His story becomes a lesson in telling a big historical event through one small, personal one.

    In this episode, you’ll learn:

    Why facts and figures alone rarely move an audience

    How to find the emotional core, or heartbeat, of a documentary

    Why audiences connect to people, not to issues or information

    How to tell a big historical story through one small, personal one

    What Pfc. John E. Fitzgerald meant when he warned that history can lose its heartbeat

    Why one person’s story can carry an entire historical event

    What the “hummingbird’s share” is, and why small memories matter more than big ones

    How the Battle of Carentan looked through the eyes of a six-year-old boy

    How Yves Marchais and his family survived the occupation and liberation of Carentan

    Why the story a filmmaker starts with is often not the story worth telling

    What the series Band of Brothers has to do with the real Battle of Carentan

    How to know when your film has finally found its emotional core

    Chapters:

    00:00 Meeting a survivor of Carentan

    01:15 13 letters and Band of Brothers

    02:26 Life under German occupation

    04:01 D-Day and the kitchen sink

    05:27 Fleeing an empty Carentan

    06:59 The trench and liberation

    08:45 Colonel Cole and the runner

    10:57 The lesson: find your heartbeat

    Frequently Asked Questions:

    How do you find the emotional core of a documentary?

    Facts and chronology rarely move an audience on their own. The emotional core, what host Christian Taylor calls the heartbeat, usually lives in one person’s specific, lived experience rather than in the broad historical record. In this episode she describes finding it in the memories of Yves Marchais, a French civilian who was six during the Battle of Carentan, and building the film’s meaning around his point of view.

    How do you make an audience care about a documentary subject?

    Audiences connect to people far more than to issues or information. The most reliable way to make viewers care about a large subject, a war, a movement, a crisis, is to tell it through one specific person whose experience makes the bigger story personal. In this episode, Christian Taylor builds her film about the Battle of Carentan around a single child’s memories rather than the broad military record.

    What was the Battle of Carentan?

    The Battle of Carentan was a June 1944 fight for the town of Carentan in Normandy, France, a key objective linking the American forces landing at Utah and Omaha beaches. The 101st Airborne Division, including units later made famous by Band of Brothers, fought to take the town, which was liberated on June 12, 1944.

    Who is Yves Marchais?

    Yves Marchais is a French man who, as a six-year-old boy, lived through the German occupation and the 1944 liberation of Carentan. Decades later he recorded his childhood memories of the war in a series of letters, which became the emotional core of Christian Taylor’s documentary. He calls his account his “hummingbird’s share,” the small, true pieces of history he witnessed firsthand.

    What did Pfc. John Fitzgerald mean about history losing its heartbeat?

    Pfc. John E. Fitzgerald, who served as a runner for Medal of Honor recipient Lt. Col. Robert Cole, wrote that the data of history should not lose its heartbeat as it becomes information, or all that remains is the record without the essence. Christian Taylor uses that idea as the key to her film: the facts of a battle matter, but the human story is what makes people care.

    About the Film and the Story:

    Heroes of Carentan is Christian Taylor’s in-production documentary about the 1944 liberation of Carentan, Normandy, told through the people who lived it. Yves Marchais was six years old during the battle. His firsthand account of the occupation, the bombing, his family’s escape through a deserted town, and the moment of liberation forms the emotional center of the film. This episode is the second part of Christian’s story about finding that center.

    About Documentary First:

    Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the craft, business, and truth of documentary filmmaking. Host Christian Taylor is a documentary filmmaker (The Girl Who Wore Freedom), actor, voice actor, and podcast host based in the United States. Each week she explores what it takes to tell true stories that move people, through interviews with filmmakers and solo episodes drawn from her own work.

    Resources Mentioned:

    The Colonel and the Runner, by Pfc. John E. Fitzgerald (a recollection of Lt. Col. Robert G. Cole, 502nd Parachute Infantry Regiment, 101st Airborne Division)

    Band of Brothers (Episode 3 follows the Battle of Carentan)

    The Girl Who Wore Freedom, Christian Taylor’s award-winning D-Day documentary

    Watch or Listen to Part 1:

    https://pod.fo/e/4405a5

    Listen and Follow:

    Documentary First: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first

    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

    Support the show on Patreon:

    https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

    Connect:

    Documentary First on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

    Connect with Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor


    Ep. 281 I 13 Letters That Saved a Dying WWII Documentary - on Heroes of Carentan Pt 1 Jul 02, 2026
    Show notes

    Can thirteen letters from an 88-year-old stranger bring a dead film back to life?

    For two years, Heroes of Carentan, Christian Taylor's documentary about the 101st Airborne Division and the June 1944 liberation of Carentan, sat on a shelf, half made. In this episode she tells the honest story of why a WWII documentary stalls, what it costs to keep going, and the thirteen letters from an 88-year-old man in France that finally gave the film its heartbeat back.

    In Episode 281 of Documentary First, Christian Taylor takes listeners inside her upcoming film for the first time. Part 1 is how Heroes of Carentan fell apart, and how it came back. Part 2 travels to Normandy, where the letters came to life.

    Christian walks through the three walls that stalled the film: a story that had all its pieces but none of the feeling, a modern-to-historical framing device that turned into a cage, and the reality of self-funding a documentary, including a Covid disaster loan she wished she'd never taken. Then comes the breakthrough, hidden in two years of research, and the moment she remembered Yves Marchais, who was six and a half years old when the 101st Airborne liberated his town.

    In this episode, you'll learn:

    • Why a documentary can have every piece in place and still feel dead on the screen
    • How a timely framing device can quietly become a liability that dates a film
    • What self-funding a documentary can mean, and the loan no one talks about
    • Why the story of the Battle of Carentan was not working
    • How going back to the research, not the footage, broke a two-year block
    • Why pointing the camera at the people the soldiers saved changed everything
    • Who Yves Marchais is, and why his memories reframed the whole film
    • How thirteen letters from an 88-year-old man gave the film its heartbeat
    • What separates Heroes of Carentan from The Girl Who Wore Freedom
    • Why the cost of war, carried in one person, became the true subject

    CHAPTERS

    0:00 A letter from Carentan

    0:32 Why this episode is for you

    1:19 Heroes of Carentan and The Girl Who Wore Freedom

    1:50 Normandy's gratitude, and where this show began

    2:46 Two years on the shelf: the three walls

    2:57 Wall 1: all the pieces, none of the feeling

    3:41 Wall 2: the framing that became a cage

    4:34 Wall 3: self-funding, burnout, and the loan no one talks about

    5:48 The breakthrough hiding in the research

    6:32 Point the camera at the ones they saved

    7:08 Meeting Yves Marchais

    8:27 Thirteen letters from a child of war

    10:25 The heartbeat, and off to Normandy

    Frequently Asked Questions

    What was the Battle of Carentan in June 1944?

    The Battle of Carentan was fought from June 10 to 14, 1944, days after the D-Day landings. The U.S. 101st Airborne Division fought to take the Norman town of Carentan, which linked the Utah and Omaha beachheads. After crossing an exposed causeway under fire, the Americans forced the German defenders out on June 12, then held the town against a counterattack with help from the 2nd Armored Division.

    Who liberated Carentan in World War II?

    Carentan was liberated by the U.S. 101st Airborne Division, the Screaming Eagles, in June 1944. The 501st, 502nd, and 506th Parachute Infantry Regiments and the 327th Glider Infantry Regiment spearheaded the fight, with Lieutenant Colonel Robert Cole leading a famous charge along the road nicknamed Purple Heart Lane. In addition, tanks from the 2nd Armored Division helped repel the German counterattack on June 13.

    What is the documentary Heroes of Carentan about?

    Heroes of Carentan is a feature documentary by filmmaker Christian Taylor about the liberation of Carentan, France, in June 1944, told through the people who lived it. After a two-year production stall, the film was rebuilt with the help of Yves Marchais, who was a six-year-old child during the battle and later wrote thirteen letters recounting his memories. It is Taylor's second feature, following The Girl Who Wore Freedom.

    Why do documentary filmmakers self-fund their films?

    Documentary funding is famously hard, and self-funding is common because otherwise many projects would never get made. Filmmakers often cover early costs themselves to show commitment before grants or investors come in. The current climate is tougher than usual, with the closure of the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and cuts to PBS shrinking traditional support, so many filmmakers now rely on personal savings, credit, and small donor communities.

    Who is Yves Marchais?

    Yves Marchais is a French civilian who was six and a half years old when the U.S. 101st Airborne Division liberated his town of Carentan in June 1944. Now 88, he wrote thirteen letters to filmmaker Christian Taylor recounting his childhood memories of the occupation, the bombing, and the American soldiers who saved his family. His testimony became the emotional center of the documentary Heroes of Carentan.

    About Heroes of Carentan

    Heroes of Carentan is Christian Taylor's second feature documentary, currently in production. It tells the story of the liberation of Carentan, France, in June 1944 by the 101st Airborne Division, seen through the eyes of French civilian Yves Marchais, who lived through it as a six-year-old child.

    About The Girl Who Wore Freedom

    Christian Taylor's award-winning first documentary, about the gratitude the people of Normandy still carry for the American soldiers who liberated them. This episode includes a short clip from the film featuring Valerie Cardin and Marie-Pascal Legrand. Website: https://www.thegirlwhoworefreedom.com

    About Documentary First

    Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the craft, business, and truth of documentary filmmaking. Host Christian Taylor is a documentary filmmaker, actor, and voice artist with more than four decades in entertainment. Each week she sits down with documentary filmmakers and nonfiction storytellers, and The Deep Dive companion series explores a single idea from a recent conversation.

    Resources Mentioned

    The Girl Who Wore Freedom: https://www.thegirlwhoworefreedom.com

    Listen & Follow

    Listen and follow Documentary First: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first

    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

    Support the show on Patreon

    https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

    Connect

    Documentary First on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

    Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor


    The Disappointment You Didn't Choose I Deep Dive on Ep. 280 Jun 24, 2026
    Show notes

    What if the disappointment you didn't choose was the only door to the life you were meant to live?

    Three generations of one family chased professional baseball, and all three lost it to a career-ending injury. Each one found his calling in the aftermath. That pattern runs through Voices: The Danny Gans Story, filmmaker Andrew Gans's documentary about his father, the Las Vegas entertainer known as the Man of Many Voices. In this Deep Dive, Christian Taylor sits with what Andrew's film, and her own family's story, reveal about disappointment, the courage to tell the truth, and the doors we would never have chosen to walk through.

    In this Deep Dive on Documentary First Episode 280 with Andrew Gans, Christian goes deeper into the heartbreak behind the film: a lost baseball career, a father's sudden death, a movie nearly ended by COVID, and the hard choice between protecting a hero and telling the truth. She connects it to her own son's last-minute disqualification that sent him to Normandy and seeded her film The Girl Who Wore Freedom, and to the warning Danny Gans's story carries for anyone living with chronic pain.

    The thread tying it together is simple and hard. The worst thing that happens to you is almost never what you would have chosen, and sometimes it is the only door to the life you were meant to live. But not every closed door opens onto something better. Danny built an extraordinary life after his injury, then lost the end of that life to the medication treating his chronic pain. The doorway and the warning reach us through the same act: Andrew's refusal to quit.

    In this episode, Christian explores:

    • Why three generations of one family lost their baseball dreams to injury and found their calling in the aftermath
    • How Andrew Gans set out to honor his father and ended up telling a harder, more honest story
    • Why the worst thing that happens to you can become the only door to the life you were meant to live
    • How COVID and lost funding became the reason the most personal part of the film exists
    • The choice every documentary filmmaker faces: protect the hero or tell the truth
    • Why someone is more of a hero when you see that they are human and flawed
    • How a soldier's unfair disqualification became the foundation for The Girl Who Wore Freedom
    • Why not every closed door opens onto something better, and how to hold that honestly
    • What Danny Gans's life and loss reveal about chronic pain and pain medication
    • Why holding your plan loosely can make a better film, and a better life

    Chapters:

    0:00 A Warning That Might Save Your Life

    1:09 Andrew Gans: Losing the Dream and a Father

    2:08 Three Generations, Three Closed Doors

    2:54 How COVID Setbacks Shaped the Film

    3:13 Making a Documentary About Your Own Family

    3:33 Telling the Truth in a Documentary About Family

    4:28 My Son Hunter and the Door to Normandy

    5:42 Danny Gans: An Extraordinary Life and Tragic Loss

    6:21 Chronic Pain and the Danger of Pain Medication

    6:40 Why Persistence Matters in Filmmaking

    7:02 Letting Go of Control

    7:49 When Disappointment Is a Doorway

    Frequently Asked Questions:

    What is Voices: The Danny Gans Story about?

    Voices: The Danny Gans Story is a documentary by Andrew Gans about his father, the Las Vegas entertainer Danny Gans, known as the Man of Many Voices. What started as a tribute became a more honest portrait, including the chronic pain Danny carried privately and the loss that ended his life. It is a son's effort to tell the whole truth about the man he admired.

    Who was Danny Gans?

    Danny Gans was a singer, comedian, and impressionist who became one of the biggest headliners in Las Vegas and was named Entertainer of the Year twelve times. Before entertainment, he was drafted by the White Sox organization, until a severed Achilles ended his baseball career and sent him toward the stage, where he became known as the Man of Many Voices.

    How did Danny Gans die?

    Danny Gans died in 2009 at age 52. His death was accidental, connected to prescription medication he was taking for chronic pain. Voices: The Danny Gans Story explores this honestly, presenting his story as both a tribute and a cautionary reminder about the risks of pain treatment for the millions of people who live with chronic pain every day.

    How do you make a documentary about your own family?

    Filmmakers documenting their own family often face a tension between honoring someone and telling the truth about them. In Voices: The Danny Gans Story, Andrew Gans chose to include painful discoveries about his father and to put himself in the film. The honest version, he found, made his father more of a hero, not less, because audiences connect with people who are human and flawed.

    About the Film and the People:

    Voices: The Danny Gans Story. Written and directed by Andrew Davies Gans, the documentary tells the story of his father, Danny Gans, the Las Vegas entertainer known as the Man of Many Voices. What began as a tribute became an honest portrait of a beloved performer, including the chronic pain he carried privately and the loss that ended his life.

    Danny Gans. A singer, comedian, and impressionist who became one of Las Vegas's biggest headliners, named Entertainer of the Year twelve times. Before entertainment, he was drafted by the White Sox organization, until a severed Achilles ended his baseball career.

    The Girl Who Wore Freedom. Christian Taylor's documentary about Normandy and the people liberated on D-Day, the film her son's unexpected assignment helped set in motion.

    About Documentary First: The Deep Dive:

    Each week, host Christian Taylor takes an insight from a recent Documentary First interview and explores it through story, philosophy, culture, and the universal human experience. It is a companion show to Documentary First, built for documentary filmmakers, lovers of story, and anyone who wants to think more deeply about what we watch. Christian Taylor is a documentary filmmaker (The Girl Who Wore Freedom), actor, voice actor, and podcast host based in the United States.

    Resources Mentioned:

    Documentary First Episode 280 with Andrew Gans: https://pod.fo/e/433e78

    Voices: The Danny Gans Story, documentary directed by Andrew Davies Gans

    The Girl Who Wore Freedom, documentary directed by Christian Taylor

    Christian Taylor on IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3041250/

    Listen and Follow:

    Documentary First everywhere you listen: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first

    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

    Support the show on Patreon:

    https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

    Connect:

    Documentary First on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

    Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor


    Ep. 280 I Danny Gans, the Man of Many Voices, Lost His Own. His Son Set Out to Find It. Jun 18, 2026
    Show notes

    He Could Become Anyone on Stage. What Was He Hiding Offstage?

    Danny Gans was the Man of Many Voices, the highest-paid headliner on the Las Vegas Strip, and the first performer to sell a $100 ticket on the Strip. He could become almost anyone on stage. Privately, he carried a pain he kept hidden. In Voices: The Danny Gans Story, his son Andrew Davies Gans sets out to tell that whole story, the legend and the man, in his directorial debut.

    In Episode 280, Christian Taylor sits down with director and producer Andrew Davies Gans to talk about the documentary he made about his father. Andrew shares how a baseball injury and his father's death in the same month set him on the path to filmmaking, why he chose to put himself and his family inside the frame, and how the film became a search for the truth about Danny's chronic pain and the legacy he left behind.

    The conversation traces a three-generation pattern of athletic dreams cut short and lives reinvented in entertainment, from Danny's father singing in the Catskills to Danny's rise from a severed Achilles to the top of the Strip. Andrew talks about comedian Louie Anderson's advice to tell the story the hard way, the Scent of a Woman speech that became one of the film's most powerful edits, and the decision to show his father's chronic pain honestly rather than hide it. It is a conversation about grief, fatherhood, and what we owe the people who came before us.

    In this episode, you'll learn:

    • How Danny Gans went from a minor league baseball career to becoming the Man of Many Voices in Las Vegas
    • Why three generations of the Gans family traded athletic dreams for lives on stage
    • How Danny Gans became the first performer to sell a $100 ticket on the Las Vegas Strip
    • What it takes to direct your first documentary about your own father
    • Why Andrew Davies Gans chose to put himself and his family inside the film
    • What comedian Louie Anderson taught Andrew about telling a story the hard way
    • How the Scent of a Woman speech became one of the film's most powerful moments
    • Why Andrew decided to tell the truth about his father's struggle with chronic pain
    • How an editor earned a writing credit in the documentary edit room
    • What a three-and-a-half-hour first cut taught Andrew about finding the real film

    Chapters

    0:00 Losing his father and his baseball dream in the same month

    2:09 From a Major League dream to filmmaking: a son finds his father's story

    5:34 Three generations of dreamers: the grandfather, the Catskills, and a family that reinvents itself

    7:22 The White Sox draft, a severed Achilles, and Danny's rise to the Man of Many Voices

    10:54 Why Andrew made the film: a 10th anniversary, a teaser, and a COVID shutdown

    14:17 Trailer: Voices: The Danny Gans Story, the $100 ticket legend, and a word from Virgil Films

    18:27 Rebuilding after COVID, and becoming a father mid-production

    20:42 Choosing vulnerability: the decision to put himself in the film

    22:57 Louie Anderson and the choice to tell the story the hard way

    26:30 The hardest truth: the Al Pacino 'Scent of a Woman' edit, chronic pain, and one of millions

    35:20 First-time filmmaking lessons: why you shouldn't be 100% prepared

    38:16 Inside the edit room: movie magic and a writing credit for the editor

    41:48 The Vegas voices: Tony Orlando, Donny Osmond, and Steve Wynn

    48:37 What's next: narrative films, the festival run, and distribution

    52:37 DocuView Déjà Vu: Shuffle and Searching for Sugar Man

    Frequently Asked Questions

    Who was Danny Gans?

    Danny Gans was a singer, actor, and impressionist billed as The Man of Many Voices. He was named Las Vegas Entertainer of the Year roughly a dozen times and was the first performer to sell a $100 ticket on the Las Vegas Strip, headlining sold-out shows for years at the Mirage and the Encore at Wynn Las Vegas. A former minor league baseball player, he turned to entertainment after a career-ending injury.

    How did Danny Gans die?

    Danny Gans died on May 1, 2009, at age 52, in his sleep at his home in Henderson, Nevada. The Clark County coroner ruled the death accidental, caused by a toxic reaction to the prescription painkiller hydromorphone, which Gans took for chronic pain syndrome. Underlying heart disease and a blood disorder were contributing factors. The coroner stated clearly that this was not a case of drug abuse.

    What is Voices: The Danny Gans Story about?

    Voices: The Danny Gans Story is a documentary directed by Danny's son, Andrew Davies Gans, in his directorial debut. It traces Danny's improbable rise from a baseball injury to Las Vegas stardom, then becomes a personal account as Andrew searches for the truth about his father's hidden struggle with chronic pain. The film is as much about grief, fatherhood, and legacy as it is about a legendary career.

    Who directed the Danny Gans documentary?

    The documentary was directed by Andrew Davies Gans, Danny Gans's son, in his directorial debut after producing roughly a dozen films. Andrew appears in the film himself, wrestling on camera with how much of his father's private life to reveal. That decision becomes a central thread in the second half of the movie.

    Where can I watch Voices: The Danny Gans Story?

    Voices: The Danny Gans Story premiered in June 2025 at Dances with Films at the TCL Chinese Theatre and went on to screen at festivals including the Austin Film Festival, along with additional special screenings. At the time of this conversation, a wider distribution deal was being finalized. Check the film's official channels for the latest on where to watch.

    DocuView Déjà Vu Picks

    • Shuffle, a documentary about fraud in the drug rehabilitation industry (not yet released at the time of recording)
    • Searching for Sugar Man, the documentary about musician Sixto Rodriguez

    Sponsored by Virgil Films Entertainment

    This episode is sponsored by Virgil Films Entertainment, with over 25 years of distribution experience and a catalog that includes Super Size Me, the Oscar-nominated Restrepo, and Forks Over Knives. Learn more at https://virgilfilms.com.

    About Andrew Davies Gans

    Andrew Davies Gans is a film director and producer based in Los Angeles, and the founder of Glanzrock Productions. Voices: The Danny Gans Story is his directorial debut, following a career producing roughly a dozen films. A drafted baseball player whose career ended in injury, he turned to acting, then screenwriting, then producing, before stepping behind the camera to tell his father's story.

    Find Andrew Davies Gans and Glanzrock Productions:

    Website: https://glanzrock.productions

    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gans_andrew

    LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-davies-gans

    Glanzrock Productions on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/p/Glanzrock-Productions-100063642647635/

    About Danny Gans

    Danny Gans was a Las Vegas singer, actor, and impressionist known as The Man of Many Voices. He was named Las Vegas Entertainer of the Year roughly a dozen times and headlined sold-out theaters built for him at the Mirage and the Encore at Wynn Las Vegas. Known for a wholesome, faith-centered public image, he died in 2009 at the age of 52.

    About Documentary First

    Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the craft, business, and truth of filmmaking, hosted by documentary filmmaker Christian Taylor. Each episode is a conversation with someone who holds another piece of the filmmaking puzzle, from first-time directors to Emmy and Peabody winners. Christian Taylor is a documentary filmmaker (The Girl Who Wore Freedom), actor, voice actor, and podcast host. Learn more at https://documentaryfirst.com.

    Resources Mentioned

    • Voices: The Danny Gans Story (IMDb): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt36590609/
    • Scent of a Woman (1992), the source of the right path speech
    • Searching for Sugar Man, documentary on Sixto Rodriguez
    • Shuffle, documentary on fraud in the drug rehabilitation industry (in progress at time of recording)
    • Louie Anderson, comedian (1953 to 2022)
    • Tony Orlando, Donny Osmond, and Lance Burton, performers featured in the film
    • Steve Wynn, who built theaters for Danny Gans at the Mirage and the Encore
    • Virgil Films Entertainment: https://virgilfilms.com
    • Dances with Films, Austin Film Festival, Julian Dubuque International Film Festival, and San Luis Obispo International Film Festival

    Listen and Follow

    Documentary First: https://podfollow.com/documentary-first

    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

    Support the Show on Patreon

    https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

    Connect

    Documentary First on all platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

    Connect with Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor


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