Difficult Conversations

Latest Episodes:

Ep. 7 | Apologetics for a Divided World Nov 21, 2024

Show notes

When it’s about winning people for Jesus.

The Greek word for “apologetics” means “to give a defense” and comes from 1 Peter 3:15–16, which starts “But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have…”

Apologetics in this passage begins with reverence for Christ, and its focus isn’t on defeating others but providing hope. There is no more consequential conversation than the one about who Jesus is and what he wants for us.

Still, we tend to think of apologetics conversations with a battle mentality. In this final episode of Difficult Conversations, experienced apologists show us a better way — one that’s not about winning arguments, but winning hearts and minds for Jesus.

Sean McDowell, a Christian apologist out of Biola University, unpacks perspective-taking, cancel culture, and how to diffuse conversations that go off the rails. Podcast host Justin Brierley shares lessons learned from two decades of hosting hundreds of high-profile debates between Christians, atheists and agnostics.

And, you’ll hear a powerful testimony from Preston Perry, co-host of With the Perrys alongside Jackie Hill Perry, on how God transformed his life by showing him the very heart of what it means to be a Christian.

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Resources

Full interview with Sean McDowell on YouTube
Full interview with Justin Brierley on YouTube
Full interview with Preston Perry on the Maybe God Podcast
“End the Stalemate: Move Past Cancel Culture to Meaningful Conversations” by Sean McDowell and Tim Muehlhoff
“The Surprising Rebirth of Belief in God: Why New Atheism Grew Old and Secular Thinkers Are Considering Christianity Again” by Justin Brierley
“How to Tell the Truth: The Story of How God Saved Me to Win Hearts – Not Just Arguments” by Preston Perry
How the Gospel Answers Culture’s Questions, NAE podcast with Rebecca McLaughlin
“The Secular Creed: Engaging 5 Contemporary Claims” article by Rebecca McLaughlin

Show Notes: http://NAE.org/apologetics-podcast

Ep. 6 | Spiritual Battles or Culture Wars? Nov 18, 2024

Show notes

Over the past century, American Christians — along with others — have largely embraced the culture war model, bringing a particular edge to the way we engage with the world. The list of topics in which we argue over — both within and outside the faith — seems endless. What can we do about the argumentative spirit present in our churches?

In this episode of Difficult Conversations, host Walter Kim interviews Dr. Darrell Bock, one of today’s leading biblical scholars. Together they explore lessons from Scripture on how we can realign our approach to the way of Jesus, holding true to our faith and presenting a compelling witness to the world.

You’ll also hear observations from Robert Cunningham, vicar of Church of the Good Shepherd in Charlottesville, Virginia, and Frankie Powell, a pastor to pastors and leader of the Global Church Network, on navigating church life in the midst of culture wars.

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Show Notes: http://nae.org/culture-war-podcast

Resources

Full interview with Dr. Darrell Bock on YouTube
For further study, see 1 Peter 3, Ephesians 6, Romans 1, Luke 4 and Acts 4
List of Dr. Darrell Bock’s books
“Biblical Faith for Our Common Life in Complex Times” article by Walter Kim
“The Secular Creed: Engaging 5 Contemporary Claims” article by Rebecca McLaughlin
Love and Truth in the Most Difficult Issues, NAE podcast with Justin Giboney

Special Message from NAE President Walter Kim Nov 08, 2024

Show notes

It’s no accident that we produced the Difficult Conversations series during an election season, with its heightened tensions and palpable polarization. In this special message, NAE President Walter Kim takes a few minutes to speak to this moment following the election.

However you may be feeling about the election results, God remains our refuge. His kingdom is greater, higher than any earthly kingdom. Now having concluded one set of difficult conversations leading up to the election, we embark on another set of difficult conversations with new opportunities to be the peacemakers that Jesus called blessed.

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Give us a 5 star rating on Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. If you listen on Spotify, give us a follow and hit the notification bell to be sure you never miss an episode. This is the best way for others to discover this series too. And don’t forget to pass your favorite episodes along to friends and family.

Click Here for Show Notes

Resources

A Call to Prayer for President-Elect Trump and All Elected Leaders, NAE statement
For the Health of the Nation
RightNow Media + NAE video curriculum on For the Health of the Nation
Following the God Who Transforms, NAE 10-day devotional
How to Live Well With Enemies edition of the NAE magazine

Ep. 5 | How Should Christians Engage Politically? Nov 04, 2024

Show notes

Neither political idolatry nor political disengagement make for peace. What does?

If we’re all reading the same Bible, why do Christians disagree when it comes to politics? If we worship the same God, how can we come to such different conclusions? And why have so many Christians in America given up on voting altogether?

This episode of Difficult Conversations opens with stories from pastors on what this election season has been like for them. It also features an in-depth conversation between Brent Leatherwood, president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, an organization that helps Southern Baptist churches apply Christian principles to questions of public policy, and Kaitlyn Schiess, author of “The Ballot and the Bible” and co-host of The Holy Post podcast.

Though Kaitlyn and Brent often speak to different populations of Christians, they come to some surprising areas of agreement on political idolatry, political disengagement, and the biblical mandate for our participation in politics.

This episode also brings in important insights from leaders like Dr. Christina Edmondson and Agustín Quiles on how different lived experiences yield different decisions at the ballot box. Plus, Pastor Derwin Gray of Transformation Church shares his perspective on political idolatry and what we can do to be peacemakers in our country.

Show Notes: https://www.nae.org/ep5-christians-politics-brent-leatherwood-kaitlyn-schiess-difficult-conversations-podcast/

Resources

For the Health of the Nation
Full conversation with Brent Leatherwood and Kaitlyn Schiess on YouTube
Full interview with Pastor Derwin Gray on YouTube
How to Live Well With Enemies edition of the NAE magazine
Spiritual Formation for Public Life, NAE podcast with Kaitlyn Schiess
“The Bible and the Ballot” by Kaitlyn Schiess
The Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention

Bonus Episode | God on the Move with Daniel Yang Oct 30, 2024

Show notes

In this bonus episode, Daniel Yang shares his family’s refugee journey from Laos to Thailand and finally to East Moline, Illinois, where a church welcomed and helped them navigate life in the United States. Daniel’s father soon became a Christian, and in just seven years, the family was an integral part of a Hmong church plant.

Daniel is now the national director of Churches of Welcome at World Relief, and previously served as the director of the Church Multiplication Institute at the Wheaton College Billy Graham Center. His story demonstrates how crossing boundaries in Jesus’ name can transform lives and bear fruit for generations to come.

Along with Host Walter Kim, Daniel explores our responsibility to welcome the most vulnerable, the role of immigrant and multiethnic churches in American Christianity, and how we should always keep our focus on the vision of the greater Church that is to come.

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Find Show Notes Here: NAE.org/b2-global-church-daniel-yang-difficult-conversations-podcast/

Resources

Churches of Welcome, a World Relief initiative
“Inalienable: How Marginalized Kingdom Voices Can Help Save the American Church” by Daniel Yang, Eric Costanzo and Matthew Soerens
“The Multiethnic Church Movement Hasn’t Lived up to Its Promise” article by Korie Little Edwards
A Multicultural Vision for the Church edition of the NAE magazine
I Am Your Immigrant Neighbor video series

Ep. 4 | Are Multiethnic Churches the Answer to Division? Oct 24, 2024

Show notes

Turning the script on the most segregated hour.When Martin Luther King Jr. famously called the 11 o’clock hour on Sunday the most segregated hour in America, it illuminated the great division in our country. Decades after the Civil Rights Movement, churches remain more segregated than neighborhoods and public schools. How does this play into the polarized climate of our nation today? What would happen if Christians bridged the gap?

This episode of Difficult Conversations features candid discussions between members and leaders of Mosaic Church, a multiethnic church in Little Rock, Arkansas, on the messiness and the beauty that comes from working and worshiping with people from different backgrounds. And Pastor Mark DeYmaz shares what compelled him to leave a comfortable, culturally homogenous church to plant Mosaic in the first place.

You’ll also hear Pastor Derwin Gray’s journey from pro-football player to multiethnic church planter and his challenge for Christians to view the world through the lens of Jesus’ kingdom — not race, politics or any other thing. Lisa Fields, president of Jude 3 Project, calls attention to why this matters for the Church’s witness.

Show notes here: https://nae.org/multiethnic-church-podcast

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Resources

Full interview with Pastor Derwin Gray on YouTube
A Multicultural Vision for the Church edition of the NAE magazine
“Building a Healthy Multi-Ethnic Church” by Mark DeYmaz
“How to Heal Our Racial Divide” by Derwin Gray
From Deconstruction to Reconstruction, NAE podcast with Lisa Fields
Jude 3 Project
NAE Racial Justice & Reconciliation Collaborative
Cultural Intelligence Center

Ep. 3 | What’s Christian Nationalism Anyway? Oct 17, 2024

Show notes

In 2020, Pastor Caleb Campbell watched Christian nationalism take over large swaths of his congregation in Phoenix, Arizona. He thought about giving up on the church, but over the years, he came to see himself as a missionary to Christian nationalists.

In Episode 3 of our Difficult Conversations series, Caleb shares his journey from skinhead to pastor, and from accusations of demonic influence to restored relationships. Along with Dr. Sheila Heen at Harvard Negotiation Project, he offers a hopeful way to engage with those who hold extreme views.

And you'll also hear Gabriel Salguero of National Latino Evangelical Coalition describe his own encounter with extreme views.

Listen on your favorite podcast app. Show notes here: http://nae.org/christian-nationalism-podcast

#difficultconversations #peacemakers #polarized #divided #church #christiannationalism

Bonus Episode | Understanding the Rural Experience With Carl Greene Oct 09, 2024

Show notes

In this bonus episode, NAE President Walter Kim hosts an extended conversation with Carl Greene on the shifts that have been happening in rural America. Carl is a rural ministry researcher and advocate, having served as a rural pastor with his family and enjoyed life as a dairy farmer in partnership with his father and brother.

Carl talks about his experience growing up in Upstate New York and how he has grappled with his identity as a rural white American. He also sheds light on the complexities and diversity within rural America, the sense of loss that many rural residents feel, and the lure of Christian nationalism as a response to that loss.

This conversation peels back misconceptions of rural-urban divide and offers greater clarity for those seeking to be peacemakers among Americans with different lived experiences.

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Go to Show Notes

Watch More

Are You TRAPPED in High Conflict? | Amanda Ripley

Dr. Francis Collins Talks With Outspoken COVID Response Critic

Ep. 2 | The Pandemic Divide Oct 03, 2024

Show notes

From mask mandates and school closures to social distancing and vaccines, COVID brought about one of the most contentious divides we have experienced in recent American history. Countless relationships between families and friends and within churches and communities were tested, and many of those relationships remain fractured.

This episode of Difficult Conversations features two Christians who sat on opposite sides of the COVID divide. As director of the National Institutes of Health from 2009 to 2021, Dr. Francis Collins played a pivotal role in the COVID response. Wilk Wilkinson, who lives in rural Minnesota, was intensely critical of how the government handled COVID and is the host of Derate the Hate podcast.

You’ll also hear from Amanda Ripley, a New York Times bestselling author and contributor for The Washington Post, about conflict entrepreneurs, the role of the media, and how to turn high conflict into good conflict.

What can we learn from how we handled COVID in our churches, communities and national discourse? Is repair possible for the relationships that remain fractured? Our guests say that it’s not only possible but it’s essential to overcome the deep polarization in our country.

Go to Show Notes

Go to full interview of Amanda Ripley

Go to full interview of Dr. Francis Collins & Wilk Wilkinson

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Ep. 1 | Why Are We So Polarized? Sep 26, 2024

Show notes

The primary allegiances of Americans used to be to country and religion. Now Americans’ primary allegiance is to their political party. How did that happen? And what has it done to the state of conversations in our country? What has it done to our churches? Is there hope for the next generation?

In this inaugural episode of Difficult Conversations, host Walter Kim interviews Dr. Jonathan Haidt, one of the world’s top experts on the psychology of morality and politics, to explore how we ended up so divided, including how technology and social media has shaped us and is shaping the next generation.

You’ll also meet Heather Zempel, discipleship pastor at National Community Church, located in the heart of Washington, D.C. Over the years, NCC has successfully encouraged church members, from both sides of the aisle, to engage with one another through small groups and Bible studies. But as she shares, that’s gotten more difficult as our world has become more polarized.

Both Jonathan and Heather leave those who want to be peacemakers in our divided country with some practical next steps. Their recommendations may surprise you.

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Go to full interview

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