Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt

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EP:22 The $45 Million Medical Debt with Victor Martinez, Crossroads Church Jul 07, 2020

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EP:22 The $45 Million Medical Debt with Victor Martinez Welcome to Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. Today's episode is brought to you by Mvelopes. That's M, like Mary, v-e-l-o-p-e-s. Mvelopes uses the tried and true envelope budget system. All in one easy app. Give every dollar a purpose. Mvelopes.com. And now, here's Mary. Mary Hunt: [00:00:28] Hi, and welcome to another episode of Debt-Proof Living. I am so happy that you joined me again today, and guess what we're going to talk about? Debt. Yeah, that's really what we talk about a lot. How to get out of debt, how to stay out of debt and live a life where you are not bound by all of the trappings that happen so we get into debt. So, um, many of you have, have read Debt-Proof Living. You've been with me for many, many years. So I just want to do a little bit of a review talking about debt and what it does to our lives. You know, basically it takes away our options and the deeper in debt we become, the fewer options we have. That's really, really scary, but the good news is that you can get out of debt. You know, my story, you know, that I got out of an awful lot of debt. I am, I'm just so struck by the fact that these days debt is so easy to get into, and I'm not talking about emergency kinds of debt. I'm talking about credit card debt, you know, I just don't have the money today. I'm sure I'll have it next week. So I'll just put it on a credit card. That's probably the most, most dangerous because it's so easy to get into. Society has, our culture has really put a stamp of approval on it. But then there's other kinds of debt. There's a student loans, student loan debt, which has become very, very popular. And, and then there's, you know, buying a new home and then you've got the home debt and then you've got all kinds of things. You know, I hear from people all the time who are having trouble paying their property taxes. So they put that on payment and then they put their, their, uh, federal income taxes that they owe on payments. Cause they just don't have haven't and pretty soon it just, it builds. It's crazy how debt can take over our lives. And for a lot of people, when they're in this kind of situation, there's things called medical emergencies. That's what we're going to talk about today is medical debt. How does that affect their lives? You know, statistically, I can tell you this. If you look it up, if you Google it, you're going to find out that medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in our country. Well, you can kind of figure that out because if people are already in debt, boy, getting hit with a big 30, $40,000 medical debt, and really be the straw that tips over and puts you into that horrible, horrible situation of, of bankruptcy having to make those kinds of choices. Um, one estimate is that more than one in four Americans have trouble paying a recent medical bill. I can understand that. Um, And, and sometimes those medical bills get pushed because not paying them is not going to give you a consequence as great is not paying your rent or not paying your car payment. And some research says 32% of American workers have medical debt. And over half have defaulted on it. That's not good for a medical industry in this country to having people default and having to go through all of that kind of thing. So the last stats statistic I'm going to tell you is that among Americans with medical debt, 15% owed $10,000 or more. That is a huge heavy, heavy burden. I've got the most exciting news to tell you about a great, great story. I read about this in the paper. I did, and it hit the news big time and the headline was a church, a church paid off medical debt of many of their parishoners. It hit, it hit every news station and it was just fantastic. I read about it and I was so, I was so excited because I wanted to know more, you know, all the questions. How did the church choose who got to have their paid off? How did that happen? I mean, did you have a lot of new members all of a sudden? So here's the exciting part. I don't have to wonder. And you don't either, because today my very special guest, from Cincinnati, Ohio is Victor Martinez. He is on staff and the Community Development Director for Crossroads Church in Cincinnati, Ohio. And I have a feeling you're just going to love hearing from him. Welcome, welcome Victor! So glad to have you today on my podcast. Victor Martinez: [00:04:55] Thank you. Very excited to be here with you today. Mary Hunt: [00:04:58] Um, I just want to set this up and then you're going to tell us all about it, but I've got a million questions. I'll, I'll try to control myself, Crossroads received some BIG media coverage in February. I just told you about that. I loved it. Crossroads Church was able to work in their community to get more than $45 million of medical debt forgiven in their area. I want you to tell me all about it. Can you just set this up for us a little bit? How this came to be, how you got involved, how you happen to be on staff there and all of that. We want to know all of it, Victor. Victor Martinez: [00:05:40] Yeah, absolutely. Um, well, I'll, I'll start with a little bit of the background of, um, how did I come about to be in this team? So, um, I'm not a pastor, I'm not a social worker by trade. I went to school for engineering. So I graduated with a mechanical engineering degree and I worked several years in the corporate worldand as an engineer, making diapers and making also cleaning products like, like Swiffer, um, and that kind of stuff for a company called Proctor&Gamble. And about a year and a half ago, I moved to actually work on staff full time at Crossroads Church. And at that point, then my job became looking for opportunities in which we can be part of helping our city with different things. And medical debt is something that is not only affecting our city. Like you share some of these statistics. It's actually affecting our entire nation. And it's unfortunate, because for most of the debt, and I'll say maybe all of the medical debt. We don't choose to get sick, it's just happens to us. So it's just very difficult situation. And, um, we heard of a church in Indiana. Actually, we saw it on the news. that they wiped out $4 million of medical debt. And we actually thought, well, how much debt does the people in Cincinnati do people in Cincinnati, half. And we found out that actually $65 million of medical debt and just the city of Cincinnati alone. And we felt we needed to do something about it. So we talked with our senior leaders, our Senior Pastor Brian Tome. He was super excited. He wanted to make this happen very quickly. So we got to work on it. Alright, this Mary Hunt: [00:07:19] brings me to a big question here. The church helped to pay off medical debt to the tune of $45 million. Does that mean that Crossroads Church has a bank account with that much extra money in it. And you just wrote out checks to all these people's debtors. Victor Martinez: [00:07:38] Yeah, absolutely not. No. Like most churches our pockets are not super deep. There's a few things that happened here. So one is, uh, we partnered with an organization called RIP Medical Debt and they have been working with a lot of organizations on paying off medical debt for individuals that, um, many of them are not able to pay it off. And they are able to purchase , and so acquire debt for a ratio about one for every hundred dollars of debt, they, they're able to purchase it for $1. So 1:100 is, is the ratio. So that's one aspect. That we don't have to invest $46 million to get rid of $46 million of medical debt. And then the other, the other aspect is that really, um, we didn't usethe budget of the church for doing this. This was really the people in our community that stepped up to give of their money, to come alongside folks that are, we're not able to pay their debt, to pay it off. And I think that's really the, the thing to highlight in the story is the generosity of, of people. Um, when, when we know that there are people that need help, that are hurting our community really just, just rallied around them. So it was very beautiful to see that. Mary Hunt: [00:08:56] That's amazing. So you were able to, in essence, I suppose, just putting it simply to negotiate the debt for these people. So if they owed a thousand dollars, the hospital or the doctors were willing to accept $100 to pay that off, is that, is that what you're saying? Victor Martinez: [00:09:19] Yeah. And that's typically how there's this industry works in terms of, um, when hospitals or places find out that people are not able to pay the debt. They will go and sell this to a collections agency. Um, so if we're in debt, we probably have seen a letter in our mail or two that say, Hey, you owe this debt. This is how much you have to pay. It affects your credit and all that kind of stuff that, you know, I'm pretty sure that, you know, a lot about. So in a similar way, this organization, RIP is able to purchase this debt, but instead of going after people to ask them to pay for it, they go after people that actually can pay it for other people. And that's what we did. Mary Hunt: [00:10:00] I imagine it was Christians helping to with the Bible tells us where to bear one burdens. So that is a beautiful thing. Can you imagine if our whole health system was based on that, that those who are healthy, I guess technically that's how insurance works, the healthy, uh, cover the costs of those who are sick. But that's truly amazing. Julie Emerson: [00:10:26] Let's take a quick break for just a minute. Hi, I'm Julie producer of Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. You know, many of us have the experience in our lives of living paycheck to paycheck and many people. I know it well, have a difficult time following a budget. But not managing our money as a leading cause of stress in our lives.That's why Mvelopes created a simple, affordable envelope budgeting program that just works. Mvelopes helps you take control of your future by giving every dollar a purpose, every dollar, a purpose, people who use Mvelopes see monthly savings of 10% of their spending within six weeks of getting started and they report less anxiety. Now, currently Mvelopes is extending their free trial to 60 days for all of their subscriptions. So there's never been a better time to start on a new path. Just click the link in the show notes and sign up today. Risk-free .Okay. Now let's get back to our conversation. Mary Hunt: [00:11:32] Now I've got some other questions for you. Alright. I'm sitting in a service and I know that Crossroads Church is huge. You have multiple campuses and a big organization. So here I'm just picturing myself sitting in this beautiful big auditorium. Personally way down by my debt situation. And I read in the, in the bulletin or in the program, or I hear someone from the platform say that we're going into this campaign or this event where others are, we're going to reach out and we're going to bear one another's burdens and we're going to help pay off medical debt. My ears would perk up and Whoa, that would be so amazing. So how did you decide who would be qualified or who would be eligible for this program or was it open ended and anyone who had debt? It would be paid off. I don't quite understand that part. Victor Martinez: [00:12:40] Yeah, absolutely multiple things here. One, uh, I think to answer the bulk of the question, which is how to, how do we know who we're going to bless? Um, we, we didn't know who, who was going to receive a blessing. So this information is confidential and we didn't have access to it. We just knew that there was an amount of money that was outstanding in debt out there. This is where our partner RIP Medical Debt comes in and they handle all that portion. And. So we, we, we determine, Hey, we have different campuses in different location. We want to see what's in debt around these locations. And we're just going to see how much we fundraise and how much they were able to pay off. And that's how it was. So, um, In the case of that, there were somebody who had medical debt, for example, in our community, that said, Hey, can I, can I be a part of this? Which had happened. Which it happened. Um, We were not in a position to necessarily, like, purchase their debt just the way this program works. So what we did is we many years ago, Uh, we started a, um, place in Cincinnati called the City Link Center and it was with the intent of helping people get out of poverty, specifically, uh, fight generational poverty. Uh, so we have a lot of resources for folks that are going through different hardships to, to get some access to tools and help. So for those folks that were not able to be blessed through, through that program. We had an opportunity for, to come alongside them. And I think many times some of this debt leads to other challenges. So really the purpose of City Link there was to just partner with them, be there with them, for them to meet, uh, to help them with their needs. Mary Hunt: [00:14:27] That is just wonderful. Part of my Debt-Proof Living program and what I've taught people and have led people out of debt. The absolute essence are these five elements of Debt-Proof Living and one of them is giving., How important it is that we all learn to give because that's what kills greed in our lives. And previous podcasts, my listeners know, if you've listened to The Seven Money Rules Series, part of everything you bring into your life, everything is handed to you. All of your income. Part of it needs to be given away. And that, that is amazing to me. That's the way one of the ways to stay out of debt is also in a way to get out of debt. And so, um, when I think of Crossroads Church teaching stewardship, that we should be givers. How important is that to your whole program at the church? Victor Martinez: [00:15:24] Yeah, I, it's very important. Um, it's a big biblical principle. Uh, you know, the, the Bible is full of wisdom. There's just a lot of different topics that you could pick and you can, you can just get some good insights into, and for those of us that are believers, these, these wisdoms become principles of life and how we want to live. So one of them is. giving, to your point. Um, and we talk a lot about the principle of tithing, which builds discipline. You know, it's not just a faith thing, it's also a math thing. You know, it builds discipline in terms of how can, can we do this? Um, what also is you alluded to this it's this concept of us giving away the things that we have because ultimately eventually actually either we will give them more or when we kick the bucket, you know, they, they go away, you know, they go out to somebody else. So we, I say this is something that is true for. I will say that from my understanding of the Christian world. But even I see this in other faith expressions, how the importance of, of giving money out to other people and not even knowing what happens. And that was actually the context of this initiative. We were, we were talking about money. We spent six weeks talking about money in a church, which is it. We don't do often, as you can imagine, is a. It's a very interesting topic to have in the church setting. In that weekend in particular, where we announced that we were going to, to try to see how much money we could come up with. We were talking about the power of multiplication and how, when we giv…

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EP:21 The $5Dollar Dinner Mom, Erin Chase Jul 07, 2020

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EP:21 The $5 Dollar Dinner Mom, guest Erin Chase Julie Emerson: [00:00:00] Welcome to Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. Today's episode is brought to you by Mvelopes. That's M, like Mary, v-e-l-o-p-e-s. Mvelopes uses the tried and true envelope budget system all in one easy app. Give every dollar a purpose! Mvelopes.com. And now, Here's Mary! Mary Hunt: [00:00:27]Hello, Everybody! I'm so happy you're with me today. This is Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. And this is very, very exciting because guess what? We have a guest . I'm so thrilled that Erin Chase is the $5 dinner mom is going to join us today. Welcome Erin! Erin Chase: [00:00:47]Hello. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to chat today. Mary Hunt: [00:00:53]This is great. I have followed you for so long. You won't believe it. But first I want to, I want to let my readers, my listeners know more about Erin. Erin Chase, she's known as the $5 Dinner Mom is - I know, nobody can believe it. We're going to have to get into that with her. She says that she has a little problem. She cannot make a meal that costs more than $5. Even if she tries her brain just will no longer allow it. Through her websites and classes, $5dinners.com, $5mealplan, Grocery Budget Makeover, My Freeze Easy, My Efficient Kitchen, Electric Pressure Cooking 101. Erin now is on a mission to help us spend a whole lot less of our hard earned money on groceries. Erin is a Texas native graduate of Texas Christian University. You know, the TCU Horned Frogs. A few short months after graduation, she found herself-Whoa- in the Dominican Republic as a missionary and a high school teacher. She learned all she needed to know about meal planning and grocery shopping on a budget. All in a third world country using foreign currency. Back in the late summer of 2008, Aaron began couponing loving the challenge of coming up with meals that costs under $5, $5 for the entire meal. That's just not per person. And one night as she was cleaning up the dishes from dinner, she thought of this phrase $5 dinners. The first website was born. Now she and her husband and their four boys live in Texas. And when she's not couponing, grocery shopping or blogging. Erin enjoys date nights, training for and running half marathons, hanging out outside, reading and hanging out with her girlfriends. I'm so happy you're here, Erin. I can't wait to learn more. First. I have a little story to tell. I was sitting at my computer. I can almost tell you about the year. I'm not gonna, I might be a little bit off. But I was getting a lot of email, a lot of things popping up and there was this [00:03:00] TV chef named Rachel Ray, who popped up on my screen. I don't know why, but she had a guest on her show. And it was this amazing woman. Young girl actually looks just not the same as you look today. Exactly. She had her on her show and it was just the most amazing thing that she was confident that she could make dinners for $5, not just per person. And you blew Rachel Ray and her audience away. Now tell me, had you been doing this for a long time or was this kind of new for you? Erin Chase: [00:03:40]Well, when I, first of all, I love that you caught that segment. They- I've been on Rachel's show twice. And the first time was in April of 2009 and I started $5 dinners in August of 2008. So it wasn't that long after. And they featured me in that first segment in a People Who Were Saving Money Across America. It was just, you know, random people. I just happened to have a blog that went with it and really how I ended up there is I just, she and, Whoopi Goldberg was a guest on her show. We're talking, you know, around the same time I started the blog, they were talking about, like a fat tax ,or something like that. Like insurance companies were going to charge people if they didn't lose weight. And like, this was, you know, 2008 and they were talking about how eating healthy was too expensive. And I was like, excuse me, I have a few things to say about that. So I wrote in on there, like. On their website, just like wrote into the, like, have me on your show. I wasn't, I mean, I maybe wanted to be on the show, but I didn't really know. And. Six months after. So that was, that would have been August. So it was not long. I, we taped and it aired very quickly. So probably March, they called me and were like, Hey, we'd like what you have to say to me, like what you're doing, we're going to send a crew to your house. And I was like, wait, what? So yeah, there I was. And then I went back again to share some recipes from one of my cookbooks, a couple of years later when those were published. Mary Hunt: [00:05:13]Well, that helped to launch your career. Definitely. But I'll tell you something, Erin, I have followed you. I am so excited that we may be able to do things together in the future for my audience, because you fill a niche that nobody else does. But now listen, I mean, you've got to be absolutely truthful with me here. You have four sons and a husband. Okay. Five male eaters and yourself, $5 for a dinner. Tell us what, what does that mean? Does that mean $5 for just, a one dish or is that, is that the meal? Explain that to us. Erin Chase: [00:05:57]So I think that it's more of a different way of thinking about your groceries and a different way of thinking about how much you're spending on a meal. So when I started $5 dinners, it was in 2008 and I had two very young boys. now those boys are teenagers. And they, you know, it was a little bit different now I would say I'm making six, seven, maybe $8 dinners. It just cause I need more protein to feed these people. But the idea is don't get hung up on the $5, but I want you to hang up on and I want you to dial in on is how much are you spending per meal and what can you do to reduce the overall meal costs? Right? So when $5dinners very first started, and I still try to go for these price points, but it really we'll get into this in a little bit, but the protein cost is really the most important cause that's generally the most expensive part of any meal. So $5 a breakdown of a $5 meal would be 2.50 a person for protein. A $1.50ish for veggies or fruit, and then $1ish [00:07:00] for starch and starch is generally whatever the carbs are. Let's say, if you're doing a, you know, kind of a food plate balanced meal, so starches are super cheap. I mean, you can do rice for four people for 20 cents, right? Like, or less even. So it really, if you're just keeping it very simple and that's what I want you to think about. I want you to think about. What can I do to reduce costs kind of around your plate, if you will? And the easiest to start with is the meat, the meat, because, and that's also the most expensive. So I think it's the most important to start with. And I think that's what I want you to do. I want you to say, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to think about my meals. I'm not going to spend more than maybe you need to do $10. Maybe it's $8. Like for me right now, it's eight, the max, but I try to get it closer to five or six. we, you know, it, I think it's all about balance too. So if you do have like a more expensive meal, we really love salmon. that's just one of, that's probably our favorite seafood across the [00:08:00] entire family. And so if I'm going to put salmon on the menu one week, then I'm also gonna do like a big old rice and beans that week as well. Does that make sense? So it kind of balances out that way too. Mary Hunt: [00:08:17] I love this. And I have enough questions to ask you for a thousand more podcasts. I mean, my brain is just overflowing because not only do I have my own questions and what I want you to tell my audience, I have my email inbox that is just loaded with people who are hungry, no pun intended to learn how they can do better with their money. And so I want them to know you want them to find you. We're going to do everything we can in our power going forward to make sure that they can do that. So I just have a couple of really fun questions for you. maybe not so fun, but they'll be fun for us. Tell us the details. Do you shop like once every year and get everything all at once or do you do it every day or every week? Do you have a plan? Do you go to many, many stores? Those are the, I'll stop it there. Erin Chase: [00:09:18]I think you have to find the right cadence for yourself. And I don't want to say you have to do it this way. Cause I don't, there's lots of personalities and lots of scenarios. Some people live in the country and really can only get to a good store once a month kind of deal my personal shopping M.O. and it has been this way for almost the entire time of my $5 dinners life is weekly shopping with one warehouse run. Which I've, I think, I have been a warehouse store member for maybe seven, eight, eight years now. One of those about every six weeks. So I'll go to the warehouse store every six weeks, maybe five. It kind of depends on this during this pandemic time, it's been a little bit more frequently, but then I'm getting less at the grocery store. I've kind of shifted it around a little bit with the whole stocking up sort of scenario that we're currently in. And, but typically I prefer to get groceries once a week, get the fresh produce. Meat most of the time comes from a warehouse store, but then I'll sometimes mix it in from the grocery store. It really kinda depends on what's on sale and you know, how I'm doing freezer meals is what it really comes down to for me is when that, when it's happening. So really it's a, for me, it's a cycle of weekly meal planning mixed in with kind of a freezer meal set up once-ish a month. Every five, six weeks, depending on when I'm doing my warehouse store run. And so that's been my cadence because that works really well for me. Both my personality with my schedule with, the sales cycles and all of those things just kind of fit to that particular cadence. other, you know, depending on your situation, I we've heard a lot from people that the going once a week is not enough. And so we also recommend doing [00:11:00] like every four-ish days, every three to four days, so maybe twice a week shopping. and in that case, You would want to be really a lot more granular with what you're buying so that you don't start overbuying. Does that make sense? And so you just have to be really mindful about when you do make a change like this in the way that you're shopping for food, being mindful that it's, it's working for you and you're not overspending. And it's kinda not working against you, if you will. And you know, we, I personally experienced that this last couple of months with having to shift. both budget dollars and the way I shop with the whole stocking up thing and not going out to eat anymore. And all those different things that's kind of shifted around, but it was very mindful of that shift happening. And I'm very mindful that that shifts it's already shifting back to my typical cadence. And so, I really think you've just got to consider those different factors and make your food dollars and your time shopping, whether that's planning and putting in a grocery pickup order, or you're getting into the store and buzzing through it, as fast as you can, you know, with your mask on and your sanitizer in hand, you know, like whatever it is but just being very mindful of the way that you are spending your food dollars. Julie Emerson: [00:12:36]Let's take a quick break for just a minute. Okay. Hi, I'm Julie. Producer a Debt Proof Living with Mary Hunt. You know, many of us have the experience in our lives of living paycheck to paycheck. Many people. I know it well, have a difficult time following a budget. But not managing our money as a leading cause of stress in our lives. That's why Mvelopes created a simple, affordable envelope budgeting program that just works. Mvelopes helps you take control of your future by giving every dollar a purpose, every dollar. A purpose. People who use envelope, see monthly savings of 10% of their spending within six weeks of getting started and they report less anxiety. And currently Mvelopes is extending their free trial to 60 days for all of their subscriptions. So there's never been a better time to start on a new path. Just click the link in the show notes and sign up today. Risk-free. Okay. Now let's get back to our conversation. Mary Hunt: [00:13:41] You know, you mentioned that the pandemic and. it, it has changed our lives, in, in lots of ways. And I know that you lost your father recently. you've been through a lot. You had, I think you had some housing issues, right? Didn't your house flood or something, you know, it's, it's, it's easy to stick to all these plans when life goes, as we plan. But I'm just thinking how wonderful it is. And I, I want to ask you the impact that your, that this whole thing, where you have your money in control and you're doing all that. Did, Did that make things easier? I mean, I just want to know how, how do you get to really, really tough times without just throwing it all up in there as that can't do this anymore, you know? I can't stand this budgeting thing anymore. I mean, how have you gotten through this? Erin Chase:[00:14:36] Well, what, Oh, goodness. Then where were we? How long do we have? yeah, we have had a very rough six months. our house flooded, well, six months ago this week, and then I lost my dad unexpectedly a couple months after that. And then the pandemic hit the following month. And so it was, it's just been a very, grief-ridden on multiple levels. You know, the loss, we didn't lose anything in our house per se, but just the loss of routine and the loss of Just being, we had to move into a rental home. So being somewhere else, you know, that's that. And then of course, grief from losing my dad. Has just it's, that's still obviously going on and then of course the grief of just losing our, our lives, everybody, what, what, however it, the pandemic affected you, everybody was affected in some way. And I think that, in some ways, you know, the very first thing that I did when the whole pandemic thing hit was what are we not spending money on now? That's the very first thing I wrote down. Like maybe the first weekend or so. And I finally cued in of, like how things are changing. Things are changing very fast. What are we not spending money on? We're not going out to eat. We're not buzzing through drive-throughs we're not picking up, a snack at the gas station, like all these different things. I wasn't going to the gym. And so that was the first thing, that I did. And I think that what ultimately it comes down to, you know, both on the, on the money level and on the, just like get me through the day level. really is two things is, is grabbing the silver lining, whatever that may be. So with our house, the silver lining was, I got a pretty much a whole new house. mostly covered by insurance. We did a couple of new upgrades, but it was very clear to me very quickly that despite there was water everywhere and like rugs were soaked and gross. I could still see that we would be getting a new house out of this, you know, and I, with, with, with my dad, Restored not restored. There were never any bad relationships, but just renewed friendships and relationships with my siblings and family members. Such a gift. Even despite all of the, the grief in, in the, it was very dramati…

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EP:20 Giving Away My Age with SeedTime's Bob Lotich Jul 07, 2020

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EP:20 Giving Away My Age with guest Bob Lotich, Seedtime.com Welcome to Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. Today's episode is brought to you by Mvelopes. That's M, like Mary, v-e-l-o-p-e-s. Mvelopes uses the tried and true envelope budget system all in one easy app. Give every dollar a purpose! Mvelopes.com. And now, Here's Mary! Mary Hunt: [00:00:32] Everyone. I'm so happy to have you back with me on this episode of Debt Proof Living. And boy, am I excited! This is a first for us. We're new to this business anyway, but this is an absolute first. We're having an interview! I have invited a guy that I have known of and spoken with, not met face to face yet. Perhaps that'll happen someday soon, but I have followed Bob Lotich on his blogs now for several years, lots of years. And I gotta tell you this guy's got it all together. I love what Bob teaches. He, he comes at personal finance and money management from a Biblical viewpoint. Now I'm not saying that this is a church service or a Bible study necessarily, but I'm telling you Bob and I share so many values because we are both followers of Jesus Christ. And if that cannot help, but to color our lives and the way that we handle everything, the way that we manage our money. And the way that we teach. So I am thrilled to death to have Bob with us today. Now, let me tell you a little bit about him. He is a certified educator in personal finance. That means he gets to put at the end of his name, CEPF and he started a blog called SeedTime. it was originally called Christian Personal Finance or ChristianPF is probably the way you might remember it way back in 2007. That was not that long ago because I started way back in 1997 online. So. We go back a long time. But anyway, his passion is to help fellow believers like me and like many of you to learn how to manage your money wisely., His personal mission and the mission of his blog Seedtime, is to make, save, grow and give money to benefit others. Isn't that awesome? I love that. Make, save, grow and give. After all says Bob, life, isn't about the accumulation of things, but it's about how much we can make a difference in this world by giving. And I gotta put my parentheses in here. We are certainly in a time right now during this global disruption, our lives have been so disrupted. what better time then we can look at the whole world to find ways that we can help and give and serve. In 2017 SeedTime donated 36% of all e-course sales to Feed My Starving Children, which has provided 79,000 meals to hungry kids around the world. That is just amazing. Amazing. Once Bob realized that by paying off his debt, he could fund God's kingdom instead of paying interest to banks, it provided a deeper level of motivation for him and his wife to get out of debt. That sealed the deal. Bob and Linda spent the next couple of years paying off their $46,000 of debt in their first years of marriage. Bob also has a passion for helping entrepreneurs, get their business ideas off the ground. And he's written two fabulous books, helping bloggers and want-to-be-bloggers build and grow their blogs. So if you have that in your mind, you really, really need to check out Bob Lotich. Anyway, when Bob isn't working, he is likely hanging out with his wife, Linda, their kids, Alden, Valerie, and Oliver. Working on his garden. Eating some artisanal dark chocolate .Playing his guitar or riding his motorcycle. And sometimes, you ready? All at the same time! Now I have to see a picture of this. And so without any further hesitation or delay welcome, Bob! Bob Lotich: [00:04:13] Mary, thank you so much. It is an honor to be here. It's an honor to be speaking with you. You've been a role model and a mentor for many, many years, and I'm just thrilled to be able to chat. Mary Hunt: [00:04:24] we're so happy to have you here. Bob, there's so much that you could teach us about. All of us! And, you know, I put myself in that too, because some of these lessons, we have to keep learning over and over and over again. And, and with what we've gone through recently, I am certain that many people listening to me now are much more aware of the need to plan, prepare to manage their money well. So let's get right to it. What was your inspiration for beginning your blog SeedTime, and then tell us where did that name, that word come from, SeedTime? The name of that you named your blog. Bob Lotich: [00:04:59] So in terms of actually starting the blog, like you alluded to it originally was Christian PF. And, and for me, I, I was in a mess financially. I was just in debt up to my eyeballs and just didn't know how to move out of that spot in life. And once I discovered that the Bible actually talked a lot about money and, and then once I discovered that some of this advice was actually still relevant for today. So even this book, that's thousands of years old and actually had timely and relevant, you know, age old wisdom that was still beneficial for us today. then I started getting interested in this and, and I was, you know, learning a whole bunch of practical things about money. I was reading every magazine and book I could get my hands on. But then I was also digging into the Bible to see what that had to say about everything. And I sort of started combining these two ideas, these two sources of information. And that's what kind of led me to create this blog. Cause I just wanted to share what I was learning with anyone who would listen. And that's kind of how we got it off the ground. Now, we did change the name to SeedTime a few years ago, we kind of rebranded and that comes from a verse in Genesis. Genesis 8:22. And, it's where God's talking about how there will always be the law of seed time and harvest. And that's kind of where that comes from. This idea. That the fascinating thing for me is that, pretty much, if you look at everything that God does, it almost always starts with the seed. you know, and so you can apply that to so many areas, but our financial, our finances and our. financial growth or any growth in any area of our life. It always starts with something really, really small. And that's where the power is, being able to take that small thing and to start and to just care for that, to water that seed and to keep caring for that and to let that grow into the mighty oak that it will become. Mary Hunt: [00:06:46] That is fabulous. You know, as you were saying that I can't help, but think some of the things that I've been telling my grandchildren and my kids and myself in this past few months, Is that we have to grab onto the things that we know will never change. We're looking at things that can change and have changed in ways that we'd probably never dreamed, but you're absolutely right. Seed time. We should count on that. We can count on the sun coming up in the morning, going down at night. There are things that God has given us that will never, ever change. How wonderful to grab onto that. That, that is, that is really, really that's fabulous. So you've kind of already alluded to this. I was going to ask you what role has debt and savings played in your life? So let's, let's look at that debt thing. I, you know, I've been there as well. How did debt affect you personally? And can you contrast that with where you are now? And I need emotionally, day to day, the difference between debt and debt free for you and Linda. Bob Lotich: [00:07:50] Yeah. you know, and like we had talked before, I know a little bit of your story and, what it was like for you and, yeah. And coming back to the Bible, this was one of the first verses that I discovered where it's like, that makes so much sense. You know, it was a verse in Proverbs where it talks about how the borrower is slave to the lender. And when I read that, like, that's exactly how I feel. That's exactly how I feel like, you know, the bank owns my car and they own my house and they, you know, all these credit card companies are hanging this thing over my head and the student loans. All this stuff. It's like, I felt like every dollar that I had was someone else's and I felt like I'm going to work to give money to these companies. And it was a very, yeah. Relative to where we are now, we are now 100% debt free by the grace of God and we're tickled pink and enjoying it. But, but comparing the two different things, it's very clear. That, that was a very unsettling feeling. and I knew that then, but like, especially contrasting it to being a hundred percent debt free. It's just so much different. And you know, my encouragement to people all the time is it's good. Like, I'm sure you think that it's good when you pay for your dad, but it is just, it's so good. It's so much better. It feels so much richer than I think most people imagine. And I think if everybody knew how great it would be, feel to be a hundred percent debt free. I think a lot more people would be chasing it. Mary Hunt: [00:09:15 ]I couldn't agree with you more. And I'm looking right now and reading my in inbox, my email from people who, who came into this time of life is shut down of our country, losing their jobs and all with tons of debt and no savings. And that's horrific. I mean, we're starting to see the fallout of that. I'm wondering if you and Linda did, was it just, is it, has this just been a little blip in the road? Because you are prepared, you have savings. You are not depending, on a paycheck every Friday or whatever like that. And I really like our listeners to understand how important it is to plan. Bob Lotich: [00:09:54] You know, that was part of being able to pay off our debt or what will got us excited about paying off our debt. Cause it would be able to build up a bigger emergency fund. for stuff like this, you know, and so we were able to do that and, you know, and we've gone through hiccups, like, I went through a pretty scary layoff. that kind of was my transition into being an entrepreneur. And that was the same type of thing where that, that emergency fund, really helped us considerably get through that phase of a lot of personal uncertainty. And now we're in kind of global uncertainty and, you know, the government keeps throwing money at us, but. Like, that's not going to last forever. That's not going to solve our problems. And it's like, it's nice. Then it will help some people, but that's not a long term solution. Like we need to be, figuring these things out for ourselves and getting in a solid financial spot ourselves so we can better handle these things. And yeah, in our case, It has been, yeah, personally it still affects us. It's like, you're not immune to it when you're debt free, but, but it's definitely on a much lower level and scale than it would be if we were still carrying all the debt we were before. Like, I don't want to think about how we would be thinking and how we'd be handling this. If we. Had that, that load that we had before. Julie Emerson: Let's take a quick break for just a minute. Okay. Hi, I'm Julie. Producer a Debt Proof Living with Mary Hunt. You know, many of us have the experience in our lives of living paycheck to paycheck. Many people. I know it well, have a difficult time following a budget. But not managing our money as a leading cause of stress in our lives. That's why Mvelopes created a simple, affordable envelope budgeting program that just works. Mvelopes helps you take control of your future by giving every dollar a purpose, every dollar. A purpose. People who use envelope, see monthly savings of 10% of their spending within six weeks of getting started and they report less anxiety. And currently Mvelopes is extending their free trial to 60 days for all of their subscriptions. So there's never been a better time to start on a new path. Just click the link in the show notes and sign up today. Risk-free. Okay. Now let's get back to our conversation. Mary Hunt: [00:12:15] yeah. I have a question for you that I get quite often, especially from younger folks, I think that they're facing life. You know, how do I manage debt? Not how do I live without debt? It's become a way of life for them, but this is the question, you know, Jesus told us, why do you worry? Don't you know, that the father takes care of even the birds. They don't worry. They don't wonder where the next meal is coming. Why are you worried? Don't worry about tomorrow. Yeah, but then we read in another part of the Bible, like in the Psalms that says, or the Proverbs, you know, that look at the ant, they don't, they don't play all summer. They are gathering for the winter that's coming. How do you explain, how do we plan for the future? But yet trust God for the future. Where, where is that balance? And are we foolish to say, God will take care of tomorrow and spend it all today that He's given me. Bob Lotich: [00:13:15] Yeah. That is a, a wonderful question. That. I wish I had the answer to, you know, this is something that we, Linda and I, even at this moment, like we still have discussions about this, where we are trying to figure out that perfect balance point of using wisdom. You know, like you have many instances, you have Joseph in the Bible, being instructed during the years of plenty to save up for the years of famine that were coming like. It's it's, you know, using wisdom to plan ahead, like the, you know, the Proverb you mentioned it's clearly a Biblical principle, but at the same time, like we can't trust in any of that. And I find for me personally, when I find myself trusting in my savings account too much. Trusting in my sort- my income source, whatever it is. if I am doing that too heavily, like God will correct me. Like, I will sense that like, Nope, I don't want you leaning on that. I want you leaning on me as your provider and to trust. And it's like, it's good that you're doing that and using wisdom, but yeah, for us, that's been just a constant thing where, where we're trying to find that perfect spot. And honestly, I don't know that there is a perfect spot. I think that those two pieces have to work together. And I think that, you know, the unfortunate answer for a lot of us is that it's a personal individualized thing that we're all in different places on our journey. And, if we are followers of Jesus, that that's something that we can trust that God is going to guide us on individually, you know, Holy spirit leading us in whatever direction. but yeah, it's a tough one. It's a really tough one. I wish there was a pat black and white answer, but, I don't think it's that clear cut. Mary Hunt: [00:14:55] Just interject and share this, that. As this whole shutdown thing happened so quickly in the U S in the early months of 2020, my husband and I, who w w we have emergency savings. I mean, you know, six months living expenses in the bank, I think is a pretty good benchmark. And as I look at it, now, I understand it's so much more why we need to plan, because we've been able to help others. Okay. And that giving thing, when we lived in California, we went to Saddleback Church. And so Rick Warren was my pastor and I still consider him that way. And I'll never, ever forget something that he said in a sermon that has just, it impacted my life. So seriously, he says, this. Money is a test and a trust. God puts money into your life to see if he can trust you with it. And if you spend it all on yourself and you squander it and you have nothing to show for tomorrow, He…

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EP:19 How to Take Control of Your Money, Part 8 Apr 01, 2020

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Please take our very short survey! http://survey.libsyn.com/debtproofliving

Welcome to Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. Today's episode is brought to you by Mvelopes. That's M, like Mary, V E L O P E S. Mvelopes uses the tried and true envelope budget system. All in one easy app. Give every dollar a purpose. Mvelopes.com. And now here's Mary.

Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt was created and hosted by, Mary Hunt. Produced by Julie Emerson, with Harold Hunt, Executive Producer.

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EP:18 How to Take Control of Your Money, Part 7 Mar 31, 2020

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Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt was created and hosted by, Mary Hunt. Produced by Julie Emerson, with Harold Hunt, Executive Producer.

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EP:17 How to Take Control of Your Money, Part 6 Mar 31, 2020

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Please take our very short survey! http://survey.libsyn.com/debtproofliving

Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt was created and hosted by, Mary Hunt. Produced by Julie Emerson, with Harold Hunt, Executive Producer.

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EP:16 How to Take Control of Your Money, Part 5 Mar 31, 2020

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Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt was created and hosted by, Mary Hunt. Produced by Julie Emerson, with Harold Hunt, Executive Producer.

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EP: 15 How to Take Control of Your Money, Part 4 Mar 17, 2020

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Please take our very short survey! http://survey.libsyn.com/debtproofliving

0:00 Mary: So in today's episode, we are going to take on our most formidable enemy.

Julie: Welcome to Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. Today's episode is brought to you by Mvelopes. That's M, like Mary, V E L O P E S. Envelopes uses the tried and true envelope budget system. All in one easy app. Give every dollar a purpose. Mvelopes.com. And now here's Mary.

0:30 Mary: Hi everyone! Here we are with another episode in our ongoing series on the Seven Money Rules for LIfe. Last episode you probably will remember and if you don't maybe you want to go back and listen to that. We talked about the two enemies. Our two enemies when it comes to managing money and they are fear. Remember that, Julie?

Julie: I remember!

Mary: Fear. And today, we are going to talk about greed, the other enemy.

1:01 The way that we deal with the fear part. The fear of running out of money. The fear of never having enough. Fear of losing your job. Whatever having to do with money and we feel fearful. The way to counteract that is to start saving money. Money in the bank changes everything! So that was our second rule of life. The third money rule is Give Some Away. Ok? So easy. Three words.

1:30 Give some away. Oh, I know what you're thinking, and I only know that because I know myself. I can promise you that when I was in the most trouble with money, making a lot of money had nothing to do with where we were. Because obviously we were not managing it correctly. But I could tell you that I would have said with complete certainty: We do not have enough money to give any away! If we had that much money, we wouldn't be in financial trouble.

2:03 If we could give, if we could be philanthropists, if we could do all of that kind of thing, wouldn't that be fabulous but, no, we cannot. We'll do that someday. Honestly, I really thought that. When I get rich, I'm going to give all kinds of money away. I'm going to be the kind of person who donates big chunks to every cause and charity under the sun. Guess what? That never happened. Absolutely not!

2:30 Because the thing that was so prevalent in my life, called greed, it took over everything. It colored everything. So, I want to talk about greed. How we need to get rid of that because I'm telling you what—it will sabotage your situation. While fear and greed sound like they are identical twins, they're really not. Fear, Fear speaks to the future.

2:59 We're fearful of what's coming in the future. We've got to fix it so something bad doesn't happen. Where greed sabotages the present. Right today. Because it steals something so important in our loves called contentment. As long as we're filled with greed, contentment can't get in and invade our lives and give us the kind of joy and peace that we long for. Contentment says I am grateful for what I have. I want what I have. I have enough to satisfy.

3:31 You know what greed says? Greed says more is not enough. I deserve even more. I want it all. I don't care what it takes to get it. I deserve it. I'm going to get it now. And you know what happens? We start looking to credit and that is the fastest way to get into debt. You know, I've got to have a new house. Got to have a new car. My kids have to go to that school. Got to have these shoes. I've got to have this. Uh! Greed is such a horrible, horrible enemy and greed is never good.

3:58 Julie, do you remember that Gordon Gekko? Remember that?

Julie: Yes, from Wall Street?

Mary: He was the main antagonist of that 1987 film called Wall Street and his whole thing was greed is good. Let me tell you something. Movies are movies. Greed is not good. I don't think greed is ever, ever good.

Julie: You know, the funny thing about that is greed, just the image of that in my mind is that greed looks like THAT. Greed looks like someone else. It couldn't possibly be me.

Mary: That's right and it looks ugly in someone else, doesn't it?

Julie: It does!

4:29 Mary: We don't see that in ourselves.

Julie: No!

Mary: Because we call it something else. We call it like, being good to my children.

Julie: Yes.

Mary: Wanting to provide a wonderful life for my family.

Julie: Treating yourself.

Mary: Isn't is amazing the things that, the way we can skew our thinking. It takes going through an awful lot of pain to sometimes turn it around and I don't want you to go through pain, my dear listeners here. So, I want to talk to you about greed.

4:56 Greed drives us to do the dumbest things with our money. It really does. It makes us believe that I don't have the money this month so I'm going to put this $1000 thing on credit and pay it off next month really fast. What makes us think that we'll have it next month? Because we have all these crazy things in our head. I'm telling you something. Greed is terrible. Contentment is wonderful and that's what you can have today. I don't care what your situation is. You really, really can have contentment today. Contentment says, you know, I may not have it all, but I have enough. I may not have the best.

5:30 I may not have what I want, but you know what? Right now, all is well. Don't we want to have that feeling? Let me tell you how we can get that. It's rule number three: Give Some Away. Now, we talked last episode about saving. The goal is that you will save, put away, not spend, get out of your wallet. Get it out of your checking account, 10% of your take home pay and everything that comes Into your life.

6:01 All the money that comes into your life that you are able to manage, 10% you need to save. Now brace, because I'm going to add to that rule number three. We're going to give some away. I want this to become the goal of your life: is that you will get to the point where everything that comes into your life you save 10% and give away 10%. And for some of you that are saying, that's right, and I do that, and God has blessed my life unbelievably because I am willing to step out in faith.

6:35 Not knowing where my income is going to come from a year from now, which we all want to know, don't we? We want to know how much it's going to be, but we can't know that. I'll tell you something. That is such a small price to pay for something that will happen in your life that will change things forever.

Julie: Let's take a quick break for just a minute. Hi, I'm Julie producer of Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. You know, many of us have the experience in our lives of living paycheck to paycheck and many people. I know it well, have a difficult time following a budget. But not managing our money as a leading cause of stress in our lives.That's why Mvelopes created a simple, affordable envelope budgeting program that just works. Mvelopes helps you take control of your future by giving every dollar a purpose, every dollar, a purpose, people who use Mvelopes see monthly savings of 10% of their spending within six weeks of getting started and they report less anxiety.

Now, currently Mvelopes is extending their free trial to 60 days for all of their subscriptions. So there's never been a better time to start on a new path. Just click the link in the show notes and sign up today. Risk-free .Okay. Now let's get back to our conversation.

Mary: It's called contentment. It's called joy. You will absolutely develop a personal compassion. You'll be putting other people's needs ahead of your own.

7:05 Because I don't care how bad off you are—where you are right now. The worries you have. The fear of financial money problems you have. The fears you have. There's always someone in worse shape than you are. Now, you're probably thinking, OK, let's say I could do it. Where am I going to give? What do I give?

7:23 Do you know that was that was my oldest son's biggest problem? His question when years and years ago, we put him on a financial plan where to manage money every month. His rule was that he had to save 10% and give 10% away. His first question was where am I going to give it? We said, we're not gonna tell you. We'll tell you what we do. Mommy and daddy, what we do. How we do this. But we want you to see beyond yourself. Who's in need? What if you have a friend at school whose dad just got laid off and they're really, really in bad shape. Maybe your heart will say I need to help. I need to give. There's all kinds of needs out there.

8:04 Now my husband and I, we give to our church because we really feel that is what God would have us to do. We give to other ministries or where our heart is touched. So I would say, what moves you? Is there a pregnancy center in your town that's really, really struggling? Are there missionaries? You know, I'm not going to say where to go. But I tell you something. Once you have money to give away, you're gonna look at the world in a whole different way. When you give it, you want to make sure that you're doing that responsibly.

8:38 I'm so excited to just convey to you what giving is going to do in your life. It's going to take your eyes off your self, your pitiful situation. You're going to have a heart of generosity. You're gonna have a heart of compassion. You're gonna want to keep doing it over and over again for how wonderful it makes you feel to give.

8:59 It is remarkable how it will it'll pull the drain plug on your greed. It will just drain away. It really will. Now let's talk again about the amount. I don't want you ever to think that if you aren't giving 10% you don't give anything. That you have to wait til you can give a full 10%. No, No, No, No. I want you to start today. You know, $1? Remember we talked about that with starting savings. Start with what you can.

9:30 Give it out of a heart of gratitude. Out of a heart of I don't know where the need is. I want my heart stirred. I want to know that I am doing something to help someone else who is in worse shape than I am. No one will have to tell you what to do. You'll know. You'll know! If it's only one dollar and you see I don't know where I can give just one dollar. Put it in an envelope. Next payday put another dollar. You will have that so that when the need comes across your mind, when it comes across your life you will have the ability to be able to give.

10:10 So there it is, rule number 3. Give some away. Start doing it. Your life will never be the same.

Julie: Mary, you spoke to this at the end there and I was thinking as you were getting, as you're wrapping it up. Which is more important? The habit of giving or the amount of giving? You spoke to that a little bit with a dollar in the envelope.

Mary: Yeah. I think habit of giving is so much more important. The amount becomes nebulous. Because once you get into the habit of giving and once you start realizing that it's in giving that we receive, and I don't mean necessarily material things, but we receive joy. We receive a change of heart when we're not looking at ourselves. So I would say the habit of doing it is 1000 times more important than the amount.

11:05 I'll tell you something. Once you catch the joy of giving and how that enhances your life, you won't be able to stop. You'll wish you could give more. You'll have a heart, instead of saying, I wish I didn't have to give this dollar away (Julie: yeah) it'll be I wish it was 1000. I wish I could give so much more. You will start looking for ways that you can give. So absolutely, the habit of giving will change your life just as the habit of saving becomes almost addictive.

11:35 These two steps of managing your money—which if you've been counting—we're giving away 10%, we're saving 10%. Guess what? That's called the 10-10-80 rule. You give away 10. You save 10. You live on 80% of your income. Now that doesn't mean that you spend 80% (Julie: Right) but that's the part that you have discretion over. The other two are solid rules in your life that are unbreakable. The minute you can get to that and you start saying 10-10-80, I wish I could show you all the letters I received over the years who said that brought everything into focus for me.

12:15 Because I had a formula. I love a formula. Have you ever tried to make a beautiful desert without a recipe? It doesn't work. You know you just start dumping stuff in it and then you get discouraged and you waste. When you have a specific formula, it's like a road map. It's like the directions, you know. It makes it easy. I just tipped my hand. 10-10-80. It's a formula that'll really change your life.

I'll see you next time!

Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt was created and hosted by, Mary Hunt. Produced by Julie Emerson, with Harold Hunt, Executive Producer.

Thanks for listening!

Everyday Cheapskate participates in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon affiliated sites.

EP: 14 How to Take Control of Your Money, Part 3 Mar 17, 2020

Show notes

Please take our very short survey! http://survey.libsyn.com/debtproofliving 0:00 Mary: And for people who say I need my whole paycheck to live, you're living way beyond your means. Because savings is part of your bills. It needs to be number one. Julie: Welcome to Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. It's all about life, money and how to live well and thrive below your means. Today on Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt, we continue our ongoing series: How to Take Control of Your Money. Our series is based on one of Mary's best-selling books 7 Money Rules for Life, How to Take Control of Your Financial Future. And that book is available online or wherever fine books are sold. Today's episode is brought to you by Mvelopes. That's M, like Mary, V E L O P E S. Mvelopes uses the tried and true envelope budget system. All in one easy app. Give every dollar a purpose. Mvelopes.com. And now here's Mary. 0:41 Mary: Thank you, Julie. Hello everybody! I'm so glad that you're back with me for this episode in our ongoing series based on the 7 Money Rules for Life. Now, if you didn't catch the last episode where we covered the first rule, I'd love it if you go back and listen to that. But we're going to do a little review for all of us anyway. That first money rules for life is ready? Here we go— spend less than you earn. 1:11 It sounds so simple. Just spend less than you earn. But let me be cautious to assure you that it's not that easy. We live in a society, in a culture, that really wants us not only to spend all that we earn plus a whole lot more. Creating a lot of debt. Creating a lot of income for a lot of industries. We can get into that some other day. The rule is simple. Spend less than you earn. But Julie, let me remind you and all of our listeners. That's not the same as don't spend more than you earn. 1:50 They sound about the same, but it's not the same. If we were to say well I'm not going to spend more than I earn and that means you're going to spend every last nickel that you get as you get it. That is the problem. That is why so many Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. You know, I have to talk about myself as well because if you caught the very first episode of the series you know my story. You know the trouble I got into. It- it takes my breath away to remember and to recall that not only did I make sure we spent all that my husband earned. At the time I was not working. But I spent way beyond that because I thought the limit on my credit cards was my money to spend as well. That's just really, really crazy. So let's get the rule number one back into our minds. Spend less than you earn that indicates there is a gap. There's a gap between what you earn and what you spend. That is the beautiful gap. That is the place where financial freedom is going to be found for you. That is where you go to find solvency. That's where you are going to find joy and peace. That is the key to everything we're gonna talk about in this whole series. 2:58 Julie: I love that gap, Mary. I love that idea of having that gap and that margin, mainly because it reduces the stress in your life. (Mary: absolutely) it is so different, because you hear people say don't spend more than you earn. Live within your means or any of those things but that— like you say— that means, OK, if I get $1000 I have $1000 to spend. That creates stress in your future if you don't allow yourself that margin. Mary: Absolutely true. absolutely true, Julie. I have to say that all the seven, because I know what they are. I know and I will tell you the number one is the absolute most important of all for several reasons. The first reason is spending less then you earn— if you violate that rule you're stuck. You're absolutely stuck because you cannot allow the other rules to live out in your life. Because they're all based on the first rule. Spend less than you earn. Another reason is that without rule number one you're making an arrogant presumption on the future. 4:01 What you're saying is that I can spend all that I earn. I can spend all that we have. Get it down to absolutely zero in the checking account. I'm not getting into debt because I'm not going over. But, guess what? You're making an arrogant presumption that tomorrow things will be as great as they are today. You're saying that the refrigerator is always going to run. The car will never need new tires. I will never need a brake job. The kids are never gonna have to go to the emergency room. Things are not never going to happen in my life over which I have no control— which is absolutely ridiculous. 4:35 I can see you smiling because you see how, well, ridiculous it is to think that way. Another reason that rule number one is so important is that it's the only way that you are ever going to find freedom from debt. Debt is a horrible thief, a monster. It is horrible thing in our lives. It is steals from our future. It steals from our children. It steals our happiness. It, it takes our joy. It leaves in its wake depression, fear, greed. All of these ugly attributes. How do we get that way? We believe a lie— that we can spend money we don't have today and pay things off later. 5:17 The last reason why rule number one is most important of all— is because living beyond your means leads to a life of misery. Total misery. Debt, depression and anxiety. OK. So we got that established. Rule number one. Spend less than you earn. Julie: You know, Mary, did you get a chance to try out your spend-free day? Mary: We talked about that last week, didn't we? 5:41 Julie: or no-spend day? I forget what we called it Mary: We talked about that the last episode didn't we? We called a spend-free. No spend. The whole day without spending any money and that means in any way. Can't pay the rent. Can't shop online. Can't commit to anything. (Julie: Nope) No bills. It's not easy. (it's not) Do you know what? I have done that so many times. I'll tell you the first time I ever tried, I thought there was no way I could keep living. I hate to say that. We become so used just running out and getting any little thing we want. 6:16 Running through, driving through a drive-thru. Ordering something online. I had several spend-free days this week. One reason is that I don't have my own separate car. My husband and I share a car. Crazy. That's made a big difference for me. Another difference is that now where I used to go to work every day where I would commute to work. During the first years of cheesecake monthly and all of that we have done here online; we had a separate office 12 1/2 miles away which gave me a lot of opportunities to spend on the way to work. Isn't that funny? 6:50 How we, you know, I need some new petunias. There's Home Depot! Julie: Right! There's a lot of places to get a snack or a drink or some kind of fun thing for yourself in 12 miles. Mary: Now, our our office is in our home since we relocated to Colorado. Oh, my goodness, it's just wonderful. I have a 13-step commute to work because the offices are in the lower level. So it's 13 steps down. So I know that I got a real short commute to work. Honestly, it has taken so many things out of my mind (areas in which I can spend) but I'll tell you that the temptations for me and the things that I think about: online shopping! 7:27 But, on a spend free day— no online shopping. So that has changed for me. I had to really think, but I had two, maybe even three full spend-free days during the time between now and when we did the last episode which is only a few days ago. So I'm happy. (Julie: I know) I'm happy. I know that I have cash in my wallet. There's something about cash. Green. Dollar bills.$20 bills. I have gotten to the point… 8:00 I'm telling you folks. This is such a remarkable change for me! Money used to burn a hole in my pocket. I could think of nothing else. If I had cash, that's all I could think about. How can I spend it? I've done a complete 180. Where that cash in my wallet— it spells freedom. It spells options for me and I don't like to be without cash. Well, if I'm spending it, then I'm without it. I don't know. I play games for myself. I'm kind of embarrassed to tell you that but I do. I hide money from myself. I put it in the back of my wallet where I can't see it, and then I go… guess what, I know is it I know it's back there. I learned it from my husband. Im going to tell all the secrets. 8:41 My husband, as long as I've known him which has been many decades. He has kept a $100 bill hidden in the back of his wallet. He knows he has it. I know he has it. We forget he has it. I would challenge my listeners. You think you can't save 100 bucks? Oh, yes you can if you are diligent and you really have a reason to do it. When you get it saved go to the bank and get a $100 bill. Tuck it into the most secret place. Don't tell anybody, unless you want to. 9:15 It will change everything, because no one that I know wants to break $100 bill to get a Coke and fries at McDonald's. You just think of something else to do. It's a great thing. All right, so we have a really, really gotten off the path here we're gonna move on now to rule number two. 9:30 We're going to move on now to rule number two. It's so easy. It's only four words, because remember all these rules do fit on the back of a business card. Rule number two: Save for the future. Save for the future. Four words: Save for the future. Repeat after me. Julie, repeat after me. Save for the future. Julie: Save for the future. Mary: Got it! Here's what it means. Something from everything you receive— and I'm talking everything— you need to first before you do anything else. This is the rule. You save some for the future. 10:15 Wow! Let me tell you why this is absolutely critical. So important. Not more important than rule number one, but absolutely the next most important thing of all. I know. Julie, have you felt like there's some kind of an invisible force out there conspiring against you? To make sure you never get ahead? To make sure you always have more things you have to buy? Money you have to pay? That somehow, no matter how well you plan, or what a good person you are things always happen? 10:47 Like car trouble? A leak in the roof? The refrigerator stopped working? Always something that's never gonna let you get ahead? Julie: I do feel that way. We had a few years like that just a couple, just recently we had car after car after car break. Or was in a wreck. I mean, yeah! Mary: it's terrible and let me tell you something you're not dreaming. It's absolutely true. I think that we all have two enemies and these two enemies have a single purpose. They work together. They're like comrades. Their names or fear and greed. They're liars and thieves. They go to extremes—amazing lengths to undermine and sabotage our efforts to take control of our money. Julie: Let's take a quick break for just a minute. Hi, I'm Julie producer of Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. You know, many of us have the experience in our lives of living paycheck to paycheck and many people. I know it well, have a difficult time following a budget. But not managing our money as a leading cause of stress in our lives.That's why Mvelopes created a simple, affordable envelope budgeting program that just works. Mvelopes helps you take control of your future by giving every dollar a purpose, every dollar, a purpose, people who use Mvelopes see monthly savings of 10% of their spending within six weeks of getting started and they report less anxiety. Now, currently Mvelopes is extending their free trial to 60 days for all of their subscriptions. So there's never been a better time to start on a new path. Just click the link in the show notes and sign up today. Risk-free .Okay. Now let's get back to our conversation. 11:35 Mary: The first is fear and that's what we're going to deal with today. Fear, and it goes like this. I'm afraid I'm going to run out of money. I'm afraid I won't have enough money left until my paycheck. I"m afraid my paycheck won't be big enough. I'm afraid that something will happen to my kids. I"m afraid that if I don't have this credit card with me that I won't have enough money to whatever it is. But it's always I'm afraid. I'm scared and let me tell you something. When you're spending every nickel you have? You have reason to be fearful, because we do not control our lives. We don't! 12:08 So fear, and this sounds counterintuitive, but I really believe that it's fear that prompts us to live way beyond our means. What happens is we're fearful, so we have to get another credit card. Oh, I need that credit card just to have that cushion of that credit limit just in case something happens. I need this because I'm afraid of that. Guess what? We have to slay that enemy. We have to put it to rest for certain and make sure it never comes around us again. 12:42 The way to do that is Rule #2. Save for the future. You know that $100 bill I just talked about in the back of my husband's wallet? Please don't tell him you know about it. Please! He'd be so upset with me. What that does is, that alleviates fear. Not in the way it might sound, but what I mean by that is—I'm prepared. I have a contingency. I have set some space between me and the edge. If I were to run out of gas, and I don't carry credit cards with me, what would I do? Well, it tells me I have money. 13:25 I have cash with me. I could take care of that situation. I might be able to help out somebody else. I might be able to help out my kids. Someone who is really, really….you know, I've seen my husband pull that $100 bill out of his wallet and give it away. There's something wonderful about that. I'm telling you the way past fear is by preparing for the future. 13:50 How do we implement this in our lives? How do we actually take this rule, save for the future, and put it to work? Well, I'm going to talk about a couple of things here. First of all, your next paycheck. The portion that you bring home. I'm not talking about the part of your paycheck that is withheld for taxes or that goes into your 401K. There's an argument to say that would be savings, but that's not money you can get your hands on. Ok? So it's not really going to alleviate short term fear. It might take care of your retirement fears. Maybe. I don't know. What I want to talk about is the money that you actually get into your hand. That you have control over. That you get to manage. 14:32 You are a money manager. You do know that right? Ok. You've got to be a good money manager. So here is the rule. We'll talk about implementing it in a moment. The rule is that 10% of everything that comes into your life. Im talking about a rebate. I'm talking about a refund. I'm talking about birthday money. I'm talking about any kind of money. This has to become a rule in your head.It's the first thing you do that you take 10% of it. Put it away for the future. 15:06 Ok, how do we define the future? Well, that could be tomorrow or it could be 10 years from now. It's the future. It's money you are not spending now. You are putting some distance between you and that money. It's in that distance that you have opportunity. You can change your mind. You have freedom. You can either spend it or not spend it. You have chosen not to spend it which opens up all kinds of option…

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EP: 13 How to Take Control of Your Money, Part 2 Mar 17, 2020

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Please take our very short survey! http://survey.libsyn.com/debtproofliving This episode was recorded in February 2020 prior to the widespread economic effects resulting from COVID-19 stay-at-home regulations. 0:01 It's the same thing with money... I'm promising you. Welcome to Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. Today's episode is brought to you by Mvelopes. That's M, like Mary, V E L O P E S. Envelopes uses the tried and true envelope budget system. All in one easy app. Give every dollar a purpose. Mvelopes.com. Today on Debt- Proof Living with Mary Hunt, we continue along our journey based on one of Mary's best selling books 7 Money Rules for Life, How to Take Control of Your Financial Future. That book is available online or wherever fine books are sold. This episode is part two of our series, How to Take Control of Your Money. 0:38 Mary: Hi everyone! This is Mary Hunt. I'm so happy you're with me today for this episode. We are putting together the series basically for how financial intelligence is going to improve your life. I know that sounds so academic, doesn't it? This is just basic basic rules for life having to do with your money. Think about this. If you have children or wherever a child yourself which I guess includes every single person you know. We grew up with rules. Probably the first one I ever remembered 0:56 having to do with your money think about this if you have children or wherever a child yourself which I guess includes every single person you know we grew up with rules and probably the first one I ever remembered learning was crossing the street. 1:10 There's a rule - you just don't run out, you stand there. Are you with me? You look left. You look right. You see if a car is coming and then you can proceed cautiously. We all know that. We don't have to relearn that every day of our lives. We just know it. It becomes instinctual. How about -oh, I don't know- touching a hot stove? You'll do it once, maybe, but that'll be all. Managing money is, it is very similar to that. There are underlying rules that, if broken, if not paid attention to, can really really mess up our lives and if you haven't listened to part 1 in this series 1:50 you might want to do that because how do I reveal just exactly how not following rules or in my case not knowing the rules— I didn't realize that there was a fine art to managing money that we all need to know about. So make sure you either go back and listen to that or a read about it. Whatever. But we're going to pick up today and I want to talk a little bit more about how to look at this. As we proceed and I only know this about you because I know myself. It's going to be easy to see everything I talk about and we discuss here through the lens of your current financial situation. 2:32 I don't know what that is but mine is much, much different than yours. It's very unique. You might have some student loans. You might have a couple of past due bills right now. Perhaps you're out of a job. Your situation is huge and it's easy to say there's just nothing that'll fix it now. It's too late. It's not too late. It's not. Believe me. So what I want you to do. I want us all to mentally do this. I call it clean sweep and I only take that because that was the name of a television show on cable years ago. (I loved it.) 3:13 The premise was that the show would go into the home of someone who is having trouble with the organization, had a big mess, maybe even on the brink of being a hoarder. It was called clean sweep and they would come in and the show would do a clean sweep. Re-organize. At the end of the show everything's perfect. You know they walk in and their new home… oh it was fabulous and I loved the show. But the premise was this. They never attempted to organize clutter. It's impossible. So taking that principle here to our series here on how to manage and take care of money. 3:52 In your mind I want you to just do a clean sweep. Just push everything out of the way. All the debts. Are the challenges. Whatever your situation might be. Even if it's fantastic. If you've got so much money in your savings account you don't think you'll ever ever ever have to worry or learn how to manage money. Get rid of that part too. Let's get just a nice clean canvas as we proceed. OK, ready? Here we go. 4:20 Rule Number One. It's not difficult. Here it is. Spend less than you earn. Five little words. They become so, so unthinkable in our society and where we are in the world today. Do you know credit has become such a huge part of our lives? I shared with you in part one just how it affected my life. This first rule is so simple. I hope it doesn't prompt you to just blurt out- oh come on Mary everyone knows that. 4:51 Well, I promise you not everybody knows it or at least lives according to that. So the first money rule for life is so logical but so misunderstood that so many people miss it. There's a lot of competition for your mind and your wallet these days and there's a big world out there that would rather you not pay too much attention to this first rule. Spend less than you earn. Let's talk about that. 5:30 There's many ways that people might refer to this. One of them is live within your means. If you live within your means, what that indicates is that you don't spend more than you earned. So let's say you earned $1000. If you live within your means, you spend $1000. Ok? Of course you could spend less, but that's your max. You can spend as much as you have. If you spend less than you earn which is our rule. Spend less than you earn. 6:09 It means that you spend LESS than $1000. Now am I splitting hairs? NO. I'm talking about a principal. The difference between what you spend and what you earn is a gap. OK, is it $1? Maybe it's $100. Maybe it's $500. I don't know, but there's a there's a gap there. Here's the principle. It's in that gap that you are going to find financial freedom. It's the money you don't spend that is going to allow you to live the life you love. That's the principle of rule number one. 6:50 So live below your means— is correct. Spend less than you earn. Live within your means means that you can spend it all. All right! The principle is we were looking at that gap. That part that you are not spending. Because… if you're following along in the book you're going to see some simple charts there that I hope will be very revealing. It's in the a gap that you're going to be able to build an emergency fund. It's in the gap that you're going to learn how to start investing. It is in that gap that you are going to back away from debt. You're going to be able to pay off your debt. You're going to be able to go forward to live debt free. 7:30 You're going to eventually be able to live in a mortgage free home. See all those things are available if you stop spending all that you have or even worse— spending more than you have by going into debt. All right. So that is rule number one. Let's talk about how we do this. Oh my goodness. First thing we have to deal with is: what's the difference between needs and wants? That has become so blurred in our world during the last— oh I'd say— couple of decades. 8:03 but even more so in the last year or so because we're living in an amazing economy in the US. I don't know how long this is going to last, but people are working. Unemployment is almost unheard of thing. People are getting raises. The wages are going up because of supply and demand. When there are fewer people to work employers must pay more to get good employees. So it is just part of life. So, it's easy to think: Oh you know what? Let's move into a bigger home. Let's let's get some new furniture. Things are going so great. We'll be able to pay it off in a short period of time. 8:42 A great economy doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to stop spending more than we have. In fact, just the opposite is more likely. So we need to get rid of our ugly attitudes of entitlement. You know, I deal with that a lot when I when I wrote about my book for children: How to Raise Financially Confident Kids. We need kids to get rid of those attitudes of entitlement, but you know what? Adults have them too! Do you know— oh me, I just got an awful old iPhone 8 I need the… What what's the latest one, Julie? 11? 12? 14? 98? Julie: I don't even know cause I have a 6 Mary: Oh dear, I don't… you know….they do become part of our lives. That's a subject for another time. 9:26 but…just think of all the things that our lives absolutely do not depend on, that we find the absolute needs not wants. Julie: You're so right. Let's take a quick break for just a minute. Hi, I'm Julie producer of Debt-Proof Living with Mary Hunt. You know, many of us have the experience in our lives of living paycheck to paycheck and many people. I know it well, have a difficult time following a budget. But not managing our money as a leading cause of stress in our lives.That's why Mvelopes created a simple, affordable envelope budgeting program that just works. Mvelopes helps you take control of your future by giving every dollar a purpose, every dollar, a purpose, people who use Mvelopes see monthly savings of 10% of their spending within six weeks of getting started and they report less anxiety. Now, currently Mvelopes is extending their free trial to 60 days for all of their subscriptions. So there's never been a better time to start on a new path. Just click the link in the show notes and sign up today. Risk-free .Okay. Now let's get back to our conversation. Mary: Dealing with needs and wants is not easy. I got to tell you what I did when I was in my really rough time when I was making this journey myself. I want to tell you about a quick little flow chart that I created years and years and years ago when I was in, that you know, dealing with this whole issue of coming out of that dark night of financial distress. There is a copy of it on page 57 of the book if you're interested. 10:04 You could photocopy it. Write it up yourself. It's just a flow chart. It starts out, do I need it? If I say yes, then I go on to can I afford it? But if I say do I need it, and the answer's "Well, no, not really." Then it is the end. I just saved myself from making a foolish purchase. These little tricks really, really help you do to do that. I also want to talk about widening the gap. At first, there's many of us who are making tremendous progress if we can end up on the next payday having not spent one dollar, a single dollar, from the previous paycheck. 10:43 That's a start. That's a tiny, tiny gap. There are so many ways to widen that gap. So I just want to go over a few of them and these are from my history folks. These are the things that really, really spoke to me. Helped me. I wrote them all down. The first one is borrow and share. Rather than feeling like I had to buy something new. Always have to own that movie. It's a change of mind for me and I have to tell you that, yes, my watch word was Blockbuster and I know probably don't remember that, but do you know there was a time…? Julie, she shaking her head. Do you remember Blockbuster? We would actually walking to the store look at all the movies. 11:22 Julie: I do remember it and actually that was… my husband was working there when I first met him. Mary: Really? Julie: Blockbuster is close to my heart. Mary: Yes, yes. For me, that started mind a mind-altering kind of thing because I realized I didn't have to own things in order to enjoy them. Something else, this is easy now because a lot of people don't like to go to the mall. But years ago when I was going through this the mall was my place that was my antidepressant. That was my happy place. That was where I could get away and take my kids. I'm sorry. I'm sorry boys. I took you to the mall way too often. 12:04 I had to stop that. I had to see that, that was like a slippery place for an alcoholic. It was, it was my bar! Gosh, that's so hard to say. But it was the absolute truth. Something else that I did was to limit my exposure to advertisements. I had to stop looking at women's magazines. Now, this was a time, yeah, Internet wasn't that big of a deal. But I could go through a woman's magazine… in a fact, there's something you maybe not know, Julie. Do you know that I was a contributing editor for Woman's Day magazine for 10 years? 10 years! (Julie: Wow) 10 years I wrote for them. 12:40 So I kind of know I would see all that. I would have to stop reading magazines. I couldn't trust myself. It was like I was a spoiled brat. Something else, and this is still true today, much harder than it used to be, I lived with cash. I'm talking about your day-to-day walking around money. What you have in your purse. I had to learn, I could not carry plastic with me. I could not. My drivers license I considered paper, but no, I'm talking about debit, credit, gift cards, all of that. I had to put them away because if I had them too handy, I was mindless with them. 13:19 In future episodes we're gonna talk about living with cash. There's some great great tips and tricks. I'm gonna teach you. But back to our list here. Spend free days. Oh my goodness! Do you want a wake up call? Do you wanna see into yourself? Do you want to clear your vision? Come out of the fog? Determine, and this is gonna be hard. I know you can do it! We can do it together. Let's all do it. OK. Commitment. All right. We are going to start by naming a get a spend free day. I don't I will let you know, but we'll think about it and let you know. Julie and I will try this out. 13:56 Here's how it works. You can plan ahead. That's fine. For one- 24 hour period you are not allowed to spend. And that's in any way! You can't pay the mortgage. You cannot pick up milk on the way home from work. Whatever. Can't go online. Can't go to Amazon. Spend-free day. (Julie: Nothing.) Nothing! Can't eat out. Nothing. You can't believe what'll happen. Another way to do this is to save the difference. This just goes in a lot of different ways. What I'm talking about is if, let's talk about the grocery store. You're shopping. It's not your spent free day. You have some coupons and you've got on that's for $1. $1 coupon! I love it when there are 3 digits in a coupon. 14:40 So you pick up whatever that item is. You take it to the check out. You get your dollar off. You save the difference. You get it. You just don't let that dollar you saved melt into the atmosphere. Just take it put that one dollar into a secret savings place. It's great great principle. 15:02 Here's something. Stay healthy. There's nothing like medical bills to obliterate any gap you might have in your life. How about this one? Cook in. Stop eating out so much. Julie, have you been to McDonald's lately? I went there recently. Julie: it's expensive for a family, for a person. Mary: I almost had a heart attack. I took my two grandsons. The three of us went for lunch. Two little boys, well sort of, and me. It was, it was like almost $30. I can't believe it. What? Of course, I let my kids pick what they like. I'm telling you I am about… I about… I couldn't even finish a sentence just like right now… so expensive. Cook in. Oh my goodness. You can't believe the money you'll save. 15:50 Pare down. You know we're ov…

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