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    History

    CONFLICTED

    An ex-Al Qaeda jihadi turned MI6 spy and a former monk turned filmmaker, have been embedded at the heart of conflicts in the Middle East. Together Aimen Dean and Thomas Small unpack the realities of war, fundamentalism and their global implications through first-hand experience.

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    Latest Episodes:
    Iran Will Never Give Up Hormuz Jul 21, 2026
    Show notes

    The MoU with Iran has broken down, war has returned to the Middle East, and so Aimen walks us through the events since the war re-ignited on 7th July.

    More than anything, the fighting now focuses on the Strait of Hormuz. In Iran’s eyes, it has won control of the Strait as a spoil of war. In the rest of the world’s eyes, freedom of navigation through the Strait remains a cast-iron principle of international law.

    Aimen and Thomas discuss:

    • Why the US–Iran MoU collapsed over control of the Strait of Hormuz
    • Iran’s attacks on Gulf shipping and the return of the US naval blockade
    • US strikes on Bandar Abbas and Iran’s coastal military infrastructure
    • GCC retaliation: Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE and Jordan confront Iran
    • Trump assassination threats and divisions inside the US administration
    • Saudi Arabia’s internal debate over Iran and renewed war with the Houthis
    • Houthi threats to close Bab al-Mandab and attack Saudi infrastructure
    • Oman, NATO and Israel’s roles in the widening Iran war

    Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

    Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

    Produced and edited by Thomas Small.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    How Netanyahu Failed to Prevent October 7 Jul 16, 2026
    Show notes

    In this latest Conflicted Conversation, Thomas talks with Yaakov Katz, the former editor-in-chief of The Jerusalem Post and co-author of ⁠While Israel Slept: How Hamas Surprised the Most Powerful Military in the Middle East⁠.

    Yaakov explains:

    • October 7 intelligence failure and Israel’s missed warnings
    • Hamas’s ‘Jericho Walls’ plan and ignored Unit 8200 alerts
    • The Israeli conceptzia: why leaders believed Hamas was deterred
    • Netanyahu’s Gaza containment strategy and Qatari money policy
    • Hamas as a political asset against Palestinian statehood
    • Israel’s overreliance on technology, SIGINT and border barriers
    • Unit 504, HUMINT failure and the absence of agents in Gaza
    • Gaza’s tunnel network and Hamas’s hidden underground military city
    • Operation Guardian of the Walls and Israel’s exaggerated ‘Metro’ success
    • Netanyahu’s responsibility, Israeli division and the post–October 7 media war

    **PLUS: Yaakov answers listener questions! FOR SUBSCRIBERS ONLY!**

    Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Find Yaakov on X: ⁠https://x.com/yaakovkatz⁠

    And on Facebook: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/yaakov.katz⁠

    And on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/yaakovkatz⁠

    Yaakov's website: ⁠www.yaakovkatz.com⁠


    Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

    Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

    Produced and edited by Thomas Small.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Ben Hodges: Russia Can Be Defeated Jul 14, 2026
    Show notes

    In this latest Conflicted Conversation, Thomas talks with retired US lieutenant general Ben Hodges, former commanding general of US Army Europe. Drawing on his experience at the heart of NATO’s military leadership, Hodges explains:

    • His proposed path to Ukrainian victory
    • Ukraine’s deep strikes on Russian oil and gas infrastructure
    • Ukraine’s campaign to isolate and recover Crimea
    • Why Hodges overestimated the speed of Ukraine’s victory
    • The risk of Russia using nuclear weapons in Ukraine
    • America’s failure to define clear political objectives in war
    • Ukraine’s emergence as a European defence-industrial centre
    • Why Western armies have been slow to learn from Ukraine
    • Pentagon procurement and the military-industrial complex
    • The NATO summit in Ankara and support for Ukraine
    • The damage Trump has done to trust between NATO allies
    • The geopolitical importance of Ukraine to Europe and the United States
    • Why the Kremlin fears a successful democratic Ukraine

    Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

    Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

    Produced and edited by Thomas Small.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Syria Turns Another Corner (Conflicted Revisited) Jul 10, 2026
    Show notes

    As Aimen works hard to uncover the truth of what's going on in the region now that the MoU has been torn to shreds — or so it seems — and in recognition of Syria being taken off the State Sponsor of Terrorism list, we are rerunning this episode from last year where Aimen tells the story of his nephew who joined the jihad against the Assad regime.

    Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

    Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

    Produced and edited by Thomas Small.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Guns, Greed and the Making of Modernity Jul 07, 2026
    Show notes

    In this Conflicted Conversation, Thomas discusses the true foundations of modernity with Clifton Crais, author of The Killing Age: How Violence Made the Modern World.

    Clifton explains:

    • The Mortecene as an alternative to the Anthropocene
    • Why global violence accelerated after 1750
    • How firearms destabilised traditional political orders
    • The role of credit and debt in expanding slavery
    • Global complicity beyond a simple West-versus-rest narrative
    • The industrial destruction of whales, elephants and bison
    • Vodun and other religious responses to predatory power
    • What muskets can teach us about drones and AI

    Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

    Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

    Produced and edited by Thomas Small.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Undiscovered: The Battle of Qala-i-Jangi Jul 03, 2026
    Show notes

    In this special episode, we bring you an exclusive audio episode of ‘Undiscovered’ the new YouTube-first documentary series from Conflicted’s executive producer and Message Heard founder, Jake Warren.

    Jake sits down with the legendary journalist Robert Young Pelton to discuss the infamous battle of Qala-i-Jangi, which he experienced first hand, and how it changed the war on terror forever.

    In this episode they discuss:

    • How Robert became a journalist and documentarian
    • Robert’s documentary ‘Heavy D and The Boys’
    • Meeting and spending time with General Dostum
    • The rumours and myths about General Dostum
    • Being an eyewitness to the battle of Qala-i-Jangi
    • Finding John Walker Lindh, the American Taliban
    • The death of CIA officer Johnny Micheal "Mike" Spann
    • Where the US went wrong in Afghanistan

    Find Robert on X: https://x.com/RYP__

    And on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/_robert_young_pelton_

    And on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmfzgtljwtgY1IgXt2YGiFg


    Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

    Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

    Produced and edited by Ross Field.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    The Bastard Children of Neoliberalism Jun 30, 2026
    Show notes

    In this Conflicted Conversation, Thomas sweats his way through a personally revealing exchange with Quinn Slobodian, Professor of International History at Boston University and the author of Hayek’s Bastards: The Neoliberal Roots of the Populist Right.

    Quinn explains:

    • Friedrich Hayek’s “knowledge problem” and his defence of markets over central planning.
    • Hayek’s later theory of cultural evolution, inherited institutions, and the limits of universal market society.
    • The split between “cultural Austrians” at George Mason University and “racial Austrians” around the Mises Institute.
    • Murray Rothbard’s move from courting anti-war hippies to building alliances with paleoconservatives and racial nationalists.
    • Hans-Hermann Hoppe, anarcho-capitalism, secession, and racially homogeneous private communities.
    • The Bell Curve, Charles Murray, IQ research, and the politics of scientific claims about race and inequality.
    • The difference between ideas that are empirically false and ideas rejected because they are morally disturbing.
    • The post-Cold War transformation of neoliberal enemies from communism to environmentalism, affirmative action, feminism, and welfare.
    • The divide between neoconservatives and paleoconservatives over US foreign policy, nationalism, and the Iraq War.
    • Whether Hayek’s Bastards reveals a major genealogy of the modern Far Right—or exaggerates the influence of a provocative fringe.

    Visit Quinn’s website: www.quinnslobodian.com

    Find Quinn on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/quinnslobodian.com

    And on Substack: https://zeithistoriker.substack.com


    Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

    Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

    Produced and edited by Thomas Small.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    The Middle East’s AI Arms Race Jun 25, 2026
    Show notes

    As the Middle East wakes up to an unnerving new normal following the signing of the M.O.U., Aimen and Thomas turn their attention to something truly cutting edge: the AI Arms Race that is rapidly transforming the Gulf into the front lines of a truly global U.S.-China confrontation.

    Aimen and Thomas discuss:

    • Iran’s drone attacks on Gulf data centres.
    • AI in missile defence and military targeting.
    • The physical infrastructure behind cloud computing.
    • Cheap Gulf energy and rapid data-centre construction.
    • The UAE–Saudi competition for AI leadership.
    • Sheikh Tahnoon, G42 and MGX.
    • Saudi Arabia’s HUMAIN strategy.
    • The US–China global AI rivalry.
    • Israel’s cybersecurity and military-AI role.
    • Whether AI-generated art can be genuinely creative.

    Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

    Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

    Produced and edited by Thomas Small.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    The Betrayal of the Iranian People Jun 23, 2026
    Show notes

    In this Conflicted Conversation, Yeganeh Torbati, the Iran correspondent for the New York Times, discusses her excellent new book Stolen Revolution: Betrayal and Hope in Modern Iran.

    Yeganeh explains how:

    • The 1979 revolution promised justice but created clerical authoritarianism.
    • Islamic law was subordinated to preservation of the supreme leader.
    • Institutions created to help the poor became engines of economic corruption.
    • The IRGC became a military-economic oligarchy.
    • Khatami-era reformism failed by refusing to challenge the constitutional source of authoritarian power.
    • Ahmadinejad promised to overthrow corrupt elites but merely installed new ones.
    • Rouhani promised economic normalization but enabled even greater corruption.
    • The destruction of all sources of organized opposition left protesters exposed to overwhelming violence.
    • Foreign powers encouraged expectations they did not possess the strategy or commitment to fulfil.
    • Iranian society continues to resist socially and culturally, making the future unstable rather than settled.

    Find Yeganeh on X: https://x.com/yjtorbati

    And on Instagram: ⁠www.instagram.com/yjtorbatireports


    Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

    Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

    Produced and edited by Thomas Small.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


    Video Games: The Global Battleground of Modern Politics Jun 18, 2026
    Show notes

    In this Conflicted Conversation, George Osborn draws on his excellent new book Power Play: Video Games, Politics and the Battle for Global Influence to reveal the hidden political power of video games.

    Once dismissed as a niche hobby, gaming has become one of the largest social environments ever created: a vast digital third space where billions of people form identities, build communities, and increasingly encounter politics — often aligned with authoritarian agendas.

    George explains:

    • The history of video games: from arcades to global digital networks
    • How gaming helped drive the modern technology revolution
    • Why video games became the ‘third spaces’ of the internet age
    • Steam, online gaming, and the rise of digital communities
    • How China controls and regulates gaming culture
    • Saudi Arabia's investment strategy in gaming and esports
    • Russia, information warfare, and influence operations in gaming
    • Gamergate and the politicisation of gaming communities
    • Steve Bannon, online culture, and the rise of populist politics

    Join the Conflicted Community here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://conflicted.supportingcast.fm/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Find George on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/georgeosborn.bsky.social

    And on Instagram: www.instagram.com/george_e_osborn

    And his Newsletter: www.videogamesindustrymemo.com


    Find us on X: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://x.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Facebook: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/MHconflicted⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    And Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/conflictedpod⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠megaphone.fm/adchoices⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


    Conflicted is a Message Heard production.

    Executive Producers: Jake Warren & Max Warren.

    Produced and edited by Thomas Small.

    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices


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