Cold War Conversations

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Transferring from the East German Army (NVA) to the unified German Army (Bundeswehr) (287) Apr 21, 2023

Show notes

We continue Steffen’s story where he tells of serving in three armies – firstly, the NVA, secondly the East German Army between the first free elections and unification, and finally the unified Bundeswehr.

We start the episode in the Autumn of 1989 where demonstrations are growing against the government in nearby Leipzig and Steffen’s unit is on high alert and confined to barracks. It is clear East Germany is on the cusp of change however, what will be the impact on Steffen and his comrades?

Steffen describes these tense days when rumours abounded of military action against the demonstrators, as well as how he heard about the fall of Honecker and the opening of the border. We also hear about his experiences as the NVA transitions after the first free elections in East Germany and momentum builds for reunification.

Steffen accepts a place in the new unified German army and we hear about the day command is handed over to the Bundeswehr and how he has to learn a different way of thinking, such as the new doctrine of personal responsibility.

0:00 Introduction and Steffen's account of tension in East Germany

2:26 Steffen's experiences during high alert and rumors of military action

9:41 Steffen's account of the news about Honecker's departure and post-fall experiences

13:29 Steffen's thoughts on a better GDR and first crossing into the West

18:32 Changes in public sentiment during weekly demonstrations and the decline of grassroots groups

24:15 Reunification possibilities and its effect on the NVA

29:11 Steffen's encounter with Bundeswehr troops and changes post-reunification

34:03 Steffen's transition from the East German uniform to the Bundeswehr uniform

43:57 Transformation in the relationship between soldiers and commanders post-reunification

46:51 Impact of reunification on Steffen's parents' jobs and his own career path

54:31 Steffen's comparison between NVA and Bunderswehr

55:46 Sponsor: Reminder about the Facebook discussion group

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The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to keep this podcast on the air. You’ll become part of our community and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

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Drafted into the East German Army (286) Apr 14, 2023

Show notes

Steffen was born in Karl Marx Stadt and was conscripted into the NVA (East German Army) in 1988.

When he left school he started an apprenticeship in electronics learning how to build radio receivers at REMA, a then-famous producer of HiFi equipment.

Steffen is called up at 18 for his 18 months of service and he talks of the conscription process and incentives offered to him to serve for a longer period.

Steffen is posted to a unit in Leipzig that was responsible for telephone lines from the NVA Headquarters for the area south of Berlin. He describes the training he took and the role he carried out including installing phones for NATO Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty inspectors.

In the summer of 1989 many citizens of East Germany flee the country via the now semi-open Hungarian border and Steffen describes heightened tension within the Army.

Don’t miss next week’s episode where Steffen describes his transfer into the Bundeswehr, the West German Army.

0:00 Introduction and guest presentation

2:36 Steffen's childhood and school life in East Germany

15:21 Steffen's conscription into the East German army and training experiences

25:37 Steffen's comrades and checks conducted on him before his role

29:38 Steffen's experience with possible Stasi checks

32:34 Steffen's daily duties in the East German army and infrastructure of the East German phone system

37:14 Steffen's mission involving a secret code word and awareness of the Allied military liaison missions

43:16 Access to Western media while in the East German army

47:49 Lead up to Steffen's job on October 7th, 1989 and preview of next week's episode

48:34 Sponsor: Encouragement for listeners to donate and join the Facebook discussion group

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The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to continue to preserve these first hand accounts. You’ll become part of our community and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

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If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, We also welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Episode extra inc videos here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode286/

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How Cold War Britain prepared for Nuclear War (285) Apr 07, 2023

Show notes

During the Cold War, the awesome power of nuclear weapons and its deadly fallout meant that every town, village and home in Britain fell under the nuclear shadow, and the threat of annihilation coloured every aspect of ordinary life.

I chat with author and fellow Cold War podcaster Julie McDowall about her new book Attack Warning Red!: How Britain Prepared for Nuclear War. We discuss how families were encouraged to construct makeshift shelters with cardboard, plastic sheets and sandbags, as well as how vicars and pub landlords learnt how to sound hand-wound sirens, offering four minutes to scramble to safety. and the thousands who volunteered to give nuclear first aid, often consisting of breakfast tea, herbal remedies, and advice on how to die without contaminating others.

It's a fascinating, haunting and darkly humorous look at the UK government’s attempts to prepare the UK population for nuclear war while bunkers were readied for the officials and experts who, in theory, would ensure life continued after Armageddon.

Buy the book & support CWC https://uk.bookshop.org/a/1549/9781847926210

0:00 Introduction and story of a village landlord's plan for nuclear warning

4:08 The 4-minute nuclear warning system in the UK

14:22 Role of the Women's Royal Volunteer Service in the Cold War

20:03 Rise of organizations like the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament

27:05 The Python plan for government survival in a nuclear attack

33:07 Visiting former Cold War government bunkers in the UK

37:04 The haunting TV version of Protect and Survive

51:15 The selection process for government bunker inhabitants

56:09 The importance of Threads in understanding nuclear war

1:10:54 Introduction to Julie McDowell's book 'Attack Warning Red'

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If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, We also welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Previous UK Civil Defence episodes

Cold War leaflets and documents https://coldwarconversations.com/episode112/

Assigned to a government bunker https://coldwarconversations.com/episode107/

Visit to a Royal Observer Corps monitoring post and interview with the Chief Observer who served in the post https://coldwarconversations.com/episode30/

Alistair McCann has preserved a Royal Observer Corps monitoring post as a museum in Northern Ireland. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode11/

Book giveaway info and extra videos https://coldwarconversations.com/episode285/

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Beyond the Wall: East Germany, 1949-1990 (284) Mar 31, 2023

Show notes

In 1990, a country disappeared. When the Iron Curtain fell, East Germany simply ceased to be. For over forty years, from the ruin of the Second World War to the cusp of a new millennium, the GDR presented a radically different German identity to anything that had come before, and anything that exists today. Socialist solidarity, secret police, central planning, barbed wire: this was a Germany forged on the fault lines of ideology and geopolitics.

I talk with acclaimed historian Katja Hoyer Whose new book Beyond the Wall: East Germany, 1949-1990 offers a kaleidoscopic new vision of this vanished country. Beginning with the bitter experience of German Marxists exiled by Hitler, to the creaking foundations of socialism in the mid-1980s, we discuss that amid oppression and frequent hardship, East Germany was yet home to a rich political, social, and cultural landscape, a place far more dynamic than the Cold War caricature often painted in the West.

Powerfully told, and drawing on a vast array of never-before-seen interviews, letters, and records, this is the definitive history of the other Germany, the one beyond the Wall.

0:00 Introduction to the episode and Katya Hoya

2:37 Katya Hoya's approach to researching and writing about East Germany

7:35 Arrival of Gruppe Ulbricht in Soviet occupied zone of Germany

15:19 Public sentiment towards the formation of East Germany

21:24 The 1953 uprising in East Germany

24:19 The economic disparity between East and West Germany

33:10 Evidence of Honecker's collaboration with Nazi authorities

45:17 Car ownership in East Germany: perceptions and realities

1:00:14 The unique relationship between Helmut Kohl and Honecker

1:10:16 The impact of reunification on East Germany's economy and workforce

1:21:43 Ending notes, book promotion, and thanks to supporters

UK listeners can support CWC by buying the book here https://uk.bookshop.org/a/1549/9780241553787

US listeners can support CWC by buying the book here https://bookshop.org/a/92195/9781541602571

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Details and extra video content on this link https://coldwarconversations.com/episode284/

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A British kid transferred to a Soviet school (283) Mar 25, 2023

Show notes

Richard was 6 years old when he was uprooted from a school in the United States to a Soviet school 700 miles East of Moscow.

In 1988 the Soviet Union was opening up following Michael Gorbachev’s policy of Perestroika and American firms began looking at the possibility of trading with the Soviet Union. It was politically and economically sensitive and his family was chosen to be sent to the USSR to open a factory in the industrial town of Nizhnekamsk in Tartarstan.

They lived in a special apartment building designated for foreigners and Richard attended the local school. Being thrown in the deep end of a Soviet school was a shock to him and he had to adapt fast, not least by learning Russian.

He describes his school experiences and the stark contrasts with his previous life. Despite the difference, he found being six years old in the Soviet Union in all, rather fun. There was a Lunar Park for us to go on rides, war-themed toys like tanks and soldiers even at school, and all sorts of mischief were had.

Life in Nizhnekamsk was hard on his mother who had to stay at home a lot and found the whole experience painfully boring.

0:00 Introduction and Richard's move to the Soviet Union

5:32 Life and impressions of Nizhnekamsk, the Soviet industrial city

11:57 Schooling and social experiences in the Soviet Union

24:22 Sponsor break

24:33 Dealing with school dynamics and ideological content in subjects

31:25 Restrictions and mischief in the Soviet Union

35:00 Family struggles and lifestyle in the Soviet Union

41:10 Fond memories and reasons for leaving the Soviet Union

44:41 Reconnecting with old schoolmates and appreciation of Soviet architecture

48:07 Acknowledgment of financial supporters and invitation to donate

49:03 Closing remarks and promotion of Cold War Conversations store

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The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation, you will give me the ammunition to keep this podcast on the air. You’ll become part of our community and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, We also welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Photos and extra content here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode283/

Support the project! https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

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Cold War US Army tank driver at the Iron Curtain (282) Mar 18, 2023

Show notes

Brian Regal entered the US Army in 1977 and served on the M60A1 tank initially as a driver. The M60A1 was America's primary main battle tank during the Cold War, with initial deployment in 1960 and combat service through to 1991.

After tank school, Brian was sent to West Germany where he was assigned to the 3/35 Armor in the Bamberg Garrison as part of the 1st Armored Division US Army, where the 3/35 was tasked to fight a Warsaw Pact attack across the Czechoslovak and East German borders. Brian was also his company’s nuclear, biological and chemical warfare specialist.

He describes in detail his training, how patrols were conducted along the borders, an incident with a Soviet Military Liaison mission car, the war games amongst the West German civilians, as well as practice alerts.

It’s a great chat and Brian is frank about his role and the scant expectations for survival if war did come.

He is now Dr. Brian Regal, Professor for the History of Science, Technology, and Medicine at Kean University, New Jersey

web page: https://sites.google.com/a/kean.edu/brian-regal-phd/

0:00 Introduction and Brian Regal's initial days in the US Army

1:53 Request for donations to support the podcast

7:00 Brian's decision to join the Army and training experiences

23:41 Arrival at the first duty station in Bamburg Garrison, Bavaria

28:57 Introduction to M60A1 tank and its features

37:56 NBC training and nuclear chemical defense

52:54 Practice alerts and close calls during the Cold War

1:01:05 Rules of engagement at the border and description of fortifications

1:07:58 Interaction with German civilians and Soviet military during service

1:31:08 Journey to becoming a tank commander

1:35:48 Episode extras and appreciation for financial supporters

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The fight to preserve Cold War history continues and via a simple monthly donation you will give me the ammunition to keep this podcast on the air. You’ll become part of our community and get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, We also welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Extra photos and videos here. https://coldwarconversations.com/episode282/

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Cold War Dutch conscientious objector (281) Mar 11, 2023

Show notes

In 1987 Martin received a letter informing him of his conscription into the Dutch Army. A number of European NATO countries had conscription during the Cold War. Holland’s applied to men over the age of 18 and included service for about a year, after which you were placed on the reserve.

Martin objected to military service as a conscientious objector on religious grounds. Conscientious objectors could perform alternative civilian service instead of military service. However to get to be an official “conscientious objector” you had to pass multiple military courts and military procedures which was especially challenging for someone aged 17 years old.

Martin is very honest about his beliefs and his experiences. During the Cold War he was seen by some as an enemy because he refused to bear arms to protect his country.

You may disagree with his views, but it’s a Cold War topic that is little covered elsewhere and I’m sure you will find my conversation with Martin as fascinating and powerful as I did.

0:00 Introduction to Cold War Conversations and Martin's military interaction

0:58 Conscription during the Cold War and Martin's conscientious objection

2:13 Sponsor message and user testimony

4:30 Martin's family's experiences and his draft notice

10:54 Process and challenges of becoming a conscientious objector

22:07 Martin's moral position and Ian's comments

24:10 Attempts to avoid conscription and Dutch law

29:37 Anti-nuclear movement in Holland and soldiers' participation

33:39 Martin's gratitude for the law and public reaction to his conscientious objection

41:19 Perception of conscientious objectors and Martin's replacement service

48:26 Current status of conscription in the Netherlands

53:05 Martin's perspective on defending his country and serving humanity

56:51 Podcast extras, call for support, and closing remarks

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.Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll become part of our community and get a sought-after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, We also welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/281

The foundation Martin works for as a volunteer is: https://www.emmy.foundation/

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Discovering your Cold War Czechoslovak Secret Police file (280) Mar 04, 2023

Show notes

Mark Baker was featured in episode 9 where he told us about working in Czechoslovakia in the 1980s as a journalist for a small publishing company called Business International (BI). He was the company’s Czechoslovakia expert and with his Czech minder Arnold he travelled to Prague and other cities to report on significant economic and political developments.

In 2021, he published “Čas Proměn” (“Time of Changes”), written in Czech, it is a collection of stories about Central and Eastern Europe in the 1980s and early ‘90s.

Over the Christmas 2021 holidays, as he was visiting family in Ohio, he received a surprise email from a Czech academic. He was writing to Mark that he had finished reading the book and that he liked it. But then he added, cryptically, that Mark might want to revise part of it for future editions as he had found Mark’s Czechoslovak secret police surveillance file…

We hear about the plans the Czechoslovak secret police had for Mark and the secret of Operation Oheň, aka Operation Fire.

0:00 Introduction to Mark Baker's story

2:40 Mark's journey as a journalist in Czechoslovakia

5:59 Discovering Arnold's collaboration with the secret police and Mark's own surveillance file

14:14 Reflection on the photographs from Mark's surveillance file

19:45 Decoding the secret language and understanding the code names in the file

24:01 Unveiling Mark's first appearance on the secret police radar

44:15 Mark Baker: Operation Ohen and the infiltration of US Embassies

45:00 Changes after the fall of the Berlin Wall and end of STB operations

48:59 Ian Sanders: Closing remarks, reminders and invitation to join the discussion group

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Now if you think there is a vast army of research assistants, audio engineers and producers putting together this podcast you’d be wrong. This podcast relies on your support to enable me to continue to capture these incredible stories and make them available to everyone for free.

If you’d like to help to preserve Cold War history and enable me to continue to produce this podcast you can via one off or monthly donations.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/for more details.

Listen to mark's previous episode here https://pod.fo/e/f83f

Mark's blog is available here. https://markbakerprague.com/part-1-introducing-our-man-inter

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A Cold War escape from Czechoslovakia (279) Feb 25, 2023

Show notes

We return to Dirk’s story from episode 278 with a move to East Berlin following his mother’s divorce from his father.

Dirk finds school life more relaxed where pupils are allowed to wear Western clothing and to speak more openly, even questioning their teachers about the existence of the Berlin Wall.

After leaving school, Dirk starts work in a factory from which he can see into West Berlin and he longs for a life away from the restrictions of East Germany.

His mother’s new partner is a conscripted border guard who advises him not to attempt an escape over the Wall.

However, as East Germany starts to implode in November 1989 Dirks sees a chance to escape…

We also hear of his and his family’s life in the new Germany where at school reunions the children of Stasi families reveal their secrets and his mother sees the contents of her Stasi file.

0:00 Introduction and Dirk's life in East Berlin

7:24 Dirk's career and encounters with international leaders

15:33 Dirk's changing perspectives on East Germany and life near the Berlin Wall

20:06 The risks of escaping East Germany and Dirk's involvement in 1989 demonstrations

24:18 Dirk's escape to West Germany

30:32 Arrival in West Germany and the reunion with his mother

36:43 The adjustment to the reunification of Germany

39:59 Post-reunification life and Dirk's connections with school friends

42:17 Discoveries from Stasi files and the impact on Dirk's family

44:53 Closing remarks and promotion of episode extras

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Dirk's previous episode https://coldwarconversations.com/episode278/

Cold War history is disappearing; however, a simple monthly donation will keep this podcast on the air. You’ll become part of our community and get a sought after CWC coaster as a thank you and you’ll bask in the warm glow of knowing you are helping to preserve Cold War history.

Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, We also welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Episode notes here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode279

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Growing up in the Stasi town (278) Feb 18, 2023

Show notes

Dirk lived in the town of Bernau about 15 miles from East Berlin. Just outside Bernau was Wandlitz the residential estate of the East German leadership. As a result, Bernau had one of the highest densities of Stasi facilities in East Germany.

Dirk shares details of his childhood growing up in a Plattenbau block of flats where his school friends were children of NVA officers, Stasi officers, and Soviet Army officers.

He shares some fascinating details of school life and visits the homes of his school friends in Bernau. However, his parents clashed with his school teachers as they bullied Dirk for wearing western clothing.

We also hear how his parent's anti-soviet view originated with his grandparents fleeing the World War 2 Soviet invasion of East Prussia and an Uncle who was arrested and disappeared in Berlin in 1945.

0:00 Introduction and Dirk's early life in East Germany

8:45 Impact of the Berlin Wall on Dirk's family and visits from West German relatives

16:22 Confrontations with teachers over Western influences and passive resistance to East German authorities

22:36 Discretion about Western influences and maintaining friendships with children of East German and Soviet army officers

27:38 Visiting the homes of Russian friends and experiences with Russian conscripts

35:21 Treatment of Soviet conscripts as observed by British troops and daily life amidst the Soviet and East German armies

41:09 Hidden bunkers, bases in East Germany, and Stasi surveillance of Dirk's family

45:01 Discussion about escaping East Germany and family visits to West Germany

47:06 Preview of Dirk's story in the next episode and acknowledgments

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Just go to https://coldwarconversations.com/donate/

If a monthly contribution is not your cup of tea, We also welcome one-off donations via the same link.

Videos and extra episode info here https://coldwarconversations.com/episode278

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