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This week on Breaking Battlegrounds, Sam and Chuck are joined by friend of the show and former Fox News executive Ken LaCorte. Ken is also the host of the Elephants in Rooms podcast. - Connect with us: www.breakingbattlegrounds.vote Twitter: www.twitter.com/Breaking_Battle Facebook: www.facebook.com/breakingbattlegrounds Instagram: www.instagram.com/breakingbattlegrounds LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/breakingbattlegrounds - Transcription Sam Stone: [00:00:11] Welcome to another episode of Breaking Battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone on the line with us today, returning guest and friend of the program, Ken Lacourt. Ken is the host of Elephant in the Room, a fantastic podcast. I highly encourage all of you to check it out. He writes about censorship, media malfeasance, which gives him lots of materials these days. Uncomfortable questions and honest insight for people curious how the world really works, which too often isn't the media these days, is it? Ken? And thank you for joining us. Welcome to the program. Ken LaCourt: [00:00:47] Oh, thanks for having me on again, guys. Chuck Warren: [00:00:48] So I want to talk about a poll that came out today by USA Today on the third party candidate. But the Republicans are elephants, Democrats are donkeys. What would be the animal ascribed to the third party movements? Anyone know you asking me that? Yeah. What should it be? What should it be? They need an animal. I mean, we've got elephants, Republicans, donkeys, Democrats. What? I don't. Sam Stone: [00:01:10] Know. Porcupine. Keep everyone the heck away. Ken LaCourt: [00:01:12] Yeah, and Porcupine used to be. Didn't that used to be a GOP thing from years and years back or. Sam Stone: [00:01:17] It was. Yeah. No. Yeah. Ken LaCourt: [00:01:19] A Whig thing. That wouldn't be too bad. You know, the problem is it'd have to be the disappearing cat. Because as much as we always see a poll out there like that and I mean, look, it's hard to, to bypass the fact that the top two nominees, the top two likely nominees right now, both have about a 33% approval rating in national national polls. Sam Stone: [00:01:41] I saw that in some polling yesterday, Chuck. And I was astounded at how much the country hates both Biden and Trump. Chuck Warren: [00:01:48] Yeah, they're done. So there's a poll that came out today by USA Today. It's done over the fifth and 9th of June and it shows 2024 national general election. Biden 34%, Trump 32, third party, 23. And then another one, Biden 33%. Desantis 26. Third party, 25. Desantis. Just people aren't familiar yet. I mean, I think his numbers are probably the same as Trump. I think he could do better. But so I looked it up and the same time in June in 1992, had Perot at 36%, George Herbert Walker Bush at 30%, and Bill Clinton at 26%. We just recycle. Well. Sam Stone: [00:02:26] Perot was, you know, as much as as much as the media glommed on. I remember that campaign pretty vividly. The media really glommed on Perot. He had a lot to say that was outside of the mainstream of both parties. I think you get a little of that with Vivek Ramaswami, but for the most part, you don't know. Chuck Warren: [00:02:44] So so, Ken, the question is, what do you think? What is the what is the ceiling for a third party candidate in the 2024 general election, do you think? Ken LaCourt: [00:02:53] I think that the the real ceiling is zero because the ceiling in running for president isn't isn't whether you can get 5 or 10% of the votes and and Perot probably got a little bit under he ran twice he probably got a little bit under 20% in 92. And neither time did he get one single vote in the Electoral College. Right. So it a third party is fun to talk about. The system is not designed for that or it's certainly not designed to have one when as we have it shaped right now. And look, the only thing Republicans and Democrats agree on is that either a Republican or a Democrat should be running the country. I mean, they have complete unanimity on that and they design all the rules to help bolster that. So I think any third party candidate, you'd have to look at who is he or she going to take votes away from as opposed to, oh, could this person get elected? It really just doesn't go beyond that. Chuck Warren: [00:03:49] Well, I see. I think Cornel West attempting to get the Green Party nomination could play some havoc in cities like Milwaukee, in Atlanta. Would you would you agree on that? Ken LaCourt: [00:04:01] Yeah. Look, if you can get I mean, look, the trick to putting a third party or having a third party person run where it helps you out is get somebody who you think would siphon votes from your opponent anywhere. So I've seen, for instance, in a in a statewide race in in Hawaii where a green candidate won, siphoned off a decent amount of votes from the Democrat, and it gave a Republican, you know, a chance to win a race in a very, very blue state. So, yeah, certainly I think in any close states, if you said, wow, here is a look, a popular libertarian will pull votes from the Republican. A popular green will pull votes from the Democrats. Chuck Warren: [00:04:43] Agree. All right. Let's talk about CNN. Cnn seems to be I know everybody likes to focus on Fox, but CNN has its own share of problems right now. Tell us a little about our audience, a little bit about that can and what's going on there and what do you foresee for CNN's future? Ken LaCourt: [00:04:59] Well, you know, CNN started this whole game. I mean, right. I mean, I worked at Fox for 20 years. I might not have had that job if it wasn't for Ted Turner and him saying, hey, I got a crazy idea. Let's go. 24 seven with news and they had a monopoly for a very long time. And of course you do well when you have a monopoly, right? We came in, MSNBC came in, and CNN kind of tried to you know, they were always leaning left, but they weren't like hard core left like they've become in the last five, five, seven, ten years, really, five, seven years. So as that as kind of Americans got a little bit more polarized as the media started getting more polarized, they found themselves in a bad position. Msnbc was was pulling in the hard core Dems, Fox News was pulling in conservatives, and they kept diminishing in the Trump years. Cnn did great. I mean, it's like, you know, people rage. Watch Donald Trump and that helps ratings. It helps money. It helps all sorts of things. I mean, you know, the Never Trumpers, you know, the professional never Trumpers out there. Ken LaCourt: [00:06:02] They're praying that he runs again. So they did okay during that. But then when he you know, then when he was off the stage, their numbers just went in the toilet. And I mean, you know, people are saying, my gosh, Fox News numbers are down after the whole Tucker thing. And they're right. But I looked at the numbers yesterday, the lowest rated original show, not repeat, but the lowest rated show on Fox News is Trace Gallagher Show because it's on at midnight, midnight Eastern, Trace Gallagher's lowest rated show beat every single hour of CNN during the day, every one of their prime time shows just, you know, it towered over all of those. So CNN has a ratings problem, but they're still making money. I mean, that's another dirty secret is is they're probably they're probably profiting a billion bucks a year even with those crappy ratings. So, you know, but look, they've become they've become like what people always accused Fox of. They've become you know, they're not fair and balanced journalists. They are hard. Sam Stone: [00:07:01] It's an ideological echo. Ken LaCourt: [00:07:02] Chamber, ideological driven thing. So the new the new guy went in and said that he had the support of David Zaslav, who is the is the chairman or CEO of Discovery, which owns that, but he's also a corporate guy who's not going to you know, these guys look out for themselves before they look out for anything else. So Chris Licht went and was told to, you know, make it more moderate. Let's go back to getting kind of both sides in. Let's not be a hard core. Let's even if it costs us a little bit of ratings and money in the meantime, let's do this. Well, he did that and tried that. Really, he did more talking about it than actually accomplishing something. And all the lefties and all the lefties at CNN, which is 90% of the staff, freaked the hell out. And how could he do this and how could he do that? And it was a drama, you know, And then he stupidly lets a, you know, a mainstream reporter walk around and follow him for two weeks with a tape recorder recording every single stupid thing he says. And that was kind of the final, don't you? Chuck Warren: [00:08:00] Don't you find don't you find that I find that interesting. He did that. And you find this with candidates a lot. They always just think they're smarter than the person following them with a tape recorder. Ken LaCourt: [00:08:09] You know, it never works. Never, never. And, you know, part of it is these people are because I just did a longer one on that. It wasn't about me, although then it turned out to be me by some scumbag reporter. And they're they're nice people. They're engaging, they're smart. You have like, good intellectual conversations with them and you think that it's going along okay, and then they get their, you know, their 50 hours of tape and say, okay, where did this guy say something that I can twist into making it look like he's a whatever ist? Or if there is these days he's a racist, he's a homophobic, he's a this, he's a that. Sam Stone: [00:08:45] Looking at it. Ken LaCourt: [00:08:46] That's what their game. Sam Stone: [00:08:47] Looking at it from the outside. I really felt like Licht and Donald Trump essentially made the same mistake, which is they didn't realize how deeply they had to clean house on day one to have any chance at all. I think he had a lot of arrogant mistakes. He clearly overestimated himself. But start right there. Well, look, it's. Chuck Warren: [00:09:05] The same problem. You know, Republicans now, their big thing is we're going to move FBI out of DC. We're going to clean up the Department of Justice. The problem is you can't clean up any of these unless you have a wholesale cleaning out of the house, because when you still leave people behind, they have their loyalties. Am I wrong on that, Ken? Ken LaCourt: [00:09:21] No, you're absolutely right. And what you it's more difficult to do in the federal government because you can't just fire everybody at the Doe. You you can only you can only affect the handful of top politically appointed jobs and everybody else is protected. Look, when the when the Murdochs took over Fox and they did this to the Wall Street Journal and they've done this, they went about very quickly in changing the corporate culture. And that's why Fox is kind of wussy these days. So what does that mean? Well, part of it is they with The Wall Street Journal, they physically moved the company. You used to have offices here. Now you have offices down the street. And that just it signals to everybody this is a different place. This is a different you know, it's all different. Well, at Fox, they did the same thing. They didn't move them physically. But like Roger Ailes office doesn't exist anymore. The entire second floor where all the executive. Fox is now a newsroom. So they just gutted it, made all of the trappings of the past gone and they and they redid it. Second thing is, is you go in and you take over. And this is why so many companies are are so woke around the world or the country at least is you take over the HR department and you get them doing different things and you get them treating treating people differently and instilling whatever values you try to bring in there. So Fox News now and this just came out is you know they've got they get pride month and and you know trans trans crossword puzzles for the employees I mean there's all sorts of just kind of like you're really going on at Fox. So they needed to change that corporate culture and said he went out and talked about doing it and then just it just it just bounced off. But look, this is a this is a guy who'd never really run anything larger than a show. So even if he kind of had good editorial chops, he probably didn't have deep management chops. Chuck Warren: [00:11:11] Well, and and again, it's one of these things and this this story as old as time. You know, he comes in, you have the owner of it, Time Warner, say, you have our support. You do what you need to do. You have our support. So he goes in, like you said, he doesn't have experience. He's fumbling through it, but he's making changes. The powers that be that stayed are hairs up on the back of their neck. And guess what? Time Warner said, Oh, no, it's just too much disruption. We can't do it. And that's why things don't change. Sam Stone: [00:11:39] He also had, to me, a fatal flaw in that he wanted, as most people do, he wanted to be liked. Yeah. And coming into that job, you can't consider that. Chuck Warren: [00:11:49] No, no. The Roger. The Roger Ailes cared if he was liked or not. Ken LaCourt: [00:11:53] They used to joke that that, you know, Republicans never get invited to parties in New York City and he just didn't care. But that's but that's really that's really important to be liked by. He wanted to be liked by Rupert Murdoch. And he was always very clear. He's like, Rupert doesn't keep me around because he really likes me. He likes me because I hit my numbers every quarter. Chuck Warren: [00:12:14] And which is which is business. Which is business, right? Ken LaCourt: [00:12:18] They look, if they really wanted to make those changes, they should have told Chris to go in, do some wholesale firings. You know, he did a couple of little shiftings. It's like we take Don Lemon and we put him in the morning show and it's like, well, you got rid of the fat kid, Brian Stelter. Chuck Warren: [00:12:32] It's like it's like the guy in the subway, red cups. I mean, he. Sam Stone: [00:12:34] Was like the easiest. Stelter was like the easiest guy in the world to fire. Folks. We're going to be coming back with more in just a moment. Breaking battlegrounds. Be sure to go to breaking battlegrounds, vote. Download all of our past episodes. You can check those out there. We're on Substack, Spotify, all the various places, Apple Podcasts, everywhere you get your podcasts, breaking battlegrounds is there. And we're back in a moment. Welcome back to Breaking battlegrounds with your host, Chuck Warren. I'm Sam Stone. Hey, folks, are you looking for a great way to earn a fantastic return on your money and actually do good by doing well for yourself? You need to check out investyrefycom that's invest the letter y then refy.com? They are taking distressed student loans. They're refinancing them. You can actually invest in what they're doing. 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