Breakdown

Latest Episodes:

S9 Ep 9: The Pinball Machine Jul 14, 2025

Show notes

AJC journalists Bill Rankin and Tamar Hallerman focus on former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani's grand jury appearance and U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham's attempts to avoid his testimony by the Fulton County special purpose grand jury of former President Donald Trump and his allies for what happened in Georgia after the 2020 presidential election.

Giuliani, who has been Trump's personal lawyer, showed up at the Fulton courthouse to testify before the grand jury after his lawyers had tried unsuccessfully to postpone it.

Graham, who placed two phone calls to the Secretary of State's office in the weeks after the election, was scheduled to testify before the special grand jury on Tuesday. But the federal appeals court in Atlanta - the fifth court so far to be involved in Graham's case - stepped in two days before the South Carolina senator was to appear and delayed his appearance.

Rankin and Hallerman also cover the dustup between Gov. Brian Kemp and the Fulton District Attorney's Office and decisions by judges in Colorado and New Mexico ordering two other lawyers who represented the Trump campaign to come to Atlanta and testify before the grand jury.

You can download the Breakdown podcast from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite podcasting platform. You can also stream it on your computer from ajc.com.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

S9 Ep. 11: Will Trump be invited? Jul 14, 2025

Show notes

Will Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis subpoena former President Donald Trump before the special purpose grand jury?

So far, Willis has sent out-of-state witness subpoenas to Trump’s former chief of staff, Mark Meadows; close ally Lindsey Graham, the U.S. senator from South Carolina; and his inner circle of lawyers who tried to overturn the outcome of the 2020 presidential election.

Episode 11 of “The Trump Grand Jury” includes interviews of criminal defense lawyers, law professors and former prosecutors who weigh the pros and cons of trying to compel the former president to come to Atlanta and testify.

Since convening in May, the special purpose grand jury has heard testimony from more than 30 witnesses in its investigation of what happened in Georgia in the weeks and months after the 2020 presidential election.

In light of recent public comments made by Trump, Episode 11 also revisits another hotly disputed presidential election: the 2000 contest between George W. Bush and Al Gore. This race, like the 2020 election, was decided long after election night and only after the U.S. Supreme Court issued its ruling in Bush v. Gore.

You can download the Breakdown podcast from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite podcasting platform. You can also stream it on your computer above.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

S9 Ep 10: Closing In Jul 14, 2025

Show notes

The Fulton County special purpose grand jury investigation is closing in on former President Donald Trump.

Mark Meadows, Trump’s former chief of staff and close advisor, has been served an out-of-state witness subpoena to appear before the grand jury. The 10th episode of “The Trump Grand Jury,” the ninth season of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Breakdown podcast, explores the ramifications of Meadows’ subpoena.

The special purpose grand jury has been meeting since May to investigate Trump and his allies over what happened in Georgia in the months following the 2020 presidential election.

Others, including lawyer Sidney Powell, who briefly represented the Trump campaign, have also been served out-of-state subpoenas.

All the while, District Attorney Fani Willis continues her string of courtroom victories against witnesses who have tried to assert privileges and immunities as a way of not appearing before the 23-person special purpose grand jury.

Episode 10 covers a court hearing pitting lawyers for Gov. Brian Kemp against Fulton prosecutors as well as Superior Court Judge Robert McBurney’s cleverly written ruling that is issued just a few days later. The episode also covers developments in the subpoenas issued to Trump’s inner circle of attorneys and U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.

You can download the Breakdown podcast from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite podcasting platform. You can also stream it on your computer from ajc.com.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

S9 Ep 8: Trump’s new legal team Jul 14, 2025

Show notes

Former President Donald Trump has assembled a legal team to defend him before the Fulton County special purpose grand jury that is investigating possible meddling that occurred in Georgia after the 2020 presidential election.

The eighth episode of “The Trump Grand Jury,” the ninth season of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s “Breakdown” podcast, introduces listeners to Trump’s new attorneys.

Atlanta lawyer Drew Findling is nationally known for representing hip-hop superstars and, in the past, has been a strong critic of the former president. Jennifer Little is a former prosecutor who has helped targets of criminal probes get out of jams. And Decatur lawyer Dwight Thomas is considered to be an expert on special purpose grand juries, having represented clients before three of them.

The episode also covers former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani’s attempt to delay his testimony before the Fulton grand jury. And it notes that Giuliani, Trump’s personal attorney, learns he is a target of the investigation.

There is also a court battle waged by U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina to quash his material witness subpoena. His lawyers, including former Trump White House counsel Don McGahn, appeared in Atlanta before U.S. District Judge Leigh Martin May to argue the senator’s case.

You can download the Breakdown podcast from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite podcasting platform. You can also stream it on your computer from ajc.com.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

S9 Ep 7: Planting the seeds of truth Jul 14, 2025

Show notes

The public release of the recording of the Jan. 2, 2021, phone call from then-President Donald Trump to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger was the impetus for what is now an ongoing special purpose grand jury investigation.

Raffensperger and a top aide, Gabe Sterling, sit for an interview and talk about the 2020 presidential election and its aftermath.

During the phone call, Raffensperger disagreed with Trump’s assertions that he had won Georgia by hundreds of thousands of votes, not lost the election by 11,779 votes. And even though Trump alternately pleaded, insulted and threatened Raffensperger, the secretary held firm.

The episode also examines a surprise ruling by Fulton County Superior Court Judge Robert McBurney that bars District Attorney Fani Willis and her office from calling lieutenant gubernatorial candidate Burt Jones before the grand jury or considering him to be a target of the investigation. Jones was one of 16 alternative electors who cast votes for Trump during a meeting in the state Capitol.

You can download the Breakdown podcast from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite podcasting platform. You can also stream it on your computer from ajc.com.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

S9 Ep 6: One for the history books Jul 14, 2025

Show notes

One sitting president was placed under arrest for speeding. Two former presidents came extremely close to being indicted, one from an investigation arising from the Watergate scandal, the other from the Whitewater controversy.

Atlanta Journal-Constitution reporters Bill Rankin and Tamar Hallerman examine past criminal cases involving presidents and vice presidents.

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is overseeing the special purpose grand jury investigation of former President Donald Trump and his allies for what happened here following the 2020 presidential election. But she does not have much of a playbook to follow because no president or former president has ever been indicted.

The episode also recaps a busy week of developments in the grand jury investigation. This includes the outcomes of subpoenas being issued to Trump’s former personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and to U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.

You can download the Breakdown podcast from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite podcasting platform. You can also stream it on your computer from ajc.com.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

S9, Ep. 4: A Guilty Mind? Jul 14, 2025

Show notes

The fourth episode of “The Trump Grand Jury,” the ninth season of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Breakdown podcast, focuses on criminal intent as part of the podcast’s continuing coverage of the Fulton County special purpose grand jury that is investigating what Donald Trump and his allies did in Georgia following the 2020 president election.

If a criminal indictment is ultimately brought, prosecutors must show criminal intent – that Trump and others knew what they were doing was illegal and that they meant to break Georgia law.

During a phone call with Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger on Jan. 2, 2021, Trump said he needed to “find 11,780 votes.” That was exactly how many he needed to overturn the presidential election results in Georgia.

Trump also told Raffensperger “there’s nothing wrong with saying that, you know, that you’ve recalculated” the vote totals.

But Raffensperger held firm, saying he believed in the official vote count, which showed Trump had lost in Georgia.

This phone call is at the heart of the special purpose grand jury’s investigation and legal experts are divided on whether it shows Trump had criminal intent. And, somewhat surprisingly, it is not a matter that falls neatly along party lines – even some of Trump’s harshest critics say they don’t see a crime.

Breakdown’s fourth episode also looks at the possible defenses the president could raise if an indictment is returned. No president or former president has ever been indicted. So if this happens the prosecution, the defense and the courts will be breaking new ground.

“There are all kinds of hurdles the prosecution would have to overcome with prosecuting an ex-president,” Atlanta criminal defense attorney Don Samuel says on the podcast. “It wouldn’t surprise me if that ends up in the U.S. Supreme Court before it ever ends up in a courtroom.”

You can download the Breakdown podcast from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite podcasting platform. You can also stream it on your computer from ajc.com.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

S9, Ep. 3: Is there a criminal case? Jul 14, 2025

Show notes

Is there a criminal case to be brought against former President Donald Trump and his allies for what happened in Georgia following the 2020 presidential election?

The third episode of “The Trump Grand Jury,” the ninth season of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Breakdown podcast, explores that possibility. A Fulton County special purpose grand jury that is investigating the issue will ultimately recommend whether criminal charges should be brought.

In a letter to top state officials, District Attorney Fani Willis listed a half dozen laws the former president and others may have broken. They are: solicitation of election fraud, giving false statements, conspiracy, racketeering, violation of oath of office and making threats related to the administration of the state’s elections.

In Breakdown’s third episode – “Is There A Criminal Case?” – legal experts discuss a number of incidents, including Trump’s Jan. 2, 2020, call to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger; his lawyer Rudy Giuliani’s testimony before state legislative committees; and the slate of fake electors who met in secret at the state Capitol the same day Democrats cast Georgia’s 16 Electoral College votes for Biden.

As to whether Trump broke the law, it depends on who you ask.

John Banzhaf, a professor of public interest law at George Washington University, doesn’t think it’s a close call.

“Looking specifically at the Trump situation, when I read and then heard the actual tape recording of the conversation, it jumped out at me as being about as clear and specific and unambiguous evidence of a crime,” he said.

But Atlanta lawyer Randy Evans, who served as Trump’s ambassador to Luxembourg, doesn’t see it that way.

“If we narrow down to the particulars of what I understand the DA to be looking into, which is whether there’s any criminal or illegal conduct, I don’t even think it’s really close, to be fair,” he said.

You can download the Breakdown podcast from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite podcasting platform. You can also stream it on your computer from ajc.com.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

S9, Ep 5: The out-of-state witness subpoenas Jul 14, 2025

Show notes

The fifth episode of “The Trump Grand Jury,” the ninth season of The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s Breakdown podcast, recaps a busy period for the special purpose grand jury investigating former President Donald Trump and his allies.

There are a flurry of witnesses coming in to testify about what happened at the state Capitol in the weeks after the November 2020 presidential election. There is a courtroom scuffle over legislative immunity. And there is the issuance of seven out-of-state material witness subpoenas that penetrate former president Trump’s inner circle.

Recipients of the subpoenas include attorneys Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman and Cleta Mitchell. Also on the receiving end was U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.

In an interview with Breakdown, District Attorney Fani Willis said the pushback was expected.

You can download the Breakdown podcast from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite podcasting platform. You can also stream it on your computer from ajc.com.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

S9, Ep. 1: The January 2nd phone call Jul 14, 2025

Show notes

Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger was sitting in his kitchen on the afternoon of Jan. 2, 2021, when he received a phone call from the White House.

President Donald Trump, his chief of staff and some of his lawyers were on the line. During the conversation, Trump told Raffensperger to “find” him 11,780 votes to overturn the election results. That was one more than the 11,779-vote margin that gave Georgia’s 16 electoral college votes to President Joe Biden and turned Georgia Democratic for the first time since 1992.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution’s award-winning Breakdown podcast returns for its ninth season — The Trump Grand Jury — to cover an investigation into that hourlong phone call as well as other events in Georgia that happened in the weeks following Election Day.

Episode One explores what happened during the phone call between Trump and Raffensperger as well as another call made to Frances Watson, the Secretary of State’s lead elections investigator. Both conversations were recorded.

The AJC’s legal affairs reporter, Bill Rankin, returns as the host of Season 9 of the Breakdown podcast. He is joined by senior reporter Tamar Hallerman, who covered the Trump White House when she was the newspaper’s Washington correspondent.

You can download the Breakdown podcast from Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Stitcher or your favorite podcasting platform. You can also stream it on your computer in the player above.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Our TOPPODCAST Picks

Follow Us

Stay Connected

Related Podcasts

Links

Stay Connected