Is Forgiveness Helpful for Victims of Betrayal?
May 07, 2024
Dr. Debi Silber and Anne discuss the concept of forgiveness in relation to emotional abuse and intimate betrayal. Forgiveness is a word we try to avoid at BTR because it’s so often weaponized against victims, but can it help victims of intimate betrayal on their journey to healing?
This episode is Part Two of Anne’s interview with Dr. Debi Silber. Part One: Healing From Betrayal Trauma With Dr. Debi Silber Part Two: Is Forgiveness Helpful For Victims of Betrayal? (this episode)
Forgiveness Is, Forgiveness Is Not
Forgiveness is an oft-weaponized concept, used to silence and blame victims. Here at BTR, we choose to see forgiveness as another tool that victims can use to establish emotional safety. As you work toward healing and peace, remember that you’re not alone.
The Power of Forgiveness
I study the Bible, I’m Christian, and if you don’t or you’re agnostic, all the listeners out there just keep listening.
I’m not going to give a religious lecture or anything, but just for my own personal experience, it really struck me that in so many scriptures about forgiveness, it’s actually about debt. Talking about you’re forgiving someone of their debt, and it’s really true of abusers.
They really do owe you a lot, right? They owe you justice. And they owe you not just an apology, but a living amends because of the damage that they’ve done for years and years.
They could owe you financially, they could owe you in relation to other relationships with family members or children, and that’s part of what hurts is that they owe you this great debt and they are not paying it back.
The More You Try to Get Them to Pay it Back, the More Control They Have Over You
(03:44): And the more you try to get them to pay it back, the more control they have over you. They actually love that, right? Because they’re like, cool. She is still attached to me. She still wants something from me, and so they can hold it over your head.
And I find it interesting that clergy generally sees forgiveness as a way to reconcile. Forgive, and then you can talk and you can have peace. And I’ve started seeing forgiveness as a way to actually move farther away from the person.
Because once you forgive them of that debt and say, okay, I know you do owe me all this. As a woman of faith just for myself, I think, well, I could try to get it from you and you are not healthy and not safe.
Or I can turn to God who will give me what I need and he loves me and he wants to give it to me, and he’s not going to hold anything over my head. Turning away from the person who is literally indebted to me and releasing that debt and saying, okay, you might not pay it.
Anne’s Understanding of Forgiveness
(04:50): I’m going to turn to God and hope that he pays it. And from my Christian perspective, from my savior. Now, other people can think of it in different ways, but I just thought that was a really interesting idea that forgiveness can actually move you farther away from abuse and farther away because you’re not expecting anything from them anymore.
You can consider what they owe you. If it’s money, if it’s a relationship, whatever it is, you can consider it to be cursed, right? Even if they gave you that thing that they owe you alimony, I don’t know what it would be, right? A car payment.
If you consider that to be cursed as a way that they can use to get their hooks in you, then it’s a little bit easier to say, you know what? You don’t owe me anything. I am going to turn to healthy people myself, my faith, something else not for justice, but I’m going to forgive that debt and I’m going to look elsewhere for that thing that I need.
Is this Worth My Health? My Sanity?
Dr. Debi Silber (05:49): And I look at this really from a, I’m in health for 30 plus years, and when you are banging your head against the wall trying to get someone to understand and to see. You’re proving and you’re explaining and you’re not getting anywhere.
This person at this point in their life and their current level of consciousness, they’re either incapable or unwilling to do anything different. Then you want to take a look and say, is this worth my health? Is this worth my sanity?
Is this worth me really compromising every other aspect of life because it’s tainting everything? When you look at the widespread effect of really how it’s affecting you physically, mentally, emotionally. How it’s affecting how you show up at work and at home and with your family in all these places, here’s where I really look at the motivation to forgive.
Again, having nothing to do with the other person, but we’re giving them so much power and if we’re giving them so much power, well what’s left for ourselves and our own growth. Looking at it like that and knowing what the body is physically doing when we’re expecting and hoping and waiting on anything external, that’s always a recipe for disaster.
Instead of knowing I can only control myself, any attachment I have is, and any expectation is potential for me being really let down, really disappointed and really sick, and that’s just not worth it.
https://youtu.be/3u9c-O20Ju4
National Forgiveness Day
Anne (07:38): We have strategies to do this in The BTR.ORG Living Free Workshop, and Dr. Silber has strategies that help with reframing things like this in your mind so that you can feel peace regardless of where he is, which is the point.
For us, it’s specifically in the relationship usually while you’re still trying to make your way to safety. So you founded National Forgiveness Day. Can you talk about how that happened?
Dr. Debi Silber (08:13): There were so many people that were struggling in so many ways from things that happened throughout their lives, and it was actually a social experiment. I wanted to see is it possible to move to more forgiving and free with intention? That was the intention.
Then when we were kicking off this 21 day forgiveness journey, I thought what would really amp this up? I thought of the idea of this National Forgiveness day a day to really do this.
Just today I got an email from somebody, she’s in her late eighties, and for 70 plus years, she’s had digestive issues because of a family betrayal. And through forgiveness, through this 21 day experience, the gut issues are gone.
You don’t want to think you have to be in your late eighties to do this work. I mean, I’m so impressed with her that she did, but that’s what can happen.
Intentional & Deliberate Forgiveness
(09:17): So we had example after example of people who forgave themselves for being too hard on themselves. Or always making choices that weren’t in their best interest or choosing that person or sticking around too long or forgiving the hurt that they caused someone else.
Everybody has their own thing and it didn’t have to be the most triggering of their experiences. I actually encouraged them to start with something a little smaller like the coworker who snubbed you, something like that.
The idea of intentionally and deliberately working on this for our sake, it made such a difference and it was just so great to see.
The Treatment Really is Safety
Anne (10:02): That’s awesome. I have such a hard time sometimes I don’t even want to say the word forgiveness on the podcast because there was so long where even if someone mentioned it, it was just like a knife to my heart. And so if that is where you are at, it’s okay.
It’s okay. And there will never be a time, at least at BTR where we say you have to forgive because the treatment really is safety. We talk about this a lot in BTR.ORG Group Sessions.
I have found so many times that part of the reason why women are having a hard time with forgiveness is because they are not yet safe. They’re still currently incurring an injury. If somebody is hitting you on the head, that’s not really the time to even think about forgiveness, right?
You need to make sure that you’re not getting hit on the head first, at least listeners here to BTR. If that is hard to hear and difficult, it’s probably because you’re still being actively injured and you need to make your way to safety. That’s a really good indicator that safety has not been established in so many cases.
Safe & Valued
Dr. Debi Silber (11:14): We are totally on the same page with that. I remember when I was doing my research. There was a study I read, and it’s said, if you feel safe and valued and you forgive, you feel better. If you do not feel safe and valued and you forgive, you feel worse.
Then in my research, I kicked it up a notch and I said, well, what would happen if we changed the word forgive to rebuild or reconcile? And it would sound like this, if you feel safe and valued and you reconcile, you feel better.
If you do not feel safe and valued and you reconcile, you feel worse. I think that’s really what we’re both speaking about. This has everything to do with our sense of safety and security and forgiveness. The way I’m suggesting it is having zero to do with that other person. That doesn’t mean you’re rebuilding, you’re reconciling.
No, it is only for your own freedom. Rebuilding though, however, has everything to do so much to do with that other person. If that person is unwilling and capable of doing anything different and you are just rebuilding or reconciling just to make things easier.
Even forgiving to make things easier, I would say check the reasons why you’re doing that. If you do feel safe and valued, that’s a whole different thing.
Dealing with False Narratives and Seeking Peace
Anne (12:44): For women who are dealing with post-divorce abuse from not just the abuser, but also other people who believe his story. They are struggling because when he’s telling this false narrative, the people listening to him and believing him, they don’t realize that she’s currently being abused.
This act of lying about her, false witness, basically is an act of abuse, and they just think he’s telling his side of the story.
(13:51): They don’t see that as an act of abuse. Maybe if it just was from him, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. I mean, it’s always going to be a big deal, but you can see the abuse coming from him, but then it’s coming from other people.
Family members or neighbors or other acquaintances. And I think this kind of goes back to that debt I was talking about.
You would think that he owes you a debt of telling people the truth about what happened, and he’s not repaying that debt. He’s actually incurring more debt in lying continually.
For women who are experiencing that now, do you have any thoughts for them about how to maybe reframe that so they can have a feeling of peace if that’s occurring in their lives?
Navigating Through Misinformation
Dr. Debi Silber (14:30): Yeah, I totally do because this is an experience that I experienced myself. So recently I just did on a podcast episode, and it was with one of our members who moved through all five stages from betrayal to breakthrough.
When she first came in, she could barely function. She tells the story I brought her on because of her transformation. She was with such an abuser.
That was exactly the scenario. So much so that all these women, he was telling all these women about her in the most negative way, and none of it was true. When I posted her podcast episode to share it, because I was so proud of the changes she made and everything, people were responding a few people from the community.
They said what a liar she is, and I can’t believe it, the hatred. It was purely because exactly what you said, they all believed him.
The Power of Resilience Amid Adversity
(15:35): I was deleting comments, and then they were even coming after me. Why do you believe her? All this stuff. And I had a conversation with her. I said, wow, this must be so hard for you. You’ve done such tremendous work to heal from such craziness just with him, and now you have to deal with it from all of these other people.
But the healing she did was so, it really was so tremendous that she saw them differently. It’s not that it didn’t hurt, but it didn’t take her down the same way it did earlier. And that was a testament to all of her healing. But they were coming after me. They were coming after her. I mean, it was exactly what you’re talking about. I had never experienced that.
The Abuser’s Contradiction
Anne (16:22): We actually experienced that all the time. Here at BTR, it’s a very familiar thing. I get so many messages from angry husbands who think that it’s BTR’s fault that their wife has finally set boundaries and started making their way to safety. I think it’s really interesting because they always say two simultaneous opposite things at the same time.
When they write, they say, number one, that it’s my fault that I have caused this and that I’m such a bad person. And number two, they want to convince me that she is the bad one, right? So she’s a liar, she’s abusive, she’s terrible. You don’t know that kind of stuff.
I think, wait a minute, abuser, if she really is like this, if she really is abusive and terrible and hurtful, and all the things that you’re claiming, you should be thanking me. Your letter should be thanks to BTR, this awful, terrible, lying, crazy woman, she finally stepped away.
Dynamics of Emotional Abuse
(17:28): I’m so grateful. Thank you. They don’t say that it’s my fault that the marriage fell apart and all this stuff, and that she’s terrible, and I’m thinking, you are not making sense. You should be thanking me. And that’s part of the clue that it wasn’t her. And also that it’s not BTR, that it’s your abuse that caused this problem.
It’s your abuse that made her want to get to safety because she felt terrible due to your behavior and due to your character. Any woman who’s been through it has felt that where this person wants to control you with coercion, control, emotional and psychological abuse. So they act like they hate you, but they also don’t want you to leave. It’s very confusing.
If They’re Blaming, They’re not Taking any Responsibility for Their Behavior
Dr. Debi Silber (18:18): That’s the type of betrayer, by the way, and who has zero intention of doing anything differently. You can tell because if they’re blaming, they’re not taking any responsibility for any of their behaviors. If nothing changes, nothing changes.
It’s just such a shame because there’s such an opportunity for that person to wake up and say, what the heck have I been doing? Why am I acting like this? Let me just let me do the work and become someone I’m proud of.
Anne (18:50): Debi, thank you so much for spending time talking with us today.
Dr. Debi Silber (18:53): Thank you so much.
Healing From Betrayal Trauma with Dr. Debi Silber
Apr 30, 2024
Dr. Debi Silber’s groundbreaking research at The PBT Institute offers more hope to betrayal victims than ever. She’s discussing the five stages of healing from betrayal trauma and more. Healing from betrayal trauma may feel like a distant hope right now. And that’s okay. But know that healing is possible.
This episode is Part One of Anne’s interview with Dr. Debi Silber. Part One: Healing From Betrayal Trauma with Dr. Debi Silber (this episode) Part Two: Is Forgiveness Helpful For Victims of Betrayal?
The Five Stages of Post Betrayal Transformation:
Stage One: Initially, we rely heavily on our physical and mental strengths, often overlooking our emotional and spiritual sides.
Stage Two: This stage involves a profound disruption of our physical, mental, and worldview framework, highlighted by Discovery Day, the most daunting phase, signifying the collapse of our known reality.
Stage Three: Our survival instincts kick in as we tackle the practicalities of our recovery path.
Stage Four: We acknowledge the disappearance of our former normalcy. Although the betrayal cannot be reversed, we reclaim control over our existence and choose how to use our experiences.
Stage Five: The ultimate phase in overcoming betrayal trauma showcases our resilience and personal evolution. Our focus shifts to bodily recovery and prioritizing self-care as a crucial part of our healing process.
To learn more about Dr. Silber’s research and how it can help you, listen to her previous interviews with Anne:
Her recent study was about how we experience betrayal and it made three groundbreaking discoveries that change how long it takes to heal. Welcome, Debi. I’m so happy you’re here.
Dr. Debi Silber (03:16): Thanks so much. Looking forward to our conversation again.
Dr. Debi Silber’s Research on Healing from Betrayal Trauma
Anne (03:20): Last time you were here you talked about your PhD study and the groundbreaking discoveries you made in the five stages. Can you list them out then we’ll have the link to the full episode in our show notes?
Dr. Debi Silber (03:37): The first discovery was that betrayal is a different type of trauma that needs a different way to heal. If you’ve been through traumas, death of a loved one disease, even natural disaster and betrayal. You will notice there is a big difference.
The difference is the shattering of the self in betrayal, rejection, abandonment, belonging, confidence worthiness, trust. That’s not really affected in other traumas and in betrayal it is. So that type of healing needs its own name, which is now called post betrayal transformation.
The Second Discovery: Post Betrayal Syndrome
The second discovery was that there’s this collection of symptoms, physical, mental, and emotional, so common to betrayal.
It’s known as post betrayal syndrome, and you could be walking around with symptoms that you attribute to just daily stressors or aging or whatever. It could definitely be from a betrayal, even if it happened decades ago, time won’t heal it, a new relationship won’t heal. It healing heals it.
The third discovery revealed that, to fully heal from symptoms of post betrayal syndrome to a completely rebuilt state of post betrayal transformation, we must navigate through five proven, predictable stages.
And what’s even more exciting about that is we know what happens physically, mentally, and emotionally at every stage. We know what it takes to move from one stage to the next. Healing from betrayal trauma is entirely predictable when you move through the five stages.
A Hesitation to Start Healing from Betrayal Trauma
Anne (05:10): I love talking about that. When we’re talking about that healing from betrayal trauma, I have found that some victims are hesitant. I want to use the word hesitant to begin a healing journey because maybe they feel like somehow they’ll lose something if they heal somehow.
Not moving forward to healing to them signals that it mattered, that it had meaning for them. Can you talk about the hesitancy to heal and maybe where that comes from for some victims?
Dr. Debi Silber (05:57): Yeah, that’s very real. So many of us have so much invested in staying exactly in the space and place. One of the biggest reasons being it’s so familiar, it’s what we know. We don’t have to really think about it.
We don’t have to do anything new or different when we start making changes. First of all, people around us typically don’t like it because they like to knowing where you stood and they don’t like not knowing. But we are venturing into the unknown.
We’re venturing into a new space. I’ve seen this so often with people that come into the PPT Institute where people will actually sabotage their healing.
They don’t want to outgrow, let’s say their support group or they don’t want to outgrow their betrayer so they will sabotage their healing so that nothing changes when they truly embrace the idea that they can’t undo what happened, but they control what they do with it.
There’s a Very Real Grieving Process
There’s a very real grieving process that happens. It’s so shocking to people because they’re like, I thought I was doing really well. Why am I so sad now? That sadness is something that’s so unexpected for so many people, but it’s really because you’re moving forward.
So the hesitancy, so much of it has to do with the unknown because it’s so unfamiliar. But there’s so much that happens when you’re willing to move into that space.
Anne (07:23): I also think from a victim blaming point of view, you’re hesitant to heal and that’s why you’re not rather than thinking of it in that way, I want victims to think about safety. How they just have this innate need and desire to be emotionally and psychologically safe and because of the abuse. What they’ve experienced doing something different or doing something new sometimes often can feel unsafe.
So instead of thinking, why am I hesitant? Why wouldn’t I want to heal? Which is sort of a question that might make you feel bad. To think, well, of course I would be concerned about my emotional and psychological safety.
I’ve just been abused for years and of course I want to be careful about what I do next, and I took risks in order to make my relationship work.
A Non-Self Blaming POV
(08:23): I gave of myself, I was adventurous and I got really hurt, and now safety is my top priority. So I’m not going to jump in with both feet into healing per se. I’m just going to stick my toe in to make sure that this journey is safe.
As we consider this and aim to reframe it, how can we assist victims in understanding that healing from betrayal trauma is a journey, not a risky proposition with potential for further injury. There are no guarantees, but how can we reframe their perspective to help them recognize that their hesitancy stems from a desire to be safe?
Everything We do is to be Safe
Dr. Debi Silber (09:10): Think about it. Everything we do is to be safe. So often our intention, we’ve been through so much, we don’t want to take a risk of being hurt again.
This is one of the reasons why typically we will keep people at bay after we’ve been betrayed our hearts were so broken. We don’t want to take the risk of that level of vulnerability and being hurt again, so much of what we’re doing is to be safe.
What I would really invite everybody to consider is when something is a little bit different, your body is so much more perceptive than your mind, so what’s your body telling you about it?
Does it feel open and expansive and sort of freeing or tight and closed? For example, when we teach people how to rebuild trust, we go with most of the most basic feeling so and learn and remember what trust could feel like.
What Does Trust Feel Like to You? When Healing from Betrayal Trauma
(10:15): For example, if you see two babies giggling or your dog wagging his or her tail, whatever that is for you, what does that feel like? Maybe that feeling for you represents trust. Then on the other hand, what does a lack of trust feel like?
What does abuse feel like? How does your body register that and sort of lock both of those feelings in? Yes, those feelings may be a bit extreme, but as you are moving through your day check in. Which feeling as you are doing something, the dipping your toe in that feeling, which feeling does it feel closer to?
Anne (10:55):So there’s an amusement park near my home. It’s literally like 10 minutes away, so we always get season passes. For a few years, I would just walk around there and watch people and they were having fun, they were smiling, and I felt like I was in a fishbowl sort of in that their reality was different than mine.
Manufacturing the Feeling of Being Alive
(11:46): I remember that at one point I went on one of the roller coasters. My kids were young, so I usually didn’t do that. We just usually would walk around and I felt so alive, that feeling of being alive, I felt like I could breathe again, and it was such a different feeling. I started crying.
I just went on a roller coaster. It wasn’t that big of a deal, but I felt like, oh, I’m alive. I can breathe. And it felt so different and it was basically the same place, the same situation, sort of manufacturing that feeling of being alive. I think if we can somehow, when we’re not feeling it, can really help us get unstuck.
Unfamiliar, but not necessarily bad
Dr. Debi Silber (12:26): It’s a great point, and it’s so true. Your body is letting you know what you’re experiencing, and I’m not saying something that’s terrifying do that, not at all.
There is a feeling of something unfamiliar but not necessarily bad. Maybe on the other end of that experience is just this whole new insight that you didn’t know you had. Or this new level of confidence, or you see a new side to yourself.
And so often when we’re afraid and too hesitant to do anything that feels different, we don’t get the benefit of that, and that’s where a tremendous amount of growth is.
That’s not saying that everybody has to do it at the same level. You choose a level that really feels comfortable and right for you. Even if it’s the most incremental changes, one degree at a time, you’re only moving in one of two directions further or closer to everything you want.
If you do no more than just check in as you do that thing. Say that thing, wear that outfit, eat that food, whatever it is. Which direction is it bringing you towards that feeling of being more open, expansive, free, happy or closer to that feeling of tight constricted and something doesn’t feel right.
Enroll in The BTR.ORG Living Free Workshop
Anne (13:53): We have several exercises like this in The BTR.ORG Living Free Workshop that we have where it’s just little tiny incremental things that you can do just today. One of them is noticing one thing that you would be doing even if you were Oprah or even if you were Reese Witherspoon.
If you’re standing there and you’re watching this most beautiful sunset, it’s the same sunset for Oprah, and it’s the same sunset for Reese Witherspoon. It doesn’t get any better than that.
And so there are these moments where you can think, even if my life were perfect, I couldn’t get a better sunset, I would still be watching the same thing. There’s something in that that helps you feel a little bit of peace, a little bit of joy and a little bit of expansiveness in that moment that can help people move forward.
Experiencing Joy: Healing from Betrayal Trauma
Dr. Debi Silber (14:46): I love that point, and it’s really important to just experience that feeling of joy because so often if you’ve been abused and for years, decades, we forget what joy could feel like, but everybody has their own experience. It could be the simplest thing.
It could be that cup of hot coffee or tea, whatever it is, but tap into what that feels like. Then just kind of question, how could I expand this feeling or have this feeling more often?
Because the more you experience that feeling of joy in a way that feels safe and comfortable for you, the more you’re going to want to experience that again, and then it sort of grows.
And now instead of flooding yourself with stress hormones and chemicals which wreak havoc on us physically, besides mentally and emotionally, now you’re flooding yourself with endorphins that creates healing and repair.
https://youtu.be/EkieMWRbvso
BTR is like an Emergency Room for Healing from Betrayal Trauma
Anne (15:45): I’ve been on Debi’s podcast, she’s been on mine. We have remarked that BTR is sort of like the emergency room. You come here because you’re not safe, you’re not stable, you’re currently experiencing abuse. You’ve got to figure out how to make your way to emotional and psychological safety and get to safety so that you can observe from a safe distance. Our BTR.ORG Group Sessions really help women in this phase.
And then as you’re observing kind of feel like, okay, I can make some decisions now. And Debbie’s an expert at post betrayal transformation in where you’re generally safe and stable. Then you’re healing from betrayal trauma.
Well, let’s just talk post-divorce for a minute, maybe five years, maybe even 10 years out, and they’re still hurting. Some victims in this scenario don’t know that they were abused.
They don’t understand that they’re an abuse victim. They’re continuing to be an abuse victim because their ex is still lying about them, still gaslighting, still saying things that are untrue. People are believing what they say.
Post-Separation Abuse & “Forgiveness”
(16:52): It’s really hard to heal in that scenario because you don’t know that you were victimized and you’re feeling like maybe I could have done something better or different. And then there’s a whole new level of trauma when you realize that you were a victim of abuse and maybe still are, even if it’s an ex.
A lot of people when you’re out of the relationship and still struggling, say things that are really hurtful and are confusing and that are not helpful about forgiveness.
Like, Hey, why don’t you just forgive? Or, he’s such a nice guy now I don’t know what the problem is. You keep thinking about the things he did to you, but he’s changed when he really hasn’t changed.
You have these feelings that come up when maybe clergy says, well, the answer’s forgiveness. Or a friend says the answer’s forgiveness, and that just doesn’t feel right. The victims think that’s not it.
Can you talk about why forgiveness is such a triggering word. Why most people who are talking about it, right, maybe clergy, say forgiveness is your answer. They’re not talking about it in the right way and they don’t want the victim to apply it in a way that’s actually helpful to them.
They just mean let it go and reconcile. Perhaps not necessarily use it as a way to free yourself from pain. Let’s just talk about that for a bit.
Understanding the Stages of Healing from Betrayal Trauma
Dr. Debi Silber (18:18): There are a few ways I want to dive into this question. One is it really has so much less to do with the amount of time post-divorce, let’s just say, than what stage are you in as far as the five stages from betrayal to breakthrough?
The scenario you described that is clearly someone stuck in stage three, and that’s the most commonplace.
We get stuck and there’s so much anger, there’s so much frustration and sadness and pain and the days and months and years are going by, but there’s very little healing as far as the person who’s been betrayed. Things are compounded, but nothing is really healing.
And stage three is very action oriented, but action oriented around the problem. It’s when we move to stage four, that’s where transformation begins. By the way, that’s when we are realizing it has really nothing to do with them.
I Can’t Undo This Experience, But I Change How I Move Through It
(19:21): I can’t undo this experience, but I change how I move through it. And instead of us giving that person the benefit of our thoughts and our energy and everything, we sort of harness that back and say, you know what? You don’t really deserve that.
I do, and I’m going to use it instead for my own healing and repair. Look at it like this. Best case scenario, we have a hundred percent of our energy.
If we are dedicating and devoting 30, 40, 50 plus percent to what are they doing? Who are they with? How are they experiencing, why are they lying? And everybody thinks they’re so great and all of this. We only have the remainder for our own healing and repair.
So logic has so little to do with healing from betrayal trauma. Here’s where logic really makes sense because when you realize how much energy we’re devoting towards the problem. That’s when it’s debilitating to us because if we were to take that, use it for ourselves, that would move us into stage four.
Stage Four: We’re More Interested & Invested in Our Own Healing from Betrayal Trauma
(20:24):That’s just one thing that I want to say off the bat because in stage four, it doesn’t matter what that person is saying. It doesn’t matter who that person is with, we know the truth and we’re more interested and invested in our own healing and repair.
Let’s get to the forgiveness piece When it comes to forgiveness, if forgiveness is done for the wrong reasons, it backfires every time.
How you were saying the clergy with their suggestions, that really has nothing to do with how we feel about the whole forgiveness process. You’re right, you said it. It’s so true. Forgiveness has nothing to do with that other person.
Really what we’re doing is we’re releasing ourselves from the power all that pain has over us. So forgiving doesn’t mean we’re condoning the behavior, we’re setting ourselves up for it to happen again, we’re giving that person a free pass. We’re weak, we’re a sucker.
No, it means we’re releasing the power all that pain has and that connection we have to that person, to that problem, to that pain so that we can heal.
And that’s when forgiveness is very powerful. But if we’re just doing it because it’ll be easier, that’s what everybody else wants, and nothing has changed, that is a recipe for just more challenges and stress related illness, a hundred percent.
Anne (21:47): Debbie and I are going to pause the conversation here, but we will continue it next week, so stay tuned.
How Long Does It Take To Heal From Emotional Abuse?
Apr 23, 2024
If you’re trying to heal from your husband’s emotional abuse, here are three important factor to consider. These factors will have a significant impact on how quickly you’ll be able to recover.
1. Has His Emotional Abuse Stopped?
The first factor that affects how long it will take to heal from emotional abuse is making sure the emotional abuse has stopped. Emotional abuse includes a variety of behaviors that come out of his exploitative privilege. If he thinks his “needs” and “rights” are more important than yours, chances are he’s emotionally abusive.
Is he currently doing any of the following?
Lying
Blaming you for things that aren’t your fault
Stonewalling
Criticizing
Gaslighting
Using pornography / infidelity
If the emotional abuse is currently happening, whether you’re still married, separated, or divorced, if his emotional abuse hasn’t stopped or you haven’t put enough distance between you and his abuse, your healing from it can’t begin.
2. Have You Learned How to Separate Yourself From His Emotional Abuse?
Healing from emotional abuse takes as long as it takes you to learn how to separate yourself from the abuse. If you have the right information, healing time can be reduced significantly.
The good news is, you’re strong and capable. The only thing holding you back has been having the correct framework for what’s been happening to you. It’s not your fault. No one teaches the general public about how to separate from emotional abuse.
The other good news, you’ve come to the right place. Betrayal Trauma Recovery specializes in teaching women how to recognize emotional abuse and exactly what to do if you’re experiencing it.
The FREE BTR.ORG Emotional Abuse Quiz is a great place to start to both get educated about emotional abuse and see if it’s happening to you.
The BTR.ORG Living Free Workshop teaches victims of abuse exactly what’s going on and exactly what to do to make her way to emotional safety.
3. Do You Have the Appropriate Support to Heal from His Emotional Abuse?
Healing from his emotional abuse takes time, but the duration of the healing process can be significantly reduced when you have appropriate support.
Appropriate support comes from women who have experienced their husband’s emotional abuse and have developed emotional safety. It’s validating and empowering.
You’ll heal faster if the support doesn’t blame you for any of the abuse or suggest that you somehow caused it or enabled it.
Betrayal Trauma Support Group, a daily support for women who want to heal from emotional abuse is the safest place to both learn about and heal from emotional abuse.
On the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast, emotional abuse expert Anne Blythe shared her insights on how she developed specific strategies to heal from emotional abuse as quickly as possible.
In this episode, Anne covers these points about Emotional Abuse:
Anne: Many of you have listened to the podcast for a long time and you took the Living Free Workshop. When we used to run it live, there were several issues with the live version. One of them was in four parts, and so people missed a part and they got behind.
How to Recover from Emotional Abuse: The Evolution of Living Free
I decided that we were going to do it online. Let me give you some background on Living Free. I developed the strategies in Living Free and the Message Workshop as I was attempting to deliver myself and my children from my abusive ex.
I had been divorced and he was still being emotionally and psychologically abusive, like post-divorce for eight years. My life was very difficult. Every single day.
I lost a big court case to him. He got more custody. I mean, things were just hard. He was counter parenting. He was canceling my kids’ medical appointments.
Emotional Abuse Post-Divorce
(00:51): Many women still experience emotional abuse even after divorce. For example, my ex wasn’t paying half of what he was supposed to pay from the divorce decree. He justified it through constantly undermining me and our children.
So those of you who are married, when we were married, he was difficult the whole time, but I didn’t realize it. I thought back then that boundaries meant telling him very clearly how upset I was with his behavior. Also, maybe giving him an hour long lecture, which didn’t help me be any safer.
He never changed his behavior. We’d go to a lot of therapy. We’d do a lot of pornography, addiction recovery stuff, so that didn’t help. As I started BTR I started thinking, how do we really genuinely get to safety? What is the path?
Anytime any woman who is experiencing emotional and psychological abuse and sexual coercion, if her husband’s using pornography or if he’s having affairs. If you try to go the therapy route or the pornography addiction recovery route.
Why This Workshop Helps Heal Emotional Abuse
(01:48): Over the years dealing with thousands of women that come to BTR and just my experience helping people, that doesn’t tend to get us to safety.
In fact, we end up being more and more unsafe. Especially because we’ve been vulnerable with someone who’s just weaponizing our emotions against us. As I’ve been the executive director at BTR for eight years, I’ve been podcasting forever.
I thought, we need clear action steps and they need to work. We ran Living Free for a couple of years live. I found that live, it was really hard for people to understand the concepts.
When I decided to change living free into a video workshop, it was really nice to be able to film the scenarios so that you could see it in the New Living Free Workshop.
There are examples of men who will have this same facial expressions that your husband is giving you. So you’re actually able to see the concepts and process them a little bit better.
Transition to Online Video Workshops
(02:58): Those of you who have been waiting, thank you so much for waiting patiently. I wanted to get it right. The other thing I wanted to do was make sure that the concepts worked. So over the years as women have practiced these strategies, we’ve kept in touch with them.
I’ve made sure to talk to them in person. I’ve made sure to see, did it work? Did it help you get to safety ? All the reports back are that the concepts are amazing and that the strategies work. Same thing with the Message Workshop.
I worked with women over two years personally writing their messages, helping them so that we could see does this work? Yes, it does. I know it works. Any effort that we take to get to safety is awesome.
We could resist it in ways that are effective. We can resist it in ways that aren’t effective, but resistance in and of itself is great.
Testing and Proving How To Heal Emotional Abuse
(03:55): As we try to think, how can I resist abuse more effectively? That’s where Living Free and Message Workshop come into play.
In the upcoming months, I’m going to have the women who I helped write their messages on the podcast so that you can listen to their stories and listen to the experiences that they had. It was an incredible time to be with them on their journey to safety.
The messages they received were traumatizing. I sort of got secondary trauma from being like, wow, how are we really going to get you to safety? So it was through their help that we developed this and so many women are so brave to experiment to try new things.
It’s not really that hard for the women who I helped to be willing to be sort of test cases for the Message workshop and the Living Free workshop because they’d already tried everything else.
Effective Resistance Against Emotional Abuse
(04:52): They tried everything. The therapist had told them they had tried everything that Clergy had told them, and there wasn’t really anything else to try. This is that. It’s totally different than anything else, because it’s strategic.
I, along with my kids, achieved complete liberation from my ex outside of court, proving it works better than anything else. The other issue is that whenever any woman starts to make her way to safety, the abuser is not going to like it.
No matter what type of strategy you use to resist abuse, the abuse will escalate slightly. The only way it doesn’t escalate is if you’re not actually getting to safety. If he feels like, oh, this is the same thing, I’m still able to exploit her, then it’s not going to escalate that much because you’re not actually getting safe.
He’s still actually just exploiting you. So for a lot of women who think he’s not so bad, he’s really good, and then they keep having things happen over and over and then we start using the living free end message workshop strategies,
Abuser’s Reaction When You Start Healing From Emotional Abuse
Anne (05:57): They do see a bit of escalation like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I actually can’t exploit her anymore. The women feel better because they’re actually getting to safety.
It is kind of a delicate dance at that point to continue to use those safety strategies through that phase until he finally is just like, oh, I’m never going to be able to exploit her again. These strategies are effective while you’re in a marriage.
They are effective after divorce. They are effective if you are separated, and the good news is they’re all in line with just general good person principles. So they’re kind, I want to put kind in quotes. They don’t involve violence.
They don’t involve behavior that society in general would frown upon. It’s all upstanding behavior. If you have in writing or if they recorded it or if they somehow documented it, you would look great in court.
Applying the Strategies Across Different Situations
(06:57): So that’s also really cool. I so appreciate your patience. So many of you have been waiting for this. I just wanted to get it right and so that’s why it took so long. It matters to me that they are tested, that they are proven.
It mattered to me that they would actually work. I know the principles are correct and true principles. My job is to educate you in a way that makes sense. And then there’s the second part, which is application.
The application is where it always gets tricky because it might be different for everyone in their own situation. Application with any principle is an experiment. As you enroll in the Living Free Workshop, as you enroll in the message workshops, just so you can have a base understanding of these safety strategies, keep in mind that the way you apply it is going to make a difference.
If you’re having trouble applying it in a way that’s working, then please schedule a session with one of our coaches.
Educating and Applying Workshop Principles
(07:57): Coach Maddie and Coach Brianna are specifically trained to help people with their messages, and then any of the coaches can help with the strategies and living free in BTR.ORG Individual Sessions.
If you have enrolled in the Living Free workshop and you’d like to come on the podcast to share your experience, or if you enroll and you have questions and you want to talk to me about it.
I would love to talk to you about it on the podcast so that we can kind of keep an open discussion about how to apply it and learn as a group as you guys start applying this stuff.
So please email my assistant at podcast@btr.org if you’d like to talk about it on air with other people, and I can answer your questions. We can talk about your specific situation, enroll and then email her at podcast at Betrayal Trauma Recovery and then we can talk on air and that will help everybody.
Anne’s Journey from Emotional Abuse Crisis to Expertise
(08:44): You can go to btr.org/workshops to get more information, and I cannot wait for you guys to enroll. You’ll love it. I also want to talk about social media. When I started BTR, I was crying in my basement. I just felt so much pain and I was so scared and so worried.
In the process of the last eight years, I’ve become an expert on emotional abuse through reading and studying, but also experimenting and applying the principles to my own life, delivering myself and my kids from the abuse.
It’s been so fun to help the other women with their messages. I decided, okay, I’m going to be the one that does the social media videos and I’m going to start posting. It’s hard. I don’t want to post about what I ate for breakfast.
The Mission to Reach Women Who Need Help Healing From Emotional Abuse
(09:44): That just doesn’t interest me. I don’t want to share stuff I’m doing personally in my life, apparently besides the most personal parts, haha.
This is serious stuff, I want to reach women who need help. That’s what I’ve always wanted to do for the last eight years.
It is my personal mission to make sure that every single woman who cannot figure out what’s going on, who is praying, who is concerned, who is thinking, what therapist do I go to or what program can I get for my husband.
How can I heal my marriage, so that they get correct information about what’s actually going on. My heart is heavy. Thinking about all the incorrect information floating around about emotional and psychological abuse. Especially sexual coercion, especially when it comes to the pornography addiction recovery community and couple therapy community, and how they approach this in a way that they just do not recognize the abuse.
Challenges in Addressing Emotional Abuse
(10:52): So I’m on social media doing these videos. If you’re on social media and you wouldn’t mind following and sharing the stuff, I would appreciate it. If not, that totally makes sense. Social media stresses me out.
It’s a little bit scary, but it has been an awesome opportunity to interact with women all over the world and hear their stories. It’s very humbling to know that there are just so many women who need help. I’m grateful that you found BTR.
I’m grateful when any woman shares the message of truth about abuse, about how abusive pornography, addiction or pornography use in a marriage is so that we collectively can reduce the amount of suffering to women throughout the world.
I would love to save marriages, and make families whole. I used to refer to some men’s programs for abusers. In seeing the aftermath of it, they weren’t solving that root cause of his abuse, and in so many cases, the men were weaponizing the stuff they learned in these programs.
Anne’s Reflection on How Men’s Programs Don’t Stop The Emotional Abuse
(12:00): You’ll see that if a man wants to change, this is what he’ll do and you can see it in living free really, really clearly. He will of his own free will take action after eight years of witnessing women and talking to them about how did it go in this men’s program?
How did it go in this type of therapy? How did it go? Usually at first, they think it’s great. Usually at first they’re like, oh, it worked really, really well. And then I talked to him a year later and they’re like, oh, my word. I didn’t know he was still lying to me.
The therapist said that I could trust him and I couldn’t, or in some cases he did a polygraph and he passed the polygraph, but they still felt uncomfortable. Then later found out that he lied really well because he passed the polygraph, but he was still lying. Women’s emotional and psychological safety is my absolute top priority.
https://youtu.be/Zph1yh2jOjA
Disillusionment with Men’s Recovery Programs
(12:56): I just don’t recommend men’s programs anymore. It’s just not something that I think a victim of abuse should ever even have to consider. Rather than think about how can I help my husband be a better person, really need to focus on their emotional and psychological and sexual safety.
Hopefully, as a result of her getting to safety, she can observe from a safe distance and he will realize as he wants to change. That is the best case scenario, and as described in Lundy Bancroft’s book and the verbally abusive relationship and basically all really solid abuse books.
That’s the only route, I wish there was another one. I tried to figure it out for a few years, I did., I thought, can a program do this? I tested it out. It didn’t, and I feel bad about that, but probably all of you were curious too, right?
Marriage vs. Pre-Marriage Counseling Discrepancies
(13:52): All of us were. If I could go back in time, I was hoping so much for a program to save my family, and now I don’t think that ever would’ve existed. The hope is, I hope that he figures it out because when it comes to these behaviors like, don’t lie to your wife, is pretty low bar.
It drives me crazy when people are like, oh, well, you’ve just set the bar too high. All men use porn, and if you want to be in a marriage then you kind of have to deal with abuse. I don’t think that’s the case. I don’t think all men are abusive.
It’s not too high of a bar to expect that your husband doesn’t lie to your face. I don’t think it’s too high of a bar that you expect your husband genuinely cares about you and that he’s not just manipulating you to exploit you.
Programs for Emotional Abusers Don’t Work
(14:39): I mean, that’s the very lowest bar to think that these men haven’t heard it somewhere before, like church or therapy or their work, sexual harassment training. Really, do we think these men are that ignorant and if they are, you see the concern there?
I’ve been thinking a lot about how, at least in my faith, they would for sure be like, okay, if he doesn’t treat you well, if he lies to you, if he uses porn, do not date him anymore. Break up. But if you are in a marriage then they don’t give the same advice.
They’re like, well, he’s a good guy and he’s trying to get help, or he’s going to get better. I’m wondering why the difference in counsel between pre-marriage and after marriage, it’s mind boggling to me.
Before you’re married, if you said, does this guy know that lying is wrong? They’d be like, well, if he doesn’t know it’s wrong or if he knows it’s wrong and he does it anyway, you should not date him anymore.
Dealing with Abusive Behavior Without External Programs
(15:41): But after marriage, oh, he didn’t learn that anywhere. No one’s ever told him that lying is bad, so he needs to go to a program that’s just not true. He for sure knows, and he’s choosing to do it in order to be able to exploit you.
These issues are complex. They are long-term. I feel like the strategies in the BTR Living Free Workshop and the Message Workshop really accurately describe what’s happening and will give you actual action steps that work that don’t put you in danger, and that also leave space for him to change.
They leave space to just observe, to see does he want this? Is this the kind of lifestyle that he wants? That was one of the things that was, I think the hardest for me was when I was observing from a distance, and I mean at first I thought somebody needs to tell him he doesn’t know.
A Woman’s Safety From Emotional Abuse as the Central Focus
(16:42): After a while, I thought, of course he knows because he would act so awesome sometimes, so he knows what to do. He just doesn’t want to lose his exploitative privilege. It was heartbreaking to watch him continue to make those choices as I was waiting for him to make different choices, which he didn’t make.
I ended up divorced and then being abused for eight years after. I have heard stories of people who use these strategies and then he realizes, which is cool. Neither of those scenarios involves trying to get him in a program or trying to help him change.
Center on a woman who is getting to safety from emotional abuse, emotional, and psychological safety, so those workshops give those action steps. Very clear step.
I also did the meditation workshop because there were so many times where I was so stressed out. I was crying and I couldn’t stop or I couldn’t really feel anything. The meditation workshop helps women feel peace and loved immediately when they need comfort and they can’t get comfort any other way.
Relief through Meditation Workshop
(17:56): That is also available through btr.org/meditation. Anyway, sorry. Just a lot of information today, but I’ve had so much going on. I’ve been so busy for the last three or four years developing these things, testing them, trying them out with women, and I’m really tired actually.
I’m really tired. If you’ve been listening for a while and you’re so inclined, I would appreciate your prayers. Especially as I embark on new things like social media and I’m almost done with my book. It’s been a hard road and I’m really tired, and as much as I want to rest this second.
I hear a woman in need or I get a message on social media or someone emails or I find out that someone that I know in real life is going through emotional abuse. Then my exhaustion sort of gets set aside and I think, how can I not help?
Appreciation for Support For Healing from Emotional Abuse
(18:58): There’s no way. There’s no way I could see a woman in pain and in need who needs these strategies and not be there. Because I can’t help everybody personally, that’s why I developed the workshops, and that’s also why we have coaches here.
They’re so well trained, they’re incredible. I cannot be everywhere at once. I wish I could be though. I’m just of course exhausted. I think you’re probably exhausted too.
Emotional abuse has a way of doing that. As much as it’s very energizing to help emotional abuse victims is also just exhausting to be dealing with abuse all the time, so thank you so much for your prayers.
Thank you so much for your well wishes and your support. It has meant so much to me over the years. I am here, working hard. I will continue to work hard, so, so glad that living free and message workshops have finally launched.
Request for Prayers and Continuing the Mission
(19:55): I’m so glad to finally have the energy, I don’t know. I wouldn’t be here and I wouldn’t have learned these things and I wouldn’t have had the time or the ability to learn these strategies and then also experiment with them with women.
Had you not supported BTR by listening, so thank you. One of the main ways that you can help get the word out is just by following the podcast, just click follow on Spotify or Apple Podcast.
That helps a ton sharing social media if you feel like I do and you don’t want any other woman to suffer, those are really good ways to help out. I love your comments.
It’s not often that I fish for validation, I guess, but I could really use your prayers right now. I’ve been in really tough spots. It’s you, the listeners, the BTR community who have got me through it.
Gratitude for Listeners Who Are Likely Experiencing Emotional Abuse Themselves
(20:53): You tell me or you tell the coaches. It was BTR that helped me get through this hard time. You helped me get through the hard time of being on the front lines every day, interacting with women all over the world who are going through this.
It’s such an honor to be on these front lines and to hear your stories, to sit with you in the pain. It is an honor to know you. It is an honor that you listen, and I’m so grateful that we work together to make this world a better place. Thank you so much.
Teaching Your Children Healthy Sexuality – The Best Resource
Apr 16, 2024
In a world that has normalized pornography and romanticizes unhealthy relationships, parents need help to learn how to teach healthy sexuality to their children. Luckily, there are resources to help parents teach healthy sexuality in a way that works for everyone.
This episode is Part Two of Anne’s interview with Dina Alexander. Part One: The “Sex Talk”: What YOU Need to Know Part Two: Learn How to Teach Your Kids Healthy Sexuality(this episode)
3 Ways Parents Can Teach Healthy Sexuality
When it comes to teaching healthy sexuality, it’s important to make sure the resources you use really help your kids:
Initiating open & honest conversations to teach healthy sexuality. Conversations relating to various aspects of sex, body image, pornography, the potential influence of media, and relationships.
Teaching media literacy. As children and teens begin to understand the intents and impacts of the media, they may be better equipped to seek out and develop healthy relationships and a healthy understanding of sex.
Emphasizing the importance of healthy relationships. In the BTR community, we understand how difficult it can be to teach healthy relationships when emotional & psychological abuse have been present in your home. However, Educate and Empower Kids has a wide variety of resources available to assist parents in teaching these concepts. Not only do they have incredible resources for children, but for parents as well.
Removing Sexualization to Teach Healthy Sexuality
Anne (00:00): Talking about “modesty” is one way to bring up healthy sexuality. Well, I think about a professional surfing competition. For example, a women’s professional surfing competition, their uniform is going to be a swimsuit.
(03:05): If you’re going to be like, well, I can’t interact with people or I’m not going to take this seriously. If you don’t teach your kids, this is not a sexual situation. This woman is a competitive athlete. I think it’s so anti-porn to be like women exercising in competitions, women on track teams, women doing gymnastics, whatever. This is not a sexual situation.
This is their uniform that they’re wearing to do a sport and that needs to be respected. It’s crazy to me that there are men who are so conditioned to view women as sexual objects that they think of surfing as a sexual situation or track or the hurdles. It’s not. The hurdles is not sexual.
She’s just jumping over hurdles. We need to take that analogy way too far. That’s another thing I want to talk to my kids about is if you use porn, you might start thinking that there’s sexual things going on all over the place. In your head, you might make it sexual because you’re watching someone in a surfing competition or a track or any other scenario.
The Impact of Media on Perception on Healthy Sexuality
Dina Alexander (04:16): Our brains are conditioned that way for everybody who’s like, oh, porn is not addictive. If you don’t believe that, that’s one thing, but also to think that it does not change your brain and affect you.
I always refer back to the few months, I don’t know how long ago, maybe 15 years ago. I read romance novels for a few months and I could see that I was starting to objectify people.
It did not take long for me to start thinking of other people as sexually available before they had just been other people that I walked past or worked out next to in my little community center gym.
Again, these are great, great discussions to talk about how media, social media, television, videos, porn. How they are just so powerful to our brains and that we are getting different messages about sex all the time, but that we have to really stop and think, and so that’s why this is such a great discussion to have over and over again. Now is always the time to talk to teach healthy sexuality.
“I want my kids to form their own ideas and opinions about what is amazing about sex.”
Dina Alexander, Educate and Empower Kids
(05:19): You’re watching sports, okay, maybe you pause it and talk about isn’t that an amazing athlete? Look at her do the high jump. Can you believe that she is able to jump that high? Are we talking about how powerful and important and special our bodies are.
But, also talking about what is it that might cause us whether we’re walking past Victoria’s Secret at the mall or something else that what is it that affects us? Because each of us, it’s individual and helping our kids see that within themselves and identify what impacts them and what is healthy and what is not so that they can form.
Because to me, what really angers me about pornography is that it forces on our kids this idea of what is sexy and what is not hot and what is not.
I want my kids to form their own ideas and opinions about what is amazing about sex, what is amazing about their body and their partner’s body, not what this industry of McDonald’s sex is saying is sexy and wonderful. So that’s why I think that’s just a great discussion.
Teach Healthy Sexuality: Discussing Media Manipulation and Its Impact
Anne (06:29): Yeah, it is. Nothing about it is unquote sexy. It’s just gross and violent and vile and evil and exploitative.
Dina Alexander (06:41): It’s abusive, like you said. I love that you said that. To put that in that context for our kids, to help them to see how manipulative it is, because that right there is a great discussion.
Maybe this is an easy sex talk for a parent who’s intimidated of looking at different media and seeing how it manipulates us. A movie I liked, but I cannot watch again, is Interstellar.
To me, it’s a fascinating movie, but to me it is so emotionally strong and in a sense manipulative, because I get so involved in this movie and the sadness and this and that. It’s a tool that is used that media is so powerful.
Whether it’s by music, whether it’s by what we’re seeing, whether it’s by an explosion or whether it’s by a naked body, and helping our kids see how this is meant to manipulate us, and at the end of the day, it’s about making money, right?
Navigating the Challenges of Pornography in Modern Relationships
(07:35): It’s not about educating us, helping us feel good about ourselves, helping us to have great sex lives. It’s not, it’s about manipulating us to make money, and so boom, it’s so important for our kids to see that because this is their future. This is what they are going to be seeing around them.
So my youngest right now is 17, and I remember when I first started this a decade ago, talking to my daughter and saying, Hey, it’s very likely that the boys you go out with are going to have an issue with pornography. She had four boyfriends in high school.
Three of them happened to be a member of our church. I’m a Latter Day Saint, and they all had an issue with pornography.
Anne (08:15): Didn’t we have your daughter on the podcast talking about these? It’s also something that comes up in BTR.ORG Group Sessions a lot.
Dina Alexander (08:18): Oh, yes. That’s right. Thank you. Then, but also having to now tell my sons, when they started dating. Saying, the days have changed because that industry, that porn industry is now targeting our daughters so much that you are going to need to have those discussions when you’re dating.
When you’re thinking about marrying your partner, you’re going to have to have discussions about porn and how that has affected your and your partner’s ideas of sex.
Whether you’ve seen porn once or five times or 50 times, it is going to affect how you think about sex and how you think about your own body. You’re going to need to have those discussions that it’s our sons need to be aware of that as well. Now, it’s no longer just preparing our daughters.
30 Days of Sex Talks for Ages 12+
Anne (09:03): Alright, Dina, so I’ve got 30 Days of Sex Talks for Ages 12 Plus, the Second Edition in my hands, and I’m just going to randomly flip this thing open and see what we’ve got and let’s just talk about this concept here as we close today. Does that sound like a plan? It’s my favorite book to help me teach healthy sexuality.
Dina Alexander (09:50): Sounds great.
Anne (09:51): Alright, here we go. So I’m closing my eyes and I am randomly doing this. Hopefully we won’t get your least favorite one. Alright. Oh my word. You’ll not believe this. Page 17, “Pornography,” literally, that was just completely random.
Completely random. So when I’m looking at this book, I can see a couple things. There are some definitions, for example, so it’s got the definition of pornography, how to start the conversation.
Exploring the Interactive Features of Dina’s E-Books to Teach Healthy Sexuality
Dina Alexander (10:23): The Kindle version, these are all clickable links. If you buy the book on our website, you can choose to buy the Kindle version or another kind of ebook that is good for any kind of tablet or laptop. So then those are linkable.
If you buy the print version, then you would have to type in the name of the article. Most of these are articles going back to our website that have just a little more information or if you want to go a little deeper on certain topics. That’s why we have these additional resources. But like I said, if you buy it from the website as a PDF or as a Kindle, those are all clickable links.
Anne (11:04): Awesome. So one of the sections is questions for your child. What an great way to teach healthy sexuality. So you’ve got a start the conversation and then you’ve got some ideas and then questions for your child. Let’s just read run of ’em randomly. Okay.
I’m going to close my eyes and I’m just going to point to one of these questions. Here we go. Ready there. Okay. How do your friends feel about porn? That’s a really good question. When you got feedback from parents, how did they feel about this question section?
Thoughtful Questions to Teach Healthy Sexuality to Kids
Dina Alexander (11:32): They loved it because we don’t just pick typical questions of, oh, okay, what do you think pornography is?
Where have you seen it? It’s like, yeah, those are important foundational questions, but again, we want to create this big picture for helping our kids understand the world around them. Especially something like pornography or in the lesson proceeding.
It’s just about more different media and how it affects our sex life. These are simple questions. How do your friends feel about porn? It’s typically not as threatening because you’re not putting your child on the spot, you’re letting them just think about what are the attitudes around sex?
That’s been one of the most eye-opening questions for me to ask my kids what they’re hearing at school. For my daughter, for my two sons, it has been amazing and sometimes scary.
When I did a few years ago, I did a little thing on predators for my YouTube about how to identify predators, et cetera. I had my son at the time, my middle son who was 16, edit it, and he goes, Mom, everything you said in there was right.
Helping Children Identify Harmful Behaviors
(12:41): And I said, what do you mean? In my mind, I’m like, well, of course it’s right. But he said, I had a kid in my class one time show me pictures of nudes of his girlfriend, and I asked him, what are you doing with those? How did you get those?
And he started telling my son how he got those, and he said, Mom, it was everything that you had said in that predator conversation. It was the grooming her, giving her compliments, making her feel special, blah, blah, blah.
And so that right there, great conversation with my son about predators, but helping them to see that these things are going on around them.
Unfortunately kids are learning predatory behavior at younger and younger ages, thanks to pornography again. Is just a simple question that for any of these topics.
When you go to the masturbation topic, abusive relationships topic, or the positive aspects of sex section in this book, asking them what they’re hearing in school. Asking what their friends are talking about is eyeopening. If we don’t teach healthy sexuality, they will learn it from somewhere else.
“We want our kids to understand that we’re a safe place.”
(13:46): But my youngest now, again, who’s 17, him telling me about kids, talking about their recent sex-capades of their body count in the locker room. Talking about, oh, that they’re dating and now they have moved on the fifth or sixth date have moved to oral sex.
These things are just helpful to us as parents to get that understanding of what our kids are going through, what they are experiencing. It is up to us to teach healthy sexuality.
And also it typically helps us realize, okay, I need to talk about these because everyone else in a sense is talking to our kids about sex in some way. We want our kids to understand I’m a safe place. I’m not going to be angry or judgmental. If you’ve heard something, if you’ve experienced something, I’m here to love you, give you information and help you be a strong human being.
Helping Children Understand the Abusive Nature of Pornography
Anne (14:37): Well, and for me, always teaching them that these things are abusive. So this is pornography, but it’s not just wrong. The reason why it’s wrong is because it’s abusive. It’s not wrong because your pastor said it’s wrong.
It’s not because it’s embarrassing, it’s wrong because it’s abusive to another human being. In order to engage in that type of behavior, predatory behavior, you are being abusive, you’re harming someone, and that is so, so important for people to learn.
I think back in the day, well, if I use porn, it’s going to hurt me. Maybe I’ll go to hell, but at least I’m not hurting anybody else. They didn’t realize 10, 15 years ago.
But anytime you do any of the behaviors surrounding porn, deceit, hiding any of those things, using using manipulation, you are abusing someone and that makes you an abuser and you need to stop in order to be healthy
You can learn how to teach healthy sexuality.
Dina Alexander (15:35): And that we can do better that just because again, other people are doing it, our neighbor, our friends at school, our friends at lunchtime, that we don’t have to do that. And that again, that there are simple ways that even that our kids can stand up and say to their friends, that’s not cool.
That’s bigger than you have any idea of, and I love that you said that about just, again, teaching our kids that it’s abusive because that’s what I love about our books is we’ve made them very open so that you can put your knowledge, your experience, your research, your values into each conversation.
All of us have different things that we want to emphasize, that we understand that we’ve been through. To teach healthy sexuality we just get on this whole other level and we want our kids to get it. And so that’s where these can be such powerful discussions.
“We took them to that place of safety and openness.”
(16:26): One of the best side effects of when we were preparing these books way back was how great the conversations were. We would set out to have a five minute conversation, maybe 10 minutes, and our kids would come back to us with such great questions. It was a great opportunity to teach healthy sexuality.
The discussion usually went 30, 40 minutes because they had such insightful questions, because we took them to that place of safety and openness.
And also we were asking these questions from the books that were, again, not just typical, okay, do you understand penis and vagina? It’s like, okay, great. They get that there’s so much more to sex these days that we want them to understand that full amazing picture.
Anne (17:08): Or the full just blah picture. I mean, it’s great. I simultaneously tell my kids sex, for some people feels really good and it’s awesome. And for me it was just not great. I didn’t like it. And maybe your dad is abusive. Most likely, yes, that is why, but I have never had sex with someone who wasn’t abusive.
Teach Healthy Sexuality: Inaccurate Media Portrayals of Sex
Dina Alexander (17:30): But I love that they’re getting that picture. That they’re understanding all the pieces to it, that it’s not like television. It’s not this amazing screaming simultaneous orgasm every time, and everyone lives happily ever after that again, that there is –
Anne (17:45): It’s like never like that for the people who are like, oh, sex is beautiful. I’m always like, is it? I don’t know. It’s fine. It’s fine. I’m not anti-sex for sure, but I just didn’t enjoy it at all because of my situation.
To let our sons know and our daughters that sex can be, I hear from other people, I believe you, that it can be great. That’s awesome. Shine on, good for you.
But if there’s abuse involved, it’s not going to be fun. It’s not going to be enjoyable. It’s going to be miserable for somebody. And also the person who even is the predator in that situation, it might feel good for that moment, but they’re not getting what sex was meant to be about.
Understanding Abusive Sex
Dina Alexander (18:33): There’s just no way for an abuser or a predator like that to not go to that dark place after maybe they got off, but then they go back to that dark cave. So again, it’s –
Anne (18:44): Well, it’s all about them.
Dina Alexander (18:45): Absolutely.
Anne (18:46): It’s all about them. It’s about that hit and it’s about their orgasm and it’s about their relationship to themselves, but it’s never about the we.
Dina Alexander (18:55): That’s a perfect analogy for porn because it’s never about the partner. It’s always about themselves, my own orgasm, my own pleasure, and what I’m going to do to you, not what we’re going to do together and create and share together as sex partners.
So that’s exactly right. And again, helping our kids see the ins and outs, but I think also helping them understand the power that they have within them to have good relationships. Also to help to create that life for themself by empowering them with this kind of knowledge, to understand that full picture, that yes, sex can be amazing, but sex can be horrific if not done kindly.
Sex Is Not One-Size-Fits-All
Anne (19:42): Or just boring. It can also just be boring. I remember telling my ex, is it okay if I read, can I just read during this? Because this is so boring.
Dina Alexander (19:56): Oh man. I would’ve loved to have seen that face when you said that.
Anne (19:59): Yeah. I was like, what’s going on? I just feel like you’re just like this hairy bear and you’re literally, you’re poking me with a stick on the inside and it’s just not that fun. I’m sorry. Would you want to get poked with a stick? No, no. Anyway, he was always so offended when I was just like, this is just whatever. Why is this happening?
Dina Alexander (20:20): I love you. I love you.
Anne (20:28): Alright, well, you’re amazing, Dina. Thank you so much for spending time with me today, and talking about how to teach kids healthy sexuality Dina,
Dina Alexander (20:41): Thank you so much for having me. I loved it.
How to Talk To Your Kids About Sex
Apr 09, 2024
Wondering how to have the sex talk with your kids? Here are a few ideas to help you be a safe place for your kids to turn for sex education.
Dina Alexander, founder and CEO of Educate and Empower Kids shares what YOU need to know as you prepare to have the sex talk with your kids. Topics include sex, pornography, and body image.
This episode is Part One of Anne’s interview with Dina Alexander. Part One: The “Sex Talk”: What YOU Need to Know (this episode) Part Two: Learn How to Teach Your Kids Healthy Sexuality
The Sex Talk: What Every Parent Needs to Know
“I want every parent to know: You can do this. You’ve got this. You don’t have to be an expert. And you don’t have to be in the field. You don’t have to have a training in sex education to cover things that they’re learning about on the playground, whether that’s anal sex or oral sex or masturbation or pornography or addiction, social media. All those things are just so interrelated with the Sex Talks and anybody can do it with just a little bit of study and a lot of caring for their child. You can do this.”
Dina Alexander, Educate and Empower Kids
What Resources Can Help You Have The Sex Talk With Your Kids?
Dina offers incredible insights and empowering encouragement in this episode. Are you eager to have healthy, open discussions with your kids? Here’s how Educate and Empower Kids can help you with the sex talk:
Wherever you are on your journey to teaching your children about healthy sexuality, remember that it’s never too early or too late.
At BTR, we understand how sensitive and difficult this topic can be for mothers. Remember to offer yourself compassion and support as you navigate this aspect of parenting. Attend a BTR.ORG Group Session today.
Anne (00:01): Dina Alexander is the founder and CEO of Educate and Empower Kids. It’s an organization determined to strengthen families by teaching digital citizenship, media literacy, and healthy sexuality education, including education about the dangers of online pornography.
She’s the creator of Noah’s New Phone, a story about using technology for good, Petra’s Power to see a media literacy adventure, How to Talk to Your Kids About Pornography and the 30 Days of Sex Talks and 30 Days to a Stronger Child programs.
She received a master’s degree in recreational therapy from the University of Utah and her bachelor’s from Brigham Young University. She tries to be a great mom and loves spending time with her family and she lives in New Mexico. Welcome, Dina.
Other Resources to Help Educate Your Kids About Healthy Sex
Anne (02:15): So Dina and I have known each other a very long time. We’re personal friends. We know each other in real life and over the years she has sent me all the books that Educate Empower Kids has produced, and my children love them. My daughter is always pulling them out. I think she likes nonfiction better than fiction, so she’s always like, I want to read Wade’s Story.
Dina Alexander (02:38): She wants to figure out life, not just fantasy, right? I’m glad your kids like them.
Anne (02:48): Please go out and get Dina’s books. My kids like them so much that I’m kind of sick of them. Isn’t that good?
Dina Alexander (02:55): Yes. We all have that as moms, you get this book, you love it, and then after the 10th time you’re like, oh my gosh.
Anne (03:02): That’s how good they are. I’m like, do we really have to read this body image book again every night for four months? Can we just read Little Red Riding Hood or something? And she’s like, no, we need to learn about positive body image. And she’s seven years old.
30 Days of Sex Talks for Kids
Dina Alexander (03:16): She’ll never regret it though. As an adult, she will be able to say to her friends that still all hate their bodies, wait, didn’t your mom talk to you about this? And then be sad for her friends whose moms did not teach them to care for their bodies and love them as they should.
Anne (03:29): Yes. So they’re that good. They’re that good that even when I’m sick of them, my kids still want to read them. So that I think is the biggest endorsement that there is.
Dina Alexander (03:38): That’s hilarious. I love it. Love it. Thank you friend.
Anne (03:42): So Educate and Empower Kids just came out with a new edition of 30 Days of Sex Talks. It has the same topics, but it’s more in depth. Can you talk about the feedback that you received between the first and second edition and why you decided a second edition was important?
You Are The Best Source of Sex Education for Your Kids
Dina Alexander (03:55): The first edition came out 2015. We did a couple of updates over the years, just fixing some of the language, but we find that parents are just still very intimidated by these topics, and so we gave a little more information. Some of it is a little bit more of helping them understand that they are the best source of information.
None of us have to be experts, but that you as the parent love your kids more than anybody else. And so part of it is helping parents realize you can have these conversations, but also just giving a little more background and giving a little more information, even though they are a little bit fuller, let’s say each layout has more information.
That doesn’t mean you have to cover every single piece because I think that’s the great part of our books. You’re going to see some of it where you’re going to go, okay, I’ve covered a couple of those. Oh, but there’s five more pieces that I can add if I would like to just really prepare and empower my child with knowledge.
Helping Parents Overcome Fear of The Sex Talk
Anne (04:54): So talk about the feedback that you get from parents. My situation’s a little different. I do this for a living, right? So we’re talking about it all the time at my house, so my kids are really familiar with it. Say they can talk about masturbation, they ask me questions. Things are very open around here. What’s a typical parent when it comes to how do they talk to their kids about sex?
Dina Alexander (05:13): I would say you’re not typical, but parents are getting there. When we first started this, so people are just terrified and I thought it was like a Christian problem because I’m a Christian and it’s not. My atheist friends, agnostic friends, Muslim friends, Jewish friends, everybody scared to talk about some aspect of sex.
Moms AND Dads Can Have The Sex Talk With Kids
So that was kind of the first eyeopener for us in creating these. We have come a long ways. We started writing these books about 10 years ago, came out in 2015, and even just in that short amount of time, parents in some ways, their eyes are more open to understanding, oh my gosh, my kids are being bombarded by so many messages.
So we have made progress, but I would say a lot of parents, they want to leave this topic to dad and just this topic for mom. Whereas I believe that mom or dad, you can talk about any of these topics appropriately as you build that relationship, as you continue that connection with your kids that it doesn’t matter how intimidating a topic is or just because other parents aren’t talking about it, that we can’t address these.
Parents: The First & Best Source For The Sex Talk
(06:22): It’s really important that we be that first best source. And I think just again with your background, your research, my background, my research, yes, we have spent a lot more time talking and sharing that knowledge with our kids, but that’s why it’s 30 days and 30 topics.
These are big topics, but that we’ve broken it down into tiny pieces because I want every parent to know, you can do this. You’ve got this. You don’t have to be an expert. And you don’t have to be in the field.
You don’t have to have a training in sex education to cover things that they’re learning about on the playground, whether that’s anal sex or oral sex or masturbation or pornography or addiction, social media. All those things are just so interrelated with the sex talks and anybody can do it with just a little bit of study and a lot of caring for their child. You can do this.
If you don’t say anything, they won’t notice” Isn’t a Thing When it Comes to Sex Education
Anne (07:20): Can you talk about the reasons why talking about sex is intimidating to parents? I mean, I’m guessing one of them is maybe if you don’t say anything, maybe they won’t notice.
Right? The classic if you’re changing your clothes and you don’t want someone to see you, let’s say you’re at the beach, you’re changing of your wet swimsuit into regular clothes, and you can do this without anybody seeing you, but you’re not going to yell, don’t look over here, don’t look because the second you say, don’t look, what does everybody do? Everybody turns their head.
And so I think some parents have that same kind of idea that we don’t want to bring attention to this. We don’t want to be like, don’t look, and then everyone will look and then they might get the wrong information.
So there’s that, and then there’s just parents who are just felt uncomfortable in general talking about it, maybe because they don’t talk about it with their friends or their spouse or other people. So can you talk about the different barriers to feeling comfortable that parents might have?
The Generational Guilt & Shame of Talking to Your Kids About Sex
Dina Alexander (09:32): Because all of us have something when you look at say, the 30 Topics we have, or when you think about, okay, what are the things I need to cover in a sex talk? All of us have something that we’re think, oh, yeah, I can talk about that. But we also all have something that we’re like, oh, I don’t want to talk about that.
Often I would say it’s because a lot of us have had either some kind of sexual abuse in our life, some kind of trauma, something deeply embarrassing and or our parents were very uncomfortable.
Maybe they told us nothing, or maybe they were a lot of parents that thought it was healthy to not just talk about sex, but to add a little dose of shame in there. And so that’s really common in that our parents’ generation thought that that was part of the healthy sex talks, just a little bit of guilt.
More Myths About “The Sex Talk”
(10:18): Let me just throw in a little bit of why would I buy the Popsicle if you’re given the whole ice cream truck away for free kind of attitude. And some of us had that. We don’t want to put that on our kids, but we’re not sure how to avoid it because maybe that’s just in our brain.
So there’s those types of backgrounds that people feel uncomfortable, whether it’s about one thing, whether it’s about five things, but also a lot of parents are just afraid, like you said, that they’re going to create an inappropriate curiosity.
We have a lot of parents who think, oh, if I start talking about this, then they’re going to look it all up. Or heaven forbid, if my child knows how pleasurable and amazing sex is, they’re going to go out and start having sex tomorrow. And these are just kind of silly.
Curiosity is a Good Thing
(11:03): Just because our daughters know they have a clitoris and know how lovely and wonderful that part of our body is, it doesn’t mean they’re immediately going to go out next week, find a boyfriend and get laid. And so we have to think about what do I want for my child? I know that I want my kids to have a great sex life when they’re adult.
They’re mentally, physically ready, and so I’m going to teach them the positives of sex. I’m going to teach them how amazing and wonderful. I’m also going to teach them that curiosity is a good thing. That’s how we have survived as humans for thousands of years. We have to be curious.
Now, I’m also going to teach my kids though that there is an appropriate way to use that curiosity and that there are the right places and that mom that I have the answers for them.
Giving Children Correct Information About Sex Will Help Them Make Healthy Decisions
(11:53): I’m also going to let them know that there are a lot of very unhealthy messages that are incorrect, that are harmful online, and that a lot of times their friends, however, well-meaning and lovely, their friends often will have incorrect information.
So I’m not just going to say curiosity is good and leave it at that. I’m going to explain the world around them. I want to give them a good picture of what the world is so that they can make good decisions. So that’s knowing their bodies, understanding how their bodies work, understanding how the opposite gender works, et cetera, so that they can make those good healthy decisions.
Pornography is Not A Healthy Conversation About Sex
Anne (12:32): Around here we talk about how being educated about sex is important, but how pornography is not sex education. It will harm your sex life. It will harm your spouse. And it is abusive to the people in it and it’s abusive to you.
And if you are a child and you are exposed to pornography, you are a victim of sexual abuse, you have been sexually abused by the pornography and that it’s going to be confusing because there might be something interesting about it. Your body might respond to it.
That doesn’t mean that you’re bad, but it also doesn’t mean the thing is good at the same time talking about you don’t really want to be sexually aroused by violence against women. That’s just not going to be good for you in general. So if you are a little bit because the person is or something that you need to consider, this is really bad.
Practical Examples for Talking About Sex
(13:30): I’m not bad. Not the victim who’s being exploited and the porn is bad, but just the situation where my natural instincts are being literally used against me to harm me is such a dangerous situation that I don’t want to touch this with a 10 foot pole.
I mean, my kids, they’re terrified of drugs, and I don’t mean terrified. Terrified in general walking around. What I mean is if someone offered them drugs, they are going to be like, are you kidding me? Never. I’m not doing drugs. That is such a bad idea. And they feel the same way about pornography. Even if they see a hint of it, they’re like, that is not good. I’m not doing that. It’s so dangerous. I don’t even want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.
Then there’s also issues of just interacting. My son’s 14 now and then I have a son who’s 11 and interacting with girls, going swimming with their friends and a situation where they are going to be interacting with women who have bodies.
Why does that woman have a stomach?
(14:32): There’s an amusement park right by our house, and it has a water park there. And so we go there frequently because it’s literally 10 minutes away from my house. So we go there, and one time my oldest son said, Mom, I just feel uncomfortable here because these women are wearing bikinis and I feel a little uncomfortable.
And I said, well, did you know that they’re not wearing it for you? And he’s like, huh. I said, why does that woman have a stomach? He was like, he just kind of looked at me and I said, well, what would happen if she didn’t have a stomach?
(15:05): Her stomach is showing, but so is yours, right? So let’s talk about this. Why does she have a stomach? Is it for you to stare at? And then he was like, it’s so that she can eat.
And I’m like, and why does she have legs? Are her legs for you to stare at? Are they for you or are they for her? And so now my son is like, oh yeah, her legs are not for me. Her stomach’s not for me. She wasn’t created for me. She’s not doing this stuff for me. She’s just doing her own thing. And I can respect her and give her space and look her in the eyes and treat her like a person.
We Need Our Sons to View Women as People
This is a human being in front of me. Just because she’s wearing a swimsuit at the waterpark does not invalidate her as a human being who I need to take seriously, who I need to listen to and respect. And I just think stuff like that is so much more important than like, oh, okay, well if you see a woman in a swimsuit, I bounce and don’t look at her in the face.
And I’m like, what? You’re teaching your kids not to treat other people with respect, which is the opposite of what we want to do. We need our sons to view women as people.
Talking about Sex is Natural & Normal
Dina Alexander (16:21): And it’s just very unrealistic anywhere to think that you’re going to have people stay covered up all the time. I love that you are teaching that with your son because yeah, I understand how you might be uncomfortable. We’re human. We’re going to look at people’s bodies – that’s natural and normal. They’re curious. They want to see, oh, do all boobs look alike?
Again, that’s natural for a lot of kids. So I want to validate. But I also love that you’re teaching because a person is dressed a certain way, whether they’re head to toe covered because of a religious reason, or maybe it is because they’re at a water park, that they are still human and that they’re still deserving of our attention and our concern and our kindness. And like you said, looking him in the eye and focusing on them as a human being.
Healthy Sex is About Mutuality and Love
(17:12): And that is such a great way to combat the effects of pornography because all of our kids are going to see pornography as much as we protect them and train them and listen and learn. They are going to be exposed as adults, as kids, wherever. And we want them to still be able to see humans as people and not as something for me to devour, not as something for me to get off on. It’s just great education and it’s not something to be done once. And so I love that you had that conversation with your son.
Anne (17:47): We’re going to pause the conversation. Dina and I will continue our conversation next week, so stay tuned.
When His Sexual Fantasy Signals Abusive Control
Apr 02, 2024
Should I Divorce My Husband for Emotional Abuse? Can I?
Mar 26, 2024
J.R. is back on The BTR.ORG Podcast sharing her story. She struggled to know if she should divorce her emotionally abusive husband. Then she struggled to know if her her religious beliefs allowed her to divorce him for emotional abuse. She also struggled with whether or not she wanted to divorce him. If you relate to this, hopefully this information and her story will help you.
This episode is Part Two of Anne’s interview with J.R. Part One: My Husband Says I’m the Problem. Is He Right? Part Two: Divorcing Your Emotionally Abusive Husband: What You Can Expect (this episode)
Should I Divorce My Emotionally Abusive Husband?
Here at BTR, your emotional safety is our number one priority. If you’re wondering if you should divorce your emotionally abusive husband, that’s a question only you can answer, but here are some things to consider:
Should any woman be married to a man who emotionally abuses her?
Should any woman be married to a man who genuinely doesn’t care about her well being?
Should any woman be sacrifice her emotional and psychological safety for other perceived values (ie money, child-care, religion, etc)
Can I Divorce My Emotionally Abusive Husband?
Some women wonder if they can get divorced if it’s “just” emotional abuse. Unfortunately, some inaccurate religious scripting or societal scripting has given women the impression that they’re not able to divorce an emotionally abusive husband just “emotional abuse”. Here are some questions to consider.
Does God love you? Would He want you to be abused in anyway: emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, financially, sexually?
Can you go to college or get a job? (Psst: The answer is YES!!)
Is it good for your children to witness a woman think that God doesn’t love her or that she’s incapable of taking care of herself or her children?
Do I Want to Divorce My Emotionally Abusive Husband?
So many women in this situation have a hard time deciding what they want to do because they share children, they remember the good times, they think about the so-called good qualities about their husband (often not realizing it’s just part of his manipulation). Here are some questions to consider when women are wondering if the want to divorce their husband due to his emotional abuse.
If you knew exactly what he was like when you met him, would you marry him now?
Do you want to be married to someone who you would not want to marry?
Do you want your children emulating his behaviors or character?
Anne (00:01): We talked about the beginning of J.R.’s story in last week’s episode. J.R. why do you think it takes victims so long to understand that they’re being abused? All of these years that you went to therapy and you went to help with clergy and they further abused you. Why do you think it takes so long?
J.R. (02:02): That’s a great question.
Anne (02:04): I want to say it’s not the victim’s fault, that’s for sure.
Why is it So Hard to Identify the Emotional Abuse?
J.R. (02:06): Yeah, it’s obviously, it’s not the victim’s fault. I think maybe for some people they might say nobody even tried to tell me or warn me, but I will say I did have family and friends who were concerned about my relationship, but I saw them.
I had such a high view of the marriage relationship because of the spiritual upbringing and because of sort of the twist that my ex put on it through the theological training in school that I just saw all these people as their opposition to my marriage.
It’s a spiritual attack on my relationship. But I will say that my relationship with the church and religion has become very complicated because I do attribute a lot of the way of thinking that kept me for so long in that relationship to spiritual or religious teachings that I think personally I believe are not biblical and don’t actually align with what I believe Jesus teaches.
But when you’re told that from so many sources that you are supposed to be able to trust and people who are supposed to be leading and being guided by the Holy Spirit, it’s really hard to undo some of that indoctrination.
Realizing Your Husband is Emotionally Abusive
Anne (04:05): Yeah, I agree. And also you care. It’s really sad how perpetrators know how to take the things that women really, really care about and weaponize it against them. It’s benefiting the abuser and it’s not benefiting her at all.
And to realize that God loves us, he genuinely thinks we’re delightful and funny and fun and awesome, and he created our talents, and some of us might not have cooking talents, and that’s okay because we have other talents, and when we were created for the good of humanity, including ourselves, we’re part of that.
And so it’s so sad to me when these have all just been subjected to what would benefit him to our expense. It’s so hard to see that. So you find BTR and you realize, whoa, he’s abusing me. You’re listening to the podcast. Can you talk about what steps you start to take at this point?
Attending Couple Therapy With An Emotional Abuser
J.R. (05:20): I think at this point we had already been seeing a therapist together, which I do not recommend. I mean, obviously I didn’t know that I was in an abusive marriage, an abusive relationship, but now hindsight never go to couples therapy with an abusive person.
But we were seeing a couples therapist who actually, I will say even before I found BTR, she feels like this guardian angel sent from heaven because
I think that God moved me all the way across the country to meet this therapist because she started seeing us and when we started talking to her, the pornography thing came up, but it wasn’t the crux of why we were there. But she immediately started talking about betrayal trauma and had him write a therapeutic disclosure.
A Therapist Who Identified the Emotional Abuse
Anne (06:34): Was she a pornography addiction recovery specialist?
J.R. (06:38): I don’t think she was certified, but she herself had walked through this type of betrayal,
Anne (06:50): So she knew kind of enough to do a disclosure, which we don’t recommend here. But not enough to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, we got to stop the couple therapy.
I Became Aware it was Emotional Abuse
J.R. (07:01): And I would say with the disclosure, I don’t think any of this was a great way to go about this. The route that my story went was incredibly painful and I think unnecessarily so because when she had him do the disclosure, I just knew in my heart that he wasn’t going to be honest and told her as much in one of our meetings.
I said, I don’t even want to hear this because I know that it’s going to be a bunch of lies. I think it started to wear him down. It started to poke holes in his facade.
It started to get me thinking, and I think that’s probably how I did find your podcast. I started to become aware of this concept of betrayal trauma. And so searching for resources found BTR, and then I got partial disclosure after partial disclosure. It was very painful.
It was all right around the time that my third child was born, and about a month after my third child was born, things were pretty rocky between us, me and my ex. And one night it just came out of him like a flood. He told me his version of this is the whole truth.
Partial Truths, Trickle Disclosures – Key Tactics of An Emotionally Abusive Husband
(09:59): I like how you said his version, this is a common pattern that they’ll say, this is the whole truth, and they’ll tell a really kind of horrific thing that they’ve done. Sorry, I didn’t mean to laugh.
J.R. (10:11): It’s horrible.
Anne (10:12): And then you think, wow, that has to be everything, because he’s like, I’m getting it all out on the table, and then you find out later it was not because there’s something else he doesn’t want to say. So he tells you his version of this is the whole story?
“That’s the device I use to look at porn.”
J.R. (10:26): Yes, and actually we’re sitting in our living room. He points across the living room at a computer that was actually used for ministry related purposes and specifically with kids’ ministry. So it wasn’t even his own personal computer, but he points at this computer, this laptop, and says, that’s the device that I use to look at porn. So it was never on my radar. No one was monitoring it.
It was never something that I ever would’ve even thought that he was using for lots of reasons. I mean, it didn’t belong to him. And not only did it not belong to him, it belonged to a church and it was being used for kids’ ministry. So it’s a great place to go looking up porn. I think I got up and I think by the next day I had purchased tickets for me and my kids to fly back home to Pennsylvania.
Separating from an Emotionally Abusive Husband
(11:33): And at the time, we were just going to separate. At this point, once again, divorce, it’s not even an option. It’s not on my radar, but I knew I needed space from him. I needed to get away from him. I needed lots of distance for me and my children.
So we actually bought tickets for him, a ticket for him as well. Mine was just a one way because I didn’t know when I would return to Washington. His was both ways so that he could help me get there with the kids. I would’ve been flying with three kids, three and under. So he flew with me and then was going to get right back on the plane and go back to Washington and we were going to separate.
Navigating an Emotionally Abusive Husband Being Manipulative During Separation
(12:23): And long story short, it didn’t take too long into our separation for me to realize that I was never going to go back to Washington. If he wanted our marriage to work and if our marriage was going to work, he would have to come back to Pennsylvania where my support system was so that we could potentially salvage our marriage.
So I told him that and he spent a considerable amount of time negotiating, didn’t want to lose his job at the church out there, didn’t want to lose his position of power and authority, didn’t want people to know the truth, spread some lies about what was really going on between us, made it seem like I was going through postpartum depression, and that’s why I was away.
People from the church were texting me and telling me to use this essential oil and to eat this kind of food and oh, the baby blues are so hard, aren’t they?
“I wasn’t going to be heard unless I had men vouching for me.”
(13:38): And it was a very difficult time. And throughout it all, it was becoming more and more clear to me how bad the situation was, and I was becoming a lot more realistic about the fact that it was not going to change. So we were supposed to be separated for six months and that didn’t happen. I was living with my parents temporarily with my three young kids in a very small house. We went through this whole thing with the church out there that he was working with.
Of course, I had to have men in church leadership speak on my behalf and stand up for me in any way to even be heard. That whole thing was very complicated as well. I feel very grateful for those men and I love them. I feel like they are like brothers to me, but it was very eye-opening to see that I wasn’t going to be heard unless I had men vouching for me.
So when he realized that the church out there actually gave me his stipend and released him from his position, he realized that he had nothing else out there.
Anne (15:12): Good for them. That does not happen very often. So that’s great news.
When It’s All Just Manipulation
J.R. (15:17): Yes. I think once we got over the hump, once they actually heard me and listened to what was going on, I do think they handled it very well. So he came back to Pennsylvania, got a bunch of praise and glory for coming back to his family to make things right, and he was the big hero for coming back. And I was like, you just came back because you didn’t have anything else out there.
You tried so hard to salvage a life that you knew your wife and children were never going to be a part of. And then when that didn’t work, you came back. But he made some steps that I guess kind of looked like progress to me when he moved back here. In hindsight, it was all just manipulation just to get what he wanted, which was for us to be living together again.
“I Moved Back in With My Abusive Husband”
(16:18): So we moved into an apartment together again to try to salvage the marriage. It was way too soon. I had to set boundaries. I had set the things that I needed to see during our separation for me to be able to move towards reconciliation with him. And he didn’t meet any of those. I mean, he bucked against everything, but I so desperately wanted it to work that I still moved back in with him.
We were only living together for about two months, probably a little less. And the thing that finally made me leave him for good unfortunately, was being hospitalized just to clear the air, wasn’t physical abuse from him, but it was a mental breakdown and I was suicidal and committed myself to the ER.
What Happens When An Emotionally Abusive Husband Doesn’t Go Away After Separation?
Anne (17:22): I’m so sorry to hear that. I did want to say that so many women, when they do let him back in the house, things get way worse. Maybe he’ll promise that things will get better and maybe not necessarily physically. He didn’t put you in the hospital by punching you in the face, but mentally you were in such bad shape after six, seven weeks of being with him in your home, in your vicinity, that that’s where you were at. I mean, that’s how bad things got.
I always want to warn women it’s going to get worse. Lundy Bancroft talks about if that happens, then they think they have to assert even more control or they’re going to lose control of you again. So once they get you in their vicinity again, then at the very least the emotional and psychological abuse is going to ramp up.
“Why am I going crazy?”
(18:16): But it might not seem like that to you because it might seem very nice. They might seem kind, and that’s when you really think you’re going crazy because you’re like, he’s not yelling at me, he’s not angry. Why am I going crazy? I’m not sure what his behaviors were, but some women experienced it like that because he’s being great. He’s doing the dishes and he is doing the stuff.
And in my ex’s situation, he was reading scriptures every night and initiating family prayer and that kind of thing. And I thought, I’m genuinely going crazy. What is happening? I always felt like my sanity was hanging by a thread, and I was like, is that thread still there? So as you’re hospitalized, is that your indication to you about how bad it is?
Processing the Self-Blame Helped J.R. Leave Her Emotionally Abusive Husband
J.R. (19:00): Yeah, once again, grew up in a very religious home. So most of the time felt like, oh, well, I just need to pray more, or I just need to read my Bible more.
And that just wasn’t doing it, obviously, because my mental health matters and I needed more than that, but I wanted so badly to make it work, not so much because I loved him, but because we had children, and obviously this wasn’t the case, but I felt like if I left him that I caused our children to be in this quote broken home, which I hate that term, but that’s what it is, what people would see it as.
So I think being hospitalized, having that breakdown, realizing that I didn’t want to live it, took that for me to say, well, if I’m not around for my kids, that’s not what’s best for them either.
Anne: I wrote The BTR.ORG Meditation Workshop for women who are going through this type of absolute mental trauma – because there’s a point where you’ve done as much as you can. You just can’t do anymore. The Meditations help women heal without any effort. Women don’t have to do more, they can just relax and listen and it will heal them.
“If you stay with him, you’re never going to get better.”
J.R. (20:12): Yeah, I started to think if staying in this maddening relationship is abusive, relationship is what’s best for my children, they might not have a mom by the end of it. I remember being at my sister’s house after being hospitalized. My sister was really amazing.
She took a week off of work just to be there for me and my children, whatever I needed. And I remember being at her house. She cared for all the kids, hers and mine. They were just going in and out of the bath. There was eight of them, so just one after the other. And I just remember her saying, J.R., if you stay with him, you’re never going to get better.
She was talking about my mental health and my depression and how I felt, and it seems like such a simple statement, but I needed to hear it in that moment. And it was like, yeah, if I want to get better for, and at the time, it wasn’t even for my own sake, it was for my children’s sake. So if I want to get better for the sake of my children, I cannot be with this man. That’s the bottom line. That’s when I filed for divorce and felt really confident about that decision.
What Would J.R. Say to Her Younger Self?
Anne (21:42): So JR and I are actually going to talk more about the divorce part and then what happened after and what she’s been dealing with since at a later time. But to conclude now, J.R., if you could go back in time and talk to your younger self, what would you tell her?
J.R. (22:03): I would tell myself that you are so smart. You are so worthy, you deserve better. And I would tell her, trust your instincts. Just trust yourself. That’s the biggest piece I’m still fighting with. Honestly. Just trust yourself.
Re-Establishing Trust With Self After Leaving Your Emotionally Abusive Husband
Anne (22:28): It’s hard to reestablish that after I would say his and society sometimes, or a misogynistic church. They’re systematic, intentional dismantling of that, trying to dismantle it for you so that you wouldn’t trust yourself. Being up against that is really hard.
And that’s why I have people like you J.R., on the podcast to talk about it because it is, I think, so much more systematic than people realize. There’s so many places that try and talk us out of it, and if you follow it, they call you crazy or she’s too much or she’s not enough, or all the things that really, they want to trap us.
And so being able to see that for what it is is so difficult. So thank you so much for sharing your story so far. I can’t wait to hear the rest of it. Listeners, stay tuned because it won’t actually be for a couple of months. Sometimes we do it like the next episode, but in this case, we’re going to wait a couple months and then revisit. So thank you so much for sharing this part of your story, and I cannot wait to hear the rest later. Thank you.
J.R. (23:41): Thanks, Anne.
My Husband Says I’m the Problem. Is He Right?
Mar 19, 2024
J.R. spent nearly a decade “working on herself”, trying to be a better wife to improve her marriage. She didn’t know she needed to learn about emotional and psychological abuse to realize that she wasn’t the problem. If you’re husband says your the problem, there may be something else going on.
Many victims may blame themselves for the emotional and psychological abuse because that’s what the abuser wants them to think. Convincing her that she’s the problem is part of the psychological abuse.
You’re Not The Problem (His Emotional Abuse is the Problem)
You are experiencing emotional and psychological abuse and/or sexual coercion if your partner:
Uses gaslighting to contort your perception of reality
Anne (00:01): Welcome to Betrayal Trauma Recovery. This is Anne.
Today we have a member of our community. We’re going to call her J.R. She is a 29-year-old mother of four. She spent almost a decade of her life in a psychologically abusive relationship. Welcome, J.R.
J.R. (01:41): Thank you, Anne. I’m so happy to have this opportunity.
Anne (01:45): You said that you attribute the beginning of the end of your abusive relationship to BTR. Do you want to start kind of there and then we’ll start at the beginning.
When J.R. Discovered The BTR.ORG Podcast, She Still Thought She Was The Problem
J.R. (01:57): In 2020, I discovered The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast. To be honest with you, I was trying to rack my brain to figure out how I found the podcast, and I really can’t remember. I feel like it’s a God thing for me. I was going through some things with my ex-husband. I’d known about his pornography use throughout our relationship. We had been through a lot at that point regarding his addiction, but I never would’ve used the term abuse. I would not have been able to classify it as emotional abuse because I didn’t have the terminology.
I just remember actually at that time, we were living in Washington state and I was driving through this gorgeous Oregon countryside mountains, just really beautiful landscape on my way home from dropping a friend off at the airport, and I was listening to just episode after episode of the BTR podcast, and I just remember this feeling of, well, to be honest, it was dread.
Identifying Gaslighting & Emotional Abuse
(03:19): It was like, oh my gosh, this is me. And it was the first time I was hearing anyone really describe what I was going through. I think in the past I had seen myself as the villain because what I didn’t know at the time was my trauma response was very explosive, very intense.
So I always felt like the villain in certain situations with my ex. But hearing some of the women talk on the BTR podcast and just hearing you, Anne, talk about safety and gaslighting and emotional abuse, it was becoming clear to me that that was my situation.
Simultaneous Relief & Dread When You Realize You’re Not The Problem
Anne (04:04): Well, I’m so glad that listening to the podcast helped you. I’m guessing simultaneously relieved that someone could describe what you were going through and then also, wait a minute, it’s this bad. Can you talk about that?
J.R. (04:21): I had moved across the country with this man and our two children, pregnant with our third child. I had just dropped off the last of, we had some visitors all right in a row because I had just given birth to my third child.
We had some visitors. I had just dropped off the last of the visitors and I was driving back to my home with this man. So yes, there was the relief in like, oh my goodness, I’m not alone. And I finally feel understood. I finally feel seen.
But the dread was I am driving back to this place and I don’t know what I’m going to do. My children were there. I had no idea what I was going to do. So there was a sense of dread, and I’m driving right back into this situation.
When Physical Battering Isn’t Present, So You Figure You’re The Problem
I hear a lot of the women on the podcast talk about their husband’s anger and whether it’s verbal assault or even physical.
(05:22): But with my ex, I didn’t really see a lot of those signs. I didn’t see anger. I didn’t see any sort of violence or undertones of being agitated. It was so covert because he just immediately from the beginning of the relationship began gaslighting me and creating this alternate reality for me.
I just believed him right away. And I feel like maybe he didn’t need to go to another tactic as far as being more aggressive, or maybe that’s just not his flavor of abuse. I’m not really sure why, but I didn’t see him as an angry person. I just thought I was the problem.
“I knew he was lying to me, but I could never prove it.”
We would get into these fights, but he wasn’t actually fighting back. It was just kind of me basically fighting with a wall because I knew that there was something going on between us. I knew he was lying to me, but I could never prove it.
And so he just kind of capitalized on that and made me believe I was crazy. And so actually from the very beginning of our relationship, I started seeking therapy and have gone to multiple therapists on and off over the past decade or so, most of that being me, looking for what’s wrong with me, how do I change me to make this work?
“He took my honesty, and used it to his advantage.”
Anne (07:07): In terms of how you were viewing it at the time, you would define his behavior as problem solving. He seemed like he was engaging and that he was talking to me and that he was reasonable and that I just had some serious problems that I needed to work through. He had manipulated you to the point of that, is that what I’m hearing?
J.R. (07:29): Yes. I think that’s really accurate. And actually even where you say manipulating, that stirred something in me to remember when we first started dating, I have a very keen self-awareness, and I told him flat out, I’ve struggled with jealousy in the past and it is something that I am really trying to work on and grow in and move through, but I just want to be upfront with that.
That is a struggle of mine. And so I think right there, he took my honesty and used that to his advantage.
Abusers Weaponize Your Vulnerability To Make You Believe You’re the Problem
Anne (08:07): So in that way, he weaponized your vulnerability against you, but you were not aware of this at the time?
J.R. (08:15): Right. I had no clue honestly, for so much of our relationship, because of a lot of my spiritual background and upbringing. I saw him as this tool in my life that God was using to bring about sanctification in me. So I just really was like, okay, this person is a mirror pointing out the things in me that need to change, the ways I need to grow. And I was thankful for that.
Identifying Spiritual Abuse
Anne (08:45): Spiritual abuse. Was he using spiritual abuse or was he quoting scripture or saying God wants you to change or anything like that? Or was that just how you were sort of interpreting in the moment?
J.R. (08:56): I think it was mostly coming from my own values and convictions. What they taught me. I don’t know that he was really explicit about it, but I think he definitely capitalized on that. And he was a church leader. He was on staff at our church.
And so really the spiritual abuse, I think it did come from him, but it sort of, I would say trickled down from our pastor who he was on staff with. It felt like the perfect cocktail that just worked in his favor against me to keep me right where he wanted me.
J.R.’s Thoughts on Therapy
Anne (09:43): So because you spent so many years in therapy thinking that it was you that had the problem, rather than realizing what was going on, what are your thoughts about all that time that you spent in therapy?
J.R. (09:56): I don’t regret it. I think I’ve been able to do a lot of personal work on myself that has really made me a better mother, a better friend, just a better person in general. So I don’t regret it.
But I met my ex in 2011 and 2012 is when I started in therapy and when I started I would’ve said I would not talk to any therapist who wasn’t Christian based and had this a religious specifically Christian background. And that was something that was very important to me.
And now when I look for a coach or a therapist or counselor or someone even that I’m just going to go to confide in or to get advice from, I’m very wary of Christians. Which is really sad because I still have a very firm faith in my spiritual walk and my spiritual journey is very important to me. And so I lost a lot of trust in the church community and in Christians who are in positions of influence because I saw so many that could have helped me.
And I felt like in a lot of ways there were key players throughout my story that not only didn’t help me get to safety, but actually very firmly rooted me deeper into the abusive relationship I was in.
When Clergy & Therapists Enable Emotional Abuse
(13:08): Therapists only know what you tell them, right? And so if you go in and you’re talking about your jealousy, for example, or things that you’ve sort of integrated into you, maybe things that aren’t even true that you’ve integrated that the abuser has told you they’re only going to go with you there, they’re not going to say,
Hey, wait, stop, who told you that? Why are you thinking this? Is it true? They’re just going to go where you go.
And so an abuse victim can end up not ever identifying the abuse even after going to therapy. And then similarly with the church, they don’t identify the abuse. In fact, they add this layer of spiritual abuse sometimes of have you prayed hard enough or do you have enough faith or have you submitted, were you in the type of Christian Church that wanted you to submit to your husband? Was that a thing with your faith?
Submission to Your Husband – Does that Make Him Right
J.R. (14:02): Growing up? Not so much. But when I first got married to my ex, so we dated for about four years, and then we got married right before he graduated from college, and he graduated from a very reformed evangelical Christian college, and he got sort of inundated with this certain type of theology and doctrines and that he sort of fed all of that to me. And I was just so excited and passionate about Jesus that I wanted to do what I felt like I wanted to find.
Well, what is God’s will and if that’s God’s will, then I’m going to do it. And that kind of led me as an adult. I kind of flipped 180 from what I grew up being taught.
So I grew up around very strong women, women who were very, very opinionated, very loud, and then I kind of flipped over to, oh, the only good type of Christian woman is a submissive one. I need a quiet spirit, I need to be shy. Maybenot shy, but timid. I need to be meek. All of these things.
And I really struggled with that because it didn’t resonate with who I felt like I was, who I felt like God made me to be, but I just latched on and believed that that was my role in life and that I just wasn’t very good at it.
“You’re so good at being you. We’re so good at being ourselves.”
Anne Blythe, Founder of BTR.ORG
Anne (15:46): That breaks my heart because you’re so good at being you. We’re so good at being ourselves, and that’s who God made us to be. I think. So it breaks my heart when women are trying to contort themselves in this misogynistic view of who they are, that because they’re being spiritually abused, they want to do God’s will because they love God. What gets lost in that is God loves us, God loves you, and he created you for you not to be subservient to someone else.
And it really gets lost when that spiritual abuse comes into play. So you’ve talked about how you went to therapy. You’ve talked about how you really were manipulated to altering the way that you viewed yourself and religion to try to survive this situation thinking because he told you this, that it would make things better.
The Moment You Realize You’re NOT The Problem
J.R. (16:52): I guess I would say it wasn’t until 2020 that I finally realized it didn’t matter what I did. It wasn’t going to change. It wasn’t going to quote unquote work because he was the problem and I was believing for so long that I was the problem. So really, I spent so many years and adding child after child into this mess of just banging my head against the wall.
And I remember when I was a stay-at-home mom for the beginning of my children’s lives, and I remember just saying things to him, it’s hard to do all of the things in a day that you want to get done in the house, make the meal, keep the house clean, do this and that with the kids and all this stuff.
And so I said, I can’t do it all, but what is one thing that would mean a lot to you that when you come home from work, it’s like, oh, I’m so thankful that this thing is done.
The Belief That “Divorce is Not an Option”
(18:05): And I would ask him things like that because I wanted it to work, and I was convinced that I was the problem. I think I knew it wasn’t working, but it was so ingrained in me that divorce is wrong. Divorce is not an option. That I was like, well, it’s got to work. So if it’s not working, I’m not doing the right thing or I’m not trying hard enough because if I put it on him, then I can’t control it anymore.
Then I feel hopeless. Well, if it’s up to him and he’s not willing to change, then I’m just stuck in this horrible marriage forever. It made more sense to me to just take it upon myself because at least then I had some sense of control.
When You Realize That ABUSE Is The Problem, Not You
Anne (18:55): I think a lot of women feel like that because for me, realizing I was a victim and saying I am a victim of abuse was simultaneously liberating. I can’t do anything about it.
And then also horrifying. I can’t do anything about it at the same time, and it is horrifying to realize that this situation, there’s nothing that you could do to improve him.
You can improve your own life and your own situation once you know that you’re a victim of abuse, but you cannot improve your quote marriage or the situation with your family, and that’s devastating to realize because then what do you do?
That’s the next step. During this time, did you ever discover porn use? Infidelity? Can you talk about that for a little bit?
Is His Pornography Use the Problem?
J.R. (19:50): At some point in 2012, I found pornography on his phone, and I can remember it so clearly. I was sitting in his car and he had run back into the house that he was living at at the time to grab something. He came back out to the car and I just was sitting there staring and showed it to him. Just didn’t even say anything.
I just showed it to him and he just sitting there just looked me in the eyes and denied it, and it took me aback. Looking back now, it’s like, now I’m not going to lie, Anne.
It’s really hard not to be very hard on myself and almost mad at myself because right then and there, I knew what was in front of my face. I saw it with my own eyes, and this man is sitting there just lying through his teeth about something that it’s like, why would you even lie about that?
(20:55): I have it right in front of me. He kind of pushed back for a little bit, but eventually I’m just like, well, I don’t really care what you say. I’m seeing it in front of my face, so I don’t know why you’re trying to pretend this isn’t what it is.
So that was the first time, but I didn’t have the knowledge, the understanding of what this really was and how it really worked to think anything more than, obviously I was crushed. I was devastated, but I just thought, okay, I guess this is just maybe a part of me thought this was just going to be everybody.
The Discrepancy of Abusive Men and Their Public Personas
Anne (21:33): Did you find that finding porn, but then his behavior at church and the persona that he portrayed at church, what did you think about that discrepancy?
J.R. (21:46): So at the time, he wasn’t in any kind of church leadership. He was still in college. He went to a Bible college. It was almost trendy. It’s for the guys to talk about accountability and –
Anne (22:06): his “struggle” with porn?
J.R. (22:08): – if I hear the word –
Anne (22:10): “struggle”
J.R. (22:11): YES!! ARG!!!
Pretending It’s Not A Problem to Survive
J.R. (22:13): Yes, I didn’t like it, but I just was like, well, this, that’s what it is. It’s a struggle and he’s trying and you don’t know what you don’t know. I found that. And throughout our dating relationship and then our engagement, I would say it would go months at a time where I wouldn’t find anything.
He wouldn’t say anything, but then it would always be me discovering something on his phone.
So that would happen. And whenever that would happen, I would get all upset and we’d have this big blowout and I would just decide, well, he’s not going to be honest with me about this, so I need to let it go and stop thinking about it because I’m going to drive myself crazy.
Because I didn’t see getting out of the relationship as an option. I didn’t know about setting boundaries. I didn’t know how to reach out for help. So I just thought, well, I guess I just have to pretend things are fine in order to just survive.
Having to “just survive?” That’s The Problem.
Anne (23:29): Well, and that’s why some people call abuse victims survivors is because you’re surviving and everything that you do in this scenario is to survive. And so that’s where the term surviving comes from. I’ve always not liked that term. It feels like you survived something that you didn’t. You’re still in the middle of, right. I’m like, I haven’t survived anything yet. I’m still on the boat and the boat is still sinking. I don’t feel like I’ve survived. But that is why some people use that. I like the term victim. It’s just pretty straightforward. But other people don’t like that because they feel like it’s maybe unempowering, but I feel like it’s very empowering.
Once you realize no one’s coming to save me. We’ve got to get myself to safety because this is not going to turn out well unless I start making my way to safety. J.R. and I are going to pause the conversation here, but stay tuned. We will continue it next week.
Where Can I Find Resources to Stop Human Trafficking?
Mar 12, 2024
The global severity of human trafficking and sexual exploitation is clear. Melea Stephens is on The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast to explain what you can do to stop human trafficking and sexual exploitation.
Here at BTR.ORG, we deeply appreciate the National Center on Sexual Exploitation (NCOSE) and the important work they do. Learn more about NCOSE here.
Help Stop Human Trafficking & Sexual Exploitation Today
BTR.ORG Stands with NCOSE in Fighting Against Human Trafficking & Sexual Exploitation
At BTR, we know how deeply personal and painful the realities of the sex trafficking industry can be. When a spouse secretly uses pornography, solicits a sexually exploited person, or sexually assaults or coerces a partner, the results are devastating.
I have Melea Stephens on today’s episode. She is on the National Center for Sexual Exploitation, also known as NCOSE board. They do amazing work on sex trafficking. So if you’re really interested in being involved, NCOSE is the place to get real information about how to help with that. Melea got involved with NCOSE because for over 23 years she has been a practicing therapist and she has seen young children be addicted to pornography. She wanted to help make sure that we protect kids.
Melea lives in Alabama, so she’s currently working on passing a bill in her state. We’ll also talk about how you can get involved in helping out in the location where you are. So stay tuned for that. Can you tell us about what’s going on in Alabama right now?
What is a “Filter Bill” and Can it Stop Human Trafficking?
Melea Stephens (02:16): Thank you for having me. Last legislative session here in Alabama, we worked to pass what we essentially would call a filter bill. It’s a bill that would require tablets and smartphones to have the filters defaulted on. One of the names that it’s had was the default to safety bill. We’ve had different names at different points. Utah passed a similar bill a few years ago. We have wanted to pass it in Alabama and several other states are interested in introducing it as well.
One reason we wanted to promote this bill is that we know 47% of young children have their first unwanted early exposure to pornography on smartphones and tablets, and it’s just a common sense protection to have preexisting filters that are already on smartphones and tablets defaulted on versus putting the burden on caregivers and parents to try to go through 30 some odd steps on many devices to try to figure out how to activate existing content filters.
Helping Trafficking Victims is Something We Can All Do
(03:17): We have Supreme Court precedent that says that it is preferable for protections to come at the filter level on devices. So we know the courts would uphold this bill. We’re pretty confident that it would be very enforceable. All it is simply doing is asking that three major companies, which would be Amazon with the Kindle, the Apple products, and Google with their products that have smartphones and tablets that a software update would happen, which is a very simple fix.
We’ve talked to software experts who work closely with device manufacturers and they say this would happen in a matter of hours. That they would just do a very simple update that would allow for phones that are activated in Alabama to have the default on instead of off with the content filter so that parents or caregivers don’t have that responsibility of trying to figure that out.
Broad-based Protections for Young Children
(04:16): And it automatically has broad-based protections for young children so that they’re less likely to stumble across pornography at an early age. And people would say, well, you can get around that. Kids are going to find ways to get around it. Obviously kids can begin to try to figure this out, but when we’re talking about very young children who aren’t even thinking about pornography that stumble upon this content and it is very traumatic to them to not understand what they’re looking at and the way it affects their brain and then how it affects their behavior and their development. This gives them extra years of innocence and safety and protection.
“Anytime a child is exposed to pornography, that’s sexual abuse of that child.”
Anne Blythe – BTR.ORG
And I had the honor of speaking to different parent groups. I have spoken to schools and churches that are in some of the areas where kids really don’t have involved parents. Those children, child on child harmful sexual behavior is just rampant in those communities because children are just handed devices. No one’s looking out for them. Very early on they can become addicted to pornography. They act out what they see because that’s what children do.
Fight Human Trafficking to Stop the Cycle of Abuse & Trauma
(05:23): They copy what they see, and then there’s a cycle of abuse happening and a cycle of trauma. So I especially think about those children. When I think about this bill, we’ve been excited. There was a great response last session. We had 67 bipartisan co-sponsors in the house, and it passed through committee with bipartisan support. We got to the Senate, it passed through committee with bipartisan support. It was poised to be passed through the Senate and become a law for the governor simply to sign.
But we had one person in the Senate who refused to allow it on the calendar because it really only takes one or two people that set the calendar and they blocked it because there was a lot of opposition that we had to fight along the way. And that’s been true in every other state. There’s been opposition from big tech and telecommunications companies have shown up at all of our hearings with their lobbyists as well.
Why Does Big Tech Fight Against Protecting Children?
(06:25): Even though our bill has zero to do with companies like AT&T or Verizon, they’re not held liable and it’s explicitly stated in our bill, but they would show up because unfortunately, big tech and telecommunications companies and the pornography industry will sometimes band together to fight common sense protections for kids. It’s really sad, but that’s one of the things we dealt with and unfortunately this gentleman that blocked it, we assume that there was pressure from lobbyists and one company in particular. So we’re going to do it again this session, and I’m grateful.
I don’t feel discouraged. I’m very encouraged because the draft version we have this session is even better. I think has even more protections built in, and we have major support across the state. So I’m excited about getting the ball rolling again this session.
Money, Power, & a Resistance to Any Form of Regulation
Anne (07:19): What’s the real reason they don’t want to do it? Because they’ll say all kinds of reasons that aren’t really real. What do you think their legit reason is? Is it just simply money?
Melea Stephens (07:28): Money is a big factor. We know that historically, if you look it up, Google, AT&T, or Verizon, do they get back channel profits from pornography? They do and they have. There would be potentially a loss of revenue that way. But then you have big tech. Big tech hates regulations. They do not want to be restricted in any way, shape or form.
They don’t want to give up an inch of their authority to determine what they do when they do it. So I think money, power and a resistance to any form of regulation, which this really is to me, it’s like a safety feature on a car or something requiring that they have proper antilock brakes on a car, something that’s very reasonable. And in this case, it’s just a simple software update. All the technology is there.
Can the Government Stop Unwanted Pornography Exposure?
Anne (08:19): I hope this does not sound too political, but I’m a patriot in saying I’m really grateful for all of the government services that we have. We have roads, we have a military, we have things in place to keep us safe, and that’s only something that the government can do because the government is all of us.
So I am so grateful that we have these opportunities that we can pass things to protect us because no company is going to do that for us. We need to do that through the government because nobody’s going to willingly do that. Although some companies have willingly done some of the things right. I’ve seen NCOSE has worked well with some companies, so that has been exciting.
A “Very Tooth and Nail Fight” to Help Victims
Melea Stephens (09:06): Absolutely. Yeah. There’s opportunity. Companies respond to positive communication and sometimes negative pressure. We have what’s called the Dirty Dozen list where we name and shame the main promoters of sexual exploitation. We have had tremendous success because once things are brought to light, it’s been refreshing that several companies have changed their corporate policies to better protect citizens, to protect them from sex trafficking or from unwanted exposure to pornography.
This has been a very tooth and nail fight all along the way, the opposition will say, well, you should just be fighting the pornography instead of asking the manufacturers to do this at the device level, which I agree. And we are. The National Center on Sexual Exploitation along with many of our allies are constantly fighting the pornography industry to make changes there. But here’s the truth about that is it goes back to our government. I wish our government was stepping up in this issue because the laws on the books on a federal level would prohibit the production and distribution of hardcore pornography, which is the majority of pornography that’s on the internet.
The Truth about Federal Obscenity Laws
(10:23): And it also, our laws prohibit the distribution of all pornography, be it softcore or hardcore from being on our internet. But our Department of Justice for many years now has not been enforcing federal obscenity laws. So that leaves us having to take this gulliver approach to tackling this issue of illegal pornography through corporate strategies, through legislation, through lawsuits. We have lawsuits against PornHub that we’re winning right now. We’re gutting the mind geek and the PornHub industry because of lawsuits that we have with survivors.
So we’re having to go at every different angle, but this is one of the most practical, simplistic things we can do to protect children. And as I’ve talked to families across the state of Alabama, they really, really want to see this passed, and they’re very upset that it was blocked last session. Whether they’re democrat, republican, it doesn’t matter. I think the main part of this is that there’s opposition from big tech, the pornography industry and telecommunications companies, and to everyday citizens that want to make a difference and make an impact when it comes to fighting sex trafficking and sexual exploitation in general.
Going Upstream to Fight Human Trafficking & Sexual Exploitation
(11:38): Yes, at NCOSE, we understand that you’ve got to go upstream. I don’t know if you’ve heard the metaphor or the analogy of you’re seeing people floating down the river that are drowning and you rush in to try to pull out as many as you can, and you’re struggling to get as many to safety as you can, and you do this for a long time until you’re exhausted, but you’re not able to get to everyone.
And so eventually you come to this idea of like, I’ve got to go upstream and figure out who’s throwing people in the river. And so you go upstream and you find out there’s someone that’s shoving all these people into the river, and in this case, that’s the pornography industry because today’s mainstream pornography, as you know, is highly addictive and changes the way that they operate. It changes their belief system.
Fighting Human Trafficking at the Root Level
(12:25): It gives them permission, giving beliefs about rape and sex buying and things of that nature. People become objects. So we’re raising up a generation of kids to have a different type of sexual appetite, and it’s creating a world of harm.
So we fight things at that root level, and we know that if we don’t address that issue in addition to sex trafficking, we’ll be just putting out flames forever. If we did not have rampant hardcore pornography, if it was restricted to just the adult bookstores like you had back in the eighties with soft core porn, as bad as that was, if we just lived back in that world, that’s what the laws on the books say our world should look like when it comes to pornography in the United States.
Striving for “A Shift in Cultural Expectations”
There should be nothing on the internet, nothing on cable, satellite tv, all that stuff. And if we just live like that and our children were able to flourish freely without feeling like they’re going to be exposed to pornography around every corner, can you imagine how different our world would be if they were able to go through their developmental years without that atmosphere?
So that’s what we strive for is a shift in cultural expectations. But then there are also very practical things we’re doing to interrupt the cycles of things that are feeding sex trafficking. So we’d love for them to come and look at our website.
The Truth About Sexual Exploitation & Human Trafficking
Anne (14:07): I really recommend NCOSE because so many people are talking about sex trafficking these days. And I have a really interesting story that is super alarming. So one of my friends was on an airplane and she was sitting next to a man and they started talking about politics a little bit and he said, I’m voting for this person because of his record on sex trafficking because he is going to protect the children.
And her ears perked up. And she was like, oh, really? Tell me more about this. And he said, yeah, there’s just these people who are stealing these kids and we’ve got to stop it. Then she said, well, what do you do for a living? And guess what he did for a living? What? He owned a strip club.
Melea Stephens (14:52): Oh my gosh. You’re kidding. No.
Use NCOSE Resources to Work Toward Ending Sexual Exploitation & Human Trafficking
Anne (14:55): Everyone wants to end sex trafficking. Everyone wants to end pornography. I mean, everyone that listens to this podcast. Sure.
Melea Stephens (15:04): Yeah.
Anne (15:05): So here’s a man who is an actual literal sex trafficker. He owns a strip club, and he’s talking about this nameless, faceless group of people who’s kidnapping kids when we know who they are, it’s PornHub. We know who the pornographers are. It’s very obvious. Getting involved with NCOSE is so awesome because it makes it very clear what’s happening so that you can say, okay, this particular senator, they’re the ones blocking this bill so we can write to that particular senator and we can make sure that this bill gets passed.
So I love that NCOSE clears out all the confusion because at least this man who owned the strip club, he was loving saying, oh yeah, we got to stop sex trafficking as a way to distract from the fact that he was a sex trafficker.
Finding a Anti-Trafficking Organization You Can Trust
Melea Stephens (15:55): Talk about denial and hypocrisy or else just a really good marketing scheme there.
Anne (16:01): That is scary these days. So I love that. NCOSE is a very reputable organization that has been around a long time.
Melea Stephens (16:08): They really do their research, and they are very careful about the details before they speak out. That’s one reason I’m always hesitant when I’m a spokeswoman. I want to make sure I do my best to present the facts accurately because they have such a high standard when it comes to what they share and what they do. They’re very intent, and I respect that about them, and they will correct themselves if there is something that they find out is inaccurate, but they do things with a lot of integrity and they get a lot done with a very small budget in a small group of people.
Join the NCOSE community to Feel the Momentum & Fight Human Trafficking
Anne (16:43): Well, that’s the other thing that I love about NCOSE, because so many people when they talk to me about it, they’ll be like, nobody’s doing anything right? And I’m like, well, every year NCOSE with their dirty dozen list, they make progress. It’s so amazing to be a part of that because you can feel the momentum.
And as much as pornography is this overarching exploitative, abusive, systemic problem that is affecting every single woman that listens to this podcast and so many families all over the world, and it’s horrific, it needs to be stopped. It’s an abuse issue, and there are people who do not want to stop it, and they want people to get distracted.
I also think that the pornographers and the exploiters, I think they don’t want people to know that progress is being made. I think they want people to think that it’s a lost cause. So either it’s fine and what’s your problem? We should just let this go. Or the alternative, which is there’s nothing you can do.
What the Human Trafficking Industry Doesn’t Want YOU to Know
Melea Stephens (19:14): They want it to seem that it’s a right and it’s an entitlement first and foremost. They don’t want people to know that it’s illegal. Pornography is illegal. They want people to feel that this is a free speech issue when it’s not protected speech, but you would think that’s the case given everything that they do. And they have all these organizations that are under misleading names, such as this Free Speech Coalition, various names that make it sound like they’re anti exploitation as well.
They have some groups that sound like, but they’re actually the pornography industry putting up a false front to try to get in and sound like they’re being benevolent and they’re actually doing everything they can to undermine decency in society.
So you have to really do your homework and dig deep when it comes to these issues, just like in our state and in other states that this filter bill was being presented, several groups came in acting like they were pro-family pro children presenting Trojan horse bills that sounded anti pornography and people fell for it. It’s a very sneaky opponent. Thankfully, the law is on our side, science is on our side, and as we educate the public about the harms of pornography to the brain and relationships in society, as we educate the public about what the law actually says, they’re empowered to push back against this evil industry.
NCOSE is the Place to Get YOUR Information About Human Trafficking
Anne (20:49): So look over here so that you don’t actually accidentally support a sex trafficker or a pornographer. NCOSE is the place to get your information from. They’re trustworthy. They’ve been around for so long, and they really do their homework, and they know who the specific people are. They talk about specific things that are happening that we know about that are actionable, and that’s what makes us so effective.
Melea Stephens (21:32): Well, thank you so much. Enjoyed my time with you.
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3 Attacks to Anticipate When Leaving Abuse
Aug 30, 2022
Are you just about ready to leave the abuser? Read up on 3 common attacks abusers employ to keep up the power-over dynamic.
What Consent Actually Looks Like
Aug 23, 2022
Let's talk about what consent IS, and what consent is NOT. Elizabeth is on the podcast sharing her story publicly for the very first time.
The Truth About Divorce
Aug 16, 2022
Organizations like Focus on the Family want you to believe that divorce is going to ruin everything. Let's learn the truth about divorce.
Busting 3 Divorce Myths Now
Aug 09, 2022
Three pervasive divorce myths are harming victims. Let's bust those myths with Gretchen Baskerville, author of Life-Saving Divorce.
You Deserve Safety. Now.
Aug 02, 2022
Identifying abuse is difficult for victims - seeking safety is the next step and BTR.ORG is here for you as you begin your journey to healing.
Has Your Church Harmed You?
Jul 26, 2022
Have you sought help from clergy only to be blamed or counseled to stay in an abusive situation? You are not alone. Learn more here.
Here’s The Truth About Couple’s Therapy
Jul 19, 2022
If you're considering couple's therapy as a way to save your marriage, then this is for you. Couple's therapy is notoriously harmful in an abuse scenario.
Live In Reality (How To Heal)
Jul 12, 2022
Is healing from betrayal and abuse even possible? Yes! Andrea Hipps is back on the BTR podcast sharing how living in reality is key.
Your New Life Post-Divorce
Jul 05, 2022
Divorce can feel daunting, but Andrea Hipps brings a fresh perspective - your new life is waiting for you! Andrea Hipps and Anne on the BTR Podcast.
3 Ways They Blame Abuse Victims
Jun 28, 2022
Kate is back on the BTR podcast discussing victim blaming modalities with Anne. 3 Ways they blame abuse victims, including Stockholm syndrome & codependency.
The Ways They Victim Blame You
Jun 21, 2022
Kate and Anne are on the podcast discussing victim blaming modalities. Take a deep dive with them into the ways abusers & enablers victim blame you.
Shame Didn’t Make Him Do It
Jun 14, 2022
He may blame his porn use and other abusive behaviors on "shame", but Kate and Anne break it down on the BTR podcast. Shame didn't make him do it.
The Sex Addiction Myth Exposed
Jun 07, 2022
Kate and Anne take a deep dive into the myth of sex addiction - and explain why every victim needs to understand the truth about the sex addiction model.
3 Common Triggers For Victims
May 31, 2022
Too many victims experience horrible triggers when friends, families, and others say insensitive, harmful, and/or abusive things. Kate and Anne on the podcast.
This Is Why They Say We’re Crazy
May 24, 2022
Calling women crazy is keeping abusive men in power. It's been working for centuries and it's still working now. Kate Moore is on the BTR podcast.
Men Need to Stop Calling Us Crazy
May 17, 2022
When men call women crazy, there are serious ramifications. Kate Moore is on the BTR podcast sharing Elizabeth Packard's story.
3 Ways Narcissists Groom Victims
May 10, 2022
Narcissistic abusers will do whatever they can develop and maintain a power-over dynamic. Learn the 3 ways that narcissistic abusers groom victims.
What Are BTR Group Sessions?
May 03, 2022
Many victims spend years, even decades, struggling to identify the abuse in their relationships. BTR Group Sessions can help you on your journey to healing.
How To Set Boundaries Around Sex
Apr 26, 2022
Abusers condition victims to believe that setting sexual boundaries is selfish -but you deserve sexual and emotional safety. Sheila Gregoire on the BTR podcast.
How To Make Sex Great For You!
Apr 19, 2022
Betrayal and abuse can make sex traumatizing. But great sex doesn't have to be permanently off the table. Sheila Gregoire is back on the BTR podcast.
The Truth About “Porn Addiction”
Apr 12, 2022
Faith communities, therapists, and others treat porn use like an addiction issue. The reality is that abusive men often use porn.
When Churches Harm Abuse Victims
Apr 05, 2022
Your faith community should be a place of respite and support. But too many victims find clergy ignorant, harmful, and tragically, abusive. Learn more.
Should I Separate From My Husband?
Mar 29, 2022
The decision to separate can be daunting for victims of abuse. Lorelai joins Anne on the BTR podcast to discuss her own separation
How Do I Know If It’s Abuse?
Mar 22, 2022
Abusers condition victims to struggle with discerning reality. If you're here, you are trying to figure out if you are being abused. We can help.
How To Find Confidence Post-Abuse
Mar 15, 2022
If you're like other victims of abuse, then you may feel like you've lost your self-confidence. Learn how to begin finding it again.
Parenting When Your Ex is Abusive
Mar 08, 2022
Parenting is hard enough, but when your ex is abusive? Navigating the world of parenting can feel downright overwhelming. Michelle Donnelly on the BTR podcast.
Post-Separation Abuse: The Truth
Mar 01, 2022
If only abuse stopped after divorce... but abusers still seek power and control over victims. Learn the truth about post-separation abuse.
The Reality Of Spiritual Abuse
Feb 15, 2022
Spiritual abuse doesn't only affect religious women. Your beliefs about justice, hope, and karma may come crashing around you after spiritual abuse.
3 Compelling Reasons to Learn About Hidden Abuse
Feb 08, 2022
Feel overwhelmed at the thought of learning more about abuse? Here are three reasons it's a good idea to begin delving into your abuse education.
BTR.ORG Group Sessions Are Your Safe Space
Feb 01, 2022
Looking for a safe space to process your trauma and begin your journey to healing? Then BTRG is the place for you. Coach Christina on the BTR podcast.
Misogyny in Faith Communities
Jan 25, 2022
Misogyny harms everyone: men, women, and children. Valerie Hudson and Anne Blythe take a deep dive into misogyny in faith communities.
Loving Your Abuser: Three Myths
Jan 18, 2022
Have you been counseled to "love your enemies"? Take a deep dive into what this actually means with Valerie Hudson.
The Truth About Forgiving Abuse
Jan 11, 2022
Everything we thought we knew about forgiveness blamed victims and enabled abuse. Valerie Hudson joins Anne on the BTR podcast.
If only healing from betrayal trauma were as easy as reading a Reddit forum. Here's 5 Reasons why that won't work.
The Abusive Scripts That Harm Us
Dec 14, 2021
What unconscious beliefs and scripts have been harming victims for centuries? Dr. Omar Minwalla takes a deep dive with Anne.
Betrayal is Abuse, Here’s Why
Dec 07, 2021
Betrayal isn't a marriage issue - it's an abuse issue. Dr. Omar Minwalla joins Anne on the free BTR podcast to explain and empower.
The Secret Sexual Basement
Nov 30, 2021
A deep dive into the truth about why sexual betrayal is an domestic abuse with Dr. Omar MInwall and Anne Blythe on the BTR podcast.
How Does Infidelity Harm Victims?
Nov 23, 2021
Intimate betrayal can affect a victim and her children long after the abuser has left the picture. Learn more about the affects of infidelity.
Trauma Victims Deserve THIS Love
Nov 16, 2021
Betrayal trauma and abuse can condition victims to believe that they are not worthy of love. Learn what kind of love YOU deserve.
The Truth About Spiritual Abuse
Nov 09, 2021
Spiritual abuse is often more subtle and overlooked than we realize. Learn the truth about spiritual abuse and how to begin healing here.
How to Find the Best Betrayal Trauma Support Group: 5 Things to Know
Nov 02, 2021
Wondering where to find the best betrayal trauma support group? Women share their insights and experiences.
You Are Not Your Husband’s Object
Oct 28, 2021
Gary Thomas book and Debra Fileta's book, Married Sex, is traumatizing victims of sexual coercion and marital rape. Learn more.
PornHub Is Simply Abuse Videos
Oct 26, 2021
Laila MIckelwait exposes PornHub for what it really is - a cesspool of abuse videos. Learn how you can help take it down today.
Facing Your Divorce Fears
Oct 19, 2021
Face your fears about divorce and find the support you need from the BTR.ORG community. Anne discusses common fears and available support.
Why Is God Ignoring Me?
Oct 12, 2021
Women of faith communities may feel abandoned by God when they experience abuse and betrayal. Support is necessary and BTR is here for you.
Become Fearless, Free, and Uncontrollable
Oct 05, 2021
You deserve safety - become fearless, free, and uncontrollable as you seek support here in the BTR.ORG community. We love you. We believe you.
3 Power Phrases You Need Today
Sep 28, 2021
Finding safety from abuse takes courage, determination, and incredible strength. You can choose now to stop complying with abuse.
Help Prevent Human Trafficking
Sep 21, 2021
Anne Basham, human rights activist, joins Anne on the BTR podcast to teach listeners how to prevent human trafficking. Go to BTR.org for more.
Human Trafficking & Abusive Men
Sep 14, 2021
A deep dive into the correlations between human trafficking, pornography, and domestic abuse. Anne Basham joins Anne on the BTR podcast.
When He Uses The Kids To Hurt You
Sep 07, 2021
Victims can seek deliverance from the family court system, abusive clergy, and abusive partners even when these systems and individuals continue to harm them.
It’s Not a Trauma Bond: It’s A Manufactured Relational Tether
Aug 31, 2021
Did you know that you're NOT trauma bonded to the abuser? You're not. Find out how he's manipulated you to feel that way.
3 Signs of An Abusive Therapist
Aug 24, 2021
Have you felt uncomfortable, exploited, or abused by your therapist? Dee joins Anne to share her story of finding safety from her abusive therapist.
What Is Brain Defense?
Aug 17, 2021
Kristen Jensen empowers children and teens to protect themselves from the dangers of the internet, including pornography, with the new curriculum: Brain Defense.
Want to Understand Abuse? Leslie Vernick Breaks it Down
Aug 10, 2021
Leslie Vernick joins Anne to shed light on how victims of betrayal and abuse can seek safety and peace from abusive relationships. 3 steps you can take today.
What Does God Say About Abuse?
Aug 03, 2021
Leslie Vernick shares the Biblical Christian view of abuse, betrayal, and healing.
How To Support Betrayal Victims
Jul 27, 2021
To family and friends of the victims of betrayal and emotional abuse: learn how to support and validate them as they process their trauma. BTR can help.
Betrayed? You Are Not Alone
Jul 20, 2021
Are you feeling isolated and alone in your feelings of fear, shame, anxiety, and depression? Betrayal Trauma Recovery is here for you. Don't suffer in silence.
BTR Is Your Resource For Support
Jul 13, 2021
No matter where you are on your journey to healing, BTR is here for you. Read on to know how BTR can support you as you work toward the life that you deserve.
Divorcing An Abuser 101
Jul 06, 2021
Are you ready to break the cycle of abuse in your life? Divorce may be the answer for you. Learn the basics of divorcing an abuser with Wendy Hernandez.
Avoiding Chaos in the Courtroom
Jun 29, 2021
Experiencing abuse, lies, and betrayal can leave you feeling in a fog. It can feel overwhelming.
May be you are thinking: Can I stay? Am I going to take the step toward separation? What about divorce? What is going to happen?
Regardless of what ends up happening, you can takes steps to ensure safety, preparation, and peace in the process as much as possible.
Emotional Abuse Can Escalate During Separation
Wendy Hernandez, creator of Command the Courtroom, says that women in situations of emotional abuse can and should begin to prepare early for various possibilities that can happen along the journey.
"Often times the emotional abuse is in the form of legal abuse, once the divorce has gotten started. It can turn into a scorched earth type of litigation that goes on not only for months, but years. It can be destructive. Whoever is going through this, must do what makes sense for them. It can be a balance." -Wendy Hernandez, Command the Courtroom
What is Post-Separation Abuse?
It is important to focus on safety in the midst of the trauma and chaos of litigation. It can be hard to heal when safety is not secured. Post-separation abuse can and does occur, as the abuse just changes forms. Legal draining, constant litigation, and using the kids as pawns as some of the ways post-separation abuse can manifest.
Here are some helpful hints for preparing for Post-Separation Abuse:
Documentation is KEY!Communicate only in writing. Keep communication centered on children.Consider using an app or program like Our Family Wizard or Custody X Change.Be sure to respond appropriately to communication regarding children.
BTR Can Be There For You
The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group is here for you. Join today and find a community of women who understand.
You are not alone, no matter what.
Will I Ever Trust Again?
Jun 22, 2021
Abused and betrayed women wonder if they will ever recover their desire and ability to have trusting relationships. Dr. Deb Silber offers insight and advice.
From Betrayal To Breakthrough
Jun 15, 2021
How can betrayal victims begin thriving and finding themselves after betrayal? Dr. Debi Silber shares the five stages from betrayal to breakthrough.
Porn Is Abuse: Here’s Why
Jun 09, 2021
When your husband participates in a secret sexual life, whether it's over the internet, with another person, or in his own thoughts, he is abusing you.
The Truth About Betrayal Trauma
Jun 01, 2021
Knowing the truth about betrayal trauma is the first step to finding healing, peace, and hope. Betrayal trauma is the result of abuse. BTR can help. Read more.
Clean Browsing Helps Your Kids
May 25, 2021
You are not powerless against pornography. Clean Browsing empowers mothers to protect their children from the harms of pornography. Learn more.
I Found Porn On My Husband’s Phone. I’m Devastated.
May 18, 2021
If you just found porn on your husband's phone, you're not alone. Listen to Cristy share her story.
3 Toxic Myths About Sex That Harm Women
May 11, 2021
Sheila Gregoire, author of The Great Sex Rescue, deconstructs toxic sex myths to empower women in their journeys to safety.
Sexuality 101 For Betrayed Women
May 04, 2021
Abusive men condition women to view sexuality through a lens of pain, confusion, and fear. Sheila Gregoire guides victims to understand the truth about sex.
Fighting A Narcissist For Custody
Apr 27, 2021
Wondering how to fight for your children as you divorce your narcissistic abuser? Tina Swithin shares powerful insights.
3 Ways To Prepare To Divorce your Narcissist
Apr 20, 2021
It's never too early or too late to begin preparing to divorce your narcissistic abuser. Here are 3 tips from Tina Swithin to help you on your journey to healing.
How Does Prayer Help Abuse Victims?
Apr 13, 2021
Do you feel afraid? Overwhelmed? Alone? Prayer can help you as you navigate your journey to healing.
3 Values We Can Expect From Men
Apr 06, 2021
When you've only known abuse and betrayal, what can you really expect from men? Learn 3 values that you can expect, and what to do when men choose to abuse.
My Husband Calls Me Abusive
Mar 30, 2021
Grounding yourself in truth and safety when your husband calls you abusive.
Your Husband Is Devaluing You
Mar 23, 2021
Do you feel confused? Alone? Afraid? Your husband may be devaluing you. Learn more.
Is Your Husband Grooming You?
Mar 16, 2021
He says he's changed. He's made serious promises. But how do you know it's real? Is your husband grooming you? Find out here.
When Your Husband Is Clergy
Mar 09, 2021
Is your abuser also your spiritual or religious leader? Learn what you can do to keep yourself safe.
You Can’t Fix Your Abuser
Mar 02, 2021
You can't cause, control, or cure the abuser: you can't fix your abuser. You can only set boundaries and seek safety for yourself. BTR can help.
BTR.ORG Group Sessions Are For YOU!
Feb 23, 2021
Have you been ignored, dismissed, minimized, vilified, and torn down by those who should have helped you? BTR.ORG Group Sessions are for YOU!
4 Behaviors of Pornography Users
Feb 16, 2021
Do you suspect that your partner is using porn? Have you discovered pornographic material on his phone or computer? These 4 tell-tale behaviors of pornography users will validate you and help you understand how his behavior is harming you.
Tiffany Barnes join Anne Blythe on the free BTR podcast to share her insights and experience regarding the ways pornography users abuse women. Read the full transcript below and listen to the free BTR podcast for more.
Pornography Users Gaslight Victims
Gaslighting is a universal tool of abusers. By distorting the victim's reality, porn users can avoid accountability and shift blame onto the victim.
Gaslighting is also known as crazy-making.
When Tiffany would confront her abusive ex-partner about his pornography use, she was gaslit:
He just tried to make me feel like I was being crazy, and I did. I questioned it a few times; am Icrazy? Is this just me being ultra-paranoid or something?
Pornography Users Attempt To Normalize Their Porn Use
Often, pornography users employ tactics to make their sexually depraved behaviors appear normal to avoid accountability and make the victim feel "prude", boring, or immature.
Some of the ways that pornography users attempt to normalize porn are:
"Hiding" pornographic material in plain sightCalling pornographic material "art"Saying things like, "Everyone does this"; "I'm a guy, that's what guys do"; or "No other woman would have issues about my porn use."Saying that they use pornography to help the marriage/relationship become strongerBlaming the victim by saying things like, "If you would have sex with me more, I wouldn't do this."
Pornography is NOT a healthy and natural piece of human sexuality: it is abuse and exploitation. When victims can ground themselves in this truth, their partner's manipulation won't work any more.
Pornography Users Dehumanize Their Partners
Many women report being photographed, videotaped, or even live-streamed by their abusive partners. Women are sexually coerced, degraded, and physically harmed when phonography users demand sexual contact.
Pornography itself is objectification: selling women's bodies for money. When men choose to view pornographic material, they are by default objectifying other human beings. This rarely stays compartmentalized.
Pornography users dehumanize their partners by:Fantasizing about themAsking them to perform sexual acts that the victims are not comfortable withAsking victims to view pornography with themDemanding or guilting partners into having sexual contactFilming, photographing, or otherwise sharing sexual photos of victims, with or without consent
Pornography Users Sexually Coerce Partners
Any time a man has sexual contact with his partner without fully disclosing his sexual history, including pornography use, he is guilty of sexual coercion.
Healthy sex is consensual. Women cannot give informed consent when men withhold key information about their own sexual behaviors. This is sexual coercion, a serious form of sexual abuse.
If you think you are being sexually coerced by your partner, ask yourself: Have we ever had sexual contact when he had used phonography but hadn't told me? If the answer is yes, then you are a victim of sexual abuse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkPH4zkxJYw
Betrayal Trauma Recovery Supports Victims of Pornography Users
At BTR, we understand the confusion, fear, and devastation that women experience when their partner is using porn.
That is why we created the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group: so that women can have access to multiple, live sessions every day.
The BTRG gives women the opportunity to process trauma, ask questions, and share difficult feelings in a safe place. Join today.
Full Transcript:
Welcome to Betrayal Trauma Recovery, this is Anne.
I have some amazing news! We just surpassed 1 million downloads to the podcast, which I never everimagined would happen,
Emancipate Yourself From Emotional Abuse
Feb 09, 2021
You deserve safety, authentic love, and healing. Emancipate yourself from abuse today.
3 Ways To Process Trauma With Art
Feb 02, 2021
Art can help victims of emotional abuse and betrayal process their trauma.
3 Ways Your Husband Is “Meatloafing” You
Jan 26, 2021
Does your abuser make big promises but refuse or "forget" to follow through? Learn about "meatloafing".
I’m a Victim of Narcissistic Abuse, But They’re Calling ME Crazy
Jan 19, 2021
Narcissistic abusers & their flying monkeys (enablers) accuse victims of being overly sensitive, cruel, and crazy. BTR can help you find safety and peace.
3 Ways Your Abuser is Grooming You (& How To Get To Safety)
Jan 12, 2021
Does he say he's changing, but you still feel unheard and confused? Learn how your abuser is grooming you and how to find safety.
Immeasurable Pain: When Husbands Sexually Abuse Their Wives
Jan 05, 2021
When men sexually abuse their wives, they are causing immeasurable harm. Women can seek healing and justice.
3 Roadblocks That Keep Victims of Abuse & Sexual Coercion Stuck
Dec 29, 2020
Why victims of abuse and sexual coercion are afraid to leave their abusers and resources to help them leave.
How To Protect Yourself From In-Law Abuse (Plus 12 Ways Enablers Harm Victims)
Dec 22, 2020
Are you a victim of in-law abuse? Learn more here.
How Can I Start Implementing No Contact Today?
Dec 15, 2020
You CAN implement a no contact boundary, even if it feels impossible. Learn more here.
3 Ironclad Steps To Safely Leave Your Abuser
Dec 09, 2020
Ready to leave your abusive partner? 3 must-know steps as you prepare to seek safety.
3 Ways Healthy Womanhood Helps Victims Of Emotional Abuse
Dec 01, 2020
When victims of betrayal and abuse embrace healthy womanhood, they can begin the journey to healing.
How Can Feminism Help Me Heal From Betrayal Trauma?
Nov 24, 2020
When victims of betrayal and abuse understand their worth as human beings, they can begin their journey to healing.
Post-Traumatic Growth: Will I Ever Be Okay Again?
Nov 17, 2020
Victims of abuse and betrayal CAN heal and experience post-traumatic growth with safety and support.
New Age Bypass Is Victim-Blaming
Nov 10, 2020
Victims of betrayal and abuse can learn to identify and reject New Age Bypass tactics as they begin healing. BTR can help.
3 Tips To Protect You From Clergy Sexual Misconduct
Nov 03, 2020
No woman deserves to be victimized by the clergy she trusts. Dave Gemmel provides 3 tips to protect you today.
The Truth About Clergy Sexual Misconduct
Oct 27, 2020
When clergy use their position of authority to take advantage of trust, they may be committing clergy sexual misconduct. Learn more.
Dating After Betrayal: 3 Tips
Oct 20, 2020
Victims of betrayal and emotional abuse may be concerned about dating after an abusive relationship. Jessica Skybar offers empowering tips.
“I Asked About Porn, & He Lied”
Oct 13, 2020
What to do when your husband lies to you about his pornography use.
Lundy Bancroft: “You Are Crucial”
Oct 06, 2020
Lundy Bancroft shares how victims of abuse are betrayed by faith communities, court systems, and others. Women can triumph over trauma and regain their sense of self. BTR can help.
Why Domestic Abuse is Child Abuse: Lundy Bancroft Tells All
Sep 29, 2020
Children are always affected by an abuser's behavior, even if they never see it. Victims are not powerless. Lundy Bancroft explains how mothers can protect and help their children process and heal from abuse.
4 Things Emotional Abuse Victims Need to Know
Sep 22, 2020
Victims of emotional abuse are stronger, smarter, and more capable than their abusers want them to think. These 5 truths help women find strength and safety.
7 Truths About Emotional Abuse
Sep 15, 2020
Myths about emotional abuse enable abusers to keep abusing victims. The 7 Powerful Truths About Emotional Abuse help victims find safety.
Why Does Sex Hurt? (It’s Not What You Think)
Sep 08, 2020
Sexual abuse causes pelvic and sexual pain. Learn how to identify sexual abuse in your marriage and begin healing today.
3 Tactics Emotional Abusers Use
Sep 01, 2020
When victims can identify abuse, they can make informed decisions about their safety and health. Learn 3 tactics abusers use, and why they are so powerful.
You’re Not Crazy: Porn Is Abuse
Aug 25, 2020
Victims of abusive pornography users may wonder if they are overreacting, but they aren't: pornography use is abusive. Support, safety, and self-care can help women find healing.
Find Safety From Emotional Abuse
Aug 11, 2020
Victims of emotional abuse deserve safety: a guide to victims on seeking safety from an abusive relationship.
Is Lying Emotionally Abusive?
Aug 04, 2020
Victims of emotional abuse say that lies and manipulation are one of the most damaging pieces of the abuse they endure.
Is Emotional Abuse a Domestic Abuse Issue?
Jul 28, 2020
It's not "just emotional abuse": it's also domestic abuse and must be treated seriously.
Covert Abuse? You’re In Danger
Jul 21, 2020
He may not hit you, yell at you, or seem like a mean, angry bully - but covert abuse is just as dangerous and harmful as physical battery. Learn more.
BTRG Is Here For You
Jul 14, 2020
Many women have a difficult time finding the right support for betrayal trauma and emotional & psychological abuse. Nikki shares how BTR Group supports her when there's no support where she lives.
Why Can’t I See Emotional Abuse?
Jul 07, 2020
Anne Blythe and Marni Bown, Shero and public speaker, talk about why so many women have difficulty recognizing the emotional and psychological abuse in their own relationships.
Self-Care For Betrayal Victims
Jun 16, 2020
Betrayed women have a hard time learning to take care of themselves again. Trish White shares the 4 Essential Components of Great Self-Care for beginners.
Self-Care & Betrayal Trauma
Jun 09, 2020
When a woman has been betrayed, self-care is the last thing on her mind, but it's the most important thing she can do for her own healing. Trish White explains why.
5 Reasons To Attend a BTR Group Session
Jun 02, 2020
Finally learning that you aren't alone in your struggles is validating. Finding a support group and a coach that really gets your unique situation is priceless.
‘Trauma Mama’ Empowers YOU!
May 26, 2020
Explaining the effects of emotional and psychological abuse to someone else is nearly impossible, especially when you're still trying to figure it out yourself! Anne Blythe presents Trauma Mama Husband Drama! Anne and Virginia talk about the process of writing the book and how it can help women get the help they need and heal.
Healing Trauma From Hidden Abuse
May 19, 2020
Deep cuts, broken bones, broken hearts or hidden bruises, any of these can hurt again years after they've healed. Shannon Thomas talks about resurfacing trauma and what to do with it.
The 6 Stages Of Healing from Hidden Abuse
May 12, 2020
There are no physical bruises, scars, or blood, but the pain is real. Shannon Thomas talks about hidden abuses and the 6
Stages to Heal From Hidden Abuse.
“Trauma Mama” Can Help You Today
May 05, 2020
Combined with beautiful illustrations by Cristalwolf Lobazul, Anne Blythe uses simple words and pictures to help explain the emotional and psychological abuse women experience as a result of their husband's pornography use.
Divorcing An Emotional Abuser
Apr 28, 2020
Emotional abuse is abuse. Period. You can find safety and peace again after emotional abuse - learn more here.
Preparing For Divorce While Hoping He Changes
Apr 21, 2020
Betrayal and abuse make preparing for divorce a necessity for victims. Even when you are hoping that he decides to change, educating yourself is key.
How Do I Set Boundaries In My Marriage?
Apr 14, 2020
You can establish healthy boundaries in your marriage, post-betrayal, by following these simple guidelines to gain greater emotional safety & stability.
3 Boundaries You Can Set Today
Mar 24, 2020
3 helpful boundaries for women ready to find safety and healing after emotional abuse.
4 Phrases That Enable Abuse
Mar 21, 2020
Abuse doesn't stop during a crisis, in fact, it escalates. BTR can help.
3 Empowering Words For Victims
Mar 17, 2020
When emotional abuse leaves you feeling lost in the darkness, where do you turn for comfort and peace?
Abusive Behaviors To Watch For During A Crisis
Mar 12, 2020
During a crisis, domestic abuse escalates. Women can minimize the effects of the abuse; BTR can help.
Divorcing A Narcissist
Mar 10, 2020
What to expect when you are divorcing a narcissist.
“My Clergy Betrayed Me”
Mar 03, 2020
When clergy turns on victims of narcissistic abuse, the secondary trauma can feel overwhelming. Hear June's story.
Let’s Talk About Financial Abuse
Feb 25, 2020
Post-divorce abuse is real and devastating. BTR can help.
Why Disclosures Are Harmful
Feb 11, 2020
Disclosures do not give victims the safety they deserve - even though it may seem like a good idea, usually victims are just more harmed. Learn why.
How To Get Back To Yourself After Emotional Abuse
Feb 04, 2020
Victims of abuse and betrayal ask, "will I ever be myself again?" BTR can help women find safety and healing.
The Ugly Truth About Pornography
Jan 21, 2020
The pornography/sex trafficking industry is an insidious and dangerous reality for women.
My Husband is Admitting He’s Abusive
Jan 07, 2020
Your husband is getting on board with recovery work and you're hopeful that this time it's real. How to respond when your husband appears to "get it".
The Kill Zone: Kids & Porn
Dec 31, 2019
Victims of betrayal and abuse can teach their children the truth about pornography.
When Abusers Use “Spiritual Bypass” To Fool You
Dec 24, 2019
Is he really in recovery? When abusers use spiritual bypass to circumvent true change.
Spiritual Bypass Harms Victims
Dec 17, 2019
Victims of betrayal and abuse can choose 'healing' instead of 'coping'.
5 Ways To Help The Child Of A Narcissist
Dec 10, 2019
Narcissistic fathers harm children, but victims can rise up and guide their children to safety and healing.
How To Endure A Custody Battle With A Narcissist
Dec 03, 2019
3 must-know tips for victims preparing to divorce their narcissistic partner.
Escaping The Fog Of Marital Rape
Nov 26, 2019
Victims of marital rape deserve safety and support.
How to Deal With a Narcissistic Husband: 5 Tips
Nov 19, 2019
Learn how to survive marriage with your narcissistic husband.
5 Tips To Surviving The Holidays
Nov 15, 2019
5 Tips for victims of betrayal and abuse during the holiday season.
How To Co Parent With a Narcissist
Nov 12, 2019
Dr. Ramani teaches you how to effective co parent when your ex-husband is a narcissist.
Voicing The Agony of Trauma
Nov 05, 2019
Victims of abuse and betrayal begin their journey to healing when they find their voice.
Surviving Narcissistic Abuse
Oct 29, 2019
Learning about narcissistic abuse can help victims find safety and begin healing.
Susan Powell’s Story: Betrayal & Murder
Oct 22, 2019
Important lessons about abuse and safety from Susan Powell's story.
Call It Abuse, Save Lives
Oct 15, 2019
Victims of abuse and betrayal deserve to be validated, supported, and guided to safety. Call it abuse and you may save her life.
Honor Code Office Trauma
Oct 08, 2019
Institutional abuse re-traumatizes victims; when victims find their voices and share their stories, healing can begin.
Self-Care: Surviving Abuse
Oct 01, 2019
Self-care tips for victims of betrayal and abuse.
Why Pornography Is More Than Sex
Sep 24, 2019
Pornography users commit three major sins: lust, greed, and dishonesty. Learn more.
The Abuse Vortex
Sep 18, 2019
When victims become empowered through trauma and abuse education, they can find safety and begin healing.
Pornography Is An Abuse Issue
Sep 10, 2019
Pornography is abusive: here's why.
“I Realized I Was Being Abused!”
Aug 28, 2019
Victims can learn to identify and protect themselves from abuse. BTR can help.
Why Relationship Boundaries Lists Get it All WRONG (with Examples)
Aug 20, 2019
Many therapists encourage women to write a list of boundaries. Here's why that never works, with real life examples.
What Is In-Home Separation And How Can It Help Me?
Aug 14, 2019
What does an in-home separation entail, and does it actually work? BTR can help.
The Best Betrayal Trauma Resources For Women
Aug 06, 2019
You deserve the BEST resources for betrayal trauma as you navigate your journey to emotional safety, healing, and peace. Learn more.
12-Step: What You Should Know
Jul 31, 2019
12 Step programs may be beneficial to victims of abuse and betrayal AFTER safety has been established.
Weaponizing Codependency Language
Jul 24, 2019
Codependency language is a dangerous weapon in the hands of an abusive/unfaithful man.
Is My Husband Grooming Me?
Jun 26, 2019
Grooming is a universal tool of abusers. Learn what it is, how to spot it, and how to find safety.
Pornography: A Human Rights Issue
Jun 18, 2019
Pornography is a human rights issue. Learn more.
Is Pornography A Feminist Issue?
Jun 12, 2019
Pornography is anti-woman and anti-feminist. Learn more.
Protect Teens From Sexual Abuse
Jun 05, 2019
Empower teens to set boundaries to protect themselves from sexual coercion and abuse.
End Sexual Exploitation
May 29, 2019
Pornography is sexual exploitation. Learn how you can join the fight for a porn-free world.
Betrayal Trauma Checklist
May 21, 2019
What are your next steps to find safety and support after discovering betrayal? BTR can help.
Is Pornography Sexual Coercion?
May 14, 2019
Sexual coercion takes on many forms, including the non-disclosure of secret sexual behaviors.
They Blamed ME For The Abuse
Apr 30, 2019
Domestic abuse isn't only physical battering. Learn more.
My Clergy Traumatized Me
Apr 23, 2019
Victims are often re-traumatized by religious leaders when they seek help for abuse and betrayal.
Parenting Special Needs Children
Apr 16, 2019
Every victim of betrayal and abuse deserves support: especially mothers of special needs children. BTR can help.
12-Step: What You Need To Know
Apr 09, 2019
12 Step programs teach self-improvement to women who actually need safety and validation.
The Codependency Model Exposed
Apr 02, 2019
Betrayed women are not codependent, they are victims of abuse. BTR can help.
How To Recognize Victim Blaming
Mar 19, 2019
Victim-blaming is harmful and hurtful. BTR can help.
Body Image Issues & Betrayal
Mar 12, 2019
Betrayal and abuse can cause severe body image issues in victims. Hope and healing are possible. BTR can help.
How Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Saved My Life
Mar 05, 2019
After betrayal trauma, many women still feel unsafe, traumatized, and misunderstood. Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group can help empower women to heal and find hope. Our amazing clients share their testimonials of Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group and the services BTR provides.
How To Handle Trauma Triggers
Feb 26, 2019
Triggers are a natural result of betrayal trauma. Learn how to use them to your benefit.
Your Abusive Husband’s Therapist
Feb 19, 2019
Four necessary statements from your husband's therapist.
Why Pornography Is Adultery
Feb 12, 2019
Porn use is adultery and abuse. BTR can help.
Can Legitimate Anger Be Helpful?
Feb 05, 2019
Anger helps victims of betrayal and abuse identify abusive behavior and set boundaries.
The Healing Power Of “Me-Too”
Jan 29, 2019
Saying "Me Too" can help victims begin the journey to healing. BTR can help.
The Truth About Wife Rape
Jan 22, 2019
Join Anne as she interviews Wendy, survivor of marital rape. Listen to how this experience has impacted Wendy's life. Gain valuable information about wife rape and sexual assault within marriage. Learn why this is so damaging and harmful to victims.
Your CSAT Is Harming You
Jan 08, 2019
Betrayed women are not co-addicts: they are victims of trauma.
Betrayal Hurts, But You CAN Heal
Dec 18, 2018
Betrayal trauma is devastating. Women CAN find healing and peace. BTR can help.
How Friends & Family Can Help Abuse Victims
Dec 11, 2018
Family and friends can help or harm victims. Learn how to support victims of abuse.
Connecting With Children After Betrayal Trauma
Dec 04, 2018
Betrayal trauma is overwhelming. Small steps can help mothers re-connect with their children.
Transformation After Betrayal
Nov 27, 2018
Betrayal trauma doesn't have to ruin your life - you CAN heal and experience Post-Betrayal Transformation.
What Is Clean Browsing?
Nov 20, 2018
Creating a porn-free environment is an absolute necessity for every family.
Want a Porn-Free Home? Here’s How
Nov 13, 2018
Victims of betrayal trauma want porn-free homes. Here's how.
What Are Women Saying About Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group?
Nov 07, 2018
Alone? Afraid? Join the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group today.
Are Porn Users Abusive? Yes, Here’s Why.
Oct 30, 2018
It is a topic that is shrouded in controversy. Do porn users have abusive tendencies within relationships? Is there a link between porn use and abuse? What is the link between porn and aggression?
Is Cheating Emotional Abuse?
Oct 16, 2018
Learn from Dr. Omar Minwalla why cheating is abuse.
Your Guide to Dating After Narcissistic Abuse
Oct 09, 2018
Here's your guide to dating after narcissistic abuse, shared by Kate*, a survivor.
Why Do I Feel Like My Husband is Cheating On Me?
Oct 02, 2018
You don't have proof, but something just feels "off". Learn how to navigate the dread that your husband is cheating.
3 Signs of Spiritual Abuse in the Church
Sep 25, 2018
Learn how to the 3 signs of spiritual abuse as Liz shares her story.
Is Partner Betrayal Trauma Counseling Right For Me?
Sep 18, 2018
Is partner betrayal trauma counseling the answer after infidelity? Learn more.
Is Infidelity a Form of Emotional Abuse?
Sep 11, 2018
Learn exactly why infidelity is considered a form of emotional abuse.
My Husband’s Emotional Restitution Letter
Sep 04, 2018
An emotional restitution letter can be difficult to process in the aftermath of betrayal.
Why Does My Husband Look At Other Women Online?
Aug 28, 2018
Why is your husband looking at other women and watching porn online when he knows it hurts you? Learn the real reasons.
How Do I Heal From Narcissistic Abuse?
Aug 21, 2018
Learn how to heal from the devastating effects of narcissistic abuse by learning the three steps to narcissistic abuse recovery.
Teaching Children Online Safety: Try This New Resource!
Aug 01, 2018
Teaching children online safety is essential in today's world, and White Ribbon Week is an incredible resource for parents and schools.
How to Find Your Voice When You Feel Small
Jul 24, 2018
Emotional abuse makes us feel small, but Allyson Peterson explains how to find your voice, no matter your situation. You CAN find your power and stand in it.
Are Your Kids Safe At Church? What You Need to Know
Jul 17, 2018
Your kids deserve to be safe everywhere they go - especially at church. Kimberly Perry is on the podcast diving into personal & institutional safety for kids.
How to Begin Healing Trauma From Childhood Sexual Abuse
Jul 10, 2018
Anne & Rachel Grant discuss healing from child sexual abuse and other relational traumas, self-acceptance, and strategies for coping.
My Husband’s Betrayal Broke My Heart: Is Inner Peace Possible?
Jul 03, 2018
The devastation of betrayal trauma & emotional abuse may lead you to wonder if you will ever feel inner peace again. Anne shares her heart on the podcast.
What is the Best Resource For Women With Betrayal Trauma? (BTR Group Sessions vs Bloom For Women)
Jun 27, 2018
Are BTR.ORG Group Sessions or Bloom for Women Resources best for YOU in YOUR healing journey? Find out what both offer & what our clients have to say.
The Best Resources For Personal Empowerment & Healing
Jun 19, 2018
Personal empowerment is essential on the road to recovery from intimate betrayal. Dr. Sheri Keffer is back on The BTR.ORG Podcast.
Intimate Deception: How To Begin Your Healing Journey
Jun 12, 2018
Learn why intimate deception is so hurtful and how to heal from the pain with Dr. Sheri Keffer, author & betrayal trauma expert.
When Your Husband Betrays You With Men
Jun 05, 2018
When your husband betrays you with men, you may grapple with difficult emotions. Sara Schulting Kranz shines a bright light on this form of betrayal.
How to Find Hope & Healing After Emotional Abuse
May 29, 2018
Looking back on her personal journey, Anne shares the importance of faith and hope in healing from betrayal trauma and emotional abuse.
How To Establish Healthy Boundaries With Your Abusive Ex
May 22, 2018
Setting and holding healthy boundaries with your abusive ex may feel daunting - Kate talks through her journey on the podcast.
When They Say “Forgive Your Abuser”
May 15, 2018
"Forgive your abuser" can be deeply invalidating counsel. Anne breaks down the relationship between boundaries and forgiveness.
Teaching Children About Porn: What YOU Need to Know
May 09, 2018
Teaching children about porn doesn't have to be an overwhelming experience for kids, teens, and parents. Dina Alexander breaks it down.
A Close Look At Betrayal Trauma Symptoms (Am I Crazy?)
May 01, 2018
Are you trying to figure out whether or not you're suffering from betrayal trauma? Dive into our article for a candid chat about its symptoms and how to heal.
Learn How To Conquer Betrayal Trauma With Art
May 01, 2018
When it's too hard to find the words to express your trauma and pain, art therapy is a powerful tool to process the betrayal and emotional abuse.
Escaping the Fantasy Trap: How To Find Healing in Presence
Apr 24, 2018
Many women grapple with compulsive fantasies. Breaking free from the trap of fantasy ultimately leads to a more fulfilling and authentic life. Tune in for more.
It’s Perfectly Okay to Numb Out (In Healthy Ways)
Apr 17, 2018
Are you numbing out the pain of betrayal and abuse? It's okay to take a mental break sometimes! Anne talks about healthy ways to "numb out".
How To Help Other Betrayal & Emotional Abuse Victims
Apr 10, 2018
Lisa shares her journey of discovering BTR.ORG, highlighting how YOU can help other betrayal & emotional abuse victims in simple ways.