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TRIGGER WARNING: THIS EPISODE CONTAINS A DISCUSSION ABOUT SUICIDE Is there a “right” way to be Christian? How does the way you think about God inform how you treat others? Can bad theology be dangerous? In this podcast episode, Billy and Brandy Eldridge speak with Kevin Garcia about how bad theology kills. Meet Kevin Garcia Kevin Garcia is a digital pastor, a mystical theologian practitioner, and an intuitive soul coach based in Atlanta, GA. After coming out in the fall of 2015 as a queer Christian, Kevin has reached thousands of individuals across the globe with messages of God’s unending love for all people, regardless of who they are. Through his work as a digital pastor and public theologian, Kevin has used their writing, podcast, and YouTube Channel to help foster communities of authentic spiritual seeking, pulling apart the bad theology and beginning to reconstruct sustainable spiritual practices. Kevin believes that by telling our stories, we set others free to tell their own. Kevin is the author of Bad Theology Kills: undoing toxic beliefs and reclaiming your spiritual authority. Kevin is also the creator of Queerly Beloved Apparel and Big Queer Adventure Co. Visit Kevin’s website and connect on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Youtube. In This Podcast Summary The danger of bad theology Is there ever necessary suffering? Is there a “right” way to be Christian? The danger of bad theology This shit made me want to kill myself and I attempted twice. That to me is not good, and what is not good is called bad. This is the theology that led me to the edge, and that’s not good, so therefore it must be bad. (Kevin Garcia) Systems of belief are as dangerous as any other weapon because they can lead a person – and people – to assume what is right, what is wrong, what is accepted, and what is excluded, without asking or enquiring. Thoughts and beliefs are not permanent. They can be shifted, if a person is willing to have some open and honest conversations. Drugs kill, rah-rah kills … bad theology kills … this idea expanded beyond human sensuality … I think what we think about God is what we think about humanity in general, and how we think about God also [informs] how we are going to treat humanity. (Kevin Garcia) As Kevin discusses, if we do not see one another as divine then we are not going to treat each other well. Of course people don’t treat trans people with respect [because] they don’t see us as part of God’s image because God was, “male and female and He created them”. (Kevin Garcia) Is there ever necessary suffering? Suffering, in some ways, is a part of life. There will always be some difficult times to move through, regardless of who you are or where you come from. The suffering that we experience as a result of systems of oppression needs to be identified so that we can recognize that it’s not our fault. (Kevin Garcia) However, your background can either help you to move through the suffering more easily, or your background can make it more difficult. For example, it is easier for some people to “get on” with suffering because they have the privilege of coming from a stable background, being educated, having family wealth, and a support network. For other people who have different backgrounds or lack financial or emotional support due to past or present systems of oppression, there is no equity in that suffering. You’ve got the new-age hippy-dippy people that say, “if you just vibe and think differently about it you’re going to feel better”. That works really well if you are white, able-bodied, cisgender, male, or affluent. That’s who that works for 100% of the time. (Kevin Garcia) Is there a “right” way to be Christian? Wait a minute, the Catholics think that they’re the universal church, and my church thinks that everyone’s ecumenical, and then other people think that gay people are going to hell no matter what, then there are those other people that think gay people are okay, can they all be correct? That doesn’t make any logical sense to me. (Kevin Garcia) Is there a “correct” way to be Christian? Once Kevin reached their 20s, they had the space, time, and energy to finally address life on their terms and not by what other people had constantly told them. That’s where it started to break down. I was on the mission field, I was trying to be the best Christian in the world and I was told that these things would make me happy, but they did not. In fact, trying to deny myself made me even sadder. (Kevin Garcia) Useful links: BOOK | Kevin Garcia – Bad Theology Kills: Undoing Toxic Belief & Reclaiming Your Spiritual Authority Visit Kevin’s website and connect on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Youtube. A harrowing journey with Madehania Baheta Discover more at The Beta Male Revolution Website Meet Billy Eldridge Meet Billy, the resident beta male. For Billy, this is a place to hang out with other beta males and the people who love them. We’re redefining what beta males look like in the world. I have learned to embrace my best beta self, and I can help you to do the same. As a therapist, I understand the need to belong. You belong here. Join the REVOLUTION. Meet Brandy Eldridge Hello, Beta friends. I am an alpha personality who is embracing the beta way of life. I feel alive when connected with people, whether that is listening to their stories or learning about their passions. Forget small talk, let’s go deep together. Come to the table and let’s have some life-changing conversations. Thanks for listening! Did you enjoy this podcast? Feel free to leave a comment below or share this podcast on social media! You can also leave a review of the Beta Male Revolution Podcast on iTunes and subscribe! Beta Male Revolution is part of the Practice of the Practice Podcast Network, a network of podcasts seeking to help you thrive, imperfectly. To hear other podcasts like the Bomb Mom Podcast, Imperfect Thriving, or Empowered and Unapologetic, go to practiceofthepractice.com/network. Podcast Transcription [BILLY ELDRIDGE]A quick warning. This episode contains mention of suicide. So listener discretion is advised. Hello and welcome to beta mail revolution podcast. A podcast that started out by seeing the world through a different lens of masculinity, and now has become a place for people to deconstruct their in the second half of life. I’m Billy Eldridge.[BRANDY ELDRIDGE]I’m Brandy Eldridge. As a married couple, we’ve had a ton of disagreements, tried to be honest about challenges and setbacks and hopes of becoming better versions of ourselves. So grab a cup of coffee, come hang out. Let’s chat a little bit like we’ve known each other for 20 years.[BILLY]That’s what I’m talking about. Let’s get jaggy with it.[BILLY]Today on the podcast we have Kevin Garcia, author of Bad Theology Kills, and I figured we owed our audience an explanation about why topics like these matter to us, why, especially around the LGBTQ community and why it matters that we talk about these things As a straight couple in the south. Why even care? Why does it even matter? For me, it would probably center around the way I was brought up to believe about homosexuality and the LGBTQ community. It wasn’t necessarily inclusive. Well, it wasn’t inclusive. It wasn’t including, it didn’t allow spaces and places for us to even begin to have conversations around this issue, especially when it came to faith, because it was a sin, it was wrong. Whoever was engaged in this world and this lifestyle needed to change their behavior to be a part of the and club, I would say, I was a part of growing up and my faith community. When I became a counselor and I got to know people and their stories, and even before that, getting to know people, it began to challenge my ideas around this issue. When I began to question this, I had to begin to question everything. So I’ve been on a learning journey ever since then. I’m still on that journey. People like Kevin, who is a digital pastor, a mystic, a theologian and a person of faith helped me learn and helped. So Brandy, what is it for you?[BRANDY]I think right now, it’s just a non-issue. My God is, I don’t even have words for it. People are just so much more than their sexuality and I really appreciate Kevin for coming on. Kevin is an amazing person and sexuality shouldn’t matter because when you listen to Kevin, it’s just light and love and had so much to learn. I’m just ready for it to be a non-issue there’s. So many other issues right now in our world, in our country that need to be addressed. I’m just over this one.[BILLY]But I can understand, like for people who are even in our family, that this is a difficult thing. It’s challenging for them to begin to, well, it goes down to the fundamentals of your faith and how you interpret scripture when you grow up in a conservative Christian space.[BRANDY]So fundamentals of Christianity then like, love the Lord of your God with all your heart and love others done.[BILLY]Yes. But the challenge to that is we, from what I hear from people, is that we have an obligation to speak the truth and love to people who are outside of God’s will. Because if we don’t, they may spend an eternity separate from God. So what we’re doing by challenging their lifestyle and beliefs is really a loving, gracious thing where we’re doing —[BRANDY]Yes, I’m just over, it’s just not interesting anymore. It’s just not interesting, the fight, the argument, like none of that is interesting to me. I just am over it. I mean, that’s my attitude today. Tomorrow may be different and I may be able to fight and ready, but I’m not. I’m just like people, if you are so concerned about what goes on in other people’s bedrooms, then there’s something wrong. Just leave it alone, go love on some people, go feed some homeless people, get out of your own self-righteous self. You’re probably going to say we need to edit this because I don’t need to say that but it’s just at this point, I just don’t care. If your whole job in life and you feel that you need to make everyone else like you, then go do that, see how it’s working out for you. You’re going to miss out on a great, many amazing people and their stories, and that’s not empathy. That’s not practicing empathy. You haven’t walked in their shoes. You don’t know their story. It’s really self-righteous of us to presume we know so much about people that it’s our job to tell them to be more like us. That’s not, it’s not who I want to be. It’s not who I’m raising my kids to be. If that’s your way, go ahead and unfriend me, stop following us. Don’t listen to our podcast because that’s not what I’m here to do. You’re going to miss out on some amazing stories of people and their struggles and the connection. To me, that brings me closer to God, when I hear that people have struggled and I can relate to that. It’s vulnerability. Man, who are we to say that we’ve got it all understood and that our lives are perfect. If people would just act more like us, how is that love? How is that empathy? How is that kindness? How is that graciousness? Like none of the fruits of the spirit come from that. So if we’re going to go there, I don’t want to be a part of it anymore. I just don’t.[BILLY]I like your firing, your love. It’s contagious.[BRANDY]We both read your book.[BILLY]We have Kevin Garcia, the author, Bad Theology Kills. We hope to get into a little bit of that because we want to readers to grab the book and read it, because —[KEVIN GARCIA]Oh yes, love talking about it.[BILLY]You rock our world. We’ve had friends with personal stories that, have a dear friend who decided when he was 40, he was going to end his life because he realized people would really start asking, why aren’t you married and when are you going to get married? These are the stories we hear and we live with the day and we don’t want to be a part of systems that make people want to die.[KEVIN]What a concept?[BILLY]Yes, yes.[KEVIN]What a nice concept, what nice feeling?[BILLY]So wherever you want to take us, but where did it start? What happened and where are you now?[BRANDY]How did the Kevin Garcia[BILLY]The Kevin Garcia?[KEVIN]Well, it was, before I’d even come out, I was trying to figure out like my branding and whatnot, because that’s what you did. Because I was like, I was a blogger before I was anything else, when blogging was huge and it was like, Rachel Hal Evans, Sarah Basy, Jeff Chew, that little circuit. That was a progressive Christian thought at the time.[BILLY]I’m sorry to interrupt, but I listened to a podcast where you said you wanted to be the gay Rachel Hal Evans.[KEVIN]Still stands.[BILLY]We were trying to think —[KEVIN]Go ahead.[BILLY]We’re trying to be the straight Glen and Dolly. It’s not really, we want to be, we’ve got a long way to go, but we’re trying.[KEVIN]Listen, every day that you just try to have some fun as you’re doing this thing, that’s the thing about podcasting and that’s the thing I think people enjoy about listening to those two, is that they have fun and people are going to follow joy. It’s really attractive to me. The Bad Theology thing started off as a t-shirt because apparently I can only write books that I have like a whole t-shirt and branding strategy around first. But it started off as my one little sentence to sum up why I changed my mind about specifically sexuality, whether like does God bless same-sex marriage, let alone gender diversity or anything else. Because that was the question I had to start with was like, is it okay for me to be queer, specifically gay? Can I be a gay man and be a Christian? When that became quite obvious it just became so clear to me, like even beyond having a hermaneutic or a theology or an argument for it’s just like, this shit made me want to kill myself. I attempted twice. That to me is not good and so what is not good is called bad. So I was like, okay, so this is a theology that led me to the edge and that’s not good. Therefore it must be bad and I was like, oh, and then I thought about the edge. There’s all this sort of like drugs kill, rah rock kills, I’m like Bad Theology Kills. I meant that in the most sincere way and then I saw that this idea expanded beyond just human sexuality, but has everything to do with, I think what we think about God is what we think about humanity in general and how we think about God is also how we are going to treat humanity. If we don’t view humanity and the person around us as divine, if we don’t see that, then of course, we’re not going to treat them that way. Of course, people don’t treat trans people with respect. They don’t see us as part of God’s image because God was, male and female, He created them. So this book was really a stab at that, it uses some really easy theological concepts that are pretty common amongst mainliners. I’d say, even say like, even the Theo Bron out there, like the Wesley quad later that changed my life because it really just said if your experience drives you in, I mean, I guess the thing I took from all of my training growing up Christian is like, I was taught that my experience was the last thing I should consider. Then womanism and black liberation theology says, no, you should let your experience be your first indication of whether or not what you believe is working or not. By working, I mean, is it causing you to be filled with joy or is it causing you to feel awful and miserable? If it’s causing you to feel miserable, you should look at that at minimum.[BRANDY]But Kevin, God never promised us to be happy.[KEVIN]That’s true. I mean, sure. God never promised it, but I would like to have it for myself regardless of what y’all think God promised me. People say, God didn’t promise, I’m going to sound like a real hater, God didn’t promise us anything. In fact, I’m not looking for God to promise me anything anymore. I’m just like, God’s who is, for me, it’s like, that’s not a helpful concept that as if God is some personality out there with whom…
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