Stay ConnectedThe Ancestral Kitchen is a twice-monthly podcast hosted by Alison, a European town-dweller and Andrea, living on a family farm in northwest Washington state. Pull up a chair at the table and join us as we talk about eating, cooking and living with ancient ancestral food wisdom in a modern-world kitchen.
Find us here: http://ancestralkitchenpodcast.com
Podcast theme and audio production by Robert Michael Kay, find him at www.robertmichaelkay.com
Copyright: © Copyright 2025 Alison Kay & Andrea Huehnerhoff
How do you know if you are ancestral enough, and what really qualifies as "doing the thing"? Is there somebody out there with a list of ancestral things you need to be doing so you can "count" as being truly ancestral, or is it just a moving, non-linear line we are constantly progressing along with our intention and heart oriented the right way? It is this question, the always-haunting subject of imposter syndrome, and others that we are going to talk about today in this delightful interview with one of our podcast supporters and listeners, Jaycie, of Hazy River Homestead & Ranch in Idaho, USA.
Jaycie and Andrea both live off the grid with solar and generator power, and we had fun discussing some of the challenges that come with that lifestyle, as well as some of the benefits! You can see Jaycie's beautiful farm at www.hazyriverhomestead.com. This was a very early-morning call before the crack of dawn and it was a heart-warming, encouraging delight, so grab a hot beverage and let's settle in.
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Sign up to the pod's newsletter here.
Get a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains
Read our Guide to Milling Your Own Flour
Get all three of the podcast cookbooks
Wear our beautiful, sustainable merchandise
Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics
Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course
Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop: US here and UK here.
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Come join the podcast community! You can select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion group Find out more here!
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What we talk about:
The personal views and opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect our own personal views or opinions. We recognize that our guests are whole persons and this may include views we or our audience actively disagree with; our guests are invited to the show because we feel they have something valuable to share with us all, and we do not ask them to censor their personal views on air. Our sharing of their work is not necessarily an endorsement of their personal views.
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If you love the show, leave us a 5* reviews on Apple Podcasts:
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Resources:
You can find Mason and Jaycie at www.hazyriverhomestead.com
Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share
The podcast has a website here!
Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen
The podcast is on You Tube here
The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay
Beans, Beans, the magical fruit, the more you eat, the more you absorb valuable minerals and proteins, improve your cardiovascular function and the health of your arterial walls as well as cholesterol and fat absorption, boost your digestion and gut bacteria health, and enjoy an array of bright and colorful foods - but what about that other, turbulent side benefit?
In this explosive episode, we will break down, like an enzyme breaks down an oligosaccharide, the compounds in beans and the processes in your body that can cause the possible noxious side benefits, as well as what ancestral peoples did to deal with this - aside from cracking ancient jokes that never get old. We will discuss in detail a patented process purported to eliminate ALL of the potentially thunderous side-effects using only water, time and heat, and we will additionally talk about herbs that can be cooked or served alongside beans to quell the claps of cheeky applause.
There is a copious amount of additional material that I could only include in the show notes for reasons of being too inappropriate to read on air, and they can be found on our website, ancestralkitchenpodcast.com by clicking the Episodes drop-down. I tested the absolute technology limits with the length of show notes today and ran out of room on our podcast apps, so go and enjoy the mountains of links and additional text I put there for you to enjoy.
In this episode I hope you will find the critical information you need to understand the possible pitfalls of beans and where those pitfalls come from, and leave feeling confident in how to deal with them and enjoy not only beans, but all their benefits - and none of their possible sound effects. Researching this episode left me all the more in awe of the incredible, ancient value beans bring to our diet, and more determined than ever to include them in a variety of meals across the week without what the Bard called any "strange eruptions".
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Sign up to the pod's newsletter here.
Get a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains
Read our Guide to Milling Your Own Flour
Get all three of the podcast cookbooks
Wear our beautiful, sustainable merchandise
Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics
Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course
Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop: US here and UK here.
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Come join the podcast community! You can select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion group Find out more here!
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If you love the show, leave us a 5* reviews on Apple Podcasts:
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Resources:
Check the show notes for this episode on https://ancestralkitchenpodcast.com/category/podcast/ . Additional show note material doubles the content you see here! On the website you will also see the ancestral jokes alluded to in the episode, as well as the newspaper clippings from the Duke of Windsor's wedding including the advertisement for bile beans!
How long have humans been eating beans?
The Story of Beans in Mexican Cuisine
Karen Hurd’s research on beans and bile - story starts at about 8 minutes in
Bacteroides thetaiotaomicron utilization of RFO (raffinose family oligosaccharides)
The Rise and Fall of Çatalhöyük: A Neolithic Matriarchy?
Did Vikings and ancient Norse peoples eat beans?
When were potatoes introduced to England?
Does epazote reduce gassiness?
Epazote seeds from Mountain Rose Herbs (organic)
What does epazote do to beans? “Epazote’s ability to reduce gas production is thought to be due to its carminative properties. Carminatives are ingredients that help to relieve gas and bloating in the digestive system. Epazote’s carminative properties are believed to work by reducing the amount of gas produced by bacteria in the large intestine. This is achieved through the inhibition of the growth of gas-producing bacteria, as well as the reduction of the amount of oligosaccharides that are fermented. As a result, epazote can help to reduce the discomfort and bloating associated with eating beans.”
Sources - Garden Treasures (they do not sell online), Rancho Gordo, Hodmedods
Don't use hard water to soak beans
Rancho Gordo recipes on their website
The Best Hummus (it really is! The process is magic)
Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share
The podcast has a website here!
Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen
The podcast is on You Tube here
The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay
What foods will you find in an ancestral pantry in a modern world kitchen? Today we will share some of the foods we store in our pantries to keep our regional, from-scratch meals on the table on a daily basis, as well as talk about modern tools that help us to turn some inexpensive, bulk raw products into value-added products. We will travel back in time to visit ancient and old pantries and look at what people were eating and how they were storing it, and we will also talk about ancient tools, some of which we still use today.
Supporters of the pod can check their private podcast feed for an aftershow where we share some of the foods we used to keep in our pantries “Before” ancestral food; and, everyone can check the show notes here for some of our favorite resources for reading about pantries and food in times past.
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Sign up to the pod's newsletter here.
Get a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains
Read our Guide to Milling Your Own Flour
Get all three of the podcast cookbooks
Wear our beautiful, sustainable merchandise
Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics
Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course
Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop: US here and UK here.
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Come join the podcast community! You can select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion group Find out more here!
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If you love the show, leave us a 5* reviews on Apple Podcasts:
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Resources:
For the photos and descriptions mentioned in the show, see our show notes at www.ancestralkitchenpodcast.com
Ruth Goodman video, “What the Tudors really ate”
Food in History, Reay Tannahill
Five Children and It, E. Nesbit
The Diary of a Farmer’s Wife 1796 - 1797, Anne Hughes
Food In England, Dorothy Hartley
Lost Country Life, Dorothy Hartley
The Domestic Revolution, Ruth Goodman
Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share
The podcast has a website here!
Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen
The podcast is on You Tube here
The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay
Fat is one of the cornerstones of ancestral eating. But getting hold of good saturated fat is not easy and can be eye-wateringly expensive. Making it at home, as Andrea and I do, you can cut your costs incredibly and also feel sure of the provenance and processing.
This episode will talk you through everything you need to know about rendering fat. We'll explain the different types of fats, their names, their properties and how you can use them. We'll then demystify the ways you can render fat in your kitchen, no matter what equipment you have, giving you step-by-step instructions. We'll clarify how you'll know your fat is done, what to do with the leftovers, how to clean up, the many different ways you can store your fat and how to know if it's gone bad.
This episode is peppered with real questions from real ancestral cooks about fat rendering – thank you to every supporter who sent in their query.
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Sign up to the pod's newsletter here.
Get a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains
Read our Guide to Milling Your Own Flour
Get all three of the podcast cookbooks
Wear our beautiful, sustainable merchandise
Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics
Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course
Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop: US here and UK here.
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Come join the podcast community! You can select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion group Find out more here!
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If you love the show, leave us a 5* reviews on Apple Podcasts:
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Resources:
How to render lard in a slow cooker
7 ways to use lard (including a lard crackling spread recipe)
Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share
The podcast has a website here!
Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen
The podcast is on You Tube here
The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay
When Alison and I were starting this podcast, she asked who was on my dream list of people to talk to. I said Tara Couture of Slowdown Farmstead and today that is what happened. In an incredibly long and appropriately slow morning we sat down together to talk for the first time and it was like visiting with an old friend I had waited a very long time to see again. Tara once shared her life on Instagram and I followed her avidly there, listening to her wisdom both practical and philosophical on butchery and growing and shifting, and how in the midst of life we are in death. Taking words from the screen to the printed page, Tara recently wrote a book, Radiance of the Ordinary. Since I had dropped off social media and Tara soon would herself, I was no longer reading her words, so when my copy arrived in the mail it felt like unwrapping a long-awaited, much anticipated letter from a beloved mentor.
In this episode we discussed many things including what does it look like to be living life at a human pace, as a human, in an ever-increasingly inhumane world? Is it even possible or practical to be a human in a world that expects you to be, and treats you as, a machine? Tara and I went through a lot of tea and boza over this long conversation so I invite you to settle in and join in with us, and let's be human together.
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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.
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Sign up to the pod's newsletter here.
Get a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains
Read our Guide to Milling Your Own Flour
Get all three of the podcast cookbooks
Wear our beautiful, sustainable merchandise
Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics
Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course
Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop: US here and UK here.
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Come join the podcast community! You can select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion group Find out more here!
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The personal views and opinions of our guests do not necessarily reflect our own personal views or opinions. We recognize that our guests are whole persons and this may include views we or our audience actively disagree with; our guests are invited to the show because we feel they have something valuable to share with us all, and we do not ask them to censor their personal views on air. Our sharing of their work is not necessarily an endorsement of their personal views.
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If you love the show, leave us a 5* reviews on Apple Podcasts:
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Resources:
Slowdown Farmstead | Tara | Substack
Radiance of the Ordinary by Tara Couture
Against the Machine by Paul Kingsnorth
Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share
The podcast has a website here!
Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen
The podcast is on You Tube here
The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay
Humans have been eating porridge (of which the American oatmeal is just one example) for, as you’ll hear, at least 32,000 years (that places it comfortably in the ‘paleo diet’ era!) Listen in to hear us cover just some of the history of this word and the comforting dish associated with it, as well as taking a tour of the many, many ways it is made throughout the world. Then we’ll focus in on oats - sharing surprising ways in which oat porridge has been served and eaten in the United Kingdom. We'll also explain the different types of oats used, the best ways to cook porridge and the myriad ways you can serve it.
If you love a bowl of steaming, creamy oatmeal, get ready to wrap your hands around this enlightening, inspiring episode.
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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.
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Sign up to the pod's newsletter here.
Get a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains
Read our Guide to Milling Your Own Flour
Get all three of the podcast cookbooks
Wear our beautiful, sustainable merchandise
Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics
Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course
Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop: US here and UK here.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Come join the podcast community! You can select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion group Find out more here!
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If you love the show, leave us a 5* reviews on Apple Podcasts:
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Resources:
Different Types of Oats and How to Use Each the Traditional Way
How to Roll Your Own Oats (and 3 Good Reasons to do It!)
Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share
The podcast has a website here!
Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen
The podcast is on You Tube here
The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay
Everybody always wants to know - is a nourishing diet an elitist, privileged ideal, inaccessible to people without a huge budget, and only for the super wealthy? In this episode we are going to share five complete meals. Each meal serves a family of five, and each complete meal can be made for about $5USD (£3.71GBP).
Balancing these inexpensive meals against the more expensive meals that can turn up in an ancestral menu is one way you can bring the overall annual food budget down. You can make all five of these menus, combined, for less than it would cost to take your family of five out one time for the cheapest option at McDonald’s - and that’s not even accounting for the life-giving, health-sustaining benefits of your nourishing meals.
Each of these menus has an option for gluten-free and dairy-free, if they aren’t already, and they can also be made ahead, prepped ahead, or even frozen or canned for absolutely speedy preparation. We’ve shared a few books rich in ideas at the end of the episode, and supporters can find our notes for this rather note-heavy episode in a download available at ancestralkitchenpodcast.com.
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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.
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Sign up to the pod's newsletter here.
Get a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains
Read our Guide to Milling Your Own Flour
Get all three of the podcast cookbooks
Wear our beautiful, sustainable merchandise
Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics
Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course
Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop: US here and UK here.
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Come join the podcast community! You can select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion group Find out more here!
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What We Cover:
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If you love the show, leave us a 5* reviews on Apple Podcasts:
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Resources:
Extra Recipes
Books
Further Reading
Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share
The podcast has a website here!
Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen
The podcast is on You Tube here
The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay
Sausages, bacon, crackling – good pork can be heavenly food. But both of us know that, sometimes, in the ancestral food world, pork is viewed as the poorer cousin to grass-fed beef or pastured chicken. That needn't be the case and this episode will put real pork where it deserves to be - at the centre of our plates. We'll give you some fascinating history bites, we'll talk about how the Industrial Revolution changed mainstream pigs, and we will lay out how buying real, pastured, pork is a positive, health-giving and delicious choice for you and those you love. Expect to be inspired by hearing us talk about the many ways we cook the products of the pig, from the nose to the tail.
This episode is accompanied by a fabulous pork cookbook which we've gifted, as a thank you, to all our current supporters. So if you're a supporter do go check your email. The book, with over 25 pork recipes is also available to buy from the podcast's shop, you purchasing a copy will be directly supporting Andrea and I to continue this work. Find it here:
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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.
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Sign up to the pod's newsletter here.
Get a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains
Read our Guide to Milling Your Own Flour
Get all three of the podcast cookbooks
Wear our beautiful, sustainable merchandise
Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics
Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course
Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop: US here and UK here.
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Come join the podcast community! You can select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion group Find out more here!
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If you love the show, leave us a 5* reviews on Apple Podcasts:
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Resources:
Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share
The podcast has a website here!
Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen
The podcast is on You Tube here
The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay
Why eat local? What if it isn’t easy? What if the things I want aren't available? What's the point? Alison and I have both considered these questions for ourselves and factored them into decisions that we’ve made about how we live our everyday lives. We didn’t make the changes overnight, and we don’t even suggest people do so. After the many books we have read, the real-life experiences we have had, and guests we have interviewed on the subject of factory farming vs humane peasant farming, we have come to some conclusions about eating local that might surprise you. They might not be the conclusions or the “arguments” you were expecting.
This episode features an aftershow which could possibly be described as a little bit salty, where some spicier opinions came to the fore. It was impossible to include everything we had to say and keep the main episode at a reasonable length of time. If you want to hear this aftershow as well as over 140 other episodes on our more informal, private podcast Kitchen Table Chats, hop over to ancestralkitchenpodcast.com/join and join at companionship or above level. Thank you for your continued support and to all the supporters, reviewers and listeners who made this episode possible.
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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.
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Sign up to the pod's newsletter here.
Get a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains
Read our Guide to Milling Your Own Flour
Get all three of the podcast cookbooks
Wear our beautiful, sustainable merchandise
Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics
Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course
Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop: US here and UK here.
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Come join the podcast community! You can select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion group Find out more here!
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What We Covered:
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If you love the show, leave us a 5* reviews on Apple Podcasts:
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Resources:
https://ancestralkitchen.com/2021/01/04/everyday-wholegrain-sourdough-rye-loaf/
Or
https://ancestralkitchen.com/2025/04/14/how-to-make-sourdough-rye-bread-from-scratch/
Each of the episodes mentioned here includes an entirely packed show notes of further reading and links on that specific topic!
Suggested Reading
His goal [with this book] is to:
• Empower food buyers to pursue positive alternatives to the industrialized food system
• Bring clean food farmers and their patrons into a teamwork relationship
• Marry the best of western technology with the soul of eastern ethics
• Educate food buyers about productions
• Create a food system that enhances nature’s ecology for future generations"
Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share
The podcast has a website here!
Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen
The podcast is on You Tube here
The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay
Back in episode 117, we gave you 26 nuggets of ancestral wisdom. We’ve got more. Another 24 to be precise. And just because these are in this second episode doesn’t mean they are any less important!
Over the next hour, on opposite sides of the Atlantic, with cups of tea in our hands we'll be channelling our great-grandma wisdom and bringing you some ancestral truths relating to food, creativity, family, health, work and life.
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One Earth Health make the grass-fed organ supplements we use and trust. Get 15% off your first order here and 5% off all subsequent orders here.
For US listeners, we recommend Grand Teton Ancient Grains. They sell regenerative, organic flours and berries that can satisfy all your baking needs. Stock up and get free shipping at AncientGrains.com
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Sign up to the pod's newsletter here.
Get a free 30-page guide to Baking with Ancient Grains
Read our Guide to Milling Your Own Flour
Get all three of the podcast cookbooks
Wear our beautiful, sustainable merchandise
Alison's course, Rye Sourdough Bread: Mastering The Basics
Alison's Sowans oat fermentation course
Visit our (non-Amazon!) bookshop: US here and UK here.
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Come join the podcast community! You can select from a variety of levels with benefits including monthly live calls, a private podcast feed stuffed with bonus content, and a Discord discussion group Find out more here!
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If you love the show, leave us a 5* reviews on Apple Podcasts:
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Resources:
Alison’s original blog post, 50 Things an Ancestral Lifestyle Has Taught Me
Against the Machine by Paul Kingsnorth
Episode 87: Taking Your Health in Your Own Hands
Episode 56: Preparing Nutrient-Dense Meals From Scratch Every Day
Episode 12: Why I Gave Away My iPhone
Link to supporter extra:
Kitchen Table Chats Podcast Episode 31: Tasting Training with Lizzy Filoramo
Do you have memories, documents, recipes or stories of those who cooked ancestrally? Visit our website here for how to share
The podcast has a website here!
Stay in touch with Alison via her newsletter at Ancestral Kitchen
The podcast is on You Tube here
The podcast is mixed and the music created by Alison's husband, Rob. Find him here: Robert Michael Kay
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