A Very OK Podcast

The Choctaw Code Talkers Nov 19, 2024

During World War I, it was common for the German military to tap Allied communications lines along the western front. Seeking to find a way to communicate that could not be interpreted by the enemy, the commander of the 36th Infantry’s 142nd Regiment enlisted Choctaw soldiers to send messages in their native language. The result led to successful operations in the Meuse-Argonne Offensive, which ultimately pushed the Germans out of France and ended the war. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the history and legacy of the Choctaw Code Talkers. Their guest is Sarah Elisabeth Sawyer, author of the book, “Anumpa Warrior: Choctaw Code Talkers of World War I.”

The California Road Oct 15, 2024

After gold was discovered in California in 1848, Americans flocked to the west coast to make their fortunes. In 1849, Congress instructed Captain Randolph Marcy to find a suitable passage from Fort Smith to Santa Fe by traveling south of the Canadian River. Guided by Delaware scout Black Beaver, Marcy and the first wagon train reached their destination in June 1849. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the people on the journey, conditions encountered along the way, and some of the interesting geographical features the group discovered. Their guest is Art Peters, curator at the Hinton Historical Museum and author of three books about the California Road in Caddo County.

Impeachment Sep 17, 2024

Since statehood, numerous elected officials have found themselves on the wrong side of the Oklahoma Legislature’s good graces, which resulted in impeachment charges being filed. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss Oklahoma’s constitutional requirements for impeachment, some of the officials who have been impeached in the state over the years, and the charges leveled against them. Their guest is former Oklahoma Senator Cal Hobson, who served in the legislature from 1978–2005 and was president pro tempore during the impeachment of Oklahoma Insurance Commissioner Carroll Fisher in 2004.

47 in a Row Aug 20, 2024

From 1953 to 1957, University of Oklahoma football coach Bud Wilkinson and his Sooners won 47 games in a row, an NCAA record. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss Coach Wilkinson and his leadership skills, the players who made the winning streak possible, and a few of the significant games along the way. Their guest is Berry Tramel, a 46-year veteran sports journalist who has written for The Norman Transcript and The Oklahoman. He now writes for the Tulsa World.

Television Comes to Oklahoma Jun 18, 2024

Crowds came by the thousands to Municipal Auditorium in Oklahoma City to see the first television images in Oklahoma at a demonstration sponsored by WKY Radio on November 13, 1939. Despite television being a financial drain on broadcasters who had tried it before, E.K. Gaylord believed Oklahoma deserved it, so he applied for a license and was granted the first station in Oklahoma. On June 6, 1949, at 7 p.m., WKY-TV went on the air. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss how the new technology was embraced by the Gaylords, the popular shows and personalities on WKY-TV and later KFOR, and the impact television has made on Oklahoma. Their guest is Wes Milbourn, vice president and station manager at KFOR.

The Birth of the State Park System May 21, 2024

Oklahoma was a state for almost thirty years before the state park system was created. Thanks to federal funds and free labor provided by the Civilian Conservation Corps, seven new state parks were constructed starting in 1935. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the political conditions that led to Oklahoma creating the State Park Commission, the invaluable work of the CCC, and lasting impact of the parks. Their guest is Dr. Matthew Pearce, State Historian for the Oklahoma Historical Society.

200 Years of Fort Gibson and Fort Towson Apr 17, 2024

In February 1824, the general-in-chief of the Army authorized the abandonment of Fort Smith and the creation of a new fort in the southwest. Col. Matthew Arbuckle selected a site near the Three Forks and named it Cantonment Gibson. Its mission was to protect white settlers, work for peace between tribes in the region, and establish a diplomatic relationship with Plains tribes. A few months later, Maj. Alexander Cummings established Cantonment Towson near the Kiamichi and Red rivers with a mission of protecting the international border and later, serving as a buffer between the Choctaw and Plains tribes. In this episode, we discuss the important role each fort played as well as what daily life was like for those stationed there. Our guests on this episode are Jennifer Frazee, director at Fort Gibson Historic Site, and Calista Stephens, director at Fort Towson Historic Site.

The Five Moons Mar 19, 2024

Maria Tallchief, Marjorie Tallchief, Yvonne Chouteau, Moscelyne Larkin, and Rosella Hightower were all American Indian women, born in Oklahoma during the 1920s, who went on to become prima ballerinas. Nicknamed the “Five Moons,” they achieved the pinnacle of success in their respective ballet careers, making their marks in America and on the international stage. They were named Oklahoma Cultural Treasures in 1997 and a beautiful mural in the state capitol, Flight of Spirit, pays tribute to them. Our guest on this episode is writer, director, actor, and dancer, Russ Tallchief, who is also the great nephew of Maria and Marjorie Tallchief.

Jazz in Oklahoma Feb 20, 2024

The confluence of cultures in Oklahoma, from Blacks who arrived as enslaved persons from the southeastern United States to European immigrants, created the ideal environment for the musical form known as jazz to take root. Jazz performers such as Charlie Christian, the Oklahoma City Blue Devils, and the Ernie Fields Orchestra made their mark on the genre starting out in small clubs located in Tulsa’s Greenwood and Oklahoma City’s Deep Deuce districts and later traveling to New York, Chicago, St. Louis, and Los Angeles. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss Oklahoma’s early jazz scene and interview Carmen Fields, author of Going Back to T-Town: The Ernie Fields Territory Big Band. Ms. Fields discusses her father’s legacy, the musicians in the orchestra, his hits, and her brother, Ernie Fields Jr.

The 1965 Oklahoma Supreme Court Scandal Jan 16, 2024

In 1964, Oklahoma Supreme Court Justice N.S. Corn was convicted on federal income tax evasion charges. While incarcerated, he provided testimony implicating himself, Justice Earl Welch, and Justice N.B. Johnson in a scheme to accept bribes in exchange for affecting the decision in cases before the court. The resulting scandal cast a shadow over the court and resulted in an impeachment trial in the state legislature. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn explore the scandal and the environment that led to it. Their guest is Jari Askins, administrative director of the Courts and Lieutenant Governor from 2007 to 2011.

Two Worldviews in Conflict Dec 19, 2023

The Cherokee Nation lived in their ancestral homelands in the eastern United States for centuries before the first arrival of Europeans on American soil in the 1500s. As settlers arrived in larger numbers, the Cherokees were forced to cede or sell their lands, first to the British government and then to the United States through successive treaties. This ultimately led to the forced removal of the Cherokee Nation to Indian Territory in the 1830s. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the events and significant court cases that paved the way for Cherokee removal west of the Mississippi River. Their guests are Jack Baker, Cherokee historian and citizen of the Cherokee Nation, and Lindsay Robertson, professor emeritus of Native American Law at the University of Oklahoma.

A Conversation Between Governors Nov 21, 2023

To commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Oklahoma Territorial Museum in Guthrie, the Daughters of the American Revolution hosted a fireside chat between former governors Brad Henry (2003–2011) and George Nigh (1979–1987) at the Guthrie Scottish Rite Temple in October 2023. In a conversation moderated by Trait Thompson and Michael Williams, registrar and collections specialist at the Oklahoma Territorial Museum, the governors delved into a wide array of topics, including their views on public service, their accomplishments while in office, and bipartisanship. Both governors are great storytellers and the listener will gain critical insight into each man’s time at the helm of Oklahoma’s government.

Labor Omnia Vincit Oct 17, 2023

Oklahoma’s motto, Labor Omnia Vincit, means “work conquers all things.” Today, many people see it as a nod to the hardworking nature of our state’s citizens. In reality, it’s a tribute to organized labor, which was a significant political force in the formation of Oklahoma’s constitution and early laws. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the business and agricultural climate in the United States that led to the labor movement in Oklahoma starting in the 1880s. They also cover Oklahoma’s early political leaders such as Peter Hanraty, Charles Haskell, and Kate Barnard, who rose to power thanks to the support of labor organizations. Their guest is Bob Burke, an Oklahoma City attorney and historian who has written more historical non-fiction books than anyone else in history.

Making History on the Gridiron Sep 19, 2023

The 1956 Frederick Bombers were the first integrated high school football team to win a state championship in the United States. Coached by Dean Wild, a previous state champion at Watonga, the team of 12 Black players and 27 white players went 14-0 that year and beat Okmulgee Dunbar 33-0 in the Oklahoma Class B state championship game. Coach Wild’s decision to integrate the team two years after the Brown v. Board of Education decision was not popular with some local leaders, but the players developed a special bond that has spanned the decades since that magical season. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn speak to Danny Griffin, a running back on the team who was selected to the All-Area Southern Oklahoma team. Danny recounts his memories of growing up in Frederick and tells stories about his talented teammates.

A Little Freedom is a Dangerous Thing Aug 15, 2023

When Clara Luper and her students went to New York City in 1957 to perform her play, Brother President, they experienced integration for the first time. The trip opened their eyes to a new way of living and became the impetus to try to bring freedom to segregated Oklahoma. As the NAACP Youth Council leader and a well-respected teacher, Clara Luper brought 13 students to the lunch counter at Katz Drug Store on August 19, 1958, and waited to be served. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss Oklahoma’s history of segregation and the fortitude it took to bring change. Their guest is Marilyn Luper Hildreth, daughter of Clara Luper and longtime Civil Rights activist whose idea for the Katz Drug Store sit-in sparked a nationwide movement.

They Call the Thing Rodeo Jun 20, 2023

Rodeo in Oklahoma evolved from competitions between cowboys at ranches in the Oklahoma Panhandle in the 1880s to the professional sport of the modern era. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn explore the origin of rodeo in Oklahoma, the formation of the PRCA, and the impact the National Finals Rodeo made on Oklahoma City. Their guest is former president of Southwestern Oklahoma State University and Oklahoma Historical Society board member Randy Beutler. He discusses the formation of the Beutler Brothers stock contractors in 1929 and how they became the largest stock contractor in the country. Randy also talks about some of the famous rodeo broncs and bulls in Beutler Brothers history, along with the reputation of Beutler stock being “a cowboy’s worst nightmare.”

1883: Fact vs. Fiction May 16, 2023

Taylor Sheridan’s 1883, a gritty western prequel to his wildly successful Yellowstone series, captured the nation’s attention with its realistic portrayal of an emigrant journey across the US to Oregon. But, how real was it? In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn are joined by Kathy Dickson, director of museums and sites for the Oklahoma Historical Society, and Dr. Jason Harris, director of the Chisholm Trail Museum (now The Chisholm) in Kingfisher, to discuss what the show got right from a historical perspective and where it veered off the trail. Of particular interest were the scenes that took place in Indian Territory after the band of travelers crossed the Red River. Be warned! There are spoilers in this episode.

The People’s House Apr 18, 2023

The Oklahoma State Capitol is the temple of our democracy in Oklahoma, the place where people come to have their voice heard. Today, it’s hard to imagine the landscape without the grand edifice. Back in 1910, the cities of Guthrie and Oklahoma City jockeyed back and forth for the rights to the capital city delaying completion of Oklahoma government’s permanent home until 1917. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the history of the capitol and its resilience over the decades. Their guests are Bob Ross with the Inasmuch Foundation and film director Bryan Beasley. They discuss the new documentary film on the capitol that will be completed in May 2023.

Live Episode: The Life and Legacy of Bob Wills Mar 21, 2023

Bob Wills was born in Texas, but he and his Texas Playboys became a national sensation when they began playing live shows on KVOO from the legendary Cain’s Ballroom in Tulsa. Bob’s unique style of music blended folk, jazz, hillbilly, and blues to produce the sound we know today as Western Swing. His music is still as popular as ever and it is regularly covered by today’s top artists. In this live episode, recorded at Ponyboy in Oklahoma City, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn are joined by Carolyn Wills, Brett Bingham, John Wooley, and Jeff Moore. Special guest Kyle Dillingham performed “Milk Cow Blues” and “Faded Love” for the crowd.

Votes for Women! Feb 21, 2023

As the suffrage movement played out on the national stage with women like Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Alice Paul leading the charge, Oklahomans were also working to see the 19th Amendment passed and ratified. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the political landscape in Oklahoma and Indian Territories that initially rejected suffrage after 1890 along with their guest, Dr. Sunu Kodumthara from Southwestern Oklahoma State University. The trio expounds upon the contributions of Oklahoma suffragists such as Aloysius Larch-Miller, Narcissa Owen, and Kate Stafford that ultimately led to adoption of a state constitutional amendment in 1918 and the federal amendment in 1920. They also delve into the antisuffrage work of Alice Robertson, and Kate Barnard’s decision to forgo suffrage work in lieu of her other causes.

Retail Therapy Jan 17, 2023

Since prehistoric times, commerce has been one of the engines that made Oklahoma run. This began with the Indigenous peoples who lived at Spiro Mounds. They had a vast trade network and obtained goods from across the country, a practice that was continued by their descendants. In the 1700s, French traders moved into eastern Oklahoma, opening up trade to St. Louis and New Orleans. As towns began to develop, enterprising merchants provided goods that were in demand such as salt, lumber, banking services, and food. Later, iconic stores such as Anthony’s, OTASCO, and TG&Y met the needs of the consumer. Our guest on this episode is Ed Threatt Sr.—grandson of Allen Threatt Sr., who opened the only known Black-owned business on Route 66, the Threatt Filling Station, in 1915. The station became a haven for Black travelers on the Mother Road. Today, the Threatt family is working to restore the building and educate travelers on the importance of this historic filling station.

Higher and Faster Nov 15, 2022

In this episode, OHS executive director Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn are joined by Oklahoma History Center director Dan Provo to discuss Oklahomans who contributed to the space program in the 1960s and 1970s. In 1961, when President Kennedy challenged Americans to land a man on the moon by the end of the decade, Oklahomans answered the call. Because of people like Gordon Cooper, Owen Garriott, and Bill Pogue, the first lunar landing was successful in 1969. Our special guest on the podcast is Gen. Thomas Stafford. Stafford grew up in Weatherford and was a commander on the Gemini IX and Apollo X flights in addition to the Apollo-Soyuz Test Project, which is credited for easing tensions between the US and USSR. He also holds the Guinness Book of World Records entry for the highest re-entry speed of any manned space flight, which was achieved during Apollo X.

Cultivating Cultural Tourism in Oklahoma Oct 18, 2022

In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn talk with special guest Lieutenant Governor Matt Pinnell about the importance of cultural tourism in Oklahoma. After discussing some of their favorite historic places in the state, the crew talks about the evolution of the Oklahoma Historical Society from an entity that solely collects artifacts to one that also oversees the operation of important sites across the state. The lieutenant governor examines the successes Oklahoma has had by playing to its strengths and how the OHS plays a key role in bringing new visitors to the state.

Brother, Can You Spare a Dime? Sep 20, 2022

When the economy cratered with the stock market crash in October 1929, Oklahomans had already been feeling the effects of an economic depression for several years due to falling agriculture and oil prices. The onset of the Dust Bowl in western Oklahoma and the rejection of the New Deal by the state’s political leadership exacerbated the effects of the Great Depression. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn talk about the impact of the Great Depression on Oklahoma. Their guest is Dr. Al Turner, historian and producer of the documentary film Dust to Eat.

Our Good Angel, Kate Aug 15, 2022

Kate Barnard may have shaped the early history of Oklahoma more than any other figure. She convinced the delegates to the Oklahoma Constitutional Convention to create the office of commissioner of charities and corrections, a position with the authority to investigate the conditions of prisons, orphanages, hospitals, and other public institutions. She was elected the first commissioner in 1907, one of the first women in the country to hold statewide elected office. She used her power to advocate on behalf of orphans, the poor, people with disabilities, and the incarcerated. Her crusade for justice on behalf of Indigenous orphans, however, proved to be her undoing. Our guest on this episode is Connie Cronley, author of A Life on Fire: Oklahoma’s Kate Barnard.

Pawnee Bill and May Lillie’s Wild West Jun 21, 2022

In the late 19th century, traveling Wild West shows became a popular form of entertainment. One of the largest and most successful Wild West shows was created by Gordon W. “Pawnee Bill” Lillie and his wife, May, in 1888. It later merged with Buffalo Bill’s show and continued until 1913. In this podcast, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the climate that led to the creation of Wild West shows, the impact that Gordon Lillie made on the genre, and May Lillie’s role as performer, business partner, wife, and mother. They are joined by Ronny Brown, site director at Pawnee Bill Ranch and Museum, and Anna Davis, historical interpreter at Pawnee Bill Ranch and Museum.

Killing of Umpire Forbidden May 17, 2022

The game of baseball has a rich history in Oklahoma. From the first organized game in 1882 in Indian Territory to town league teams to the pros, Oklahomans have made their mark on the game. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn explore how baseball made its way to Oklahoma, the significance of those early teams, and Oklahomans who are now enshrined in the Baseball Hall of Fame. They are joined by Chad Williams, director of Research for the Oklahoma Historical Society and baseball superfan. Chad discusses his love for the game and how baseball lovers can dive into the OHS archives to find first-hand documents and photos about the boys of summer in Oklahoma.

Lawlessness and Law Enforcement in the 1920s and ‘30s Apr 19, 2022

The advent of the automobile gave lawbreakers the ability to commit crimes and evade local law enforcement. During the 1920s and 1930s, bank robberies and kidnappings became all too common in Oklahoma. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the rise of notorious criminals and how the state created new agencies to enforce the law. Their guest, Leigh Dudley from the Federal Judicial Learning Center and Museum, tells the story of Charles Urschel’s 1933 kidnapping by Machine Gun Kelly.

At War With Corruption Mar 15, 2022

From the mid-1960s through the early 1980s, several major corruption scandals rocked the halls of government in Oklahoma. Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the political climate in Oklahoma that fostered the atmosphere for corruption to develop. Their guest is Bill Price, former US Attorney for the Western District of Oklahoma, who prosecuted crooked county commissioners and materials suppliers in one of the biggest scandals in US history.

Live Episode: Oklahoma’s All-Black Towns Feb 15, 2022

Oklahoma had more than 50 All-Black towns at one time, more than any other state. A special panel of guests discusses the history of some of the towns and efforts being made today to revitalize them. Trait Thompson and Larry O’Dell from the Oklahoma Historical Society are joined by Shirley Nero from Clearview, Henrietta Hicks from Boley, and Sen. Kevin Matthews from Tulsa for an enlightening conversation.

Battle of the Washita Jan 18, 2022

After the Civil War, increased westward migration resulted in escalating violent conflict between the Plains Indian tribes protecting their ancestral lands and the new settlers. The 1867 Medicine Lodge Treaty failed to quell the violence, which resulted in Maj. Gen. Philip Sheridan’s new strategy of attacking the tribes in their winter camps. In November 1868, Lt. Col. George Custer’s troops marched out of Camp Supply and initiated a surprise attack on Cheyenne Peace Chief Black Kettle’s village on the Washita River. The battle, also referred to as a massacre, was the opening salvo in the US Army’s five-month campaign to force the Cheyenne into living on reservations.

Oklahoma During World War II Dec 15, 2021

December 7, 2021, marked the 80th anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor. Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss how Oklahoma changed during World War II, and how the state was impacted for generations to come. Joe Todd, author of USS Oklahoma: Remembrance of a Great Lady, joins them and shares many stories that he has collected from Oklahoma’s World War II veterans.

Oklahoma in the 1950s Nov 17, 2021

The post-World War II 1950s in Oklahoma was a coming-of-age era for a state that would celebrate its 50th birthday in 1957. From transportation to civil rights to the arts and sciences, Oklahoma’s advancement accelerated during this pivotal decade. Former Governor George Nigh joins Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn for the entire episode to discuss his recollections of this era and share stories that only he can tell.

The Battle of Honey Springs Oct 20, 2021

The Battle of Honey Springs was the largest and most important Civil War battle in Indian Territory. The battle returned control of Indian Territory to Union forces, and is also significant because the majority of the combatants were Native American and Black. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn welcome Adam Lynn, director of the Honey Springs Battlefield historic site, as their special guest to discuss the important events of July 17, 1863.

A Very OK Podcast + BrainBox LIVE Crossover Event Sep 24, 2021

OHS Executive Director Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn of the OHS’s A Very OK Podcast and Dr. Sunu Kodumthara of OH’s BrainBox lead a conversation about growing up in Oklahoma from multiple cultural perspectives—featuring special guests Kelli Brooke Haney and Javier Hernandez. This crossover episode was recorded in front of a live audience.

Oklahoma’s Early Aviation History Aug 19, 2021

Since the inception of the aviation age, Oklahomans have made major contributions to the science of flight. In this episode, Trait Thompson and Dr. Blackburn discuss the early days of flight in Oklahoma and the notable Oklahomans such as Wiley Post, James Banning, and the Cessna brothers who left their marks in the history books. They also interview Randy Vierling, a longtime TWA pilot, who tells the story of a harrowing experience he had while piloting an airplane through a storm early in his career.

Soldiers, Ranchers and Outlaws (1866–1907) Jul 21, 2021

After the Civil War, Oklahoma played a major role in cattle ranching and the development of the frontier. Trait Thompson and Dr. Bob Blackburn discuss the people who made an impact during this critical time in history. They are joined by author and scholar Art Burton, who discusses the Buffalo Soldiers, Bass Reeves, and one of Indian Territory’s most notorious outlaws.

Fore! The History of Golf in Oklahoma Jun 16, 2021

In this episode, we explore who brought golf to Oklahoma and where the first courses were located. We also discuss Oklahomans who made their mark in golf course architecture and women’s golf, and an Oklahoman who broke the color barrier in the PGA. Our guest is Steve Carson, Director of Golf at Lincoln Park Golf Course in Oklahoma City, which will be celebrating its centennial in 2022.

The 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre May 19, 2021

The horrific race massacre that took place in Tulsa during the evening and morning hours of May 31–June 1, 1921, still echoes through history. Trait and Bob discuss what happened during those fateful hours and how Oklahoma can begin to heal as the 100th anniversary approaches. Phil Armstrong, project director for the 1921 Tulsa Race Massacre Centennial Commission, joins in the discussion.

What is Spiro? Apr 21, 2021

Trait and Bob welcome Dennis Peterson, director of the Spiro Mounds Archaeological Center, into the studio to discuss the Mississippian mound-building culture prevalent around Spiro, Oklahoma, from 700 to 1500 CE.

Women In Broadcasting Mar 16, 2021

Welcome to A Very OK Podcast reboot! In this episode, Trait and Bob explore the early days of television broadcasting in Oklahoma—with a special focus on the role of women. They also welcome Joyce Jackson into the studio for an in-depth discussion about her experiences as the first Black woman on one of Oklahoma's local television stations.

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