18Forty Podcast

Latest Episodes:

Steven Gotlib: Some Rabbi Grapples With His Faith [Rationality 2/4] Jun 21, 2022

Show notes

In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we talk to Rabbi Steven Gotlib, a fellow at Beit Midrash Zichron Dov and Rabbinic Educator at the Village Shul, about the relationship between first principles and how we are to live.
Rabbi Gotlib is some rabbi who is a lot more than just some rabbi. Steven has thought long and hard about the truth claims of Judaism and the claim Judaism makes on individuals’ lives.
•How does a Conservative Jewish teenager turn into an Orthodox rabbi and outreach professional?
•Should the pursuit of truth override pragmatism?
•What factors should go into someone’s decision to be Orthodox?
•Should experiential knowledge take precedence over rational arguments?
Tune in to hear a conversation about the path and process of a rabbi’s struggle with faith and philosophy.
Interview begins at 15:37.
Rabbi Steven Gotlib received rabbinic ordination from the Rabbi Isaac Elchanan Theological Seminary, certificates in Mental Health Counseling and Spiritual Entrepreneurship, and a BA in Communication and Jewish Studies from Rutgers University.
Read his review on Lehrhaus of the book, "Strauss, Spinoza, and Sinai: Orthodox Judaism and Modern Questions of Faith," titled “(How) Can we Know Orthodox Judaism is True?” (https://thelehrhaus.com/timely-thoughts/how-can-we-know-orthodox-judaism-is-true/#)
References:
Torah Umadda by Rabbi Norman Lamm
Another Way, Another Time: Religious Inclusivism and the Sacks Chief Rabbinate by Meir Persoff
Mystical Experience of God: A Philosophical Inquiry by Jerome Gellman
The Principles of Judaism by Samuel Lebens
God in Search of Man: A Philosophy of Judaism by Abraham Joshua Heschel
And from There You Shall Seek by Joseph B. Soloveitchik
Nefesh HaChayim by Chaim of Volozhin
Tanya by Shneur Zalman of Liadi
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Jeff Bloom: Some Guy Wrote a Book about Jewish Theology [Rationality 1/4] Jun 14, 2022

Show notes

In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we talk to Jeff Bloom about the assumptions that Orthodox Judaism makes about ideology, and how we ground our faith even if we don’t have irrefutable evidence.
Jeff is some guy who is a lot more than just some guy. Jeff unpacks Leo Strauss’s defense of Orthodoxy and explains how our personal life stories dictate how we see the world.
- Why have we designed a system in which we don’t rummage around assumptions?
- How do we read the Bible in an Orthodox lens?
- Is Orthodoxy merely a warm infrastructure or is it a rationally grounded approach to life?
Tune in to hear a conversation about intellectual authenticity and the axioms of belief.
Interview begins at 14:25
Jeffrey Bloom is a graduate of the University of Chicago. After college, he studied in a number of Orthodox yeshivot in Israel and now lives with his wife and family in New Jersey. He works as an analyst at a hedge fund and is the co-editor of Strauss, Spinoza & Sinai: Orthodox Judaism and Modern Questions of Faith. To get an entry point into Jeff’s thinking, read his thoughtful introduction to the book, and once you are there, check out Jeremy Kagan’s thought-provoking article on the history of rational thinking as well as the crucial conclusion to the work, accessible here.
References:
18Forty - Samuel Lebens: The Line Between Rationality and Mysticism
18Forty - Zohar Atkins: Between Philosophy and Torah
18Forty - Simi Peters: Building New Faith Foundations
18Forty - Shmuel Phillips: Reclaiming Judaism
18Forty - Anxiety and Rationality: A Personal Anonymous Account
Strauss, Spinoza & Sinai: Orthodox Judaism and Modern Questions of Faith edited by Jeffery Bloom, Alec Goldstein & Gil Student
Judaism Straight Up by Moshe Koppel
“Children of Skeptics” by Thomas Merrill
Apples of Gold in Pictures of Silver: Honoring the Work of Leon R. Kass edited by Yuval Levin, Thomas W. Merrill and Adam Schulman
18Forty - Agnes Callard: A Philosophy of Change
“An Argument for Businessmen” by Shalom Carmy
Permission to Believe: Four Rational Approaches to God's Existence by Lawrence Kelemen
Permission to Receive by Lawrence Kelemen
Reason To Believe: Rational Explanations of Orthodox Jewish Faith by Chaim Jachter
Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy by John le Carré
Ani Maamin: Biblical Criticism, Historical Truth, and the Thirteen Principles of Faith by Joshua Berman
The Beginning of Wisdom: Reading Genesis by Leon Kass
Founding God's Nation: Reading Exodus by Leon Kass
The Revelation at Sinai: What Does “Torah from Heaven” Mean? by Gil Student and Yoram Hazony
Jewish Self: Recovering Spirituality in the Modern World by Jeremy Kagan
The Choice to Be: A Jewish Path to Self and Spirituality by Jeremy Kagan
The Intellect and the Exodus: Authentic Emuna for a Complex Age by Jeremy Kagan
“The Nature and Pursuit of Truth in Different Cultural Context” by Jeremy Kagan
The book of Daniel
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Listener Questions Jun 07, 2022

Show notes

In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we listen to voicemails sent in by you, our listeners, and reflect on the community we have built beyond our conversations.
- What do Pick-Up Sticks have in common with the sorites paradox?
- How has wealth seeped into our subconscious Jewish intergenerational trauma?
- Does an accusation of abuse have the potential to ruin someone’s life even if they’re not convicted?
Tune in to hear a conversation about leaky roofs, trench coats, and bobbing boats.
Voicemails begin at 11:42.
References:
Saturday Night Live - Father-Son Podcasting Microphone
BoJack Horseman
The Little Rascals
Introduction to Love's Executioner : & Other Tales of Psychotherapy by Irvin D. Yalom
18Forty - Alex Edelman: Taking Comedy Seriously: Purim
Megillat Esther
Megillat Eicha
Tinyana, Likutei Moharan by Rebbe Nachman of Breslov
Pachad Yitzchak by Rabbi Yitzchak Hutner
Pirkei Avot 2:1
Frum/OTD Dialogue
Respectfully Debating Judaism
18Forty - Listener Questions and Behind the Scenes with The 18Forty Team
"The View from Pew: Where Do We Go from Here?"
18Forty - Rabbi Aryeh Lebowitz: A Healthy Relationship with Halacha
The Rav Rimon Bencher
18Forty - Larry And Tzipora Rothwachs: Here Without You — A Child’s Eating Disorder
18Forty - Rav Aaron Lopiansky: What Tribes Do You Contain Inside?
10 Minute Halacha
18Forty - Dr. Tamara Morsel-Eisenberg: Discovering Your Halachic Story
18Forty - Marika Feuerstein: The Mentsch of Malden Mills: A Granddaughter Reflects on the Life and Legacy of Aaron Feuerstein
"What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank" by Nathan Englander
Bad Jews by Joshua Harmon
18Forty - Aharon Schrieber: What Happens When You Call the Police?
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.

Shira Berkovits: Creating Safe Spaces [Abuse 3/3] May 24, 2022

Show notes

In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we talk to Shira Berkovits, president and CEO of Sacred Spaces, about institutional abuse awareness and prevention.
Shira is an attorney and psychologist, as well as the founder of Sacred Spaces, which partners with Jewish institutions to prevent and respond to sexual abuse and other abuses of power. Shira explains how Jewish institutions can better respond to and prevent abuse.
- What preventative measures can a Jewish institution take against abuse?
- Does religious affiliation make responding to incidents of abuse easier or harder?
- How do we begin to heal following incidents of abuse?
Tune in to hear a conversation about protecting our safe spaces.
Interview begins at 20:17.
Shira Berkovits is President and CEO of Sacred Spaces. A behavioral psychologist with a research background in creating large-scale organizational change, and an attorney specialized in criminal law, Shira has spent years studying the intersection of psychology and law as related to sexual offending in faith communities. Shira partners with Jewish leaders to build healthy and accountable institutions, working with a uniquely Jewish lens to foster sacredness and reduce the risk of harassment, abuse, and other interpersonal harm. Shira joins us to talk about creating and cultivating safe spaces in our communities.
If you or someone you know is a victim of domestic violence, please get help.
If you are in immediate danger or need emergency assistance, call 911.
Shalom Task Force Hotline: 718.337.3700; Toll Free: 888.883.2323
Jewish Board Of Family And Children’s Services Domestic Violence Services: 212.262.7655
New York Legal Assistance Group (NYLAG): 212.613.5000
References:
The Apostle
Doubt
“Crisis Change and the Continuous Art of Individual Interpretation and Negotiation: The Aftermath of Clerical Abuse in Newfoundland” by Marion Bowman
“God is at Stake: Crisis Communications Following Religious Leadership Crises” by David Bashevkin
Sin-a-gogue: Sin, and Failure in Jewish Thought by David Bashevkin
The Brothers Karamazov by Fyodor Dostoevsk
The Grand Inquisitor by Fyodor Dostoevsk
Sacred Spaces
“Institutional Abuse in the Jewish Community” by Shira Berkovits
Center for Court Innovation
The Innocence Project
The CDC-Kaiser Permanente Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) Study
Gundersen National Child Protection Training Center
2013 Resolution: Preventing Sexual Abuse in our Community
Aleinu Safeguarding Children Campaign
Keilim Policy Toolkit
The Office: "Search Committee" (Season 7, Episode 24)
“The 10 Best Practices”
“Institutional Child Sexual Abuse—Not Just a Catholic Thing” by Kelly Clark
Leviticus 18
Australian Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse
“I Was Shamed and Shunned for Revealing My Abuse” by Ruth Krevsky
Mishna Torah - Hilchot Teshuva by Maimonides
Stop It Now
What's OK?
Moore Center for the Prevention of Child Sexual Abuse
Genesis 27
The Child Safeguarding Policy Guide by Shira Berkovits and Basyle Tchividjian
“Preventing Child Sexual Abuse Within Youth-serving Organizations: Getting Started on Policies and Procedures”
“Debunking Common Myths”
Moed Katan 17a
Malachi 2:7
Kiddushin 54a
YUTorah
TorahAnytime
Additional Resources:
“Preventing Abuse in Jewish Organizations that Serve Youth: Ten Policies to Create Safer Environments” by Shira Berkovits
“Vayikra as a Model for Transparent Communal Governance” by Shira Berkovits, Esq., Ph.D. and Rabbi Steven Exler
“Closing the Gap in Best Practices for Prevention and Response to Sexual Abuse of Minors in Jewish Organizations”
“A Conversation on Safeguarding Youth in Jewish Communities” by Shira Berkovits and Daniella Pitkoff
Sacred Spaces Protocols for Safeguarding Children and Teens in Online Communication Training
Cheshbon Hanefesh Guide
Protocols for Safeguarding Children and Teens in Online Communications
“An Assessment of Menlo’s Church Report” by Zero Abuse Project and Sacred Spaces
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.

Rahel Bayar: Developing Healthy Boundaries [Abuse 2/3] May 17, 2022

Show notes

In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we talk to Rahel Bayar, founder of The Bayar Group, about abuse awareness and education in faith-based communities.
Due to the sensitive nature of this conversation, at times, this episode does contain mature language and listener discretion is advised.
Rahel is a former assistant district attorney and now runs The Bayar Group, which provides abuse training and serves as a consultant to organizations and institutions. Rahel helps us understand some of the difficult definitions we hear and discusses the importance of establishing boundaries in order to identify red flags.
- Why don't we see abuse before it happens?
- What can we do to establish healthy boundaries and prevent abuse?
- What conversations should we be having with our children to prevent and identify abuse?
Tune in to hear a conversation about education, boundaries, and abuse prevention.
Interview begins at 5:01.
Rahel Bayar is the CEO of the Bayar Group, a group that provides sexual abuse and harassment prevention training for schools, camps, and organizations to create lasting change. Rahel is a former sex crimes and child abuse prosecutor who has worked in the field of sexual misconduct and abuse prevention for over a decade. Rahel served as a Managing Director in the Sexual Misconduct Consulting & Investigations division of a global security and consulting firm, and spent many years as an Assistant District Attorney in both the Child Abuse/Sex Crimes and Domestic Violence Bureaus at the Bronx District Attorney’s office. Rahel is a sought-after speaker for her workshops on sexual misconduct, abuse prevention & detection, safe social media and electronic communication practices, boundary guidelines, and consent. Rahel joins us to talk about establishing healthy boundaries.
If you or someone you know is a victim of domestic violence, please get help.
If you are in immediate danger or need emergency assistance, call 911.
Shalom Task Force Hotline: 718.337.3700; Toll Free: 888.883.2323
Jewish Board Of Family And Children’s Services Domestic Violence Services: 212.262.7655
New York Legal Assistance Group (NYLAG): 212.613.5000
References:
Gittin 56B
The Bayar Group
Law and Order SVU
CSI
“I Started the Media Men List” by Moira Donegan
@Rahel.Bayar on Instagram
Your Whole Body by Lizzie Charbonneau
Consent (for Kids!): Boundaries, Respect, and Being in Charge of YOU by Rachel Brian
Kingdom Come by Mark Waid and Alex Ross
Maus by Art Spiegelman
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.

Aharon Schrieber: What Happens When You Call the Police? [Abuse 1/3] May 10, 2022

Show notes

In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we talk to ADA Aharon Schrieber about what actually happens when you call the police to report a domestic violence or abuse crime.
Due to the sensitive nature of this conversation, at times, this episode does contain mature language and listener discretion is advised.
Aharon is an assistant district attorney in the Bronx County Domestic Violence Bureau where he prosecutes domestic violence cases. Aharon shares the ins and outs of what actually happens once a crime is reported and how the case gets handled from a law enforcement perspective.
- How does one practically go about reporting a crime to the police?
- What can we do to understand and prevent abuse better in our communities?
- What messages does Aharon hope to hear more from our community when abuse occurs?
Tune in to hear a conversation about abuse, safety, and how we can do better as a community.
Interview begins at 17:12.
Aharon Schrieber is an Assistant District Attorney (ADA) in the Domestic Violence Bureau of the Bronx County District Attorney's Office, where he prosecutes domestic violence offenses and crimes between intimate partners. Aharon is a graduate of NYU School of Law, and is proud to be on the path that he is on, and to have been rejected from many educational institutions and employment opportunities. Tweets @baronaharon, mostly about Star Wars. Aharon joins us to walk us through the specifics of what happens when the police are brought into an abuse case.
If you or someone you know is a victim of domestic violence, please get help.
If you are in immediate danger or need emergency assistance, call 911.
- Shalom Task Force Hotline: 718.337.3700; Toll Free: 888.883.2323
- Jewish Board Of Family And Children’s Services Domestic Violence Services: 212.262.7655
- New York Legal Assistance Group (NYLAG): 212.613.5000
References:
Unholy Catholic Ireland : Religious Hypocrisy, Secular Morality, and Irish Irreligion by Hugh Turpin
Safe Horizon
Law and Order: SVU
The Innocence Project
Serial Podcast
“An Unbelievable Story of Rape” by T. Christian Miller, ProPublica and Ken Armstrong, The Marshall Project
Inventing Anna
“Maybe She Had So Much Money She Just Lost Track of It” by Jessica Pressler
“Soft Power” by Joseph S. Nye
“On Star Wars, Sunsets, and Hopes for a Better Tomorrow” by Aharon Schrieber
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.

Adina and Eric Yoffie: A Different Path, Still Family [Divergence 5/5] Apr 19, 2022

Show notes

This series is sponsored by our friend, Danny Turkel.
This episode is sponsored by Ari Bergmann in appreciation of Adina's work and scholarship.
In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we talk to Rabbi Eric and Dr. Adina Yoffie about their journey as a family through ideological differences.
Rabbi Yoffie is the President Emeritus of the Union for Reform Judaism and his daughter Adina is a Modern Orthodox editor and writer. As Adina journeyed to Modern Orthodoxy, she also had to navigate the implications of her observance to her Reform family, and how she could live by her newfound truth without disrupting her family life.
- How does one best respect religious approaches other than their own?
- How does one take a principled stand without making someone within their own family feel like their own life and their own practice does not have any standing?
- How did Adina’s Orthodoxy affect Rabbi Yoffie’s approach to Reform Judaism?
Tune in to hear a conversation about seeing legitimacy in another camp at the same time while holding on to one’s own beliefs and convictions.
Interview begins at 16:09
Rabbi Eric H. Yoffie (father) is a Reform rabbi, and President Emeritus of the Union for Reform Judaism. Since retiring in 2012, he has been a lecturer and writer; his writings have been published in The Huffington Post, The Jerusalem Post, and Haaretz.
Dr. Adina M. Yoffie (daughter) is a tutor, editor, and writer living in Manhattan. She earned a Master's and PhD in European History from Harvard University and a Bachelor's in History from Princeton. She has published in the leading journals of her field and has received a Fulbright Award to Germany.
Adina can be found at https://www.adinayoffie.com
References:
Mishna Halachos by Rav Menashe Klein
The Formation of the Talmud: Scholarship and Politics in Yitzhak Isaac Halevy's Dorot HaRishonim by Dr. Ari Bergmann
Op-Ed: Judaism is always ‘tikkun olam’ — and more by Eric Yoffie
Kosher USA: How Coke Became Kosher and Other Tales of Modern Food by Roger Horowitz
The Rebbe's Army by Sue Fishkoff
The French Enlightenment and the Jews by Rabbi Dr. Arthur Hertzberg
The Fate of Zionism by Rabbi Dr. Arthur Hertzberg
Judaism, Human Values, and the Jewish State by Yeshayahu Leibowitz
Words on Fire: The Unfinished Story of Yiddish by Dovid Katz
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.

Moshe and Asher Weinberger: Heart of the Fire: Together Even With Small Differences [Divergence 4/5] Apr 12, 2022

Show notes

This series is sponsored by our friend, Danny Turkel.
This episode is sponsored by our friend, Evan Goldenberg.
In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we talk to Rav Moshe Weinberger, Rebbe of Kehillas Aish Kodesh and his son Asher, CEO of Swimply.
Rav Moshe Weinberger is a chassidish Rebbe who raised his son Asher in the more modern world of the Five Towns. Join us as they discuss differing trajectories and expectations, and how fathers can learn from their sons despite the small differences between them.
- How does a chassidishe father react to his son cutting off his peyos?
- Does being the son of a Rav play a role in paving one’s own path and journey?
- What does it mean to go back to the year 1840?
Tune in to hear a conversation about chassidus shniya [renewed (or secondary) Hasidic commitment] and the evolution of fatherhood.
Interview begins at 11:25.
Rabbi Moshe Weinberger (father) is the founding rabbi of Congregation Aish Kodesh in Woodmere, New York, and is Mashpia at RIETS at Yeshiva University. Rabbi Weinberger is one of the leading spiritual leaders in the contemporary Jewish community, and is a key figure in the spiritual revitalization of the Orthodox world.
Asher Weinberger (son) is the co-founder and COO of Swimply, an online marketplace for renting private swimming pools. Asher is the president of the Haredi Institute for Public Affairs.
References:
Sefer HaRokeach by Eleazar of Worms
2.0 by Mishpacha Magazine
Miniver Cheevy and Other Poems by Edwin Arlington Robinson
Tzidkas HaTzaddik by Rav Tzadok HaKohen of Lublin
Haggadah - In the Heart of the Fire by Rav Moshe Weinberger
Likkutei Moharan by Rebbe Nachman of Breslov
Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind by Yuval Noah Harari
Hararei Kedem by Rabbi Yosef Dov HaLevi Soloveitchik
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.

Larry and Tzipora Rothwachs: Here Without You - A Child's Eating Disorder [Divergence 3/5] Apr 05, 2022

Show notes

This series is sponsored by our friend, Danny Turkel.
This episode is sponsored by Camp Morasha in appreciation for Rabbi Rothwachs's tireless dedication to his family and ours.
In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we talk to Rabbi Larry Rothwachs and his daughter Tzipora about the relationship of a father and daughter through distance while battling an eating disorder.
Larry is the rabbi of a congregation in Teaneck, New Jersey, and sees himself as someone who is sort of in the business of helping people. His daughter Tzipora was diagnosed with an eating disorder as a pre-teen. As Tzipora’s disorder got more severe, she was distanced from her family—both physically and emotionally. During this time, she and her parents were forced to redefine and strengthen their relationship in ways they couldn’t have otherwise.
- How can absence become a relationship in and of itself?
- What did this journey teach Tzipora about being a daughter, about family, about her relationship with her father, and for Larry as a parent, how did this change his relationship, not just to Tzipora, but his relationship to being a parent in general?
- How can parents and children remain connected even when so far apart?
Tune in to hear a conversation about how distance can make a relationship grow stronger than it ever was before.
Interview begins at 11:43.
Rabbi Larry Rothwachs (father) serves as rabbi of Congregation Beth Aaron in Teaneck, NJ, and is the Director of Professional Rabbinics at RIETS at Yeshiva University. Rabbi Rothwachs has served as president of the Rabbinical Council of Bergen County and on the executive committee of the Rabbinical Council of America. In May 2016, he was named by the Jewish Forward among ‘America’s Most Inspiring Rabbis.’
Tzipora Rothwachs (daughter) grew up in Teaneck, NJ, and studied Business at Yeshiva University. After graduating from Yeshiva University, Tzipora Rothwachs began working as a property associate for JLL in New York City. She enjoys running and the outdoors and lives in Bergen County, NJ.
References:
The Fifth Son by Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson
Top Five Pictures of the Four Sons by Dovid Bashevkin
The Animated Haggadah by Rony Oren
Father of the Bride
Here Without You by Three Doors Down
Little House on the Prairie
Far From the Tree by Andrew Solomon
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.

Bruce Feiler: The Stories That Bind Us [Divergence 2/5] Mar 29, 2022

Show notes

This series is sponsored by our friend, Danny Turkel.
In this episode of the 18Forty Podcast, we talk to author Bruce Feiler about family narratives.
Bruce has authored many books and articles, including longtime 18Forty favorite, The Stories that Bind Us, which argues that resilience in families is built by developing a strong family narrative.
- Does The Stories that Bind Us deliberately have a Pesach theme?
- What are the mistakes that people make in family dinner conversation?
- Are there differences in the ways that we cope with different types of life transitions?
Tune in to hear a conversation about Pesach and building family narratives.
Interview begins at 16:27.
Bruce is an American author of 15 books. Bruce’s book The Secrets of Happy Families: Improve Your Mornings, Rethink Family Dinner, Fight Smarter, Go Out and Play, and Much More is a moving exploration of the ways different families have built healthy homes. Bruce writes the "This Life" column in the New York Times and the PBS miniseries Walking the Bible and Sacred Journeys with Bruce Feiler. His powerful article “The Stories That Bind Us,” in which Bruce explores the non-linear narratives of families from many different walks of life, was an early inspiration for 18Forty’s series on Intergenerational Divergence. Bruce joins us to discuss the stories that families tell.
References:
Shel Ma'alah, Shel Matah: Seders Ideal and Real by Joanna Samuels
Believe In Your Own Seder by Rabbi Judah Mischel
Just One - The NCSY Haggadah
Haggadah Encyclopedia Talmudic
The Mesivta Haggadah
The Stories that Bind Us by Bruce Feiler
Sin-a-gogue: Sin and Failure in Jewish Thought by David Bashevkin
Life Is in the Transitions: Mastering Change at Any Age by Bruce Feiler
Walking the Bible: A Journey by Land Through the Five Books of Moses by Bruce Feiler
The Do-You-Know Scale by Marshall Duke and Robyn Fivush
The Secrets of Happy Families by Bruce Feiler
Abraham: A Journey to the Heart of Three Faiths by Bruce Feiler
The Council of Dads by Bruce Feiler
The Nonlinear Life Newsletter
The Storytelling Animal by Jonathan Gottschall
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/18forty-podcast--4344730/support.

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