All right. I'm Gary Duncan, your host and I want to welcome Jim Domen. He is the founder of church united. He also has a book coming out soon that will talk about just a little bit. It's called anonymous steak, about living in a gay lifestyle and how that is transformed into him. But coming now from went from that to a pastor. And just the story behind that is amazing. And he'll talk a little bit about that. But we're gonna start with talking and I've got this up on the screen. You can see his family there. We've got what church united does, and so want a welcome. Welcome, Jim. And I'm still working on this zoom stuff. We'll get you tied. And there we are.
Oh, well, hey, Jim, thank you for having me on your show. It's great to be here with you today.
It's great to have you you know, you've got like we said earlier, you got three things going on in your life and none of them are non-controversial.
I didn't I don't think God sent me in this world to create controversy or conflict. My wife is a peacemaker. She's not into conflict. But you know, Gary, in today's day and age, I don't mind standing up for what's right, what's godly and what's good. And I want to continue to do that. And as I told my legal team, the reason why I'm doing this it's not to win it's to do what's right to do what's righteous and pro namely in proclaiming the name of Jesus, that's really my heart. And you know, what if I always say if no one's gonna stand I'll be the last one standing.
Well, that's we need more people like you and that's that's why I started the podcast are looking for guys like you that are willing to stand we all need to stand in some of us are more at the tip of the spear and summer are part of the stem of the arrow. But we all have to play a part. And so let's get into that. I get in that lawsuit first. And All right, see how that ties into what we're talking about today with the church and, and standing up?
Sure, well, three years ago, Vimeo, shut down the church, United's website, hosting page. Then I got an email Black Friday, the day after Thanksgiving. I mean, think about this, a legal team, their legal team sent me an email the day after Thanksgiving on Black Friday, if you're not in retail, everybody's out shopping, or at least at home, recovering from Thanksgiving, the Thanksgiving meal, but not Vimeo. They targeted me because I was a pastor and a Christian and a former homosexual. And they said because I had my story on the church, United site. Now church united, we do videos of pastors in California, we're growing nationally, and we tell their stories of how they're engaging in government, whether it be at the city level, the county, state, or federal, or all of them. And so we had about 89 different stories of pastors' minds being one of sharing how I left the LGBTQ lifestyle. And they said that video and a handful of others had that type of a message. And they said we're going to discriminate against you. We're going to delete your account in 24 hours. I mean, think about that, Gary, after three years of work videos and pastors up and down the state of California, we're going to you have 24 hours to remove your content. We're going to delete your account. I mean, I was in a panic, I started calling people and guess what everyone's on vacation. People are, you know, no one's at their homes, home offices able to, you know, download stuff or whatever and I spent about good About two, three days frantically trying to find someone to offload everything. Thank God we were able to do that. But then within a week, Vimeo completely deleted church. United's account. Wow,
I thought YouTube was the only one that did that.
No, unfortunately, this is Gary,, this kind of stuff has been happening to me for at least 10 years, at a minimum 10 years. And I just think because of the nature of what they did, because they targeted me because I was a pastor. I was a Christian, and the month of December, you know, in the Christian world, and then even in the nonprofit world, December's the greatest giving month, of any month in the United States for all nonprofits. And wouldn't you know, they targeted me they targeted church, United deleted everything. We had huge financial losses huge. And it's we're still recovering from that. And you know, a little guy like me, a David and Goliath type of thing. All I'm doing is telling my story of transformation, what Jesus did in my life, and giant tech is able to come through and eliminate pastors, Christians, conservatives, anybody they don't approve of. And so I commend you, Gary, for your show, and hopefully trying to create a revival remnant here in our culture.
Yeah, I think, appreciate that. Yeah, it's it's got to be in my thoughts is it's got to be a revolution, or me a revival is kind of an awakening. But a revolution turns over titles like Jesus did, and we need to be turning over some big tables, and they're the power of the Holy Spirit. And, and God's backing. We're bigger than they are. But they have the loudest voice. And, and there's the problem, they've got the loudest voice. The church has the numbers, but we don't have a voice.
We need to reclaim that voice and stand up. And Gary, I can't be the only one standing up against big tech. I can't be the only one sharing my story of transformation. That's honestly what you're talking about, you know, your, your remnant revolution. I think that's, you know when we see a revival in the church, and then awakening in their culture, I'm praying for both that the church stands up, gets her voice back and speaks truth into their culture like Jesus did in grace and love. But also My prayer is that we'll have an awakening where new people are coming into God's kingdom.
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's, it's happening as people are waking up, but it's going to have to be a major event, I think, to really kind of get the pendulum to swing a little bit. Now, how much can you talk about the lawsuit? Where is it at this point, though?
We've lost every, every step of the way we've lost. I mean, honestly, it's it's, it's I am like, I feel like a loser. But in reality, it's like I told my legal team, I'm doing this because it's right. It's righteous. And we have to stand up against evil and against giant internet companies that are shutting down conservatives, Christians, people who might believe differently than they do.
Now. What's the base? How's it? How's it? How does it read that they purposely really
Oh, yeah, so we have proved that they did it. They totally wiped out the account. But we are suing for sexual orientation discrimination and religious discrimination. And these are based on the laws and constitutions in New York, the state of New York and the state of California. They're the reason why we're in federal court is that they do. It's over multi-state. It's not just in California, they're based in New York, and church united is based in Orange County, California. So the suit, although we filed in at the Ronald Reagan federal building in Santa Ana, California, in January 2019, they kicked it to New York, because Vimeo is based in New York, and of course, we've got liberal judges that have ruled it's so interesting, you know, it's there for freedom when it supports liberal ideology. But when freedom starts incorrectly when they're shutting down conservative speech, oh, you know, you don't have a choice. You don't know all those freedoms are eliminated. In essence, that's really what I believe the judges had done in New York at the Was it the second Federal Court of Appeals, the second bullet court, they've ruled against us. And now what are they saying?
What is their? What's their reasoning for ruling against
it? It is based on section 230, which if you're familiar with that, or people who aren't familiar with that, it's from the communications decency act of 1996. Congress passed into law. Really, it was a law to protect children from being sexually exploited or trafficked online. And through again, liberal court rulings and interpretations primarily to the Ninth Circuit, which is we're based out of in California, they have ruled in essence has made internet companies immune from the constitution from law, they can their free will can do whatever they want when they want it. They're doing
it. What's that? And they're doing it right.
And they're doing it. Absolutely. And we're seeing that from, you know, nobody liked me to a high profile person like President Donald Trump. I mean, and everything in between. They're doing that I mean, Shadowbanning, they'll take people's followings and they're deleting people. They're removing people. It's really unjust and so unfair. So back to the case that we're filing on sexual orientation discrimination, religious discrimination, and we're hoping we'll be well, soon we'll be filing to the United States Supreme Court. And we're hoping and praying that they will take our case and obviously rule in our favor.
Well, right. Yeah. All these needs definitely needs to go the Supreme Court. And what we're seeing right now and some of that, it just, it's got to be a God thing, because we can't trust the Supreme Court even to do what they're supposed to do. Because we're dealing you know, as you know, we're dealing with an evil that is far beyond what we've seen in a long time. Oh, absolutely. It will reach to the Supreme Court just as easy as it reaches to our current, you know, White House administration.
Sure. And again, Gary, I'm just telling my story, you know, it was me telling my story, and they wiped out an entire organization's videos. I mean, think about that. I mean, I guess they could have said, We don't like the story, we're gonna, you know, we're gonna delete, you have to remove the video. But that still would have been sexual orientation discrimination, but instead, they targeted me. And it was like, because you're a Christian, you're a pastor, you're conservative, you're a former homosexual, we're just gonna wipe out everything. And they did. And again, like I said, I'm grateful for my legal team advocates for faith and freedom Tywin Burch, who are standing with me and providing the legal services so we can move forward. And I would encourage other Christians or Americans, for that matter of this kind of stuff that's happened, you file a lawsuit seeking Look, you know, reach out to advocates or another law firm that might be willing to represent you because we have to I remember senator Josh Hawley out of Missouri. It's like Americans need to start filing lawsuits. So we can try to stop and raise the awareness of really what these giant behemoth internet companies are doing to Americans.
Yeah, I was listening to somebody and they were saying we've got to remember, but it was a lawyer that was kind of bashing himself about being an ambulance chaser, he said, but we need more ambulance chasers right now that can take up court cases because it there is so much lawlessness, that it needs to go through the court systems and the way, that's how it's going to get changed. You know,
we're just kind of quoting one of one of our attorneys had shared, she said, Jim, your case three years ago, was kind of a nothing case. It wasn't that big of a deal. But like I said earlier, Gary, I've been since I've been experiencing online censorship from Facebook, Google, YouTube. I think we all know, Google's YouTube's Google. And, you know, this has been going on for years. And now finally, that we actually have a case we can file. But because of all the censorship we've seen that's happened in the last reason, I would say do three years. My case is the closest case to the United States Supreme Court. And they've indicated they've wanted, they want cases like this. So we're again, we're hopeful and praying that they'll hear well, one that they'll take our case, and they'll hear it. Wow, great.
Great now, and that's based on the church. United's website, correct? About correct all that? Is that okay? Go into a bit more about because we're heard about Yes. Like, you know, because I've been harping on, you know, churches where they, you know, what are they doing in this time in this culture. And I've heard so many times where we don't get into politics, politics is not our realm. Sure. And we are in that we are in the place we're in because church didn't get into politics or get into the government area. Sure. And sin people, we haven't educated the people we haven't educated the layman into learning to fight
will carry limits. So here's a little bit why I started church united, I realized pastors don't know most of them don't know about government, they really know the names of their elected officials. And I have really had that kind of awakening moment when even when I went to seminary got my master's divinity. We never talked about engagement in government. We didn't talk about how what's the role of God's people in government and when I tell pastors that are awakening doers, either at our nation's capital or at a state capitol, I'll ask him or I'll share with them find me a book in the Bible. Okay, we all we're all preaching from the same book, where God's people are interacting with the most powerful, the strongest well-known world leader at that time in history. I mean, if you look at Joseph with the pharaohs, if you look at, you know, Abraham with, you know, let my people go. I mean, he finally a book in the Bible where God's people aren't interacting and praying with or john the baptist calling out. King Herod on a sin of adultery. I mean, that was a sin. He called them out and literally cost them his head. Why do we think in 2021? Or, you know, modern history today, that we don't have that voice anymore? God hasn't changed. Scripture hasn't changed. And so what I tried to point pastors to is, look, the Bible has God's men and women, Deborah, for example, in the Old Testament, in our area, or our interacting or in leadership positions, or Esther, in the Old Testament, that was I said, Deborah, I met Esther but both of them great godly women having a huge influence on government. Why is it do we think now? Oh, I only talked about Jesus. Well, wait a minute. Jesus was involved in every, every part of life. And we see I'm in the book of Luke. All right, the Luke was addressed to most excellent the most awful that was believed to be a high ranking Roman official one book in the New Testament explicitly to a government leader. And so I tried to help pastors go, look, if you don't know this, let church united help teach you so you can better engage. And Paul talks about when Timothy, pray for those in authority. Well, how do you pray for someone if you don't know their name? How do you lead them to Jesus, I lead my assembly member in California to Christ. How do you do that with someone? Oh, Gary, by the way, I like to try to practice what I preach is how do you lead someone to Christ? If you don't know them? And my assembly member, you know what he said? He goes, would you be willing to meet with my chief of staff and the rest of my staff so they can get to know you? So we know how to serve you? And you did? I told him, Gary, hell no. That why would I want you to meet with you and tell you about Jesus? And how do you serve the church or serve Christian people in your community? Why would other courts I said, Yes. So when these pastors go, Oh, we only talk about Jesus. Well, how would these people know if they don't hear. And frankly, I've learned the best way to do that is through relationships. And so it's really been an incredible journey. This, I'll tell you how this started off, my wife and I were I went to Washington DC, with watchmen on the wall family research council does a great pastors event. And I was so excited. I brought my year, my wife back the next year, I said, Honey, look what we're learning our spiritual history. Look at the history in the walls in the Capitol, and all these godly men and women in government, and so I couldn't get one California pastor to come with me. And so a year or two went by and said, Honey, let's take $6,000 out of savings will sponsor five pastors. I was number six, will take these six pastors to DC, make a video. And let's see what God does with that. Well, we went from seven, I'm sorry, from six, to 27, to 70, to 157, California pastors scholarship and sponsored to Washington DC, church, United doesn't charge pastors and churches, we raise the money, so we can send them like on a short term missions trip. And I tell you, the impact has been incredible to see pastors ignite, get on fire for their cities, their county, their state and their nation, and to be Jesus to their elected officials, to their school boards, to their city council members, and right in their community. So I the impact has been incredible. It's been so great. The New York Times wrote about us in 2018. And you know, I had a friend say, Jim, there's a mole in church united, they know too much of what you're doing. And I told my buddy, I said a mole. There's, it's me. That's it. And all these. What they're sensing is the Holy Spirit moving across our nation, because they're seeing pastors Ignite. They're seeing communities like the Latino community in California, switching to, to representing politically where their hearts and minds lined up, and it's been awesome to see that switch. The LA Times just interviewed me this past week, and they're freaking out because they're seeing this shift. There's a recall going on right now in California, and 54% of Latinos are in favor of the recall of recalling Democrat, Governor Gavin Newsom, which is huge. And I think when the liberals are seeing this and again, that's why I think Vimeo shut me down and all these other organizations are coming after us like this, because they don't want our voices to be heard.
They kind of saw the writing on the wall and didn't hear them, they had a little bit more discernment then. I didn't the rest of us did to see what's coming. Hey, yeah. your feed says your battery pack needs charging. Oh, it does. Okay. That's why I went that's why I shared the screen.
Oh, I can't see it. Oh, gotcha. Let me You can probably edit this out, right?
Yeah, no, well, I'll keep your Keep your voice and I'll put in
a way to share the screen let me I can't see that. So let me go pop in a new battery you're not
walking, I can edit. I can edit. I can edit all this stuff right here.
plug up, started back up. Oh, yeah, that works. Alright. So how can now this is? So this is really more of a California initiative? Correct with Turchi? Nine?
Will California recall is the California issue. I'm just stating statistics that we're seeing a shift in culture. But yes, that is specific to California church united is not involved in the recall. We're a 501 c three. So we don't get involved in that. What I was just trying to share is that's what's happening right now. And the media is seeing a shift in the Latino community their quote-unquote sane. The Democrats have taken the Latino vote for granted and i i don't know if they're gonna quote me, but I said no, the democrats have used and abused a people group. And that infuriates me. That's wrong. That's which that's what they're seeing. And she asked me, Well, why do you think this is happening? I said, because you're being made aware of the truth. And church united does, we'll do some all Spanish speaking regional tours and awakening tours, to better inform the Latino, the Spanish speaking, citizens of California, again, how to engage in government, what government's doing to them and their people. And their, their awakening. And like I told her, I said, I think it's the truth that's awakening them. And that's helping them to see the shift what they're seeing on the polls
now, like, you've got a picture on your page hereof everybody praying over one of the Assemblyman, I guess, in his office or whatever. Yeah. Is that something you do on a regular basis?
Yes, we do. We will pray for members of the California Legislature legislatures in the California Capitol will do it for members of the United States Senate and members of the House of Representatives, either in their offices in the Capitol, we do that quite often. And we don't discriminate. It's Democrat, Republican, independent. We'll pray. We, you know, we've only been kicked out a one our former Senator Barbara Boxer literally kicked 12 pastors off out of her office, when at the end of the meeting, we said can we pray for you or over you? And they literally stood up and said leave now. And we respected them. We went and we prayed in the I don't remember the name of the federal building we were in but we prayed in the hallway out, you know, and like in a common area for them and their staff, but we wanted to honor them. But yeah, that was the first time we've been kicked out for asking, you know, to pray and like we're pastors, that's what we do. We want to help people in but you know, will show yourselves to the door.
I think that's I think we're getting to the point now where it's an honor to be persecuted like that because now we're really starting to see what it truly means to be persecuted. not as scary
it's hard to believe that's happening in America you know, as we're seeing it's just hard to imagine that this is happening in my lifetime that Yeah, they're coming after conservatives are coming after Christians are coming after anyone who has a you know, a biblical worldview.
Right and and I had a you know, right now during this time if when people listen to this podcast or watch it, it's the Taliban in Afghanistan is is doing some really horrible things right now. Yeah. So you've got Christians being killed here. And if we're not careful as Christians today, and we allow this, I would call this minor persecution. Sure if we really think about what's going on in the world, this is, this is like a gnat, you know, you're flying around our head. What are we going to do? If it really gets bad? You know, where we have the Gestapo police like Nancy Pelosi group coming in and busting down our doors? Yeah, at gunpoint telling us, you're holding a church, you can't have church in here. You know, that kind of things? What are we going to do? You know, are we ready for that? Are we being trained for that? And sure, that's one of the things that, excuse me, I saw about what you're doing is you're going into the governmental areas in trying to prevent that from happening by praying for those leaders.
Yep. And at least if if they believe differently, let's let's build a relationship. Let's build you know, that we're able to pray with the neat with then, you know, some of the experiences that pastors have shared, some of the elected officials will be like, what do you want from me? What do you want all? All? Does everybody want something from me? And they go, we don't want anything. How can I pray for you? And we, you know, we're in your community, we represent your we work with your constituents, you know, and, you know, I remember one, one member of Congress, when the pastor came in, she was kind of meeting like this with their arms crossed, and through the whole meeting, and the Holy Spirit just kept prompting on him to ask her, what, you know, how can I pray with you? And she was just like, you know, never really gave it a response. And finally, she put her arms down, and she said, my husband just got diagnosed with cancer. And so he prayed with her, you know, they're on different sides of the aisles. But that's not what this is about. This is about building at least a relationship, a friendship. And in growing from there. Yeah, you talk about things that are going on, I would, I probably wouldn't use the word persecuted. I think I will reserve that for Christians who are being beaten and martyred for as persecution. But I will say we're definitely being attacked and silenced in America not attacked physically, but digitally, and any, anyway that they can to remove or to really remove our freedoms. And again, like I said, this has been happening for at least 10 years, with my story of transformation leaving homosexuality, but it really hit the homefront when they wiped out church, United's nonprofit, you know, 501 c three accounts back in 2018.
And that, that would be my question to you. Not that. But my question to you being, you know, not, you know, you're I was gonna say, you said earlier, you are? You're not a pastor now. But you were, and you're involved 100% into the church united? What's the answer? What is the church? I mean, my question is like, Where's the church? What are we going to do? Sure. What are we going to do because we are not standing up. And we're not being taught. I don't think our leaders are teaching that this is a war. This is a war that we need to stand on this hill and fight. Sure. We've heard, I forgot who said it, but he gave a sermon. And it was called chocolate soldiers. And it was something that was written 70 years ago was a sermon that was written 70 years, and he was talking about and it was like, so true. It's we've raised in the last 40 years, a generation of chocolate soldiers, that when the tough gets going, we melt, and we're not standing up. And that's why really one of the big reasons why I started the podcast, he's defined those that are iron soldiers that are David's that are out front, the Joshua's and those kind of, you know, where are heroes? Where are people? Sure, that are larger than life that are standing up? You know, I
guess I call those heroes patriots statesman, you know, and where are they? My heart is that you know, we would stand you know, it's, you know, I,
how do you how would you answer for people like me, I'm just a normal, regular church, go, church person, will and they're seeing this happen, and they're like, somebody encouraged me to get in the fight. Yeah, you know, because that we're hearing sermons on. We're hearing sermons. And I'm just generalizing. You're gonna go to every single church, I can't really say, but from what I'm learning and listening. We're still learning how to be a Christian and that day is over with Sure it's time now to be a Christian and, and to mean to fight to get up and fight that means, like you're saying, go into the store, I mean to the public house and do those things and pray
will and so kind of it's again, this is why I started church united was to help pastors engage in government, and hopes that they would preach and teach differently than what may be what you're hearing. And what I have. Part of all say some of our success stories have been these pastors we take to DC or Sacramento, they get engaged, they start preaching differently. They're empowering their people. I've got one. So I shared all the pastors that we've taken in, taken Oh, well over 500 pastors to capitols from California, when and I'll just tell you one story of one pastor. He was one of the first that went that first group of six. He is now has a podcast, he's got a nonprofit called, his name is Pastor Tim Johnson. He's got our watch, and he is so engaged with meeting with his city leaders in the government. The school board in Riverside was implementing the sexual indoctrination of our children, K through 12, with sinful insidious, homosexual, lesbian, transgender behavior in the public school, starting with kindergarten, who can believe this, he started standing up to this and now his church has exploded from one service to four, and they've got to find a bigger place because there are people Christians are also wising up and leaving the churches or the pastors aren't addressing the cultural issues, and what's really happening in our time. I mean, Paul, if you look at the Apostle Paul, he went to the different cities and the known world at the time, wrote letters to the churches, chastising them, encouraging them, correcting them, rebuking them, why do we think we don't do that today dealing with our modern issues? I mean, we for some reason, we've, we've lost that. But the pastors who are doing this, I believe, are not only attracting people, but it's helping to awaken that remnant awakened or helped bring a revival to the church, and hopefully awakening to the culture. So we can change some of these evil things.
Yeah, I think they that there's a there's a lot of people out there that are hungry, sure. to, to hear the message and get the teaching and in those things, yes, stand up for this. They love the country, but they love God first, and they love this country. And we just need more than that. Is there a plan at all to is this something that you're doing with church united, something that could be done in other states? Very similar? Or Yeah,
just Phil we and we're growing nationally, we're having such an impact in California. I'm looking for pastors to lead in other states, if you know of any or any are listening to your podcast, they can reach out to me on our church, United website, church nada.com. Send me an email, I'd love to talk with them during the closure of churches across Northern California, but across the nation. I had pastors reaching out to me Help me I feel all alone. And I'm like, Don't worry, if you're in Northern California, we have a slew of the church, United pastors who were open and or help you open and you're not alone, you'll stand with you. But I started getting calls from other states. One specifically was in Colorado, this great pastor reached out to me and said, all the pastors have turned their backs on me and I'm all alone. No one else is open, no one else and I'm like, people are in crisis. The church has to be open. God doesn't say I'm going on vacation. I you know, to hell with all my people. He's engaged. He's engaged with us. And here you get all these churches closing doors and not reopening. And really, I would I have seen the churches that remain open, God is blessed. God has grown numerically financially. And but yet it's lonely if you're standing there by yourself. So I there are some pastors that have reached out to me, that I think will be our next key leaders in the states in the upcoming months and years. And, you know, the church united as is, how do I say this? I'm not I'm actively pursuing those leaders in those states. But it's the states in which God are uniquely is connecting me and them and we're walking together as he does that.
Yeah. And I think, as you were talking, the we have got to as a congregation, stand behind the pastors that do speak out. Sure, you know, because they're going to get the brunt of a lot of things and but if your pastors not speaking out, the people are just going to sit there like they always do. Sure and do nothing. And I think pastors will be surprised when they start to, to preach and to speak the word that is of this day, that but you know,
yes, when they do, they're going to get pushback. I know that that's what I hear people start complaining I remember I shared my story at a church are coming out of the gay lifestyle up in the state of Washington and a lady went to the pastor is what this church is going to be all about. And I'm like, you know, you're going to get some of that pushback, you're going to get some of these liberals or these walls that are in your congregations, don't let them pressure you to do what God is calling you to do to keep you from doing that. And I mean that that's going to happen. But at the same time, I think what I'm seeing is the blessing of the pastors who have said, No, we're gonna stay open, we're gonna meet the needs of the people, we're gonna preach the Word of God, as well, as you know, talking about how do we engage in what does that look like?
Yeah, and I think it's important to, like, what you're doing is that I've thought many times we send our representative to Washington or to to our state government. And we just, you know, we're done. We don't stand up, we don't ever doubt. Yeah, exactly. You're there do your job. Well, I think a lot of times, if, if, and I'm just speaking for the church, okay. Sure. If we showed up in force to say like you say, we're praying for you, we stand behind you, and we believe what's going on. And they feel that whether, you know, they'll fill it in the spirit, but they also fear they see it in the physical, is that yeah, these people are really, they really stand up for this. So when the tough really get the times get really hard. They know if they make that decision, that they probably don't have to make because nobody's listening, they'll go ahead and vote on something that that if they had the feel like they had the backing of the church, they would probably make that vote and be able to stand because there's somebody behind them. If there's nobody behind them, they're gonna be like all the other politicians.
Yeah, it's not only is standing behind the pastor but I, you know, there's also you have to realize there are some pastors in this country who aren't going to do that. They're not going to engage, and they don't know what Bible or theology they have. But there it's between them and God, and we're, I won't even waste my time with those. But the ones who are open to about Okay, what is God doing? What is he calling us to do? How can we better impact our community for Christ, those are the pastors that church united is looking for, and those who aren't afraid to take a stand when needed. And I got another pastor in Northern California right now that, you know, the state, the county, and the city is all coming after him, because he's got a school and a church. And you know, it's just again, they're bullying the church. And the church is, is standing up and say, No, we were protected constitutionally. And again, so that's a little bit what we see. And I want to encourage faster doesn't, that's what church, United's here to stand with you and let them know you're not alone. And as I see it, if we give the pastor's get this vision, they pass it on to the people, and that will help the people that are engaged to get people out to vote. It's and if we, if we haven't seen it now, through this pandemic, it's important who you elect to office and the decisions they make. And you can see that from the red states and blue states, just how dramatic that's been across the country, from the different leadership styles and how they've handled the pandemic.
And, you know, we have to be involved in the politics of it. Which is, you know, like you say, I'm actually being a part of the smallest level of our republican party in our county. It's not a big, you know, it's not a big responsibility, but it needed to be filled. There's other positions that need filled by people. And if you have a Christian in that place, versus somebody that's not a Christian, then that's going to make a more Christ and truth filling impact than the other another side would. So you're sure and it's just at the local smallest level. We've got to do that and encourage others to do that as well. Well, great, I we definitely appreciate that all the show notes and stuff with churchy night will be in there. But let's, let's go and let's talk a little bit about your book. Yeah, that's a connected book that's connected to this as well, because I think I read a little bit about your story, but tell us get us up to date on how your whole lifestyle kind of helped. Didn't it help kind of launch church united as a how right?
Yeah, I would say a little bit my, my testimony is unique coming out of the gay lifestyle and you know, I, I've always asked the god why the Lord Why Why me? Why do I have to deal with this? Why was this my thorn in my flesh and what? You know that what the Lord put in my heart one day is is you you will have an ability or he showed this to me one Saturday driving back from pastors meeting in downtown LA, he said You're able to connect with the in a room of pastors very quickly at the heart level. And it was really neat to be able to do that and or have him reveal that change for me to see that. But yeah, so my story I've been wanting to write my story is a book. Ironically, I tried to share it online, it's been deleted. So I was kind of forced to write a book, but I'm titled The book, not a mistake, the parents hope for their day, son. And it's my journey of growing up in a Christian home Christian parents kind of understanding that background even going to Christian Schools, and then dealing with same-sex attraction, and kind of what that looks like the book is broken up into three sections, mistaken identity, the stake in love, and unmistakable hope. And I think kind of under each of those and under each of those headlines and talking about identity, and how important that is that your sexual orientation isn't your identity. That's huge. mistake and love. And you know, I talked a little bit about the book, I was so desperate to love and be loved. I didn't care my partner was HIV positive and hepatitis C positive. Thankfully, God has kept me from those terminally ill diseases. But again, that was part of that. That unmistakable love and then the unmistakable hope, how we're talking about the hope that change is possible. It's really it's a book geared towards parents, but anyone who has a loved one in the LGBTQ lifestyle, it'll probably bring you encouragement and truth. Or if you're struggling with same-sex attraction, whether in the lifestyle or you know, struggling with, should you do that or not, I think this book will give you hope, as well. And in the full world, Sean McDowell is right in my Ford. But in the intro, I kind of write a note to parents letting them know, this book isn't going to change your child from gay to straight. That's not what this book is to do. Or the intention of the book, the book is to share my story, how my parents responded, how my family responded, how you could respond to your loved one, and the hope that change is possible. And even and Gary, I've met so many men that have come back to the Lord, even after their parents have passed, that they won't know until you know, until the end to heaven, that their loved one will be there. But it was just really beautiful to see that in so many people's lives. I again, I really think this book will bring practical hope for parents, and just sharing my story and journey that God's taking me this past, what 4047 years.
How did that happened when for you to, I guess, awaken to the fact that that was not a proper lifestyle. It was against what God called? How were your parents alive at the time, when that happened? Give us a little background on that as to if parents listening that they have their son or daughter,
yeah, like, um, I grew up in a Christian home. So I knew the truth, I knew the difference between right and wrong. And I always knew homosexuality was wrong. in Scripture Scripture, scripture is very clear about that. And so I always had that truth down deep in me, I really believe when Isaiah, when Isaiah talks about raise a child in the way of the Lord with all the, will not depart from it. So I had really great strong biblical roots. I went to counseling as a minor, which now it's real, it's almost forbidden in California, but at the time, ages 16 to 18, I went to a counselor, he helped lay an understanding of the roots of same-sex attraction that also aligned with biblically scripturally what's right, what's wrong, but like I said, I wanted to love and be loved. And I kind of said, you know, to heck with God, His kingdom, the church, you know, I want to meet a man and get married him. We marriage was illegal at the time, but we acted to pretend to like it was and we lived accordingly. I thankfully was only in the lifestyle for about five years. And what brought me back was, I'd say almost utter brokenness, losing everything. bank accounts, house business, almost literally overnight. not as dramatic as Joe but that kind of a story where all I had were the clothes on my back, not even a place to sleep. I had two gay friends who owned an apartment complex, it's a gym, you can come to stay there for a couple of weeks, but at you know, you're gonna have to pay a deposit and rent and I didn't have anything at the time and my parents said, Come back home and live with us. We'll help you. We'll get you back on your feet. I'm like, No, no, no, I've traveled the world. I've been to 40 countries. I have my own home and business. I'm not as I'm not 28 years old. I'm not going to move back home with mommy and daddy. But as God would have it, I did and now began to heal my brokenness. The relationship between my dad and I, my mom and really to have that grown-up time maturity time with them, just the three of us for a season was wonderful. It was great. And I joke with them now it's evident we were all walking with the Lord because we didn't kill each other as grown adults, you know, they talked about guests and fish, you know, your guests are like fish after three days, they begin to stink, but I live with them, I think for what, maybe two years, something like that. And it's just really as I re-establish myself, got back on my feet, started going to seminary and really gave my life back to Christ.
Well, now, let me ask you this question. It's just this just the question I have. Sure. Because there's a parent could probably fear, you know, that, okay, we've raised our son, right. He's been to church, he grew up in the church and all that, how, how does that happen? How does it help somebody raise raised in the church, all of a sudden become get into that lifestyle? And, you know, sure,
what I've seen in experience through so in 47, I've been to counseling I've counseled many men and women, young and old on this particular topic. It is a developmental issue between the Father and the Son, and the family dynamic. It is the environment, it is not genetic. There is no gene there is no there is zero scientific proof that it's genetic, that you're born this way, it's innate. Those are all lies from the pit of hell, there is none is what I have seen. And here's the interesting thing, Gary, in my book, I think 18 stories from around the globe, not just in the United States, white evangelicals, but these are black, brown, white individuals, male and female, in America and across the globe. 18 different stories, and they all have the same theme. They've either been sexually abused, you know, an absent father or didn't have a dad or never connected with the dad or were had different giftings than what maybe people might consider masculine. Maybe they're more artistic in the arts and drama and music as opposed to you know, football, baseball, soccer, football, yeah, construction. And so when you start reading and seeing these stories, you see this similar theme, that it was an environment thing, it was developmental, it was the connection with that same-sex parent.
Okay, so good. Okay, this, this might show my stupidity. But just thinking about it, is it more prevalent? Would it be more prevalent because you live in California because it's more freer and more people accepted versus maybe a real conservative Bible Belt area where it has to be hidden? You know, I said, when you say the environment is that could that
well, when I mean by the environment, it's the family dynamic, how a child is raised. And those sexual things develop, or those identities developed, probably between the ages of 18 months, and 36 months. So kind of a in a year, year and a half to three years of age, little girls, little boys start developing their identity as male and female. And when that gets skewed, it doesn't really matter. If you're living in St. California, and the Bible Belt, I grew up in a very conservative Christian evangelical home. And I still dealt with same-sex attraction. But again, it was the disconnect between my dad and me. And looking back as a kid, I saw my mannerisms, how I acted, how he behaved. And, you know, my dad connected well with my brother as he excelled in baseball and soccer. You know, I tried doing t ball, I sucked, you know, and it wasn't fun to play t ball being the last kid picked all the time, even soccer I did one year. And that just wasn't my gift set. And so were my dad knew how to connect with my brother, even my sister that was missing with me. And so really, it comes down to that relationship with the same-sex dad, or the same gender, dad, and then my mom, again, connecting better with my mom seeing the world through the eyes of the feminine instead of the masculine. And a lot of times when boys don't connect with their dads or with the healthy, masculine men, they shift and will focus or connect with their mothers. And so the feminine qualities and attributes are brought up and then their identity is or their wires get crossed, your identity gets connected with the feminine. And so I would say that's probably in my case more on the lines of what had happened. I'd never been sexually abused or anything like that. A lot of times that can skew people to go one way or another. So it really doesn't so much have to do with your environment as the location of where you live, but that family dynamic and your upbringing.
So with the not onslaught, but there's so much everything is about The rainbow, the gay agenda and all that.
It really is like an epidemic. He's crazy and it's offensive lines. I mean this whole what they do in June is just terrible and I have nothing against LGBTQ people. But it is not only being pushed down my throat in the public sector and government but here's the scary thing in California they are indoctrinated. They are sexualizing babies kindergarteners first grade, second grade, third grade, a fourth grade with homosexual sex, lesbian sex, and that your you can switch your sex. It is absolute insanity. And this is where people need to stand up. You talked about this earlier, Christians on boards, there are Christians all over the place. We're not saying any Oh, I don't want to upset the applecart. I don't want to offend anyone. I don't. We've been silenced out of fear and out of ignorance, and we just allow this evil to advance. It is. It is apprehensible. That in California in the public schools, they are sexualizing and indoctrinating our children. It's it's just sickening. And I wish more people would stand frank, I wish parents would take their kids out of public school spirit. Dennis Prager talked about that. I totally support that. We homeschool our kids. They're not getting indoctrinated by sex and LGBTQ sex. I mean, that should have nothing to do with academia.
I mean, we shouldn't even send them to the library. Because even though I agree my city of north of here, they had drag queen storytime. Yeah.
I mean, for children, what happened to bring in engineers, policemen, firemen, doctors, nurses, pilots, you name it. What about careers where people actually benefit the culture, instead of bringing adult entertainers to entertain children. It's it's deplorable. Honestly, it's terrible. It's demonic. And that's, to me, that's part of where we're at is because, and this is a lot of what God's been showing me. We are the gatekeepers, the church is the gatekeeper. We are guarding the wall, okay. Just like if you want to think about wall in Mexico, we're standing in the wall, we're standing in the gap between good and evil. And the more church and church leaders and people have the faith, open the door, the more that evil is gonna come in. And we've just allowed it to walk right in the door and come in the back door and go into our schools and or public places. And I think we are in a time that this is healed us to down is where we're at right now. We've been all that they say born for this well. What's that saying? We were born for this time or something for such a time as this? Yeah, for such a time as this. And I look, you know, I look at Ecclesiastes, he's in it says, you know, there's a time for wartime for peace. Yeah, I'm gonna hate time to love. You do not feel like we've been in a time for love for, you know, most of my Christian life is about love. And we need to spread the word of God, the love of Jesus, and we need to make disciples and always go back to Nehemiah and building the wall. You know, we're great at it helped to build the wall, but we're not defending it while we're building it.
They had to fight again, build that right, john, it was 20 around the clock,right? We're talking about building for eons, and we've not done it with a weapon in our hand and it's time we need the sword of the Spirit. So Absolutely.
Right. Yes, you can get a book at Jim Delmon calm or not a mistake calm you can order a copy pre-order actually, the book will be released around the same time we're filing our lawsuit or federal lawsuit to the United States Supreme Court. So you can get go to www.notamistake.com to preorder a copy now.
Okay, so when you click on click on there you go. Make sure let me let's let me share the screen again. Okay. So when you go to his website, Jim domain.com, there's a little box in the right preorder book. There, it'll take you to the link. So you can go and preorder the book for $20. And I'm sure you appreciate it, because that helps. When you preorder that helps kind of get it free pre loaded for Amazon, hopefully, yes, put it on Amazon, maybe it'll be on
Amazon and every, every digital place we that will allow it if I don't get banned, at least I talked to my tech people, and at least we've got the domain names, and hopefully they don't shut down our website. So you should be able to but would prefer if you bite from our website, otherwise, Amazon takes like 50% of everything. That's why Jeff Bezos is so rich. That is for sure everything.
Well, I will put this in the show notes. We'll have links to that in the show rates. And once you once you get that link, that goes direct again, we'll put it in there as well. Sure, Jim, appreciate it. Any last words? It's been a pleasure. Great. Yeah. Gary, thank you for what you're doing. God bless you. And if you're hearing or watching this, let me just encourage you to take a stand, stand up for righteousness. Don't allow evil, to keep you quiet, stand up and do something vote and get godly men and women to run for office and to vote. Yes.
Great. Thank you, Jim. All right. God bless you, Gary. Thank you so much. God bless you.
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