The Art of Pastoring

You Ask, We Answer Jun 15, 2021

On this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson take listener questions about the pastoring life, including:How does a pastor know when it’s time to move on?

How do you shepherd people away from the political fringes?

How can pastors establish boundaries around family time?Tune in for a heartfelt, practical discussion that responds directly to the needs and curiosities of pastors.Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Shepherds on the Socials Jun 07, 2021

Social media provides pastors with an opportunity to speak to those inside and outside their congregations far more often than a Sunday morning sermon. Depending on the climate of Twitter or Facebook, that increase in available airtime can feel like a blessing or a curse. What is a pastor’s calling in the face of a blinking cursor and updated feed?

In this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson return from their hiatus to share their thoughts on social media engagement. They talk about the problems with statements like “he’s not really like that in real life” and the fact that our true selves are made plain through our speech—even online. And they consider what it looks like to interact with congregants about their social media posts in ways that keep love and truth at the heart of every conversation.Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Finding Friendship Apr 05, 2021

Being a pastor can make it hard to maintain close friendships. It’s difficult to be both a friend and minister, especially in seasons when reproof or connection may be necessary. But community and friendships are vital for those in leadership. So what’s the answer?

In this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson discuss the ways that pastors can invite others into their lives and build meaningful relationships. They talk about the unavoidable reality that things can—and likely will—get awkward or even harmful when pastors attempt to build friendships within their congregations. They consider how accountability, mentorship, and relationships outside of their local congregations can help pastors experience true friendship.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Ministry in the Face of Fear Mar 29, 2021

Struggling to answer someone’s theological question about grief or pain.

Walking into an elder meeting only to discover that half of the group isn’t on board with your plan.

Realizing halfway through preaching that you really don’t know what you’re talking about.

Are you shuddering yet? Scenarios like these can send chills down a pastor’s spine, and they often point to deeper fears: Am I really the right pastor for this church? Am I equipped for ministry?

On this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson share some of the fears they’ve faced. They talk about the ways that especially nerve-wracking experiences can stick with us, affecting our future responses. And they speak to the power of defining pastoral roles, responsibilities, and faithfulness around love and freedom rather than fear and insecurity.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casell

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Pastoral Passages Mar 15, 2021

As pastors preach the whole of Scripture, specific portions often become personal favorites. These treasured verses may speak to the life of the pastor, provide encouragement, or offer refreshment to tired ministers.

On this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson share some of the passages that they have clung to as pastors. They discuss passages that bring both conviction and comfort. They remind one another of the deep truths that remain consistent all throughout the story that the Bible tells about ministry: there will be suffering, it is temporary, and one day the Good Shepherd will say, “Well done.” Tune in for a rich and recalibrating episode anchored by the promises of God.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Prioritizing Prayer Mar 08, 2021

Reading and studying often feel productive, efficient, and purposeful. But prayer? Though we may feel guilty for thinking it—not so much.

On this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson, whose new book Gospel-Driven Ministry is now available, talk about the barriers pastors often face when it comes to regular, meaningful times of prayer. They share their personal struggles and talk about the centrality of prayer in historical revivals and the international church. This episode both convicts and comforts, reminding us that while prayer can feel abstract, it is ultimately an invitation to connect with the One who first loved us.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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When Pain Enters The Pulpit Mar 02, 2021

Nobody wants to talk about grief. At least, not until it invades our lives and we feel like not talking about it might crush us.

On this special episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson welcome Christianity Today Editor-in-Chief Daniel Harrell. Daniel, who pastored for over 30 years, lost his wife, Dawn, to cancer in 2019. He speaks openly and honestly about the difficulty of suffering and mourning as a pastor. Ronnie, Jared, and Daniel discuss the ways congregations struggle to respond to a pastor’s pain and how pastors can develop relationships that will support them when tragedy strikes. This episode underscores how brokenness and beauty often keep the same company.

If you’d like to hear more about Daniel’s story and what God has revealed to him about suffering, check out the new Christianity Today podcast Surprised by Grief, which Harrell co-hosts with young widow and author Clarissa Moll.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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One of These Types Is Not Like the Other Feb 22, 2021

It’s easy to reduce personality types to tropes: extroverts are always ready to entertain and introverts hate socializing, for example. But the truth of personalities, and how they reveal themselves in each individual, is much more textured than that.

On this episode of the Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson share how their personalities shape their pastoring. As one introvert and one extrovert, Jared and Ronnie discuss what energizes them, what drains them, and what may surprise you about their differences. While they talk about arranging their schedules in ways that consider their preferences and personality types, they speak to the importance of understanding ourselves and each other as unique individuals created by God.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Stewarding the Study Feb 15, 2021

The idea that pastors are paid to pray, study, and even think can feel a little out of touch with our hyper-productive culture. The tyranny of the urgent can leave pastors wondering what it really means to serve their congregations, and if hours of meditating on Scripture should make the cut.

On this episode of the Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson talk about what it may look like to value deep Bible study and time in prayer as pastors in a high-efficiency world. They talk about intentionally shaping their weeks and mindsets to prioritize their true callings as pastors and addressing the expectations of others. And they encourage pastors to remember that God is the one whose approval matters above all.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and MIxed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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How Marriage Fits into Ministry (and Vice Versa) Feb 08, 2021

When the phone may ring at any moment, a congregant’s heartbroken voice on the other end, pastors and their families can find themselves living on high alert. Perhaps without even realizing it at first, some ministry marriages end up struggling for space to breathe, rest, and focus.

On this episode of the Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson talk about the joys and challenges cultivating a flourishing marriage while in pastoral ministry. They talk about boundaries, seeking wisdom, and the weight of expectations on ministry spouses. Tune in for a word of encouragement and hope.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Leaning Into Love Feb 01, 2021

On this week’s episode of the Art of Pastoring, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin dig beneath the practical ins and outs of ministry to ponder the wellspring of God’s love.

They explore reasons why pastors may resist embracing God’s love deeply in their own lives, or why they may hesitate to emphasize it from the pulpit. They talk about caring for people who may enter church on a Sunday morning without having heard “I love you” all week. And they remind one another that God’s love does not run dry—either for pastors or for the people God has given to them to love.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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When Care Becomes Codependence Jan 25, 2021

To be human is to be limited, but sometimes pastors aren’t sure if they’re allowed to apply that truth to themselves.

When congregants ask their pastors to serve as functional messiahs, or when pastors present themselves as saviors, codependency arises and interferes with true care. On this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin talk about seasons when they’ve struggled with codependency in their church relationships. Listen in as Jared and Ronnie remind one another of the true savior, discuss setting boundaries and expectations, and talk about providing genuine care.

Produced by Mike Cosper, Ronnie Martin, and Jared Wilson

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Stay True (And Maybe Stop Yelling) Jan 18, 2021

If a sermon isn’t a lecture, lesson, or chance to raise your voice, then what is it?

On this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin talk about the role of preaching in the local church. They discuss the trends they’ve noticed among preachers in the past few years, remaining true to the Biblical text, and how to preach according to the needs of a congregation. And they encourage listeners to remember that all parts of the body come together to glorify God and build up his church.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Hard Seasons Jan 11, 2021

Many pastors are looking back at 2020 with a mixture of exhaustion and uncertainty. The combined financial, relational, and social pressures of the past year have led many to wonder about their futures in ministry, questioning whether it's time to move on to different role, a different church, or even a different career. Those questions – like hard seasons themselves – are perfectly normal, and they're times God uses to continue his work in remaking us in Jesus' image.

Join Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson for a conversation about pastoring through hard seasons, seeking God's face in the midst of them, and discerning what's next.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme song "Guide Me O, Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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New Year Renewal Jan 06, 2021

As much as we may wish differently, a new year doesn’t come with a blank slate. On this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson talk about how pastors can greet 2021 with a grounded hopefulness. They discuss what shepherding might look like in this season, and what it means to embrace what God has given even as we grieve disappointments and losses. And they address pastors with specific, timely encouragement for entering January with grace and faith.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O, Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Reason for Hope Dec 23, 2020

On this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson talk about why pastors can and should be hopeful both about the near future and the kingdom to come. They discuss how pastors can hope for what they cannot see and what it looks like to trust that God’s kindness and patience will result in their good. Ronnie and Jared also share their favorite books of 2020, and their hopeful approaches to entering 2021.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Not Feeling It Dec 15, 2020

Every pastor has days when they don’t want to do the ministry set before them. This lack of desire can lead to guilt, worries about faithlessness, and deep confusion over the feeling of separation between head and heart. In this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin discuss what it’s like to preach, counsel, and disciple when energy or passion run low. And they remind one another that the Lord works in spite of our weakness to minister to his church.

The Art of Pastoring is a production of Christianity Today.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Unsexy Ministry Dec 01, 2020

Many pastors are attracted to the flashier and more attention-grabbing aspects of ministry, but the most important work is often unnoticed.

On this episode of the podcast, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin reflect on the ways the less exciting and less interesting aspects of ministry can be some of the most critical places for us to show up and serve our congregations. Whether it's counseling at a hospital bedside or a short prayer in the hallway of a church, the ordinary, everyday work of pastoring may not be the most glamorous or thrilling, but it can be the very thing God uses to reach and transform his church.

The Art of Pastoring is a production of Christianity Today.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Self Awareness Nov 24, 2020

Most of our culture lives in a deficit of self-awareness. On this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson explore the topic, challenging pastors to ask themselves and others "how do you experience me?"

Pastors can often be woefully unaware of how they're impacting staff and leaders in their churches, leaving a residual impact on them that can do real harm to their hearts and souls. As Jared puts it, "the way we adorn our preaching and teaching with our lives is crucial,"

By cultivating a sense of self awareness, we can be come better leaders, more faithful servants, and more loving Christians.

The Art of Pastoring is a production of Christianity Today.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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The Joys of Ministry Nov 17, 2020

Often, when pastors gather to discuss what’s happening in ministry, it becomes an opportunity to lament. Ministry can be grueling, disappointing, and frustrating. But it can also be tremendously rewarding. Few people have such a front-row seat to the things God is doing in the lives of their congregations – births, marriages, conversions, recovery from addiction, and much more.

On this episode, Jared and Ronnie reflect on the aspects of ministry that have been the most joyful and life-giving and discuss how to lean into those moments so they can sustain you for the long haul.

This episode was produced by Mike Cosper, Ronnie Martin, and Jared Wilson

It was edited and mixed by Aaron Leslie

Our theme song is “Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah” by Jeremy Casella

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From Fan to Critic Oct 27, 2020

Oftentimes in ministry, there's a kind of "honeymoon" period with new members or with a new congregation. For a period, pastors receive lots of unconditional support. But that can turn quickly, when sin emerges, when ministry changes directions, or when someone becomes hostile to your preaching, teaching, or leadership. What happens internally to the pastor? What happens to the congregation, and what is the fallout? And ultimately, what's a pathway forward for grace, healing, and health for both?

On this episode of The Art of Pastoring, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson discuss when fans become critics, sharing their own experiences and reflecting on why this should be expected, but not devastating, to a ministry.

The Art of Pastoring is a production of Christianity Today.

Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme Song "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Discouragement Oct 20, 2020

Discouragement is an inevitable part of the Christian life, and in ministry, it can take many forms. Often, it’s accompanied by questions about calling, or about whether or not you’re serving in the right place. Finding clarity in a cloud of uncertainty can be painful and disorienting.

On this episode of the podcast, Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin talk about their own experiences of discouragement, about the need for vulnerability and safe community, and about how holding a sense of calling loosely is essential to being able to respond to God’s call throughout your years of ministry.

Executive Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited

and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme song:

"Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Anxiety Oct 13, 2020

On our first episode, Ronnie Martin and Jared Wilson discuss the powerful impact anxiety can have in the work of ministry. They offer insight both from personal experience and the scriptures, and remind us that in the midst of our difficult work, God can give us relief.

Executive Produced by Mike Cosper

Edited and Mixed by Aaron Leslie

Theme song: "Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah" by Jeremy Casella

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Introducing: The Art of Pastoring Sep 24, 2020

Many of the struggles of pastoral ministry go unseen. Along with the joys of serving our churches come the challenges of conflict, fear, and criticism. In the midst of these, pastors care for souls, preach the Word, and attempt to live healthy lives with our families and friends.

On The Art of Pastoring, join Jared Wilson and Ronnie Martin as they reflect on their decades of experience in ministry, engaging in frank and vulnerable conversation on lessons learned and pathways discovered as they’ve sought to follow Jesus and pastor well.

Jared Wilson is Assistant Professor of Pastoral Ministry at Spurgeon College, Author in Residence at Midwestern Seminary, and Director of the Pastoral Training Center at Liberty Baptist Church, all in Kansas City, MO. He has authored over twenty books, including the forthcoming Gospel-Driven Ministry (2021, Zondervan).

Ronnie Martin is the founder and lead pastor of Substance Church in Ashland, Ohio. In addition to co-hosting the popular Happy Rant Podcast, Ronnie also serves on the church multiplication board for the EFCA and does pastoral care and connection for the Sojourn Network. His most recent book is "The Best Gift Ever Given" (Harvest House 2019).

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