Never Contemplated - The Florida Bar

Pick it and Stick It Jul 10, 2026

Join us for this fresh reboot of Never Contemplated where our host Judge Hetal Desai talks to Judge Carrie Ann Wozniak, the incoming Chair of The Florida Bar Appellate Court Rules Committee. Listen to Judge Wozniak discuss the importance of travel, what it is like to be a judge in the newest appellate district, and why young attorneys should do pro bono and guardian ad litem work. Judge Wozniak gives us tips on writing (keep it short), re-writing (edit, edit, edit), and preparing for oral argument (overprepare but treat it like a conversation). This episode is a great kick off to what should be an educational and entertaining new season.

Links to Guardian Ad Litem and Appellate Law Section:

https://guardianadlitem.org/

(https://clicktime.symantec.com/15xVcJcfzbVxsnwpg1Cuk?h=xrYsr-UqQoVs3-9daVXARJGC-_LHHBGlwPk3-zL4ip8=&u=https://guardianadlitem.org/)

https://flabarappellate.org/

https://www.floridabar.org/about/cmtes/cmtes-cm/cmte-cm205/

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hour of General and 0.5 hour of Professionalism. CLE credit Course #9930

The Practice of Law May be Different Than You Imagined Sep 05, 2024

Listen to our episode with Magie Ozarowski, the new host of the On Civility podcast. Judge Desai and Ms. Ozarowski talk about what it’s like to be a government attorney, to regulate alcohol, to be a Fellow in The Florida Bar's Leadership Academy, and to explore the world.

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1.0 hour of General CLE credit, and 1.0 hour of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #8694.

Never Contemplated with Renée E. Thompson Chair-Elect of The Florida Bar’s Solo & Small Firm Section Jun 27, 2024

Enjoy this interactive session as our host, Judge Hetal Desai talks with Renée E. Thompson Chair of The Florida Bar’s Solo & Small Firm Section as they discuss the many benefits of section membership. CLE #8573 .5 Professionalism and General Credit.

Committee Work -Collaborating to Create a Better World for Colleagues and Florida Families Apr 16, 2024

In this episode of Never Contemplated, host Judge Hetal Desai talks with two distinguished members of The Florida Bar’s Family Law Section, Sarah Kay, and Shannon Novey. Tune in as they share their expertise and shed light on the intricacies of this multifaceted legal field.

CLE Number: 8460

Immerse Yourself and Just Get Involved - Victoria Heuler and Sarah Butters Jan 23, 2024

Meet Victoria Heuler and Sarah Butters, leaders of the Florida Bar’s Elder Law and Real Property Probate and Trust Law (RPPTL) Sections. Learn about the differences and similarities between these practice areas, and the professional and practical benefits to joining a Bar Section.

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1.0 hour of General CLE credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #8306.

Links:

The Florida Bar RPPTL Section

Elder Law Section of the Florida Bar (eldersection.org)

Surround Yourself with Amazing People - Rebecca Bandy Nov 30, 2023

This episode is a true holiday gift. Enjoy this interactive recording with Judge Hetal Desai and Rebecca Bandy, Director of the Henry Latimer Center for Professionalism at The Florida Bar, where they discuss her story and legal professionalism live from the National Association of Administrative Law Judiciary Conference in Tampa, Florida.

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of General CLE credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #8231.

REFERENCED RESOURCES:

Segregated Proms and SOUTHERN RITES:

The USS COLE, Carl Wingate’s Journal

It’s a much more gratifying way of life when you are serving others - Justice Meredith Sasso Oct 18, 2023

Meet Justice Meredith Sasso, the newest member of the Florida Supreme Court. Listen to her conversation with Judge Hetal Desai about growing up in the capital city, what being on a sports team taught her, Guardian Ad Litem (https://guardianadlitem.org/), the creation and workings of the 6^th DCA, and the importance of the Bar’s rules committees.

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1.0 hour of General CLE credit, and 1.0 hour of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #8182.

The Ability to Read the Room is as Important as the Ability to Read the Law - Alexis Fowler Aug 18, 2023

Enjoy this interactive session with Judge Desai and Alexis Fowler, Government Relations Director at Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa, where they discuss her survival story and the importance of giving back.

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1.5 hour of General CLE credit, and 1.0 hour of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #7916.

Recognize Your Own Talents - Melanie S. Griffin Apr 26, 2023

Enjoy this speed session with Judge Desai and Secretary of the Department of Business and Professional Regulation (DBPR), where they discuss mentorship, the FSU J.D./M.B.A. program, evaluating life-work balance in the long term, getting over imposter syndrome, the workings of DBPR, and the Secretary’s personal story of motherhood.

http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/

Twitter:

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of General CLE credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #7463.

Pro Bono work helps students develop as lawyers and not just people who know the law - Dean Theresa Radwan Mar 30, 2023

Judge Desai asks the Interim Dean of Stetson Law School Theresa Radwan questions about the Law School’s history and its current program. Listen to Dean Radwan explain the importance of law students and lawyers reaching out to community, how Stetson Law makes sure students are “practice ready” lawyers, and Stetson Law’s own unofficial rock band.

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of General CLE credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #7366.

Education Can Change Everything - Dean Deidré A. Keller Mar 23, 2023

In the third installment of this season’s “Never Contemplated - The Making of a Good Lawyer,” Judge Hetal Desai interviews Deidré A. Keller, the Dean of Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University (FAMU), College of Law. Learn about the historic significance of FAMU Law and the Parramore neighborhood in Orlando. Dean Keller also talks about growing up in Guyana, going from the Bronx to Yale, law and literature, and the importance of providing access to a solid practical legal education to non-traditional law students.

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1 hour of General CLE credit, and 1 hour of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #7242.

Be Curious, Be Bold, and Take the Leap - Dean Laura A. Rosenbury Mar 09, 2023

In the second installment of this season’s “Never Contemplated - The Making of a Good Lawyer,” Judge Hetal Desai interviews Dean Laura A. Rosenbury of the University of Florida, Levin College of Law. Dean Rosenbury talks about her journey from rural America to Harvard to the flagship law school in Florida. Learn about how UF Law has climbed to and remained in the top 25 law schools in the nation (and # 1 in Florida) by not only upping its game academically, but also by increasing the diversity of its faculty and student body. Listen to all the ways the GatorLaw Nation is helping UF Law students get practical experience and learn about professionalism.

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1 hour of General CLE credit, and 1 hour of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #7219.

The Making of a Good Lawyer- Dean Erin O'Hara O'Connor Mar 01, 2023

In the first installment of this season’s “Never Contemplated - The Making of a Good Lawyer,” Judge Hetal Desai interviews Dean Erin O’Hara O’Conner, who discusses her role as the Dean of FSU College of Law and how she got there. This episode explores the changes in law students and teaching methods over the years, and how to prevent burnout in the legal profession.

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #7182.

Be Authentic to Who You Are and Let Service Guide You - Judge Navarro Nov 28, 2022

In this episode of Never Contemplated, Judge Desai welcomes Judge Navarro, who discusses her unique background, learning about drug court and the ways to mentor others about wellness.
REFERENCED RESOURCES:

Judge Navarro on social media:

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #6822.

Special Release - Part 1: Administrative Law Judges Cathy Sellers and Francine Ffolkes Sep 21, 2022

The Florida Bar’s Henry Latimer Center for Professionalism presents Never Contemplated, a candid discussion with female judges from across the state about gender bias, professionalism, and civility in the judicial system, hosted by Judge Hetal Desai. In this special episode, Judge Desai welcomes Administrative Law Judges Cathy Sellers and Francine Ffolkes.
This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1 hour of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #6546.

Special Release - Part 2: Administrative Law Judges Lisa Nelson, Suzanne Van Wyk, and Lynne Quimby-Pennock Sep 21, 2022

The Florida Bar’s Henry Latimer Center for Professionalism presents Never Contemplated, a candid discussion with female judges from across the state about gender bias, professionalism, and civility in the judicial system, hosted by Judge Hetal Desai. In this special episode, Judge Desai welcomes Administrative Law Judges Lisa Nelson, Suzanne Van Wyk, and Lynne Quimby-Pennock.
This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1 hour of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #6547.

Be in Court, Prepared and On Time; Be Civil; and Be Straightforward - Chief Judge Munyon Mar 11, 2022

In this episode of Never Contemplated, Judge Desai welcomes the 9th Circuit Chief Judge Lisa Munyon who discusses her background and path to the bench.
REFERENCED RESOURCES:

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #5853.

Public Service is Always Challenging, Never Boring - Secretary Simone Marstiller Feb 07, 2022

In this episode of Never Contemplated, Judge Desai welcomes former judge and current Secretary of the Agency for Healthcare Administration, Simone Marstiller who discusses her diverse background and strong roots in public service.
If you’d like to follow Secretary Marstiller on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SMarstiller
This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #5783.

You're Not an Island - Judge Meg Kerr Jan 07, 2022

In this episode, Judge Meg Kerr discusses her unique background and path to the Office of Judges of Compensation Claims, where she is assigned to Worker's Compensation cases. She emphasizes the importance of building relationships and making connections with colleagues and staff in order to be stronger professionally and to balance mental and emotional health and combat stress.

References:

The Florida Bar Mental Health and Wellness Center: https://www.floridabar.org/member/healthandwellnesscenter/

The Worker's Compensation Section of The Florida Bar: https://www.flabarwcs.org/

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #7365.

Reputation is Everything - Judge Sheri Chappell Dec 03, 2021

In this episode of Never Contemplated, Judge Desai welcomes Judge Sheri Chappell who discusses the importance of mentoring and always striving to be above the adversarial process.
https://www.floridabar.org/prof/pmentor/

https://home.innsofcourt.org/mentoring

https://home.innsofcourt.org/AIC_PDFs/Mentoring/30245_Activity_Model_Mentoring_Program.pdf

This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #5693.

Always Be Willing to Serve - Justice Jamie Grosshans Nov 01, 2021

In this episode of Never Contemplated, Judge Desai welcomes Justice Jamie Grosshans who is currently Florida's only sitting female Supreme Court Justice to discuss her path to the bench.
This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 0.5 hours of Professionalism CLE credit. Course #5632.

Ambassadors for Civility - Judge Beth Bloom and Judge Robin Rosenberg Sep 27, 2021

Join us as we open Season Two with two amazing sisters on the bench. Our host, The Honorable Hetal Desai, explores the careers of Southern District judges, Beth Bloom and Robin Rosenberg who share their paths to the bench which led to their collaboration and development of the nationally recognized “Civil Discourse and Difficult Decisions” program.

This podcast has been approved for 0.5 hours of Professionalism Credit. Course #5588.
References:
Civil Discourse and Difficult Decisions
Distance Learning: Civics for Civic Engagement in the Federal Courts
Civil Discourse: Social Media and Cyberbullying

Lawyers Never Lose Their Appeal - Judges Miesha Darrough, Gisela Then Laurent, Daliah Weiss, Patricia Barksdale and Carolyn Bell Jun 02, 2021

Join us as we wrap up Season One with the ultimate legal professionalism #girlsquad! Our host, The Honorable Hetal Desai, delves deep into the careers of female judges who serve in The Florida Bar's Standing Committee on Professionalism (SCOP). Be inspired and motivation by the paths of Judges Miesha Darrough, Gisela Then Laurent, Daliah Weiss, Patricia Barksdale and Carolyn Bell.
This podcast has been approved for 1.5 hours of General CLE Credit, 0.5 hours of Bias Elimination Credit, and 1 hour of Professionalism Credit. Course #5233.
References: Embrace All Girl All Power! After School Programs & Camps, Miami Lakes.

You Have to Understand What You Are Fighting For - Judge Marcia Morales Howard Mar 17, 2021

Judge Howard shares her journey to the bench as well as her passion for performing Naturalization Ceremonies and promoting Civics education.
This podcast has been approved for 1 hour of General CLE Credit, 0.5 hours of Bias Elimination Credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism Credit. Course #6578.
References: Judge Marcia Morales Howard Honored with Hoeveler Judicial Professionalism Award, Judge Marcia Morales Howard honored by The Florida Bar, The United States Welcomed 50 New Citizens in a Naturalization Ceremony at Half-Time of the Jacksonville Jaguars Game against the Cleveland Browns November 29, 2020, 2021 Pro Bono Awards, Cuban American Law Program

You Cannot Be Afraid of Doing Things for the First Time - Judge Patricia Seitz Feb 05, 2021

The Henry Latimer Center for Professionalism welcomes Judge Patricia Seitz, the first female Florida Bar President to discuss how to shatter glass ceilings.
This podcast has been approved for 1 hour of General CLE Credit, 0.5 hours of Bias Elimination Credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism Credit. Course #4501.
References: Judge Seitz interview for the Center’s Historical Video Series; Pro Bono Matters website; Judge Patricia Seitz to Receive Distinguished Federal Judicial Service Pro Bono Award; U.S. District Judge Patricia Seitz honored by Miami Catholic Lawyers Guild; NED Award to Patricia Seitz; Court-Assisted Re-entry (CARE) Court presentation; Judge Seitz sculpture

Judge Jessica Costello--Mentors, Friendtors, and Advocates Dec 16, 2020

Judge Costello shares her journey to the bench and the importance of mentoring and giving back.
Judge Costello's Twitter: https://twitter.com/JessGCostello
Judge Desai's Twitter: https://twitter.com/JudgeDesai
Florida Children and Youth Cabinet: https://www.flgov.com/cyc-members/
This podcast has been approved for 1 hour of General CLE Credit, 0.5 hours of Bias Elimination Credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism Credit. Course #5981.
References: Florida Children and Youth Cabinet Members, Judge Costello on Twitter, Judge Desai on Twitter

Encouragement and Support Makes a Difference--Judge Nina Ashenafi Richardson Nov 18, 2020

Judge Ashenafi Richardson shares her trailblazing story of being a first generation immigrant attorney and her path to the bench.
This podcast has been approved for 1 hour of General CLE Credit, 0.5 hours of Bias Elimination Credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism Credit. Course #5980.
References: Minorities in the Legal Profession, Florida Bar issue paper; Helping First-Generation Lawyers Thrive, Law Practice Today article; How She Did It: Judge Nina Ashenafi Richardson’s Path to Leadership, Florida Bar Podcast.

Disagree Without Being Disagreeable - Judge Andrea Wolfson Oct 14, 2020

Judge Andrea Wolfson discusses the importance of civility, congeniality and community in the legal profession.
REFERENCES:

Friendship between Justices Scalia and Ginsberg:

Article about a Prison’s Book Club similar to the one referenced by Judge Wolfson:

Success Inside and Out: A Program for Women in Prison - NAWJ

This podcast has been approved for 1 hour of General CLE Credit, 0.5 hours of Bias Elimination Credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism Credit. Course #5979.

Make No Apologies—Judge Rachel Nordby Sep 16, 2020

The Florida Bar’s Henry Latimer Center for Professionalism welcomes Judge Rachel Nordby to share her experience and advice on balancing family and the bench.
This podcast has been approved by The Florida Bar Continuing Legal Education Department for 1 hour of General CLE Credit, 0.5 hours of Bias Elimination Credit, and 0.5 hours of Professionalism Credit. Course #5978.
References: Justice, Interrupted, Bradwell v People of State of Illinois