Woody continues his coverage of the Courtney Coco murder trial with the 4th part of the Witness Testimony phase.
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REAL LIFE REAL CRIME (WITNESS TESTIMONY PART 4) [Real Life Real Crime theme]
Woody: Warning. This episode of Real Life Real Crime, the podcast, may contain descriptions of acts of violence or that of a sexual nature and should be for people that are 18 years or older. Heed my warning, people. I do not get the facts of these cases off of the internet or from some television show. The facts I'm retelling you were presented to me by the victims of the crimes or the perpetrators who committed the crimes against the victims. My descriptions of the crime scenes, what I saw with my own two eyes. If you're going to get offended, please turn this podcast off now. Thank you.
Hello, everybody, and welcome to this episode of Real Life Real Crime, the podcast. As always, I'm your host. Woody Overton. Today, I'll be continuing with witness testimony in Courtney Coco's murder trial, which David Anthony Burns is on trial for second degree murder of Courtney Coco. What I'm telling you are the facts didn't come out in the news. I'm trying to give it to you word by word. I took shorthand as best I could. Sometimes, I'll paraphrase things. If I make any mistakes, it's an honest mistake. I don't think I have, but if I do, there it is.
So, I love all you, Lifers. Thank you for sharing this series and all the Real Life Real Crime and make sure you subscribe and share us and like us and go leave us a review on iTunes, if you feel so inclined, I'd appreciate it. Patreon Convicts, love you so much. Thank you for your support. Show couldn't run without you. Stay tuned at the end of the show for some Real Life Real Crime announcements, and let's get started. All right.
Y'all, the next day, we go into court there a little bit early before the jury comes in. Hugo Highland, by the way, he's doing a phenomenal job, I think, in this trial. He actually has come up to me a couple of times and talked to me or whatever. He came and he sat by me. There's not a lot of people in the courtroom yet. And he said, "You know, Woody, I'm like you, I think. I keep waking up in the middle of the night thinking about all the different things. I'm still learning as I go." And I told, "Mr. Hugo," I ask his statement, I said, "I think you're the best I've ever seen at a trial." You know what he said? He said, "Well, I'm certainly giving my all." I said, "There's no doubt about that, brother." He got up and walked away. David Anthony Burns' attorney, LaCour, came in. He's wearing a brown suit with a vest. David Anthony Burns came in, and he's wearing a white shirt and black pants, and Hugo had on a black suit.
Jury comes in, they seat them, go on the record. First witness, Hugo calls Ms. Ina Laborde. Now, y'all, Ina Laborde is the grandmother I never had. Mine were all deceased. I call her Ma affectionately. She was like 40 something years union rep for the Department of Corrections. Little bitty, tiny thing, heart of gold, best lady in the world. I love her to pieces, and I call her Ma. But anyway, they called Ms. Ina Laborde to stand. Remember, the day before, Michelle had testified about the comforter being missing and the rags and the dryer and all that stuff. But also, the lady, Ms. Charlene, I believe her name was, testified that David Anthony Burns told her he wrapped her up in plastic and dumped her in Texas. Now, heretofore, it's always been the comforter, and the comforter was missing.
Now, Ms. Ina, when she was sitting in court, well, she had something to say about the plastic, and I'm going to tell you. Hugo says, "Who are you?" And she said, "I'm Courtney's grandmother." He said, "When was the last time you were in Courtney's house before she was killed?" "I was in her home three weeks before the murder." "Did you go in the bathroom?" "Yes." "What did you see in the bathroom?" "She had a plastic shower curtain, and it had fish and shells on it." "Well, after the murder, when y'all went to collect the items from her home, what did you see?" "When we went to collect the items three weeks later after the murder, I went into the bathroom, and I saw the shower curtain was not there."
"So, three weeks before it was there and three weeks later, it's not? After three weeks before the murder, the shower curtain is there, you see it?" "Yes." "Three weeks later, you're there and it's not there." "Yes." He tenders the witness.
LaCour gets up and says, "During the time that David Anthony Burns and Lace were together, they were together for a long time?" "Yeah." "You were in court when Lace testified?" "Yes." "You are the one that informed someone that shower curtain was missing?" "Yes. I told Michelle." "Well, you never told anyone else. What about Shamus Setliff?" "I never told anybody else because I didn't think it was important." Has no further questions. Basically, Ms. Ina was in court, and she was like, "Oh, my God, plastic, the shower curtain," y'all, she didn't make it up. Very religious lady. I'm just telling you. She wasn't making it up. Hugo had to answer that before LaCour brought it up.
Now, the next witness they call is a gentleman by the name of Shamus Setliff. Shamus Setliff is a character, to say the least. Now, wait until you hear this shit. Shamus Setliff takes the stand, and Hugo says, "Who are you?" "Shamus Setliff." "How many times you've been married?" "I've been married twice." "Were you ever married to Tiffany Cedars?" "Yeah, 13 years between 2001 and 2013." "Do you know David Anthony Burns?" "Yeah." "Were you and David Anthony Burns friends in 2004?" "We've been friends my whole life." "Well, what about Courtney? You know her?" "Yeah, I knew her since she was in diapers." "Well, were you with her at the LA dunes riding four wheelers on a camping trip?" "Yeah." "Well, what are the dunes?" "That's a place where we all went and rode four wheelers." Hugo stops, and he wants to play a video.
Remember, I told y'all Lace had gotten a camera? And it's a video. It shows Courtney in a red bra and some shorts. She said something to the effect of the camera. "I'm sorry, Mom, we forgot our bathing suits," or whatever. Shamus is sitting on a four-wheeler. Courtney standing with the back to her, and he kind of pulls her to her, and he's messing with something like her tag on the back. She's like, "Oh, he's just fixing my tag." They're giggling or whatever. And that's it, okay. "Was that y'all?" "Yeah." "Was that Lace talking in the video?" Shamus said something, and Hugo said, "Let me finish. When was the video made?" Shamus said, "It was Labor Day weekend." "So, the date and the time on the video is not correct?" "Well, I remember because I had a bad four-wheeler accident." "Other than the dunes trip, have you seen Burns with Courtney?" "Yes. She was a pretty girl." "Don't make me get ugly. Was there something going on?" LaCour stands up and objects and the judge overrules LaCour. "Was there something going on with Burns and Courtney?" Hugo is getting upset with Shamus. Shamus is being very evasive, y'all, on the stand. Basically, Hugo said, "What did Burns tell you about Courtney's death?" He said, "Well, he told me on a cell phone a week after the death. He called and let me know about her body. His mom knew that he did murder Coco."
Hugo is getting pissed now because Shamus is evidently not telling him what he told him the week before when he interviewed him in his office. "Well, when I interviewed you before you left my office, Tiffany recorded me and gave it to y'all." "Do you know that Burns used the blanket to wrap Courtney up and took the blanket to his mother?" Shamus is like whatever. He said, "Did Burns describe what Courtney's body looked like?" Shamus said, "Well, it was black. That's all I know." "Did you learn from Burns what Courtney's body looked like?" "No." "Where were you when Courtney was murdered?" "I stayed at my house on Frazier Road. Tiffany and I lived in Lake Charles. I was in Rapides when she was killed." "Okay, well, who did you work for during that time?" "I worked for Lafayette Drug Company, and I delivered stuff to convenience stores." "Your home was based out of Lake Charles?" "Yeah." "Was Winnie, Texas, part of your delivery route?" "No. Nah-huh." "So, you never had to get picked up in Winnie, Texas?" "I've never been to Winnie, Texas." "You never had to get picked up "Winnie, Texas, while in your work van?" "No."
"Did you tell the police your route took you through Winnie? Did you tell the police you were on the road Courtney was found on?" "Yes. I was on the road three times Courtney was murdered." "Did you tell him that you passed the building that weekend?" "I went Monday morning." "How did you learn what Courtney's body looked like when she was recovered?" "Woody, the podcaster." "Did you tell your wife that she was blue from the waist up?" "Yes." "Did you tell the police that Burns took the blanket to his mom and washed it?" "No." "So, Courtney's been dead how long?" "20 years." "The first time you let anyone know about this blanket was related until you told me? Do you know Billy Earhart?" "Yeah, he's my best friend." "When Courtney was killed, where was he living?" "Not [unintelligible 00:14:45] me." "But did he own a silver Mustang?" "No, it was red. It was laser red." "I don't want to have to drag your kids in here to testify, Mr. Setliff." Basically, they were going back and forth.
All right, now let me interject here. On the recording that Tiffany Cedars did that we turned over to Alexandria Police Department, that when she was questioning him, he said, I think, like six times in three minutes that Burns did it, and he said that all he knew is she looked like she had been beat to hell from the waist up. Now, y'all, her body was badly decomposed, and her head was black and all that, and he said that that had never been released to the public. He's trying to say now that he learned about that on the podcast from me. Bullshit. You told your then wife that she looked like she had been beat from hell from the waist up. There was no way he could have known that. No way, unless he had seen it.
Anyway, they go back and forth and just hammering on. LaCour gets up on redirect. He says, "Mr. Setliff, did you want to be with Courtney?" "No, I dated her sister. But no, I didn’t want to date her." "But you tell the cops three different stories. You gave them three different statements. Did you take back everything you said just three weeks ago? Why are you up here if you're a liar?" Shamus says, "Because I got a subpoena." "Did your wife find panties in saran wrap and say you smelled the worst ever? That you had the smell of death on you?" "Oh, I was on a camping trip. I may have smelled bad." "Okay, the Mustang, you said it was laser red? You put yourself where the body was found. You pass by that building three times." "No, I ain't never been to Winnie, Texas."
Y'all, he's fucking lying. He gave one statement to Hugo. He's given another one to LaCour. He's going back and forth. He knows his ass is going to crack. The one thing that never changes is the truth. So, Hugo gets up on redirect and says, "When was the first time you told the cops Burns told you he killed Courtney Coco?" He was like, "I don't know." "The last time you talked to sergeant state police, did you tell anything about the body?" "No. I don't know," whatever. Hugo did good getting in his ass, but he's been compromised as a witness. He lied. Everybody knew he was lying.
But guess what? Still, if a witness is a liar and a piece of shit, it doesn't mean he's lying about everything. He obviously couldn't have known about the condition of the body if he didn't have personal knowledge. Or let's say worst case scenario that Burns told him. He got on the stand and testified that Burns told him he killed her. But then, he lied and said he had never been to Winnie, Texas. Then, he lied and said, "Well, but I passed by the body three times." Then, he lied and said, "I've never been to Winnie, Texas." He lied about coming home smelling like the smell of death, whatever. Fuck you, Setliff, that's what I got to say about it.
The next witness is Tiffany Cedars. They bring her in, they swear her in and all that. Hugo asks her, "Do you want to be here?" "I do not want to be here." "Who is Shamus?" "It's ex-husband." "Tell me about that weekend." "Shamus Setliff wasn't home. I have no idea where he was. He came home Sunday night early, like 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning, and we argued about him not coming home. His mom called and said he was in a four-wheeler ride and was injured from the four-wheeler the same weekend that Courtney disappeared and her body was found. He stunk really bad. I told him to take a shower and put his clothes in the washing machine. He asked me to go in his work van and get his shaving kit, and that's when I found panties in a foil, like he had been smoking dope on it. And the panties weren't mine. He told me the panties belong to Misty Hutchinson," or somebody like that, y'all, she says, "but I'm not sure." "Do you know about his route that went through Winnie, Beaumont?" "He called me because he had to go to the Winnie Hospital." "Did you have a chance to record the conversation?" "Yeah, I recorded for Rathman who was with Woody." "You never met Woody? You don't know Woody?" "Yeah. I met him one time." "If Woody is in the courtroom right now, who's Rathman? Was that some kind of sidekick?" "Well, I met Woody one time."
The truth of the matter is, y'all, that's when Jim was on the show and he actually had communications with her, and I told Jim to tell her to get him recorded, and she did. I drove through the night to meet her with Courtney's uncle that was the US marshal, and we got her cell phone with the recording on it and turned it over to police. That's the truth of the matter. That's where he said she was beat to death, and the family is going to be upset when they find out who did it and all that. Beat black and blue from the waist up. Burns had a blanket, his mom washed it. Lace and Burns did it for the money. Her body was black from the waist up. The family would be shocked when they learned he did it. Then, he asked about the silver Mustang. I remember, y'all, Burns told Charlene a silver Mustang was involved, and she said Billy drove a silver Mustang, and Billy was Shamus's ride or die.
LaCour gets up and says, "Do you have any personal knowledge of the death of Courtney?" "No. All I know is what Shamus told me." "Did Shamus lie and cheat a lot?" "Yes." "The Mustang being Billy's, Shamus said it was laser red, and you testified it was silver." "He drove a Mustang that's silver." "Did he drive it during that time? When you recorded Shamus, were you trying to set him up?" "I was asked to record." "Were you aware he recanted his statements?" "Yes." "You're talking to police about what he said, would you do it because you were angry?" "No." "Do you have any personal knowledge whatsoever about Courtney's death?" "Only what came from Shamus." She's dismissed. Bye, bye.
All right, so next one up, y'all, is Detective Tanner Dryden. Tanner Dryden is a detective with Alexandria Police Department who investigated Courtney Coco's case in 2019 once I handed all the stuff back to him through Courtney's uncle, the retired US Marshal. Hugo asked him, "You're no longer the detective for Alexandria Police Department?" "No." He works at, wherever. "Was it you that showed Clyde Griffin a picture of Ernest Veal aka Prince?" "Yeah." He puts up the photo lineup on the screen and asked Dryden, and he said, "Can you point out who he is?", talking about Prince. And he pointed out a black male, and he said, "That's Jitty." Well, y'all, the problem with that is Jitty was Courtney's boyfriend. That's not Ernest Veal. And then, he refreshed his memory. He's like, "Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. That's Prince." He asked him about the lineup for Jude Wilson that Burns was picked out of. Now, he showed him and he said, yeah, that's the one he picked him out of.
LaCour gets up, starts to question him, and I'm paraphrasing things, y'all. "When you took over this case, what year was it?" "2019." "Was it you that developed Jude Wilson as a witness?" "Yes." "Do you recall original statement to the Cambridge County Sheriff’s Office in the list date as September 27th?" "Yes." He said, "Well, we determined that was not correct." "Do you recall during your interview that on September 27th, Courtney Coco was alive? If that date's correct, then Jude Wilson got it wrong and she's alive." Basically, didn't have an explanation for it. "Do you remember him saying it was a Monday or Tuesday-",He's talking about Jude Wilson, "-of the Rice Festival?" "No, it was the weekend of the Rice Festival." He gave Tanner a statement to review to refresh his memory. "Did he not tell you it was Monday or Tuesday?" And Tanner said, "Well, that's what the statement says." "Well, you told him it was Monday, October 4th." "Okay, yes, sir." After learning that, would it have helped you establish the date? He explained right here, he was incorrect with Coco's car. The day following, he said he was on the news. Did you determine the dates of the Rice Festival?" "I was not able to determine the dates of the Rice Festival."
LaCour gets out the Rice Festival pamphlet and he shows to him and enters it in evidence, whatever. And the dates are September 24th to October 3rd. "Tanner, can't you get the date right there?" Y'all, I'm not going to read all this bullshit to you. They went back and forth about this fucking date. "If the September 27th date was correct, how many days for that is for October 4th?" Tanner hem-hawed and then, they made him count backwards or something to that effect. What at the end of the thing was LaCour saying that statement originally Jude Wilson gave was dated September 27th, and Courtney Coco had to be alive. So, he couldn't possibly ID him and all that good shit.
LaCour ate Tanner's ass about, "Why couldn't you figure out what the dates were of the Rice Festival when I did? All I did was google it." Tanner says, "No, he told me the date that was wrong on the statement." Hugo objected. Anyway, it goes on. He says, "In the statement, did he say he could not see inside the vehicle?" Tanner said, "Yes." "Did you ask him to draw a profile, and did he not tell you he didn't see the full picture of the face?" Tanner says, "Yes." "You got a lineup, was shown to him and David Anthony Burns picked out even though he said he didn't get a look at full facial features." "Yes." "Do you remember him saying he had a flat chin?" "I didn't make the line-up." "Well, you spoke with Jude over the phone, then took a statement and then went to Texas to show him a lineup?" "No, I never showed him the line-up." So, he tendered the witness. I'm paraphrasing, y'all.
Hugo gets up on redirect and says, "Tell the jury what is the protocol that has been developed by Alexandria Police Department for showing a six pack or photo lineup?" Tanner says, "If the detective is working an investigation and they develop a suspect, they get another detective to put together a photo lineup with the suspect in it, but they don't know anything about the case. Then, they give that photo lineup to another detective who doesn't even know if a suspect is in the six pack or not. That detective shows the photo line-up to the potential witness." That way, it takes out any bias, y'all. Now, I really don't understand that, because when we did it, we simply called the state police and said this is a suspect, the state police had a computer-generated program. They pulled up five guys who looked just like the suspect. I mean, some of the times when I knew who the suspect was, I couldn't tell them apart. This is their system. I think it's a good system, but outdated, obviously.
Anyway, that's what they do. They go to Texas, and Tanner is there, but another detective actually showed the line up to Jude Wilson. Jude Wilson said, "That's him. David Anthony Burns, that's him." Picked him out of a photo lineup. 16 years later, y'all. You talk about-- remember the math professor? He's like, "There's no way. It's statistically impossible." Anyway, so they get rid of Tanner, they dismiss him.
Hugo gets Lace Evans back on the stand. Now, this is Courtney's sister, y'all. I told you about her testimony in the last episode. "Lace, I want you to look into the eyes of this jury, and I want you to answer this question. Did you have anything to do with Courtney Coco, your sister's murder?" She looked at it, and she was crying, y'all, started crying. "I had nothing to do with the murder of my sister." Hugo then calls Dr. Tim Scanlon. Dr. Tim Scanlon is retired. He oversaw the Jefferson Parish Crime Lab in Louisiana. Now, Jefferson Parish has got to be one of the largest parishes and certainly the most populated. It surrounds New Orleans. I've gotten all autopsies there, and they have their own crime lab.
He talks about how he came up through the crime lab as a crime tech and crime scene tech and all that. He got expert in crime scene reconstruction, and he went on to get his PhD. He's testified as an expert witness 127 times. He's retired now. He does defense consulting now. He also said DNA experts are in the lab, and the crime scene analysts actually go to the scene. He said he's been to 72 crime scenes as a reconstructionist. This is not the ones he went out on, y'all, as a tech. He said they always refer to other documents to make sure that they're using the best practices. The family had to leave the courtroom again because he's going to show the crime scene photographs of Courtney's body again and how she was positioned. He puts up the picture on the screen. He said, "Are you familiar with the psychological studies on posing corpses? Something's done with a corpse afterwards, and it's possibly three things. One is this body is positioned to demean the victim. Two is a shock factor. Three is to make police try to believe there's a sexual aspect to the crime to cover it up."
He starts to question about Courtney's thing. Dr. Scanlon says this, "First of all--", it's a harsh word, but we call it a dump site. "Courtney's body was at the dump site, was easily found. Almost, it was presumed that they wanted the body to be found, whoever put it there." The bottom of half her clothes are missing and the arms are outstretched, so it's manipulated, and the legs are spread apart. She was dead, so she didn't do that to herself." Hugo says, "If there is a relationship between the victim and the defendant, does it make this a staged scene?" "Yes." Dr. Scanlon says, "What did you do when I actually review this case?" "I studied the file. I reviewed the medical records dated September 23rd, 2004. Courtney Coco went to the health unit, and she had an infectious disease. I took an overview of the scene and what they collected for evidence." "Are you where they took a glove and a rag?" "Yeah, but it's not related to the crime scene. They took that from outside the garage, and DNA testing was done. Nothing came back on it. Typically, when we do a crime scene, we rope off a much larger area. We take anything we can just in case we can develop a suspect from it."
The primary scene is the location of the criminal act. Search scene is everything else. The body was found decomposed in the warehouse, plus one or more vehicles would have been used. She was killed in her house because of no comforter and the mattress having been lifted on top of the bulletin board to hold it up. She couldn't have slept in the bed in that position.
Hugo says, "If jury has heard evidence that Courtney slept in a shirt, in a bra and in panties, is that consistent-- Was she ready for bed?" "Yes." He asked about the lockbox, and that was found out and open with nothing in it. He said he didn't pay any attention to that or to the trash can because the house had been locked up and the cats had to eat, and the cats could have turned the trash can over. "But somebody had to move the body." Fingerprints and DNA, he said, "Basically, it's hard to get fingerprints off anything because most of the times you just get smudges." That's a fact, y'all, because the old smudge and DNA, it could be anybody's DNA, like anybody that ever visited Courtney's house or anybody that ever been in her car or whatever. It's not really significant one way or another.
He asked about Fred Landry. "If Fred Landry's DNA was found on the trunk latch with Courtney's as a mixture, would that be significant?" "No. They were supposedly in a relationship. And he's admitted to being in and out of her car. That's incidental." Hugo asks him about rock rentals. And we call them crack rentals or crack loaners. "Rock rentals are vehicles that are traded for drugs." "What about cigarette butts in Coco's car? They were tested for DNA," etc. "That car had been in numerous people's possession. They were able to prove that. But since Courtney had been killed so anything in there really doesn't do anything, including if Burns' DNA had been found in the car, it wouldn't have mattered because he had been in the car before." It wouldn’t have mattered if they got the DNA from the steering wheel because multiple people had driven the car.
Hugo said, "What if Lace's or Burns' fingerprints or DNA are in her house or a car, would it be important?" Doctor says, "No. In real life, prints are smudged and unusable most of the time. DNA has to be a certain amount and it's hard to get the right amount of DNA. If I give you my cell phone to use and you use it just for a second and you hand it back to me, most likely the DNA off your hand hadn't been built up and I wouldn't be able to get a swab of it. But if I'm the only one to use it all day long, then yeah, my DNA swab would be relevant."
Hugo asks, "What's the reason to get an autopsy?" "Well, we're there for the exchange of information or to give information to the pathologist. It's vital that a pathologist studies the body for evidence of the crime, etc." He wants the pathologist that wants to have as much information about how the body was found, the location, look at photographs, do all this stuff, and so they could try to tell the story. Now, at the same time, when the pathologist is doing an autopsy, the investigators get information back from the pathologist and they try to put it together, put the pieces of the puzzle together. He's going back to the pictures and talks about the back hands. He'd do that in case there was any DNA under the fingernails and there wasn't anybody's but hers. And he says, "Is that significant?" "No. Absolutely not. It doesn't prove anything one way or another."
He said, "You assume the evidence of no DNA being under there. It doesn't mean she didn't fight. It's just meaning there's no evidence there of it." So, no signature evidence. Hugo says, "So, if there's no signature evidence under fingernails, should the jury take that one way or another?" "Absolutely not." "Have you heard of cases where the neck bone or hyoid bone is not broken?" "I've worked lots of homicides by strangulation or asphyxiation and found many without the neck bone being broken, typically in younger adults." "Did you tell me last night at dinner, my neck could easily be broken?" "Yeah, I did tell you that." And they had a little chuckle. Hugo says, "What evidence have you that there was more than one car?" "The Texas ranger said there was some of Courtney's DNA in the trunk, but her car didn't stain. If her body had been that temperature and that badly decomposed, nobody would have been able to drive the car. It would have stunk that bad. Plus, there was a tire track recovered in the dust by her body, and it did not match Courtney's car."
He talked about using luminol to spray the trunk and stuff like that, and that's where they found two small DNA samples. It was her car, it could be anything. If maybe she was put in there immediately after being killed, but she definitely was not transported in that car because the smell would have been unbearable. He said he looked at the tracks, the tires, looked at it and had Louisiana state police analyze them. They said the tire tracks at the scene did not match Courtney Coco's car. Two people had to drive, necessarily two people in the scene there. One person could have pulled in, dumped the body, and pulled it out. The other one could have been waiting on him to follow him to Houston. Hugo says, "Because we only found one tire print, does that mean anything? Does that mean there was only one person there?" And the doctor says, "No."
LaCour gets up on cross and says, "Doc, I'm confused." I'm going to paraphrase for y'all. "Fred Landry's DNA mixed with Courtney's on the truck in the car. How do you know it's not significant?" "If they're having a relationship and he's been in a car, you can't prove it's significant one way or another." "About the cause of death, Doc, or the manner of death, the pathologist said the manner of death was undetermined. The manner death is a word on a legal document." Doc says this, "The manner death is a legal word on a document. The cause of death is the explanation. And due to the cause of death being undetermined, you had to rule it out and call it asphyxiation. For example, if I find a body, a skeleton in the woods and it's got its hands roped behind its back, we rule out trauma or anything else, then the cause is undetermined but it's still a homicide. They didn't tie their own hands behind their back and do whatever."
He goes on about asphyxia. LaCour said, "Well, asphyxiation was a guess by him." The doc says, "No, guess is not the right word to use." "Well, it's an educated guess. He wrote it down. Well, Doc, you can't eliminate the possibility of two people being there." "No, the physical evidence putting her car at the crime scene, there's no physical evidence doing that." "So, the clothes she was wearing was in her bedroom, then they would have had to redress her?" "There were no signs of forced entry on the home. She may have let the person in." LaCour says, "Well, still, letting them in the home shouldn't have been some DNA? "DNA, nothing is 100% accurate."
LaCour is still going at the doctor and he says, "We still can't say her body was done at the crime scene. There's nothing that is 100% accurate." Well, you know what? There's much better ways to hide a body than where Courtney was found. And her body was badly decomposed. There's no way she was there unnoticed for two days." LaCour questioned and says, "Have you been to the scene where it was at?" "No, I haven't been there." And he's talking about dumping a body and does rigor mortis make a body-- "Could rigor mortis make Courtney's limbs curl up, her legs come up in the air and her arms spread out like that?" Doctor said, "No way. I had to defer to the pathologist, but rigor mortis sets in after a couple of hours and gets hard and then it relaxes again, sets in again and it relaxes. There's no way that rigor mortis did that, period." "Well, you say she was in a sex position, her legs spread and arms out and that she was moved after she was dumped." The doctor says, "There's no way that she could spread her arms out like that and raise her legs like that, point her bare vagina at the road after death, period."
Hugo gets up, redirect says, "Is there any other reasonable explanation but sexual motive?" And the doctor says, "No." "Her car wasn't there. Have you worked homicides where killers hide bodies?" "Yeah, I worked a bunch of them. They could hide it behind in the dumpster, whatever." "Is your opinion that Courtney's body was being hidden?" "If they were trying to hide her body, they were doing a really bad job of it. And there was no way rigor can make this happen."
Y'all, I'm going to make this one run along. Next witness is Ms. Stephanie Belgard, Courtney's mama. I'm going to paraphrase it. She said, "I'm Courtney's mama, and I've waited over 18 years to take the stand. Before lunch, I got the call, and Jitty, Floyd Williams, Jr. was her boyfriend." "Did you hear LaCour say Courtney only dated black men?" "Yeah." She showed a picture of Courtney's boyfriend from high school, he was a white guy. Then, they showed it to the jury and all that. "Is there any truth to that?" "No. She dated whomever she dated. Not only black men." She told her about everything I've told y'all or you heard on the podcast. About the last time she saw Courtney when they were going squirrel hunting, she gave her a few dollars and told her, come feed her dogs, and told her to take the loaf of bread. Comes home, the dogs had been fed, gets a phone call from Cedric Green the day after on Monday saying they found a body with Courtney's ring on it. And she fell to the floor.
Hugo showed the picture of the damage to Courtney's car on the front. He said, "Was it like that day when you last saw her?" "No, absolutely not." She went and rode around with her car damaged. And he asked her about the t-shirt and underwear and bra sometimes she sleeps in, and Stephanie was crying. Stephanie said, "My baby girl got bad migraines. Mama would lay down with her sometimes and hold her and rub her head for her. And I noticed she had a bra on." She's like, "Baby, why don’t you take your bra off and get comfortable." They were in a dark room, but most times she did wear a bra to bed. Hugo is like, "So, you're just a mama taking care of your baby girl?" She said, "Yeah."
LaCour gets up, and y'all, this is the shittiest thing I've ever seen. He starts hammering Stephanie on race. I'm going to paraphrase it because I'm not reading this shit. He said, "Isn't it true your daughter only dated black man?" "No." "Well, that picture you showed the jury or Hugo showed the jury was a white guy. Was that her prom or his prom?" "Her prom." "Well, isn't it true she moved out as soon as she was 18 because she liked to date black men and you don't like her dating black men?" "No." "Isn't it true that's a bone of contention that you don't like your daughter mixing races? You didn't want your daughter dating black men?" "No." He was hammering on the race, he just kept making it about race. He was like, "It was black men, and you didn’t like your daughter dating black men, and you know she was dating a bunch of black men. She didn't date no white men." I'm thinking, "What the fuck are you doing this for? The fucking defendant's white." He's hammering her on it over and over again. Stephanie's sitting there crying.
Now, I'm thinking, "He didn't go this hard on Lace, he didn't go this hard on Michelle or Ms. Ina or anybody." He is playing the race card times a billion. He wanted to paint Stephanie as a racist, and she's not, y'all. Basically, LaCour quit. Oh, no, Stephanie said to him, "I wouldn't care if they were purple, black, yellow, or green. The problem I had was the men she was dated were taking advantage of her." Hugo gets up on redirect and says, "So you didn't have a problem with whatever race she dated? You had a problem with your daughter being taken advantage of? "Yeah."
I'm Woody Overton, your host of Real Life Real Crime, the podcast. LOPA, be an organ donor. Go to lopa.org to sign up. If you're a Lifer from [unintelligible [00:51:19] and you want to become an organ donor, you don't have to be from Louisiana. Go to lopa.org, fill out the two-minute thing. Become one. Be a hero. Give it a gift of life. Thank you, Patreon Convicts. Thank y'all, Lifers. Love y'all.
I'm Woody Overton, your host of Real Life Real Crime, the podcast. Until next time or ever, don’t let me catch you down on murder by you. Peace.
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[Transcript provided by SpeechDocs Podcast Transcription]
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