Design Doc

Levels of Doneness Oct 29, 2024

The Kickstarter for Escape from Wonderland is LIVE! Support the game here!

How do you know when a game is ready for Kickstarter? How far along should it be before bringing it to the world? In this episode, we talk about the delicate balance of presentation—slick, but not *too* slick; done, but not *too* done. We explored how crowdfunding has changed for small creators now that big, well-resourced companies are bringing their games to Kickstarter too. When faced with a rising standard of "doneness," should we try to match them, or pave our own scrappy way?

Mentioned in this episode:

Yes, L'Oreal did do a Kickstarter (we're not linking to it).
Double Fine's adventure game Kickstarter (for the game that would eventually be called Broken Age).
Czech Dream documentary.

Links/Credits:

Website: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/

Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/

Support Design Doc on Patreon: Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun

Support Design Doc with a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/designdoc

Get in touch:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Judging a Book by Its Cover Oct 16, 2024

The first conversation we've had about cover design in games! We discuss how book covers are often the first thing people see of our games, how a well-designed cover can stick in someone's memory, and how a great cover isn't just about first impressions—it can make you want to pick up a book again and again.

And a special thanks to our editor, Rob, for letting us know that yes, Scholastic Book Fairs do still exist. Link here: https://bookfairs.scholastic.com

Covers mentioned:

The Martian Chronicles (Link to cover, art by Michael Whelan)

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (Link)

The Golden Compass (Link to cover, art by Eric Rohmann)

Our covers mentioned, all by Evan Rowland:

Questlandia original edition

Questlandia second edition

Noirlandia

Mud: A Golem Memoir

Links/Credits:

Website: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/

Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/

Support Design Doc with a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/designdoc

Get in touch:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

The Ideas You'll Be Buried With Oct 02, 2024

One of the hardest lessons in game design is coming to terms with the fact that many of our favorite ideas will remain unrealized. In this episode, we explore the games we may never complete, our lingering dream of bringing them to life, and how accepting their incompleteness might help us face the reality of death.

Links/Credits:

Website: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/

Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/

Support Design Doc with a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/designdoc

Get in touch:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

https://turtlebun.com/pages/downloads

Designing a Spooky Game (Part 4): Finally, the Playtest Sep 18, 2024

Evan and Hannah try playing their new game with a very rough draft of the rules, in a cross between a playtest and design session. New ideas and new questions abound as they explore uncharted territory.

To follow along with the design, Questlandia character sheets and reference rules can be downloaded for free here:

Questlandia can be purchased here:

https://turtlebun.itch.io/questlandia-second-edition

https://turtlebun.com/products/questlandia

Links/Credits:

Website: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/

Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/

Support Design Doc with a coffee: https://ko-fi.com/designdoc

Get in touch:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

The Pizza or the Basket? (Amusement Park Horror w/ Alanna Shaffer) Sep 04, 2024

We're joined by public historian and musical improviser Alanna Shaffer to discuss real-world amusement park horror and Dippin' Dots scams at Dorney Park.

Alanna shares thoughts about story vs plot, new character drives, and everyone's personal breaking point after a day with no water. To see Alanna and Thank You, Places in person, check out their monthly improvised musical every last Thursday of the month at Tavern on Camac!

Links/Credits:

Website: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/

Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/

Support Design Doc with a one-time tip: https://ko-fi.com/designdoc

Get in touch:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Turtlebun Discord (we chat about Design Doc here!): https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

https://turtlebun.com/pages/downloads

Designing a Spooky Game (Part 3): Mr. Bones' Wild Ride Aug 21, 2024

We continue our design of a creepy amusement park game, starting with the question, "What does bad behavior look like in an amusement park?" In this episode, we begin with a lot of questions, and end with a roadmap to a first playtest that includes character weaknesses, theme park-related goals, and an unreliable park map filled with skulls and crossbones.

To follow along with the design, Questlandia character sheets and reference rules can be downloaded for free here:

Questlandia can be purchased here:

https://turtlebun.itch.io/questlandia-second-edition

https://turtlebun.com/products/questlandia

Links/Credits:

Website: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/

Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/

Support Design Doc with a one-time tip: https://ko-fi.com/designdoc

Get in touch:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Designing a Spooky Game (Part 2): The Setting Aug 07, 2024

How can you use simple rules to create a complex setting? In the second part of this live design series, Hannah and Evan take a swing at world and character mechanics. To create a spooky, surreal environment, they’re forced to come up with new ways to approach worldbuilding and character design.

Links/Credits:

Website: turtlebun.com

Support Design Doc with a one-time tip: https://ko-fi.com/designdoc

Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/

Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/

Get in touch:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Designing a Spooky Game (Part 1): The Brainstorm Jul 25, 2024

What makes a game hack manageable in scope and size? Hannah and Evan delve back into game design to create a creepy amusement park Questlandia hack on the fly. They begin by brainstorming moods, moments, mechanics, and materials for a spoooooky game. From doppelgangers to malevolent crowds to corn dogs, they end with a wealth of ideas for the next design session.

Links/Credits:

Website: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by ipaghost: https://www.ipaghost.com/

Episode edited by Rob Abrazado: https://robabrazado.com/

Get in touch:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

The Founder Olympics Jun 27, 2024

Hannah and Evan face off in a battle of inspiration and ego to outdo each other's most founder ideas. Then, they set impostor syndrome aside and dilute those ideas down to something they'd both be willing to try.

Links/Credits:

Website: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Jingle news by Jay_You -- https://freesound.org/s/460424/ -- License: Attribution 4.0

Get in touch:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

twitter.com/turtleandbun

twitter.com/designdocpod

Our Best Design Doc Ideas Jun 03, 2024

From Mood, Moments, Mechanics, Materials (MMMM) to "Be aware, be charming," our Design Doc conversations over the years have inspired some of our favorite game design ideas. We talk about the ideas that have had a lasting impact on our game design, and how we're incorporating each one into our most recent project.

Show notes:

Okay, Let's Redesign Noirlandia, for Mood, Moments, Mechanics, Materials

Scopeful Optimism, for discussion of scope

FLETs, for fiddly little end things

Imperfect Inspiration

Kudos Conundrum

Numbers Hide Everything

Founder Energy

Fish People, for "Be aware, be charming"

High Life (2018 film)

Lincoln in the Bardo (2017 George Saunders novel)

Links/Credits:

Website: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Get in touch:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Turtlebun Discord: https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

twitter.com/turtleandbun

twitter.com/designdocpod

The Taste Talent Gap May 03, 2024

Public radio icon Ira Glass has a famous quote describing the gap between taste and talent in trying to hone your creative work. When you start out, your tastes are always bigger than your skill. It's a frustrating gap, and one that causes a lot of people to give up.

In this episode we talk about everything that plays a part in the taste-skill gap. From personal energy and health, to money, ability, mood, and your relationship to the project as a whole. We talk about how our changing tastes have made our recent work all the more challenging.

EPISODE MENTIONS:

Ira Glass on the taste-talent gap: https://youtu.be/91FQKciKfHI?si=2PxIFIGoOwWvM7ty

Chris Ware's Building Stories: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/21/books/review/building-stories-by-chris-ware.html

Design Doc episode 49, Imperfect Inspiration: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/imperfect-inspiration/id1298080097?i=1000570727332

LINKS/CREDIT

Website: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

GET IN TOUCH:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Join the Turtlebun Discord! https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Turtlebun Twitter: twitter.com/turtleandbun

Design Doc on Twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Adapting a Text Apr 11, 2024

Hannah and Evan talk about how to transform a beloved movie, book, or show into a game, using their latest project as an example: An adaptation of a 1779 book of cosmetic chemistry, The Toilet of Flora.

EPISODE LINKS/CREDITS:

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Project Gutenberg: https://www.gutenberg.org/

Toilet of Flora: https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/44276

OUR GAMES:

Website: turtlebun.com

GET IN TOUCH:

Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Join the Turtlebun Discord! https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Turtlebun Twitter: twitter.com/turtleandbun

Design Doc on Twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Working around a Job Mar 20, 2024

In a perfect world, we'd make a living just making roleplaying games. But sometimes, duty calls, and you've got to work around another job. In this episode, we talk about rolling with the punches in a moment when the creative work is competing with a new and time-consuming reality—that of a day job.

FOLLOW/CREDITS:

Our games: turtlebun.com

Join the Turtlebun Discord! https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Get in touch! Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Turtlebun Twitter: twitter.com/turtleandbun

Design Doc on Twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Obsessions Feb 21, 2024

What’s the difference between a “theme” and an “obsession?” Inspired by a classic writing book from the ‘80s, we share our respective obsessions and talk about how they show up in our work, intentionally or otherwise.

EPISODE MENTIONS:

Learn how to play Go: https://online-go.com/learn-to-play-go

Learn how to smell things (Introduction to Perfumery Kit or Perfumery Notes Kit from Perfumer’s Apprentice): https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/c-58-educational-kits.aspx

Writing Down the Bones (book by Natalie Goldberg)

Synecdoche, New York (film)

The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity (book by Graeber and Wengrow)

A Pattern Language (architecture and urban design book by Alexander, Ishikawa, Silverstein)

Eating Raoul (film)

The Clock Crew (Newgrounds wiki link)

FOLLOW/CREDITS:

Our games: turtlebun.com

Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun

Join the Turtlebun Discord! https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Get in touch! Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Instagram: instagram.com/turtleandbun

Turtlebun Twitter: twitter.com/turtleandbun

Design Doc on Twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Better Never Than Late? Jan 11, 2024

Kickstarter stretch goals are notorious for getting project creators into trouble. Sometimes, they over promise content. Other times, they create financial strain. Often, it's all of the above. In this episode, we talk about Top Tracks, a stretch goal project we just completed that's so overdue... nobody even remembered it.

CW: This episode contains a discussion of sexual harassment.

EPISODE LINKS/CREDITS:

Top Tracks! https://turtlebun.itch.io/damntheman (under Download Demo)

Our games: turtlebun.com

Join the Turtlebun Discord! https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Get in touch! Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Turtlebun Twitter: twitter.com/turtleandbun

Design Doc on Twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Designing Alone, but Not Lonely Dec 18, 2023

In this episode, Hannah talks about the art of doing creative work alone. As part of a game design duo that normally does all creative work together, what does it look like to self-motivate on game design solo? From setting small, manageable goals and little rewards in advance to finding companionship in the work itself.

MENTIONED IN EPISODE:

Scavengers Reign (animated mini series) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt21056886/

Health Minds App (available for free on the Apple app store and Google Play) - https://hminnovations.org/meditation-app

EPISODE LINKS/CREDITS:

Our games: turtlebun.com

Join the Turtlebun Discord! https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Get in touch! Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Turtlebun Twitter: twitter.com/turtleandbun

Design Doc on Twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Design Session: What Makes a Good Solo RPG? Nov 15, 2023

We love making solo RPGs, but we don't always love playing them. In this episode we brainstorm ideas for a possible one-player version of Questlandia, and what would make us excited to play it.

EPISODE LINKS/CREDITS:

Our games: turtlebun.com

Join the Turtlebun Discord! https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Get in touch! Designdocpod (at) gmail (dot) com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Turtlebun Twitter: twitter.com/turtleandbun

Design Doc on Twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Will We Ever Finish Questlandia 2? Oct 24, 2023

This month marks the sixth anniversary of Design Doc, a podcast that started as a "year-long" project documenting our progress redesigning our first roleplaying game. Six years later, we talk about the different directions we've taken, and what Questlandia 2 means to us today.

EPISODE LINKS/CREDITS:

Our games: turtlebun.com

Turtlebun Twitter: twitter.com/turtleandbun

https://ko-fi.com/designdoc

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

The Liminal Spaces of Six Flags Sep 26, 2023

Hannah and Evan talk about the strange designs and abandoned places of Six Flags New England, the latest of a series of research trips. Join them on a jeep ride in the Jurassic, through the ghost town of Crackaxle, and into secret corners filled with claw machines.

SUPPORT OUR VISIT BACK TO SIX FLAGS HERE:

EPISODE LINKS/CREDITS:

Our games: turtlebun.com

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

"People Were Shorter Back Then" (Guest ep w/ historical interpreter Enzo!) Aug 24, 2023

Former historical interpreter Enzo joins us to talk about interpreting history! A few months ago we visited Old Sturbridge Village, an 1830s rural New England recreation village. We went as naive visitors, only able to guess at how it was run. Our guest today was kind enough to share his memories of working at the museum! We discuss what it was like interacting with pass-holder guests, being the groom in a historic wedding, and sneaking off to take smoke breaks away from the prying eyes of modernity.

Thanks again to Enzo for sharing his time and knowledge with us!

Episode links:

To learn more about Old Sturbridge Village, visit their website here: www.osv.org

Turtlebun links:

Our games: turtlebun.com

Join our Discord! discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Old Sturbridge Village Jul 28, 2023

In this episode Hannah and Evan describe their recent trip to Sturbridge Village, an 1800s recreation historical town. They talk about the value of on-the-ground research for creative projects, the peculiarity of animal habitats in fantasy places, and some dredged-up financial controversies paving the ye olde village streets.

Episode mentions:

Sturbridge Village: https://www.osv.org/
Jenny Nicholson video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9OhTB5eBqQ
The Maze Runner (film): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Maze_Runner_(film)

Turtlebun links:

Our games: turtlebun.com
Patreon: patreon.com/turtlebun
Twitter: twitter.com/turtleandbun
Instagram: instagram.com/turtleandbun
We have a Discord! https://discord.gg/XD4WVDjvbz

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Founder Energy Jul 05, 2023

We talk about bringing confidence to our own work, including our recent scent-inspired game ideas. We're working on bringing that founder hustle without a toxic founder morality. Plus, we've got two new projects in the works inspired by olfactive poetry!

1:25 - Founder energy

13:58 - Project Gutenberg

32:32 - Pie Girl

Episode Links and Credits

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Mentioned in this episode

Outsider Comics in Seattle - https://outsidercomics.com/

Project Gutenberg - https://www.gutenberg.org/

The Art of Perfumery by G. W. Septimus Piesse (1857) - https://www.gutenberg.org/files/16378/16378-h/16378-h.htm

Turtlebun links

Our games: turtlebun.com

Fish People Jun 06, 2023

In a much-requested episode topic, Hannah and Evan talk about WORLDBUILDING. We narrow in on three worldbuilding faux pas we're trying to be aware of in our own work: Word swapping, "Fish People," and the dreaded authorial insert.

Episode Mentions:

Lincoln in the Bardo: novel by George Saunders

Upload: comedy-drama series

Episode Links and Credits:

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Turtlebun Links

Our other games: turtlebun.com

Focusing on Focus May 10, 2023

Hannah and Evan discuss their personal experiences and struggles with focus. A new kind of work requires long stretches of sustained focus, disrupting old routines and demanding new strategies. They delve into the challenges and rewards of dodging distractions and shepherding wandering thoughts.

Timestamps:

00:55 - Introduction. The need to transition from sprint focus to something more sustained.

10:10 - Our different styles of focus and how we work together: Switching off the role of cheerleader, having a plan and holding to routines; setting boundaries with friends, family, ourselves.

18:17 - Switching to long-form work. Ramping up, getting into a flow, building a slower momentum.

23:51 - External and internal distractions. When the work becomes its own distraction.

32:26 - The dynamic tension, the ongoing battle; eliminating distractions vs the resolve to ignore and power through. Self-esteem.

35:25 - How the switch to long-form focus has helped our work in games.

38:04 - Closing thoughts. What we’ve learned, the ritual of it.

Mentioned in this episode:

Deep Work by Cal Newport (We feel "meh" about this one)

Stolen Focus by Johann Hari (We liked this one)

Links and credits:

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Our games: turtlebun.com

We're Writing a Novel Mar 28, 2023

Hannah and Evan talk about what it's like to tackle a very different type of creative work—writing a novel! We discuss the fun parts and the challenges of being two people trying to hone in on a single narrative voice.

Mentioned in this episode:

3-Act Structure: Abbie Emmons on YouTube

Passing mentions: Douglas Adams, Kurt Vonnegut, Robert A. Heinlein, House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski, Over the Garden Wall (Episode 5: Mad Love)

Episode Links and Credits:

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Turtlebun Links

Our other games: turtlebun.com

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/turtlebun/public-guest-five

Packed With Care (Part 2) Feb 16, 2023

Hannah and Evan discuss the trials and tribulations of packing a "deluxe" edition of Questlandia and the ridiculous mishaps that ensued.

They chat fancy boxes, missing fonts, and making creative use of a limited budget.

Episode Links and Credits:

Our Kickstarter for a poster print run of our one-page single-player RPG Public Guest 5 ends tonight, February 16th at 8pm EST. You can support the project here:

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Turtlebun Links

Our other games: turtlebun.com

Packed With Care (Part 1) Jan 13, 2023

Hannah and Evan talk about the increasingly complicated logistics of packing and shipping games as small creators.

In this episode, we talk all about packing and shipping. Where do you get bubble wrap when you need more than a roll, but less than a warehouse's-worth? What happens when a printer you've worked with for years really messes up, with no chance to fix it? All this and more in part 1, with part 2 to come.

Episode Links and Credits

The sticker makers we work with: https://stickerninja.com/

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Turtlebun links

Questlandia 2nd Edition: turtlebun.com/products/questlandia

Our other games: turtlebun.com

Actually selling our games Dec 23, 2022

We made the games, now we have to sell them. Hannah and Evan talk about something they're good at: making new games. And something they're bad at: confidently sharing those games with an audience that might like them.

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Turtlebun links

Questlandia 2nd Edition: turtlebun.com/products/questlandia

Our other games: turtlebun.com

What to do when you're sick of your game Nov 10, 2022

Hannah and Evan discuss how to repair their relationship with a game they've spent a year struggling to complete.

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Mentioned in this episode:

Microscope RPG by Ben Robbins.

Turtlebun links

Our games: turtlebun.com

FLETs (Fiddly Little End Things) Oct 05, 2022

Hannah and Evan talk about the fiddly little end things that make a project go on, and on, and on much longer than you expected.

Design Doc intro/outro theme by Pat King

Design Doc on twitter: twitter.com/designdocpod

Turtlebun links

Our games: turtlebun.com