Feeding the Soul: A Conversation with José Andrés and Laysha Ward
Feb 02, 2024
This episode features an extraordinary conversation between chef and humanitarian José Andrés and Target strategic advisor Laysha Ward.
Andrés’s work with World Central Kitchen recently earned him a nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize. In this conversation, which was recorded at the 2023 Pennsylvania Conference for Women, we’ll hear about his work fighting hunger, the power of compassion, adaptive leadership, and effecting positive social change.
Learn from his vision for creating a more equitable and nourished world — and identify small ways in which you, too, can make a difference and have an impact.
Our Guest: José Andrés
José Andrés, named one of Time magazine’s 100 Most Influential People in 2012 and 2018, and awarded the 2015 National Humanities Medal from President Barack Obama, is an internationally recognized humanitarian, culinary innovator, educator, and New York Times bestselling author. A pioneer of Spanish tapas in the United States, he is also known for his groundbreaking avant-garde cuisine and his award-winning restaurant collective, JoséAndrésGroup. In 2021, he launched José Andrés Media (JAM) which produces television series, books, podcasts, and digital content with a focus on food-related stories and the culture of food. JAM projects include the Emmy-nominated series José & Family in Spain for Max and the Longer Tables podcast. In 2023, Andrés and George Washington University partnered to lead the world in delivering food system solutions through a Global Food Institute, powered by interdisciplinary research and teaching. In 2010, Andrés founded World Central Kitchen, a non-profit which uses the power of food to nourish communities and strengthen economies in times of crisis and beyond. WCK continues to respond to natural disasters ranging from hurricanes, wildfires, and earthquakes, as well as humanitarian emergencies around the world. Andrés’ work has earned awards and distinctions, including Outstanding Chef and Humanitarian of the Year by the James Beard Foundation and the 2017 Lifetime Achievement Award from the International Association of Culinary Professionals. Andrés and World Central Kitchen were awarded the Princesa de Asturias Foundation’s 2021 Concordia Prize. As a naturalized citizen originally from Spain, Andrés has also been a tireless advocate for immigration reform.
Guest Host: Laysha Ward
Laysha Ward is an accomplished C-suite executive with 32 years of leadership experience at Target, where she now serves as Strategic Advisor. In 2017, Ms. Ward was named Executive Vice President, Chief External Engagement Officer, overseeing Target’s enterprise-wide approach to engage and deepen relationships with cross-sector stakeholders to drive positive business and community impact. She is a founding member of the Racial Equity Action and Change committee (REACH), established in 2020 to help lead the organization’s strategy to drive lasting impact for Black team members, guests and communities. Ms. Ward began her career with Target in 1991 as a member of the store sales and management team of Marshall Fields in Chicago. She was named Director of Community Relations in 2000 and promoted to Vice President of Community Relations and Target Foundation in 2003. She previously served as Executive Vice President, Chief Corporate Social Responsibility Officer before being named to her current position. In 2008, President Bush nominated and the U.S. Senate confirmed Ms. Ward to serve on the board of directors of the Corporation for National and Community Service, the nation’s largest grantmaker for volunteering and service. She continued on the board under the Obama Administration, where she served as board chair. Later that year, she was promoted to President of Community Relations and the Target Foundation. She serves on the Aspen Institute Latinos and Society Advisory Board and the Stanford Center for Longevity Advisory Council; is a member of the Executive Leadership Council, the Economic Clubs of New York and Chicago, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, and The Links, and serves on the boards of Greater MSP, the Minnesota Orchestra, and the Northside Achievement Zone. Laysha is also a member of Denny’s Corporation board of directors and United Airlines board of directors. She received a bachelor’s degree from Indiana University, master’s degree from the University of Chicago, and an Honorary Doctorate of Laws from the University of Minnesota’s Humphrey School of Public Affairs. She and her husband, Bill, reside in Minneapolis, MN.
Women Amplified Host: Celeste Headlee
Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Additional Resources:
JoséAndrés.com (for more about the chef and his restaurants)
Join us for a groundbreaking virtual gathering this March 14th at the very first National Conference for Women. Enjoy powerhouse speakers, digital networking opportunities, and more — no travel required. Get your ticket today!
Laysha Ward: Well, we are about to have a conversation that will be food for our souls, so I really appreciate you all giving us your full attention. You are in for a real treat, Jose, you are of course an extraordinary human, a world renowned chef. He has four Michelin stars, over 30 restaurants worldwide. You are an author, a podcast host, you’re also a humanitarian, a dad, a partner. So many extraordinary things. And so I’d like to have our conversation start back in the early days, okay?
José Andrés: Okay.
Laysha Ward: You came over to the United States at the early age of 21 as an immigrant with the equivalent of about $50 in your pocket, which is extraordinary and built your business empire and became an expert philanthropic icon in hunger relief. And so I’m just curious, given the journey that you’ve been on, you’ve learned so much about leadership and perseverance and determination. What would be some of the leadership lessons that you could share with all of us?
José Andrés: Well, wow, I always say that every one of us, every one of you, we are who we are. Thanks to the people that surround who we are in the present in the past, people that sometimes forget people that sometimes you have to be a grown up person to have memories and to realize that that person was a far away, more influential person in your life than you ever thought. And I will say that early memories and unfortunately something I realized when I became much older but will be my mom, I didn’t have, life is complicated, right? And I didn’t have what I would say the best relationship with my mom, but nobody could give more thanks to who I am today than my mom. And often now that she’s not any longer with us, I maybe have a regret that I wish I did. And that’s why I always tell everybody, open up your mind and your heart, especially to those people that they help you be who you are. But my mom was an excellent cook. She was the cook at home Monday through Friday. My father helped my three brothers and I would help, but my father was more the weekend cook. But my mom, She will be this magician that at the end of the month when there was no more money and my father and mother had to wait for the next paycheck, she will go into the fridge. And when sometimes the fridge, when you go to Best Buy or Target, Thank you, and you are buying and you buy a new fridge and it’s empty at the end of the month, the fridge look like this in my house and my mom will be able to get the last remaining little piece from the roasted chicken and half a boiled egg and out of nothing, she will make this bacha milk with flour and milk. She will add the chopped chicken and the chopped egg, and she will make this amazing croquetas with the bread that was left over during the week. She will use the coffee grinder to make breadcrumbs. That’s why the coffee in my house was always very thick And my mom will make those croquetas. That to this day, if you ask my brothers and I, what is the most amazing memories was us helping my mom, making the croquetas, us helping my mom fry the croquetas, but especially sitting down and making sure that everybody got the right amount of croquetas equally between the brothers. There was not only my mom showing me what a talented cook she was, but was my mom also the loving mother feeding us even when sometimes at the end of the month was again, no more money. She was showing us as a cook that now I am a humanitarian. I didn’t realize that she was the person that in me made me understand that we can do a lot even when we feel we have nothing. So I will say that my mom in these early parts of my life was the person that planted the seed on me of knowledge is power. Many years later in 1993, I was in different low-income parts of Washington DC sharing the Croquetas story and the croquetas recipe of my mother with families that they needed knowledge about how to feed their families without spending a lot of money. If you think about it, life is a beautiful story that sometimes we forget to connect the dots, but now I understand why my mom taught me when I was a young boy, six, seven, 8-year-old boy. That story, that progeta recipe, I’ve been able to bring that story to many other parts of my life in this case, in a low income neighborhood in Washington DC that I know now many of the people are passing the legacy of my mom.
Laysha Ward: And what’s so powerful about that is you also found a way to build a connection to that community, right? A way for them to see that you in many ways were more alike than different. And what a beautiful story to celebrate not only your mother, but so many of the moms in this room who are making a way out of no way for their families as well. Really powerful. I love that story. And the connection to something you said too about your mom teaching you about being able to feed people, right? It seems to me that you’ve always been called to, that feeding people connected to your purpose in a way. Why is that beyond this sort of lesson from your mother, do you think you’ve been called into that as a vocation?
José Andrés: Well, I think my father told you that he will cook on the weekends and he will cook for everybody who will come. My father will not keep track of who they will invite. And my mom, who was the one that had to make sure everything will work, how many people you invited? 10 or 30. My father for that was a very easy guy in his answers. He always thought that big problems have very simple solutions. So when sometimes my mom or my brothers and I will tell, but daddy, how many people are coming? If more people come, what do we do? No problem. We only add more rice to Japan. But for me, it was a moment that was very iconic in my life. I arrived Washington DC in 1993 and three years later, 1996 was a building red brick mortar building and they were doing construction and somebody found the belongings boxes of somebody that somebody was a woman that used that red brick building as the home and as the office, that red brick mortar building was the house where this woman created the office of the missing soldier’s office. One person, a nurse like my mom that thought that we had to be bringing light to what happened to the many people that perished or disappeared during the American Civil War. That woman was Clara Barton. That’s the woman that also created the American Red Cross. And this is kind of a very early example in my life that I saw this person, this woman, like my mom, she put her knowledge not only to take care of the few, but her knowledge and her way to see the world, to help the many. We all do have that talent in a way, she’s a person. Even I never met her because already her story is distant, that she also planted the seed and sent a message saying, we all have a talent. Who do you send to stop a fire when there is one in the city? The firefighters. Who do you send to take care of the wounded after explosion or in a war zone? Doctors and nurses. Who do you think will be the best person you can send to feed people after an emergency? You see, again, simple, a big problem sometimes have simple solutions. Clara Barton in a way, after I began reading and knowing more about her, she showed me that sometimes every one of us, every one of you have that talent to do so much more. You only have to believe in yourself
Laysha Ward: Clearly. You have believed in yourself clearly. And I’m struck and moved by how you have been called into serving during disasters and crises, right? Trying to make sure that people are fed and nourished in some of the most challenging times of their lives. And in fact, you said something here, you once were quoted to say something about being a chef makes you uniquely qualified for disaster relief and crisis. What do you mean by that?
José Andrés: Well, okay, all of you go to restaurants, right?
Laysha Ward: I
José Andrés: Do. Raise your hand if you go to a restaurant once a week, welcome people. We need you. I have cookbooks, but the recipes don’t really work. Why? I want you to cook at home when I need you to come to my restaurant.
Laysha Ward: I spend a lot to your restaurants and they’re all fabulous, I might add,
José Andrés: But restaurants are places that they can be very chaotic. There’s a lot of chaos in a restaurant on a Friday night. Everybody has garlic. Is shrimp with no garlic? I No, it’s rem. And on top of that, I cannot pronounce his rem. Yeah, you tell me about it.
Speaker 8: But how is it?
José Andrés: So restaurants are displaced that you have, you can plan all you want, and we all live life with a plan. And sometimes life doesn’t come with instructions. You tell me, I very became a husband and is like, how is the instructions to be a good husband? You become a father. What are the instructions to be a good father? And very often we are all trained and prepared to follow a plan, the plan of life. What happens when things don’t go as planned that we fail? Because sometimes we stop because we’ve been trained all our lives to follow that plan. And when we don’t see the door in an I way, we freeze. We need to start embracing the complexities of the moment in our private lives, in our families, in our communities, in our work. And we need to embrace that complexity and start talking about adaptation. Let’s adapt to every moment. Let’s adapt to every situation. Let’s make sure that every time something happens, it’s a moment for us to raise above the issue we are trying to solve. And for that, let me tell you, and not because I am in a conference for women, but if you ask me who is the most capable people in the world, not to follow a plan but to adapt, I have all of you in front of me. Women are ready to adapt to any circumstance. I’ve seen it with my mom, I’ve seen it with my grandmas, I’ve seen it with my wife. Adaptation will win the day. That’s why we need more women up there in places of power, from companies to countries. Guys, we’ve been running the world away with too many mens and take a look, the message we are creating. So what every one of you is waiting for to run for every single office, Republicans and Democrats, independence, I don’t care. We need you up there helping us adapt to the lives and moments we are living.
Laysha Ward: Amen. Can I have the crowd say amen? Amen. I love that adaptive leadership so important. We spend a lot of time talking about that at Target as well. It’s important to have adaptive leadership qualities and I do agree that more women leaders make a big difference in an organization and in the world, and we have a lot of extraordinary women leaders
José Andrés: Here. You are adapting. I am. Are you going to help me give a big round of applause. She’s been working at Target for 32 years and she’s retiring next year and still she has another lifetime ahead of her. Yeah,
Laysha Ward: Thank you. Yeah,
José Andrés: I already know somebody should be running for office.
Laysha Ward: Thank you very much. She and I were just talking. We’re the same age, by the way. So he’s my brother from another mother, and I shared with him that on Tuesday I did announce after 32 years I’ll be retiring in April. And so I’m excited to adapt and have another chapter. So I’m feeling very blessed and grateful and highly favored to think about the ways that I can continue to have an impact in the world. So very kind of you to turn that spotlight on me, not to you as well, but I’m going to turn the spotlight back on you. Okay? Okay. And it’s a spotlight so well-deserved. I’ve been following you for a long time and I was so inspired by the work that you’ve been doing in Ukraine just yet another example of where you go to where there is such extraordinary need. And when you go into these places, it must be difficult to know exactly what to do when you hit the ground. So much chaos. And to your point, adaptive leadership is likely a component of that. But how do you figure out what to do first in such a complicated situation? And then how do you also continue to engage and inspire and mobilize your teams because they have to be there for an extended period of time providing those critical services, incredibly dangerous settings.
José Andrés: Yeah. Well, so in my life it’s been beyond my restaurants and my family and especially my wife, who I will not lie to you if I don’t tell you everything I am today. It wouldn’t be happening if I didn’t have my wife Patricia next to me. I love that.
Laysha Ward: Let’s give it up for that
José Andrés: Because she gave me the freedom to do things but not use the freedom, the wise words and the support and the wisdom and the whispers in the ear. Yeah, without my wife, I wouldn’t do much of what I’ve ever done. But organizations for me were important is this is RA Kitchen. Anybody from Washington DC here? Marianne, Virginia. Oh, I love you too. This is RA Kitchen. I arrive as a young cook and I’m not going to make it long. But anytime any one of you is in DC, please visit DC Central Kitchen. This was funded by a man called Robert Egger. He’s retired now and he’s the guy that told me that philanthropy seems always is about the redemption of the giver. When philanthropy must be about the liberation of the receiver, this is a big phrase, powerful phrase. We all do good, but we must all do a smart good. So this organization was great because it was fighting food waste. But more important, we were fighting not wasting people’s life. And this organization will get people out of the streets sometimes drugs, drug addicts. One of the early teachers was, she’s not any longer with us, Marianne Ali, she became like a sister to me. She was a woman that came from the streets, torn her life around and became the one teaching everybody coming from the streets or from jail in how they could be themselves, agents of change for themselves and for the community. So this Isra Kitchen did that food waste, giving opportunity to people, training them to be cooks, putting everything together in the process, producing 10, 20,000 meals a day and feeding the community and in the process restaurants like me. We could be hiring those amazing people. $1. $1 to give opportunity to people, $1 to train people, $1 to rescue food, waste $1 to feed the homeless, $1 to employ people around the city, $1 multiply five 10 times
José Andrés: Impact. And this showed me the power of food to change the world. One community at a time. War central kitchen use happened because I was too comfortable when I was watching the horrors of after hurricanes New Orleans, Katrina, category five, hurricane, thousands of Americans, low nine forgotten, no way to go help, no activation for adaptation because the plans were no longer feasible. But we had tens, thousands of people in the Superdome and we forgot about them. Do you know what the Superdome is? An arena, a stadium. Everybody thinks it’s a place for sports or music, but everybody’s wrong. An arena, a baseball stadium, an FL stadium. It’s a gigantic restaurant that entertains with the sports and music. Everybody’s sitting hotdogs in the baseball stadium. So imagine if we were able to go activate the community, people that were stranded there and just open the same places that in the good times are feeding, but now transforming those places to feed people in need.
Laysha Ward: And you’ve been doing that in the United States and all over the
José Andrés: World. So this is how ation began. I watched from the comfort of my home how Katrina was unfolding. I didn’t go. I was younger. It’s not like I could escape my work. But then Haiti happened. 2010, one of the biggest earthquakes in the history, hundreds of thousands of people die.
Laysha Ward: Devastating.
José Andrés: The devastation beyond imagination. I went there on my own with two friends with one simple idea, not to help but let me go to learn. And that’s how the beginning of war drag action was. That’s
Laysha Ward: Extraordinary.
José Andrés: To go to emergencies, the latest one, we are right now helping feed people in Israel that they lost life. And because the Hamas attack we’re also in GAA helping Palestinians, we’re providing support from Egypt at the end. We are building longer tables. We all are one. We all need to wish for others what we wish for our own. What Zen Drag Kitchen does is trying to build longer tables.
Laysha Ward: It’s such a powerful message. Building longer tables, food as a source of unification, nourishment, as I said earlier, we’re going to be nourishing our souls here and you’re teaching us about nourishing not only our own souls, but the souls of others. And it’s a really powerful message. I would say that some of the ways that you’ve done that successfully is through one of your gifts, which is storytelling. You do an extraordinary job of taking things that are complex and at times divisive and humanizing it. And I do think it’s through powerful storytelling that people can begin to find ways of connecting. And you have a whole business around that. You have a production company and are doing a lot of amazing things to share powerful stories that engage and inspire us and give us hope and inspiration. So could you tell us a little bit about storytelling and why you have that business?
José Andrés: We mentioned about Wall Central Kitchen. If anybody wants to learn more about Wall Central Kitchen, a Disney plus. Ron Howard, the amazing director, did the story of Wall Central Kitchen. It’s called We Feed People. Very simple name. It’s beautiful. And there you’re going to see the work of the man and woman of Wolf Kitchen all across America, and especially all across the world now. But I do believe storytelling is important. I’m not a good painter. I’m not a good writer. You see my English, my daughters tell me when I was young, when I was a younger dad going to school, daddy, please speak Spanish to us and we’ll translate. I’m like, really? As an immigrant, my love, I know the country come from, and I know also the country belong. I’m a very proud immigrant. I feel I’ve been all my time, all my life an immigrant, and I believe immigrants like me. Even I felt an immigrant in Spain growing up because in the moment you move from one region to another, even if Spain, it’s like you are an immigrant in a way. We’re all immigrants. It’s beyond flags and borders, but immigrants, we all have the responsibility to build bridges. So right now, for example, I have this amazing show on CNN and this is a commercial which is called Jose Andres and family in Spain. Not very creative name, no, but
Laysha Ward: It’s lovely. It’s with him and his
José Andrés: Daughters. But tells the story of the country I came from, but also tells the story of three daughters who are rolling the eyes every time your dad speaks. So I invite you to watch it. It’s on Sundays at 9:00 PM It’s lovely, Jose Andre. But then there’s many more stories we need to be telling. One story I want to be telling and we don’t know, we’re talking about woman, an empowering woman. Over 3 billion people on planet earth cook with charcoal fossil fuels as the only way to feed their families. Those 3 billion people you know who fits the world. Every time you read about, there’s always chefs who seem they’re the top chefs in the cities. But can I tell you who fits the world? Who is in every little town that has no name is always woman. Women are the ones feeding the world. And what we need to make sure that in the process of feeding the world, women are not putter because it’s very important that they are not. Because very often they are the mother of their family, if not all the time, and cannot be that in the process of feeding their families. Many women die because they inhale the smoke, they overspend money because the charcoal keeps burning and they over buy charcoal to feed the families when they’re only making $3 a day, but they’re spending 20, 30, 40 cents a day to cook one meal. Deforestation, young girls don’t go to school. Why? Because they send them to the forest to pick up the wood. They get in danger, they don’t receive education. So one of the biggest issues we are going to be facing that we can make a huge difference in ending hunger and poverty and empowering women around the world is investing in clean cook stoves to every single family around the world. That women are the ones carrying the boarding of feeding those families. This is the ways we can be telling stories to change the world, but really making it happen with boots on the ground.
Laysha Ward: Thank you very much. In fact, we unfortunately have run out of time. We have to wrap. But I’m going to squeeze in one more question because it I think is really important to share with this incredibly connected community, which is on hope and optimism. We want to end on hope and optimism and activation. So from your perspective, how can we continue to inspire this community to really move from, I’d like to help to actually helping. What are some words of wisdom that you would share and provide about how we can use our gifts, our talents, and our treasures to make a difference in our communities?
José Andrés: Please wrap up. Please wrap up. This is popping up quickly. Listen, I think that you are already here listening to leaders of the community, people that you can be inspired by. I think that’s one amazing step, but I think it’s time to start putting the boots on the ground. It’s time that we stop clapping so much and start making things happen is the moment that we need to start really building longer tables where everybody is welcome. That what is good for your family must be good for the other family. That we understand that we need to give the dignity that we want to receive, that we need to give the empathy that we want to receive, and that if we respect each other and we stop clapping so much every time somebody gives a speech, but we make sure that the speech is followed with actions on the ground, that’s the way we can have a chance to start making real change. Biggest speeches at the United Nations for the last 60 years has not end hunger and poverty. Actually, it seems that hunger and poverty keeps growing. We need to make sure that we make our leaders in a good way, accountable of their promises. Promises need to follow action. Action with boots on the ground. They show real success altogether. We can do this. We all should be part of the solution.
Laysha Ward: Thank you very much applies to not only our words, but to our actions. Thank you. Thank you.
Best of Women Amplified | Juggling Team Engagement & Balance | T.A.G.Q.
Dec 31, 2023
This episode originally aired in June of 2023. We’re closing out the year by highlighting the best episodes of 2023. We hope you’re enjoying some much-needed down time!
The Women Amplified listener featured in this episode of “That’s a Good Question” is leading a remote business unit with ambitious goals, a steep climb ahead, and limited resources.
She’s struggling with the tricky juggling act of keeping her team engaged — while avoiding the balance and burnout conundrum — and without compromising her hands-off leadership style.
Through active problem solving, practical advice and shared experiences, our host Celeste Headlee and guest expert Brooke Bass of Liberty Mutual team up to help. Our listener will gain actionable tips and strategies to identify the right priorities to focus on, work “smarter” but not “harder,” and ultimately create a balance that allows her team to shine with autonomy and freedom.
Are you struggling with an issue at work — or at home? Submit your question here and we’ll try our best to help on an upcoming episode of “That’s A Good Question!”
Brooke Bass
Brooke Bass is the senior vice president and manager, property claims for Global Retail Markets US. She leads a department of 2,400 professionals that handle personal and small commercial property claims in the US and provide customers peace of mind when they need it most. Bass began her career with Liberty Mutual Insurance in 2004 as a consultant in corporate strategy & research (CS&R), where she worked on engagements for all SBUs. Prior to her current position, which is based in Boston, she was VP & manager of corporate strategy & research, and prior to that assistant vice president and assistant claims product manager for personal markets property claims. Bass holds a BS in environmental engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and an MBA from the Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth College. She obtained her CPCU designation in 2007.
Celeste Headlee
Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Join us for a groundbreaking virtual gathering this March 14th at the very first National Conference for Women. Enjoy powerhouse speakers, digital networking opportunities, and more — no travel required. Get your ticket today!
Best of Women Amplified | Power of Our Words and Actions
Dec 26, 2023
This episode originally aired in January of 2023. We’re closing out the year by highlighting the best episodes of 2023. We hope you’re enjoying some much-needed down time!
This episode features an extraordinary conversation between award-winning author Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie (Americanah, Notes on Grief) and Target strategic advisor Laysha Ward.
Spoken or written, words are a powerful vehicle to share knowledge, offer perspectives and influence others. They can be truths, facts, or alternatively, they can perpetuate negative thoughts, stereotypes, even fake news.
Recorded at the December 2022 Massachusetts Conference for Women, these two women explore Chimamanda’s journey to offer perspective around the power of words, acknowledging differences, and being fully inclusive. Learn how to avoid rushing to judgment and to truly understand opinions — even those that strongly differ from your own.
Our Guest: Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie is an award-winning author born in Enugu, Nigeria. She graduated summa cum laude from Eastern Connecticut State University with a degree in communication and political science. She has a master’s degree in African studies from Yale University, and in creative writing from Johns Hopkins University. She was awarded a Hodder fellowship at Princeton University and a fellowship at the Radcliffe Institute of Harvard University. She received a MacArthur Fellowship, popularly known as the “genius grant.” She has received honorary doctorate degrees from 15 prestigious universities and colleges. Adichie’s work has been translated into over thirty languages. Her first novel, Purple Hibiscus, won the Commonwealth Writers’ Prize, and her second novel, Half of a Yellow Sun, won the Orange Prize. Her novel Americanah won the US National Book Critics Circle Award, and was named one of The New York Times Top Ten Best Books of 2013. She has delivered two landmark TED talks: The Danger of A Single Story and We Should All Be Feminists, which started a worldwide conversation about feminism. Her most recent work, Notes On Grief, an essay about losing her father, was published in 2021. She was named one of TIME Magazine’s 100 Most Influential People in the World in 2015. In 2017, Fortune Magazine named her one of the World’s 50 Greatest Leaders. Adichie divides her time between the United States and Nigeria, where she leads an annual creative writing workshop.
Guest Host: Laysha Ward
Laysha Ward is an accomplished C-suite executive with thirty years of leadership experience at Target. In 2017, Ward was named executive vice president, chief external engagement officer, overseeing Target’s enterprise-wide approach to engage and deepen relationships with cross-sector stakeholders to drive positive business and community impact. In 1991, Ward began her career with Target as a member of the store sales and management team of Marshall Fields in Chicago. In 2000, she was named director of community relations and promoted to vice president of community relations and Target Foundation in 2003. In 2008, President Bush nominated, and the U.S. Senate confirmed Ward would serve on the board of directors of the Corporation for National and Community Service, the nation’s largest grantmaker for volunteering and service, which she continued to serve as board chair under the Obama Administration. Later that year, she was promoted to president of community relations and the Target Foundation. She serves on the Aspen Institute Latinos and Society Advisory Board and the Stanford Center for Longevity Advisory Council, is a member of the Executive Leadership Council, the Economic Clubs of New York and Chicago, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, The Links, and serves on the boards of Greater MSP, the Minnesota Orchestra, and the Northside Achievement Zone, as well as United Airlines and Denny’s Corporation for-profit board of directors. She received a bachelor’s degree from Indiana University, master’s degree from the University of Chicago, and an honorary Doctorate of Laws from the University of Minnesota’s Humphrey School of Public Affairs. She and her husband, Bill, reside in Minneapolis, MN.
Women Amplified Host: Celeste Headlee
Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
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Episode Transcript
Laysha Ward: Chimamanda, it’s such a gift to have you here today. You know, I share your passion for storytelling and the power of words. Now I often say that when we share our stories, when we speak our truth, we learn to celebrate our dimensions of difference and the things that we have in common. What can we do to encourage more people, especially women, to share their stories, our stories?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: So you know, we know from statistics that women read men and women and men read men. I think one of the things we need to do is get, try and get everyone to read women’s stories. So push women’s stories, talk about women’s stories, but also tell women that it’s okay to tell their stories. I think there’s a lot about the way that women are socialized that they sometimes think they shouldn’t occupy so much space. They shouldn’t talk too much about themselves. They should sort of keep themselves back. And and so I think there’s a kind of, that we need to find ways to make it ordinary and normal for women to tell their stories. I think that women’s stories are undertold and under read and underappreciated. And I sometimes think that maybe many of the problems we have would be, and this is maybe wishful thinking, but that many of the problems we have would be if not eliminated, reduced if more people read women’s stories.
Laysha Ward: How do you practice the kind of listening that drives true understanding? Yes, we’ve talked about needing to read more and having it be a broad variety of our stories, but how do we ensure that people are actually listening to the stories as we want them to be delivered and, and taken in?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: I think maybe I can, I can speak for myself, which is silence when I really, I think it’s so important to be silent when someone else is talking. And I’ve, I’ve found that it’s quite difficult for a lot of people to do. So people are very, very quick to want to sort of, and it’s, you know, it’s very sweet. It’s well-meaning. People want to give their opinion, but often I find that they’re not really listening. What they’re waiting for is for whoever is speaking to stop so that they can say something , right? And, and so for me it’s, it’s, it’s really important to have a kind of, you know, kind of considered silence. When people are talking to me, I’m quiet as I’m listening, like I just, I’m completely quiet and, you know, I want to hear what they’re saying before I can actually say something.
And so I’m not thinking about what I’m going to say, I’m thinking about what they are saying, and it kind of seems almost self-evident and obvious. But, but it’s, I think it’s difficult for a number of people. So I would say we need to practice what I would call a kind of a kind of present silence when people are speaking and even when we read, you know, life is now so quick. You know, time is in such short supply for so many people that even reading is something we do without that kind of considered silence. People read fast and often miss things. And and it’s, it’s kind of a pet peeve of mine when someone, you know, I have someone read something and then I I I’m talking to them and I realize, wait, did you not even read that part?
Laysha Ward: You know, I’ve certainly experienced that as well. I love how you frame it up by being silent and being comfortable in that silence, I think is something that’s difficult for many of us. Certainly difficult for me, and active listening requires active silence. Really appreciate that perspective. So, following up on that from another standpoint, how do you respond in the moment when it’s clear that someone isn’t listening to you?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Oh, it depends on the time of the month.
Laysha Ward: Say more about that.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: So if I’m, if I’m not in a good place, I respond by using very sharp language. If I’m in a better place, you know, I say things like, actually my family and I have a joke, which we call the crocodile joke, right? And that’s because when I’m talking to members of my family, my husband, my siblings, and sometimes also my very close friends, when I sense that they’re not listening to me, I say something and I include the word crocodile because that’s just the most absurd thing, right? And if they then turn and they’re like, wait, what crocodile, then I know they’re listening Crocodile
Laysha Ward: What? Crocodile. So they’re, I’m, I’m about to cry crocodile tears because you made me laugh so hard.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: So I do the crocodile thing because I’m trying to, you know, trip them up. Are you really listening to me? So I’m sort of talking about, I don’t know some, some, I don’t know, government policy, , and I feel like they’re not listening. Then I say, and then the crocodile came out.
Laysha Ward: I’m going to use that. When the crocodile came out, I, it’s definitely something I’m gonna pick up on after our conversation. You know, communication is a two-way street. It requires patience and discipline and, and definitely listening so that we know that we’re actually understanding, truly understanding what someone is trying to share with us. And I think when we practice this sort of patience and discipline we can gain a deeper understanding of one another. And you’ve also just introduced some humor into the conversation, which I think is always helpful when we are trying to communicate with people as well.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Yes, absolutely. I think humor is, I think humor is an essential part of being human, you know, and it’s something that we all have in common. It cuts across cultures, cuts across, you know, we all laugh, but I also think you know, just, just to sort of add to what you said that we, the listener needs to make an effort, but I think the speaker also needs to make an effort. I think, you know, I think the speaker has a responsibility to be clear, to be engaging as much as possible. And so when, when people are not listening to me, my first thought is, alright, you’re just not listening to me. My second thought is maybe I’m not telling the story in the best way. You know, maybe I’m kind of boring , right? So then you, you need to sort of think about how you’re telling your story. Yes. Because you do have a responsibility to tell the story in the best possible way.
Laysha Ward: Oh, I love that too. There’s a shared accountability, both in how you’re sharing the information as well as how one is listening. I often talk about the importance of listening to learn and understand versus just listening to win or fix. But, but you are going even deeper and talking about this idea of shared accountability in that communication, which I think is incredibly powerful. So thank you for that.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: I really like that listening to learn and fix. I would argue that there’s a gendered component there, but maybe we shouldn’t talk about that. No.
Laysha Ward: Well, well, let’s, let’s build on that then. Let’s talk about the gender component in that. What would you, what would you add to that conversation?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: I think it just seems to me that men are more likely to kind of want to fix things and not in the end not really hearing what’s being said. And that may be because I think, and again, obviously we’re, we’re generalizing because they’re always exceptions, but I think if, if I were to suggest to men ways in in which they could improve their listening, one of the things I would say is don’t think about fixing it for now, ,
Laysha Ward: We can come back to that, but to sort of focus initially on listening to learn and understand in service of a future solution.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Mm-Hmm. . Well, I think, I think really in general listening should be about that, you know, that that should be the goal that we want to understand really and hopefully learn of, of course. But, but we need to understand, I mean, I think that before you can agree or disagree with somebody, you have to actually understand what they are saying. And I, I sometimes feel that what’s happening today sort of in this sort of wall that we live in, where social media is such a, a central part of the way that we have public conversations is that often people actually haven’t heard what’s being said, right? They actually haven’t understood what’s being
Laysha Ward: Said, or they only see one part of the story, perhaps using your words, a single story, a story that’s being sort of crafted for that particular platform.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Hmm. And I, and I think, you know, that I’ve talked often about the reason I think a single story is dangerous is that it’s not complete, right? And you, you can’t, you can’t if you’re making a decision based on, on incomplete information, then that decision in itself just becomes fundamentally flawed.
Laysha Ward: Absolutely. That applies in our professional lives as well as our personal lives. And so that’s a really important point to get the full story, which is often complex and layered
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: More difficult. It’s more diffi. I think single stories are easier.
Laysha Ward: Hmm. Absolutely. You’ve talked about the importance of using the BS or bullshit detector on yourself as well as on others. So tell us more about how we can apply this to our day-to-day interactions with colleagues and others.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: well, maybe with colleagues, maybe we shouldn’t, maybe we should find a more colleague friendly expression. Maybe bullshit detector won’t work, but
Laysha Ward: . But, but, but it is authentic and real and to the point. So for now, until we rebrand it, let’s just go with the BS detector and talk about ways that we can apply it in our day-to-day interactions.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: You know what I think, I think fundamentally my my case for having a, a good BS detector is really about wanting and, and feeling that we must insist on authenticity and truth and realness. So I, I think it really just means if you feel that someone is bullshitting you to just say, so, I do that a lot. Sometimes it’s uncomfortable, you know, someone says to me, oh, I love your books. And I’m thinking, actually, you haven’t read them often, I can tell, you know, and I’m like, you know, thank you for your love, but you haven’t read them. And then I say, I would suggest that you read first. You know, I, I suggest a book for them to read. And I think it just makes for, I think it makes for a more I don’t know, a more, when we’re not bullshitting one another, then I think that we just live in a way that is more, and I don’t want to sound sort of very morally superior, but I think we live in a way that is more authentic.
And I think it’s so important. It’s, it’s just so in some ways that you’re cutting away the crap, you know? And, and I think life, life is complicated and life is difficult enough. We really don’t need someone just bullshitting us. And, and so really, I would say find ways to name it. And people have different styles, so it doesn’t have to be my direct way of saying, look, that’s bullshit. It could be . I don’t know. People find their ways of communicating, but I think as long as you let the person know, and I think in general, people who are well-meaning sometimes appreciate it because then they feel that they can be more authentic themselves, right? So the person who says, oh, I loved your books, and I’m like, mm-hmm. You haven’t read any, suddenly then feels more comfortable to say, actually, I don’t really read a lot, but I’ve listened to your talks. You know, that’s happened quite a bit. So I think in some ways you also let people not feel the pressure to be something that they’re not.
Laysha Ward: I think you’re trying to create a safe space to be honest and build a trusted relationship and a trusting learning environment. And instead of just calling people out for the sake of calling people out, you’re actually welcoming them in, in a way that ideally will make them better and you better in a way that, you know, isn’t a shame and blame. It’s really about, you know, opening up a more trusted environment to have real talk.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: I really love that. I love the idea of welcoming them in. I really love that. Yes.
Laysha Ward: So, girl, this is so helpful. I’m sure I’m going to be able to apply it. And you know, we have another practical question that we received from the audience. And she says, my male boss talks a lot about celebrating and championing women. For some reason, though, it actually comes across as patronizing. So she’s wondering if she should give in feedback, and if so, what should she say? Which is such a great question.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Hmm. It is. See, in some ways I think it’s similar to, to kind of what I talked about that, and this happens a lot, usually around International Women’s Day when people just pop up and start talking about how women should be adored and celebrated, and it’s, yeah. And sometimes I, I just, I’m very close to being nauseated, but that, that’s I, I think how to do that, I mean, obviously it would depend on what sort of person her boss is but whether I think it’s a useful thing to give feedback about that. Yes, I think so, because I, I do also feel very strongly that most of the time when people, when men say things that women find condescending or patronizing or offensive, most of the time men don’t actually even know that it’s offensive or why it’s offensive, you know? I think maybe what I would say is to ask him what he means, you know, so we should celebrate and champion women. What does that mean? Does it mean that you, are you comfortable with having a woman be your superior? If women are to be celebrated and champion, there’s something about it that kind of suggests the power difference because, you know, you celebrate and champion people who are kind of beneath you in a way, or maybe that’s not how he means it, but I, but I would say ask him, you know, so just say to him, give me three examples of how, what you mean by championing women.
Laysha Ward: Yeah. I love that you’re talking.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: And then if he, and if, and if he gave the examples, then she could then say, well, can you see how in this second example, it’s actually really condescending? Yeah, I think I’m a believe. Yeah. Sorry, go
Laysha Ward: On. I’m just gonna say, I think you’re asking or suggesting rather that she asks clarifying questions. Assume positive intent and ask a clarifying question that really allow her boss to be more clear in what it is that he means by celebrating and championing women so that they can have a more honest and direct conversation.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: And to do it. And to start off, you know, start off assuming that he doesn’t mean harm. He might, and if he does, you will find out as the conversation progresses, . But, you know, just I think saying to him, and then again, I think, you know, this is why I believe so much in stories, and often I say to people, let’s go to story. So right, somebody says something and people start to argue, and I’m thinking, all right, let’s use examples. Let’s, let’s use a story. Because often it’s so much more clarifying. And so the examples that he gives her might make her see that actually he doesn’t really mean it in a way that’s condescending, or it might make her see that he’s so bloody patronizing. And then she can sort of call him out and say, you know what? This is just not okay. Yeah,
Laysha Ward: Exactly. You know, it’s to, to your point, assume positive intent, and then you’ll be able to ascertain if it’s perhaps an unconscious bias or a conscious bias. But, but at least you’ll know where to begin the dialogue with better information. Great, great, great point. So thank you for that. Building on that, there’s a related question that another audience member submitted. She says, I support gender equality, but don’t call myself a feminist because it feels too much of a statement. How can I be a feminist without the negative labels? There’s a lot to unpack in that question, so I would be curious to hear what you would say.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Well, I would say to her, you’re a feminist. Own it, you know, own it. And when I started talking about feminism, I knew, of course that feminism is such a contested ward, especially in the West, where it has a long history. And, you know, feminists are often seen as, as you know, women who hate men or who don’t shave or that kind of thing. And, and, and for me, I, I then kind of had this need desire to kind of reclaim the ward that in the dictionary, it’s, it’s, it’s simple. It’s the belief that men and women should have equal political, social, economic rates. And if you believe that, then you’re a feminist. And, you know, sometimes I worry that women are often too careful. I mean, I suppose the question I would ask is, why is it too much of a statement?
I mean, what is it that you are afraid of? Yeah. you know, it’s easy to maybe think, I don’t want to alienate men by calling myself a feminist, because there’s some men who would be alienated by that. And I think to that, I would say a man who’s alienated by the idea of feminism is the kind of man you don’t want to be with. So, you know, own it. And, and the reason I think it’s also important is that we need a ward around which to rally. So if women are saying, I’m not a feminist, but I really believe in everything that feminism stands for, then we can’t even advocate for things because we cannot then say we’re, we have this word feminism, and these are the goals that that feminism has, and we want to pursue them. If we don’t have the language, if we don’t have the word to to describe something, then we can’t really advocate for that thing.
Laysha Ward: I love this notion of claiming it and naming it and putting words around it in order to embrace it in a way that allows us ultimately to take steps towards fulfilling it. And so the way that you talk about and are framing a response around feminism is often how I think about racism, which for many is difficult to talk about as well. So really appreciate the way that you’ve helped us think about that. And I’m definitely gonna be thinking through how I use it and hope that our audience finds that equally as valuable. I appre appreciate the vulnerability in the next question from one of our audience members as well. And she says, my company has employee resource groups for women of color, people with disabilities, l GT q plus as a white woman, I wanna support my peers, but I don’t wanna do the wrong thing. What’s the best way to navigate this?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Who? I don’t know, . .
Laysha Ward: Come on, girl. You can say something. You’ve, I know you’ve got something .
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: I think , see this is I really, actually really appreciate that question because I think it comes from a place of it comes from a place that I really admire and respect wanting to do better, wanting to do well, and, and saying I don’t know how. Right. Which I, it would be lovely if, if, if we all could do that. I think maybe the suggestion I would make would be to ask. So, so in other words, so I mean, I can’t really, I don’t think I can really talk with much I think I can talk about race with more sort of confidence because of personal experience, and I can talk about disability and and sexual orientation and, and gender identity and all of those things. So, so for me with race, if a, if a white woman says to me, I want to be supportive of anti-racism movements, and I don’t know how usually I say, well start by reading. And I say that because I think it’s important to, to, to understand what it is that you are, you are advocating for, right? And when I say start by reading, I mean just understand what it, what it has meant and what it continues to mean to be a black person in the United States. And, and I think also sort of talk to black people. You, I have friends who are so well-meaning and so fierce, and they’re sometimes making arguments where I’m thinking, I’m the black person and I don’t even agree with you on this . Right? Like, I just think you’re wrong. Right? Right. But, but it’s well-meaning. And they’re just sort of like, yo, yo, we’re fighting racism. And I’m just sitting there thinking, mm. So, so yeah, I would say talk to black people. And it also is very useful to sort of step back in certain places and let black people speak. There are times when I say that the white friend needs to say certain things. There are things that white people can get away with saying in this country that black people cannot. And so in those cases, I think if, if, so, I have a joke with a white friend of mine who sometimes we’re talking about race, and, and I say to her, well, all right, now you need to talk because these people will not listen to me. You need to talk now. You know, you need to use your white privilege for good. But there are other times when I think well meaning white people, that there is sometimes the risk of kind of usurping the conversation, taking it over, making it about sort of the white goodness. And I, I don’t think that’s a very useful thing. So, so I’m not sure, yeah, I’ve kind of rambled a bit, but I would say, you know, talk to people, talk to black people. And also I would say learn like, and, and I don’t mean learn, you know, young people now say things like, go and educate yourself. And I don’t even know what they mean, but , but I can tell you what I mean by learning, which is read history. You know, I would say I could ma maybe recommend three books because I think it’s important to have context. And I even speak for myself because when I came to the us now almost, I don’t know, 25 years ago to go to college, I didn’t really understand race in America because I was Nigerian. And in Nigeria, we do not have race as an identity. Yes. Do it different. Yeah. And so I came from a place where my identity was IK and Catholic, so, you know, ethnicity and, and religion. And then I came here and suddenly I had this thing where I was the black girl. Cause I was in Connecticut, which was, you know, not terribly black . And so I, I had to learn and I learned by reading, and then suddenly I understood things. So suddenly I understood, oh, so that’s what that what, what a Milan joke was about. And I understood, oh, so that’s why in certain contexts, fried chicken is offensive. I did not understand that first. And so that’s why I say it’s really important to read, you know, just really read before you go off, you know, sort of on the rallies to do the rah rah rah or fighting racism thing.
Laysha Ward: Well, thank you for that. No, it, it requires building empathy and understanding and, and then knowing what to do with it, I think gets at your point around sometimes you need to be the messenger. And other times that isn’t the appropriate role for you to play. So, you know, to the question ask, you know, being a great ally, which is what she’s trying to be, is, is multi-layered and isn’t a one size fits all sort of journey. But, but educating oneself, building empathy, trying to sort of make understanding a part of your daily journey allows you, I think ultimately to apply what you’ve learned in ways that help us all figure out what our roles are in those conversations and in the actions that pursue as a result of it. I, I just think we can’t let our fear of saying or doing the wrong thing stop us from doing anything at all, which is often what happens.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Bravo, I think you’ve just, I just think that’s perfectly said. And, and you know, you said something about layered, and I, I, and I think it’s important also to be comfortable with the idea that it’s not going to be simple or it, it is layered, it is complex and, and we shouldn’t expect it to be otherwise, because how can you deal with I think for example, that having learned American history, that really the basis of this country is anti-black racism. I, I believe that, and I, and I can, I can make the case for it, right? And it’s such a complicated thing that’s so deeply rooted, so that in talking about it and trying to combat it, it cannot be easy. It’s not an easy thing. And so I really love this idea. And you put it so well, we shouldn’t be so terrified of saying the wrong thing that we don’t say anything at all, because it is likely that we will say the wrong thing. Yeah. But I think what, what’s pos what, what’s important is, you know, are we learning? Are we when we say that wrong thing and we ask questions, do we then, you know, hear what’s been said? And I think that the way that public sort of conversations happen now, people are so scared of, of saying the wrong thing, that they just stay silent. And it worries me that that real movements for change are now sort of almost being sabotaged by people’s fear. Yeah,
Laysha Ward: I would, you shouldn’t be, I would agree with that. As we discussed earlier, sometimes there is a moment to be silent, but there are also times when we need to have our voices heard. And, you know, a situation we all face from time to time that you and I have just started to talk about has to do with missteps in our communication. So how do you recover when you say the wrong thing?
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Well, by saying, sorry. Yeah.
Laysha Ward: , yes. Amen to that. I think
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: That, I think, I think there’s such power in a genuine apology. But I also think that even the idea of apologies have become just, you know, people just think, you, you, there’s, there’s kind of a cynicism now where people just sort of say, oh, I’m a apologizing. But I mean, really genuine apology. But also I think when you, when I can speak for myself, for example when I’ve said things that I realize were wrong, , often I’ve realized because somebody has made me see that they’re wrong. And and by the way, I have to tell you, I’ve had to practice this because my, you know, you need to practice it, but there’s a kind of grace in saying thank you to the person who’s made you see that you were wrong. Right. which means a kind of willingness to accept that I don’t know everything, right? I think I know a lot , but I don’t think I know everything. . and, and I think, you know, there’s a kind of again, it sometimes feels to me that in the end it’s about intent. Like what’s the point, right? I, I ask this a lot about many things. What’s the point of having conversations? What’s the point of talking about social justice? You know, I say to myself, what’s the point of talking about racism, feminism, homophobia, what’s the point? Right? And of course, the point is to contribute, to ending it, ending these things that we think are wrong. And if that is the case, then in having conversations, the intent is to get somebody to understand you and to be understood by that person. And so when I say something that I think is wrong, I, my thinking is, well, what’s the point? So what I’ve said is getting in the way of achieving my point, right? Which means that I need to backtrack, you know, apologize, figure out what the real thing is, what the right thing is. And I think in general, we should maybe start by just, I mean, I, and this is the thing for me, being a fiction writer, I kind of I, I enjoy, I, I celebrate, I luxate in the fact that we are not perfect. Yes, yes. And we’re not, I mean, people who read a lot of fiction know this, we’re human, we’re not perfect. And so I think just starting with that as premise, it just feels to me that a lot will be better. When I teach fiction, I usually start by telling my students, we’re going to go around and you’re going to tell me two horrible things you’ve done. And then at some point, sometimes it gets really, you know, interesting. And then I say, all right, tell us two horrible things that a friend of yours has done if you don’t want to talk about yourself. But it’s really . It’s really about starting off with our flawed ness as premise.
Laysha Ward: I like to say we are perfectly imperfect. And you know, I think it’s really important as we’ve been discussing to know and remember that we’re all human and make mistakes, but that we can learn from those mistakes. I think that certainly is the key takeaway. Thank you so much, Chimamandamanda. I could talk to you for hours.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Thank you, Laysha. You’ve been fantastic.
Laysha Ward: Incredibly fortunate to have had this time with you, and I know that I’ve personally benefited from it and know that our community here has as well from your stories and your wisdom. And I hope that we have the opportunity to reconnect in the future. Cause it’s certainly been a gift.
Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie: Thank you, Laysha. Thank you. And I really do hope that we have a chance to, I hope our paths will cross
This episode highlights the resilience and courage of an extraordinary woman: Shoshana Johnson, the first Black female prisoner of war in U.S. military history and a Purple Heart recipient. Johnson has proven her strength in the face of adversity, and now she shares her experiences as an author and speaker.
In a heartfelt discussion with award-winning journalist and author Celeste Headlee, we delve into Shoshana’s journey of survival, her advocacy for veterans, and her efforts to support women in the military.
Excerpt from I’m Still Standing: From Captive U.S. Soldier to Free Citizen – My Journey Home:
“You will have the operation tomorrow”, the doctor said. “Do not eat until I come for you again for the surgery”, he instructed, and he left. I was nervous about having surgery, but my legs weren’t getting any better. After four days, I was still losing blood, still bleeding through the bandages, and my wounds looked raw and horrible.
Pain was my constant companion. I figured anything they could do to help the wounds would be better than doing nothing. I laid down that night not sure if I could sleep, nervous about the surgery. A couple of hours later, my cell door opened. The light from the hallway suddenly spilled into the small room, blinding me for several moments. The doctor, the nurse, and a guard were there. They stood me up and blindfolded me using a sleep mask. They didn’t bother tying my hands this time.
They shuffled me down the hall of the prison and I could hear them getting others out of their cell. I figured it was Hudson and Hernandez, the others who had been wounded. The doctor hadn’t told me we would all be going. But I was glad not to be the only one. They took us all outside, propping me up all the way. For a few brief moments, I was outside. The night air seemed crisp and refreshing after so much time in the confines of my cell.
After a couple of seconds, I smelled cordite from all the automatic gunfire I had been hearing and suddenly realized how close to the fighting we must have been. I smelled fire, stuff burning, and the general rot that comes from too many smells mixed together. They quickly hustled us into the back of a truck and we took off into the night. We all jostled around in the back as we careened through the streets, automatic weapons fire and the thump of small explosions going off all around us.
Occasionally I heard a high scream and then a sudden heavy boom. That could only mean a U.S. bomb. The Iraqis didn’t have stuff like that. It was impossible to figure out where it was coming from as we turned and swerved down the streets.
It was horrible being blindfolded, not knowing where we were going, not able to see where the firing was coming from. Much of it was close. I knew the driver was going fast as to avoid being a target. As nervous as I was about the surgery and about getting hit by some random bullet, it felt good to know that Americans were close. I rode in the truck silently rooting for my side to kick some righteous ass.
Shoshana Johnson
Shoshana Nyree Johnson was born in the Republic of Panama. She attended the University of Texas at El Paso, and later joined the U.S. Army in 1998. In February 2003, Johnson received orders to deploy to Iraq as a Food Service Specialist, (92G) with the 507th Maintenance Company, 5/52 Battalion 11th Brigade. On March 23, Johnson was in a convoy that was ambushed in the city of an-Nasiriyah. Johnson received a bullet wound to her ankle. She and 5 others were captured and taken Prisoners of War. House raids conducted by U.S. Marines in the city of Samarra, Iraq, resulted in the successful rescue of seven POWs on April 13. Later, Johnson came back to a heroes welcome in the U.S. with a cheering crowd of over 3,000 people. Specialist Johnson retired from the Army on an Honorable Discharge on December 12, 2003. Johnson’s awards and decorations include the U.S. Army Service Ribbon, Army Commendation Ribbon, National Defense Ribbon, Good Conduct Medal, Bronze Star Medal, Purple Heart Medal, and the Prisoner of War Medal. U.S. Army officials identified Johnson as the first female POW of Operation Iraqi Freedom, and the first black female POW in US war history. Johnson was awarded the Order of Manuel Amador Guerrero by her native country of Panama, it’s the highest honor. Johnson has penned a memoir about her experience entitled I’m Still Standing: From Captured Soldier to Free Citizen-My Journey Home. The biography was nominated for a NAACP Image Award and is a national bestseller.
Celeste Headlee
Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
How to Be Taken Seriously | That’s a Good Question
Oct 26, 2023
PROBLEM: How do I manage being a young woman in a director level role? I find that it can be challenging in getting folks to take me seriously. I run a department of three offices with multiple full-time staff and oversee a critical area of compliance. While I don’t want to completely change how I engage with others, or how I present myself, I’d like to know if there are things I can do differently to minimize this issue.
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Age bias impacts employees at all stages in their career — and research shows that it’s hitting young workers just as much as their older counterparts. Many younger employees find it challenging to get others to take them seriously.
Through active problem solving, practical advice and shared experiences, we will explore strategies to boost your presence, increase your influence, and communicate with confidence. Learn how to garner the respect you deserve while remaining your authentic self.
Susan Poser
Susan Poser brings more than 25 years of experience in a variety of roles from marketing, finance, value selling, operations and program management. As VP of Culture & Engagement for Oracle’s North America Infrastructure Sales, Susan is responsible for developing and executing employee lifecycle programs including hiring and onboarding, to career growth and employee experiences, with the end result being attraction, retention and loyalty for the 5,000 person organization. Susan is an executive sponsor for Oracle Women Leaders in San Diego and Oracle Professional Asian Leaders, globally. In addition, Susan serves as the Board Chair for Athena, a non-profit business league focused on advancing one million women leading in STEM by 2030.
Celeste Headlee
Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Don’t miss the first-ever National Conference for Women! Featuring Margaret Atwood, Michelle Yeoh, breakout sessions, networking, career services, and more. Registration for the virtual March 14th event is now open, and early bird pricing is in effect through November 11th. Learn more and register today.
Turn Every Hour into a “Happier Hour”
Oct 19, 2023
In today’s fast-paced world, time often feels like our scarcest resource.
UCLA Professor Cassie Holmes, author of the groundbreaking book Happier Hour, offers a revolutionary approach to reclaiming time by sharing research-backed strategies to turn every hour into a “happier hour.”
In this episode, discover how to allocate your time to bring true fulfillment, not just a sense of busyness.
Learn actionable steps to sidestep distractions, capture moments of joy and purposefully design your schedule. Holmes’s practical toolkit will empower you to view your life without regret, and to embrace a lifestyle where time becomes your alley, not your enemy.
Cassie Holmes
Cassie Holmes is an award-winning professor at the UCLA Anderson School of Management and an expert on time and happiness. Holmes’ research examines how focusing on time (rather than money) increases happiness, how the meaning of happiness changes over the course of one’s lifetime, and how much happiness people enjoy from extraordinary versus ordinary experiences. Holmes’ bestselling book Happier Hour: How to Beat Distraction, Expand Your Time, and Focus on What Matters Most is a bright, relatable guide to recharging and the ultimate antidote to overscheduling. Holmes’ research has been published in such top-tier academic journals as Psychological Science and the Journal of Consumer Research. Popular accounts of her work have been featured on NPR and appeared in The Economist, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, the Financial Times, Scientific American and the Boston Globe. Her research on “giving time” was featured in New York Times Magazine’s “32 Innovations that Will Change Your Tomorrow.” Poets & Quants called her one of the Best 40 Business Professors Under 40, and received the Early Career Award for her distinguished scholarly contributions to her field from both the Association of Consumer Research and the Society of Consumer Psychology. Holmes was a tenured faculty member and award-winning teacher at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. She has a PhD from Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business, and a BA from Columbia.
Celeste Headlee
Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Navigating a Job Search and Career Transition | That’s a Good Question
Sep 28, 2023
Over the last several years, professionals have reprioritized what’s important and taken a different approach to their careers. But the process to figure out what’s right and how to make a strategic move can be daunting.
In this episode of That’s a Good Question, we help our listener navigate the transition from entrepreneur into a corporate career. Joining us to help is guest expert Leena Shah, global program leader of global drug development at Bristol Myers Squibb. Through active problem solving, practical advice and shared experiences, we will explore strategies to best approach a job search, identify the right role and ways to best communicate your value.
Walk away with clarity and be empowered to regain control so you can take a strategic approach for making your next move.
Leena Shah, Pharm. D.
Leena Shah, Pharm. D., is global program leader, global drug development at Bristol Myers Squibb. Shah oversees a matrix team and develops and executes a strategic integrated development plan in partnership with cross-functional leaders for an immunology asset across multiple indications. In this role, Shah serves as an integrated, end-to-end leader from drug development to commercialization. Shah joined Bristol Myers Squibb in 2014 with extensive drug development experience, most having worked in leadership roles at Roche for over 13 years, across the drug development continuum including early & late research & development, medical affairs and business development. At Bristol Myers Squibb, she has led diverse, large teams across clinical operations, worldwide medical and commercialization, to develop strategies that informed and drove investment decisions. She is most notably recognized for her expertise in drug development, strategic thinking, innovative approaches, and inclusive leadership. Shah completed the Rutgers Post-Doctoral Fellowship Program in clinical research and earned her BS and Doctor of Pharmacy from Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey.
Celeste Headlee
Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Join Brené Brown, Dame Jacinda Ardern, Dr. Joy Boulamwini, Jennifer Siebel Newsom, and more in Santa Clara, CA! Registration for the February 29 California Conference for Women is now open, and early bird pricing is in effect through October 15th. To learn more and get your tickets, visit CAConferenceForWomen.org.
Improv Your Work: Unlocking Creativity and Collaboration
Sep 21, 2023
In today’s frenetic workplace, where technology and packed schedules often eclipse human connection, we risk overlooking the vital role of interpersonal skills in creating thriving workplaces.
In this episode of Women Amplified, Nicole Cohen, best-selling author of Improv at Work: What the Business World Can Learn from Improvisational Comedy, helps us integrate the rules of improvisational comedy to reinvigorate your workplace, turning it into a hub of creativity, empowerment, and even joy — much like the dynamic world of improv comedy.
Whether you’re early in your career or a seasoned leader, this episode offers invaluable insights to elevate workplace communication, collaboration, and innovation.
Nicole Cohen
Nicole Faust Cohen is an experienced business leader and lifelong student and practitioner of the performing arts. Cohen is a managing director at a global consulting company. Outside her industry work, Cohen creates and leads workshops on the topic of bringing the rules of improvisational comedy to the workplace, for the purpose of creating the most collaborative and innovative work environment possible. Cohen graduated from Northwestern University with a Bachelor of Science in Biomedical Engineering and a Theme in Fine Arts/Theatre. Today, Cohen is an International Best Selling Author with Improv at Work: What the Business World Can Learn from Improvisational Comedy. In addition to leading workshops with global leadership teams, she has also spoken on podcasts, radio programming, Northwestern Alumni Association webcast series, and at the Pennsylvania Conference for Women.
Celeste Headlee
Celeste Headlee is a communication and human nature expert, and an award-winning journalist. She is a professional speaker, and also the author of Speaking of Race: Why Everybody Needs to Talk About Racism—and How to Do It, Do Nothing, Heard Mentality, and We Need to Talk. In her twenty-year career in public radio, she has been the executive producer of On Second Thought at Georgia Public Radio, and anchored programs including Tell Me More, Talk of the Nation, All Things Considered, and Weekend Edition. She also served as cohost of the national morning news show The Takeaway from PRI and WNYC, and anchored presidential coverage in 2012 for PBS World Channel. Headlee’s TEDx talk sharing ten ways to have a better conversation has over twenty million total views to date. @CelesteHeadlee
Join us in Santa Clara, CA this February! Registration for the February 29 California Conference for Women is now open, and early bird pricing is in effect. Join Brené Brown, Dame Jacinda Ardern, Dr. Joy Buolamwini, and more! To learn more and sign up for announcements, visit CAConferenceForWomen.org.
Pearls of Wisdom with Playwright Pearl Cleage
Aug 17, 2023
This episode features a conversation with Pearl Cleage, an American playwright, novelist and poet, and Laysha Ward, the executive vice president and chief external engagement officer at Target.
Together they explore the power of truth, the responsibility of storytelling, and the praise poem, “We Speak Your Names,” which was commissioned by Oprah Winfrey in celebration of sisterhood and women.
Cleage offers wisdom, sage advice and insightful stories that will leave you energized and inspired!
Pearl Cleage
Pearl Cleage is an Atlanta based writer who is currently Distinguished Artist in Residence at the Alliance Theatre. She also serves as Atlanta’s first Poet Laureate. She is the author of more than a dozen plays, including “Blues for an Alabama Sky,” and “Flyin’ West,” and was recently awarded a Lifetime Achievement Award by the Dramatists Guild. Her most recent play, “Something Moving: A Meditation on Maynard” will open at Ford’s Theatre in Washington, D.C. in September 2023. The play will have an Atlanta production at the Alliance in 2024. She is the author of 8 novels, including the New York Times bestseller What Looks Like Crazy on an Ordinary Day, which was also an Oprah Book Club selection. Cleage was recently honored with the Paul Robeson Award by Actors’ Equity Association and the Actors’ Equity Foundation. She is co-author with her husband, writer Zaron W. Burnett, Jr., of the praise poem We Speak Your Names, and In My Granny’s Garden, a book for children. Cleage and Burnett also collaborated for ten years on the performance series “Live at Club Zebra!”
Laysha Ward
Laysha Ward is an accomplished C-suite executive with thirty years of leadership experience at Target. In 2017, Ward was named executive vice president, chief external engagement officer, overseeing Target’s enterprise-wide approach to engage and deepen relationships with cross-sector stakeholders to drive positive business and community impact. In 1991, Ward began her career with Target as a member of the store sales and management team of Marshall Fields in Chicago. In 2000, she was named director of community relations and promoted to vice president of community relations and Target Foundation in 2003. In 2008, President Bush nominated, and the U.S. Senate confirmed Ward would serve on the board of directors of the Corporation for National and Community Service, the nation’s largest grantmaker for volunteering and service, which she continued to serve as board chair under the Obama Administration. Later that year, she was promoted to president of community relations and the Target Foundation. She serves on the Aspen Institute Latinos and Society Advisory Board and the Stanford Center for Longevity Advisory Council, is a member of the Executive Leadership Council, the Economic Clubs of New York and Chicago, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, The Links, and serves on the boards of Greater MSP, the Minnesota Orchestra, and the Northside Achievement Zone, as well as United Airlines and Denny’s Corporation for-profit board of directors. She received a bachelor’s degree from Indiana University, master’s degree from the University of Chicago, and an honorary Doctorate of Laws from the University of Minnesota’s Humphrey School of Public Affairs. She and her husband, Bill, reside in Minneapolis, MN.